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Inconvenient truth or not, one thing’s for sure: George Zimmerman couldn’t have shot Trayvon Martin if he didn’t have a gun. But that’s not the logic in play in an article by the AP: “Holding a gun may make you think others are too.” The cautious yet inflammatory headline sets the tone for the piece, based on a “new” study by James Brockmole of the University of Notre Dame and psychologist Jessica Witt at Purdue University. The Journal’s lede lets you know that the paper doesn’t want to add fuel to the media stocked pyre onto which hundreds of thousands of people are ready to toss neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman for shooting supposed interloper Trayvon Martin . . .

No one knows what led a Florida neighborhood watch captain to shoot Trayvon Martin, a teenager carrying no weapon.

But a new study raises an intriguing question: Could the watch captain have been fooled into thinking the youth was armed in part because he himself was holding a gun?

In the study which was carried out well before the shooting, undergraduates at Notre Dame and Purdue glimpsed scenes of people holding objects and had to decide quickly whether the object was a gun. The results showed they were biased toward thinking so if they themselves were holding a toy gun, rather than a plastic ball. Just having a gun nearby didn’t make a difference, researchers found.

Stats? Methodology? Protocol? Link? Nope. That’s it. No Google-Fu I guess. Click here for Action Alters Object Identification: Wielding a Gun Increases the Bias to See Guns. See below for the experimental hardware.

Scandalously, the AP simply takes the paranoia-shaped ball and runs with it, straight into a controversy whose facts are already a matter of heated debate.

Brockmole said it’s possible that Zimmerman’s perception might have been skewed by being armed.

Race may have also played a role. Martin is black; Zimmerman’s family says he is Hispanic. Past research suggests that people can be more likely to perceive a poorly seen object as a gun if it’s held by a black person than by a white person, experts say.

Experts? What study? Methodology? Protocol? Link? Nope. Having introduced the idea that a gun-in-your-hand distorts your ability to correctly process visual information (surprise!) and linked it to racial prejudice with hearsay (surprise!), the AP then does the old “don’t think of a pink elephant” routine.

[Brockmole] said the work is not intended to support gun control, but it suggests that people should know that when they hold a gun “that might change how you’re going to interpret what’s around you.”

Ya think? And yet this piercing glimpse into the obvious opens an extremely dangerous new front for gun control advocates to exploit. As I’m on holiday (obviously), a member of TTAG’s crack team will deconstruct the study ASAP. Watch this space.

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  1. Here’s what’s being said in every newsroom in the country right now:

    “The Martin story is hot! Quick, write-up and print anything you can think of that is even tangentially related to the shooting!”

    Journalists, much like lawyers, generally make me sick. Present company excepted, of course.

  2. Aside from the dumb headline, I can believe that notion. It’s nothing but the old hammer-nail saying, which is why, when you get a CCW, your instructor tells you that you are now an ego-less wallflower who avoids confrontation at (almost) all costs.

    The root cause of the Martin shooting was Zimmerman failing to follow that basic rule. He got out of his car and chased a guy; everything after that, on both sides, was autopilot, because human beings have a raft of automatic responses to physical confrontation. Most police training revolves around trying to keep your mind and others in play under that kind of circumstance, which is why an untrained wannabe like Zimmerman running around playing cop with a gun is an accident waiting to happen.

  3. That’s exactly why we don’t want kids playing with toy guns. They’ll end up thinking their playmate has a toy gun too, instead of a ball. Yep.

  4. Funny how Zimmerman’s picture looks more like a mug shot then a picture. Big blingy stud in one ear….
    We should have a gun law dress code, meaning you shouldnt look like a gang banging idiot to get your CCW permit….

    • I just knew this was going to happen. OK, how did horses come into the picture? I thought it was an SUV.

    • Who is backing who, Pair? Please tell me. Pretty much every sensible post made to anything related to this thread has stated that we will wait until there is more information and the courts present evidence. Until then we will reserve judgement. Where in all that is anyone backing any horse?

