While walking around our nation’s capital this morning I ran smack dab into the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms’ roving billboard o’ gun truths. For those of you who don’t know, the CCRKBA put this vehicle together to counter the Mayors Against Illegal Guns roving billboard o’ gun grabbing propaganda which states that 34 people are killed by guns in America every day. Something tells me the statistics aren’t really working in their favor on this one. This is all leading up to an event hosted by the CCRKBA and the Virginia Citizen’s Defense League in downtown D.C. tomorrow morning. At “Guns Save Lives” gun rights activists will be “discussing the benefits of firearms ownership, and what gun prohibitionists are trying to hide with their current effort to scare the public into supporting additional restrictions on gun owners.”
The 34 firearms deaths per day figure is supported by FBI crime data.
There is no data to support the CCRKBA’s claim of 2191 victims per day defended, nor does CCRKBA state how it obtained the figure. It appears to have been pulled from thin air, and it defies common sense as it represents 700,000 such events per year. If there are that many events each year, they are not being reported. And if they are not being reported, where did CCRKBA get its numbers?
Magoo
Research 700,000 to 2.5 million most by presentation of weapon only.
I’m familiar with the 2 million/2.5M number. It was obtained from a study of 5,000 respondents in the early ’90s and then expanded to the entire population. And then never updated.
Look at it this way: If there are really 2000+ cases per day of citizens using guns to thwart crime, you would think that at least 100 of these cases would find their way into the daily news cycle. But you’ll be lucky to find a handful on even the “best” days, if that. What we have here is the wishful thinking of the gun lobby, not objective data.
Isn’t normally reported like: white man kills black boy or there was a shooting at pickyourplace, charges are pending.
Ignoring Magoo and other anti’s this bill board is opposed to; We had an event just recently in Los Angeles with this truck and CGF in opposition to MAIG. MAIG has stopped posting their itinerary and is avoiding all counter opposition to their roaming billboard of lies since the debut of their opposition. I call that a success.
Sorry Mr. Magoo
http://law.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=7212&context=expresso
There is your peer reviewed study showing more guns in the hands of law abiding citizens = less crime.
Which is a totally different question. Depending on the claim, I may well agree with it for all I know.
We are dealing with a different and very specific question: whether 2000+ potential crimes per day are averted with firearms. Come on, people. Apply a little mental discipline.
actually using russia as an example shows the lack of truth to this paper…russia has one of the worst unemployment ratings in the world….teens there are using chemicals that are guaranteed death sentences…using a country that has done nothing for its citizens as the basis for a research paper shows the lack of evidence to the point in general…
Actually, the 700,000 figure is the most conservative number and IIRC, derives from FBI crime reports.
Kleck found 1.5 to 2 million defensive gun uses (DGUs) in his initial study – but that study was roundly attacked for purported errors in methodology. Kleck repeated the surveys addressing the errors, and found his initial conclusion was incorrect. Instead of 1.5 to 2 million, the numbers were 2 to 2.5 million.
Because 98% of these cases do not involve the weapon being fired. Of those cases where a gun is fired, many miss the target. Most of those who do hit the target do not result in death. Consequently, little coverage is given to the vast majority of DGUs.
Because of a fear on the part of most using guns for self defense that involving the police will only get them in trouble, the majority of DGUs are unreported and it is generally only those where someone is wounded or killed that are recorded. If one puts the number of cases where a gun is fired at 2%, target hit at 50%, death results at 5% to 20% we’re talking about .2% of 2 million we’re talking 1000 to 4000 DGUs resulting in fatalities each year. Those figures are certainly in line with reported results.
I have had one DGU myself. It sufficed to show the gun and the will to use it. I never reported the incident.
Kleck’s work isn’t taken seriously anywhere but within the gun lobby. For one thing it’s ancient, performed over 15 years ago. For another, his database is tiny.
Very good counter, BambiB! It kills me how the Leaning Left never trusts stats that don’t support their agenda! So, in that same vein and using THEIR methodology, please allow me to wander off! Yes, I have had many DGU’s. I have also had several Defensive Knife Uses. I have also had umpteen Defensive Attitude Uses-wielding a pissy migraine-induced demeanor at Mr. “give me a dollar!” like some raging psychic light saber! None have been reported as a crime stat. I do recall a recent Defensive Mop Usage where an elderly gentleman put his Swiffer to good use to stop a man entering his home! That was reported, and since the criminal was “accosted” I assume a Cleaning Utensil Control Bill is but around the corner!
More guns = less crime also means guns = saves lives.
Logic 101
That’s OK. Cook and Ludwig of gun control fame repeated Kleck’s study under “more rigorous” standards and got 1.5 million. I will be happy to stipulate to that number. http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/165476.txt
The NIJ (Cook/Ludwig) report did not claim 1.5 million DGUs. Obviously, either you haven’t read it or you have chosen to misrepresent it. The report put up the 1.5 million number and then proceeded to demolish it. One of the problems noted: DGUs would seem to outnumber crimes reported by an incredible margin in several important categories, including rape and robbery.
Here is a handy PDF version of the same report. See pages 8 through 10.
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf
@ K-Romulus
WOW thanks for that link its getting saved for future arguments!!
how many of those are illegals ??hmmmm
@Magoo:
If that’s your take on the study, you are entitled to your interpretation. The authors tout the detailed data collection methods and the other conclusions that they draw from it. What they don’t like is the inconvenient truth regarding how that data set contributes to quantifying defensive gun use. It is amusing how they try to discredit that part. I encourage everyone to read the report and draw their own conclusions.