Outside of some time at SHOT Show range days, I haven’t had much time with a compensated pistols. I wasn’t sure if I ever needed one, especially on a 9mm carry gun. Some compensators seemed too big for them to be practical, so I never really paid much attention to them.
Until, that is, I ran into the Griffin Micro Carry Comp. The Micro Carry Comp directly competes with a thread protector for size. While slightly larger, it doesn’t compromise your ability to conceal the gun.
The Micro Carry Comp carries a small price tag, at least compared to other comps. It attaches with nothing more than a 16mm wrench and needs only 8 pounds of torque applied to it. As far as installation goes, the Micro Comp wins in the simplicity department.
The Micro Carry Comp comes in a standard 1/2×28 model, a 13.5×1 LH, and a ½ x 28 model for smaller guns like the Glock 42, 43, and P365.
The Griffin Armament Micro Carry Comp is the epitome of simplicity and features three ports to ensure proper alignment. Using washers to align the ports correctly simplifies the process, but wasn’t necessary for my installation. It squeezed right on and aligned with ease. It adds about a half-inch or so to my CZ P10c’s threaded barrel and no noticeable weight.
Range Test
I took various ammo types to the range, including Armscor 147 grain, SIG V-Crown 124 grain JHPs, and some basic 115-grain range ammo. There seemed to be little advantage with the comp in using the 115-grain FMJs. There was a slight reduction, but there isn’t much muzzle flip to reduce with that light round.
The most significant difference came when I moved to he heavier 147 grain and M17 loads.
The Micro Carry Comp reduced muzzle flip considerably with those loads. The pistol’s sights barely moved, even with the +P JHP loads. The compensated movement was more of a shake and less of a jump.
Despite its appearance, the Micro Carry Comp’s diminutive size does not mean diminutive performance. The single-port effectively reduces muzzle rise, and a reduction in muzzle rise means I can shoot quicker with greater accuracy.
The faster I shoot, the more efficiently I can increase the lead toxicity level in a target. To me, that’s a decisive win.
As a new comp user, I think I’ll need some more time with the compensated pistol to get used to the advantages it provides. I feel like I have to relearn my cadence and muscle memory due to my much faster recovery times. The Micro Comp reduced my par times quite nicely.
Micro Carry Comp – Time Matters
With the Micro Carry Comp, I trimmed a quarter of a second off of my failure-to-stop drill time, and almost a half-second off of my iHack time. Keep in mind when I shoot these drills, I typically use 115-grain ammo, and for these runs, I was feeding the gun heavier 147-grain loads.
From a more tactile perspective, the Micro Comp makes a lightweight, compact polymer frame gun handle better than a full-sized carbon steel, 40 ounce 1911 in 9mm.
A compensator ports off the gas to reduce recoil. That could make the gun trickier to use in less than optimal conditions. In low light, there’s concern about muzzle flash. When you come back to the idea that this is a 9mm handgun, the notion that muzzle flash is an issue goes out the window. Even in low light, the muzzle flash is minimal and doesn’t seem that much more than uncompensated barrel flash.
Another potential downside is shooting from close retention. There’s a reasonable fear that the muzzle blast could harm the user. Shooting from close retention exposes you to some muzzle blast, but not a painful amount. No shooting gloves required here. Should you be grappling for your gun, then you might find yourself closer to the device and in closer proximity to some potential pain.
The Griffin Micro Comp presents shooters with an affordable and simple upgrade to your firearm. It hardly changes the gun’s size or your ability to handle or carry it concealed. The Micro Carry Comp improves your ability to recover from multiple shots, and if you can shoot faster, you can fight better.
For its small size and weight, the Micro Carry Comp offers an impressive performance upgrade at a very affordable price.
Specifications: Griffin Micro Carry Comp
Material – 17-4 stainless steel
Finish – Black Nitride
Thread Pitch – 1/2×28
MSRP – $64.95
Ratings (out of five stars):
Installation: * * * * *
Hand thread it on, tighten it with a wrench, and boom, you’re done. No set screws, minimal timing or tools required.
