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Rep. Brad Wenstrup (R-Ohio) gave us a hint when he said, “We had a public school in my district that was forced by the left and the courts to take down ‘thou shalt not kill’ from in front of the schools.”

By his implication, without explicit reminders of Judeo-Christian rules of moral conduct, children fail to learn that things like murder, stealing and lying are wrong. But it’s not a question of knowing the rules. Studies show even psychopaths know right from wrong. It’s a matter of following those rules. Perhaps that’s where religion helps: Believing you’ll be punished (or rewarded) in the next life changes your behavior here and now.

That can’t be it, either. If the specter of hell dissuaded believers from doing wrong, surely Catholic priests would not have committed — nor would their superiors have countenanced — child sexual abuse. Neither would leaders in the Southern Baptist Convention have ignored or covered up reports of sexual abuse in its ranks.

If the fear of hell prevented believers from committing mass shootings, even, then the eight victims of evangelical Christian Robert Aaron Long would still be alive.

— Kate Cohen in A question for those who say more faith will prevent gun violence: How?

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99 COMMENTS

      • Walter, I try but am not nor claim to be perfect. I wonder why you ask. My comment was a mere reflection of observations of our present day society. I ain’t preaching if that’s the impression I left.

        • Question is relevant when you criticize people of faith. No Christian I know claims to be perfect. The only perfect one died some 2160 some odd years ago.
          Your reflections not withstanding, you were trying to preach.

        • so what’s wrong with a little preaching as long as it is TRUTH being preached. “Thou shalt not kill” IS truth, and NEEDS to be preached far more than it has been. AND then taught, particularly to younger ones growing up.

        • Scripture according to kate cohen et al…”Thou shalt Arm me with books not bullets” “The AR-15 is an Assault on common sense.” “Get you 5 pack Anderson lower receivers at AmmoLand.com today”…I said that:)

        • Exactly. God often uses an imperfect vessel to further perfect His vision. God loves a sinner – there is no more enthusiasm than the vigor that comes with reform or being born again.

        • Right on. Christians will be the first to tell you that they are not perfect, that they fall short of this. As far as the judgement of hell not being a deterrent, well it is. Can you imagine being in eternal misery and torment with terrorists and politicians to keep you company.

      • “christianity” is what it is regrdless of who or how many follow it how well. There only ever was ONE who was perfect, and they nailed Him up. Guess He stepped on too many toes. Made the Grands Poohbahs look bad. (accuratly enough, as they WERE, very bad.

        • anonymous, Trump is just fine. For your edification, most of us a “flawed” one way or another. Mean? You mean when he is attacked, he doesn’t just sit there and take it?
          Trump in spite of what some people “think” was a pretty good President. At least he too care of the country. If you want a namby-pamby, you don’t want Trump.
          Frankly, he’s not perfect be he’s a damn sight better than most else out there. For your edification, “Perfect is the enemy of good”.

    • Talk is cheap, many who claim faith don’t live it.
      Actions speak and reveal the true character within.

      Doesn’t matter. It’s still cultural. Most non-religious are still living off the morals of their parents who taught them how to behave and those morals stemmed from Christianity. In other words, they claim to be atheists, then follow all the tenets of Christianity.

  1. Fear of eternal damnation as a deterrent is about as effective as fear of imprisonment. Which is to say not very. Besides, if you believe eternal damnation is an option you also believe in gods forgiveness. Something I saw a lot on Sundays when I used to attend decades ago was the same people trying to sell drugs to us kids all week were in there with their families singing, praying and asking forgiveness.

    The pedos flock to the priesthood, teaching positions, counseling positions, etc… for essentially the same reason homicidal nuts go to schools, malls, bars, etc… Victim rich environments with virtually no defensive measures in place.

    We keep and bear because the only practical deterrent is immediate force. Failing that, a gradual falling to room temperature will prevent any recidivism.

    • Cearealkillin, it seemed to work pretty good when the Bible was taught in public schools. Much lower crime rate, lower pregnancy rate by unwed teens, higher grade point avg., etc. Since the Bible and prayer were forcibly removed from public life everything bad has gone up and everything good has gone down. I recommend “I America’s Godly Heritage” video by David Barton which is now free on YouTube. Goes into detail on the Christian Heritage of our country and we’re removing that Christian Heritage from public life has caused the issues we face now.

