Gilroy, Brooklyn and the Deadly Failures of Gun Control

Yellow evidence markers are placed next to chairs at a playground in the Brownsville neighborhood in the Brooklyn borough of New York, Sunday, July 28, 2019. Police said, one man was killed and at least 11 others were injured in a shooting late Saturday night at the park. (AP Photo/Mark Lennihan)

Two festivals, two mass shootings a continent apart. You’ve probably heard about the one that took place at the Gilroy Garlic Festival yesterday. That shooting resulted in four dead and 15 injured.

The one you may not have heard about — it didn’t seem to interest the mainstream media quite as much — was another mass shooting that happened Saturday night in Brooklyn, New York at the end of something called the Old Timers Day festival.

According to the New York Times,

The 56th annual Old Timers Day in Brooklyn was winding down on Saturday, and the final R&B band of the night was leading the crowd in a rousing rendition of “Family Reunion” by the O’Jays.

The beloved, days-long community event in Brownsville was drawing to a close under a clear summer sky.

Then gunshots rang out, sending thousands running for cover.

At least two gunmen had opened fire, killing a 38-year-old man and wounding 11 people in the crossfire, the police said.

“It was pandemonium,” said Bill Blount, 42, who took cover against a wall with his 5-year-old daughter, London. “She was crying. People were screaming and running.”

Unlike the Gilroy incident, during which the shooter was shot and killed, no one has been arrested yet for the Brooklyn shooting which police believe may have been gang-related.

Both shootings occurred during long-running festivals enjoyed by thousands. Both while bands entertained the crowds. Both shooters appeared to target people at random.

Oh, and both shootings occurred in places featuring the strictest and most far-reaching gun control laws in the nation. California rates an A in the Giffords gun control scorebook. New York gets an A- (though if cities were ranked, the Big Apple would no doubt earn an A with its laws that go above and beyond New York state’s SAFE Act and other restrictions).

Think of a gun control measure that the Civilian Disarmament Industrial Complex constantly preaches we need in America on a national level in order to achieve “gun safety” and both states already have them. All of them.

“Assault weapons” ban: check
Magazine capacity limits: check
“Universal” background checks; check
Gun violence restraining orders: check
Safe storage mandates: check
Firearms purchase registration: check
‘May issue’ concealed carry licensing: check

Both festivals took place in gun-free zones. The Gilroy shooter cut his way through a fence to enter the no-guns-allowed grounds of the Garlic Festival. And like all parks and playgrounds in New York City, the location of the Old Timers Day festival was a gun-free zone as well.

Both shootings featured the use of illegally owned and/or carried firearms. In Gilroy, the shooter used an AK variant rifle made illegal by the state’s “assault weapons” laws. He’d purchased the firearm legally less than a month ago and blithely broke California law by bringing it into the state.

Brooklyn is, of course, part of New York City, a place with so few (and such expensive) city-issued handgun (let alone concealed carry) permits that the odds of the shooters legally carrying (let alone owning) the guns they used are astronomically small.

As for response time, there were plenty of police officers already at the scenes of both shootings. Before they happened. Multiple press reports say that police officers on the scene in Gilroy engaged the shooter less than a minute after he opened fire, yet he still managed to gun down 18 people before being killed.

According to CNN, “more than 100 city police officers were present when the shooting occurred.” That was in a park/playground less than one square block. And yet 12 people were shot and neither of the two shooters were apprehended. The only mystery is that no police officers were among the wounded.

And yet none of this — all of the laws, all of the cops — was able to prevent bad people from doing bad things with items they weren’t legally supposed to have.

This is what happens to a disarmed populace.

Disarmed people are told to trust their safety and security to local, state or federal authorities. Authorities who are the only ones that can be entrusted with the awesome responsibility of owning firearms. Authorities of whom there are far too few to provide any kind of meaningful protection.

The gun control industry in this country was founded on and works to achieve something they call “gun safety” (that’s the latest poll-tested, press-friendly euphemism for total civilian disarmament).

Restrictive gun laws create gun-free zones with defenseless, law-abiding victims in target-rich safe spaces for killers and other psychopaths. Laws don’t prevent crimes or tragedies like this any more than they prevented drinking during Prohibition. Which is why denying people the right to protect themselves and their families is morally bankrupt.

Would either or both of these shootings happened in places with concealed carry and minimal restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms. Maybe. If they had, maybe the killers’ fire would have been returned sooner, saving lived. Or maybe those who carried out these atrocities would have thought twice about opening fire on people who could defend themselves.

Would these situations have been any worse if armed civilians had been there (as gun-grabbers are sure to argue)? Not likely.

And yet the only responses we’re likely to hear from politicians and their media stenographers in the wake of these two very similar incidents is…they’re proof positive of the need for yet more gun control laws.

They’ll ignore the fact that oppressive gun control and gun-free zones are the common denominators in the vast majority of these shootings. This, while gun ownership in general is at record highs while overall violent crime is at historic lows.

