Piers Morgan may wonder why Americans own firearms, but unlike his countrymen, we have a right to do so. And many of us realize that we are our own first responders. Whether it’s an un-armed Brit bobbie or a Pasco County, Florida deputy, Johnny Law will almost never be there in time to protect you and your loved ones from someone who would do you harm.
Take, for instance, the example of a Hudson, Florida mother of four who encountered an intruder on her property over the weekend.
She first called 911 when he was wandering on her property and came to her door. She didn’t recognize him and called police
From WFLA:
That’s when Richards says she noticed the garage door that’s always open had been shut. She screamed, opened the garage door and called 911 again for a second time.
The second call was made at 12:54 in the morning.
“I have a gun pointed and I need the police to show up immediately,” said Richards on the 911 call. “I called 10 minutes ago and nobody has shown up.”
The terrifying scene would continue for 13 more minutes before the first PCSO deputy arrived at the scene at 1:07 in the morning.
Richards can be heard asking dispatch about the deputies estimated time of arrival multiple times.
“They just said you’re priority, they’re coming lights and sirens,” said dispatch.
It took police a total of 26 minutes to arrive, 13 minutes after the more urgent call.
If that sounds excessive, a 2018 study by Stanford University showed that the mean response time for priority one calls — the most urgent — is 24.8 minutes with a median of 8.8 minutes.
Boil it down, and you can see that depending on a law enforcement response to handle a life-or-death situation is wildly optimistic. Police can’t be everywhere and some agencies cover large areas.
According to the county, the recent average response time for such a call is around 10 minutes and 31 seconds. But in this incident, it was 26 minutes.
Richards had to wait two and a half times longer. Richards’ second call described a burglary in progress.
The recent average response time in this situation is six minutes and nine seconds.
Richards waited 13 minutes for help, twice as long.
As one of the woman’s neighbors put it,
“Had she not had a gun and been ready to protect herself or call the neighbors, she might be standing here cause who knows what would happen,” said Mrs. Nieves.
Buy a gun. Keep it loaded. Get training if possible. Home carry if you can. The life you save could be your own.
The intruders lucky. I don’t have that kind of attention span.
Yeah…I don’t have that kind of patience, & more into eliminating the problem so it doesn’t happen again. (a term I learned from the liberals)
The lady was also lucky she didn’t have to use that LCP. Micro .380s are a fairly marginal defense weapon (still much better than nothing). I frequently carry my LCP, but would much prefer a G19, .357 mag., or better yet a shotgun, AR, AK, or SKS if I really had deal with a home invader
the best to determine whether a weapon is powerful enough is to ask yourself if you’d mind getting shot with it. And we know about larger calibers, wound channels, penetration, etc., but she had what she had and it worked
First rule of gunfighting is… bring a gun.
Namen is the most correct… “The first rule in a gunfight is to have a gun”, thinking that was Colonel Cooper?
A .380 ACP’s 200 or so ft. lbs. of muzzle energy certainly is inferior to that of the other firearms you mentioned, but that’s not the only relevant variable, of course. Caliber wars aside, the fact remains that the vast majority of defensive gun uses do not entail actually discharging the firearm.
Even a great many offensive gun uses don’t involve shooting anyone, as the criminal’s gun is unloaded, incorrectly loaded, loaded with the wrong ammunition, or even just broken and inoperable.
The most important self defense factor is to have a gun; any working gun that you can operate. I just wanted to emphasize that point, not that you were actually arguing against it.
I have one of those things and despite being a pretty fair shooter, I have a great deal of trouble making accurate hits with it. I really try hard not to carry the thing.
Is a kick in the pants better than being shot by a .22?
.22 Rifles for home Defense?
It looks like the gun she’s holding is a 9m Ruger LC9, not the LCP.
From the coloration, this looks like the exact model she’s holding:
https://www.ruger.com/products/lc9s/specSheets/3263.html
But it’s hard to tell from the photo. Need to see a closeup of the sights to be sure, or the right side of the gun, as the left side of the two guns looks similar.
I used to have an LC9
I’ve never understood the reasoning for putting such tiny sights on pocket guns. My P238 has decent sights and they don’t make it any harder to carry.
Three most important things when it comes to rapid deescalation. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.
Put some Federal Premium HST Hollow Points in that LCP and keep an extra magazine or two. Learn to fire two rounds close together. Practice at 8-10 steps from a dog food sack or other target close to average torso dimensions, and do so without using the gund sights. Point and fiore QUICKLY at center mass. If you are justified in shooting someone, you are justified in killing them (as long as you don’t keep putting rounds into someone who’s no longer a threat).
I think the choice of a 380 is due to penetration. When you have others in the house less likely for the round to hit someone on the other side of the wall after hitting your target or missing it if your a stormtrooper.
It is not a LCP.. It is a Skye 9mm. It comes in 21 girlie colors. I just bought one for my girlfriend.
Looks more like the LC9 to me
this gun looks just like my Ruger EC9s which I have with me right now. A 9mm should do the job. That’s what most LEOs carry.
