As you might expect, former neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman is in hiding. Meanwhile, thanks to the Internet, the furor over the shooting of Trayvon Martin continues to spread and intensify. The Daily Caller reveals that “On Saturday, outspoken film director Spike Lee continued trying to bring attention to the case and Martin’s shooter. Lee has retweeted Zimmerman’s home address to his 245,000 followers at least twice since Friday.”
It would be nice if the MSM and Spike and all the rest of them gave a little outrage and empathy for the hundreds of dead Mexican citizens whose killing was directly aided and abetted by the current administration. I won’t hold my breath.
The criminals in Mexico would have gotten their guns from another source (most likely corrupt military depots) if not from the Gunwalker thing…
If Spike want’s to organize marches and vengeance killings against killers of black men, he might want to start with black neighborhoods, since, like most crimes, 90+% of all violent crimes are intra-racial. But hard to hold the victim card up very high when you are both the victim and perpetrator. And as for that child in the White House, good god…..
The threats against Zimmerman highlight another unpleasant aftermath of a defensive gun use situation;retaliation or threats thereof by the departed criminal’s associates & family members on the citizen forced to defend themselves.
Once again I repeat the disclaimer that I am not saying whether or not Zimmerman’s case is one of self defense;I do not know the facts, and thus hold no opinion on the matter. My point is simply that employing a firearm in self defense can result in a very unpleasant aftermath for the law abiding family even if the police and authorities clear the case immediately.A dead home invader was someone’s son , brother, father, or even co-worker, and it is something to bear in mind.
Some examples of criminal threats of retaliation:
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The weeklong trial took place in October of 1984. Word had reached Gary that Papa Zoot had bought a .30/06 rifle and sworn a “blood oath” to kill him. I was driving toward Fairfax County when I got the message from Gary’s lawyer that John and I wouldn’t be needed because the prosecution had self-destructed.
By Massad Ayoob, article here: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_168_28/ai_112685749/pg_2/?tag=content;col1
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Both armed citizens go home shaken. Der finds himself sitting up late, with his other pistol at hand, a Para-Ordnance P13.45. Felons in East Baltimore tend to run in packs and he is desperately afraid of gang retaliation for the shooting. Kifer is likewise distraught; paramedics have had to administer oxygen to him at the death scene.
Source article http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_165_27/ai_105698451/
“Retaliation or threats thereof by the departed criminal’s associates & family members on the citizen forced to defend themselves.”
True, but in this case, I think we all have to acknowledge that Trayvon Martin was NOT a criminal nor was he in the process of engaging in any criminal acts when Zimmerman confronted him. Martin was just an unarmed, 17 year kid walking home from the store.
Threats of retaliation / killing of Zimmerman are not OK, but I think the outrage that many people feel is understandable. I may be a gun owner, but I’m also a father, and ask myself… “How would I feel if my own unarmed son were shot just for walking around in my neighborhood?”
I’ve said before and I’ll say it again: I don’t believe it’s in the best interests of law-abiding, responsible gun owners like ourselves to so quickly side with Zimmerman. Especially when the facts of “self defense” are still unclear – such as how a 240 pound man was getting beat-up by a 140 pound kid. That and a 911 tape where there is clearly a young voice screaming for help.
Let the grand jury and the courts sort it out.
I don’t believe it’s in the best interests of law-abiding, responsible gun owners like ourselves to so quickly side with Zimmerman.
I don’t think that anyone here has sided with Zimmerman. Most of us have suggested that there aren’t enough facts in evidence to come to a decision. One or two have protested what they perceive to be a disparity of treatment toward Zimmerman because he and the deceased were of different ethnicities. Frankly, when I see what the MSM has been doing and compare it with what TTAG readers are doing, it is obvious that we are the reasonable ones.
Protesting a witch hunt isn’t siding with Zimmerman, it’s siding with justice. Unfortunately, I do not believe that justice will be served in this case. Right or wrong, innocent or guilty, Zimmerman is going to be punished because “society” demands it.
Ralph, unfortunately I believe you may be right.
I must also add that anyone here that’s willing to throw Zimmerman under the bus without all the facts should get ****ed and hope they’re never involved in a shoot that garners media outrage.
