Forbes is a bit late to the post-Pulse nightclub “gays arming themselves for their own protection” story. But this beautifully produced video on The Pink Pistols makes the point: guns save lives.
The question here: does armed self-defense lead people to adopt conservative (small “c”) views? You’d think so; taking responsibility for your own defense an if not the first step towards disentangling yourself from faith in and reliance on government largesse. What do you reckon?
I think one’s politics is deep-seated in one’s personality.
Traumatic events can change POVs but rarely. So you are making a common mistake in assuming correlation equals causality
The basic difference between Liberals and Conservatives is fairly simple and yet profound:
Liberals “feel” their way through to solve problems and see people and human nature as they wish they were not as they are. Their leaders are mostly community organizers, academics, and teachers with little real world experience. Some few are elitist ego-maniacs who want to be monarchs like Bloomberg and Obama.
Conservatives “think” their way through to solve problems and see people and human nature as they really are. Their leaders are usually from the ranks of business owners, workers, soldiers, public safety, and executives with a lot of practical experience making theoretical plans work in the real world.
Arming yourself is just a logical solution to risk of being a victim that appeals to conservatives and shunned by liberals “cuz feelz!”.
You’re basically right about the personalities of liberals and conservatives. But politically, liberals look to government to provide for them and conservatives look to the individual. Once a liberal has that epiphany that the government can’t provide them with security it opens up questions about what else their trust in government might be misplaced.
Agreed. Collectivism Vs. Individualism. Buying a gun with the intent of self preservation is definitely a “gateway drug” to the individualist school of thought.
Sounds good on paper, but maybe you can explain the at times overwhelming collectivist mind set even here on this gun rights blog?
Humans are tribal creatures. We often reserve our sharpest wrath not for outsiders, but for members of the tribe who don’t conform.
In addition, most people want to be led (the question is how that leadership operates). An awful lot of people on both sides of American politics are perfectly fine with authoritarian government — provided the authority is on their side.
Ing, you’ve just described an apologist version for shredding the Bill of Rights. Both sides of the American political spectrum are controlled by the same people/interests, who have programmed people like yourself into believing individualism and individual rights somehow go against some collectivist grain of human nature.
Pg2,
The best I can answer that is “Birds of a feather…”. I would expect that the majority of a news or opinion type website’s traffic would be people that agree with the overall idea that that website presents, trolls excepted of course. If I were to go to ilovecats . com, then I would expect the comments to be overwhelmingly in line with that idea. Then again, if you so much as mention that .45 ACP is ,of course, the only worth while hand gun round on any gun site…(/sarc) Well, let’s just say collectivism goes out the proverbial window.
It can play out that way, rarely, but more often once a liberal realizes that government cannot take care of them, they don’t perceive that in term of the inherent limitations of government effectiveness.
Rather, they view it in terms of current configurations. That is, when government fails, a liberal isn’t likely to think “Hmm….I guess government can’t solve every problem. Time to become a conservative.” Instead, they think “Government failed because it didn’t have enough resources. Time for a new program, run by new government employees, and funded by new taxes and borrowing.”
There are still people running around a quarter+ century after the Wall came down claiming that the only reason communism has failed everywhere it’s been tried is that the “right” people are never in charge. They were out there a half century after his death claiming that the proof of Trotsky’s farsightedness is that none of his predictions have come true yet.
Even so-called conservatives think this way. That’s how we got the TSA, the National Director of Intelligence, and the Department of Homeland Security after the abject failure of 9-11.
Very few liberals can be rehabilitated. Those that are will have done too much damage and have too little time to make up for it later on.
For the leftist authoritarians, they just blame it on not having the right TOP MEN! You always have to have the right TOP MEN to create the laws and regulations to guide the stupid sheeple through their lives.
“… when government fails, a liberal isn’t likely to think ‘Hmm….I guess government can’t solve every problem. Time to become a conservative.’ Instead, they think ‘Government failed because it didn’t have enough resources. Time for a new program, run by new government employees, and funded by new taxes and borrowing.'”
^ This!
Every time a gun-grabber is forced to admit that gun-control does not work, they blame the failure on not having enough resources or a wide enough net. Tell a gun-grabber that gun-control has failed in Chicago: they respond that the failure is in Indiana where firearms are readily available and only a 30 minute drive from Chicago … and that gun-grabber will call for the very same gun-control in Indiana. And when gun-control in Indiana fails to stop the problem in Chicago, that gun-grabber will call for gun-control across the entire United States. And when that fails, the gun-grabber will call for gun-control across the entire globe. And when that fails, the gun-grabber will call for more resources across the entire globe.
