Daily Digest: Moose On The Lam Edition

Crosman MAR177 PCP Conversion Kit courtesy crosman.com

Dale writes: “In keeping with the site’s new interest in Airguns, you might find it interesting to know that Crosman makes a ‘10 meter precision PCP’ upper to fit on an AR lower.” Crosman says the upper has a removeable 10-round rotary magazine, rifled and choked free floating Lothar Walther™ barrel, airstripper, carry handle and a Picatinny rail system that accepts all mil-spec options for the sight system you prefer. $650 from Crosman. . .

Another data point in the question of “How big is an arsenal?” comes with the arrest of a Long Beach, New York man last Friday. Police arrived to investigate a disturbance call, and when the man let them into the house (whoops!), they discovered four assault weapons, four handguns, two shotguns, 38 large-capacity ammunition clips, and more than 4,700 rounds of ammo. The Long Beach Police Commissioner described it as an “arsenal” in a statement on Monday. What say you, AI? Is 10 guns and 5000 rounds of ammo enough to constitute an “arsenal?”

This one is just as Tom in Oregon sent it, because it really can’t be improved. “A moose hunter in Norway accidentally shot a man who was using the toilet. According to News.Sky.com, the rifleman was aiming for a moose, but his bullet pierced a wooden wall of a vacation home behind the animal and struck the man. The man, in his 70s, was rushed to the hospital by helicopter and his injury was not thought to be life-threatening. The hunter was detained for questioning. The moose escaped unharmed.”

Bill E. writes: “Amazon has introduced a new system where it will donate 0.5% of your total sale to a charity of your choice – at no cost to you or the charity. You can choose your charity, which includes several NRA programs, The Second Amendment Foundation, local pro-firearm organizations, and more. You just have to go to smile.amazon.com to make your purchases instead of the normal amazon.com. Other than that, everything works the same as it did before.” I set mine to the Revolutionary War Veterans Association, which is the organization that runs the Project Appleseed shoots.

TTAG believes in safety first as a general rule. I’ve been known to say “safety third.” That said, I think we’re in agreement that learning from the mistakes of others is better than making them yourself. In line with that thinking, I offer the following safety tip: You might wanna move.



  1. avatar davidw says:

    Crap, I just had a big order from amazon for a new scope and other stuff. Wish I knew about the charity thing beforehand. Oh well, next time for sure.

    1. avatar Steve says:

      Send it back, then buy it again. Amazon has a very generous return policy.

    2. avatar Jeremy S says:

      http://www.saf.org/amazon <<< when you go there, it looks just like amazon always does and nothing changes (prices all the same) except some amount of the sale goes to the Second Amendment Foundation

  2. avatar William Burke says:

    Thanks for the Smile.Amazon.com reminder; I’ve been meaning to do this for several months since first hearing about it. Does anyone know if, or how, you can transfer items you already have on your Amazon wish list over to this? I buy stuff from Amazon every month.

    1. avatar Matt in FL says:

      The way I understand it, nothing changes. You still use your existing account. So your wishlist on “amazon.com” should still be extant on “smile.amazon.com.”

      1. avatar Avid Reader says:

        I’ve been doing it for quite a while for the SAF.

      2. avatar blahpony says:

        Yep. saf.org/amazon is my link to access Amazon.

      3. avatar William Burke says:

        Thanks for the heads-up, Matt. It’s probably the case. I’ll find out in a few days.

  3. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

    10 firearms + 5,000 rounds= one good weekend. Damn I’m glad that boating accident took care of most of my belongings otherwise some anti types would call my old collection an armory.

    1. avatar Jay1987 says:

      Boating accidents are bad… dumb ass relative trying to get a gold digger to bang him is worse… that’s what befell most of my collection (including those gun my grand daddy and dad passed down to me)

  4. avatar tdiinva says:

    According to Webster’s one meaning of arsenal is a place where weapons are stored. Therefore the usage is correct in this case.

  5. avatar Backyardsniper says:

    I would venture to say that that video is faked, as tank rounds travel faster than any normal camera’s frame rates.

    1. avatar Jay1987 says:

      Depends on the tank…and the charge behind the shell since some guns run more like naval cannons or artillery than normal guns.

    2. avatar Jay1987 says:

      That said it looks like a T72-maybe T90 and if they are using old shells improperly stored they may not have the speed they used to.

      1. avatar William Burke says:

        Fake. It’s a telephoto shot, and it stays in focus the entire time. Can’t happen.

        1. avatar Taro Tsujimoto says:


    3. avatar Major says:

      Assuming the camera was recording at 30fps, and the tank was a significant distance away (which would explain the color fringing and distortion), the amount of angular motion blur would be minimal since it was pretty much a straight on shot. I.e. the further from perpendicular to the camera, the less blur.

      Or it could be fake. That round does look rather crisp.