Ralph, I understand you’re a lawyer. Would Stand Your Ground even matter if Trayvon Martin had Zimmerman on the ground and was beating on him? Zimmerman couldn’t flee, which was the legal requirement under the old law.
If Zimmerman wasn’t the aggressor, he might be able to establish a good defense of justification even in a non-SYG state. However, justification (self defense) would only be a defense and would not confer immunity against arrest. It would be a very different case with a less-predictable outcome.
Stand Your Ground does not mean initiate confrontations and then kill when you are losing.
g,
It seems that everyone keeps referring to Zimmerman confronting Martin. I’m at a loss to ware anyone comes up with that scenario. All we know is that Zimmerman followed Martin. But judging from the 911 call, Zimmerman sounded more than just a little uneasy. So I find it hard to believe he would be willing to close any perceived safety gap, between him and the guy he is following. It has also been reported that Zimmerman clams to have lost sight of Martin. So how do you confront someone that you cant see? I think it is more likely that Trayvon Martin is the one who confronted Zimmerman.
You also bring up the weight deference of 140 lb vs. 240 lb and once again there is no way to confirm that, it is just speculation. I have heard that Martin is somewhere around 6-2 possibly 6-3 and Zimmerman has been reported to be 5-4 and possibly as short as 5-2. So I don’t find the proclaimed weight difference to be very believable. More than likely when all the fact are made public the weight difference will be proven to be untrue.
Lastly, a witness has came forward saying that he actually seen Martin on top of Zimmerman and Zimmerman screaming for help. Even in the police report it is said that Zimmerman was telling the medics that were treating him “I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me” So once again I don’t know why everyone keeps assuming it was Trayvon Martin screaming for help. It’s much easier to believe the guy with the broken nose and a gash to the head, that needed 13 stitches, was the one screaming for help.
“True, but in this case, I think we all have to acknowledge that Trayvon Martin was NOT a criminal nor was he in the process of engaging in any criminal acts when Zimmerman confronted him.”
Except last time I checked, pinning a person (yes, even a hispanic one) to the ground and beating the shit out of them WAS a crime.
And you know these are facts, how?
sorry this is for gen4n9
Please elaborate. What “facts” are you questioning? I’m just going on what was in the police report, 911 calls, and what has been reported in the new. And all I’m saying about the 100 lb weight difference, is that I don’t believe it.
My apologies gen4n9; for my comment was indeed in reply to totenglolckes’ comment. Note to self: when tired & perusing multiple articles, do not let fingers scroll too quickly through comments or fore-go proper proof reading . Gen4n9, even if the weight disparity is correct, a short fat guy is no match for a fit strapping 17yo.
Totenglocke, re: Martin not being a criminal or engaging in criminal acts, absent further investigation as to why Martin was on a 5-day suspension from his school in Miami, the question of him being a criminal or not is still open to debate and just what he was up to at the time of the conflict was unknown which is why Zimmerman called in a ‘suspicious person’ report to 911 With Martin dead, we will never know for certainty what exactly he was up to. His going to the store to obtain skittles & soda was not known until AFTER THE FACT, which again reenforces the old saying “hindsight is 20/20”. As for Zimmerman confronting Martin, if we ignore that the girlfriends statements would be considered hearsay & inadmissible in court, her recollection of the conversation with Martin states that Martin is the one who confronted Zimmerman with a verbal challenge which Zimmerman returned, it is unknown who was the first to lay hands on the other.
This was an unfortunate but tragic conglomeration of circumstances resulting in anguish all involved. unfortunately, the race baiters & guilt pimpers have so abused this tragedy toward their own purposes, that those who want nothing more than justice to prevail, can have no justice.
I understand, I have been commenting in so many places and read so many comments and articles, that it gets a little difficult to keep track of it all.
The Black Panthers’ call to “arrest” Zimmerman “dead or alive” is a crime and itself a case of excessive vigilantism. I won’t hold my breath waiting for them to be charged, even though their acts were recorded and publicized.
They’re not white, they get a free pass.
Sure, because as we all know, not a single Black Panther has ever been shot by the police.
I am not sure I understand your point Ralph. The NBPP has issued “warrant” on this man, including a $10K reward. Whether a Black Panther has been shot or not is not germane to this discussion.
