“This is breaking, first-hand, eyewitness audio testimony of one person’s perspective on what happened to LaVoy Finicum on January 26, 2016,” the caption underneath this video proclaims. “The witness you’re going to hear was in the car with LaVoy, Ryan Payne, Ryan Bundy, and Shawna Cox.” Victoria Sharp says the police fired a round into their car — without hitting anyone — before the chase. She also claims Robert LaVoy had his hands in the air when the police shot and killed him. This assertion has been disputed in other accounts. Surely there’s police dash cam footage of the entire incident . . .
This is being spooled so quickly. Sometimes I wish for a delayed but complete story rather than bits and pieces doled out as they come.
Consumer society, Ted Turner has changed us better or for worse.
It’s for the worse.
I also heard that the Ferguson kid, Mike Brown, had his hands up (proven false).
Maybe we should wait to see how this shakes out before we jump to conclusions?
Maybe? MAYBE!? Ain’t no maybe about that. You either have facts, or you don’t.
It’s fine to express uninformed opinion, the problem is getting all wound up about your own imagination.
2 men that have released videos and where in the vehicles have said there was one woman in the vehicles, Shawna? aged 18. Now this vid is claiming to be a statement by a second woman in the vehicles.
I’m confused.
JWM the story has not changed, Shawna and an 18 y/o were in the 2nd car. Shawna was arrested, the 18 year old was released.
So they shot a man with his hands up. Anymore fed apologists want to comment?
I see you found your Jump to Conclusions Mat . . .
Do you have any evidence that this testimony is not credible? Were any LEOs hurt? Did anybody in the car ever REACH for a gun?
This testimony is damning and is at least as credible as what was flying around after the Brown shooting.
Why are you still here then son. Get to work. LOL #internetbadassery
Get me a new leg and I’ll be on my way. Some of us aren’t quite as combat capable as others. But hey, if it makes you feel better to ignore rational arguments.
You are not– as usual– making rational arguments, but you are so blinded by your desire for everyone you agree with to be a victim of the mean ol’ feds that you probably actually believe that you are.
What evidence do YOU have that what you are choosing to believe is more credible than other reports?
Fer fuck’s sake, man. you are so bad at this that you have got me defending the Feds, and that is not normally my default position.
The problem is that there is other testimony, also from people who claim to have been here, that directly contradicts this.
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/eyewitnesses-knock-down-conspiracy-theories-about-lavoy-finicum-dying-with-his-hands-up/
So at this point it’s he-said-she-said, and no video evidence that would prove either version of events. But going by the sheer number of witnesses, the “hands up” story doesn’t hold ground.
Office Space.
I would point out that so far the only one saying that he was shot while surrendering is an associate of his. Sorta like the eyewitness saying the cops murdered the “gentle giant” of ferguson.
I could point out that an investigation is ongoing. I could point out that we have not seen any real evidence released as of yet.
I could point out a lot of things. But I would be wasting my time.
Not really, I would love to believe that cops wouldn’t murder a surrendering suspect. That’s not a bridge anybody is happy to cross. However, the silence from the FBI is damning.
“the silence from the FBI is damning”
No. No its not. Its silence.
The kind of silence we expect during a professional investigation that is ongoing.
A lack of info does not constitute proof of your favorite pet theory.
Please – be calm and intellectually objective until the facts come out. Don’t be guilty of the same thing the liberals do every time the police shoot a member of their community.
No but eyewitness testimony from someone who was in the car does. It’s going to take a video to convince me that the cops met the legal standards required to employ lethal force. My personal favorite is an explanation for the first round fired before the roadblock was run.
I’m not saying that there is no case where they could have been legaly justified in shooting him, but right now, the only admissible evidence points in the exact opposite direction.
There’s going to be video. There has to be considering the situation.
Unless the lapel cameras of all the cops were mysteriously malfunctioning, or someone deleted the files totally on accident, or the feds simply refuse to release video, then you can start jumping.
The man asked to be shot at least a half a dozen times, ran a road block, and repeatedly failed to comply with a large group of men pointing guns at him.
