Charlotte, North Carolina had another round of protests last night concerning the police shooting of Keith Lamont Scott during the service of a warrant on another person. These protests were comparatively peaceful compared to the rioting that took place earlier in the week.
There were contentious moments between demonstrators and police, but it was a far cry from the looting and destruction that was seen Wednesday night. Local officers’ ranks were augmented by members of the National Guard carrying rifles and guarding office buildings against the threat of property damage.
People chanted “release the tape” and “we want the tape” while briefly blocking an intersection near Bank of America headquarters and later climbing the steps in front of the city government center. Later, several dozen demonstrators climbed onto an interstate highway through the city, but they were pushed back by police in riot gear.
The North Carolina National Guard was deployed by Governor Pat McCrory. The Governor had declared a State of Emergency to be in effect for the city previously. Charlotte Mayor Jennifer Roberts has, pursuant to the Governor’s declaration, imposed a curfew extending from 12:00AM to 6:00AM for the duration of the Emergency.
The slogans chanted by the protestors referenced the bodycam and dashboard cam footage recorded when Scott was shot by Officer Brentley Vinson on Tuesday. Vinson, like Scott, is African-American. Thus far, Charlotte Police Chief Kerr Putney has been unwilling to release the footage to the public. Putney was quoted in the Charlotte Observer as saying that the videos would be released “when we believe there is a compelling reason.” He said he supports transparency in the case, “but I never said full transparency…. If you think we should display a family’s worst day for public consumption, that is not the transparency we’re speaking of….” The Washington Post had an additional quote from him, that is evocative of Akira Kurosawa’s Rashomon:
“I can tell you this: There’s your truth, my truth and the truth,” Putney said. “Some people have already made up their minds.”
The Video is Inconclusive
Although not released to the public, a number of parties have already viewed the footage, including the Chief, the Mayor, and members of Scott’s family. Oddly, they all appear to agree on one thing: the video does not provide damning evidence one way or another concerning whether Scott had a gun when confronted by police. Here’s what they had to say:
Scott family attorney Justin Bamberg: “It is impossible to discern from the videos what, if anything, Mr. Scott is holding in his hands.”
Chief Kerr Putney: “[The video does not provide] absolute, definitive visual evidence that would confirm that a person is pointing a gun. I didn’t see that in the videos I reviewed…. What I can tell you, though, is that, when taking in the totality of all the other evidence, it supports what we’ve heard and the version of the truth that we gave about the circumstances that happened that led to the death of Mr. Scott.”
Charlotte Mayor Jennifer Roberts: “[T]he videos are inconclusive.”
Police Arrest Rayquan Borum for Death of Justin Carr during Riots
In other related news, Charlotte police have announced that Rayquan Borum has been arrested in the shooting death of Justin Carr during the riots on Wednesday night.
What Gun for Civil Disorder?
RF reported today that there has been something of a buying spree in Charlotte for personal defense weapons as a result of the violence and asks: what’s the best personal defense firearm for dealing with a riot?
Carrying While Black?
People are starting to ask whether or not police are holding African-Americans to a different standard when it comes to exercising their rights protected under the Second Amendment. Monique Judge, writing for The Root asks why police were interacting with Scott in the first place in a state where constitutional open carry and licensed concealed carry is the law. Dean Weingarten reported that Corine Mack, the head of the NAACP in Charlotte came out in defense of African-Americans’ right to keep and bear arms, and talks about some statistics relating to race and violence.
It is good that the violence appears to be under control at last, but people are still angry and afraid, and a lot of questions remain to be answered about this incident before we can move on.
I’m not certain whether “carrying while black” is a thing, but I know if I were black I would certainly be concerned with the possibility, which would make me hesitate to assert my rights. I would *certainly* not OC until there was plenty evidence I could not be killed just for the hell of it.
The guy in the WalMart was killed for simply holding a TOY gun, and the police didn’t think twice about shooting him.
NERF gun. Still dead.