When you’re a freedom-hating, gun-grabbing hammer, it seems, every dead body looks like a nail.

Same as it ever was.

 

 

 

 

comments

  1. avatar Timothy Toroian says:

    I heard complaints about the number of metal detectors in Gilroy. What good would they be if he cut through a fence to gain access. From all the brush I saw on T.V. would have contributed to a nasty fire if he’d decided to go in that direction. And ,you don’t stop nutty people with implement control.

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      …or simply gained an elevated vantage point well outside the perimeter overlooking the crowds, like the Vegas Route 91 Festival culprit(s) did.

      …or drove a truck through the crowds to kill/mail dozens, like the Nice, France culprit did.

      …or…
      …or…
      …or…

      Criminals hell-bent on killing will find a way every time. “Safe Zones” don’t exist.

      1. avatar California Richard says:

        Sure they do, just ask modern college students…. Then they go out in to the real world and try to turn it in to an Authoritarian Liberal Utopia….. just like college was.

        1. avatar Spudnik says:

          Please keep the T in TTAG. Gun free or not, metal detectors or not, the issue remains that an armed response can only happen after the shooting starts.

        2. avatar MarkPA says:

          @Spudnik: “. . . the issue remains that an armed response can only happen after the shooting starts.”

          This is a good point; one which leads to the wrong conclusion in most folks’ minds.

          The adage “The only thing that stops a bad man with a gun . . . ” leaves most listeners unsatisfied. That bad man with a GUN will kill at least one person, probably several, before he is stopped. Because the “good man with a gun” is not a satisfactory solution, it’s not a solution at all. We must continue the search for the “final solution”; i.e., how to get rid of guns.

          We all see through the nonsense of such thinking. We acknowledge that we won’t prevent the first victim’s death; probably not the second’s. Nevertheless, the sooner the defenders can return fire the fewer victims will die. In an imperfect world, that’s usually the best we can hope for. And so, albeit “not a satisfactory solution” it remains the best we have within our reach.

          That said, there is considerable psychological research supporting the “copy-cat” theory. If crazy mass shooters were presented with enough empirical evidence that they will be neutralized before they exceed the historical “high-water mark” in deaths, some such crazy potential shooters won’t make the attempt. To the extent that this thesis is valid we can save even the first life simply by keeping “fire extinguishers” ready at hand.

          We have the 2A, together with or federal/state structure. So long as these remain it is impossible to reduce the number of guns in lawful commerce. Crazies and criminals would be able to get guns from the existing civilian stock so long as that stock is in the tens of millions. The stock will not be reduced from 400 million to 40 million. If – by some miracle – it could be reduced to 4 million crazies and criminals would have to resort to cottage machining and smuggling. There is no hope of stopping either source.

          Moreover, the quantitatively severe threat is of foreign origin. How could we possibly imagine stopping a terrorist threat from landing a container loaded with AK-47s in any American port?

          Ultimately, we have no choice but to be kitted-up for the moment “. . . after the shooting starts.”

        3. avatar Spudnik says:

          Thank you Mark for the thoughtful and detailed response rather than the usual foam mouthed drivel that spews knee jerk from the angry and uninformed 2A advocates.

        4. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

          exactly. the “the” is off limits.

        5. avatar California Richard says:

          “Gun free or not, metal detectors or not, the issue remains that an armed response can only happen after the shooting starts.”

          That’s not an “issue”, it’s simply a fact. You might as well keep the “T” in TTAG by saying “the sky is blue” or “water is wet”. I’m not sure what you are intimating with your comment. Since you made no point, (and since I’m a knee jerk, and highly emotional reactionary) I will assume that “your truth” is: “a good guy with a gun is not the answer”. Along those lines (and I may be off base here, so please elaborate your position), if you front load your solutions to “keeping guns out of the hands of the wrong people,” and by extension keep guns out of the hands of everybody else, then there is no recourse for action when the shooting starts. Immediate armed response is the surest and only course of action when that happens. WE are OUR best 1st responders when that happens to US.

        6. avatar Ing says:

          I think his point was that it’s not a *perfect* answer and therefore also not a satisfactory one to most people. The theoretically perfect answer (MOAR gun control) is also unsatisfactory in that full control is impossible and any attempt at it is virtually guaranteed to make the problem worse.

          Neither of these answers really solves the problem. They both amount to begging the question if the question is “how do we stop these from happening,” because the truth is, neither of them can.

          As you said, and I think MarkPA would agree, the only reasonable solution we have is more armed citizens who can take care of each other and stop the threat as soon as possible when it emerges. It’s going to remain that way until our culture (or maybe human nature) changes such that people don’t *want* to shoot people en masse anymore,

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      large gatherings of people…particularly in a confined area….are tempting to these nut jobs..you should act accordingly…

    3. avatar Nigel the expat says:

      Really not helping by perpetuating the “AK variant rifle” tag line. Reports are it was an SKS…which is not an ‘AK Variant’.

      https://gunowners.org/sks-rifle-not-an-ak-variant/

  2. avatar Geoff WWJWD - "What would John Wick do?" PR says:

    “Sacramento News Gilroy mayor: ‘Mass gun violence has become an epidemic'”

    An ‘epidemic’ roughly one-half as bad as it was about 20 years back.