This is definitely the teal LCP. The LCP and LC9 are visually similar. In comparison to the LC9, the LCP has more slope at the back of the slide, and fewer vertical grip lines on the rear third of the slide. If you examine this detail, you should be able to make the determination that it’s an LCP.
That is a SCCY 9mm not a 380!
380’s are easily concealed. It’s all in the ammo. Hollow points are good and will give you some stopping power,
With some of the new ammunition in .380 cal, they are as effective as 9 mm and even some .40 cal of just a few years ago. I use either Underwood or Lehigh in my 9 mm for self defense … very expensive. At the range, just FMJ.
Buy some G9 ammo. Turn the wound channel from a .380 into a .45 wound channel. Wicked ammo.
Looks more like a Keltec 32 to me.
I’m totally “old school”—Colt Government M1911A2 with commander hammer, satin nickel finish, a round in the chamber, hammer cocked back, safety on, and ready to rock and roll. Don’t need no stinking new DA semiautos!
Fastest I’ve ever seen the police show up out here is about 15 minutes, and that when I had to defend myself against two plain clothed thugs. Fuzz are the last group to be called… lawyer and family come first.
Lol, if I called my family first they’d probably be at my house in less than 5 min. At that time the scumbag is in for a WORLD OF HURT! We take family pretty serious.
Of course that’s really a moot point as a quick shout could have my wife and 2 oldest boys there to back me up with any number of different combinations of firearms, and their all capable shooters.
If you’re ever in trouble in a large urban area call the fire department, minimum of 4 guys with axes will probably be there in 5 minutes or less.
In some places your be better off calling Jimmy John’s than the police
Not the only report I’ve seen regarding armed citizens holding perps at the scene, awaiting police. But….
How does that work? How do you hold a perp at gunpoint? If the perp is startled and somewhat reluctant to attack at that moment, is there a deadly threat? if the perp tries to flee (after delaying to ascertain the armed citizen’s intention), is there a deadly threat? If you threaten to shoot a perp should that perp try to leave, is that not some form of kidnap? If you are making an alleged “citizen’s arrest”, are you then authorized to use deadly force to detain? Is not pointing a gun at another person an illegal use of deadly force?
I think all are valid questions and worth discussion.
“I think all are valid questions and worth discussion.”
Thanx. Wasn’t being all snarky/cutesy with those questions.
If the situation is so dire as to require shooting the perp and they are dead. The Story is yours to tell…Well After you’ve had a long chat with Counsel. Until then be polite to everyone. Be cooperative but, invoke your 5th Amendment Right to Remain Silent. Request an Attorney Be Present Before and During Questioning. Once the smoke clears you’re on damage control. Regardless of your innocence. Trust NO ONE. Except your Attorney. Regardless of all the hassles you may go through. You’re and You’re Loved Ones are Alive. At the end of the day. That’s what Really Matters.
I understand about the likely process after a fatal shooting, but….holding a person at gunpoint is not quite the same. What leverage do you actually have to keep the perp from leaving?
Sam. The laws are different from state to state. I’ve done the citizens arrest thing. And the first thing I pointed out to the arrested was that in our state, CA, once I informed them of their arrested status if they resisted or ran they added a felony charge to whatever the original charge was.
But if they ran I did not chase or otherwise interfere with them. If they’re just running and not firing bursts from an AK over their shoulders at you they are not a threat. Let them go. The cops can get them later.
Unless you live in a state, Texas maybe, that allows you to shoot a fleeing crook you just let them go.
“Unless you live in a state, Texas maybe, that allows you to shoot a fleeing crook you just let them go.”
That is the puzzlement. Just amazing that any perp would not simply walk away. The only way I can see how holding a perp at gunpoint works is the perp is afraid of a crazy gun owner. Then comes the flurry of law suits regarding use of deadly force to coerce a person who is not a deadly threat.
Why TF would you citizen arrest anyone? Not even a little surprised honestly.
bd. For over 20 years I worked 2 jobs. Single father. I had a primary job and a secondary job. The second job was usually security. Whenever I accept pay for a job I do what the job requires.
Do I need to elaborate?
If you position yourself such that perp has to go through you to escape, then if he attempts to do so you can shoot him until he desists. If you shoot a fleeing perp in the back in TX, he’d better have over $500 of your property in his pocket.
Judge Roy Bean fan?
@LarryinTX Only in daylight, once it gets dark, the rules change to favor the property owner. I am NOT advocating the use of deadly force, I am just stating the “rules of engagement”. Taking someone’s life is never easy, even when they make it necessary. Deescalated, there is always a better way to eliminate the threat, it’s just sometimes there is not a lot of other options.
https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-9-42.html
A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41 ; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other’s imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
Definitely valid questions that I suspect will have WILDLY different answers based on where you live.
Here in Indiana we have pretty strong castle doctrine/stand your ground laws so the ‘uninvited guest’ would be VERY wise to mind his P’s and Q’s until the police arrive. Shooting them as they’re fleeing is a major no-no so if he was a gambling man he could attempt to run. Making a sudden move while being covered by a drawn weapon around here though would be an EXTREMELY chancy gamble.
