The quote of the day is presented by Guns.com.
Earlier this week, three American women and six of their children were murdered in northern Mexico when their vehicles were attacked by drug cartel members.
Some in the legacy media have cited a tweet by the family as expressing support for more gun control laws in America.
Want to help? Focus on lowering Drug Consumption in U.S. Want to help some more? Stop the ATF and Gun Law loopholes from systematically injecting high powered assault weapons to Mexico… Please help ☝️@realDonaldTrump https://t.co/wqwfmqhPC1
— LeBaron (@AlexLebaron1) November 5, 2019
But other members of the family see the murders as evidence that disarming Americans is the last thing that should happen after the attack.
‘I don’t know where you’re standing on the whole (idea of) trying to take away the guns in America right now, but I say fight for those guns,’ she said.
‘These things are happening here in Mexico because people can’t protect themselves because by law they’re not allowed to own these guns.
‘So since the government isn’t doing their job of protection in the way that they should, these cartels can just wreak havoc and the people are left defenseless.
‘So I say hold onto your guns, people.’
Left wing “logic”…
Women and children killed by drug cartel in Mexico…..disarm American citizens who are not criminals.
American children killed in schools….don’t allow and/or disarm in school security officers and disarm American citizens who are not criminals.
Conclusion: the American left is for drug cartels and criminals and against American citizens.
Now why could that be???
Leftists don’t generally think their positions through very well.
Or they are trying to exacerbate the problem, in order to finally get the gun confiscation they all truly want.
Or instead of confiscation, it might simply be a neutering of the RKBA. Here in CA, we can own guns like most of the country, but the carry, permitting, storage, and transport requirements are getting stricter and stricter. I no longer go to the local gun range for practice…I go out to the desert for privacy and the ability to use any of my guns as I please, including simple holster drill practices that are prohibited at the ranges.
Thus the term Leftard for the mental illness of the Left. The failure to be able to think or reason but only to do the same failed things over and over and somehow expect a different result.
Leftists simply don’t tend to think at all.
Do you mean what it would have like in the 19th century if some simple “progressive” had said, “Indians are coming, round up the guns of the settlers, we don’t want to make them mad”?
It’s even worse:
Women and children killed by drug cartel in Mexico where guns are banned – ban guns in the USA too, so only criminals will have them!
If the left didn’t have double standards they would have none
You have to be terminally stupid, or willfully ignorant, to think that banning “assault weapons” here will stop the cartels down there. They can get whatever kind of military-grade weaponry they desire from any number of rogue nations around the world (think North Korea). Not just AK’s with the giggle switch, but RPG’s, body armor, etc.
Since Mexico already has such bans, they are a perfect example of why such a ban does not work to reduce crime.
Sometimes I think the Left looks at the results of such bans and thinks, “Nyet! Ban working as planned.”
They also got the leftover arms from every conflict in South and Central America. Obama and the ATF only sent them a tiny fraction f their arms.
But they get their financing from here. The best way to stop that is legalize drugs in America. Then the cartels will be powerless as ordinary companies here start manufacturing the drugs, under existing US regulations for purity and safety. Drugs of all types would then be made in factories with standard procedures and ingredients. Labels would indicate dose, as with prescription meds. All of that would eliminate the overdose problem. Intravenous drugs could be packed in auto injectors eliminating the issue of disease spread by sharing needles. Drug factories would provide more jobs here. Drug prices would come down enabling addicts to support their habit on a dead end job reducing crime. Legalization is a win all around.
” The best way to stop that is legalize drugs in America. ”
Has it occurred to you they will finance themselves in other illicit ways or do you think they will get real jobs? Are we prepared to legalize kidnapping to take the profit out of that too? Once you tax the hell out of legal narcotics won’t there still be a market for untaxed drugs which are cheaper? Yeah, that’s happening now.
How do you feel about Fentinyl being legalized for recreational purposes? Heroin? Coke?