    Sounds like we could use a whole lot more of that kind of an ‘epidemic’…

  3. avatar Forrest says:

    All this and we’re still not even starting to discuss Chicago which has seen at least 9 mass shootings this month alone.

    1. avatar daveinwyo says:

      Cihraq: 48 shot. 9 dead this last weekend.

    2. avatar SoCalJack says:

      It is odd that the national news media has given the Gilroy shooting so much more attention. Now the CA Dem Politicians are trying to put some blame on neigboring States like how Chicago Dem Politicians blame some guns coming from Indiana: http://www.kron4.com/news/gilroy-garlic-festival-shooting/state-lawmakers-react-to-deadly-gilroy-garlic-festival-shooting/amp/
      We can apply that saying the Dems, “when you point your finger at someone, there’s 3 pointing back at you”.

    3. avatar frank speak says:

      don’t forget baltimore…..

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        And Wisconsin:

        “Four victims and an apparent shooter have been found dead at two homes in northwest Wisconsin, authorities said.”

      2. avatar Miner49er says:

        And Mississippi:

        “Two people were killed and an officer was hurt in a shooting at a Southaven, Mississippi, Walmart Tuesday morning, according to ABC Memphis affiliate WATN.

        The suspected shooter was shot by a Southaven officer and was hospitalized in unknown condition, DeSoto County Sheriff Bill Rasco told WATN.”

      3. avatar Miner49er says:

        And Texas:

        “Ten people – eight students and two teachers – were fatally shot and thirteen others were wounded. The suspected shooter was taken into custody and later identified by police as Dimitrios Pagourtzis, a 17-year-old student at the school.”

        1. avatar Mike H says:

          … New York too:

          “Twelve people were struck by gunfire at a Brooklyn park shortly after the close of a festival that drew thousands of revelers, police said.”

  4. avatar Reno1947 says:

    Ban all gun free zones or ignore them

  5. avatar Daniel Silverman says:

    If this was an older version of the SKS then it wouldn’t fit the definition of an assault rifle.
    If it was the more modern version then yes.

    1. avatar fteter says:

      Interesting. Just checked the Penal Code sections for California’s Assault Weapons Law. Did not appear that the SKS is banned in California unless the shooter modified the rifle with removable mags and/or put on a “tactical” stock. It’s not listed as an “AK-47 series weapon” nor does it qualify under the general assault weapons section. So doesn’t this kinda show that someone determined to kill will find a way, regardless of how tightly guns are controlled?

      1. avatar Draven says:

        California did indeed specifically declare the Chinese “D” model SKS that can accept removable mags a destructive device to ban it after they realized that their precious AWB didn’t cover it.

        Also, if the shooter was a CA resident, he didn’t purchase the SKS legally… fed law says you have to satisfy the purchase requirements in your home state in order to buy a rifle in another state.

    2. avatar jwtaylor says:

      It was an AK.

      1. avatar Diogenes says:

        I think we all know that this could easily have been done with a ranch ruger mini which is either the first or second most common gun model in Canada and is not only not the restricted list in Canada — but is also not even on Canada’s registration list.

        I was in Canada three days ago and there was a quadrupole murder (no not the big fugitive manhunt triple murder one bit another this week ).

        Let’s not forget that the biggest ever school shooting in the USA was with pistol, and that Europe has had three mass murders by an individual in the past ten years — all larger than any US mass murder in the same period, the two biggest ones without guns at all,

        Making it about the implement used is crazy. Australia had a larger mass murder of children After gun control larger than any mass murder of kids before it.

        1. avatar jwtaylor says:

          It was an AK, not an SKS as originally reported. Considering California’s firearms laws, that is particularly important. It is yet another data point that gun laws don’t work.

        2. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          quote———————It was an AK, not an SKS as originally reported. Considering California’s firearms laws, that is particularly important. It is yet another data point that gun laws don’t work.—————–

          Taylor they do not come any more ignorant than you are. The nut case bought his mass murder assault rifle in another State that legally allowed him to own such a mass murder weapon of mass destruction and then he brought it to a Civilized State (California ) that had outlawed them proving that without a Federal Ban all the State gun laws are a joke. Now Genius what part of this do you not understand???????

        3. avatar Ing says:

          Vlad Tepes, you ignorant slut. One of the worst terrorist attacks in recent years was perpetrated in France, which as part of the EU has all the gun control you dream about. If the terrorists were able to commit mass murder with “assault weapons” in the middle of an ENTIRE CONTINENT that bans them, what makes you think they’ll magically disappear from the US?

    3. avatar Knute(ken) says:

      Daniel Silverman
      Please note the legal deference between an assault “rifle” and an assault “weapon”. There’s a world of difference.

  6. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    “the final R&B band of the night was leading the crowd in a rousing rendition of “Family Reunion” by the O’Jays.”

