If the pit bulls had attacked the beagle it would be dead. As for cop, he shot the dog because he felt like it and knew he would get away with it. A pit bull covers approximately 36 feet per second. With the officers’s half-assed demeanor an attacking pit bull would have hit him with enough force to at least stagger him, possibly knock him to the ground/and or disarm him.
Yeah, it’s unfortunate that it has to come to that sometimes, but people are stupid.
I’m referring, of course, to the owners of the dogs running loose. At least there’s video footage of the beagle and residents being threatened and the cop being charged to combat the inevitable “they’re so sweet, they wouldn’t hurt a fly” complaints.
First off, as a dog owner it is your responsibility to secure your dogs. Unfortunately it appears as if this owner is having some issues in this department.
That being said these dogs showed zero signs of aggression toward any of the people or the chained beagle. (only ignorant hateful assholes chain there dogs & there are now laws against it here in TX) And anyone who thinks these dogs where being aggressive needs to have the “situational awareness” re-evaluated in a big way.
These p*&^y a&*^!! cops who shoot first when it comes to dogs are a damn joke, violent dogs need to be dealt with but not all dogs are violent and these 2 showed no signs of being so.
And Mr. Camera man if you so are so worried about your dogs safety why not put the camera down and go protect your dog, you sir are as much a joke as the trigger happy officer who pulled the trigger.
Zero signs of aggression? Did you watch the same video I did? The one where the black dog had clearly decided that the back yard was his property, and ran over to defend it from the humans when they started to walk in? The one where the black dog charged and snarled and snapped at the broom in the guy’s hand?
Snarling? What snarling? And as far as barking goes, if thats a sign of aggression then all dogs should be shot? The dog also didn’t charge when a dog charges its on “body lowered, stance widened, tail down” thats a dog charge this dog was merely coming over to see what was up. Curiosity is not violence.
That sound the dog was making as he snapped at the rake/broom? That’s what is known as snarling. He barked at the guy, then at 1:25, growled, snapped, snarled at, and then retreated from the broom, twice, and then backed away and resumed barking. Curiosity is not violence. Growling, snarling, and snapping is violence, and when it’s in my yard, is unacceptable.
Ok, Re-watched the video, the dog did snarl but the dog did not charge “my dogs actually make the same noises when I am sweeping, raking etc” I guess what I am trying to convey here is when dogs go bad they tend to go real bad, the dog didn’t grab the rake the dog didn’t truly charge any one, the beagle wasn’t attacked at all from what I can tell, and this debacle just reeked of these “concerned” neighbors trying to get these dogs killed, and thats not right. The owner should of been cited for not properly containing the animals & animal control should of been called, If the dogs where confiscated and then deemed too aggressive to go on to new homes then so be it. But as someone who has spent there entire life around dogs “mainly terriers & few pit bulls”, these 2 weren’t bad news given with everything I saw on the video I would of gone sat down in that yard and scratched there ears. The neighbors for one reason or another feared and didn’t trust these dogs the dogs then of course keyed into this and became wary themselves. The big thing here is that there are far to many LEO’s who are far to trigger happy with dogs “especially pit bulls”.
If you want some insight into genuine pit bull behavior talk to your parents & grandparents, they for decades where considered to be the nanny dog that was left with small children to protect and play with them. Unfortunately the ghetto fabulous homeboys, dog fighting and bad ownership & upbringing have given the breed a very bad wrap, not to mention some highly publicized accounts of pack mentality and a bad group of dogs. Kinda like the same stories the brady camp likes to throw around when an unfit gun owner does something stupid.
FLAME DELETED Animals are not people. I suppose I have a duty to ask a home invader if the gun they’re threatening me with is actually real before I defend myself from the threat?
Can’t stand PETA so no thanks. I am in no way saying that you should not protect yourself if u feel your life or well being or the same of any loved ones is in danger.FLAME DELETED
FLAME DELETED – IF A BIG ANGRY THING WITH BIG TEETH MAKE LIKE HURT YOU, YOU HURT IT SO IT NOT HURT YOU. RABIES CAN KILL YOU QUICKLY.
Who said anything about the dogs being rabid? Let me guess same dude who told you Obama is coming for your guns huh?
Oh sure lemme call and see if there’s any openings at vet school so I know I’m doing the right thing stopping this charging animal.
Sarcasm, I was lard wrestling with penn and teller when you were in diapers.
Jake, Thank you for elucidating the problem here. I hope RF does not delete your posts. If your reference to me being in diapers is meant to convey that you are older than me, I doubt it. But even so, doing something longer does not make it right. Many so called “experts” have been doing it wrong for a lifetime and bragging about it. As the saying goes, there’s no foo like an old fool.
FLAME DELETED Not once did I say PETA does not kill animals, only that the type of people that value animals more than people generally move towards them. As little sense as that makes.
Okay so someone is only qualified to defend themselves from an attacking animal once they have taken a class on recognizing the proper aggression signals of each different type of animal so you don’t commit what, negligent murder of an animal?
FLAME DELETED
FLAME DELETED. WARNING: PERSISTENT FLAMERS ARE BANNED FROM THIS SITE
Sorry but every reply I’ve gotten here has sounded like every “Oh don’t worry, he doesn’t bite, I don’t need to follow the rules because I’m a dog whisperer” I’ve gotten from irresponsible dog owners before getting attacked. Which has happened several times, EVERY time with no “provocation” and much of the time with me some distance from an animal that perked up and decided to charge and attack me. I have read hundreds of posts on here in the last few weeks, hundreds of pages of posts, and this is the LEAST logical sense I’ve seen from this ostensibly pro-freedom community. Have your freedom, as long as you don’t hurt the poor poochies trying to attack you while you attempt to stop them from maiming your properly leashed dog. I’ve read dozens of arguments around here that call for less aggression from a HUMAN before deadly retaliation becomes necessary.
So if the community is so respected by you and several people experienced with both dogs and this particular breed are trying to point out and demonstrate that these animals where not being aggressive and that they in no way posed an imminent threat to anyone you ignore it and adopt a “shoot first is the only answer” mentality. This in my opinion demonstrates an unwillingness to better your self, your situational awareness, and the financial & physical safety of you and your loved ones.
If you are dealing with a violent, snarling or rabid animal then yes shoot, shoot quickly, shoot well, and then feel free to be angered at the dogs owner that both you and the animal were put into that situation.
I have made none of the assertions you attribute to me, and any reply that does not pay fealty and beg your wisdom will elicit “BLACK HELICOPTER ALEX JONESER FREAK” so why bother?
You go ahead and stick your hand out to give skritchies to every pit you see behaving this way, I guarantee you will not get bit, some of the time.
The best part is if this were a gun post everyone would be quick to include the “don’t take my word for it, research it and talk in person to someone who knows what they are doing” in every discussion, but not about toothy carnivores! Let’s pontificate away!
Well when you tell a pro 2a TX gun owner to go back to PETA “the brady bunch of the pet world”. Its a little offensive, its basically like calling me a stupid granola crunch hippie. And anyone who calls a gun toting texan a hippie must be in an underground bunker in montana sitting on a case of 7.62 while reffering to there AK as “precious” when not adjusting there tinfoil hat. Just sayin…..
Oh god for the last time the PETA thing was a sarcastic joke, jeez. I was implying you value the dog more than the homeowner, which your comments kind of showed.
And as far as the rest of your post goes, if you have been the victim of what sounds like several dog attacks, you obviously suffer from some ongoing underlying anxiety when around them. Unfortunately the dogs sense this they go on edge as do you and the situation unfortunately escalates into a very bad situation. Dogs have INCREDIBLE situational awareness, unfortunately it is backed up by a rather instinctive & animalistic thought process. They go straight to the big two Fight or Flight, and with you obviously having some hesitation & leeriness which is interpreted as fear “which if your past encounters are true and correct you have no reason to be ashamed about” by the incredibly black & white decision process of a canine which then ticks the box for a predatorial response which means FIGHT and its on. You have 2 choices avoid all contact with dogs to the best of your ability or go out and get yourself a pup raise it right and learn to respect and understand them. My dogs are my families first line of defense and the only alarm system on my home, when out in public they are also a huge portion of my situational awareness and OODA loop. They will always pick up on stuff long before we will.
Oh man now we’re going full MikeB circle to victim blaming. I don’t give a hoot what dogs “pick up on” as in several of these instances I was not aware of the animal until it was very near. Cue blaming me for not being aware of absolutely everything around me (some earlier instances occurred when I was a child) in a city of 10 million. As far as making completely baseless psychological assertions, I like dogs and spend quite a bit of time around friendly, properly trained and properly RESTRAINED animals. I have personally hugged the biggest living cat on the planet with my own arms and count that among my more exhilarating animal experiences. My comments are all directed at the undeserved response to THIS cop and THESE homeowners. They should have used spray? How do you know they had it? They aren’t rabid? Not foaming does NOT mean not carrying! And the Beagle isn’t in pieces yet, and might never be, but lets just wait around while the poor small restrained beagle gives himself a heart attack over the possibility. Do I wait ’til the tweaker has my child’s throat in his hands or do I shoot as he lunges at my child?
I am not affronting YOUR dogs, as you seem to have interpreted my entire discussion here.