      1. avatar pat says:

        Vid’s a good match for a BK-14M or 18M HEAT-FS (High Explosive Anti Tank – Fin Stabilized) round. Rebels frequently leave cameras on tripods filming known avenues of approach so they can get good tank-kill vids for propaganda purposes. Looks real to me.

        1. avatar William Burke says:

          Here’s what I can’t get away from: wouldn’t the camera have been completely destroyed? Sure seems like it to me.

  6. avatar Craig says:

    The saying is “Moose on the loose.”

    Arsenal = Military, Police, or Reservist weapons and ammo cache. Civilians have collections 😉

    1. avatar pyratemime says:

      So as a military officer are my personal arms an arsenal or a collection?

      1. avatar Craig says:

        Military or police issued = part of the M/P arsenal
        You bought it with your own money and keep it in your house = collection

  7. avatar Sixpack70 says:

    It doesn’t matter how many guns, ammo, or mags a person has, they can only effectively fire one at a time. The media acts like because there is more than one inanimate object that it increased the uber scary dangerousness of the guns!

    1. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

      “Have you ever jumped through the air shooting two pistols at once?” No “Have you ever fired your gun in the air while screaming, ahhhh” “No, I have not fired a gun into the air and screamed Ahhh”. One of the best movies ever.

      1. avatar Enzo says:

        “He says he found them”

        That part of the movie seems more appropriate to the arsenal paragraph =D

  8. avatar Steve says:

    Wait a tick… Brazos, the outspoken Liberal head of Amazon, is allowing money to be donated to the NRA?

    Wonder how long that will be allowed for…

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      BEZOS is his name, not Brazos.

      1. avatar Swarf says:

        And he likes money just as much as Howard Schultz.

    2. avatar Not So 1337 says:

      Hey, Amazon sells gun accessories, so he must not be that concerned with whatever agenda he’s spouting.

    3. avatar Nathanredbeard says:

      Has Bezos ever come out against guns? I wouldn’t be surprised if he had, but I would also expect to see it here and I never have.

      1. avatar William Burke says:

        He bought the WASHINGTON POST. I’m not aware of any public anti-gun sentiments he’s expressed, but can we take his purchase of the anti-2A WaPo as an indication?

        I don’t know for certain, but I know what I think.

        1. avatar Nathanredbeard says:

          And I would tend to agree with you. Looks like whenever he’s been asked before at a shareholder meeting, he avoided the question (which probably means he goes where the money flows)


  9. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    I must have watched that tank shot 20 times when it first came out. Any tank guys here? Fin stabilized projectile?
    I don’t know squat about tanks or their ammo.

    1. avatar Xanthro says:

      Most modern rounds are fin stabilized. The barrels are smooth bore, and thus the rounds require self stabilization. Smooth bore can reach a higher velocity.

      Anytime you see FS in the name of a round, it means fin stabilzed.
      For instance an APDSFS rounds is short for Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot Fin Stabilized.

      That video looks fake, but I’m not an video expert.

      1. avatar LongBeach says:

        When I read Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot Fin Stabilized, full chub was achieved. Fact.

      2. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

        Cool. Thanks for that.

    2. avatar BillC says:

      Also, the two primary tank rounds are the sabot, which just uses kinetic energy to penetrate armor. The other is HEAT, high explosive anti tank. HEAT uses a shape charge to focus the enegry of the blast to a literal point, like a RPG. HEAT rounds, wether they are rocket propelled or projected out of a tank gun, have to be fin stabilized to reduce rotation since a rotating HEAT round’s effectiveness is significantly reduced.

  10. avatar blahpony says:

    A moose once bit my sister.

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      You shouldn’t have smeared her in blueberry jam. She could have died, you know.

      1. avatar sagebrushracer says:

        The writers have been sacked

        1. avatar David PA/NJ says:

          The people who were responsible for firinf those who were sacked, have been sacked

    2. avatar Hasdrubal says:

      Møøse bites Kan be pretty nasti…

  11. avatar Conrad says:

    “Is 10 guns and 5000 rounds of ammo enough to constitute an “arsenal?””

    I didn’t know that was still possible in NY…

  12. avatar jwm says:

    Surefire cure for constipation. Shot in the can on the can?

  13. avatar NickS says:

    I’m no expert when it comes to analyzing video for signs of tampering, but I’ve got a pretty quick reaction-time when it comes to the print-screen key. That being said, the following is a link to a large-ish pic of the tank shell in the video at its closest point to the camera.


    1. avatar jwm says:

      That pic clearly shows the round is fin stabilised.

    2. avatar William Burke says:

      Well done. And you got me to change my mind; I no longer think the vid is fake.

      1. avatar Matt in FL says:

        I thought the whole “fake or not” conversation was interesting. It flitted across my tiny mind (it’s really small, it only took about two shakes), but I didn’t care. I just thought the video was cool.

        1. avatar William Burke says:

          The “fake or not” side comes from a cryptozoological forum I’m on, and one gets to see a ton of “Bigfoot” videos from YouTube and elsewhere.