    • pair-o-dee: My pull-it-out-of-my-posterior statistics show that the vast majority of regular posters here, easily 90%+, have evinced no opinion backing either side (although everyone seems pretty much in agreement that pursuing Martin after the direction/command/suggestion from 911 was dumb).

      It appears to me that most of the comments either supporting Zimmerman or screaming for his head on a pike are names I’ve never seen here before. You’re here often enough to recognize that.

  5. Seriously though, Zim’s wearing an orange button up polo and an diamond ear stud. Only one of those pictures looks like a mug shot…

  6. I don’t get it. Why do people seem to have such a heard time seeing this guy as Hispanic? He couldn’t look anymore Hispanic to me.

    I know this upsets the folks out there that want to say this was another case of Whitey keeping the black man down but it isn’t. At least on the surface. This guy is clearly not White.

    And let’s go ahead and pretend that the majority of us out there don’t have our heads up our asses when it comes to being over-sensitive of race. Let’s go ahead and for a second – just one second – pretend we all have a clue and look at the facts (of which we have little and even those are largely media fabrication) and say that maybe this was a crime perpetrated by Zimmerman and let’s say that Zimmerman is in the wrong. But maybe, just maybe, he did all this because he felt like it. Not because of race but because he wanted a fight that night?

    Could he just be any other guy out there that wanted a thrill that went way, way too far? Could he be deranged and maybe he was looking for anyone to harm that night?

    Nah, we would have to be not deranged and blinded by race to see anything of quantifiable import.

    • Meanwhile, black people are asking, “Did he not hold the door because I’m black? Is she rude to everyone or just black people? Why is that man following me?”

      Might be nothing. But if you’re black and live in the south, you’ve got to wonder.

      A latino chased down and shot an innocent black teen, and the Sheriff didn’t arrest him, drug test him, or even initially run a background check on him. You can’t just dismiss the racial element. You can only estimate to what degree it had a role.

      • Wow, all you can focus on is the racial element before getting all the facts of the investigation. That really speaks volumes of your own biases. I’ve experience some racism growing up in the south as well, but would say people greatly exaggerate white on black racism. I’m not white, but I’ve seen far more of the opposite.

      • “You can’t just dismiss the racial element.”
        Why not? Would Trayvon be any less dead if he were white?

        • Of course not. It just would not have made the news. It hardly ever does here in Cleveland and the murders of black on white here are massively disproportionate.

        • That’s not the question people are asking. People are asking would Zimmerman have been arrested at the scene if he were black? If not, would he have been tested for drugs and alcohol if he were black? And so on and so forth.

          I’m not saying those are productive questions to ask, but those are the issues on people’s minds.

          • I’ve always thought that much of a firearm’s utility arises from the fact that they’re pretty effective on people of all shapes, sizes and colors. Is white skin made of kevlar and aramid?

      • “Andy says:

        March 21, 2012 at 11:48

        “Meanwhile, black people are asking, “Did he not hold the door because I’m black? Is she rude to everyone or just black people? Why is that man following me?”

        That’s funny. I’m white. If someone doesn’t hold the door for me I assume they are in a rush or are ignorant. If someone is rude to me I wonder if they are having a bad day or if they have issues. My wife is East Indian. She thinks the same way. We never haul race into life because often enough it is just perceived prejudice. We used to attend a black church. Hardly anyone talked to me or my wife about anything that was anything. We attended for three years. Did we think it was a race thing? No. Did we care? No. We chalked it up to us being the only one-family members there, so we left.

        Why be so sensitive about everything? You know it changes nothing, right?

        “Might be nothing. But if you’re black and live in the south, you’ve got to wonder.”

        Maybe. I been to the south enough to know that it isn’t as bad as people say either.

        “A latino chased down and shot an innocent black teen, and the Sheriff didn’t arrest him, drug test him, or even initially run a background check on him. You can’t just dismiss the racial element. You can only estimate to what degree it had a role.”