I don’t care if its Revolutionaries vs Statists, Cops vs Robbers, Patriots vs Fascists, or Cowboys vs Indians, that is how you intentionally get yourself killed. Period. Full stop.
He asked to be shot, and he got his wish. He called their bluff, and found out they weren’t bluffing.
Family members sobbing “He was a such a good little boy, on his way to the sheriff’s to turn his life around. He could have grown up to be a doctor”…. sound familiar?
Don’t make this a dindu nuffin situation, please. Threaten men with guns long enough, those guns get used on you. Universal truth.
You need to look up the justifications that allow the use of lethal force. A belligerent suspect ain’t it.
If he’s armed it’s a different story. Hopefully there is video of this shooting, but we can see in other photos and videos of him that he habitually carries a gun with him (not like I don’t).
Being belligerent and lawfully armed is STILL not a legal reason to use deadly force. Five will get you twenty that the gun was holstered. AKA, no imminent threat exists. Thus, badge or no badge, it’s felony homicide.
Ethan what the fbi did was wrong.According this this young lady the FBI murdered a protester. I guess you never heard of kent state.Did the order come from Obama to have an american killed is the question. You know Obama has the power now to order the death of americans.Ethan If you are a real american who want choose to believe government is always truthful I would say to you ..Go research Pat Tillman… And then come back to me son..This government is illegal,,This govenrment is run like a mob..This usa government must be replaced ..
WASHINGTON (CNN) — The last soldier to see Army Ranger Pat Tillman alive, Spc. Bryan O’Neal, told lawmakers that he was warned by superiors not to divulge — especially to the Tillman family — that a fellow soldier killed Tillman.
What a bunch of crap Ethan. There is no doubt in my mind that this was nothing more than an assassination from ambush which was what the intent was from the beginning. The feds had big militia members in one spot for the kill. They had to be killed in order that the federal government assert its ultimate authority. Lincoln did the same thing, Waco and Randy Weavers wife were also examples of this. There can be no dissent, no organization that opposes the government. If you can’t see this you are a bit myopic.
There needs to be a lesson visited on those federal cowards
Was it not local/state police that made the stop and arrest? Do we know that federal agents did the shooting?
Seems like there’s a fair bit of unknowns and lots of reliance on probably biased and unreliable testimony from a group of folks known to lie extensively before (particularly about military service and federal assistance and loans).
So we should take the word of the people who opened up at the slimmest of provocations? Oh, wait, they haven’t actually denied it yet.
Eye witness testimony trumps lack of evidence.
I’m saying we shouldn’t take anything at face value, realize that there is every incentive on the part of these people to lie and that they have a proven track record of lying, and should wait for more information before assuming some grand conspiracy.
Eye witness testimony, especially coming from a group like this, is largely worthless.
Jackbooted brown shirts jackbooting is not a “conspiracy”. It’s expected behavior.
Look, if you just want to assume it’s a “jackboot thug” thing, then don’t pretend your having a conversation. If your not going to respond to any arguments, and are just going to sidestep them instead and believe anything that fits your narrative despite the obvious bias and track record of lying this group has about thinga like military service and federal loans and the like, then just say so.
Ultimately, we don’t know if any federal agents were involved in the shooting, it was local police that made the initial stop, not feds, and Bundy’s group has a *huge* credibility problem and *every* incentive to lie.
What the truth actually is, who knows, but you certainly seemed convinced withat basically nothing hard to go on.
Any bets that any recording devices in use by the State or Federal Government will have malfunctioned at precisely the same time?
Looks like a good shoot to me. Now what do you have to say Serge?
This seemed inevitable, but it’s still upsetting. What’s worse is all the people cheering and joking about this.
The death of LaVoy is looking like a simple suicide-by-cop. What’s more concerning to me at this point is, according to this witness, the LEOs fired 120 rounds into an occupied vehicle. I think that needs to be investigated fully… I can’t imagine that volume of firepower being used in response to a specific threat (someone pulled a gun, driver tried to run someone over, etc.)
So shooting a man with his his hands in the air is normal police procedure? “Simple suicide by cop?”
Wow!
Maybe we should start another movement of :”Hands in the air, don’t shoot”! But this time because it actually happened!