I’m the only “millennial” I know who has read about 3,000 book pages and counting on the history of the KGB, Russian Revolution, and other communist insurrections, focusing a bit more on Western Europe in the 1920’s. The openness with which today’s university SJW crowd rhetorically copies, and even quotes these tyrannies truly comes to light once you’ve digested that much history. “We did not do enough, always more” has been their mantra since Marx himself.
Americans are not conservative in the European historical sense. Continental conservatism, epitomized by Joseph de Maistre, opponent of the French Revolution, English Liberalism and republicanism, argued that the foundations of society were Pope, King, and Hangman’s Noose. The yeomanry and serfs must never be armed.
American conservatism is a hybrid that has zero relationship to European Continental conservatism. Even Edmund Burke of Britain has little relationship to American conservatism. My sense is that when Americans use the term they mean self reliance and pro capitalism. Don’t forget that European conservatism regarded Protestantism and Capitalism as disruptive to the centrality and supremacy of the Roman Church and feudalism.
I think I have some special insight into this as a former left leaning teenager. My general personality did put me more toward the conservative spectrum since I always believed in personal responsibility and that if you screw up, it’s your own dang fault, but my education and experiences steered me toward the liberal spectrum. I would think things like “racism is mostly over.” in the country, then be hit with people saying “you can’t say that. Racism is alive and well.” and then figure who am I to think I know better than literally everyone else? I supported universal Healthcare, because everyone kept saying how great it is and the U.S. needs to get with the times, I didn’t care at all about abortion, I was big on environmental regulation and renewable energy, and still am to some extent, I was really big on the idea of the government funding college and universities.
But to the point, the one area where I was always opposed to was the vilification of guns, even though I supported some gun control, like universal registration. But through looking for opinions and facts about gun control and gun rights, I ended up finding a lot of well reasoned conservative websites and YouTube channels which gave me thoughts and ideas on subjects beyond gun control as well. It got me to think about abortion, and hear the facts about government subsidies for things like education, and it pulled me into the right wing. And The Truth About Guns was actually vital as it taught me how biased the media was and showed me that it’s not automatically just a crazy conspiracy theory to suggest that the media or the government are lying.
So in short, yeah. Guns can be a gateway into conservative thinking for anyone with an open mind, that would be anyone who doesn’t have a deep emotional investment into a particular ideology.
Yes. Guns have helped me “indoctrinate” otherwise liberal acquaintances.
Like they say, a conservative is just a liberal who’s been mugged.
That isn’t true. I’ve never been mugged.
I think it goes “A liberal is just a Conservative that hasn’t been mugged yet”.
And a “Libertarian” is a Republican who’s kid just got busted for possession of marijuana.
I’m a Libertarian. I run in Libertarian circles – I read blogs, magazines, and books to do with the subject, and I hear more about marijuana from people talking about Libertarians than I ever do from Libertarians talking. Its become a tired trope that people throw out to deflect from having to make any effort to inform themselves, or engage in any discussion that might change the views they already hold.
Lawful self-defense is a honey badger that doesn’t care which box you mark in a voting booth. Honey badger kills its opponent, then eats it. Bad guy wants you or your stuff, shoot to stop the threat, then vote lying Hillary to get liberal scotus judges, who will remove our 2A and install transgender bathrooms across the land. Or vote big C keep your guns and man watch outside the loo.
Interesting.
Being armed, trained and capable of taking care of one’s self does give great confidence and sense of self-worth, something Ive noticed many liberals lack (thus explaining why they’re liberals). Perhaps a survey of the Pink Pistols current and past members could shed some light on this??
How do they vote?
What do they do for a living? Do they still self-identify as homosexual? Have they cultivated friendships with conservatives? Have the since been ostracized by liberal friends?
Lots of questions.
Until the last generation no. There used to be a lot of fun toting liberals but over the last 20 years the Democrats have driven out pro-gun people just as they have purged the party of people opposed to abortion.
Not sure if “fun toting” was auto-correct or intentional, but it’s an appropriate expression.
Samsung autocorrect thinks guns are fun!
Well, it’s not wrong.