    Just a guess. Without looking up the culture of the Old Timers Day festival. I would say it’s more “black” orientated. Verses the Gilroy Fair which is orientated for everyone. Black on black crime is something the three Ls try to avoid talking about.

    Just as they avoid talking about the mass murders that happen in Chiraq all the time.

    1. avatar Sal says:

      Right just like the white on black in South Carolina when the trailer trash blew away 9 people in church. You are one of those who said nothing because he was a young white pos. Let me guess, you probably said, “Oh he’s got some sort of mental issue”. When the rich white man opened fire on a crowd of concern goers in Las Vegas you probably had the same rhetoric at the water cooler or the bar/ pub. Reality check, you should always be upset when innocent people are murdered regardless of the race or origin but in your minute macrocosym that doesn’t exist. Stop worrying about black on black, Hispanic on Hispanic, martian on martian crime it won’t make you any more intelligent to use those acronyms I promise. Learn some humane traitts like compassion & caring, it will enrich your life. I bet you feeling anger if someone hurts an animal? Get your mind right & do some knowledge of chiraq with in the 20s & 30s was a white ganster town with shootouts in broad daylight on Michigan Ave.

      1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

        Wow, you are off of your meds.
        I care about black on black crime because people like you never will. Your to much of a white Liberal.

      2. avatar Diogenes says:

        Sal black persons are 13.7% of the US population and commit 54% of US murder. They commit 58% of the mass shootings on Everytown’s mass shooting tracker

        On an a capita to capita basis blacks murder whites at TWICE the rate that whites murder blacks. Blacks murder 27% of all white persons murdered despite blacks being only 13.7% of the population. White are 64% of the population yet only murder under 6% of all blacks murdered.

        In Washington DC where the population is 50/50 black murdered 87% of all whites murdered and whites AND Hispanics combined murdered less than7% of blacks murdered.

        The two biggest mass murders in DC in the last 4 years totaled 16 people murdered, 15 of the victims white, and both perpetrators black(Arron Alexis, and Daron Wint).

        1. avatar frank speak says:

          at the root of mass shootings you’ll frequently find some diabolical white guy with questionable motives…with blacks it’s just an everyday event…..

        2. avatar Miner49er says:

          “blacks murder whites at TWICE the rate that whites murder blacks.”

          Depends on what time frame you’re looking at, that may be true for the past few decades but what is the historical context?

          We’ll never know for certain, but I’d say throughout United States history white on black violence some is much more prevalent.

          For the first 100 years of the history of the United States of America, whites routinely beat, raped, abused, and killed black folk.
          White folk kidnapped and pressed into servitude at the point of a gun and a whip hundreds of thousands of black people, without consequence.

          The legacy of white versus black violence is real and didn’t magically evaporate with the emancipation proclamation.

          Slave owners, oversee years, slave catchers and all the individuals involved in the mechanism of slavery created a culture of violence and exploitation of the black Americans.

          And today there are many who wish to re-create those golden years, throwing giant commemorative Civil War remembrance event and we’re shipping statues of the man who committed armed insurrection against the United States of America.

          Slavery poisoned American culture and today we’re dealing with the consequences of institutionalized persecution and slavery of men, women and children by the government of, for and by the people.

          Frankly, all people of privilege, white, black, brown, yellow, red should be helping to lift up those of our brothers and sisters whose culture has been blighted by slavery.

      3. avatar Southern Cross says:

        Is this Vlad’s new alter ego?

        1. avatar LazrBeam says:

          I don’t know but there’s some joker on DEFCON (Definitely Conservative) that I’ve never seen before spouting off, too. It may be a coordinated attack. Methinks we’ll see more of these trolls.

        2. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          No, Miner gave you historical information which you (Klan Hood with southern cross) in your ignorance have never learned. You obviously flunked history classes

        3. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          qoute—————–I don’t know but there’s some joker on DEFCON (Definitely Conservative) that I’ve never seen before spouting off, too. It may be a coordinated attack. Methinks we’ll see more of these trolls—————–

          If you have any reading comprehension Lazy Beam you just might learn something.

    2. avatar Indiana Tom says:

      Liberal media really does not like reporting on black on black violence.

    3. avatar SoCalJack says:

      Thanks for bringing that up, so true of how racist liberal media works.

  7. avatar Sian says:

    How do you legally buy a WASR-10 in Nevada with a California ID?

    That literally can’t happen.

    1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

      Any law abiding american citizen can purchase a long gun across state lines. That has never changed. Yet.

      1. avatar tdiinva says:

        It has to be legal in the State of residence.

        1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

          Featureless! Like a woman with no curves. YUCK!

        2. avatar Sian says:

          ^ this.

          It was an unmodified, standard WASR10. As I believe it’s banned BY NAME in California there’s absolutely no way it could be legally sold to a California resident.

        3. avatar frank speak says:

          fine distinctions that are frequently ignored….