(Deep breath! No video has been released!Deep breath!)
Both accounts has LaVoy Finicum approaching police and both accounts have no shots fired by the occupiers. No doubt the police were yelling at him to stop and get on the ground but he kept coming. His killing isn’t necessarily the issue. It was that the shooting was possibly entirely instigated by the Feds (if Victoria Sharp’s account is accurate and they shot at them when they first were pulled over)
This will be easily confirmed, or shown to be a pack of lies by either of the parties involved, once the video is released. If it is released, which will say much, either way.
Until then, it is she said, they said. Literally.
But if there were dozens of police and feds on scene when this went down, there will be multiple videos from multiple frames of reference available.
So I will wait and see before passing judgement.
Aside from some rather biased sources from a group known to have lied extensively, we have no idea if he was executed with his hands up or shot while resisting.
The dude made very clear, on video, that he would resist arrest with violencd before this event.
And what makes you think it ‘actually happened’ this time any more than the last?
There is literally the SAME amount of evidence there was at this point in the Michael Brown case.
How is having your hands up over your head “suicide by cop”? There is zero evidence that any situation existed that justified the use of deadly force.
What makes me sick is all the apologists who think that shooting at a car of cooperating people is an acceptable response from law enforcement.
So far there’s zero evidence. Period. But that hasn’t slowed your rants down one bit.
This testimony would be perfectly admissible in a court of law and in and of itself constitutes evidence. Maybe not definitive evidence, but the FBI isn’t even bothering to release any evidence of their own.
Quiet, bootlicker!!!!
/sarc
There has been no evidence released by the FBI. We cannot say right now there is ZERO evidence.
Because you don’t have to have a weapon in your hand to be a deadly threat. If you are advancing on a cop (or armed citizen) that is ordering you to stop, then once you are in proximity, you have the capacity, opportunity and apparent intent to kill that cop/citizen. This kind of justifiable homicide happens all the time, and when they guy is saying “shoot me” when he does it, it’s pretty clear he intended to get killed and did what he needed to do to be sure of it.
Now, explain to me how the police believed that deadly force needed to be used against all occupants of the vehicle. Because that’s a hard question with what little we know now.
The fbi ambushed them.There was no reason for that tactic these men were gentleman with an ongoing protest against the government.By your logic Protesters anywhere in the country should be murdered by the government.
they were thugs and got what they deserved
What if there was credible evidence that the assailant kept a BUG in a strap on his upper back just below the neckline?
Hands up position could be close to draw in that case.
That’s some damn good x-ray vision then. You have to KNOW it’s a credible threat.
This is all the proof you need. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ
Hmmm… So Michael Brown’s squirrelly little friend says “hands up don’t shoot” and within hours, his lie is all over the national news media being treated as gospel truth.
Here we have an eyewitness who is at least as credible at first glance, telling a story of ambush and outright murder…and where will it go?
Well Mark never saw the incident and somehow was let go by the police when no one else but Victoria Sharp was. He then goes on to tell us hearsay. Then he releases another video telling others upset over the shooting (which Victoria Sharp’s account is likely to further inflame) to not come. Sorry Mark, you just are not a credible witness and your second vid appears as pandering which further discredits you. Then to hear Victoria’s account, she is still traumatized by what she saw. She is either a very good actress, or a very credible witness.
I have a hard time believing that the feds would not video tape an arrest of such high level people given the amount of media scrutiny on this case. If the police do not release video of their own by the end of the week it will become a big problem for them. Too many people remember the waco biker shootout.
And Ruby Ridge, Waco 1, etc.
Yes, if it turns out they have no video, that will mean to me that they probably had video but needed to delete it. For now, I’m reserving judgement.
Exactly. I want to see evidence or hear testimony from more than one person before I draw any conclusions. As at least one person pointed out above we don’t even know if it was the feds or locals that did the shooting.
As Patton said, the goal isn’t to die for your country, it’s to make the other guy die for his.
So one guy gets shot and killed and everyone else surrenders. I’d have more respect if the protesters had attacked under cover of darkness, or laid their own trap at the roadblock. As it is, somebody died and everyone gets arrested.