My views whilst in NYC up until about 30 were classic proggressive. Anti gun, pro welfare, it takes a village, yadda~yadda. About then I left and moved to Florida. My views over time have become while not entirely, much more conservative. Pro gun, anti welfare, live your own life-I’ll live mine. I have some liberal views left, but only on certain things that governments and legislators feel a need to have an iron grip on~control, control~ which need not be discussed on this forum. Did guns have something to do with this awakening? ………Yeah, I’d say so.
Enjoying anything that government has a habit of restricting tends to make one favor less government.
Lines got blurry when government decided to split into groups who each sought to take away certain things from certain people so now it’s not about keeping government from screwing us it’s about half of us using government to screw the other half of us even if the first half gets screwed collaterally.
I’d say, especially for gays, they’re more likely to become libertarian than conservative.
With “more likely to become libertarian”, you imply that gays want pot, though I’m no expert on gays or pot.
Drugs, drugs, blah, blah. There’s more to Libertarian philosophy than conservatism + drugs. For decades, the GOP was famously hostile to gays, minorities, women, and certain religious groups. The feeling persists that they are more or less just as hostile today, only after they make sure the mikes and cameras are off. Libertarians believe you should have all your rights: economic (business and property) and personal. You won’t find a Libertarian equivalent to Jerry Falwell or Anita Bryant, and libertarians appreciate that.
(I apologize in advance if this gets posted twice — I posted it previously, but despite refreshes, it just isn’t showing up.)
I think the gays are most likely to remain as gay and liberal as they’ve always been. Only now, they’ll be able to parlay their gun toting street cred into even more effective emotional pleas for more government intrusion, prefacing them with “I support the Second Amendment, but….” or “As a gun owner, I……”
If the gays want to strap on guns and start packing heat, so be it. That’s their natural right and probably a good idea. Just don’t expect me to hold out hope for their ideological revolution, nor to forget the damage their liberalism has already inflicted.
“Are Guns A Gateway to Conservative Thinking?”
Dunno.
Conservatism is logic that everyone will come to eventually. Hopefully NOT in a more littered eventuality, but wtf ever.
Think about how f’d up the world would be if everyone decided to be liberal.
I find that many self-defined conservatives are just as “big government” as liberals, they just have a different idea of how they want to spend your money.
Those particular people would be confusing conservative with Republican.
With gays and drug users in particular…note for 2017…re-authorization of the Ryan White bill (funding for HIV domestic and world wide) is 34 Billion dollars. Total value of all cases prevented by early treatment from 1996 to
2009 totaled roughly $128 billion (9.8 billion per year). Now a new bill to include dental for HIV patients is in the works.
Once liberals get a hold of government (our) money they remain in that camp forever. They are incapable of fending for themselves regardless of their actions or behavior.
You would think homosexuals and drug users would thank fellow taxpayers by supporting 2A
Agree. People that allow themselves to be labelled or label themselves and think inside of the current left vs right, conservative vs liberal, very small manufactured box are living a false illusion of choice.
No
I was amazed how not anti-gun ownership this video was. It came across in a remarkably balanced way which is commendable.
I don’t think that gun ownership makes anyone more conservative just as owning a LEAF is unlikely to make me wear Birkenstock and like patchouli oil. I think that coming in contact with things outside of our regular experiences gives us a chance to become better rounded, more balanced people.
Yes. Thinking about protecting my gun rights lead me to thinking about how I need to protect my other classical rights from government interference.
Not necessarily. I have met many black folks who spouted “Obama ain’t after my guns” when I (used to)question why they vote dumbocrat. Disconnected from reality. I have been conservative for most of my life with a brief detour during college and drug daze. I didn’t give a damn about guns one way or the other. Believing in JESUS and the concept of right and wrong also had a profound impact on my so-called conservatism. YMMV…
Yep. And that is why liberals are hoplophobic.
“. . . A Gateway to Conservative Thinking?” This strikes me as a counter-productive question to entertain. We might ask, just as well, whether guns are a gateway to becoming a carnivore or a vegetarian. Perhaps it is so; but why should we introduce the question into the national conversation?
We ought to follow the policy of the NRA insofar as we promote responsible gun ownership for the “necessary” purpose of securing a “free state”; self defense; and other lawful purposes such as sports. Perhaps our openness will invite folks of diverse orientations, persuasions, sentiments to take an interest in any such purpose. Clearly, the Pink Pistols exemplify a pleasant surprise.