Never mind, *sigh* obviously there is no point attempting to have a logical or civil discussion with you. Good luck, carry on & stay calm. And keep comparing the commenters on here to mikeb that will do wonders for you.
You didn’t read past “mikeb” as that was the least civil term in the paragraph. Oh well, I guess some just love their dogs more than strange people, can’t blame them.
If you’d replied to a SINGLE thing I said then I could stop bringing The Unmentionable up as then you wouldn’t have been arguing like him so much.
“And anyone who thinks these dogs where being aggressive needs to have the “situational awareness” re-evaluated in a big way.”
I’m with Jay on this one. I have no problem with having to shoot dogs in certain situations, but I don’t think this was one of them. However, this was an incident in which using a spray on the dogs would have been perfect. That dog would have hightailed it out of there. And if by some crazy chance it didn’t have the desired reaction, then shoot it.
As a dog owner I feel bad for the dog. however they were in someone else’s yard and already attacked the other dog. The dog advanced towards the officer. Those are the facts. Everything else is an assumption. Even the dog whisperer has been bit a few times.
The officer can’t wait until the dog bites him before to defending himself. That would be like saying you can’t defend yourself until you’ve been hit, stabbed or shot. He felt threatened and made a judgement. I highly doubt he wanted to or enjoyed shooting the dog.
Fending off!!!!!! Fending off a dog that is just fucking standing there? Wow u must be one high speed low drag stone cold killer huh? Yes unequivocally that persons life was in danger!
Without any context, I don’t know what is going on. From what I can piece together, the cameraman’s beagle was being harassed by the two other dogs. The thing I don’t understand is, were these animals strays that wandered on his property? Was this a neighbor’s dog that had broken off its chain? As for the cop, it seems he provided an impromptu euthanasia service for the dog. He felt threatened when the dog ran towards him so he shot. An unfortunate series of events for sure.
First of all, why the fuck can’t people hold a camera steady? What is so difficult? No wonder most people can’t shoot for shit.
Okay, enough with that.
As a dog lover, I hate this. A couple of abused and neglected pit bulls owned by some low-life puke, probably for one reason only. It’s an untenable situation … unless we can agree on euthanizing the owner. I’d like to see that video.
Yeah if animal control had more people and could have gotten there instead of one cop being spared. Maybe if the owner wasn’t such a jerk, maybe if the dogs hadn’t arbitrarily decided that yard was now theirs and that smaller animal was now an object for their amusement. Maybe the cop and the homeowner are quite the LAST people to blame here. They reacted to the situation they were presented, they have NO responsibility for the situation having gotten to the point it did when the video started rolling.
I apparently live in a different universe than some of you. If I exit my house and there is a dog snarling, off leash, intimidating me on my property, that dog is dead if his owner does not immediately appear and gain control of the hound. We had a case of that on my street four years ago. Rottweilers raised by a well known rock singer who now fashions herself the ‘godmother of soul’ escaped her property’s 7 foot high gates, chasing my neighbor and her chocolate lab (on leash) onto a nearby UPS truck. That never happened again. I would also suggest the LEO shoot with two hands. The dog will go down faster, most likely. I love dogs under the control of their owners. Aggressive dogs off leash? They’re no different than muggers. I don’t pay taxes to suffer that sort of BS.
On a slightly different note, the cop takes two shots and wounds one dog. A third to put it out of its misery would have been a good idea. But it just goes to show you the limitations of a handgun. Granted, the cop didn’t seem too concerned about shot placement, but if the dog had been more motivated, or the second dog came in to attack, this encounter might have been a lot messier. I’d treat threatening dogs like armed human attackers — keep shooting until the threat is stopped.
Jay, most people, even vociferous dog owners, just do not understand dogs. Most are afraid of them and don’t realize what the media has done to certain breeds, just as they regularly do to gun owners, high cap mags, black rifles etc. They will cry foul at being portrayed unrealistically, but fail to recognize when it is done to anyone else.
Obviously this situation was the dog owner’s fault, and it’s no one else’s job to coddle his beasts, but it just makes me hate cops all the more. Pepper spray would have repelled the dogs and given them a healthy respect for the uniformed killers.
As CCW holders we are always taught to use just the force necessary to repel the threat against another human. Pepper spray, taser, whatever, escalating until lethal force is needed. Since the same justification is not needed with animals many people just think every loose dog that barks at them should be shot – mostly because they can get away with it. They are just cowards, plain and simple.
I live in a rural area and the neighbors donkey got out two days ago. It was running down the street and went onto another property. I chased him down and (no bridle) took him under the neck, leading him back home. When he did not want to go in I blocked him and pushed his ass (pun) to get him in. He might have bit me, kicked me or trampled me… maybe. Being as I was armed I should probably have tested out my carry ammo and shot him since I could get away with it right?
TROLLING DELETED The more people I meet the more I love my dogs.
Did the donkey charge at you, rear and stomp the ground with all its heavier than thou weight mere inches from you? Closest I can come to a growling, jaw snapping, possibly diseased menace coming at me in my own backyard with an ungulate as the example.
I was one of the first to have a great guffaw at this obliviously handled incident. One guy with a police rem700 would have done nicely and kept everyone safe from the trampling that might have happened if the officers had somehow been even MORE careless. I’ve seen MikeB bring up more relevant stuff in his “supporting arguments” that are usually irrelevant to the argument.
Agreed, and donkey’s can be f%*&ng honery and mean. My in laws had one named Andy he was a royal prick, until he went to auction that is.
What u said is true entirely to many people who carry “professionals included” are just looking for an excuse to pull the trigger. That ladies and gentleman is not our responsibility if it comes down to that so be it. But our primary responsibility is to avoid that at all costs.
To be honest a round in the dirt would of probably sent them running for the hills, most dogs unless trained to hunt or be involved with combat are terrified of loud noises like gun shots. Hell a loud booming NO would of most likely caused these two to check up.
No worries about safety with a round in the ground? You don’t give “warning shots” since you are accountable for every bullet leaving your gun – I presume the LEO is under similar constraints.
Watching this made my stomach turn. As a dog owner, and lover – I hated this. I would have preferred OC to a gun. But it is the owners of the dogs who are ultimately responsible.
Some good points. Similar justifications for the use of deadly force must be applied to non-human animals as well. It’s hard to be objective without seeing more than the shaky camera shows, but it seems that there was little imminent threat to the beagle (looked more like harassment then predatory aggression) and no imminent threat to the humans. Yes, there was territorial aggression, which is why you don’t walk into the middle of the situation or poke a stick at the dog, which will make any excited animal snarl and snap.
Better trained officers and animal control staff could probably have diffused the situation.
And yeah, pepper spray is a damn no-brainer. I’ve worked in with pit bulls in inner city shelters and find it really hard to believe that it wouldn’t have been a deterrent.
Keep in mind when police go out to a call they are already just trying to make the best of a less than crappy situation. When it comes to dogs that size it sucks but you just cant take the chance that it grabs you. I personally know a female officer that had a pit bull charge her, didn’t take a shot, and now she only has one arm. After it grabbed her it was shot three times by another officer that showed up shortly after before it let go. Thankfully she was able to stay with the department doing a desk job, but her life was changed forever.
Moral of the story… People need to be responsible for their pets (and their actions, etc.) because no human should risk permanent injury over someone else’ incompetence or behavior. At least that’s the way I see it.
All handguns (pit bulls) are evil. Most shootings, robberies, suicides etc are committed by handguns, not their owners. All handguns should be destroyed on sight, without question. It should be done by uniformed cops. Substitute video of Jared Loughner. More cops are killed by handguns than pit bulls. Not so nice when it’s applied to eh Mr Bond? (Not talking to you RF)
Pit bulls, rottweilers, and some other large dogs are not like handguns. They actually attack all by themselves without (usually) any human pulling their trigger. Imagine if a little kid had wandered by the yard. We have strict laws about dogs-on-leash where I live. Two miles away, in the city, aggressive dogs are routinely used to intimidate people. The owners don’t realize it is simply a classic tort-law assault. Scare me with your dog? Knowingly let your dog intimidate me? It’s going to cost you. A lot. You’ll be in civil court.
Ropingdown, you go from dogs attacking on their own to wanting to take me to court for intimidating you with my dog. Which is it? Dogs that are bred, raised and owned are the responsibility of the owners. And just like guns, they are often tools that can be misused.
If a little kid wandered into the yard unleashed and out of the control of his parents he should be shot right? Wasn’t there just a shooting by a third grader with a handgun in his back pack? That kid was a demonstrably greater hazard to humans than any of those dogs. That is your logic. Oh wait, we can’t do that to people. Any cop that showed up and shot that kid would be branded a coward.
There are obviously anti doggers just as there are anti gunners. You can’t even see that you are using the same arguments.
Animals are not people, and there is no constitutionally protected right to have a dog. Equating defending yourself from an attacking animal in your doorway with child murder is….. whatever term for “sick” is acceptable to the mods.
The dog did not bite anyone. The kid shot another kid. Anti gunners often call it “sick” when you use their own logic to show them how ridiculous it is.
I guess I’m done posting here if my suggestion to “do some reading” is deleted as flaming while I’m entitled to get called “sick” for responding in a civil, readable manner.