Sam I Am:
You have as much authority to hold a perp at gun point as they give you. If they comply great just watch out for any aggressive movements or behaviors. This is when your attention must be full on. Don’t get tunnel vision on the perp only. He may not be alone. This is were you come to the part were you made your peace with yourself about shooting another human being if necessary and hesitation can get you killed. If they run let them go but, maintain eyes on for as long as possible to ensure they have left the area. You may possibly see the house or car they escape to. Watch to ensure they don’t circle around and return. Just remember Your life and the lives of your loved ones is what matters. Let Situational Awareness and the Instinct of Survive be you guide.
“You have as much authority to hold a perp at gun point as they give you.”
That’s what I’m thinking; fear of the crazed gun owner.
Pointing a gun at someone is not the use of deadly force. Contrary to what some internet rants argue, you do not need justification to shoot someone in order to draw a gun- it’s not a samurai sword that needs to be cleaned in blood or whatever the trope is. Ask police officers who draw their guns on a regular basis without having immediate justification to fire. And yes, police are afforded more practical leeway to do so than your average handgun owner, but the legal issues are typically the same; that you need have a reasonable fear of serious bodily harm. The difference is that in order to shoot, that fear must be immediate or imminent in most states. If you get to a point where someone surrendered, you probably have pushed back the ‘imminent’ issue.
Holding someone at gunpoint while waiting minutes on end for police is very perilous for the reasons you pointed out, though. What if he attacks? What if he doesn’t? How do you know when he’s going to? If in a similar situation I might be tempted to tell him to GTFO and let uniformed police try and track him down rather than risk waiting who knows how long for them to arrive. In the alternative, have him lay down and make it clear that if he gets up, you’re going to shoot him (and justify it because you have to assume he’s going to attack you).
Curious.
If simply pointing a gun at someone is not the use of deadly force, why is it considered justified to shoot such a person posing an imminent threat, even though that person has not shot at you?
Around these parts, “brandishing” is a matter of irresponsibly presenting a gun in a manner that causes fear in the people around. From what we are told, brandishing would be charged if a person merely unholsters in public, and walks about with the gun pointed only at the ground. Allegedly, simple inadvertent uncovering of a holstered concealed handgun is not considered “brandishing”.
This is why you eliminate their testimony all together. Real simple. Especially if they are facing you when the first shot is fired. Then don’t stop until the threat is eliminated.
“This is why you eliminate their testimony all together.”
Isn’t that a rather extreme form of witness intimidation?
Easy to say it until it’s time to do it. Classic tough guy. I’ve taken lives. It’s not easy even when it’s a foreign fighter shooting an AK at you. I still vomited the first time I offed an insurgent. I can’t imagine how hard it would be to shoot an American. And that’s with the stigma of killing erased from my psyche.
I witnessed a public assault of a woman by her boyfriend in broad daylight a few months ago. By the time I u-turned and called the cops he had her on the ground kicking her in the face and stomach. I pulled a gun on him. I made him lie down with his feet and hands crossed faced away from me. I told him if he moved at all i would kill him, not shoot him. Kill him. I meant it. But if he had made a move on me i still would have hesitated. Maybe a fraction of a second but hesitation nonetheless. You have no idea what you’d do.
There is no moral equivalence between a soldier using deadly fore an an armed Citizens using deadly force.
No offense but an armed Citizen, who drops a thug, who is meaning them harm , is not the same as what you did. The Citizen knows the person in front of them is an evil man, where you shot somebody because a government told you to. The people you engaged were protecting themselves from foreigner invaders.
It is the same as how a veteran, who has honor, would never say their government employment had anything positive to do with protecting a Citizens’ rights, because that is lie.
A combat veteran from a combat zone, is appreciated by those close to him for being able to drop any person, who is a threat to the man next to him.
You act like this person was innocent and not a home invader. I do know exactly what I’d do in that situation. And my shoes would stay clean too.
We’re u out of Ft. Carson too? I went 173rd out of Bamberg, DE to IRQ and 4ID out of Carson to AFG, twice.
The law are often clear, but the nature of the enforcment will change from state to state, county to county and prosecutor to prosecutor.
Young female victim, rural area, multiple calls to cops, supportive media: She wouldn’t be prosecuted.
“Young female victim, rural area, multiple calls to cops, supportive media: She wouldn’t be prosecuted.”
Under the questions, I suppose, is the theme that I am not that trusting of “the legal system”. Always trying to think like an anti-gun crusading DA (and police).
Sam I Am,
As others stated, those are all good and important questions.
Here is my personal opinion:
Let’s start with the basics that likely apply in most jurisdictions if you are the aggressor/attacker:
(1) If you display a firearm in a threatening manner without pointing it at anyone, that is brandishing.
(2) If you point a firearm at someone without pulling the trigger and threaten that someone, that is aggravated assault or felonious assault.
(3) If you shoot at someone (whether or not your bullets hit the victim), that is attempted murder (or murder outright if the victim dies).
Now, if a home invader does any of those three things, you would have a credible fear of imminent great bodily harm or death and be justified to use any level of force, up to and including deadly force. That means you would be legally justified to brandish, point a firearm at your home invader, and/or shoot at your home invader as long as they are a credible, imminent threat.