I’m hearing that the FBI invited Ammon to a negotiation and ambushed them along the way
https://youtu.be/oRYsIrtbtWE
If that is true, that’s about the worst thing they could have done. Now no offer to negotiate by any federal agency will be taken at face value. That’s just going to get far more people killed.
Bundy was on his way to speak at an event where he was invited about 70 miles away from the refuge. It wasn’t some sort of negotiation with the feds he was on his way too unless the feds were setting the most obvious trap in the world asking him to drive 70 miles away to meet them and he was dumb enough to take them up on it.
yeah, there’s a video of it (FBI face to face @ airport) on Pete Santilli’s youtube channel, along with them coming and going to public meetings at a high school in Burns, and plenty of other stuff since this all started.
I also read that they had a Face to Face with Ammon Bundy last week, but the FBI negotiator didn’t want to go on camera saying what he was offering Bundy, so Ammon left.
The whole story the girl gave sounds really embellished, like she was pulling things she had seen in movies out of her ass. She also is saying she managed to see what he was doing while laying down on the floor in the back seat of a pickup, and even then she said he was walking (presumably towards the cops) and yelling at them to shoot him while ignoring their orders.
Exactly what I thought JT. As a LEO of over 20 years, I can tell you the first thing you do not want to do is act on the statement of one witness. I’ve chased after suspects who were reported as black but were not, cars that were reported to be one type or color but later found to be another. I went after a van once that was in a hit and run that turned out to be an F150. That girl in NYC who swore up and down that the cops killed an unarmed homeless guy with his hands in the air comes to mind. He turned out to be a hammer swinging crazy guy who hit a cop with the hammer and was attacking another when they shot him. There have been volumes of research done on the psychology of traumatized witnesses and why they recall things so differently. The mind sees what it wants to see sometimes under duress, especially to those who aren’t used to traumatic situations.
I have a hard time believing this girl saw what she says she saw. She probably heard a lot more, and saw only fragments. Her mind filled in the rest. That’s assuming she’s being honest. As a party to the incident, her testimony is tainted by the association. Witness statements from people “in the car” so to speak were always found to be slanted once the other evidence was processed. And there’s always other evidence.
Speaking of that, there has to be video of this. Which, while fraught with issues in an of itself, will be another piece of evidence and help resolve the incident. If there isn’t, then that was a calculated move on the Feds, and a whole ‘nuther problem that wiil be a big problem for the .gov in the weeks to come.
Good explanation that covers all the points Brad, but unfortunately it won’t make a bit of difference to the cop haters and anarchists that are drawn to TTAG like flies on $#!T. The familiar cop haters will likely rant and squeal for weeks or months just like they did when the prosecutor in the Waco biker on biker murders did his job and didn’t release video evidence until required in the discovery process.
It will be interesting to see if the U.S. Attorneys Office prosecuting this band of losers in Oregon determines if it’s appropriate to immediately release video of Finicum committing suicide by cop or instead wait to release it at the appropriate time in discovery proceedings.
Funny how the pro cannabis anti cop TTAG staff dropped the Waco biker conspiracy coverage and never bothered to offer any update to the red meat loving reprobates who frequent this forum once video made available to the defense through discovery confirmed most of the thugs murdered each other, not a word about one of the outlaw biker nation’s favorite lawyers, Attorney Stephen Stubbs of Las Vegas, confirming the biker on biker murderous carnage and crediting Waco law enforcement officers with saving lives.
They will release video only if it is to their advantage. Remember the front door video at Waco? Miles of video disappeared.
After watching video of a news interview of Robert Lavoy Finicum, aka “tarp man”, I must say that it was hard to watch and realize that a 55 year old man could be so deluded and consumed with such gullible ignorance.
Finicum obviously had a death wish which he very clearly articulated on camera by announcing he would resist arrest with deadly force using a firearm if an attempt was made by law enforcement to serve a warrant for his arrest.
Yesterday the FBI and Oregon State Police granted the poor dumb b@$t@rd his wish. Thank God no one else died.