        Why can’t I dismiss the racial element? Was there not one black cop involved in this case? Are there no black cops in Florida that would have said anything to get this case moving along? Do you know that? And yes, I can only estimate to a degree. I, however, would rather estimate that not all people fit your ‘I am racist because I am not black’ cookie cut-out. I believe people to be largely reasonable and honest when it comes to enforcement of the law. I also watch my news here in Cleveland and see a black guy has murdered another white guy again. Despite this me and my wife only see that a ‘man’ shot and killed another ‘man’ today. That is all.

          • No, not yet. There are so many shootings involving guys in Cleveland on the East side that the police just can’t keep up. When the police do keep up it is called persecution.

  7. Coming soon: experts believe CCW laws should be repealed.
    The recent WI victory coupled with Heller and now the MD verdict means the entire country might soon be carrying, certain high tax marxist states exempted. Now we will have crackpot researchers providing the necessary data asked for.

  8. “Stats? Methodology? Protocol? Link? Nope.”

    That’s SOP for journalists these days. Sources are barely identified, unidentified or anonymous, and we’re just supposed to take their word for it. They tell us nothing about the credibility of the source or the methodology and we’re just supposed to take it on faith that their interpretation of the results is accurate.

    Yet they have the nerve to accuse bloggers of being untrustworthy sources who “just link” to news stories! At least bloggers are providing their sources, which often go beyond news stories. Any decent blogger would have linked to the studies.

  9. It is reported Zimmerman is a “wannabe cop” with a CCW acting as a “Watch Captain” in a Neighborhood Watch Group that was never registered with the local PD. Zimmerman has made hundreds of calls to 911 with the vast majority being regarded as “nuisance calls” by the local PD.
    He’s bent and acting-out his Cop Fantasies. He ferreted out a 17 year old kid (who’s only possible mistake was short-cutting through a gated community), talked/rationalized himself into cold-blooded murder and did the deed.
    Consider the classic “bell curve” and this Zimmerman belongs on the extreme end of people who should never have been allowed to wander around in public with a loaded gun. He needs to be arrested and tried by a Judge and Jury. I hope he rots in hell.

    • As I understand it, the kid was staying with his dad’s girlfriend, who lives in the gated community. Zimmerman (who is 28) apparently lives in his dad’s house in the same gated community. Not sure how that makes the kid an “interloper,” according to Farago’s post. I’m sure Zimmerman perceived him as such.

  10. “Martin is black; Zimmerman’s family says he is Hispanic.”

    Oh, it’s obvious that Martin is Black, but we’ll just have to take the family’s word that Zimmerman is Hispanic. These people have no shame.

    • Looks pretty hispanic to me. Quick, call the “how hispanic does this guy look?” expert. Guess the press wants to fire up Hispanics v. Blacks riots. Doesn’t seem like a good idea to me.

      • Looks pretty hispanic to me too. However, he apparently doesn’t look hispanic enough to “journalists” with an agenda to promote.

    • With a name like Zimmerman I thought he was possibly Jewish, and then I thought ‘oh-no’ here possibly comes some Crown Heights style race-riots to Florida.

      • Well, white is a race, and both Jewish and Hispanic are ethnicities (among other things), and given that someone can be mixed race and mixed ethnicity, he could be all three simultaneously. How’s that for race-war fuel?

        • Threes the charm. True, he could be all three. Lots of fronts for some angry person(s) to attack. I was p-r-o-f-i-l-i-n-g him with most American Jews being white. I have only met a handful of Hispanic Jews. I remember one Hispanic Jewish girl from high school. Her name was Clara. She was smoking hot!

        • How about we just drop all this “race” and “ethnicity” nonsense; Black, white, brown, yellow, pink, and blue aren’t races, they’re colors.

          Regardless of skin color, we all belong to the SAME species: Homo sapiens. Well, at least I do; I’m not sure about some of the people who have only recently started commenting here, since they can’t seem to grasp this simple concept.