      2. avatar Sky Stone says:

        Not in Commiefornia … It must be transferred between an FFL from the state of origin to an FFL in the state. The firearm must be Cal. compliant, DOS and 10 day waiting period applies, no exceptions unless your LEO and even then only under certain circumstances.

        1. avatar SkyMan77 says:

          DROS (Dealer Record of Sale) not DOS… Apologies, I apparently have IT on the brain syndrome today. Carry on…

      3. avatar Mark H says:

        Earlier reports said he was living in NV at the time. No indication (yet) if he bought the AK with an CA or NV issued DL.

        1. avatar JOAegis says:

          He was my neighbor.

          He lived in Walker Lake Nevada, near Hawthorne. He was a Nevada resident. He moved to Nevada from California, declares his residency to the state of Nevada, showed the rental contract for his crappy triplex apartment, pays fees for his new license, and was granted Nevada citizenship in a single short visit.

          It’s just a couple week affair from walking across the Cali border to having an official Nevada license in hand, to all of you who’ve never done it.

          I don’t know why so many of you are hung up on this. I think the waiting time to buy a gun in California takes longer than it does to just walk into NV, become a NV citizen, and buy a gun as a legal NV citizen.

          It’s really quite easy and fast. I’d be willing to bet you could probably even buy it on your temporary license and have a less than 24 hour turn around from leaving CA to lawful possession of rifle.

    2. avatar DaveL says:

      This was my reaction. 18 USC 922(b)(3): “…and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States”.

  8. avatar Ark says:

    The juxtaposition is incredible. Both public events, both strict anti-gun states, similar casualty counts, one vanishes into the memory hole while the other one is blared at deafening volume from every possible media outlet. Why? One fits the narrative, one doesn’t.

    Lives only matter when they’re ended by a “white” (Iranian-Italian?) man with a rifle.

    1. avatar Td says:

      Why Italian men ?

    2. avatar Whitey says:

      I don’t understand the need for quotes around white — as if you don’t really accept that fact. Why wouldn’t you call this particular killer a white man?

    3. avatar tdiinva says:

      Iranians are definitely white. They are in fact the real Aryans, not those Nazi boys in Germany.

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        Yep.

  9. avatar Garrison Hall says:

    Although they’ll never admit it up front, gun-controllers’ idea of a proper gun-controlled society tacitly accepts the idea that spree killers will always have access to gun-free zones, will always be able to kill and maim unarmed citizens. Their main interest is in promoting laws that reflect their social values. The fact that laws do little to stop bad people from getting their hands on guns is of secondary importance to them. You could make the argument that having spree killed victims serves to further their cause.

  10. avatar George Crosby says:

    No love for Maryland’s great gun laws?😎

    38 dead in Bodymore so far this month, 194 for the year.😲

    Yes , Mr. Trump hit the nail on the head…. most were in Rep. Cummings District. 😎

  11. avatar joefoam says:

    I’m also sure that murder is illegal nationwide. No matter how strict, gun control laws don’t work anywhere nor at any time in history. Amazing that the anti-gun crowd simply won’t accept that fact.

  12. avatar Political gristle says:

    ……So……… An SKS is an Ak-47?
    SKS (is an) AK-47 style assault rifle”

    1. avatar Political gristle says:

      Did the shooter have High capacity stripper clips?

      1. avatar Dbag says:

        How about high-capacity strippers? Then what is a “standard capacity” stripper, and where do you draw the line?

        1. avatar B says:

          A “Standard Capacity Stripper” has 6 inch heels and a “High Capacity Stripper” has 9 inch platform knee-high boots. But regardless of skill, each stripper has a right to own either.

  13. avatar Alan says:

    Gun Control was, is and remains a fairy tale with which the gullible are deluded. More could be added, but the facts of the matter, specified in the first sentence, remain unchanged.

    One more question that comes to mind is as follows. The movers and shakers behind Gun Control all seem to enjoy ARMED SECURITY, provided at public expense. These oh so concerned types would deny personally purchased defensive arms to us ordinary citizen types. How come this circumstance strikes me as a reasonable question.

    1. avatar Hush says:

      Alan, gun grabbers with armed security think their lives are more valuable than yours or mine!

  14. avatar American Patriot says:

    That God these 2 incidents happen in the (2) most Anti gun states. With out all the gun laws in place both of these cities would of been the O.K. Corral all over again……

  15. avatar Chuck says:

    First off, Gun violence is NOT an epidemic. That’s a totaly inappropriate and innaccurate use of the word. Epidemic is only used to describe outbreaks of infectious nosocomial and socomial diseases in a confined population. Any use of the word other than for that purpose is ignorant. So Politicians, quit exhibiting your stupidity and lack of education related to advanced vocabulary.
    Second, both incidents serve to prove a point, since both States have the most draconic gun laws in the lower 48. The fact remains that the very piece of gun legislation that either you or your predecessor’s insisted would stop these incidents from occurring, has once again failed to prevent anything. Yet now, you’re wringing your hands and beating your chests claiming you need even more extreme measures, and totally ignoring the fact that your previous legislation increased the likelihood of these crimes being committed. All you’ve done is aided and abetted the murderous thugs who commit these crimes, by ensuring their victims can’t defend themselves. Gun Free Zones = Target Rich Environments to these murderous A**holes, and you’ve helped them in their heinous acts. Damn you all to Hell.