So, the relevant question is, “When does a home invader cease being a credible, imminent threat?” I would argue that a home invader is a credible, imminent threat of great bodily harm or death until they are either incapacitated (handcuffed/bound, unconscious, paralyzed, or dead) or out of your home. A home invader who has “surrendered” (e.g. lying on the floor spread-eagle) could bounce up and be landing devastating blows on you in less than two seconds if you are standing in the same room. Similarly, a home invader who runs away from you could simply be running toward an improvised melee weapon or to confuse you before turning to run toward you.
Therefore, in my opinion, a home owner is legally justified to hold a home invader at gunpoint until the home invader is incapacitated or out of the home.
Disclaimer: I am not an attorney and my opinions are not legal advice.
Thanx.
Understand your observations. While I have questions, it may be that they aren’t the real question at all. With refinement, maybe my questions are really just one: if a perp can simply walk away, what is the point of holding the suspect? Could understand the idea if it were clear that once you have a perp detained, you would be justified in shooting to prevent fleeing. Otherwise, attempting to hold the perp is truly an empty threat, dependent on the perp being afraid you don’t care about the law.
Fear is and has always been the great intimidater. Criminals use fear to intimidate their victims. Police use fear to intimidate criminals and the populous to comply. As does every form of government. Do as I say or face the consequences. Why should it be any different for a victim to use fear to intimidated the criminal. The very use of fear may be the one thing that keeps you alive. Fear of consequences makes people cautious. Only when people lack that fear do they either become Criminals or Truly Free.
The most important “point” of holding someone at gunpoint is to minimize your response time if he attacks you. If he begins to stand, you begin to shoot, not begin to look around for where you set down your gun. Where I run into trouble is determining how to act when LE arrives on the scene, particularly if I am convinced the perp is actually dangerous, like may kill me in an instant in order to get a shot at the cop. The cop will demand that I disarm, I will appear to be the threat.
“The most important “point” of holding someone at gunpoint is to minimize your response time if he attacks you.”
Why not just hustle the perp out the door/off the property? Would rather the perp be gone, than try to successfully intimidate to lie on the ground. If they don’t need shooting, they need to be gone.
That’s cause cops are too busy harrasing innocent people for a seat belt or some other made up bullshit I mean pull me over run me ticket get on your way no they wanna search they wanna sit in their car drinking their coffee and 45 min later your on your way with a ticket so of course for serious crimes it takes them that long cause that ticket is more important then someone’s life
If lethal force is initially authorized, it would remain so for the duration of the encounter. If the threat attempts to break contact you’re down to a judgement call: Are they fleeing or are they attempting to gain tactical advantage? Obviously, any person witnessing a felony in progress can effect a citizens arrest. If the felony in question puts any innocent person at risk of imminent serious bodily harm or death, lethal force is authorized. Again, a retreating perpetrator presents a judgement call. Then there is the so called “fleeing felon rule”: If a reasonable person perceives that the escape of a violent felon is likely to lead to the death or serious injury of another, lethal force is authorized.
I’m not a lawyer, and your local situation may vary, but if whatever made you pull your gun in the first place was justifiable, you’re fine holding that person at gun point. Personally if they attempted to flee, baring them having already seriously injured or killed someone I’d be apt to let them.
Consider though that once a person surrenders to your threat of lethal force you’re likely in a position to gain positive control over them, whether it’s proneing them out or having someone else bind them, or whatever works in the situation. As far as I’m concerned, and obviously each situation is unique to some degree, if I take someone at gun point and they don’t either immediately flee or disarm and prone out on command they are highly likely to be shot. If I’m drawing a fun on someone I expect I may have to shoot them, that holds true until they are incapacitated or adequately restrained.
Thanx; ‘preciate those observations.
Make the invader drop his pants to his ankles, tighten his belt (if he has one) to the tightest notch, then lie on his stomach with his hands behind his back. If he decides to try to get up and attack, that would likely provide you with an extra 3-4 seconds response time, at least.
Valid and worth discussing.
The reality is that it all depends on where you are.
As in what state, since different states have different laws regarding.
1) your duty to retreat
2) whether you can shoot someone who is fleeing.
Most states have no duty to retreat inside the home.
Most states do have a duty to retreat outside the home. If you can do it in complete safety.
In most states if the felon gets up and moves towards you, you would be legally able to use deadly force.
But also, in most states, if the felon gets up and tries to flee, you would not be able to shoot them legally.
Some states DO allow you to shoot a “fleeing felon”.
Although I’d personally have a hard time justifying that ethically. If the guy is running away, the threat is gone and the ethical justification to use lethal force is gone. But that’s just me.
“The reality is that it all depends on where you are.”
For me, the varying laws make this a matter of “why bother”? If the perp is disadvantaged to the point of no longer being an immediate threat, why not just chase them off? Seems the only hope of enforcing your detainment attempt is that the perp is convinced you are a crazy gun nut and just might shoot anyway. Once they get over that notion, they will run, leaving you to contemplate the legal liabilities of taking further action.
According to the laws in NC…. We have the Castle Domain law. You break into my house, I can shoot you. BUT…. If you turn to leave or flee… I CAN NOT shoot your or even attempt to hold you until the police arrive. There is no such thing as Citizens Arrest.