            • “Andy says:

              March 21, 2012 at 15:21

              So racism isn’t real? It doesn’t damage societal health?”

              No, Andy. Racism is real. It just isn’t a part of every single thing you do in the run of a day. It is actually quite isolated (at least where I live in Cleveland it is). Me (White-Irish Canadian) and my wife (East Indian) and our (Irish-Indian) little girl have encountered just a peck of it.

              We have lived in Cleveland for six years and we generally love the people around us. We have about a dozen Black friends, five or six Indian friends, eight or so White friends, a Pakistani friend and even some Vietnamese friends. All of them are friends. All of them are completely on the level with us and you can see and feel that they are genuinely comfortable with us and each other.

              To be frank, the only racism I have encountered was standing just off my front step. A black man was yelling at his white girlfriend on my lawn and I had just put my kid to bed. I politely asked him to lower his voice, my kid is asleep. His reply was, “Suck my dick, Cracker. Don’t have me come in there and beat yo ass!” A call to the police and letting him know that coming into my house would result in grievous harm seemed to set the situation straight in a jiff. Haven’t seen him since.

              To be more frank. The only racism me and my wife have ever seen has been from Black people.

              I would like to point out that these folk usually hail from the East side of Cleveland. It is poor, uneducated, antiqued and a red rash with crime. Us mixed up races (or as I like to call us – people) here on the West side seem much more level and forward thinking.

              Do I think a mix of people is good for society? Yes. I think when you take just Blacks and put them together (as seen in the East side) you get ignorance and hate much like the old days when you had enclaves of White folk who never mixed and you would see much of the same ignorance and hate.

              That is all.

          • Yeah. I don’t get it either, HSR47. It feels like there is some secret world that I am not aware of. Some world that I cannot be a part of yet I live right smack in the middle of it and all these people that others want to keep reminding me are black or hispanic. Can’t I just keep on calling them Sara, Kim, Rhonda, Robert, Adam and my wife?

    • Actually, I believe the family made that statement because the police originally identified Zimmerman as being white.
      Also being hispanic puts Zimmerman in the minority classification.
      Which may be of some benefit to him and his attorney.
      Still, the surname Zimmerman suggest some white ancestry, which is probably the reason he was originally identified as white.

  11. Right now it’s still a bunch of people rushing to judgement without ANY understanding of the FL state statutes and with no verifiable facts. I feel like I’m reading the Huffington Post.

    • Even with Florida’s stand your ground laws and use of deadly force laws, he still needs to be a reluctant participant in the event. Zimmerman was anything but.

      • “AK says:

        March 21, 2012 at 10:57

        Even with Florida’s stand your ground laws and use of deadly force laws, he still needs to be a reluctant participant in the event. Zimmerman was anything but.”

        So says the media…

        • So says the 911 call where the dispatcher told him not to follow him and not to leave his vehicle.

          • “We don’t need you to do that” is not an order. I’m not certain 911 operators have the authority to issue an order. Let’s stick to facts.

            • I never said ordered him to do or not to do anything. The 911 operator told him they didn’t need him doing any of that, and he did it anyway.

              • And because the 911 op said not to that makes it okay? Because someone who has less training than a grocery clerk, in most cases, tells you no… you have to listen?

                Was the 911 op there? Does he or she have all the information of what happened ‘before’ the call?

                That’s it? Because 911 has it recorded it’s fact?

                Stop condeming and start looking for some answers. No one gets what they deserve when we all go ahead and just assume thats the way it was because the AP says so.

              • “Stop condeming and start looking for some answers. No one gets what they deserve when we all go ahead and just assume thats the way it was because the AP says so.”


                So far, I have seen no more compelling evidence than was available during the whole Duke lacrosse team rape scandal a few years ago.

                There, the mainstream media tried several young men in the court of public opinion, figuratively crucifying them, whilst branding them racists and rapists.

                Then actual facts of the case came to light, and it was shown that the prosecutor on the case had grossly violated fundamental ethics codes, and thereby grossly abused his prosecutorial discretion.