    1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

      to Chuck

      quote—————-First off, Gun violence is NOT an epidemic—————–quote—————

      You need to get off the psychedelic drugs your on. We have mass shootings weekly and sometimes daily. We have gun battles on the streets by drug gangs in Chicago that rival the causalities in one day that happen in a week in the Middle East that is at war with everyone.

      quote—————————Second, both incidents serve to prove a point, since both States have the most draconic gun laws in the lower 48.——————quote

      Wrong again the state the kid bought his gun in allowed him to own an assault rifle while California has now outlawed them proving we need a Federal Ban on assault rifles as individual State laws do not prevent people from buying guns in states with lax laws or no laws. And I might add anyone can buy an assault rifle second hand even a felon who just got out of prison or a raving nut case. The Brady Bill does not vet second hand sales and we do not have mandatory mental health checks before you buy a deadly weapon. The rest of the industrialized world has had all these laws for decades.

  16. avatar former water walker says:

    Barely a blip on the radar during Chiraq’s regular mass shootings because it’s “those people”. Raciss?!? You betcha’😄 In Commiefornia they’ll just make guns illegaler…sigh.

    1. avatar Miner49er says:

      In fact, Chicago has a lower murder rate in Goldsboro North Carolina or Charleston South Carolina. Chicago has a lower murder rates in Cleveland Ohio or Orlando Florida.

      And I believe all those states I mentioned or Republican controlled, showing that the evidence is Chicago is a safer city under democrat controlled.

  17. avatar The SGM says:

    After all their gun law restrictions were put into place after previous shootings the bad guys still get guns. And I am sure the politicians are all scratching their heads saying ‘what did we do wrong and what else can we do?
    Well, for one thing they could begin enforcing and locking up the offenders of current gun laws. When was the last time a person was denied the sale of a weapon and had falsified information on the application, when was that person arrested ,prosecuted and jailed. With all the anti-gunners in CA what have they accomplished to keep weapons out of the hands of those that shouldn’t have them and what have they done and are continuing to do to get illegal guns off the streets? All their actions are meaningless words aimed at seeking sympathy and votes.

    1. avatar Southern Cross says:

      I’ve heard there are thousands of NICS denials every year, but about 90% are false positives. Do we arrest all of these people and hold them pending further information or get them to plea bargain in exchange for release after a few years?

      1. avatar MarkPA says:

        @Southern Cross: “. . . about 90% are false positives . . . ”

        There are two things to be concerned about here. And, they are each important.

        First are the 90% false-positives. Why does Congress not care AT ALL about the deprivation of Constitutional rights in these cases? If 90% of applicants to register to vote were false-positive rejected the Social Justice Warriors would be up-in-arms. Until the false positive rate is reduced to 9% and then 0.9% we aren’t taking deprivation of Constitutional rights under color of law seriously.

        Second, are the false-negatives. How do we clear this problem? The more one digs into it the more daunting the proposition becomes. In America, as its now constructed Constitutionally, is it realistic to imagine that the sieve of the criminal/mental reporting system could be plugged. (I’m pretty sure that this is a futile undertaking. Nevertheless, we have to make the best of it if we are to enforce felon-in-possession.)

        The entire NICS system is a fool’s errand. A waste of money and effort. Moreover, it’s a distraction from more effective efforts – such as enforcing felon-in-possession. If we won’t bother enforcing felon-in-possession why bother with NICS?

        Nevertheless, it’s futile to tilt against the windmill of NICS. We might just as well argue that laws prohibiting sale of tobacco and alcohol to minors ought to be repealed. Our efforts ought to be invested elsewhere.

        The strategic attack on NICS is NOT a frontal assault. It is indirect. Make Congress deal with the 90% false-positive rate. Make Congress deal with the problem of DENIED responses not being followed-up on. Make Congress deal with enforcing straw-buying and other violations of the NICS system in FFLs. All these as prerequisites to any consideration of UBC.

        The states’ reporting is a distinct problem. It doesn’t help to urge Congress to pay states a bribe to beef up their reporting. The states will take the money and still not fix their poor reporting. The states must be attacked by exposing them for the poor job they are doing.

        Neither the Feds nor the 50 states can enforce felon-in-possession effectively if states (and Federal agencies) don’t do a thorough job of reporting all qualifying cases to NICS. Hammer the states and Federal agencies which don’t report.

        NICS can’t survive the foregoing indirect assault strategy. It will collapse. Conversely, NICS WILL survive a direct assault attempting to summarily eliminate it.

  18. avatar James W Crawford says:

    One of the more reputable but less controversial sources of information.

    https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/mass-shootings.html

  19. avatar GS650G says:

    Eventually states like California will at their bans completely enacted leaving people to the tender mercies of the strong, the numerous, and the evil.