Would taxing these dangerous drugs be worth the lives ruined or is that just someone else’s problem? The “we are all adults and can do what we want” argument meets the reality of what drugs do to families and communities with all of us bearing the price paid.
Get back to us when you’ve lost a loved one to opiods and tell us how making it all legal and easy to buy would have made all the difference.
The only way to deal with this is force. They don’t respect hugs and the Mexican government is slowly learning that. They will need to remove their spineless president first.
It’s not either/or. It’s both/and. The economic engine of illicit drug trading is far stronger than any force we can bring to bear. Anything that disrupts that engine makes all other efforts more effective.
It’s true that the criminal activity won’t just disappear — at worst they’d become like the mafia is now in the US, but that would be far, far better than the situation now, where half of Mexico is ruled by warring criminal fiefdoms.
Plus, we’ll lose people to drug addictions either way. We can keep doing it the way we’ve been doing it — by jailing the wrong people and supercharging the cartels’ ability to visit violence on everyone — or we could attack the root of the cartel problem and *maybe* also alleviate the drug-abuse problem too.
Didn’t we hear all these arguments about alcohol prohibition? When was the last shootout between Anheuser-Busch and Miller? Are there still Italian and Irish mobsters making money on kidnappings now the illegal alcohol money is gone?
Let’s face it, war on human nature (some drugs) is doomed to be lost and wastes more human lifes, families and resources than drugs misuse itself.
I personally don’t use anything stronger than beer, but it is my opinion that the state has no mandate to dictate what citizens drink, snort, smoke or inject.
The US government sends them quite a significant fraction of their arms, albeit indirectly. That’s because the US government is a major supplier of arms to the (notoriously corrupt) Mexican government, which then reliably ‘leaks’ those weapons to the cartels.
“But they get their financing from here. The best way to stop that is legalize drugs in America.”
Bogus point. The states in the US that have legalized weed have discovered that the taxes and fees on the ‘legal’ stuff is damn high, the illegal stuff at the old prices is cheaper than the now-legal weed.
The illegal importation continues, stuffing American dollars into the cartel pockets…
Guessing we no longer produce most of our own weed then. Even if we did I doubt meth heroin or cocaine are likely to be legalized so there will always be something worth the time and effort to smuggle for cash.
This, all day long. Even if the demand for drugs dries-up overnight, the cartels will find another venture to make money on. It’s the reason they exist. Was the end of prohibition the end of the mafia, as well? Nope, they just found other ways to stay in existence.
Taxes potentially in flux and markets developing:
https://taxfoundation.org/safe-banking-act-state-marijuana-revenues/
The claim that the cartel’s guns come from the US is a canard. Such is the corruption in Mexico that the cartels can obtain any kind of weaponry they desire from the Mexican police or the Mexican military. Some weapons flow across the border but in recent years the cartel’s reach is such that they simply demand arms from the Mexican government.
I got rid of my nukes. So why do others still have theirs?
I was told if I disarmed they would too.
Real world example of that being in Ukraine. Pretty sure you can a hear Russian laughter in the background.
Take a swiftboat back to your Ketchup factor John Kerry, and leave the statesmanship to someone who likes making American sausage.
Remember the SALT talks? I was a kid back then and didn’t know the details of it.
I just remember thinking: “the Russians aren’t going to give up their weapons, why are we”.
That was the left’s way of dealing with a superior threat. We’ll disarm heavily if disarm a little and call it a treaty. Most of us called it a surrender. Reagan stuck his middle finger at them and the left was waiting for WW3.
Ronald Reagan was a major author of the SALT talks, and I’d say they were pretty successful, wouldn’t you? Do you remember the Warsaw Pact, reckon where they are now?
All that’s left is Russia, and under Putin’s leadership their economy is in shambles and their standard of living is in the shitter. They work all week for just enough money to buy a bottle of vodka so they can drown their sorrows.
Their military equipment is in poor condition, and their nuclear submarines are rusting in the pens.