I think the DOJ DOES owe society a service in investigating this “dead or alive” proclamation, regardless.
There has clearly been some new developments with this witness statement that certainly places into doubt the veracity of Mr. Martin’s complete innocence.
Whatever the outcome, this incident has done nothing but polarize the race issue, with the help from the MSM, Race-baiting “leaders” (Jackson, Sharpton, Spike, Farrakhan, NBPP, etc…). This doesn’t end well for anyone because the Rule of Law and Justice will not prevail here.
His comment was in response to Silver’s implication that Black Panthers get away with criminal behavior because they’re not white.
Historically, Ralph is right. But history and the present are two different things. With the current administration in place, I find it hard to believe that federal charges would ever be brought up against the BP. Local? Probably.
“Historically, Ralph is right. But history and the present are two different things.”
Correct. Use history to justify modern reverse-racism and implied immunity, Ralph, It’s what they do. I guess we should keep clubbing Brits for the Boston Massacre. You’re usually right on the money about most things, but using historical incidents between individuals to justify a modern brazen and unlawful threat on one’s life is rather low.
I’m a pure Constitutionalist. No matter what occurred in history, no matter what people did or did not do, everyone is equal and every single person is equally accountable. No special treatment, no political correctness, no privilege. That’s what America is supposed to be.
Silver, it’s very easy for someone who hasn’t been vicitmized by discrimination, Jim Crow laws and such, or whose family hasn’t been so victimized, to write off the past as just the past. It’s more difficult for people who are still going through it, and they’re especially distrustful of the rule of law when police are still shooting black men with cell phones and getting away with it. I’d post links to all the cases, but then we’d need to start another web site.
Parts of Florida are still fighting the Civil War and still viciously racist.
@Michael B, unfortunately history and the present are not two different things when history repeats itself constantly.
Further proof that certain groups in this country care nothing for peace and justice and only want violence and power in the name of “their own.”
That’s not even the real tragedy; groups like that have existed since humanities beginnings. The real tragedy is that decent Americans are sitting idly, paralyzed by political correctness and leftist brainwashing, rather than taking the fight to these groups.
While there are many facts that may not have come out yet, for some reason, this reminds me of Richard Jewell in many ways, at least in regards to the MSM coverage.
The mayor of my neighboring city, Philadelphia, has just gone on MSNBC claiming a horrible injustice occurred, insisting that George Zimmerman be arrested. Mayor Michael Nutter’s statement contained its own internal proofs that he knew neither the facts of the case, to the extent such facts are public, nor the relevant laws of Florida. His motivation appeared to be to advance solidarity with black voters. I say this because making such a statement without taking the time to familiarize himself with the details simply doesn’t logically argue an interest in the justice of the matter. What a cynical action that will do nothing but fan the flames. We have enough problems in the US without turning ambiguous local tragedies into exercises in national racial solidarity. What a disaster for race relations.
Tub-thumpers like Michael Nutter have been doing the same thing since before our nation began. Because it works.
It never ceases to amaze me how easily people can be led to do the bidding of their masters.
I’ve no doubt Mike thinks that taking the position he did will have a calming effect locally. And he’s no John Street. However, there is a distinct problem with Philly policing policy: They’ve repeatedly arrested legal gun carriers on trumped up (and later dropped) charges. And yet if you have to leave the core “special police zone” (read Business District), the city remains full of illegal guns, aided (many say) by in incredibly lax judge at Gun Court, which is a Common Pleas court handling mainly illegal gun possession cases.
Meanwhile the media continues to show pictures of a very young good-natured and innocent looking TM and then that of an older unhappy thuggish looking GZ. The media continues to refer to TM as a young teen or child even after they are well aware TM is a 17 year old 6’3″ man. Yes, I said man though legally he is regarded as a minor. Deal with it.
Hey, I don’t know who did what and to what degree one or both parties were right or wrong. I am disgusted by how the mass media is handling this case.
A 6’3″ person sounds like a threat… but he only weighed 140 pounds.. I would have wiped the floor with that kid. I suspect that Zimmerman could have too, since he outweighed him by 90 to 100 pounds. Either Zimmerman didn’t try hand-to-hand to get the kid off before he went for his gun, or he is really, really out of shape.