Ergonomics: * * * *
Small, light, but effective is a great combination. The only downside is the bit of upward muzzle blast you can catch from close retention shooting.
Overall: * * * * *
The Griffin Armament Micro Comp is a superbly small and simple device that does wonders for such a small device. On smaller guns, I’d imagine even more value could be found. A small footprint, combined with a small price tag and a high degree of efficiency makes the Griffin Armament Micro Carry Comp a winner.
To clean your barrel after shooting do you need to remove the compensator each time? If your barrel isn’t threaded do you have to get a threaded barrel?
Cleaning depends on the weapon design. IE…Although not necessary most folks remove Glock barrels for cleaning. The comp is a threaded device so you need a threaded barrel to secure the comp at 8 pounds; removal should be quick. I am more concerned about flash and according to the writer it is minimal.
“If your barrel isn’t threaded do you have to get a threaded barrel?”
Yes…
If you need to remove the barrel from the slide, yes. However, there’s quite a bit of cleaning one can do without removing the barrel. The must of the barrel can be cleaned from a locked slide position, and most of the other areas can be reached with a slide takedown without barrel removal.
Would like to also know.
Compensators make a gunm seem louder. I want a suppressed compensator with a polychoke.
if the recoil gets reduced to almost nothing, how can the slide cycle?
I can see how you could be confused by this but handguns are not “recoil” operated (POTG, please don’t reply with exceptions). They are gas operated. The gas that pushes the bullet down the barrel is the same gas that operates the slide. The “recoil” you feel is not a part of the operation but a result of it. Having a muzzle brake on the end of the firearm distributes the expanding gasses exiting the barrel in a way that is different than the default method: straight outta the tube. By designing the brake to force the gases into different directions you can reduce muzzle flip and felt recoil. It does not reduce the pressure in the barrel while the bullet is still passing through it. Even with a brake, the barrel is still the same length as it was before. The only thing that is changing with a brake is the way the gas exits the end of the barrel AFTER the bullet has exited the muzzle. The round in the barrel is still fired normally and the pressure increase still cycles the action. When the bullet finally leaves the end of the barrel, the pressure drops again.
Uhhh…. no, just stop
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0&w=560&h=315%5D
Seriously? What about that you couldn’t understand. The term recoil is heavily misused and misunderstood. Guywithagun attempted to clarify. Obviously the problem isn’t with his somewhat imperfect explanation but your lack of ability to understand the way firearms work. @$$hats like this are what make this site suck. Do you sit by your computer waiting for someone to say something you don’t understand and then you blast them with that misappropriated meme? Let me guess, you haven’t gone a day without using it.
Really Einstein? Is that why when you screw a suppressor on to the end of the barrel, something that dramatically increases the gas pressure acting on the slide (and the cartridge case in the chamber) as it moves rearward, you will get malfunctions/failures to feed and cycle unless you install a recoil booster piston? If what you said was true, the suppressor would actually increase (not decrease) cyclic rate like you see when you put one on a gas operated rifle. Or heck, look at all the guys running tricked out race guns in IPSC/IDPA with compensators and wildcat rounds that are designed to dramatically increase the gas expelled during firing to maximize the effectiveness of the compensator… if these guns were “gas operated” why do they all need aggressive weight reducing cuts in the slide and ultra light recoil springs to function properly? If what you and the shocking number of people who have responded since allege is true… both of these cases would increase, not decrease, cyclic rate of the firearm negating the need for things like recoil boosters or reduced power recoil springs. The same goes for limp wristing the gun, if the operation was based on gas pressure forcing the case head back against the breach, this wouldn’t impact the slide cycling. So the actual mechanics of the system completely disagree with what you are saying.