                I’m not saying that the same is the case here, just that when the media rushes to play judge, jury, and executioner in the court of public opinion, the actual evidence does not always match up to the claims of the mainstream media.

                In such cases where the facts and the claims do not match up (Like with the Duke scandal), the media offers up a token retraction, and moves on as quickly as they can, never doing a damned thing to undo the weeks or even months they put into destroying peoples’ lives.

                Realistically, what I’m saying here is that I don’t see a need to rush to judge Zimmerman before we have a clear understanding of all available facts; If the facts show he was unjustifed in his killing of Martin, then there’s plenty of rope to do the deed. If the facts show the opposite, then we will not have destroyed the life of an innocent man.

              • Unfortunately the media has already hung him facts be damned. So much for the justice system here. So if by the slim chance he is free of any wrong doing, I suppose a lot of the posters here would stand by their original opinion that he should “rot in Hell?”

              • Relax buuurr.

                I said Zimmerman was anything but a reluctant participant in the event, I never “condemned” him. By getting out of his car and following an individual he inserted himself into a situation, which in the public eye makes it hard for people to validate his self defense claim.

              • I am one of the only relaxed people here, Ak. I am not racial biased and don’t get myself all jacked up over anything involving the word black.

                Fact: We don’t have anything to go on right now.

                Fact: We will all see where this goes as HR has stated.

                Fact: It may or may not get more crazy in court than what we think.

  12. Zimmerman is innocent until proven otherwise. One thing we can all probably agree on is that the Sanford PD didn’t practice due diligence after the shooting. The most glaring thing was the lack of a blood test on the shooter. They also didn’t do a good job interviewing witnesses, etc. They couldn’t even find Mr. Martin’s cell phone at the scene, even though he clearly had it and was recorded as using it just before the incident.
    Biggest problem here is that the Sanford PD was ready to just call this self defense and shut the book when this is clearly a very murky incident.
    Kid had no record. Was suspended for tardiness, thats it. Was an A and B student. Was a known gearhead who loved working on engines. Went to aviation mechanic classes part time. No violence at school, no drug issues, no C’s on his report card. Had candy and tea in his pocket. Given all those circumstances, for the police to not investigate more thoroughly (until force to by a media circus) is inexplicably incompetent.
    Thats why so many people were pissed. No matter what issues are injected into this whole thing.. it boils down to this: when someone is shot to death by someone else in ambiguous circumstances, the police owe it to the victim, their family, the community, and the shooter to ensure that all the facts are known. They screwed up this time by leaving so many unanswered questions.

    • How do you know they didn’t investigate the situation more? As an on-going investigation, they are prohibited by law to release much of this information. Anything the media is reporting is just hearsay until you get it from an official source.

      • It is very obvious that the police did an incompetent job from the very start of the investigation. What we do know is that the victims body was tested for drugs and alcohol but not the shooters. The police did not even check Florida laws to see what laws applied to the particular situation. There was a rush to judgement that the Stand Your Ground Law applied in this situation and that is far from the truth. The shooter admitted on his 911 tape that he was following the victim and the victim had started to run. That is by his own admission a violation of the Florida law against assault. So that is one law that Zimmerman broke that the police failed to acknowledge during their investigation. I could poke more holds in their investigation but we all know what this police department is about. Makes me remember the Rodney King case when a man was beaten half to death before our eyes and the police said they were in fear for their lives.

  13. Because of the size of his penis, the well hung block captain naturally assumed that the child was as equally endowed, this led inevitably to the conclusion that the ‘punk’ was after the block captain’s wife, and thus was a mortal danger…according to the results of the ‘study’.

  14. Caffeinated: The Sanford PD actually announced that they had concluded and made their decision, but said the state was free to conduct an investigation if they wanted. They concluded their investigation for practical purposes the minute they decided not to run blood screening and not to secure the site. I believe you’re an LEO. To me this whole thing is of technical interest. By that I mean “what made this a SYG case? What should my local PD do in similar circumstances?” I already know our PD does not tolerate “pretend” Neighborhood Watch people. I’m using this to learn.