“If a little kid wandered into the yard unleashed and out of the control of his parents he should be shot right?” I assume was a sarcastic jab implying the comment it was in reply to would ostensibly support child murder. Equating killing an attacking animal with murdering a child is… poor reasoning then? Whatever term you want to use killing a dog that could hurt or kill you is not the same as walking up to a human kid and killing it.
Not worth it anymore. Shoot away. You’re not right, but it’s your right.
Which is it? Both. Let an aggressive dog of any breed roam my yard and try to chase me back in my own house? Walk an aggressive dog that growls at me and forces me off the sidewalk? Both are inexcusable. Both are common in parts of the city. You have no more right to let your dog assault me (tort: put me in immediate fear of harmful bodily contact) than you yourself to assault me. I’ve raised labs to fetch ducks for twenty-one years. I’ve never been harassed by a dog in the field. But for some inexplicable reason, there are people in the suburbs and city who think they have a right to maintain an aggressive dog and let it growl and approach passers-by. Your mixing up kids-with-guns and the dog post makes no sense. It is unfortunate, but there are many people who pretend to respect their neighbors, but who get obvious joy from seeing their dominate little hound bully people and other dogs. I have no sympathy for such people. I love dogs bred and trained to respect people and serve a working function. If you have a guard dog or fighting dog, keep it fenced and locked or on a very strong and short leash. It’s no my idea, it’s the law’s idea.
“It’s no (sic) my idea, it’s the law’s idea.”
Now there’s a good argument! Hopefully “the law” won’t decide you no longer have the right to defend yourself. Jake asked what would happen if a little kid wandered into the yard. Not me. I just turned the argument back on him. Which animal PROVED a greater threat to others? The dog that barked or the kid who shot another kid? I’m not saying the kid should be shot. I’m saying it would be just as cowardly and trigger happy as shooting that dog was.
When they come to take your guns, people, they will be using the same arguments you are using here to justify killing that animal, and banning/sterilizing breeds that are SCARY. If you can’t see that I give up. You can’t only use a line of reasoning when it suits your end.
And that’s why my dogs and I are out in the country behind a high fence marked “No Trespassing”.
Just the same the owners of those dogs should be on the “irresponsible dog owner of the day” page .
Looks like you misspelled “ignoring” as “turned around”. Nobody said anything about banning or sterilizing breeds, one of the nicest dogs I ever met was also the meanest pitbull I ever saw. This, AGAIN, is about THESE dogs, and THESE homeowners. Two unleashed dogs of unknown or no ownership, unleashed, unrestrained, also UNLEASHED, making attempts to attack homeowners on their own property. What, they should have locked the doors and whatever might have happened to their own pooch, well tough as long as we protect the sweet innocent intruders? You have not addressed a single point brought up because you know you’re essentially making the “you don’t need to shoot anyone/thing to defend yourself” grabber argument without realizing it. People play armchair criminologists and pick apart the decisions of DGUers all day every day, and we justly vilify them for it, you’re just playing the same game with a different ball.
I won’t argue with the decision to shoot the dog, but I despise the cop’s inhumane sloppy shooting. There was zero reason not to aim carefully and make a one-shot kill.
Where I work a deputy who is a patient of mine told me recently the law has changed to allow a property owner to shoot a dog for ANY reason if its on your property and it does not belong there.
He also related an incident to me in which another deputy shot an attacking Pittbull three times with a .40 caliber to no avail. It took a 12 gauge to end the mauling.
I love dogs and was sorry this had to end like this, but IMHO the owner is mostly to blame.
A few years back a neighbor’s escaped Pittbull killed our family cat. Thank goodness our kids were not outside at the time.
Our local police wouldn’t even ticket the owner since no actual law was broken. Had I shot that dog I would have been the one in trouble with the law. It left me feeling as if no justice at all had been served.
Maybe every community needs to think about this issue and create a Dog law specific to this situation.
I was only gonna comment on the LEO’s questionable sidearm handling, but after reading so many oblivious comments about how the animal was dangerous I couldn’t help myself.
I’ll start off by giving my dog credentials:
I have some difficult dogs and have grown up around tough animals. I have two dogs right now, both are mutts. One of them is a 45# wild dog of indeterminable breeding (he looks like he’s part lion, part alligator, and maybe part Dogo Argentino – he has a mane), and he was found out in the desert when he was about a year old, or so the vet determined. I spent around two years domesticating him. He’s now very friendly and what most people would consider the ideal family dog. You can poke, prod, and even sit on him to your content, he’s very submissive and won’t do a thing, licking you all the while. My other dog is a 80ish# German Shepard/Grey Hound mix who is very high energy and very dominate, both with capital very’s. I’ve raised him since it was okay to take him from his mother. He’s so dominate that when we take him back home to my in-laws ranch, where they have several dogs that deal with wild predators regularly, that by the time we leave all the other dogs are submissive to him – and the ranch dogs are a lot bigger than the little Beagle and don’t like a new dog encroaching on their turf and have the fighting experience to back it up. Guess which of my dogs is the more dangerous one? Yup, the 45# submissive dog, hands down. If you aren’t suppose to be in my house or in my back yard he’ll come for ya and he has the jaw strength to back up the bite – I’ve seen him bite fresh cow femurs in half (wild dogs develop differently than their domesticated counterparts – that and I think my dog was exposed to radiation that gave him super strength, because he can toss around my bigger dog like he’s nothing) and he hardly ever barks or growls. My bigger dog is only submissive to people, as he’s been taught that since he was a pup, but he’s never done grievous harm to anything. He’s the most obedient dog you ever did see, the combo making him a horrible guard dog – cause he’ll take commands from intruders too. He barks, growls, and makes noises frequently. Dogs noises don’t necessarily signify anything, my big dogs growls the most when he plays, On the other hand, their body language means everything. I grew up around wild animals, there were even packs of wild dogs that the farmers & ranchers had to hunt to protect their livestock. I’ve seen the damage dogs can do to both people and animals up close and personal.
That being said…
Those dogs didn’t attack the other dog. The business with the other dog was playful and possibly an act of dominance, but the camera didn’t stick around long enough, the Pit’s were not tense and they were pretty bouncy and even a bit prancie. The other dog didn’t like it one bit, but that’s not harm it’s just rude. Dogs are still animals and people try to put their values, morality, paradigm, or whatever you want to call it on them and it just doesn’t apply – they’re wired differently and can be trained to reign some of that in or react differently. They just don’t process or react the way humans do – no animal does (most human reactions to a dogs actions actually reinforce unwanted behaviors in them – think about that for a minute)…
The dog also did not attack the guy, it didn’t even lunge. It reacted to the guy poking at it with a rake, that is all. Dogs are one of the most aggressive species in the world and poking something at them doesn’t stop them from attacking, I’ve tried it numerous times in dangerous situations, that ended poorly. The dog was reacting from the rake-wielders body language and fear, but it still didn’t attack (and those are the opportunities aggressive dogs look for, it’s a sign of weakness and weakness in the animal world needs to be attacked in predators minds). It was just playing and came to the nearest person to play with them as well. It didn’t have any of the tell-tale tail signs of being dangerous or even rabid, they actually appeared to be emotionally healthy, but rude – most urban dogs are.
Now moving onto the LEO…
1) The LEO fired his sidearm one-handed and without firm footing – almost one footed as well (I know footing doesn’t necessarily factor, but he was already unstable while firing with one hand) at a moving target, close to the ground (below his knees even), and it looks to be within 5m. What happens when his sloppy fundamentals and violation of shooting at something when he doesn’t know whats in the grass causes a ricochet or worse? As a kid I caught a round in my hand from someone else’s negligence in a very similar situation. He even came on the scene with his firearm unholstered. Scary…
2) Since when is it the LEO’s responsibility to come out and shoot off-lease, and troublesome animals? Did the LEO suddenly become Judge Dredd and become the law to pass judgement to shoot at something when he clearly wasn’t in danger?! Where’s the justification? What happened to Animal Control? What damage had the animals done that justified summary execution? I thought we had courts for this kind of stuff! Now that that’s outta the way it’s possible the LEO’s, wherever this happened, have the authority to shoot animals without cause, and if the canine-death-by-cops statistics says anything I don’t think laws/protocols are mattering much anymore whether there’s a law or not.
This is all a case of ignorance of animals from urbanization and questionable choices by the LEO… Am I opposed to killing the dogs if they were needing to be killed? Nope, I’ve done it myself many times, but I seriously question the validity for the need for their being shot in this instance. And somebody please talk to that Officer about fundamentals and weapon safety.
I agree that the LEO needs some SERIOUS re-training. TWO HANDS – HEAD SHOT – and a bit better stance.
But beyond that I also agree the dog didn’t really attack any humans and I question if it was actually attacking the beagle. Looked like playing to me.
There’s not enough info there for me to really have an opinion as to whether or not that was legit, though I’m leaning towards it was. Regardless, the way it was handled was absolutely nuts. Just walk up and one handed no aim shoot the dog? The officer had been there what, 20 seconds? All I can say, there is a lot that I think I would have done differently.
It is very easy to watch this on replay and think that the officer could have shown more “restraint”. The LEO did not have that luxury. He responded to a call of aggressive dogs , and when one acted agressive towards him the LEO responded appropriately. With any potential attack you do not wait for the source to close to spitting distance to make a decision.