  20. avatar Rich B says:

    Another fine example of The People’s Republic of California “Gun Free Zone” and how much good it diid.. Nobody there allowed to conceal carry to protect themselves and their loved ones. Stupid People!!!

  21. avatar DCChristian says:

    “Common-sense gun safety laws”:
    1. National concealed carry, good in every city and state. Tax breaks for training and associated ammo purchases, to encourage safer, more accurate CCL holders.
    2. Areas/buildings designated “gun-free” zones must have a detailed plan to protect its occupants. Would generally require much better physical security, electronic surveillance and armed security personnel than existed at either of these attack locations.
    Law #2 is harder to implement effectively without law #2.

    1. avatar Alan says:

      Reply to Hush. Yes, they likely so believe.

      1. avatar Hush says:

        Reply to Alan: Indeed they must and surely do, otherwise why are they not setting the proper example for the rest of the world? Instead they have armed body guards as they preach how evil we are because we even own guns. While being protected by their bodyguards, they talk of confiscation and making laws that punish people who have done nothing criminal. Hypocrites one and all. Their life is not more valuable than ours. Moreover, we all have the right, even them, to protect ourselves and they don’t have any business telling us we can’t!

    2. avatar John in Ohio says:

      Why only concealed and why the extra carry hoops? Have so many POTG given up on exercise of the unalienable right of the individual to keep and bear arms? Government permission slips are now an acceptable compromise in place of exercising the right?

      Concealed Nation = Sheep Nation

    3. avatar Manse Jolly says:

      National concealed carry is never going to happen..EVER.

      The “gun control” States of the NE and Coast will not allow it no matter what SCOTUS or Congress says.

      Fighting for it is wasted energy.

      `just sayin

      1. avatar daveinwyo says:

        Don’t ask, don’t tell.
        I will carry when and where I see fit.
        Won’t go to F, uped no gun states.
        No way past Utah to the west and Nebraska to the east.
        Was another shooting in NYC this last weekend. Gang related.

        1. avatar frank speak says:

          utah to nebraska?…that’s a pretty bareass existence!….

      2. avatar r. corrino says:

        Worked for slavery and prohibition, segregation, why not guns.

        If the. Fed says it is law, AND ENFORCES IT, it will happen..

        1. avatar Jim Bob says:

          Didn’t really happen for alcohol prohibition, just like it hasn’t happened for drug prohibition.

          A lot of poeple died in the war over slavery.

          And based on my observations, schools are still fairly segregated.

    4. avatar GunnyGene says:

      Having been in a couple war zones, I can assert that “laws” won’t do anything helpful. The problem in the US is that we haven’t had a war zone in this country since that unpleasantness back in the 1860’s, so our entire country, with the exception of a few military bases and related high security sites and buildings is not geared towards security at all. Lots of glass and thin walls you can penetrate with a .22. No protection whatsoever for the vast majority of the country. People think they can protect themselves inside of a stick built house with a pistol for crying out loud, when any common hunting rifle will put bullets clean thru the place from 200yds away. Brick siding ain’t that much better, especially with those big ol’ picture windows. And retail buildings? Cars? Don’t make me laugh. A 9mm will go straight thru a car door, no problem – they don’t ricochet off or just dimple the metal/plastic.

      Point is if we want to harden this country effectively, 90% of it would have to be rebuilt from the ground up with safety and security as the first priority, and all that other stylish/comfortable “people friendly” junk sent to the nearest landfill. Then we can talk about “home/self defense” & guns rationally.

      1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        Actually is far cheaper to just ban guns and when you look at reality places like Japan and Britain do not have mass murder by assault rifles or road rage murder with hand guns either. Guess which path the Nation will soon take? You do not have to be a genius to figure it out.

  22. avatar Paladin says:

    Duh, just outlaw outdoor festivals you idiots! That’s the liberal Democrat answer to everything just ban it! MORONS!

  23. avatar Nanashi says:

    Killer’s grandfather was Iranian. Religion of peace?

    1. avatar bobby says:

      stretch much?

      1. avatar Nanashi says:

        Yeah it’s impossible the guy had the same religion as his grandfather. Children never follow the religion of their parents. Forget I ever suggested that.

        1. avatar Anymouse says:

          A lot of the earlier wave of middle eastern and Persian immigrants were Christians. The loser was at least a 3rd generation and was screaming that he was angry, not Arabic praises of God. The claimed Irish portion of the heritage makes it just as likely to be Catholic.

        2. avatar Miner49er says:

          Anymouse, Nanny really needs the shooter to be Muslim, it fits his delusional narrative.

          The fact that he was a natural-born American and the grandson of a West Point officer is rather inconvenient.

  24. avatar GunnyGene says:

    Meanwhile, a pretty normal weekend in Chicago: 39 wounded, 9 dead.

    https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2019/07/29/weekend-shootings-gun-violence-4/

    1. avatar George Crosby says:

      13 wounded, 6 dead in Bodymore since Friday….