I know this is true because the same thing happened to me. I inadvertently became involved in a domestic violence against incident involving my neighbor and his wife. I was on the phone with the police for almost 10 minutes when he decided to come after me. I held him at gunpoint for another 10 minutes before the cops showed up. I live 2 miles out of the city limits in a built up residential area. It doesn’t matter where you live or the situation, when you need the cops they won’t be there. You have to be able to defend yourself.
Response time sounds about right. Every once in awhile I would be on top of a hot call when it was dispatched. Most of the time I had a nice little run. Even at 10-18. Of course, response time would often be improved if people would yield to your emergency equipment. Many don’t. In the meantime I’ll give the same advice I’ve given hundreds of times. Acquire a firearm. Learn to use it. Keep it loaded and at hand. You are responsible for your own safety. LEOs are historians and janitors. We write down what happened and clean up the mess.
That’s good advice, and I’m stealing that bit about cops being historians and janitors. Nothing against cops at all, they do a necessary, ugly dangerous job and most do it the best they can, but that doesn’t change the underlying truth; it’s highly unlikely that police are going to show up and save they day during a seriously violent encounter. When death or grevious harm are in the offing, encounters tend to last seconds, not minutes.
Good for her, too bad it took so long for LE to show, must’ve coffee and doughnut time…
I live so far out that it’d take deputies 30-45min to get here…
WI, there’s not a doughnut shop in my entire county and I don’t eat sweets anyway. Well, Mom’s pecan pie at Thanksgiving. Anyway, still took a little while to respond. What do you do for a living? I’m sure there’s a stereotype for it.
You British? It’s spelled “donut” in the U.S. of A.
And you can go pound sand…
https://grammarist.com/spelling/doughnut-donut/
Scots Irish. Since Jamestown, VA. I guess some things you can’t shake off.
National Doughnut Day
The timeliness of this thread couldn’t be better:
“National Doughnut Day 2019: Here are 8 places to get free doughnuts, deals in Utah”
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900074207/national-doughnut-day-2019-krispy-kreme-dunkin-donuts-walmart-free-deals-utah.html
Thanks Ragner. Looks like I had the correct spelling all along. Thought I did, but no point in arguing with ignorance.
Gadsen. We Scots-Irish love to argue. 😉
Oh, what’s the matter snowflake, did I offend your sensibilities…???
Suck it up buttercup…And here I thought that you were some kind of badass tough guy…
Yea he’s been a bit edgy lately. Someone must’ve ran his dog over.
WI & BD, I’m not edgy at all. And not some kind of tuff guy. Had my ass kicked before. Kicked some ass too. But at least I did something. I hear nothing but theory from you guys. Anyone can read a magazine article and regurgitate it.
Also, what’s this snowflake thing? I live in Florida. I’ve seen snow a few times, but the context you use escapes me. Red, my last dog, a red nose pit (go figure) died of old age. A great dog. Barked but wouldn’t bite a fried pork chop. Had a dog run over once. That was Blue. ’84. Broke my heart. Another pit. He wanted to eat everybody except me.
Calm down buddy. You pretty much just confessed to being edgy.
“Dunkin’ Donuts”, arrogant asshole. I’ll pound your mother, wife, sister and daughter instead of sand.
How do you like them apples?
I know you are referring to someone else, but that’s a franchise name… not how the correct spelling is. LOL. Dictionaries have it listed as Doughnuts, but because of slang, most say Donuts is used. Personally, I prefer donuts… it’s less letters and I’m down with ebonics and grammatical changes to the languages throughout history, yo.
Where I live 30 minute response times are the norm, but that’s because a department of 30 or so deputies have 495 sq mi to cover 24/7/365 between them in a county with 63,000 people and over a thousand miles of paved road and about that of gravel. I don’t think they get much time to eat doughnuts. These guys often have to respond alone to dangerous calls with backup so far away that I’d be sweating bullets doing what they do. When your job includes driving like a race car driver over dark narrow roads into the middle of nowhere, climbing gates to head down long dark driveways to intervene in situations in a county where 80+% of the households have guns, and you’re willing to keep doing it night after night, my hat’s off to you.
Florida woman put the fear of God in Florida man.
This ones a few days old: https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-polk/woman-shoots-kills-husband-in-self-defense-after-fight-over-online-video-game-polk-sheriff-says
This one’s a wife ND on her husband: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article230078199.html
When seconds count…cops are minutes away…
sound cheesy…until it happens to YOU
Drunk/High a$$hat trying to kick down my door at 4:04 am. I watched the door with my carry gun waiting to see if the deadbolt would give while wife called 911 and moved family to the bedroom closet and armed herself with a rifle. He came and left twice. 45 min later the police found him passed out on the grass. I’m glad the deadbolt held but he dented the hell out of the door and broke my peep hole. Try to keep a bigger gun for home defense handy.
Should’ve just fired a shotgun through the door at him. Lol!
No. Shooting through a door turns what would have been self defense into an unjustified attack. As long as the would be intruder is on the other side of the door, he isn’t an imminent threat. That changes if he gets in and you aren’t sure you can handle him without shooting. Then, whatever it takes to protect yourself and your family is legal.
and go to prison for it.