As far as I am concerned this is murder, and the cop should be tried for murder. If I shot a police dog I would be tried for murder. So what’s the difference?
How is that classified as “attacking us”??? Honestly, WTF were these so called “cops” thinking??? Do they know dog behaviour @ all??? Personally, this is why the ASPCA need’s a “hit squad” of their own….
Accidents happen to people all the time, hope he never see’s his a comin…..
The last point I want to make, hopefully is that Bully type dog owners face many similar discriminations as gun owners do for the same basic reasons: ignorance and fear. It’s too bad some on either side cannot see past the end of their own muzzles and recognize this, even when presented with a video portraying irresponsible use by both. Until that happens both sides will always face the same problems.
The cop is a freakin’ moron, who refusd to take the time to do his job properly. He should not have moved onto private property. The dog that confronted him was only protecting private property. If he had called animal control, they are properly trained to handle a situation like this without unnecessarily killing the dog.
As best I can tell, of the three dogs I saw in the video, only the smallest was associated with that property; Ergo the larger two dogs were trespassers. Also note the attempt(s) in video to capture one or both of the larger dogs with the noose-on-a-stick devices that are typically used by animal control?
I’m not saying the officer was right, and I certainly didn’t like hearing the cries of the wounded dog(s), but from watching the video in its entirety, the best guess I can come to is that the two larger dogs escaped onto another’s private property, and started harassing that property owner’s dog. I see at least one attempt on film to subdue one of the dogs, and it failed.
So, I ask this: What would YOU do to a dog that was in YOUR back yard attacking YOUR dog? Would you phone animal control and do NOTHING while you waited for them to show up and MAYBE save your dog?
I know what I would do, and sitting around isn’t it. Nor is subjecting myself to the whims of unknown dogs who are on my property, attacking my dog.
FLAME DELETED The dogs were out and acting aggressive, two dogs come on my property and attack my dog and act aggressive towards me Ill shoot it myself. What were you expecting the cop to do? Make a mean face and growl at the dog to scare it away? THEY WERE ON THIS MANS PROPERTY AND ATTACKING HIS OWN PET – FLAME DELETED
#1. Keep your pit bulls on your own land. The breed has a reputation for a reason. Yes, they can go from playful to violent quickly. No, the LEO does not know their entire history, so stop judging him as if he does. You all don’t know the dogs history either.
#2. Stop judging the police officer for shooting one – handed. He clearly hit his target without having much time to react.
#3. No, we don’t know the entire situation. LEOs are not dog – breeders, but if a trespassing pit bull comes after me, I’m probably going to shoot it as well if I am acting in a law enforcement capacity. Judge him on the call he received, that he was responding to aggressive dogs that were illegally on anther’s property, and would not leave.
#4. There isn’t much judgement leveled here on the owner of the trespassing dogs. That person has the largest amount of fault in this whole ordeal. There’s a lot of folks on this site who talk about how they would shoot an intruder. That’s what the LEO did.
#5. The LEO is hearing the beagle “scream.” That leaves an impression.
So grab a dose of reality if you think this cop needs to be fired. Either that, or post of video of how you did better in the same situation.
see, here’s the thing: if the way you stated it was “keep your dogs on your own land” or “keep your aggressive dogs on your own land”… okay, i would see the point. but if we can generalize that a pit bull is automatically dangerous, i think it’s fair to assume we can generalize about the cop in whatever negative way seems to match his behavior.
What a peice of crap? why would you even call the cops for dogs in your yard? what about calling animal control to have the dogs detained and fine the owners? Its almost as bad as the video of the cop in a rural drive way with a dog barking at him. he gets out, shoots the dog for defending his home, and then drives away. Thank god for surveillance cameras
While I don’t know the whole history of this dog, what a painful thing to watch. That cop is an unprofessional dumbass, swearing at the dog, not aiming properly, and not shooting for a clean quick kill, if it was required at all. Where was animal control with a pole with loop on it? That cop was a negligent, cruel person. I wish he could be held criminally accountable, just like a citizen would be who did the same thing. Maybe he thinks he is better than the rest of us?
What an incompetent jerk.
Cops are all incompetent jerks. If they get a call of aggressive dogs trespassing on private property, who are subsequently being aggressive towards the lawful property owners, they should in fact do absolutely nothing. Police Departments never get sued anyways, so that’s clearly the best course of action. (sarcasm off)
The owners of the property called the police, they did not call animal control.
Again, if you’re so much better, post a video of it. FLAME DELETED Many of you are the same people who condemned the slow response of police in the past, and clearly aren’t happy with any of their actions.
Do you want a pit bull that you’ve never seen before quickly advancing on you? And if you say yes, then you are more full of shit than a negligent dog owners back yard.
There are too many comments for me to go through more than cursorily, so I don’t know if I’m being repetitive, but if it was my backyard and my dog “screaming” like the beagle I’d have shot both the intruding dogs.
That being said it looked like there was plenty of time for the owner to have gotten his dog inside (which would be the second thing I’d do after grabbing a .40 or .45 once I saw a couple of B-A dogs (comparatively) running around loose).
Much as I hate dog-shooting LEOs of any stripe, I think I’m with the cop on this one. It sounded like the owner told the cop that the intruding dogs had attacked his beagle which, in my mind, provides justification for shooting the others regardless of whether they are coming at me. On the other hand I would have tried to put them down as quickly and painlessly as possible.
Hey you bet your ass Accur81 that many cops are incompetent with their sidearm. I am at the range every weekend, and could have dropped that dog humanely if needed. And I see some cops who are skilled with their sidearm, and some who shouldn’t be allowed to carry a sidearm. RESPONSE TO FLAME DELETED
Accur81, yes I do get off my couch and get to the range every weekend. And practice standard grip, strong hand only, and weak hand only, and compete in IDPA and USPSA. I would hate to shoot a dog, but if I had to I could have dropped that dog humanely, not winged it like an amatuer. At the range I see both cops who are skilled with their sidearm, and some who have chips on their shoulders but don’t have the prerequisite skill and sense to be allowed a firearm. And also in terms of “getting off the couch”, I can also do 150 crunches followed by 150 leg raises, and then absorb punches to the stomach as a contact martial artist. So, in answer to you question, yes, I get off the couch. And secondly, I did not attack you personally, yet you attacked me personally. Why is that?
Dave B., I didn’t mean it to be personal against you.
I find the LEO bashing on this site to be tiresome at times. Yes, this shooting wasn’t perfect. No, I don’t much respect the comments that have been posted regarding this LEO being an incompetent jerk, losing his job, etc. I haven’t heard a legitimate response from those commentors about how they could have done it better, given the situation this LEO faced during the short duration of the video, and the equipment he had with him. I would have done this same thing he did, except that I’m right handed. If its an unknown put bull coming at me, I’m going to put it down, not regale it with stories of my IDPA exploits. Ditto with a coyote. Your mileage may vary, but I’m carrying on from here.
What the hec!? What a pointless tragedy. The owner should have kept his dog in his own yard, yes. But that dog was not attacking a person; the situation didn’t call for shooting it.
This year I had an incident with a new neighbor’s Rotweiler charging me.
I was 100 feet inside my yard and had my back to him. He was in his yard and there is no fence between us. I heard footsteps turned around and saw this dog charging me. I pulled my gun and the dog stopped (maybe because I was facing him). Neighbor had clipped it’s tail so their is not way to tell tail wag. I did not know the dog. I did not fire, but kept my gun on the dog about 20 feet away. The whole thing was only over a couple of seconds. When the neighbors kids came to get their dog, I holstered my gun. The kids mother yelled at me for having pulled a gun and asked if I had a license. The answer is yes, but I don’t need one on my own property in Texas. In retrospect, I should have asked her if she heard of leash laws. She said that she would make sure the dog did not hurt my property, I pointed out I was protecting me and not my property.
They are putting up a fence now and a heck of a way to meet the new neighbors. If I had shot the dog, I would have been the bad guy?
Looks to me like those pitbulls (?) attacked the beagle, let alone charging people. Enough. The officer did the right thing.
If the pit bulls had attacked the beagle it would be dead. As for cop, he shot the dog because he felt like it and knew he would get away with it. A pit bull covers approximately 36 feet per second. With the officers’s half-assed demeanor an attacking pit bull would have hit him with enough force to at least stagger him, possibly knock him to the ground/and or disarm him.
Yeah, it’s unfortunate that it has to come to that sometimes, but people are stupid.
I’m referring, of course, to the owners of the dogs running loose. At least there’s video footage of the beagle and residents being threatened and the cop being charged to combat the inevitable “they’re so sweet, they wouldn’t hurt a fly” complaints.
Sometimes shooting the dog IS the right move. Nice shooting copper.
First off, as a dog owner it is your responsibility to secure your dogs. Unfortunately it appears as if this owner is having some issues in this department.
That being said these dogs showed zero signs of aggression toward any of the people or the chained beagle. (only ignorant hateful assholes chain there dogs & there are now laws against it here in TX) And anyone who thinks these dogs where being aggressive needs to have the “situational awareness” re-evaluated in a big way.