    • the main reason the “deterrent factor” comparison between prison and eternal punishment is that in our day, the “justice” system is so corrupt and rigged, most realise their odds of getting CAUGHT are low, PROSECUTED lower yet (plea bargains, deferrals, join the squealers, etc) and, with todya;s crooked corrupt juries and judges,conviction is a pretty rre thing, besides there is the issue of all this lasting over years, not hours or days, and the final outcome seems so remote as to no longer BE a deterrent.

      That’s why a return to the death penalty in capital murder cases is mandatory. Death by firing squad, no hood, face the line. ONE course of appeal, convict gets to explain his side to the jury somehow….. no “outs” for “feeling sorry” or “apologising” or even “mending my ways”.
      Remake the connexion between killing an innocent and dying yourself is the ONLY thing that will turn this trend around.

      • Remake the connexion between killing an innocent and dying yourself is the ONLY thing that will turn this trend around.

        The Justice system is completely useless for people who already accept the punishment for the crime, prior to facing the justice system. These are people that expect to die, while they go on a mission to shoot up a bunch of kids, etc. Either they die in the gunfight with the police, or they die by suicide. What can the justice system do with these people? Nothing.

        This is a cultural problem. A moral, existential, religious problem. This is not a person who deep in their being, recognize this as a moral problem. And this can only be solved with proper upbringing, and proper upbringing is purely cultural.

    • “The pedos flock to the priesthood, teaching positions, counseling positions, etc… for essentially the same reason homicidal nuts go to schools.”

      AKA “Because that’s where the kids are!”

    • I had, past tense, a friend who was a devout born again, church deacon and the whole nine yards. He sincerely believed that it was okay to screw over folks all week long if only he went to church on Sunday and told Jesus he was sorry for lying, cheating and generally screwing over people. I told him that I didn’t think that was the way it worked, but he was convinced he was on the right track.

      Thinking about it, it seems to me that the catholics practice that. They lead a dissolute life all week and go to confession on Saturday night and it is all okay for the price of a couple of prayers for them to start over again on Monday bright and early.

      Personally I gave up on organized religion just about 70 years ago. I try my best to treat people the way I want to be treated if I don’t act like an azz void. If I act jerkish, then I expect to be treated like a jerk. What a surprise. I don’t put up with rude jerks, I just avoid them. I quit trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear a couple of decades ago.

  2. As for the sign above, “An assault on common sense”.
    If those protesting in the picture above had any “common sense”, they would be doing something productive and instead of looking for a “safe space” utopia………….that just does not exist!

  3. So much rhetoric about religion, social issues, race, etc!! The ONLY thing that will stop or greatly limit it is appropriate deterrent and punishment! I’m not talking about in the afterlife, show them the afterlife when they do the crime, the others may just be payin attention!

    • The left seems to seek a 100% solution by attacking POTG and guns. There is no absolute solution to crime. There can be a reduction and control to an extent but attacking POTG and inanimate objects is not a viable solution. The stupidity of the left is a clear definition of a lack of common sense. They should retreat permanently to their safe spaces and the world would be a better place.

      • “The left seems to seek a 100% solution by attacking POTG and guns.”

        TTAG’s ‘Facts about Guns’ section used to have Department of Justice data showing deaths by gunfire dropping from the peak around 1990 to about one-half today. I can’t locate it.

        Maybe the FBI’s Uniform Crime Report? Would anyone have that link, please?

  4. Faith does not prevent violence by gun or otherwise.

    But faith in your DGU skills with a gun can prevent that violence from being inflicted on you and loved ones, and there in lies a need for firearms.

    But no matter what Albert, dacian, Miner49, and the rest of their anti-gun anti-constitution anti-life crowd may say about that defense need …. even the Founders, over 2 million people annually, and now the decision in Bruen by SCOTUS say and prove Albert, dacian, Miner49, and the rest of their anti-gun anti-constitution anti-life crowd m, to be not only wrong but idiots as well.

  5. If it were the guns my neighborhood, where every household has multiple guns, would be a hellscape of violent crime, and places like Detroit and Baltimore would be havens of safety.

    • dont publish yur address. Your neighbourhood will be invaded by wise folk looking for a safe place to live.

  6. Kate Cohen is falsely conflating faith with dogma and fear and morality.

    Faith is not about any of those.

  7. 50 years ago, guns were easier to get and far less regulated than today. There weren’t mass school shootings and wide scale inner city gang violence.

    The problem isn’t guns, the NRA, or Republicans. The problem is liberal Democrats and the 50 years of soft on crime and family destroying policies they shoved down our throats.