    • If they announced that then it is over on their part. The whole issue of chain of custody comes into play with toxicology. I’d like to give you good examples of what gets people off, but would rather not post it in a public forum. Let’s just say we don’t know if between the time of the shooting and when the first responding units arrive if Zimmerman had anything to drink, smoke, or otherwise. Despite how absurd that sounds, there have been cases lost and won through technicalities such as that.

      The whole SYG thing has to do with burden of proof lying with the investigating agency to gather enough PC to effect an arrest. Anything less would be an arrest in bad-faith. Arrest in bad faith = lawsuit and possible action by FDLE.
      While I support the SYG law, chasing someone down while acting as an armed citizen IS NOT Stand Your Ground.

      By all accounts Zimmerman sounds like a nuisance caller that floods 911 with frivolous calls and ties up public resources. I will say at least he cared enough about his neighborhood to do so. There is a fine line between neighborhood nuisance and vigilant citizen. From what I’m reading Zimmerman seems to be of the nuisance variety.

      • Examples too much sensitive info for the unwashed, yeah? Or are we pulling out ol’ mikey’s hidden criminals notion now? We’re not all jumpy zimmers, the blue veil thing is as insulting to law abiders as anything ol’ bunchanumbers brings to the table.

        • Zimmerman isn’t an example of anything except Zimmerman. Every day tens of thousands of people go out as participants in Neighborhood Watch groups, without incident. They report to the PD if they see something odd, and let the PD handle it. Everyday millions of people carry, and they don’t act like Zimm. Statistics actually prove that Zimm’s are very rare.

          • Precisely. And that is why the law abiders should feel insulted when law enforcement don’t want to discuss their special secrets with unknowns, an implication very similar to those the left makes about “gun nuts”.

            Like I said, we’re not all jumpy zimmers, those in blue among us just seem to stick to the air of suspicion they claim to hate when they get it from the left.

        • Sorry FOLLOWING THE LAW on releasing information about an ongoing investigation constitutes a “blue veil” to you. I guess it would be better if law enforcement didn’t adhere to the law.

          And no, I’m not going to spell out how to violate the law and escape via technicalities in a public forum.

          • I did not infer you meant you had specific details of this specific case, apologies if this is the case and no I would not exhort you to reveal privileged info on an ongoing investigation. I inferred reluctance for lowly civvies to learn of the “special” ways of the system in general, which are often not necessarily acted out in the best interest of law abiders caught in tough situations. Such as the gentleman that was recently exonerated for firing at the floor and daring to intimidate the criminal who illegally entered his home, that should have been handled differently from the beginning. But as a “civilian” he was not special enough.

            • Just sit through a couple of criminal trials. There is nothing secret about it. I just have no desire to spread it around on a public forum. Anyone can request transcripts. Again, there is NO secret.

      • I doubt whether Zimmerman cared so much about his neighborhood. He seems to be more of a nut case wanna be hero. In listening to the 911 tapes how could any reasonable person determine that a kid walking down the street is on drugs and up to no good. On top of that even determined that the kid was getting away with something even though there was not a shread of evidence that a crime had been committed. In his twisted delusional mind he was out there in his neighborhood night after night looking for criminals when all he had to do to find one was look in the mirror.

  15. Another day, another stupid “study.” Hey, University gerbils — study this. My experience is exactly opposite yours. When I’m holding a gun in my hands, I biased into thinking that the other guy is holding his balls.

  16. It is possible that for a small number of people holding a gun in a small number of cases it might be true that they are more likely to perceive the other person as holding or having a gun. Yet, how often is that true and to what degree in what way does it make a difference? Theoretically, perceiving someone (wrongly) holding a gun might lead to a person armed with a gun to back away and take cover ie not engage. Like most of the studies and claims by the loonies it seems like this one too is being taken out of context and used for gun control propaganda.