Finicum’s death amounted to nothing more than an incredibly foolish long drawn out and complicated way to commit suicide by cop that was a selfishly cruel ordeal he chose to put his family through.
Wait for the movie.
Believing the words of thugs and criminals…
Victoria Sharp of the Sharp Family Singers was in the car when LaVoy Finicum was assassinated by Federal mercenaries.
The media cannot spin this with this eyewitness testimony.
LaVoy was known to carry a revolver on his right side in a holster and on occasion to wear a shoulder rig. he would never carry a firearm in a pocket or in his left side waist. the video released shows LaVoy exiting the truck with his hands in the air walking in foot deep snow. the first time he puts his hands down it is to his left side abdominal area. hands go back up in the air he starts to turn, hands grab towards abdomen where he is shot multiple times from the front and behind until he is down. if the fbi was not expecting a violent end they would’ve had EMT’s standing by. medical attention was not even thought about being applied for 30 minutes after the shooting. after he was down you could still see him moving and medical aid could’ve been applied.
Its already coming out that unedited drone version has been edited. Note that at 27:40 (tape cntr) of orig unedited video Ryan Payne can be seen with hands out the passenger window, then suddenly he withdraws his hands very quickly. This is corroborated by Victoria Sharp saying this is when the OSP took an unprovoked shot at him. At 29:28 u can see Payne being placed into the OSP vehicle. BUT WAIT, U CANT SEE PAYNE GETTING OUT OF CAR AND WALKING TO OSP??? This is possibly the time frame where OSP shot at LaVoy and occupants, also as reported by Sharp. WHY WOULD FBI REPORT THIS AS UNEDITED VIDEO BUT ITS NOT????
Victoria Sharp statement fresh
https://youtu.be/TQVXZw8kiC0
At 1:14 she reports, “he stuck his head out and they shot at him but missed….” At 1:59 she reports OSP started “firing at us”
Nutjobs
hmmmmmm….. video time stamp 27th the next day.
“The federal government has no Constitutional authority to even own the land”, protesters claim.
Well, please explain the following:
United States Constitution states it very clear in
Article Four Section 3 Clause 2: Property Clause
—
The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.
—
The Northwest Ordinance, which Congress, under the Articles of Confederation, enacted as the Constitutional Convention was meeting, and which the First Congress reenacted after the Constitution was ratified. This statute established the territorial government for the land comprising what is today the states of Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, and Wisconsin. James Madison and other leaders at the Convention thought that the Articles of Confederation did not contain an adequate source of power to sustain the Northwest Ordinance. The Property Clause was designed to remedy that defect. This suggests that the Framers intended the Property Clause to be broad enough at least to constitutionalize the provisions of the Northwest Ordinance.
Ammon Bundy the recepient of a $530,000 federal loan from the Small Business Administration, his father Cliven $3 miilion richer not paying his grazing fees.
All these guys like LaVoy Finicum, a neighbor of his father’s Nevada ranch, Ryan Payne, Blaine Cooper (real name Stanley Hicks) previous appearence was in Ferguson, Missouri, and well known Agent provocateur Jon Ritzheimer appear to be some sort of Mormon Mafia.
And of course no 3 ring circus would be with out a ringmaster like big mouth Pete Santilli Revealed as FBI Informant(https://youtu.be/8hx7KS0jRNo?list=PLit28vmG6icQwf_qs0Fw_aUX5Z30ygZBl)
They have appeared and hijacked a truly Federal invectiveness against the Hammond family, and turned it into a circus/honeypot designed to either lure or characterize militia’s in the public’s mind as crazy domestic terrorists.
The Militia Act of 1903, which became known as the Dick Act. This law repealed the Militia Acts of 1792 and organized the militia into two groups: the Reserve Militia, which included all able-bodied men between ages 17 and 45, and the Organized Militia, which included state militia (National Guard) units receiving federal support.
The key term here is “Organized Militia”, that does not mean a bunch of gun toting John Wayne wannabe yahoos who after drinking a case or two of beer to form THEIR own militia.
Stay FAR way from these Kooks, if people really want to help the Hammond family help raise funds for the fine that might cost them their ranch.
finicum did 9/11