What good – in respect of the 2A – does it do to suggest that becoming a PotG might alter one’s entrenched belief system? If they didn’t believe the conjecture they would still be put-off. If they thought there might be some truth to the conjecture they would be discouraged from pursuing the inquiry.
Our interest ought to be to have as many people as possible, from all viewpoints, become knowledgeable about guns and their special role in the American system of sovereignty vested in The People.
Yes, we acknowledge that just about any new experience is apt to have some subtle influence on one’s sentiments on other topics. Perhaps a committed vegetarian might develop an understanding of the argument of field-to-fork; but it’s not a prerequisite.
Yes and no.
If you own guns and follow what is being said about guns, it does not take long before you understand that Progressives (Democrats, liberals, whatever) are bald faced liars. Once you realize that, you start researching every talking point from their platform, and then you discover that it is mostly lies. After your belief system is proven wrong, where do you go? You cannot stay a Liberal, for they do not tolerate any measure of disloyalty. In my experience, conservatives overall tend to tolerate anyone who supports freedom and defends the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Sometimes, conservatism is the only place for disenfranchised liberals.
No, but guns may be a gateway to independent thinking, which is neither liberal nor conservative.
Conservatives and liberals can be (and often are) sheep, blithely following a leader or a group. The independent thinker is not part of the collective and forms his own opinions.
The problem for gun owners is that conservatives may embrace them, while liberals will demonize them. Liberal gun owners who are also 2A activists have to develop a thick skin to put up with that much abuse. Most can’t deal with being excommunicated from their insipid herd.
Because it’s easier for so-called conservatives to embrace guns and self-reliance, I have a great deal of respect for liberals who can do the same. They have a tougher row to hoe.
“Conservative” thinking is too broad a brush to paint with in this case. Can owning a gun instill a heightened sense of personal responsibility and respect for individualism, self-reliance, and a live-and-let-live attitude? Absolutely. The problem is that so many Americans have been conditioned to view such things as antagonistic buzzwords due to a multitude of cultural and educational failures. Language is key when taking a fence-sitter to the range, especially young folks. Get he/she to lighten up in an unfamiliar environment. Keep politics out of it. Make the experience “about guns” as little as possible while teaching someone to shoot, and you’d be surprised how easily some of them come around.
I agree with DO, Jonathan – Houston, and others on here. Most Progressives who tools-up are not going to change their stripes.
As I keep saying, their brains process the world and decide what to do based on altruism, fantasy, and emotion. Virtually all Progressives who finally, out of desperation, arm themselves will be reacting emotionally to their realization that they are vulnerable. And yet they will continue to expect that government will continue to take of them in every other way because that is what a good government is supposed to do (altruism) … and it feels good (emotion) to continue to shirk personal responsibility and place that on the shoulders of government. Finally, they will be convinced that government will have somehow have the resources (fantasy) to take care of them in every other way.
Admitting that government is not altruistic, is not all capable, does not have unlimited resources, and is not all caring requires going to a very dark place. Giving up all of that will not come easily.
Dear Brownells:
Because your lameass ad jumps all over the screen when I try to close it, or expands to cover all the content, I will NEVER buy anything from you ever again.
You tell em Steve. I’m sure they’re just as interested in your opinion as your duly elected representatives.
Budsgunshop is thrilled to welcome you as a customer!
It made me go from being liberal (no government intervention with social issues, yes government intervention with economic issues) to being moreso libertarian (live and let live).
If TTAG is bored and needs something to post other than what other concealed carriers are everyday carrying, they can go here and start combing through years of Clinton’s Podesta emails:
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/?q=Gun+control&mfrom=&mto=&title=¬itle=&date_from=&date_to=&nofrom=¬o=&count=50&sort=6#searchresult
+1,000
There are many gun owners – maybe some on this blog – who consider themselves to be “liberals” and if the Supreme Court were to reverse 2A, they would dutifully surrender their property to the state and turn in their neighbors who did not comply.
Many here will vote for Hillary Clinton even though they recognize that this will likely lead to restrictions on their rights or at least on the rights of their children.
“surrender their property…turn in their neighbors who did not comply.”
This, right here, is the defining attribute of most people who proudly label themselves “Progressive gun owners”, “Pro-gun Democrats”, etc. I encountered this mentality often during the post-Newtown panic buying, countless useful idiots, some of them gun owners, baffled that we all weren’t gleefully tossing our AR-15’s into the furnaces “for the common good.”