      ….and 1/4th the population

      620,000 in Baltimore vs. 2,720,000 in Chicago

    2. avatar Miner49er says:

      California isn’t in the top ten for murder rate per capital.

      From 2015 to 2016, murder and non-negligent manslaughter rates in the United States went up 8.4%, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

      1. East St. Louis, Illinois

      2. Chester, Pennsylvania

      3. Gary, Indiana

      4. St. Louis, Missouri

      5. Baltimore, Maryland

      6. Flint, Michigan

      7. Detroit, Michigan

      8. New Orleans, Louisiana

      9. Salisbury, North Carolina

      10. Danville, Virginia

      The first California city is Compton at #14.

      And LA, San Fran and NYC aren’t even in the top 30.

      ‘Dangerous’ Chicago is at #24, beat out by Memphis, Goldsboro, Cleveland, Charleston and Orlando.

      More pesky facts.

  25. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    Each day brings more and more proof that the inevitable ban on high capacity assault rifles is coming. The Right Wing Racist kid only did not kill many, many more people because the spot he chose to do the shooting just happened to have some police in the very near vicinity, it could have easily went the other way. The police chief said the officers only had pistols and no rifles. An older man and or more experienced man would have chosen his field of fire with cover and taken out many, many more people as well as the police that responded to the shooting. They were no match for his long range rifle if he had known the basics of combat.

    With no mental health checks for gun buyers and no Federal bans (only individual State bans) the Right Wing Racist Nut Case simply bought an assault rifle in a neighboring State with lax laws and then brought it to a nearby State with tough laws showing the complete futility of having gun laws on a State basis rather than on a Federal level. In other words it did California no good at all to ban assault rifles when the Racist Right Wing Nut Case could buy an assault rifle in another State.

    No society on earth, even the lawless uncivilized U.S. is going to put up much longer with all this mass murder on a weekly basis. This is not the “old time” America any more. Today we live in a society that has a high divorce rate, and by necessity both parents working at low paying jobs because wages have stagnated over the last 50 years while prices have soared and the super rich have doubled their wealth. Its causing a complete break down in society and the first right to be taken away will inevitably be gun ownership especially the right to own deadly mass killing machines like assault rifles. The Supreme Court will simply rule that they have the right to regulate firearms and that the Founding Fathers never envisioned rapid fire mass murder machines. in other words if the judges let you keep a single shot muzzle loader your 2A rights have not been violated. Like it or not that is what is coming and sooner than you think. The good news is once its done your kids may just make it to adulthood without being slaughtered at school by a nut case with a mass murder assault rifle in his hands.

    Funny thing is I never needed an assault rifle when I went deer hunting, my single shot muzzle loader did just fine.

    1. avatar Tubeless Danny Boi says:

      Sounds like the plan comrade.

    2. avatar Karl says:

      The Supreme Court can be, and had been, wrong.

      By the way, your name… the man once had a Muslim man’s turbin nailed to his head because he wouldn’t take it off for Vlad. So did that make him a right wing nut job?

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        Yes, the original Vlad was indeed a Christian terrorist who had no problem killing anyone who didn’t share his Christian religion.

        This story sheds a little light on this whole Christian versus Islam drama.

        Similar to the holy Roman empire and the Spanish Inquisition, killings for the prince of peace.

        That is what we would call hypocrisy today.

    3. avatar Manse Jolly says:

      “..Funny thing is I never needed an assault rifle when I went deer hunting, my single shot muzzle loader did just fine…..”

      I don’t think Paul Revere, Samual Prescott, and Will Dawes were riding to warn everyone “That the deer are coming!”

      Funny thing history is and all.

    4. avatar As Astra says:

      From your first paragraph you seem to have put a lot of thought into how to conduct a mass shooting. I think it should be every responsible citizen’s duty to see that you are confined by the authorities while your mental health is evaluated.

    5. avatar Rich magnani says:

      and your single shot muzzle loader was the “assault rifle” of its time

    6. avatar jonhaul says:

      Why are you on this site? The laws against murder should stop killings if laws were effective to curb human behavior. How come meth heads still get meth? How come people die from homicides when its illegal. Regardless of what feel good laws are in place it is not going stop anything. How come gangs in the uk have guns too?

  26. avatar Rich magnani says:

    How can this happen when guns are so severely restricted in NYC? Maybe he didn’t get the memo. Just goes to prove the point, you’ll get ’em if you want to. When I lived in NYC, and owned a few guns,we paid the price (fees) to have them. It was steep, but worthwhile. The stupid regulations only count if you are not a celeb or a newsman. Yet, if you go down with a lawyer, things go smoother because they don’t want a fight with someone that knows the law.

  27. avatar BusyBeef says:

    Gun Free Zones are a crime against humanity.

  28. avatar JASON says:

    If more true humans would carry and use legal guns. An if the this chicken shit law system. Would kill these folks faster then this stuff will stop!!!!! UNITED WE STAND!!!! UNDER GOD

  29. avatar Mr no says:

    So much for scumos safe state.

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