“I got rid of my nukes.”
So *that’s* how our Possum got the fissile materiel for his “Marsupial Special” neutron bombs.
Thanks. Thanks a lot… 😉
Nuetrino , I had a whole cardboard box full of them but some mezkin guy stoled it.
You want to know where the cartels get al their guns you should ask Eric Holder, H&K, and the Mexican government.
Also numerous governments and cartels of Central and South America (originally given arms by us post Vietnam). I think now it’s mostly international but haven’t seen the stats since the Holder years.
President Obama supplied gun(s) to Paris terrorist attackers. It’s not the first time Democrats have supplied guns to criminals.
“One of the guns used in the November 13, 2015 Paris terrorist attacks came from Phoenix, Arizona where the Obama administration allowed criminals to buy thousands of weapons illegally in a deadly and futile “gun-walking” operation known as “Fast and Furious.”
https://www.judicialwatch.org/corruption-chronicles/law-enforcement-sources-gun-used-paris-terrorist-attacks-came-phoenix/
It was the renegade Phoenix Arizona ATF office that was the architect of the so-called fast and furious operation.
They recovered about a third of the weapons but the others are unaccounted for. But the fact is none of the weapons involved were anything more than some automatic rifles and pistols, no grenade launchers no machine guns and no heavy weapons.
The heavy weapons they have in their possession come from the US arms manufactures sales into Central and South America, diverted into the drug cartels armories.
“Renegade”? Seriously?!? It is well known that Eric Holder authorized it. That is not “renegade.” It is not known whether or not Obama authorized it, but it seems highly unlikely that he didn’t.
There were no tracking devices put on the weapons. The only tracking done was via serial numbers.
The Bush administration had done Operation Wide Receiver where they tried to accomplish the goals claimed for Fast and Furious. But they had active tracking devices, which were eventually found and removed. In other words, the Bush administration proved that letting the cartels get guns in an attempt to catch them at it did not work.
Given that history, why would it make sense for the Obama administration to engage in a half-hearted version of what was already known not to work? The only explanation that makes any kind of sense is that it was an attempt to create an excuse for gun control.
Turns out you were right about some of the cult. Got curious and found out at least some of the group has ties to one of my local area cults and we’re likely running some human trafficking for pedo grooming via some school program. So yay bigger network than makes the news and sucks to be me for hoping your group was an isolated anomaly.
The cartels get most of their guns from the Mexican military, police and direct shipments in. Only a small percentage came from the US and even if they do so the fuck what? Should we be disarmed as a result?
The Left: “Hell yes!”
Me: “@#$&*$”
RIGHT!
The cartels are running their civil war on guns mostly brought up from the south and in shipments from overseas. Or from the government, either stolen or delivered by corrupt officials. Including heavy hitters like .50 cal machine guns and rocket propelled grenades. They are even a threat to government helicopters and have shot one down.
That kind of gear is not being bought in American gun shows. Even if it were the quantities being used do not exist in civilian hands in the USA.
The reason claims are made of a high percentage coming from the USA is our country has the best record keeping from factory to initial seller. The Mexican government hand-picks from captured guns for those likely to be of USA origin. Since it is a carefully filtered list to begin with, a high percentage of that list scores as “From those damned Gringo’s!!!”.
But it’s bullshit. That cherry picked list is itself a very small percentage of the entire haul of seized weapons each year.
Do the cartels care? Nope. They make ten$ of billion$ each year. Maintaining a steady flow of guns and ammo is routine, a cost of doing business.
Just remember. It’s always America’s fault.
Unless of course, we have a democrat administration. Then it’s Trump, Bush, Reagan’s fault.
Stay away from Mexico…
Yep don’t live in a Mormon cult in Meh-he-co with multiple “wives” and a kajillian kid’s aka “spirit children”. And war with cartels.
You Cray.