I had conservative beliefs before I was around guns. After I was around guns my views started to change. Now I have more libertarian views where I am more accepting of things that I don’t necessarily approve of. If someone wants to do that doesn’t hurt anyone then I don’t see why someone should tell them no. So if I want to buy a machine gun I should be able too.
No, not at all actually.
Conservatism is not a principled position. It literally means conserving – keeping things the way they are. As more progressive principles and policies are steadily adopted by “the left,” what was progressive yesterday is conservative today. Neither progressives nor conservatives truly understand the principles of liberty; they will both use the imaginary authority of the state to try to force some form of tyranny upon others.
Left and right are on the same side of the spectrum. Freedom is on the other side.
*rolls eyes
If you think Conservatism literally means “conserve” and think Progressive ideology means “to progress” you really need to hit the books again.
So explain how socialist policies once lambasted by the right, like welfare, social security, and Medicare, are conservative holy grails now. And why didn’t conservatives repeal the NFA and make the murder of unborn children illegal between 2000 and 2008 when they held all the cards? Why did they instead strengthen the surveillance state, institutionalize violations of the right to privacy at airports, and increase the size and scope of government?
I’ll tell you why.
It’s because conservatism, like progressivism, is a prepackaged set of beliefs that is not based on any rationally consistent principles. Conservatives, like progressives, are encouraged to follow the dogma of the day under the guise of enlightenment and rational thinking, but enough of their their positions are inconsistent and don’t stand up to simple rational tests, that it’s impossible to be a conservative unless you’ve memorized the conservative or progressive position on every issue.
Wake up and smell the freedom, conservatives. You are close – closer than the progressives, for sure – but not there yet.
For the tl;dr people:
Modern, North American conservatism and liberalism (as well as most of the other parties) have no set of principles to guide them. They simply follow/believe what the party believes even if it leads to conflicts/hypocrisy. If there were actual principles there would be a consistent logic, which there isn’t.
I would say yes’ish’. My father took me shooting a handful of times when I was a boy, but it wasn’t until my wife was pregnant with our first child that I purchased my first firearm. It was around that same time that I discovered the writings of Thomas Sowell. The confluence of those two things unquestionably changed my political views. While in truth I am much more of a libertarian than a traditional conservative (socially liberal to a point and extremely fiscally conservative) it is a far cry from the Democratic dogma with which I was raised and blindly followed for the first 28 years of my life.
It’s easy to think that, but I think it’s more the other way around. If you are more inclined to promote individual liberties and responsibilities, than you will be more open to yourself and others with owning and using firearms. There are many progressives/liberals I know of that think them owning firearms is fine, but others not so much. Or would quickly and easily give up the 2a if it means trading it for some greater good.
“them owning firearms is fine, but others not so much”
Another excellent point. I physically cringe when someone tells me “You’re absolutely someone I trust owning/being around guns” after a range trip or long conversation about my hobbies. Whether they realize it or not, that translates directly to: “You are a member of a special class of citizens I would gladly grant the privilege of firearms ownership to, were I and those like me totally in charge of America.” This sort of authoritarian Borgthink needs to die forever.
waffen:
While I agree to a point I don’t think that it’s really groupthink, though that term might be applicable. I think that it’s a certain number of people are straight out fearful of other people and therefore seek some level of control over those people by voting for elected representatives that are proposing to regulate the behavior of those who are feared.
You can’t have/do something because someone, somewhere might abuse it and harm others through or due to that abuse. People have to be protected from not just others but also from themselves.
At it’s core I think it’s fear of what other people might do with freedom combined with a general disdain for those people that drives this. That fear overrides everything else and the sense of superiority causes them to think they know better than everyone else. Therefore whatever it is that they want to do is what we should all do and if you don’t agree you’re just not smart enough to understand.
“it’s a certain number of people are straight out fearful of other people”
It very well could be (and probably is) psychological projection. They fear what they would do with immediate access to guns, so they want everyone else to be disarmed, just like them. It’s an attempt to make their mental disorder seem normal. What are the scenarios we hear these people shriek over most about concealed/campus carry? “Students will shoot each other over debates in the classroom! Killing each other over stolen parking spaces!” Both of these require a great deal of emotional instability and utter lack of self-control to do with a clear conscience. A huge chunk of the Progressive worldview is based on emotions. No sane person guided by logic and reason shoots someone over a parking space.
I would certainly agree with you here.
Projection is a possibility because it’s entirely reasonable to assume that they people know nothing about guns or how to handle them safely. So maybe they assume that if they were just to go buy a gun they’d be potentially dangerous and that such a thing applies to everyone?