Woosh.
That was the sound of the joke going right over your head.
I believe everyone’s favorite ‘creepy uncle’ made that statement about firing a shotgun through the door at a threat.
I got it, Vic, these guys probably aren’t old enough.
That is pretty funny. Not a joke I was personally familiar with. Honestly, it’s not a joke at all, because that moron Biden was serious about it. Sad form of a disability, which should not be laughed at and rather assisted 😉
Never shoot through a closed door! There are legal ramifications, plus you could hurt or kill someone you didn’t intend on shooting. You warn them, telling the individuals that you’ve got a gun. When/if they open the door, they’ve ignored the warning, & you have the right to shoot.
I would’ve undone that deadbolt.
He broke your peephole that sounds painful.
You a bad man, boss. 🙂
I guess I have been lucky. The first time I called 911 for a police response to a vehicle break-in behind my apartment, the police were there in 38 seconds. (San Francisco, 30 some odd years ago.) The second time wa when a very stoned individual was at my door, claiming that he had left his shoes at my house. (Not.) He had no shirt, shoes or jacket, and it was in the 50s. Cops were there in a couple of minutes, and took him to a nice warm cell to come down off of whatever he was on. (Unsurprisingly, when he was actually arrested, he knew the drill.)
if it had been my wife or me the cops will be just writing up a report of a dead intruder
That was a , , , ,looooong , , , 15 minutes I betcha
I’ll bet!
So do you engage in small talk in the meantime or hold a steely-eyed death stare the whole time? Lol!
Alternate scowling and death threats with smiling and talking about the weather and local sports.
Might as well screw with them.
I like adopting the “I’m not trapped here with you, you’re trapped here with me approach”. You know, arguing out loud with yourself, in two distinctly different voices, about whether to call the cops or have them for dinner…
Shouting to no one they can see to bring out the gimp…
Shouting “Heehaw! We got us a another one!”
Discussing whether the intruder looks healthy enough to keep as a slave or should just be turned over to the police…
Yelling for someone to Google the black market value of a human liver while inquiring about their blood type and history of drinking and hepatitis…
Speaking to an unseen person to tell the people in the basement they are about to have company…
Musing out loud whether there is room for them in the basement cell or if you should take them to the barn…
Complementing their completion while asking detailed questions about their measurements…
Suggesting the hogs will eat well tonight…
Declaring that you finally have someone to train the dogs on…
Asking if there is room in the hole you dug last night for another body…
Can one imagine what that dirtbag could have done in those 13 minutes if she didn’t have a gun? The police exist to arrest criminals and draw chalk lines around the victims body and investigate the crime. I prefer the police draw chalk lines around the perpetrator’s body. Buy a gun, learn how to shoot it, carry it everywhere, even in your home. When seconds count, the police are minutes away.
Uh, MB, we don’t draw chalk lines. Never have. You’ve been watching too many Law & Order reruns.
@Gadsden Flag, of course you would take it literally. And believe it or not that’s how it’s still done, maybe not where you live.
MB, no we don’t, anywhere. Ever. Chalk, tape, whatever. That myth started with old movies when it was considered bad form to show dead bodies on the silver screen. We take pictures of the bodies in place then have them taken to the medical examiner. After that; what’s the point of a chalk outline? That’s just silly.
You mean like this? https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/crime-scene-gm114421319-16540960
Bullshit. I seen them chalk lines since Joe Friday, you can’t just change the damn RULES!
jros may have a point. Criminal should take heed!
” he laughed and said the cops aren’t coming then he made a furtitive move as he advanced towards me and I shot him as I was in fear of my life”
What would be the response time if one of our political overlords dialed 911?
About the same. Unless you have Secret Service, or similar protection. Who you are doesn’t change geographic distance, or the time/space laws of physics.
Maybe even more, because they live in gated communities all the way in the back where the prestige houses reside… Besides, here’s hoping anyone trying to break into a house while a senator is home, is just trying to refresh the tree of liberty anyways.
Those high end gated communities have their own private security that will stop and question anyone who doesn’t live there long before they get close to the houses. I was talking to a limo driver a while back and he said he would even get pulled over on the way to pick up an executive to take to the airport and questioned about who he was there for before being allowed near the homes.
Of course if an ordinary citizen wanted that kind of security in their town it would be discriminatory somehow.
Last year, where I live, a husband bought his wife a pistol for protection and then left on a business trip. Before he returned, a burglar broke into their home. The wife held him at gunpoint while waiting for police to arrive. The burglar spent that time doing his best not to give her a reason to shoot him.
The incident ended well. The burglar was arrested; the cops didn’t shoot the wife; and the only charges filed were against the burglar. It turned out that this burglary was the last of a string he had committed in the neighborhood.
26 minutes is a pretty shit response time, particularly once the call has become a priority. But many places have very sparse police presence, whether due to budget constraints, low density residence, or the fact that it’s hard to recruit qualified police now. Having a gun, even a itty bitty little one, is sure better than nothing. Although the one she is holding would not be my choice for a home defense weapon (maybe she only wants one and she decided on one easy to carry).