That twitter thread, like most twitter threads is cancer. Some extremely stupid comments. If you ban semi auto rifles in the U.S., then the Mexican drug cartels can’t get full auto weapons anymore? This is what happens when you are extremely ignorant to most of how the world works. The cartels will get weapons either directly from the Mexican government, or will buy them overseas and have them shipped in. They won’t have a problem to gain access to the weapons they want.
I hear you about Twitter, same goes for facebook; most times folks just don’t think before they post. But as a medium for info, true/false/opinion, the intended message hopefully gets to Americans, on the fence about gun control, that gun control means bad people with guns kill defensless good people.
Banning guns wont work any better then making drugs illegal or having Prohibition did back in the 1920s.
People haven’t changed. Making something illegal. Only makes it more tempting to get involved with. Why in hell is marijuana still considered a Class 1 drug??? by the Feds.
Stupidity on the part of the American people. Who keep electing old Nixon era farts back in office that’s why.
Live in a 3rd world country… well you can figure out the rest.
Only a liar or a fool believes making drugs legal will stop the cartel violence south of the border.
This is, and it always has been, about the “power flowing out the end of a gun barrel”. Legalizing pot in America has not stopped drug sale related violence. And the stupid white pot dealers have finally come around to the thinking of black pot dealers. Having guns around to protect your property and profits, is a necessity.
Cartels are murdering people over a product that’s always been legal. An illegal or legal product. It doesn’t matter to criminals who can make a profit off of it.
https://www.newsweek.com/19-people-have-been-murdered-mexico-cartels-fighting-over-avocado-trade-1453925
Historically in California the biggest most active anti gunners were the drug legalization crowd. And they were racists too.
Of course you can still pray to your “flying spaghetti monster” and perhaps it will change the thinking of the drug cartels.
btw
Thanks to jwtaylor for the heads up on the avocado murder stories.
Hey, Chris –
Did you ever realize that you are the namesake of the “flying spaghetti monster”?
;^)
?
They legalized Pot in California, and with the government red-tape to grow & sell, the Pot black-market there is now bigger than ever!
That’s because the drug legalization crowd was, and always has been, socialist progressive in their political orientation. The potheads love big government. Except when it affects them in a negative way. The California high business taxes that the pot heads voted for have finally hit them. So many of them have now moved to lower tax Colorado.
Which is why gun control is now passing in Colorado. The Cali potheads brought it there.
The taxes, fees, and expensive “business security requirements” in California have made the illegal stuff now cheaper than the legal stuff.
People aren’t stupid. When presented with a choice, many will choose the “better deal”…
“…the Pot black-market there is now bigger than ever!”
Business economics lesson from Cheech Marin and Thomas Chong :
*snicker* 😉
Corruption happens everywhere, Mexico’s veneer of civilization just happens to be a little thinner than ours.
I don’t believe there is any single solution.
If I was emperor of the Unites States, I would employ the FBI to examine the problem. Give them up to two or three years to thoroughly locate and identify the tiny fraction of the true “string pullers”.
Once complete, direct the military to simultaneously strike their locations with fifty 500 pound phosphorous bombs and have snipers take out the ones fleeing the inferno. Wait a few months, rinse repeat.
Mexican citizens have had to scrounge for guns and ammo to defend their towns. It’s a motley collection of new and old, even some AR’s built on 80% lowers. They do it even with the federal government threatening to arrest them for illegal guns, and sometimes doing so.
The cartels are very sophisticated. They know who the citizen leaders are and target them for kidnapping, assassination, or arrest by corrupted cops.
Mexico brought back the idea of a National Guard. Citizen vigilante organizations were encouraged to give up their private guns, join the National Guard and be issued government guns. Problem is those sophisticated cartels infiltrate NG units, taking control of leadership position and making them over into new corrupt police agencies that do more to support them than to oppose them.
The pervasive corruption and violence coupled with a public unable to achieve a high level of armament makes a bad situation worse. Mexico is in a long civil war between organized crime and civilized government. A civil war where civilization is struggling, losing too many battles.