Seriously, anybody here in their 20’s or early 30’s who thinks they’d get their ass handed to them by someone they outweigh by a hundred pounds? I’m early-30’s, and I just can’t imagine it..
Well, I don’t know any adults who I outweigh by 100 pounds. But I know *plenty* of guys who outweigh me by 100 pounds -many of them about my age- whose asses I could could certainly hand them, if I so chose.
I’m not boasting– I’m not in particularly good shape, and only have a moderate amount of training. I’m just saying that for many builds, an extra hundred pounds isn’t an asset. Dunno which sort Zim was.
The claim of 140 lbs is out of date, and the morgue apparently agrees. I was 6’2″ and 150 by 10th grade and heavier guys didn’t frighten me in the least. You put them on the ground, after which weight doesn’t matter. If they’re short-armed, they don’t get close. We’re speaking of real fighting, not some silly punching duel, which is for fools. The evidence (undisputed) that the ‘kid’ was suspended for weed-related reasons, and whose brother had heard that he punched out the bus-driver five days earlier, and a photo of him at 17 looking nothing like Obama with gold-grilled teeth, do seem to remove the presumption that he was a pretty A-student athlete with no likelihood of going after someone. It kinds of neutralizes the early hype, 12-yr-old photos, and parents claiming “it was Trayvon crying for help.” We can suppose the SA will sort it out, if the witnesses aren’t lynched first.
At this point, for many people, it seems to clearly be a cause about race, guns, and justice, regardless of whether many facts that challenge the narrative are widely known because of inflammatory and selective reporting.
One of my thoughts is that social media and the internet have been very challenging to the working model of traditional media. This may be an example of the media essentially figuring out how to get in front of this story and wag the dog of social media by seeding the discussion with an overwhelming proportion of less complete and leading information.
This may mean there is a need for social media to become more effective, discerning, and less baited by poor coverage of events.
it seems to clearly be a cause about race, guns, and justice
Let’s face it — it was never about justice. I also think that shortly, it won’t be about guns, even though the wingnuts are trying to exploit it and make it so. No, it’s about race and revenge.
I have an honest question: Was Martin really only 140 lbs when he attacked Zimmerman? If Martin was 6 foot 4 inches and only 140 lbs he would have been Wilt the Stilt. I suppose anything is possible, but for the height, the weight seems very low for a football player. I played right defensive tackle in football and I was sort of a bowling ball in build and effectivness.
He hadn’t played football for a couple of years… and even then it wasn’t high school, it was youth league. And yes, he only weighed 140… according to the Sanford Po-Po. His nickname was “slim”.
I just don’t get how a beefy guy like Zimmerman, who’d bounced parties before and had his jaw broken in a fight couldn’t physically handle that kid before grabbing a gun. Seriously, thats not criticism… I’m just baffled. Is he disabled or something? Can’t wait till the facts come out.
The official report says 160 lbs. His nickname was “Slimm” but that was his use. Others called him Tray. His twitter name is beyond writing here, as from my pen it would sould like a racial slur. His pals asking him on facebook messages for some “plant” is a bit over the top, too. Zimmerman as bouncer: Laugh, I think that’s the night he gave up fighting forever.
The actual police report is available on the Sanford city website. Note what it says about the condition of Zimmerman when the officers responded.
NOT in this police report, are some of the allegations cited by the local media, from supposed witnesses, that Trayvon may have shoplifted the Skittles and Arizona Ice tea from the convenience store minutes before his demise (I know, shoplifting is not a capital offense), and there are also copies of his now-deleted Facebook page where Trayvon claims or pretends to be a gangster (again, not an illegal behavior). He was also on current suspension from school.
Original police report (redacted):
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf
Really? That guy posted his address on the internet? What does he expect to happen? Does he want harm to come to a guy that has yet to be found guilty? Does he want a mob to drag him out of his house and kill him?
I would tell Zimmerman to ready his rifle.
Police that have bad shoots do not even get close to this much attention. They just get paid vacation and a pat on the back.
People are continuously promoting racism when anything happens to a “black” person.
Spike Lee HATES white people. He hates anyone of European ancestry. Anyone who doesn’t think that blacks secretly HATE whites only need to see video of FAU black student calling for killling White Mfkers. Obama secretly hates whites too. And jews. Yet stupid Jews vote for Obama.