I know she’s maybe trying to spread awareness so I won’t say no to talk to the media at all but I would avoid waving the gun around for the interview. I hope (and doubt) she talked to a lawyer first either way though.
From an aerial view of Pasco County, 26 minutes seems like they were taking their sweet time. But who knows, would be nice to know a more specific location, without being invasive of her privacy of course. A close by street crossing possibly? And the pasco county sheriff’s office.
And yea, I agree about the waving of the gun. But, it does look like she has a +1 mag? Not sure about those LCP Micro’s. Assuming that is the case, 6 +1 in the chamber +1 in an extension is a good amount of .380 in close quarters to drop a threat.
In CA I had a metal screen on my studio apt. Door was open, but only cracked to let some fresh air in, and both the deadbolt and key lock were locked on the screen, which was held in by a metal frame built into the wall. Back to the door at my desk/home theater setup. Crackhead jiggles the screen door handle, which was very audible. I jumped up and gave her some universal language, a 12ga chambering it’s first buckshot shell, and swung the door open the rest of the way so quick she froze instantly. I had the shotgun in my left hand behind the door, so she couldn’t see it, but I know she heard it. I asked what the fuck she was doing, and she tried mumbling something about her car being broke down and if she could use a phone. I asked if she tried to open the door, and she denied it saying she was just about to knock. I said something like “no you can’t use my phone, but I’ll call the police for you and they can help you”. Then, this crazy bitch mumbled some other lies and somehow thought it was a good idea to ask me not to call the cops because she had a history of burglary, not sure the exact term that was used. That’s when the shotgun came out and I told her to start walking, then acted like I was going to open the screen and make her leave. Before I even extended my hand it was like a cockroach scattering when the lights came on. She fucken bolted out of the complex, and I let neighbors know to be on the lookout. Called the cops, they said they passed her coming up (she’s a crackhead, why wouldn’t she be walking down the street in plain view?) and they were off to find her. Never had an issue after that in my complex for the two years I was there. Neighbors loved that my apt was the first one closest to the street for some reason… that, and I was more help to them than our landlord.
Wow! B.D. you’re a hero! You scared away a female crack head from behind a locked door. O.K., it was a screen door, but she heard you rack your shotgun. That’s something! And all your neighbors were so thankful that you kept them safe for two years. Bet you were the founder of the feast every holiday. Kick down a door. Locked and loaded. Expecting to to find an armed felon behind it. Then we’ll talk.
Yeah bro? You are edgy as fuck. I have had plenty of other scenarios, just thought this was funny enough to share.
Seems as if your edginess makes you a hypocrite too. Guessing you were a red coat who took the kings shillings? I was Army, myself… not worth bragging about fighting oil wars Iraq and drug wars in Afghanistan, nor the rest of my experiences both before and after those events to measure dicks with someone like you. We could talk about kicking doors in all day, but you should probably just chill the fuck out a bit.
bai edge.
You boys go to your rooms, right now!! I am going to call your mommies.
YOU’RE NOT MY REAL DAD!
BD, don’t hit the crack pipe right becore you type… California, Lol, they are probably all like that.
I saw a previous comment and just sparked this event in my head. Gave me a chuckle. Awkward event to explain, sorry if it dragged out. But yea, had my fare share of run ins with addicts in VA, PA, CA, and CO. Drunks too. Most times, drunks were worse.
Hold him at Gun point, if you can tie him with rope or Zip ties, do a quick pat for weapons. .
But if “he” trys to run off, or attack just shoot in the knee cap, or his foot, he was being a Threat.. you neutralized that threat.
Good lord I hope you don’t own a gun.
Disbelief, that’s the truth. Ralph3’s advice was some of the most stupid I’ve heard. I’d probably arrest both parties in that situation.
Wow.. I’m afraid to ask where you live or what kind of training you think you have.
You wouid be facing some serious charges for intentionally crippling someone. The key words are premeditated and stupid. The correct statement is “To stop the threat” and in her case, as The Armed Citizen had illustrated for years is that sometimes the mere presence of a gun is enough to stop the threat.
Stun Gun or Taser Count?? 😉
Better than a Shotgun. .
Ha ha i always shoot the gun out of the perps hand
No to all of that. Legally, shooting to cripple or wound… lawdy lawdy are you in a mess of trouble. Practically, you’ll get yourself killed first trying to ‘zip tie’ them at gunpoint.
Consider: a huge advantage of a firearm is that it projects force over distance. The moment you close within striking distance of someone while you are holding them at gunpoint, you’re giving up that advantage. They could attack you, push the gun to the side, or even disarm you and use your own gun against you. You should never approach a potential threat to restrain them while you are alone and holding them at gunpoint. Police sometimes have to do it without backup (shit happens) but at least can put their gun back into a good retention holster and have quick access to less lethal options if a fight develops short of deadly force.
Ralphy boy watches WAY TO MUCH TV and believes it’s real. My guess Interweb Troll.
Up yours Darkman Troll!
That’s what I always do. Unfortunately, my aim isn’t that good, so I compensate by 2 to center mass to slow him down a bit while I get close enough to kneecap him. That’s worked every time I tried it.
ps//that’s not the truth!