Very few pistols are true gas blowback operated, and nearly every modern semi automatic pistol on the market today that is chambered in anything more powerful than 22lr utilizes some form or the Browning designed tilting barrel short recoil operated action. Watch a slowmo video, or just cycle your gun by hand, when the round is ignited the barrel and slide are locked together and both move to the rear under recoil of the fired round, after a short movement (usually 1/16th to 1/8th of inch) the barrel lug engages the recoil block in the action (or the link in a 1911/hi-power) and cams downwards unlocking the action, at this point the slide continues moving to rear under its own momentum (not because of any residual gas pressure in the system or pressure from the case head on the breech face) completing the cycle and ejecting the spent round. By the time the action unlocks the bullet is long gone and gas pressure in the system is effectively 0, we arent talking over-bore magnum hunting rifles here so you dont get the same “rocket nozzle” effect of recoil from burning powder venting after the bullet is gone, this is why compensators on handguns arent that effective to begin with, and why the author of this post didnt see any material effect on cycling from this comp. The expanding gas from burning gunpowder is only generating a rearward force for the microsecond that it is accelerating the bullet down the barrel, this all occurs from the slide and barrel are still firmly locked together.
So yes… I default to the video I linked, we are all very much dumber and worse off as a result of your response, but since you asked, no I dont only use that one, there are others that convey the same sentiment:
https://youtu.be/QJD2MrcTT4M
Cheers!
Well, Tex… You’re the only dumb one here. And about 10 other replies on this comment just completely disagreed with you. Guywithagun was correct and clarified his comments down below. You’re the only person to disagree in this thread so take that as a hint.
I’ll help you out again with this one… There is manually-operated reloading (pump, lever, revolvers, etc.) and there is gas-operated reloading (semi-automatic firearms). If you didn’t pull/push the pump, move the lever with your hand, or cock the hammer between shots, then it was gas pressure that reloaded the firearm. Yes, there are many different kinds of gas operation but they all reload the firearm using gas pressure from the cartridge. You should learn how firearms actually work before you troll with your pathetic videos.
You have it backwards- almost all pistols *are* recoil operated. This comp doesn’t affect the operation of the action because it doesn’t (and couldn’t, unless by sheer weight) change the actual recoil that operates the slide.
Newer pistols that are called “recoil operated” still do same thing for the purpose of this conversation as blowback pistols. The only difference is the delayed rearward movement of the barrel and slide together to lock the barrel longer for pressure sake. He’s obviously trying to educate the Gus on the difference between the recoil of the firearm vs the recoil of the slide. Handguns do not operate like inertia shotguns. You are necessarily splitting hairs for the benefit of no one.
What splitting hairs said.
And yes, compensators can affect the operation of the slide. They typically don’t reduce recoil nearly as much as a brake does. They are designed more for keeping muzzle flip down. If you put a brake on a handgun, it will stop it from operating (at least an effective one).
A marginal load will now fail to cycle your handgun with a compensator. So a stiff recoil spring, with a light factory load is unlikely to cycle the gun.
But the free recoil energy difference of something like a +p 147 gr load vs a 115gr light factory load is MASSIVE. What might end up happening is you need to step down a pound or two in your recoil spring to get it to function reliably with light ammo. It sounds like this comp is pretty mild and thus you’d like retain full operation with even light ammo. Manufacturers don’t want their stuff running border line with typical ammo.
Something I found with my glock on the opposite end, also means really juiced stuff might not run reliably. With a used factory recoil rod (probably 2-2.5k rounds on it), I was getting 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 failures to feed on Winchester Ranger T +p 147gr loads. Swapped in a brand new factors recoil rod and spring and it went to 2 failures on a mag for 2 mags. I dropped in a SS rod and 18# spring, just 1# more, and flawless function for 2 mags (all I shot that day). Likely either it reduced flip just that bit more, or the extra pressure allowed it to chamber. Though I had zero failures to chamber hand cycling. Could also be it was losing a lot energy by slamming in to full recoil hard (either in to my hand and wrist even though I was holding it very firmly. Never had limp wrist issues before, or in to the frame) and thus had less energy trying to return to battery.