    Democrats caused this crime wave and no amount of blame shifting will ever relieve them of their guilt.

    FJB

    • The only widespread shootings in schools today is the minds/propaganda of the MSM and the progs. The kiddies are statistically safe in their schools. Their minds are likely unsafe in the manipulative hands of the school marm, administration, and the media.

    • The worst school killing was in the early part of the 20th century and the perp used dynamite to blow up the whole school house. I don’t remember how many children were killed in the explosion. Look up “Worst school killing int he U.S.” It’s not a new thing. It has been going on for a long time and still we refuse to adequately protect the future.

  8. I am nearly 60 and when I was in high school we had rifles and shotguns in the gun rack in the back window of our pickup trucks. Amazingly none stolen and no one shot at school. At that time Fl still executed criminals often. It’s the culture stupid!

    • Redneck.45lc, I am near(79)80 and the same was true when I was in high school. Guns hanging clearly on racks in the back window of trucks unlocked and none were ever stolen. There was never any talk or thought that I know of about shooting anything other than game for supper.

  9. There is about 100 times more molestation going on in public schools than in religion. The difference is that the government and the media cover it up. They do the same things religion did; transfer the offending teachers to other schools where they can offend again, but on a much larger scale. There is considerable evidence that molesters often pursue careers in education where they will have larger numbers of potential victims to choose from than any priest ever dreamed of.

    • “The difference is that the government and the media cover it up.”

      Say it isn’t so! If they’re willing to lie about that, what else would they be willing to lie about?

    • This is true. I’ve worked in a field where I had to deal with this, and I can with certainty say this:

      The total true number of child molesters and child molestation that occurs is absolutely astronomical. There’s a common meme the past years that says 1 out of every 4 women are raped at some point in their lives. I would say child molestation is even higher.

      If you have children you NEED to hyper vigilant and understand that it will most likely happen from someone you know and are close to who you’d never ever suspect. It’s usually another family member. Anyone who might have access to your child alone with out you present.

      The frequency of it happened has disturbed me greatly once I figured out exactly how much it happens and how many of them there are. If we could magically know for certain who they all are and gas all the child pretadors on earth, I honestly think the global population would be reduced by a quarter of its size.

      • Preach it Ron. Pedo’s are the sickest of all in my book. I dream that after this life, and if there is a God, that he may call on me to be an avenging angel of death to that group of sub-humans.

        • I dont think a human can become an angel. I guess with God all things are possible. I think our angelicness would be here on earth in the form of a Saint.
          Saint Killthepedo?
          Uhhh maybe not.

  10. I have faith. Faith in my 5shot 642 and a couple of speed strips and my ability to use them.
    If I’m going somewhere out of the ordinary I step up my game to something else I have faith in. Like a 1911 or cz75.

    • I am not perfect. I am redeemed by the Blood Of JESUS. I don’t speak for anyone but myself. It’s about the guns gal…

  11. There are those who carry to threaten or intimidate, and those who carry to respond to threats. I am in the latter. We are not the problem. My gun is a ready response much like a seat belt, air bag, fire extinguisher, or insurance policy.

  12. If you are concerned about the guns and not the culture then it is time to step up and attempt to ratify the constitution.

    Tell me how that goes for you.

    • remooving that Second Article of Ammendment will do NOTHING to end our RIGHT to the means of self-protection. The God who made us gave us our life.. AND the means/right to protect it. No words on paper can change that. Repeal away, bozos. The RIGHT TO SELF PROTECTION remains ours.

  13. Religion is personal. We all fall short and we all are forgiven(if we have accepted Christ), including homicidal maniacs.
    We need to be able to protect ourselves and loved ones. I feel that with the nanny state trying to take the place of the church, some people feel that anything goes. We have to live in the world, but our morals can be above it.

  14. Man someone has dipped pretty deep into the pool of nihilism haven’t they?

    I really want to ask how she has faith in gun control then, which has clearly and demonstrably not stopped mass shootings either.

    I wonder how this person would explain what happened in Waukesha as well.

    • WHO is this dingbat and why should anyone care what she thinks/says?

      Wash Post (NYTimes South) – not even good for the bird cage.

  15. Someone who doesn’t understand Christianity, lecturing us on Christianity… What’s next? A lecture on guns? Oh wait. Meanwhile, we have a Constitution. Does it mean anything? Check yes or no.