These p*&^y a&*^!! cops who shoot first when it comes to dogs are a damn joke, violent dogs need to be dealt with but not all dogs are violent and these 2 showed no signs of being so.
And Mr. Camera man if you so are so worried about your dogs safety why not put the camera down and go protect your dog, you sir are as much a joke as the trigger happy officer who pulled the trigger.
Zero signs of aggression? Did you watch the same video I did? The one where the black dog had clearly decided that the back yard was his property, and ran over to defend it from the humans when they started to walk in? The one where the black dog charged and snarled and snapped at the broom in the guy’s hand?
Snarling? What snarling? And as far as barking goes, if thats a sign of aggression then all dogs should be shot? The dog also didn’t charge when a dog charges its on “body lowered, stance widened, tail down” thats a dog charge this dog was merely coming over to see what was up. Curiosity is not violence.
That sound the dog was making as he snapped at the rake/broom? That’s what is known as snarling. He barked at the guy, then at 1:25, growled, snapped, snarled at, and then retreated from the broom, twice, and then backed away and resumed barking. Curiosity is not violence. Growling, snarling, and snapping is violence, and when it’s in my yard, is unacceptable.
Ok, Re-watched the video, the dog did snarl but the dog did not charge “my dogs actually make the same noises when I am sweeping, raking etc” I guess what I am trying to convey here is when dogs go bad they tend to go real bad, the dog didn’t grab the rake the dog didn’t truly charge any one, the beagle wasn’t attacked at all from what I can tell, and this debacle just reeked of these “concerned” neighbors trying to get these dogs killed, and thats not right. The owner should of been cited for not properly containing the animals & animal control should of been called, If the dogs where confiscated and then deemed too aggressive to go on to new homes then so be it. But as someone who has spent there entire life around dogs “mainly terriers & few pit bulls”, these 2 weren’t bad news given with everything I saw on the video I would of gone sat down in that yard and scratched there ears. The neighbors for one reason or another feared and didn’t trust these dogs the dogs then of course keyed into this and became wary themselves. The big thing here is that there are far to many LEO’s who are far to trigger happy with dogs “especially pit bulls”.
If you want some insight into genuine pit bull behavior talk to your parents & grandparents, they for decades where considered to be the nanny dog that was left with small children to protect and play with them. Unfortunately the ghetto fabulous homeboys, dog fighting and bad ownership & upbringing have given the breed a very bad wrap, not to mention some highly publicized accounts of pack mentality and a bad group of dogs. Kinda like the same stories the brady camp likes to throw around when an unfit gun owner does something stupid.
FLAME DELETED Animals are not people. I suppose I have a duty to ask a home invader if the gun they’re threatening me with is actually real before I defend myself from the threat?
Can’t stand PETA so no thanks. I am in no way saying that you should not protect yourself if u feel your life or well being or the same of any loved ones is in danger.FLAME DELETED
FLAME DELETED – IF A BIG ANGRY THING WITH BIG TEETH MAKE LIKE HURT YOU, YOU HURT IT SO IT NOT HURT YOU. RABIES CAN KILL YOU QUICKLY.
Who said anything about the dogs being rabid? Let me guess same dude who told you Obama is coming for your guns huh?
Oh sure lemme call and see if there’s any openings at vet school so I know I’m doing the right thing stopping this charging animal.
PETA? Really? FLAME DELETED
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/
Sarcasm, I was lard wrestling with penn and teller when you were in diapers.
Jake, Thank you for elucidating the problem here. I hope RF does not delete your posts. If your reference to me being in diapers is meant to convey that you are older than me, I doubt it. But even so, doing something longer does not make it right. Many so called “experts” have been doing it wrong for a lifetime and bragging about it. As the saying goes, there’s no foo like an old fool.
FLAME DELETED Not once did I say PETA does not kill animals, only that the type of people that value animals more than people generally move towards them. As little sense as that makes.
Okay so someone is only qualified to defend themselves from an attacking animal once they have taken a class on recognizing the proper aggression signals of each different type of animal so you don’t commit what, negligent murder of an animal?
FLAME DELETED
FLAME DELETED. WARNING: PERSISTENT FLAMERS ARE BANNED FROM THIS SITE
Sorry but every reply I’ve gotten here has sounded like every “Oh don’t worry, he doesn’t bite, I don’t need to follow the rules because I’m a dog whisperer” I’ve gotten from irresponsible dog owners before getting attacked. Which has happened several times, EVERY time with no “provocation” and much of the time with me some distance from an animal that perked up and decided to charge and attack me. I have read hundreds of posts on here in the last few weeks, hundreds of pages of posts, and this is the LEAST logical sense I’ve seen from this ostensibly pro-freedom community. Have your freedom, as long as you don’t hurt the poor poochies trying to attack you while you attempt to stop them from maiming your properly leashed dog. I’ve read dozens of arguments around here that call for less aggression from a HUMAN before deadly retaliation becomes necessary.
So if the community is so respected by you and several people experienced with both dogs and this particular breed are trying to point out and demonstrate that these animals where not being aggressive and that they in no way posed an imminent threat to anyone you ignore it and adopt a “shoot first is the only answer” mentality. This in my opinion demonstrates an unwillingness to better your self, your situational awareness, and the financial & physical safety of you and your loved ones.
If you are dealing with a violent, snarling or rabid animal then yes shoot, shoot quickly, shoot well, and then feel free to be angered at the dogs owner that both you and the animal were put into that situation.
I have made none of the assertions you attribute to me, and any reply that does not pay fealty and beg your wisdom will elicit “BLACK HELICOPTER ALEX JONESER FREAK” so why bother?
You go ahead and stick your hand out to give skritchies to every pit you see behaving this way, I guarantee you will not get bit, some of the time.
The best part is if this were a gun post everyone would be quick to include the “don’t take my word for it, research it and talk in person to someone who knows what they are doing” in every discussion, but not about toothy carnivores! Let’s pontificate away!
Well when you tell a pro 2a TX gun owner to go back to PETA “the brady bunch of the pet world”. Its a little offensive, its basically like calling me a stupid granola crunch hippie. And anyone who calls a gun toting texan a hippie must be in an underground bunker in montana sitting on a case of 7.62 while reffering to there AK as “precious” when not adjusting there tinfoil hat. Just sayin…..
Oh god for the last time the PETA thing was a sarcastic joke, jeez. I was implying you value the dog more than the homeowner, which your comments kind of showed.
And as far as the rest of your post goes, if you have been the victim of what sounds like several dog attacks, you obviously suffer from some ongoing underlying anxiety when around them. Unfortunately the dogs sense this they go on edge as do you and the situation unfortunately escalates into a very bad situation. Dogs have INCREDIBLE situational awareness, unfortunately it is backed up by a rather instinctive & animalistic thought process. They go straight to the big two Fight or Flight, and with you obviously having some hesitation & leeriness which is interpreted as fear “which if your past encounters are true and correct you have no reason to be ashamed about” by the incredibly black & white decision process of a canine which then ticks the box for a predatorial response which means FIGHT and its on. You have 2 choices avoid all contact with dogs to the best of your ability or go out and get yourself a pup raise it right and learn to respect and understand them. My dogs are my families first line of defense and the only alarm system on my home, when out in public they are also a huge portion of my situational awareness and OODA loop. They will always pick up on stuff long before we will.
Oh man now we’re going full MikeB circle to victim blaming. I don’t give a hoot what dogs “pick up on” as in several of these instances I was not aware of the animal until it was very near. Cue blaming me for not being aware of absolutely everything around me (some earlier instances occurred when I was a child) in a city of 10 million. As far as making completely baseless psychological assertions, I like dogs and spend quite a bit of time around friendly, properly trained and properly RESTRAINED animals. I have personally hugged the biggest living cat on the planet with my own arms and count that among my more exhilarating animal experiences. My comments are all directed at the undeserved response to THIS cop and THESE homeowners. They should have used spray? How do you know they had it? They aren’t rabid? Not foaming does NOT mean not carrying! And the Beagle isn’t in pieces yet, and might never be, but lets just wait around while the poor small restrained beagle gives himself a heart attack over the possibility. Do I wait ’til the tweaker has my child’s throat in his hands or do I shoot as he lunges at my child?
I am not affronting YOUR dogs, as you seem to have interpreted my entire discussion here.
Never mind, *sigh* obviously there is no point attempting to have a logical or civil discussion with you. Good luck, carry on & stay calm. And keep comparing the commenters on here to mikeb that will do wonders for you.
You didn’t read past “mikeb” as that was the least civil term in the paragraph. Oh well, I guess some just love their dogs more than strange people, can’t blame them.
If you’d replied to a SINGLE thing I said then I could stop bringing The Unmentionable up as then you wouldn’t have been arguing like him so much.
“And anyone who thinks these dogs where being aggressive needs to have the “situational awareness” re-evaluated in a big way.”
Wow, just wow.
I’m with Jay on this one. I have no problem with having to shoot dogs in certain situations, but I don’t think this was one of them. However, this was an incident in which using a spray on the dogs would have been perfect. That dog would have hightailed it out of there. And if by some crazy chance it didn’t have the desired reaction, then shoot it.
As a dog owner I feel bad for the dog. however they were in someone else’s yard and already attacked the other dog. The dog advanced towards the officer. Those are the facts. Everything else is an assumption. Even the dog whisperer has been bit a few times.