Anyway, on the other end, a lot of guys with competition guns using highly efficient comps run light recoil springs, like 12-14# to be able to cycle 115gr loads reliably (and sometimes they are custom loading 115 down to like 1050fps on top of that).
No sir. You, in fact, have it backwards. They are not recoil operated despite what the manufacturer calls it. Recoil operated is an industry sub-type of gas piston operation to differentiate from direct gas blowback operation in semi-automatic pistols due to the increased pressures in larger caliber rounds requiring a delay before opening the breach. There are also additional types of gas-piston operations in semi-automatic pistols.
Every single one of the following firearms are GAS PISTON operated. The only difference is the design, orientation, location, of the piston and the route the gas takes to push it.
Semi-automatic pistols (gas blowback or delayed blowback. The piston is the primer end of the cartridge)
AR-15 (Direct impingement) (yes, this is absolutely a gas piston operating system. The piston is inside the bolt carrier. This is a “delayed” gas piston operation)
AR-15 (pistons) (this is a short-stroke gas piston design. There are also some long-stroke designs)
AK-47 and variants (this is a long-stroke gas piston design)
@”MIT Grad”, LOL is all I have to say to that
@Splitting Hairs – you’re the only one splitting hairs, so name checks out I guess. So-called “blowback” IS a type of recoil operated. Please guys, learn the *basics* before you comment. There’s a lot of bad info here.
@ Eric, it seems most of the people on this thread disagree with you. Please remain ignorant and please continue to make personal attacks against those with whom you disagree without providing any valid or lucid arguments of your own. This is what makes TTAG the most entertaining.
What an interesting perspective you guys have here. As a mechanic, I have never once heard anyone describe the internal combustion engine as recoil operated. The piston recoils in the cylinder due to the combustion of the fuel transmitting its energy to the crankshaft. Just because there is recoil does not make it “operated” by recoil. While a round in a blowback handgun is not a true piston in the same sense, it is very much acting in the same way as pointed out above. By this same logic, it seems to me that to describe the semiautomatic pistol as “recoil operated” is a terrible disservice and confusing. It confuses the cause and the effect. Both the pistol and the engine are operated by combustion. Recoil is an effect of the combustion. Without combustion, there is no recoil. “Recoil Operated” sounds valid and cool at first but is really just misused marketing garbage terminology. It’s the same way “Assault Weapon” is misued by the media.
Holy CRAP! No they are NOT *recoil* operated. As was already stated so succinctly, “recoil is not a force, it is a reaction to a force”. Recoil does not “operate” anything on it’s own. Another force (gas pressure) caused the recoil of the slide.
https://imgflip.com/i/5j8bpv
Remember kids:
Semi-Automatic = Gas-Operated
Re-coil = Re-action
I am no handgun fanboi, but “gas operated and not recoil”? You’ve lost me. I have a 1911; where is its gas piston? Surely you don’t mean that gas coming out the barrel makes it gas operated, or I’d be thinking my flintlocks are more modern that they appear.
I may well be so ignorant about this that you are correct and “gas operation” means something I hadn’t thought of. But you are clearly trying to simplify your answer which means it is aimed squarely at people like me, and I sure don’t understand that.
I try to educate, and this is the thanks I get. Clearly my over-simplification was misunderstood. My apologies to the POTG on the confusion of my semantics while trying to educate another POTG with a legitimate firearm question. Let’s double down:
Definition: “Blowback is a system of operation for self-loading firearms that obtains energy from the motion of the cartridge case as it is pushed to the rear by expanding gas created by the ignition of the propellant charge.”
Many people incorrectly assume that the recoil of the FIREARM (which the shooter feels) is responsible for the cycling of the handgun action. It is only the recoil of the SLIDE and not the entire firearm. The recoil felt by the shooter and the recoil of the slide are independent of each other and thus the term “blowback” is used to distinguish between the recoiling operation of the slide versus the “recoil” that the shooter feels. My original response was to distinguish between the operation of “blowback-operated ” versus “recoil-operated” operated firearms.