          Not surprisingly, the vast majority are obvious fakes. Most of the rest are varyingly good fakes.

          Once in a while, however….

        2. avatar Matt in FL says:

          …you see one that’s cunning, but still fake, because Bigfoot doesn’t friggin’ exist?

        3. avatar William Burke says:

          Is that a question or a statement?

        4. avatar Matt in FL says:

          It was my conclusion to the sentence. So for me, it was a statement.

        5. avatar William Burke says:

          Well see, I would call that a difference of opinion, except it’s not my opinion. It would be like telling me a ’62 Mercury Comet did not exist.

        6. avatar Matt in FL says:

          Have you spent more or less time studying Bigfoot than the 10,000 hours you say you spent studying the Kennedy assassination?

        7. avatar William Burke says:


    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      Crosman makes solid products. Back in the ’70’s, my brother had a so-called “10 meter Olympic target rifle” It was CO2 charged, with a pump action rotary clip that held five pellets and plugged into the side of the receiver. We hardly ever shot it at 10 meters–it was too boringly accurate at that range, even with iron sights. 30 meters or so was a much more engaging range. Pretty deadly on rabbits and grackles too.

    2. avatar Matt in FL says:

      Well, would you look at that. I honestly didn’t even think to look for an older post on this item.

  14. avatar LongBeach says:

    Had that been the real LBPD that discovered aforementioned ‘arsenal’ they wouldn’t bat an eyelash. I speak of course of the LBC popo. You all might think that Cali is one big aint-gun liberal hippie wasteland, but people in LB are tooled up a lot better than you might think. A big plus is that the LBPD spends most of their time going after real criminals and not pulling people over for going 47 in a 45. I ‘interacted’ on more than a few occasions with the LBPD in regards to neighborhood rowdiness, and on most of those occasions, after inquiring about their duty weapons, I ended up debating the relative virtues of 9mm vs 45, and which 12ga loads were best for a suburban/urban environment. Can’t really say anything about them or their regard for the 2nd Amendment.

  15. avatar AlphaGeek says:

    If you can fit all of your firearms into a Sentry gun safe you bought at Home Depot (not scoffing, I own at least one) then it’s not a fscking arsenal.

    When you have a fortified room entirely occupied by your collection, and you rent one or more storage containers to hold your ammo, and you have your own assigned rep at ATK… Then you probably have an arsenal.

  16. avatar JamesG says:

    I know ammo is expensive, but $650 for an airgun upper seems rather expensive. I can buy a whole new ar-15 for that kind of money. Or if want to go the airgun route, could use that $650 on a big bore air rifle.

    1. avatar Stinkeye says:

      Yeah, but you probably can’t shoot that whole new AR in your basement… Well, you could, but it wouldn’t be great for you or the basement.

      1. avatar JamesG says:

        That may be true, but I don’t see why I wouldn’t just get the M4-177 instead. I know that this thing is match grade, but if I’m so into airgunning I don’t see why I wouldn’t just get a dedicated competition air rifle. I just can’t help but feel that this product kinda misses its mark.

  17. avatar Gene says:

    No, not an arsenal. What that dude has (had?) is called a good weekend at the range.

  18. avatar John says:

    If ten firearms and 5000 rounds is an arsenal, then I must qualify for a world superpower status :-p

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      You’re right behind Tunisia.

  19. avatar William Burke says:

    Let me tell you about this Kool-Ade drinker friend of mine. Known him since 1966. That’s a real long time, by anyone’s accounting.

    Long story short, I finally got sick of the cookie-cutter links: “Tea Baggers are the real problem”, “Progressives will save us”, etc, bull hockey. He told me to stop emailing him, and I finally cut the cord. 47 years is a LONG time, but it was overdue.

    One of the greatest face-palm moments of my life: when I was moving back east from NM, only had a van to pack my possessions (heretofore to be referred to as “shit”) in. Like I’ve always done when I move, I left a lot behind. A LOT. But it keeps from accumulating more stuff than you can deal with.

    I thought I’d brought everything REALLY worth squeezing into that van (with 4 people). It wasn’t for over a year – here’s the face-palm moment – that I suddenly realized I’d left behind 3 300-round, sealed packs of M-855. I can’t DESCRIBE to you the feeling at that moment. If there’d been a well, I might have jumped in.

    So I mentioned this to That Guy. His response, and I SWEAR this is accurate: “What were you going to do with 900 rounds of ammo?”

    SWEAR TO GOD. My answer – as any one of you would have said, was, “SHOOT IT, EVENTUALLY! WTF DO YOU THINK AMMO IS FOR?”

    1. avatar jwm says:

      “What are you going to do with 900 rounds of ammo?”

      Regret that I don’t have 1000.

      1. avatar Matt in FL says:

        “Put it in a dimly lit room with some wine and soft music and hope it makes more.”

    2. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

      Fill another 30 mags, get a couple more fat 50 ammo cans to store them in, label them, rotate the stock.

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