Perhaps that’s why they’re always harping about extreme levels of training in order to be “certified” to purchase a gun?
I’ve met progs who are afraid of a cordless drill so maybe this isn’t so far off.
I would agree. I used to be a liberal—much more classical liberal than today’s hugbox-loving SJWs—but a few years living in a high-crime, welfare state-wrecked city for school gradually pushed me further right (or at least a more libertarian path), until Newtown happened.
I never supported gun control and in fact found firearms fascinating before I could afford them, but once the gun-grabbers started pouring out of the woodwork I saw finally what a sham modern liberalism had become, and I left with righteous indignation. I now own multiple guns, a carry permit, embraced unswerving patriotism, and am now an active duty Air Guard member. After moving to my current address, I updated my voter registration from Democrat to independent, but that part was never processed, incidentally. Hmmm.
When the Democrat Party mailed me a survey this spring, they asked me what my biggest concern about Donald Trump running for president was. My answer: “Hillary Clinton becoming president,” which I promptly sent back. Aside from one beg for money, they haven’t mailed me since. I will try to correct my affiliation after the election.
No. Gun ownership, specifically for the purpose of self/family defense, is a symptom not a cause.
When one buys a gun to defend themselves or others they’ve already embarked down the road of thinking in a more self-sufficient way. One who travels this path has already realized that other people are not necessarily going to be there to help and that responsibility for personal safety rests with the individual.
That recognition is the gateway to Conservative thought. The gun is merely a sign that such thinking has commenced. How much farther down that road the person will travel will depend on their POV and the POTG that they surround themselves with.
Well, guns won’t make you a conservative guy who is very religious and against abortion and gay people.
But they will make you free, both physical and psychical you now feel more confident to defend yourself against any kind of opression ur unfairness. You become a more freedom loving person who doesn’t want to be influenced by government that much but rather be left alone because you are a little bit more self-responsible with a gun in the house. You will question all regulations and limitations and want more of the sweet freedom you tasted. And that’s definetly a good thing, one worth fighting for. What else should you fight for if not your rights and your freedom?
I was somewhat liberal in my thinking for most of my life until I became involved in firearms about 8 years ago. Once I started reading up on gun rights, I began to read other sources than the mainstream media. When I saw that the mainstream media did not present the truth about a number of subjects, I became more and more disenchanted with the positions and “news” they presented. I always thought that being “liberal” meant that you were open minded. Obviously, that’s just not true.
I’m 24 now. At 21 I bought my first gun. I wasn’t raised with handguns or on hunting. Before I got seriously into firearms I was against civilians owning that certain class of semi auto rifles that are now a hot topic. That legality is no longer controversial for me, even though I still don’t own one. I still support my right to get married, and I support a woman’s right to choice. I wouldn’t say guns are a gateway into conservative views, but more of a window. I see the world through a different view. A start to thinking for one’s self.
All I’ve seen deciding to own a gun do to liberals is to move them from today’s warped meaning of that term to more classical liberalism. I shoot with the local Pink Pistols on occasion, and I’ve bumped into a fair number of Blue Steel Democrats, and the only difference between them and most other Democrats is a rabid insistence that the Second is just as important as the First. They also make a good case that in today’s world it is the conservative element we have to fear as far as the entire Bill of Rights goes, since conservatives over the last several decades have loved to chip away at the First, Fourth, and Fifth — and having recognized how threatened the Second is, they have been re-energized to work to defend the rest. That’s “conservative” in the proper sense, but not the political sense today.
BTW, the whole “liberals operate only on feelings” meme is pure BS; it’s no more true of them than of today’s “conservatives”.
In fact, that’s what has moved both liberal and conservative away from the traditional meaning into something warped.
For me, anecdotally, yes.
I was a staunch liberal, and while I did not directly oppose guns, I didn’t see the need to own an AR-15, and could not fathom opposition to most “common sense” gun reform.
I bought a shotgun to try out trap shooting. That was fun, so then I bought a .22 LR rifle..
Then I bought an AK.
All in under 4 months.
That was quick.
In just 4 short years I went from obnoxious gay liberal to checking off Republican on my voter registration just yesterday.
So, now I am an obnoxious gay conservative, live in Orlando, and cannot fathom why so many people are so resistant to individual rights, and personal freedom.
That being said, I may be a statistical outlier.