The USA plays a major part in this as the financing of organized crime comes from our people. We talk about “The War on Drugs” but it is bullshit. We have never, not once, placed this problem on a war fitting. Billions have been wasted pretending this is a police problem. It is intensely more than that.
What we need:
Declare that the nature of war has changed and expanded. Non-State/Non-Government Terrorist Organizations and Organized Crime now wage asymmetric warfare.
Declare the Narco Cartels as Terrorist Organizations.
The President must demand Congress issue a Declaration of War, not an “Authorization to use Force”.
A massive deployment of troops along our southern border to engage in armed patrols.
Large scale hand inspections of cargo and vehicles at all ports of entry.
Large scale use of naval and air forces to patrol our coastlines.
Use of special forces to target cartel cells and leadership. Same as in Afghanistan and Iraq. Identify them and raid them at night. Seize some for interrogation, kill others, suck up all the intel that can be found at the site. Rinse repeat ad nauseum … Because it works!
The entire goal is to so severely pinch off the cash flowing south that the cartels can no longer operate. Killing the evil bloody animals off is just part of getting there.
There is one more thing and that is the decriminalizing of drug use in America. Not entirely, not a 100%. Reduce the severity of punishment for using, fund and require treatment, reserve the strongest punishment for the dealers and leaders. Be smart and firm and hold back on brutal until brutal makes sense.
Oh, and demand Mexico allow an armed population, Then send American forces to train community defense organizations.
None of the above is going to happen. No American President has ever had the intelligence, the inclination or the will to do what is needed.
@enuf – The thing is, the cartels ARE a defacto form of government – like ISIS. They may present an even greater threat than any other terrorist organization. You’re right – the cartels ARE terrorists. Their ideology is driven by money (at the very least), not religion.
I still think cooperation between the FBI, CIA and the military would achieve the best results. I would bolster the Coast Guard too.
I think we are in agreement.
There is already cooperation between the alphabet soup of intelligence agencies (civilian and military) and Federal law enforcement. The problem is it is on a weak footing. The action that results are police actions, no acts of war against forces that rate such a response. Thus our actions are always inadequate to the problem. We score some victories, just no where near enough.
Yes, the USCG has always struggled with an inadequate budget, a fleet that is long extended beyond reasonable lifespans. Many new ships are needed.
I’d LOVE to see our government treat the cartels with the level of destruction they so richly deserve!
As I mentioned earlier – Corruption is EVERYWHERE:
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2019/11/new-video-15-marines-arrested-in-formation-for-human-smuggling-ring/?utm_source=foramerica&utm_campaign=alt&utm_medium=facebook
Are these the same LeBarons who went to Mexico to practice polygamy and the same LeBarons who tended to hunt down people who tried to leave their cult?
Yep, that’s exactly correct, this is their Mexican hideouts where they engage in child sexual abuse. There’s a reason they intentionally place their children and families in a dangerous situation, and they use their religious beliefs as a justification for the most vile forms of pedophilia.
The cult members will border jump back-and-forth in order to avoid prosecution and apprehension, it’s hard to say exactly why they were moving children in a convoy on that day but it probably wasn’t for a shopping trip.
All this is real, there’s no doubt about how these polygamists such as Ervin LeBaron and Warren Jeffs have abused children in a continuing criminal enterprise.
Meanwhile, a gun-nut takes his AR 15 and shoots up cosmic pizza in DC because Hillary Clinton is abusing children in the basement.
So whatever happened to that Q fellow?
Ha iz good joke on Possum. He working at factory getting old and say to self,” my welfare check( social security) not going to be much I move to Mexico and live like king. They skin possum make burrito’s and handbag, Ha iZ not good joke on Possum
Maybe Americans shouldn’t go to other countries talking smack like they have a right to do so. Fuck with the cartels and they will fuck you right back. Your Mormon God won’t save you.