Recoil is not a force. It is a reaction to a force. The force that operates the handgun slide is expanding gas – high-pressure gas inside the cartridge. The expanding gasses caused by the ignition of the powder inside the cartridge causes two actions: 1) the expanding gases inside the cartridge force the bullet out of the casing and down the barrel and 2) the expanding gasses also force the shell casing backwards into the slide. This forces the slide to move rearwards as well which then ejects the cartridge and loads a new one after the spring pushes it forward again. This is called “blowback” operation, not “recoil”. This is not the same as a gas-impingement or gas-piston system as used in rifles such as the AR-15. However, the force that causes the slide to move rearward is the same expanding gas that pushes the bullet out of the barrel. What you are calling “recoil” is generally perceived as the force that the shooter feels when firing. OP was questioning why the reduced recoil of a brake would not interfere with operation of the slide. The answer is: the slide is moved rearward by the expanding gas blowback. The “recoil” that the shooter feels is irrelevant to the operation of the firearm. If you put the grip of the handgun in a vice so that it is unable to recoil, the slide will still cycle and the firearm will continue to operate.
Note: There are shotguns that do operate on recoil and they do require the recoil of the firearm and the shooters shoulder to operate. If you put that shotgun in a vice, the action will not cycle as the recoil of the firearm against the operator is required to properly cycle the action. However, most handguns are gas-blowback operated and do not use this principle of recoil operation.
“You’ve lost me. I have a 1911; where is its gas piston?”
i can help here. the “gas piston” in your 1911 and mine is the back of he shell.
the way I see it all semi-autos are gas operated… well mauybe not the gatlings. I don’t get caught up in the perticulars of the marketing strategies of each gun company that calls their firearm blowback, roller-delayed blowback, short-recoil, inertia, piston, DI, blah, blah. fact is, none of those guns will reload without the boom of the powder. glock, 1911, AR-15 = gas operated. if you’re not moving the bolt with your hand, then the gas is doing it for you. gas operated.
“I may well be so ignorant about this that you are correct and “gas operation” means something I hadn’t thought of.”
He is 100% correct. Congratulations on your new understanding of how firearms actually operate. To say that gas impingement designs, such as in the stoner AR rifle design, or a piston design, such as in the AK47, are the only gas operated designs is 100% false and misleading. This description is a complete misnomer and is used in the firearm industry to differentiate between the different types of gas-operated firearms. To say that a handgun is “recoil operated” shows a complete lack of understanding physics despite the industry usage. If the firearm could be operated by recoil, then I could argue that you could simply cycle the action of the slide by very rapidly pushing and pulling the firearm using the inertia of the slide (imagine taking the slide spring out and reassembling). Unfortunately due to the force of the slide/bolt spring, humans are not strong enough to do this. They need help. This help comes from the expanding gasses during the firing process. It is this gas that moves the bolt/slide and cycles the action. The recoil is a result of the gas operation. The gas also moves the projectile.. So yes, your flintlocks are also gas operated if you want to use the definition loosely. However, they are not automatic nor semi automatic and do not auto reload and are therefore a terrible comparison. Those are human operated reloading actions equivalent to a bolt action, lever action, pump action, etc.
Out of curiosity, I had to look this up and found this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK6sNYz2aQg
To me, the movement of the “blowback” vs “recoil” pistol slide behaves exactly the same way with the only exception being the short movement of the barrel to keep the pressure inside the chamber for a fraction longer. Using the term “recoil-operated” to describe this action in semi-auto pistols as unique is a joke and marketing hype. Both slides are recoiling and they are both blowback. The recoil effect of these two pistols on the the shooter is probably negligible.
Compare this to a delayed blowback pistol which operates similarly to an AR. I even didn’t know those existed. It recoils by the gas port pushing on a piston vs direct blowback where the piston is the shell. Thanks!
“if the recoil gets reduced to almost nothing, how can the slide cycle?”