    (sarcasm on) Perhaps all those accidental police shootings of unarmed people needs to be revisted. Perhaps police officers should not carry guns since, according to the study, they may have a greater perception the other person has a gun too. (sarcasm off)

    I suspect that being a good cop (and living with the threat of personal danger on a daily basis) and being a good community watcher afraid of being physically harmed in their duties might put some human beings in a frame of mind with their nerves set, in a survival mode, to possibly over-react at times.

    • Why throw in “being a good community watcher”? Were you referring to a Neighborhood Watch member? Since when are they under threat? Why should their nerves be on edge?

  17. Race is only an issue if we make it an issue. This case has several variables that are not yet public knowledge, or have yet to be discovered as the investigation continues. From the bleak point of view that has been sold (yes, it is a business) by the media, Zimmerman looks as guilty as it gets. The fact that he has not yet faced an indictment does not mean that charges are not pending, or that the DA’s office has forgotten about it, just that the investigation has not run the full course.
    That said, it is my own humble opinion that we work as hard as possible to keep our own side of the street free of controversey.
    In other words, I think I should practice common sense in all aspects of my own daily life in order to avoid such an occurence. It would be easy for me to ascribe paranoia to the Zimmerman case and believe that I am far beyond that mindset, but all that would accomplish is opening myself up to the possibility of repeating the event. One commentor put it best with the words of his CCW instructor:
    We are ego-less wallflowers that avoid confrontation.
    That means I do not go looking for trouble. I do not jump in thinking I am going to be the shining knight when something looks odd. I do not do recon by fire when there is a noise in the back yard. I do not invite disaster for myself and my family by proactive measure.
    This case will become an issue for the National Reciprocity Act. The fact that a licensed carrier was involved in a suspect shooting that has gained international attention will be held in our faces as the media builds circus tents over the graves of the dead in order to better highlight the devestation and sell air time. This is another place that I feel we should show restraint.
    Let the investigation run the course. Let the evidence support or condemn and allow the court system to take this responsibility rather than doing it ourselves in what would be nothing short of a lynch mob type justice that will serve no sane order.
    It is bad enough that this is destined to become a political issue as the lives of those involved are thrown under the rolling wheels of the proverbial bus for the amusement of the general public.
    It almost always boils down to that.
    Ok, time for me to pull my happy ass off the soap box and go do what really confuses me- study. Have a great day!

      • In that case you are certainly correct and that public employee needs to be held accountable. As for the rest of us (who are just spectators), what is the issue? In a closer to home approach, what will cause one of us to initiate contact and perhaps pull the trigger in a situation that can quickly become fuel for the media fire?
        In all honesty I might just be wishing and thus projecting. please forgive my (flame deleted troll) mikeb moment.

      • Why is that? Do you know the sheriff personally? Actually the SA’s office is handling it. You might have caught that if you weren’t so busy race baiting.

          • He means you keep saying that all this happened because the kid was black. Everyone got all fired up because a white guy (who isn’t) shot a black guy – so says the gospel, The Media.

            The guy (not white anymore) wasn’t arrested because he wasn’t black (people are angry because they were duped into thinking him white ;P).

            The police closed the investigation because the victim was black (or as you would want it put – not white).

            Blah, blah, black…

            I think that’s what he means by race baiting.

            But again I will ask you. Who shot the white guy today in East Cleveland?

            Now ask why you haven’t heard about it in mainstream media.

          • You main concern seems to be race rather than what we know happened. Race really has a lot less to do with things than the media would have you believe.

  18. No, Zimmerman shot Trayvon because Zimmerman is likely a crazy loser with deep delusions of being a vigilante hero, and an utterly irresponsible human being who electively involved himself in something he had no business being involved in and who doesn’t understand how and why law enforcement is complex and therefore difficult.