The officer can’t wait until the dog bites him before to defending himself. That would be like saying you can’t defend yourself until you’ve been hit, stabbed or shot. He felt threatened and made a judgement. I highly doubt he wanted to or enjoyed shooting the dog.
Unfortunately we can probably assume the officer felt threatened as he was shooting on handed in a weaver stance.
Please leave Texas ASAP.
It will help the overall IQ
FLAME DELETED Watch the 1:25 mark when the resident is fending off the charging dog with a rake.
Fending off!!!!!! Fending off a dog that is just fucking standing there? Wow u must be one high speed low drag stone cold killer huh? Yes unequivocally that persons life was in danger!
Wow running directly towards the sole open entrance to one’s home is now defined as “standing still”
with allies like this I’d hate to see the grabbers react.
Yo pot I would like to introduce you to this kettle here.
Agreed, Ted Swinson.
Without any context, I don’t know what is going on. From what I can piece together, the cameraman’s beagle was being harassed by the two other dogs. The thing I don’t understand is, were these animals strays that wandered on his property? Was this a neighbor’s dog that had broken off its chain? As for the cop, it seems he provided an impromptu euthanasia service for the dog. He felt threatened when the dog ran towards him so he shot. An unfortunate series of events for sure.
First of all, why the fuck can’t people hold a camera steady? What is so difficult? No wonder most people can’t shoot for shit.
Okay, enough with that.
As a dog lover, I hate this. A couple of abused and neglected pit bulls owned by some low-life puke, probably for one reason only. It’s an untenable situation … unless we can agree on euthanizing the owner. I’d like to see that video.
+1
I feel like there could ve been a better solution….
Yeah if animal control had more people and could have gotten there instead of one cop being spared. Maybe if the owner wasn’t such a jerk, maybe if the dogs hadn’t arbitrarily decided that yard was now theirs and that smaller animal was now an object for their amusement. Maybe the cop and the homeowner are quite the LAST people to blame here. They reacted to the situation they were presented, they have NO responsibility for the situation having gotten to the point it did when the video started rolling.
I apparently live in a different universe than some of you. If I exit my house and there is a dog snarling, off leash, intimidating me on my property, that dog is dead if his owner does not immediately appear and gain control of the hound. We had a case of that on my street four years ago. Rottweilers raised by a well known rock singer who now fashions herself the ‘godmother of soul’ escaped her property’s 7 foot high gates, chasing my neighbor and her chocolate lab (on leash) onto a nearby UPS truck. That never happened again. I would also suggest the LEO shoot with two hands. The dog will go down faster, most likely. I love dogs under the control of their owners. Aggressive dogs off leash? They’re no different than muggers. I don’t pay taxes to suffer that sort of BS.
+1
Is this her security? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfbQdxi43J4
Seven houses down the hill, turn right, second house.
On a slightly different note, the cop takes two shots and wounds one dog. A third to put it out of its misery would have been a good idea. But it just goes to show you the limitations of a handgun. Granted, the cop didn’t seem too concerned about shot placement, but if the dog had been more motivated, or the second dog came in to attack, this encounter might have been a lot messier. I’d treat threatening dogs like armed human attackers — keep shooting until the threat is stopped.
Jay, most people, even vociferous dog owners, just do not understand dogs. Most are afraid of them and don’t realize what the media has done to certain breeds, just as they regularly do to gun owners, high cap mags, black rifles etc. They will cry foul at being portrayed unrealistically, but fail to recognize when it is done to anyone else.
Obviously this situation was the dog owner’s fault, and it’s no one else’s job to coddle his beasts, but it just makes me hate cops all the more. Pepper spray would have repelled the dogs and given them a healthy respect for the uniformed killers.
As CCW holders we are always taught to use just the force necessary to repel the threat against another human. Pepper spray, taser, whatever, escalating until lethal force is needed. Since the same justification is not needed with animals many people just think every loose dog that barks at them should be shot – mostly because they can get away with it. They are just cowards, plain and simple.
I live in a rural area and the neighbors donkey got out two days ago. It was running down the street and went onto another property. I chased him down and (no bridle) took him under the neck, leading him back home. When he did not want to go in I blocked him and pushed his ass (pun) to get him in. He might have bit me, kicked me or trampled me… maybe. Being as I was armed I should probably have tested out my carry ammo and shot him since I could get away with it right?
TROLLING DELETED The more people I meet the more I love my dogs.
Did the donkey charge at you, rear and stomp the ground with all its heavier than thou weight mere inches from you? Closest I can come to a growling, jaw snapping, possibly diseased menace coming at me in my own backyard with an ungulate as the example.
Jake I guess you missed this:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/11/robert-farago/self-defense-tip-shot-placement/
More trigger happy cowards.
I was one of the first to have a great guffaw at this obliviously handled incident. One guy with a police rem700 would have done nicely and kept everyone safe from the trampling that might have happened if the officers had somehow been even MORE careless. I’ve seen MikeB bring up more relevant stuff in his “supporting arguments” that are usually irrelevant to the argument.
troll alert
Agreed, and donkey’s can be f%*&ng honery and mean. My in laws had one named Andy he was a royal prick, until he went to auction that is.
What u said is true entirely to many people who carry “professionals included” are just looking for an excuse to pull the trigger. That ladies and gentleman is not our responsibility if it comes down to that so be it. But our primary responsibility is to avoid that at all costs.
+1
He could’ve pepper sprayed them first, then shot them if that didn’t work.
To be honest a round in the dirt would of probably sent them running for the hills, most dogs unless trained to hunt or be involved with combat are terrified of loud noises like gun shots. Hell a loud booming NO would of most likely caused these two to check up.
No worries about safety with a round in the ground? You don’t give “warning shots” since you are accountable for every bullet leaving your gun – I presume the LEO is under similar constraints.
Watching this made my stomach turn. As a dog owner, and lover – I hated this. I would have preferred OC to a gun. But it is the owners of the dogs who are ultimately responsible.
Some good points. Similar justifications for the use of deadly force must be applied to non-human animals as well. It’s hard to be objective without seeing more than the shaky camera shows, but it seems that there was little imminent threat to the beagle (looked more like harassment then predatory aggression) and no imminent threat to the humans. Yes, there was territorial aggression, which is why you don’t walk into the middle of the situation or poke a stick at the dog, which will make any excited animal snarl and snap.
Better trained officers and animal control staff could probably have diffused the situation.
And yeah, pepper spray is a damn no-brainer. I’ve worked in with pit bulls in inner city shelters and find it really hard to believe that it wouldn’t have been a deterrent.
Good points but don’t worry Jake will be along to call you a moron any sec now.
The more people I meet the more I love my dogs.
I feel the same way about my cats. And dogs. And turtles.
Keep in mind when police go out to a call they are already just trying to make the best of a less than crappy situation. When it comes to dogs that size it sucks but you just cant take the chance that it grabs you. I personally know a female officer that had a pit bull charge her, didn’t take a shot, and now she only has one arm. After it grabbed her it was shot three times by another officer that showed up shortly after before it let go. Thankfully she was able to stay with the department doing a desk job, but her life was changed forever.
Moral of the story… People need to be responsible for their pets (and their actions, etc.) because no human should risk permanent injury over someone else’ incompetence or behavior. At least that’s the way I see it.
All handguns (pit bulls) are evil. Most shootings, robberies, suicides etc are committed by handguns, not their owners. All handguns should be destroyed on sight, without question. It should be done by uniformed cops. Substitute video of Jared Loughner. More cops are killed by handguns than pit bulls. Not so nice when it’s applied to eh Mr Bond? (Not talking to you RF)
Pit bulls, rottweilers, and some other large dogs are not like handguns. They actually attack all by themselves without (usually) any human pulling their trigger. Imagine if a little kid had wandered by the yard. We have strict laws about dogs-on-leash where I live. Two miles away, in the city, aggressive dogs are routinely used to intimidate people. The owners don’t realize it is simply a classic tort-law assault. Scare me with your dog? Knowingly let your dog intimidate me? It’s going to cost you. A lot. You’ll be in civil court.
Yeah, I’m just gonna leave this here for you:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/pit-bulls-surprising-past-nanny-dogs-195612543.html
Regurgitating ignorance ad infinitum does not make it true.
Ropingdown, you go from dogs attacking on their own to wanting to take me to court for intimidating you with my dog. Which is it? Dogs that are bred, raised and owned are the responsibility of the owners. And just like guns, they are often tools that can be misused.
If a little kid wandered into the yard unleashed and out of the control of his parents he should be shot right? Wasn’t there just a shooting by a third grader with a handgun in his back pack? That kid was a demonstrably greater hazard to humans than any of those dogs. That is your logic. Oh wait, we can’t do that to people. Any cop that showed up and shot that kid would be branded a coward.
There are obviously anti doggers just as there are anti gunners. You can’t even see that you are using the same arguments.
Animals are not people, and there is no constitutionally protected right to have a dog. Equating defending yourself from an attacking animal in your doorway with child murder is….. whatever term for “sick” is acceptable to the mods.
The dog did not bite anyone. The kid shot another kid. Anti gunners often call it “sick” when you use their own logic to show them how ridiculous it is.