The bullet cartridge casing acts as a piston and pushes the breech backwards, as part of the ejection cycle…
My Glock 19 Gen 5 doesn’t cycle with 115gr ammo with the comp on. My P365 does just fine with it.
If you stick your finger in the end of the barrel that gen5 will cycle just fine.
HaaaaahaaaaHHHHHAAAAAA! Best laugh I’ve had all week. <3 ya Possum.
Hotter rounds provide more gas to push down and reduce muzzle flip. Depends on port size, angle, location on comp as well.
I’ve got brakes on most of my long guns except a .22 mag rifle and one other. Yes, I’m ‘that guy’ at the range. I have at least two 9mm comps I’ve tried but they don’t seem to come alive until your into +P.
Good article and review..I might give this a go too.
“Yes, I’m ‘that guy’ at the range.”
Yup, I too am ‘that’ guy. You should’ve been a fly on the wall when a local LEO saw my shotgun’s brake. A low muttered “Jesus” issued forth, & it was literally all I could do to maintain a straight face. Or, it might have been at the entire setup, but the brake sure makes it look like AA.
That mono-pod 20 rnd box mag in it didn’t help the perception, I’m sure.
Hmm..Please tell me more about this shotgun brake. I’ve been cutting on my project shotty’s loading port so I can quad load better. Almost complete and did not considered that.
My inner ‘that guy’ is yelling “do it, do it, DO IT!
It’s not going to be easy, if you’re looking for the best. They, at the top of the game are made by the Russians, for Saiga & Vepr 12, or derivatives. Difficult to find in stateside, but the best in the game are the GK-02 & GK-03(++), designed by Molot, which are subcontracted to ISPC Lab, CustomGunz.ru, and a couple of others for manufacturing.
Differences between them; the -02 is marginally better with the extreme end of the load spectrum. It’s also longer, and heavier than the -03(++). The later, is the best all arounder besting the 02 in every metric except the heaviest loads. Having shot both extensively, I would, and did indeed upgrade to the -03(++), and I’m quite satisfied.
I should warn you, they are large, and will block off a fair amount of real estate on the topside of the barrel, obscuring sights on a tube fed shotgun. Optimal for what they were designed for, but other high offset barrel’s like bullpups & AR based shotguns can use them too. You’ll also need your barrel threaded, or cut for M22 x .75 RH threads to mount them.
– Carolina Shooters Supply has the dies if your gun meet’s the criteria.
https://www.carolinashooterssupply.com/VEPR_Shotgun_Threading_Tools_s/2040.htm
– Dissident Arms, or ForShooters has stock on the brakes, last I looked
http://dissidentarms.com/index.php/product/custom-guns-russia-gk-03-compensator-right-handed/
https://4shooters.com/product/ipsc-lab-gk-03-gen-2-vepr12saiga12-ilyin-muzzle-brake.html
If that’s not in the cards, and your post says it’s not due to your statement about quad loading, look into Vang Comp systems.
https://www.vangcomp.com/
Vang is very nice, but it’s a choke & compensator system, whereas the Ilyin GK’s are comp/brakes. Either are very limited on which guns they can be used with. That being said, I’d tell you if you can leverage the GK’s, you’ll have fire hose capability. For example, GK-03 equipped on Dissident’s custom KL-12 Vepr @ 3 gun event:
https://youtu.be/iFzS-e33M98?t=73
Damned moderation filter, if it doesn’t get noticed, I’ll repost.
In case you’re wondering, this is mostly the same as my V 12, with a little variation. I have a better thumb mag release & trigger than his, enhanced bolt hold. Finally, mine’s not had the stock replaced, nor extensive bolt carrier milling work done, yet. Still deciding on whether to go Ti for the BCG or not, before I make the leap. Weight reduction is good, needing custom springs is bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac89EWTZ9G8
Mine is not a comp gun, it’s set up for real world problems.