  16. Whether or not you believe in the big sky daddy and the hot hell, the teachings of most religions are consistent – reject materialism, embrace family, don’t do bad things to other people.

    Even modern Satanism, while embracing materialism and hedonism, at least says don’t be bad to other people in pursuit of your own self-pleasure.

    • I find it ironic how passive-aggressive atheists like busybeef choose to mock people who don’t believe in the same thing he believes in.

  17. So… If you can’t pray the evil away it’s better to be hacked to death with a machete than shot with a gun? Not sure how his argument is supposed to lead to a conclusion.

  18. Being a Christian doesn’t make you perfect here but in Gods eyes by accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior. God and the Ten Commandments helped shape common law of today . How do you know murder is wrong? By being taught and its the law simple . This country was founded and the Bill of Rights guarantee us these rights to bare arms

    • The idiot progs are really having a horrible, terrible, really back week. Let it continue.

      Waiting for WV v damn EPA.

        • It might just be the SCotUS is saving that EPA case for the last one as they head out the door for the summer.

          Destroying ‘Chevron Deference’ would be a nice ‘Fvck You’ to the Leftist Scum ™, since that would cut the BATF’s balls off when they pull bullshit like declaring arm braces to be NFA-controlled short-barrel rifles…

        • the ruling just before these last two deliberately did not reference chevron. it is already being buried.

  19. Go view the political activists supporting or protesting the recent decision regarding abortion. Compare and contrast the two sides. Then come tell me religion doesn’t affect behavior.

  20. O HECK , COME ON , HUMANS KILL HUMANS . GOD OR NO GOD BELIEF .
    IF LUCKY WE HUMANS WILL KILL OURSELVES OFF WITH GLOBAL WARMING CRISIS , AND THEN MOTHER NATURE WILL GET BACK TO TAKING CARE OF EARTH , WHAT SHE DOES BEST .
    TILL NEXT METOR STRIKE .. OR SUN BURST THING .. SOLVE OVER POPULATION…
    THEN NO NEED FOR ROE VS WADE ..
    HEAR MOTHER NATURE NOW , DOWN WITH HUMANS … YEEEA , YA FILTHY ANIMANS …

    • Critters would get along just fine without humans.
      The world definitely.
      Humans was okay when they was living on nuts and berries, then they got smart and lost their hair.
      Not to worry NTexas, when the river drops I’m scrounging lead sinkers. I’ll get the UEPFNBlomb back up and running. It’s going to take awhile to get the neutrinos back, a lot of them got out of the wash tub when I started taking the magnets off to change the polarity of earth.
      The lead ban was a big disappointment , just changing the earth’s polarity wasn’t going to be near as fun as blowning up the universe forever.
      Down With Humans

    • ^Climate cultist alert (NTexas). What good is planet Earth without humans to enjoy it? Is nonhuman life more important than human life? I want you to think about that when a hungry wild animal approaches you.

      • “Is nonhuman life more important than human life?”

        Don’t be surprised if the Possum answers in way not exactly pro-human… 🙂

      • “Without humans to enjoy it.”
        Yep, I like listening to the birds greet the day when the Sun rises. It’s almost like there singing praise to the creator.
        The problem with humans is they cant enjoy the true earth, they are to busy racing down the hiway all pissed off and mad about it on their way to Disneyland.

        • That’s the truth! The funny part is they call themselves environmentalists yet rarely take a step off the safety of their concrete jungle. Speaking of the jungle, I’m approaching ten on the annual tick count. Man, I hate those things.

    • well, looking back at history, “mother nature” hasn’t done such a great job of caring for this old dirtball. Volcanoes, famines, draughts, floods, hurricanes, massive earthquakes, floods, strange diseases wiping out vast populations of animals…. yeah, right.. your “nture’s hrmony” meme don’t look so good.

  21. I think anybody with hot killin on their mind ain’t thinking about God, Heaven or hell.
    Culture, what culture is he talking about, gunm culture?
    I didnt know there was such a thing.

    • Possum Hell would be a burrow surrounded by freeways with semi-trucks on them going 80 mph at all hours of the day and night… 🙂

  22. I find it interesting that most people on the left ignore the fact that the entertainment industry makes many violent movies highlighting the use of various firearms. Alec Baldwin killed someone and still has not been charged with a crime. Video games are extremely violent, and no one addresses that issue as well. Yet most of the anti-gunners are leftists? Just another example of the hypocrisy of the left. They do nothing to minimize the violence they make million of dollars promoting and then they complain because we have mass shootings and most of the shooters are in some way affiliated with the Democratic Party. Klu Klux Klan were Democrats and yet they claim to want to help blacks. Give us a break!!