I guess I’m done posting here if my suggestion to “do some reading” is deleted as flaming while I’m entitled to get called “sick” for responding in a civil, readable manner.
“If a little kid wandered into the yard unleashed and out of the control of his parents he should be shot right?” I assume was a sarcastic jab implying the comment it was in reply to would ostensibly support child murder. Equating killing an attacking animal with murdering a child is… poor reasoning then? Whatever term you want to use killing a dog that could hurt or kill you is not the same as walking up to a human kid and killing it.
Not worth it anymore. Shoot away. You’re not right, but it’s your right.
Which is it? Both. Let an aggressive dog of any breed roam my yard and try to chase me back in my own house? Walk an aggressive dog that growls at me and forces me off the sidewalk? Both are inexcusable. Both are common in parts of the city. You have no more right to let your dog assault me (tort: put me in immediate fear of harmful bodily contact) than you yourself to assault me. I’ve raised labs to fetch ducks for twenty-one years. I’ve never been harassed by a dog in the field. But for some inexplicable reason, there are people in the suburbs and city who think they have a right to maintain an aggressive dog and let it growl and approach passers-by. Your mixing up kids-with-guns and the dog post makes no sense. It is unfortunate, but there are many people who pretend to respect their neighbors, but who get obvious joy from seeing their dominate little hound bully people and other dogs. I have no sympathy for such people. I love dogs bred and trained to respect people and serve a working function. If you have a guard dog or fighting dog, keep it fenced and locked or on a very strong and short leash. It’s no my idea, it’s the law’s idea.
“It’s no (sic) my idea, it’s the law’s idea.”
Now there’s a good argument! Hopefully “the law” won’t decide you no longer have the right to defend yourself. Jake asked what would happen if a little kid wandered into the yard. Not me. I just turned the argument back on him. Which animal PROVED a greater threat to others? The dog that barked or the kid who shot another kid? I’m not saying the kid should be shot. I’m saying it would be just as cowardly and trigger happy as shooting that dog was.
When they come to take your guns, people, they will be using the same arguments you are using here to justify killing that animal, and banning/sterilizing breeds that are SCARY. If you can’t see that I give up. You can’t only use a line of reasoning when it suits your end.
And that’s why my dogs and I are out in the country behind a high fence marked “No Trespassing”.
Just the same the owners of those dogs should be on the “irresponsible dog owner of the day” page .
Looks like you misspelled “ignoring” as “turned around”. Nobody said anything about banning or sterilizing breeds, one of the nicest dogs I ever met was also the meanest pitbull I ever saw. This, AGAIN, is about THESE dogs, and THESE homeowners. Two unleashed dogs of unknown or no ownership, unleashed, unrestrained, also UNLEASHED, making attempts to attack homeowners on their own property. What, they should have locked the doors and whatever might have happened to their own pooch, well tough as long as we protect the sweet innocent intruders? You have not addressed a single point brought up because you know you’re essentially making the “you don’t need to shoot anyone/thing to defend yourself” grabber argument without realizing it. People play armchair criminologists and pick apart the decisions of DGUers all day every day, and we justly vilify them for it, you’re just playing the same game with a different ball.
I won’t argue with the decision to shoot the dog, but I despise the cop’s inhumane sloppy shooting. There was zero reason not to aim carefully and make a one-shot kill.
Seriously. The dude was a little too nonchalant about the process.
Self defense isn’t just for the 2-legged variety of attacker.
Re: Jay’s posts on this topic
I had not thought it possible, but I have found someone on this site with even less useful, coherent information than Mikeybunchanumbers.
Interesting post.
Where I work a deputy who is a patient of mine told me recently the law has changed to allow a property owner to shoot a dog for ANY reason if its on your property and it does not belong there.
He also related an incident to me in which another deputy shot an attacking Pittbull three times with a .40 caliber to no avail. It took a 12 gauge to end the mauling.
I love dogs and was sorry this had to end like this, but IMHO the owner is mostly to blame.
A few years back a neighbor’s escaped Pittbull killed our family cat. Thank goodness our kids were not outside at the time.
Our local police wouldn’t even ticket the owner since no actual law was broken. Had I shot that dog I would have been the one in trouble with the law. It left me feeling as if no justice at all had been served.
Maybe every community needs to think about this issue and create a Dog law specific to this situation.
Just my two cents. Have a great day, all!
NICE!!!
I was only gonna comment on the LEO’s questionable sidearm handling, but after reading so many oblivious comments about how the animal was dangerous I couldn’t help myself.
I’ll start off by giving my dog credentials:
I have some difficult dogs and have grown up around tough animals. I have two dogs right now, both are mutts. One of them is a 45# wild dog of indeterminable breeding (he looks like he’s part lion, part alligator, and maybe part Dogo Argentino – he has a mane), and he was found out in the desert when he was about a year old, or so the vet determined. I spent around two years domesticating him. He’s now very friendly and what most people would consider the ideal family dog. You can poke, prod, and even sit on him to your content, he’s very submissive and won’t do a thing, licking you all the while. My other dog is a 80ish# German Shepard/Grey Hound mix who is very high energy and very dominate, both with capital very’s. I’ve raised him since it was okay to take him from his mother. He’s so dominate that when we take him back home to my in-laws ranch, where they have several dogs that deal with wild predators regularly, that by the time we leave all the other dogs are submissive to him – and the ranch dogs are a lot bigger than the little Beagle and don’t like a new dog encroaching on their turf and have the fighting experience to back it up. Guess which of my dogs is the more dangerous one? Yup, the 45# submissive dog, hands down. If you aren’t suppose to be in my house or in my back yard he’ll come for ya and he has the jaw strength to back up the bite – I’ve seen him bite fresh cow femurs in half (wild dogs develop differently than their domesticated counterparts – that and I think my dog was exposed to radiation that gave him super strength, because he can toss around my bigger dog like he’s nothing) and he hardly ever barks or growls. My bigger dog is only submissive to people, as he’s been taught that since he was a pup, but he’s never done grievous harm to anything. He’s the most obedient dog you ever did see, the combo making him a horrible guard dog – cause he’ll take commands from intruders too. He barks, growls, and makes noises frequently. Dogs noises don’t necessarily signify anything, my big dogs growls the most when he plays, On the other hand, their body language means everything. I grew up around wild animals, there were even packs of wild dogs that the farmers & ranchers had to hunt to protect their livestock. I’ve seen the damage dogs can do to both people and animals up close and personal.
That being said…
Those dogs didn’t attack the other dog. The business with the other dog was playful and possibly an act of dominance, but the camera didn’t stick around long enough, the Pit’s were not tense and they were pretty bouncy and even a bit prancie. The other dog didn’t like it one bit, but that’s not harm it’s just rude. Dogs are still animals and people try to put their values, morality, paradigm, or whatever you want to call it on them and it just doesn’t apply – they’re wired differently and can be trained to reign some of that in or react differently. They just don’t process or react the way humans do – no animal does (most human reactions to a dogs actions actually reinforce unwanted behaviors in them – think about that for a minute)…
The dog also did not attack the guy, it didn’t even lunge. It reacted to the guy poking at it with a rake, that is all. Dogs are one of the most aggressive species in the world and poking something at them doesn’t stop them from attacking, I’ve tried it numerous times in dangerous situations, that ended poorly. The dog was reacting from the rake-wielders body language and fear, but it still didn’t attack (and those are the opportunities aggressive dogs look for, it’s a sign of weakness and weakness in the animal world needs to be attacked in predators minds). It was just playing and came to the nearest person to play with them as well. It didn’t have any of the tell-tale tail signs of being dangerous or even rabid, they actually appeared to be emotionally healthy, but rude – most urban dogs are.
Now moving onto the LEO…
1) The LEO fired his sidearm one-handed and without firm footing – almost one footed as well (I know footing doesn’t necessarily factor, but he was already unstable while firing with one hand) at a moving target, close to the ground (below his knees even), and it looks to be within 5m. What happens when his sloppy fundamentals and violation of shooting at something when he doesn’t know whats in the grass causes a ricochet or worse? As a kid I caught a round in my hand from someone else’s negligence in a very similar situation. He even came on the scene with his firearm unholstered. Scary…
2) Since when is it the LEO’s responsibility to come out and shoot off-lease, and troublesome animals? Did the LEO suddenly become Judge Dredd and become the law to pass judgement to shoot at something when he clearly wasn’t in danger?! Where’s the justification? What happened to Animal Control? What damage had the animals done that justified summary execution? I thought we had courts for this kind of stuff! Now that that’s outta the way it’s possible the LEO’s, wherever this happened, have the authority to shoot animals without cause, and if the canine-death-by-cops statistics says anything I don’t think laws/protocols are mattering much anymore whether there’s a law or not.
This is all a case of ignorance of animals from urbanization and questionable choices by the LEO… Am I opposed to killing the dogs if they were needing to be killed? Nope, I’ve done it myself many times, but I seriously question the validity for the need for their being shot in this instance. And somebody please talk to that Officer about fundamentals and weapon safety.
Yeah, what he said–and this from a person whose son was badly mauled (lifetime facial scarring) 2.5 years ago.
Beagles are baying whiners.
best post of the day IMO savaze.