Maybe it will appear tomorrow, but after waiting 3 hours here’s the links.
https://4shooters.com/product/ipsc-lab-gk-03-gen-2-vepr12saiga12-ilyin-muzzle-brake.html
http://dissidentarms.com/index.php/product/custom-guns-russia-gk-03-compensator-right-handed/
First two are compensator brakes for arms with high bore offset only. Best there is. Bullpup’s, AK/RPK, or some AR based shotguns. For your purposes by your quad load comment, this is what you want instead:
https://www.vangcomp.com/
Vang’s compensator with the best choke in the business. The GK-03 requires special thin walled Briley screw in’s, which are only available through Dissident, if you want a choke that is.
Getting tired, and forgot to mention that the Vang has no real braking. The GK-03’s are comp/brakes, though specific to RH & LH shooting and needing threading dies of M12 x .75 to mount. Carolina Shooters Supply has the dies and annular cutters if you can go that route. Barrel wall thickness will determine whether you need the thin Briley’s or not.
The GK-03 is crazy good, if at all possible, I highly recommend it even over Vang.
Info is very much appreciated. This project shotty will be a house gun. (can’t have too many)
Dissident shotgun is very nice the way they did the safety and magwell. I should have bought a Vepr 12 when they were easy to get.
You’ve given me things to ponder.
thanks
“(can’t have too many)”
Copy that, & happy to help a brother out.
It’s to bad there isn’t a dm/pm system here. If you want one, I know who still has stock, but am quite loathe to post it publicly for reason’s, the run on guns primarily. I want another, if nothing else but for spare parts backups due to the overarching import situation.
If you look around carefully, you can find them NiB, and at the same price I paid a couple of years ago. <- Not at auction's or classified listings, if you catch my meaning. If you're serious, say so, because there's some important caveats you need to know before you dive in and get caught flat footed.
muzzle flash is not minimal because it’s a 9mm.
the author should know that different ammo has different muzzle flash, ranging from a dim orange ball (Winchester PDX) to something like fireworks (Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics) and there is much overlap between brands, models within a brand, caliber, barrel length, and bullet weight within a caliber.
flash is first and foremost a function of brand and model of ammo.
if the comp didn’t make a difference in muzzle flash with the same ammo in the same gun, it’s because… the comp didn’t make a difference.
Hmmm that’s not entirely true. Unless we are talking reloading some ridiculous handloaded cartridge then a 44 Magnum creates much more muzzle flash than a 9mm and from a comped gun it can could affect low light shooting.
Sure ammo plays a part but even hot 9mm wouldn’t create the same flash basic magnum cartridges would.
Isn’t it more of an issue of powder burn rate and barrel length?
Most self-defense loads use flash suppressed powders so flash should be minimal. I’m curious, did the comp change your point of impact at all?
Muzzle flash from a pistol that has negligible recoil, 7.62X25 Norinco brand out of a tt33
just scored 100rds of that for the cz.
I’d like to see qualitative measurements. The MantisX accelerometer has a function to measure recoil and time to return to target. A slow motion camera from the side could be used to measure muzzle rise/angle. I don’t doubt the comps work, but it would be nice to compare them objectively to other designs or see effects of different loads.
Also, while the 115gr loads have less recoil, they have more powder and produce more gas, so the downward force should actually be greater. Some comps will depress the muzzle if a round produces enough gas.
Thats a great idea and is giving some new test parameters. I never considered the Mantisx for that idea.
Might get one of these. My carry gun has a threaded barrel with a thread protector. I’m gonna have the protector on there anyways so may as well put something on there that could help my shooting, even if its a negligible gain in recoil reduction. Better than nothing I suppose.
I really hope one of you guys has Griffin’s Cam Lock QD system for suppressors to review, I haven’t gotten mine to the range for any live fire testing yet, but just swapping the cans around at home the thing feels like a game changer, and I’d like to see someone put it through it’s paces.
You could trim another 1/4 second off your drill times if you didn’t lock your elbows and let your physique do it’s job of absorbing recoil.