    • The entertainment industry makes violent movies because that is what sales.
      If more people watched “The Singing Crawdads” instead of sex and violence thered be more crawdad movies .

      • “If more people watched “The Singing Crawdads” instead of sex and violence thered be more crawdad movies .”

        Possums love eating crawdads, don’t they?

        Raw, boiled, or steamed, Possum? Dusted with salt and Cajun spices? Washed down with good Kentucky Burbon?

        • Yep, but if we’re in a real hurry to get to an amusement park and enjoy life(haha) we just eat them raw

  23. How about looking at the timeline when prayer was banned in schools. How many school shootings occurred before that, and how many since then? If the former is not zero, it is so small as to not even be worth mentioning.

    How about that, Kate Cohen?

  24. Absolutely it is the culture. Or lack of. Take an honest look at what has been promoted in popular entertainment over the last 50 or so years. Look at what has become of the education system and of the political environment.
    How often is it put out that you can do whatever feels good? That something is always someone elses fault? Morals, or the lack of are taught, not instinctive. Poor decisions are excused or even encouraged.
    If it were the guns, how do the anti gun crowd explain how few shootings occur at 2nd Amendment rallies? Or even how many of us who have multiple firearms, pass the NICS BG checks without a question? Most of us on this board know folks with large collections of firearms. If it were the guns causing the violent crime, would it not stand to reason that those folks would be in the front of the line committing the crimes?
    Sorry folks, it is the culture of blame and excuses that are the cause of the crime, not the tools, or implements used.

  25. Speaking of culture: Lets not lose sight of the fact that mandatory attendance laws keep the dirtballs from dropping out or being kicked out the way they were in the past. There is a small subset of that age group that needs to be removed from the general population so as not to disrupt the education of those who genuinely want to learn. To watch the movie “Lean on Me” and see the Principal expel most of the troublemakers it seems like another world.

    And for those who feel this is not fair to the dirtballs I am fine with having an “Alternative” school available to them. But any kid who disrupts the learning of their peers needs to be removed.

  26. The growth in shootings correlate with the increase of un-earned self esteem movement.
    The Left poisons everything that it touches and it’s been fondling and F’ing education for many decades.

  27. I personally will not be infanticised by religion and I take responsibility for my own actions. I do NOT need religion to give me a moral compass I KNOW the difference between right and wrong. I do not need to believe in myth and magic and I do not need to believe in Virgin Birth.

    Do I believe in Christian Principles?

    Yes but I consider that Christian Principles are no more relevant than other religious practices which mostly have HARMONY and RESPECT for our fellow men and women as their core values within any given community.

    Even ISLAM which until quite recently in historical terms was THE religion of enlightenment, Learning and Science and even the emancipation of women!!

  28. I am dying laughing at the shirt
    “Arm me with books, not bullets”
    Why not both? Some of the most historical figures are educated militants. Just sayin… Doesn’t hurt to be smart and want to defend yourself.

  29. In the for what it is worth slot; technically in old Hebrew, it reads ‘thou shall not murder’. A slight but important difference from ‘thou shall not kill’. It means you are not to take an innocent life.

  30. Regarding “Assault on Common Sense”, singular or plural, I submit that the unending psalm singing of the anti gun set is a prime example thereof. The problem is NOT some inanimate object, otherwise known as a firearm, the problem is criminals and the mentally disturbed, which for some reason people refuse to recognize. Damned if I can say why.

  31. I flat out refuse to be lectured about “Common Sense” by a Political Party that has gleefully abandoned any vestige of Common Sense. They won’t/don’t listen. They’ve made up their minds and believe in a created from thin air false dichotomy with obvious hypocritical fallacies.

    The Loony Liberal Left and Democrats can kiss my hairy, white, 2nd Amendment and God Loving Arse. Until they’re willing to sit at the table and listen to reasoned rationale and really compromise, they can go fornicate themselves.

  32. The ‘too many guns’ mantra is not really valid. Most of the guns (90+%) are owned by law abiding citizens. Last I heard, criminals using firearms only make up about .5% of the population. So if most of the guns are in the hands of law abiding citizens, how is there, and what is ‘too many’ guns? Question for people that may know more about it, are people who report a weapon stolen, are they tracked in some way to ensure they are not having ‘multiple’ weapons stolen?

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