“Piers Morgan may wonder why Americans own firearms, but unlike his countrymen, we have a right to do so.”
The Brits have a right to do so, too. They’re humans beings. Try to remember that governments don’t ‘give’ us our rights.
Love the gunslinging shaka brah pose.
For those wondering, I live in Florida. .
I wonder how different the comments would be if she was holding a Hi Point or a North American Arms revolver?
For those that don’t know it was a 22 caliber handgun that was used to murder over 30 people at Virginia Tech.
I would have prefered to carry my ruger p89, during my college days. But it’s easier to conceal my beretta 21A.
Or you can always “back pack” a take down rifle.
Nah, ONE of the 2 guns at Va Tech was a .22. The other was a 9mm or a .40 as I recall.
Wikipedia….
Virginia Tech Attacks
“The shootings occurred in two separate incidents. The first incident was in West Ambler Johnston Hall, a residence hall where Seung-Hui Cho killed two students. The second incident was in Norris Hall, an academic building on the opposite side of the campus where the other 31 deaths, including that of Cho himself, and all the nonlethal injuries, occurred. Cho used two pistols during the attacks: a .22-caliber Walther P22 semi-automatic handgun and a 9 mm semi-automatic Glock 19 handgun.[4] “
“the mean response time for priority one calls — the most urgent — is 24.8 minutes with a median of 8.8 minutes.”
That’s an interesting stat. If the numbers were a textbook bell curve, the mean and median would be about the same. So exactly half of the responses were less than 8.8 minutes.
But the other half? I’d guess that there has to be a modest number of 45 min. to 1.5 hour wait times in the mix in order to pull the average way over to the slow side from 8.8 minutes.
“Mean”, “Median”, “Average” are all the same thing, just different words. Check any modern high school text book. And stuff on the internet. And newspapers. And blogs. And…
Don’t make it out like it’s science, or something.
Wrong, and check the internet link below.
Yes, Mean and Average is the same. Median is quite different. And if median were the same as mean and average, then how is it possible that in article above the median is 8.8 min. but the mean is 24.8. That would be impossible if what you say is true.
https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-median-and-vs-average-mean/
“Mean is independent of the position of the data points, but the median is calculated using the position. [or time in this case]
• Mean is heavily affected by outliers while the median is not affected.”
Thanks for the info, but…
My ridicule apparently wasn’t sufficiently entertaining, thus misunderstood.
Or look at Wikipedia,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median
The table at the very top gives an example of the difference.
I realize I’m being perhaps repetitive, but again I publically endorse the 1999 book; “Dial 911 and Die: The Shocking Truth About The Police protection Myth” by Richard Stevens. This explodes and debunks the myths about restraining orders, police response time, and considerably more. Dial 911 and Die can be ordered via JPFO, Inc. at http://www.jpfo.org.
It’s also available for online viewing at You Tube.
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
Get armed, get trained, carry daily.
Long live the republic!
Some have opined that the firearm she was using looks like it was a Ruger LCP. To me it appears to be a Beretta Pico.
Okay, I went to both Ruger’s and Beretta’s website after enlarging the picture. That is the LCP
when you call the police about an intruder, ALWAYS tell them that you just shot the intruder, and they will get there faster
Good trigger discipline for the photo.
I have a 9mm loaded with hollow points. And I keep right where I can reach it. If my dogs bark at night I know something or someone is outside and close enough to the house for them to hear. That is when my Moma Bear mode kicks in and I investigate and am not noticed while I do it. I don’t let the dogs out until I check all points of house. Then I let them out and I stand on the back porch with light off, this way I don’t have to adjust my eyes and I can still see. I leave one dog inside and take two outside. I know their barks and their motions and alerts. so I wait a few and if it’s all clear, I go back in. But my gun and my dogs are my first line of defense.
For anyone who says an LCP is inaccurate, you haven’t actually tried shooting it. A group of us, including one person who hadn’t shot a handgun in 3 years, were scoring on a 10in target in target at 80 ft, consistently, using the crappy sites.
People need to understand government secures your “rights”. It doesn’t protect you.
“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men,” The Declaration
It does this by punishing the offender. If a man wakes in the middle of the night and decides to murder his family with an assault handsaw, government cannot prevent it. It is foolish to think government protects us. government then punishes the murderer.
It is our duty to protect ourselves. Like the old saying goes, when seconds count the police are only 26 minutes away.
I’m a female and the LCP is one of the oy guns that fits comfortably in my hands. I have shot many types of guns but the LCP is the only one that has been comfortable. I do have a lazer site on mine though, mostly because I know if I am nervous, my aim will be off. It’s one thing to shoot in a range or hunting but totally different I this type situation.
That’s a brave woman with a lot of patience! The intruder’s lucky she didn’t kill him! I encourage you all to responsibly protect yourselves. I took a CPL course years ago & im glad I did! The course teaches you about the laws, gun safety, etc. I hope I never have to use a gun for defense but if I do, I’ll be ready!
It could be a .380 or a 9mm. A bad guy can’t tell by looking down the hole in the front of the gun. Just saying…