Unfortunately I have some bad shoulder injuries and if I dont lock out I can hardly hold the pistol still enough to shoot.
This is the stupidest comment thread I’ve ever seen in the internet.
Get a pistol, install an extended threaded barrel, clamp the frame in a vise, and start doing experiments. Keep this in mind, because I’m going to assume that this is the default condition for all of the hypothetical thought experiments below.
If pistols are gas operated, then it should be possible to attach a compressed gas canister to the muzzle, and cycle the action. (Yes, that would work on a “blowback” action). However, it will NOT work on a tilting barrel locked breech, even with the recoil springs removed. In other words, the pistol will not cycle from gas pressure alone.
Alternatively, plug the barrel and load a blank. There will be gas pressure in the barrel, but the action will not cycle unless the barrel is given rearward motion somehow. The gas pressure is contained within the barrel and locked breech until it slowly leaks out. If you remove the main slide spring, the action still will not cycle as long as the breech is closed and locked.
On the other hand, if you tap the muzzle with a mallet, the barrel will move backwards, the slide will move with the barrel, and then the inertia of the slide will continue to move the slide backwards. In other words, the pistol can be cycled with a sharp impact on the barrel, no gas pressure needed. Depending on the strength of the main slide spring, it might need to be a VERY sharp tap. If you remove the main slide spring, it will open from a much lighter tap.
“If the firearm could be operated by recoil, then I could argue that you could simply cycle the action of the slide by very rapidly pushing and pulling the firearm using the inertia of the slide (imagine taking the slide spring out and reassembling). Unfortunately due to the force of the slide/bolt spring, humans are not strong enough to do this.”
YES, you COULD do that, but the problem has nothing to do with how “strong” humans are, but how *fast* we are. A diesel train engine is certainly “strong” but not fast. Cycling the action like that would require an extremely fast snapping action that humans cannot do. However, yes, we can do it with the main slide spring removed.
“Recoil is a reaction, not a force.”
Ok, if you want to argue about semantics, what would you call the rearward motion imparted to the barrel and slide? Because whatever you want to call it, that motion is what cycles the gun, not the gas pressure in the barrel. As Matt brought up, if the key issue was gas pressure, then the gun should cycle easily with a large suppressor without needing a Nielson device. A suppressor increases gas pressure in the system, but slows the movement of the barrel, causing malfunctions on tilting barrel lockup guns. Guns with fixed barrels, such as a “blowback” action or … FFS, I literally do not know how to refer to an action like an AK when talking to people who insist that EVERY semi-auto is gas operated, and that cartridge cases are ackshully gas pistons. https://pics.me.me/me-says-anything-internet-ackchyually-40015252.png
Anyway, a fixed barrel gun can be operated by gas pressure alone. Plug the barrel, load a blank with the right pressure, and the action will cycle. That’s how a blank-firing adapter works for an AR-15: it clamps over the flash hider, and has a tiny muzzle hole to increase gas back pressure. Likewise, Demolition Ranch plugged a bunch of Hi-Point barrels, and the action still cycled. However, these locked breech tilting action guns will not operate on gas pressure alone. They are cycled by rearward motion of the barrel, which transfers to the slide. I don’t care what you call the force that imparts a rearward motion to the barrel and slide, but it is not “has pressure”.
Ok, if you want to argue about semantics, how about this: how do we distinguish between significantly different operating mechanisms if we call them all “gas operated”? Labeling a Glock or 1911 as “gas operated” does nothing but reduce the precision of our language. If this is how we choose to label and describe things, then we lose the ability to distinguish a Glock’s operation from an AR-15’s operation from an AK’s operation.
Congratulations, you’ve successfully achieved the goals of New Speak. That’s double plus ungood.
I put one of these on my P365xl carry gun with a true precision threaded barrel. The gun stovepipe almost every other round. I take the comp off and it fires just fine. It was a true waste of $50 unless I want to spend even more to get it tuned.