    All of the 911 calls describe a man in a white shirt fighting with and on top of another person, which was Travyon (as Zimmerman’s own 911 call describes a person in a dark hoodie). One 911 call you hear a kid (likely Trayvon) crying for help repeatedly for what feels like an eternity then a shot and then silence.

    As far as I’m concerned if some moron neighborhood watch guy starts following (stalking) you and tries to restrain (assault/kidnap) you, you are well within your rights to defend yourself against HIM. He’s the one committing criminal acts against YOU.

    My impression is that castle doctrine and stand your ground laws are to protect people like Trayvon against legal repercussions of using deadly force to defend themselves when people like Zimmerman are committing life-threatening crimes against you. If you kill someone while committing a crime against them it’s not self defense, it’s murder, if you committed the crime due to stupidity and irresponsibility then that’s your problem, it doesn’t change what you did.


    • Has it come out that Zimmerman tried to illegally detain Trayvon and that Trayvon was just fighting back? Or are you pulling that out of your ass?

      Inquiring minds would like to know.

      • If one was to pull their head out of theirs and listen closely to all of the released 911 recordings, including the Zimmerman’s, the picture becomes clear.

    • You are one of the few people who have a grasp of what this case is all about.
      An “assault” is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent
      Zimmerman by his on words to the 911 operator is guilty of this and therefore cannot use the SYG law as a defense because that law only applies if you are not engaged in any unlawful activity. Bill Lee,the Chief of Police and the district attorney need to brush up on their understanding of Florida law are seek a new line of work.

  19. My take, and my take alone; Zimmerman seems to me to be your classic out of shape, over fed mall ninja looking to make a hero of himself. It appears to me that his actions were so tragically full of fail that I scarcely know where to begin.

    That said, the man is innocent until proven guilty. Let the grand jury weigh the evidence and decide where to go from there.

    • You obviously are fat and sedentary yourself, or else you wouldn’t make irrelevant comments about a man’s physiognamy. The teenage sprog attacked Zimmerman physically, punching him in the face. When the police arrived Zimmerman’s nose was bloody and he had a cut on the back of his head. The media conglomerates have hushed these testimonies and have lied about the witnesses. Those same witnesses live in that community which has been a target for perps, burglars and assailants, all of the negro race. Zimmerman did a good job and let’s hope we have a level-headed judge and jury to preside. Zimmerman is a HERO!

      • WELL SAID!! Were tired of our neighborhood’s being scalped by these non-working, free loading outcast! Florida is tired of these shade dwellers screwing up our sunshine state!! Good Job GEORGE!! Keep these theives out of our neighborhood’s!

  20. The investigation should proceed without preconceptions. Whenever we hear about these kinds of incidents, it almost always comes out there was a provocation or attack of some kind. To make every race-oriented is Sharpton’s M.O., but the overwhelming majority of attacked persons do NOT shoot others, even when robbed, raped, or terrorized. The young man was obviously not a saint sauntering down the street shot down at random by an evil racist. While that HAS happened, it is rare. The young man attacked a man who was armed and the man shot him.

    • The problem with that is that the DOJ has stepped in. Holder has an agenda to pursue and needs something to distract the goldfish-like attention span of the American public away from Fast and Furious.

  21. I have posed a question to two different firearms instructors over the last ten years.
    One instructor a retired cop. The other a currently practicing attorney.
    What happens when a verbal dispute becomes a grappling match and an unarmed attacker discovers the no longer concealed weapon and takes the opportunity
    To make Zimmermans weapon his. Their response was the same, better to be tried by 12 than carried by six. I’ve no doubts that a 17 year old football player can overwhelm a 28 year old working man with a suddenly vicious strike. What we DON’T know is if that kid tried to take that gun off the 28 year olds belt. Zimmerman MADE some poor decisions that night but being armed was not one of them NOR was maintaining control of his weapon in what to him was quite possibly the only fight he ever had in his life and could easily be construed as a life or death moment. I cringed when the feds got involved because the police knew it was self defense but the civil rights activists love a good fight even if they have to start it!

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