I agree that the LEO needs some SERIOUS re-training. TWO HANDS – HEAD SHOT – and a bit better stance.
But beyond that I also agree the dog didn’t really attack any humans and I question if it was actually attacking the beagle. Looked like playing to me.
There’s not enough info there for me to really have an opinion as to whether or not that was legit, though I’m leaning towards it was. Regardless, the way it was handled was absolutely nuts. Just walk up and one handed no aim shoot the dog? The officer had been there what, 20 seconds? All I can say, there is a lot that I think I would have done differently.
It is very easy to watch this on replay and think that the officer could have shown more “restraint”. The LEO did not have that luxury. He responded to a call of aggressive dogs , and when one acted agressive towards him the LEO responded appropriately. With any potential attack you do not wait for the source to close to spitting distance to make a decision.
Pepper spray? FLAME DELETED
There was no attack… This is a case of ignorance and wanton violence. There’s plenty of other ways to deal with a troublesome dog.
As far as I am concerned this is murder, and the cop should be tried for murder. If I shot a police dog I would be tried for murder. So what’s the difference?
The difference is that cops somehow have more rights than us normal folks.
haha so true.
How is that classified as “attacking us”??? Honestly, WTF were these so called “cops” thinking??? Do they know dog behaviour @ all??? Personally, this is why the ASPCA need’s a “hit squad” of their own….
Accidents happen to people all the time, hope he never see’s his a comin…..
man thats horrible to see and hear. Geez cops are pansies. Just shoot first and no attempt at anything else.
The last point I want to make, hopefully is that Bully type dog owners face many similar discriminations as gun owners do for the same basic reasons: ignorance and fear. It’s too bad some on either side cannot see past the end of their own muzzles and recognize this, even when presented with a video portraying irresponsible use by both. Until that happens both sides will always face the same problems.
The cop is a freakin’ moron, who refusd to take the time to do his job properly. He should not have moved onto private property. The dog that confronted him was only protecting private property. If he had called animal control, they are properly trained to handle a situation like this without unnecessarily killing the dog.
Fire the cop for dereliction of duty.
As best I can tell, of the three dogs I saw in the video, only the smallest was associated with that property; Ergo the larger two dogs were trespassers. Also note the attempt(s) in video to capture one or both of the larger dogs with the noose-on-a-stick devices that are typically used by animal control?
I’m not saying the officer was right, and I certainly didn’t like hearing the cries of the wounded dog(s), but from watching the video in its entirety, the best guess I can come to is that the two larger dogs escaped onto another’s private property, and started harassing that property owner’s dog. I see at least one attempt on film to subdue one of the dogs, and it failed.
So, I ask this: What would YOU do to a dog that was in YOUR back yard attacking YOUR dog? Would you phone animal control and do NOTHING while you waited for them to show up and MAYBE save your dog?
I know what I would do, and sitting around isn’t it. Nor is subjecting myself to the whims of unknown dogs who are on my property, attacking my dog.
FLAME DELETED The dogs were out and acting aggressive, two dogs come on my property and attack my dog and act aggressive towards me Ill shoot it myself. What were you expecting the cop to do? Make a mean face and growl at the dog to scare it away? THEY WERE ON THIS MANS PROPERTY AND ATTACKING HIS OWN PET – FLAME DELETED
#1. Keep your pit bulls on your own land. The breed has a reputation for a reason. Yes, they can go from playful to violent quickly. No, the LEO does not know their entire history, so stop judging him as if he does. You all don’t know the dogs history either.
#2. Stop judging the police officer for shooting one – handed. He clearly hit his target without having much time to react.
#3. No, we don’t know the entire situation. LEOs are not dog – breeders, but if a trespassing pit bull comes after me, I’m probably going to shoot it as well if I am acting in a law enforcement capacity. Judge him on the call he received, that he was responding to aggressive dogs that were illegally on anther’s property, and would not leave.
#4. There isn’t much judgement leveled here on the owner of the trespassing dogs. That person has the largest amount of fault in this whole ordeal. There’s a lot of folks on this site who talk about how they would shoot an intruder. That’s what the LEO did.
#5. The LEO is hearing the beagle “scream.” That leaves an impression.
So grab a dose of reality if you think this cop needs to be fired. Either that, or post of video of how you did better in the same situation.
see, here’s the thing: if the way you stated it was “keep your dogs on your own land” or “keep your aggressive dogs on your own land”… okay, i would see the point. but if we can generalize that a pit bull is automatically dangerous, i think it’s fair to assume we can generalize about the cop in whatever negative way seems to match his behavior.
What a peice of crap? why would you even call the cops for dogs in your yard? what about calling animal control to have the dogs detained and fine the owners? Its almost as bad as the video of the cop in a rural drive way with a dog barking at him. he gets out, shoots the dog for defending his home, and then drives away. Thank god for surveillance cameras
While I don’t know the whole history of this dog, what a painful thing to watch. That cop is an unprofessional dumbass, swearing at the dog, not aiming properly, and not shooting for a clean quick kill, if it was required at all. Where was animal control with a pole with loop on it? That cop was a negligent, cruel person. I wish he could be held criminally accountable, just like a citizen would be who did the same thing. Maybe he thinks he is better than the rest of us?
What an incompetent jerk.
Cops are all incompetent jerks. If they get a call of aggressive dogs trespassing on private property, who are subsequently being aggressive towards the lawful property owners, they should in fact do absolutely nothing. Police Departments never get sued anyways, so that’s clearly the best course of action. (sarcasm off)
The owners of the property called the police, they did not call animal control.
Again, if you’re so much better, post a video of it. FLAME DELETED Many of you are the same people who condemned the slow response of police in the past, and clearly aren’t happy with any of their actions.
Do you want a pit bull that you’ve never seen before quickly advancing on you? And if you say yes, then you are more full of shit than a negligent dog owners back yard.
There are too many comments for me to go through more than cursorily, so I don’t know if I’m being repetitive, but if it was my backyard and my dog “screaming” like the beagle I’d have shot both the intruding dogs.
That being said it looked like there was plenty of time for the owner to have gotten his dog inside (which would be the second thing I’d do after grabbing a .40 or .45 once I saw a couple of B-A dogs (comparatively) running around loose).
Much as I hate dog-shooting LEOs of any stripe, I think I’m with the cop on this one. It sounded like the owner told the cop that the intruding dogs had attacked his beagle which, in my mind, provides justification for shooting the others regardless of whether they are coming at me. On the other hand I would have tried to put them down as quickly and painlessly as possible.
Hey you bet your ass Accur81 that many cops are incompetent with their sidearm. I am at the range every weekend, and could have dropped that dog humanely if needed. And I see some cops who are skilled with their sidearm, and some who shouldn’t be allowed to carry a sidearm. RESPONSE TO FLAME DELETED
That’s what I would have done.
Accur81, yes I do get off my couch and get to the range every weekend. And practice standard grip, strong hand only, and weak hand only, and compete in IDPA and USPSA. I would hate to shoot a dog, but if I had to I could have dropped that dog humanely, not winged it like an amatuer. At the range I see both cops who are skilled with their sidearm, and some who have chips on their shoulders but don’t have the prerequisite skill and sense to be allowed a firearm. And also in terms of “getting off the couch”, I can also do 150 crunches followed by 150 leg raises, and then absorb punches to the stomach as a contact martial artist. So, in answer to you question, yes, I get off the couch. And secondly, I did not attack you personally, yet you attacked me personally. Why is that?
Dave B., I didn’t mean it to be personal against you.
I find the LEO bashing on this site to be tiresome at times. Yes, this shooting wasn’t perfect. No, I don’t much respect the comments that have been posted regarding this LEO being an incompetent jerk, losing his job, etc. I haven’t heard a legitimate response from those commentors about how they could have done it better, given the situation this LEO faced during the short duration of the video, and the equipment he had with him. I would have done this same thing he did, except that I’m right handed. If its an unknown put bull coming at me, I’m going to put it down, not regale it with stories of my IDPA exploits. Ditto with a coyote. Your mileage may vary, but I’m carrying on from here.
dammit, how hard is it to have a a freaking catch pole? idiot cops
Did you not see the catch pole in the beginning of the video?
What the hec!? What a pointless tragedy. The owner should have kept his dog in his own yard, yes. But that dog was not attacking a person; the situation didn’t call for shooting it.
This year I had an incident with a new neighbor’s Rotweiler charging me.
I was 100 feet inside my yard and had my back to him. He was in his yard and there is no fence between us. I heard footsteps turned around and saw this dog charging me. I pulled my gun and the dog stopped (maybe because I was facing him). Neighbor had clipped it’s tail so their is not way to tell tail wag. I did not know the dog. I did not fire, but kept my gun on the dog about 20 feet away. The whole thing was only over a couple of seconds. When the neighbors kids came to get their dog, I holstered my gun. The kids mother yelled at me for having pulled a gun and asked if I had a license. The answer is yes, but I don’t need one on my own property in Texas. In retrospect, I should have asked her if she heard of leash laws. She said that she would make sure the dog did not hurt my property, I pointed out I was protecting me and not my property.
They are putting up a fence now and a heck of a way to meet the new neighbors. If I had shot the dog, I would have been the bad guy?