While it’s true that that circumstance appeared to be a case of absolutely unjustifiable murder by the cops, it seems your facts are off. The case I remember, the man was fiddling around with a BB gun, not a NERF gun. And that BB gun looked quite realistic, it certainly wasn’t bright orange and green.
I have never heard of any officer shooting anyone for holding a NERF gun.
The cops still murdered him with no threat to themselves.
Some panicked a-hole was saying a guy was waving a gun (not BB, not NERF) around the store to the 911 folks, the police had every reason to believe this guy would open up on them immediately. They came up on him (a sane person would observe him first, unless he were actively shooting that instant, but apparently police don’t for some reason) and I’m sure he turned to face them while holding the toy when he was alerted to their presence, at which point he was killed. The caller should have been punished (if not murder, some lesser charge of inciting panic over nothing, with a crapload of civil liability from the guy’s family) but the cops responded mostly how we’d want and expect them to, were there a guy in Walmart waving an AR15 around like a madman.
NOT a Nerf!
The Ohio Attorney General’s office has said that the gun Crawford was carrying was an MK-177 BB/Pellet rifle, also known as a “variable pump air rifle.”
BB and Pellet guns do not have orange tips and are usually not in cartoon colors is the visual difference.
And they don’t have orange tips because they aren’t ‘safe’. Getting shot in the face by a pellet rifle isn’t like getting shot by a nerf gun.
And a lot of those air rifles are damn near as dangerous as a 22LR, as far as potential for lethality. Not *hugely* different from waving around a knife in reality (and it’s not like you can tell a BB gun is loaded easily)
Every semester when I taught a section on race and ethnicity, I asked my students to raise their hands if they’d been hassled (defined, being stopped for no reason, detained, having their car searched, being threatened with arrest or being humiliated or intimidated) by cops. Year after year, the hands that went up usually belonged to Black or Hispanic kids. These were all upwardly mobile college students, most held steady jobs and were working to support themselves while they went to school and yet they were extremely wary of even routine interactions with the police. When I then asked how many Anglo students had been correspondingly hassled by cops, almost no hands when up.
While a police officer on Chicago’s west side, I repeatedly arrested black people, time after time, just black people.
Does that make me a racist?
I tried to arrest white people, I just couldn’t find any.
Area and time of day have alot to do with this. Not just “color” of lack of.
I think this is why Black Lives Matter has such powerful resonance despite the many lies that fuel it. To most of the people who agree with the movement it feels like truth because it’s a rational (rationalizable) emotional extension of negative experiences they’ve already had.
Didn’t bother to take a survey on what they were doing when ‘hassled,’ now did you? Not like that matters, right?
Up to no good, no doubt. You know how these rascally Black or Hispanic college students are. After all, working a couple of jobs and trying to stay in school builds up lots of tension in a 20 something. Sometimes they just need to blow off steam, right?
Jeffery Dahmer went college and had a job… Let’s not all pretend college and employement make you a saint.
Blacks receive more police attention because, where ever you are, the black community is a plague of criminality and general jackass behavior. It’s unfortunate for blacks that aren’t scumbags, but till black America quits sucking they’ll receive greater scrutiny. Seeing as how they seem to be doubling down on being stupid and violent, I don’t expect that change will come anytime soon.
Of there are concerns, than it’s a thing. If it weren’t, there would be no concerns.
I understand that he was a felon with previous gun charges.
Not that the police had to know it prior, or possibly they did.
Anyway, one should follow orders, or face the consequences!
And that scares the hell out of me, because I am deaf!
Same here. And there was a report in the news just within the last month or two about a deaf motorist who was shot and killed for failure to comply with officers’ orders.
I looked it up, it happened in North Carolina. Link to the story here: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/25/us/nc-trooper-being-investigated-for-shooting-of-deaf-man.html
It happened in NC, and yet, no riots- I mean, protests. I guess deaf lives don’t matter (enough).
Link?
I read several followup reports on that incident, and the shooting wasn’t because he was deaf, but because he was a raging psycho. Do what he did, and you will get shot — and should — no matter who you are.
But yes, otherwise it is cause for concern. How do you communicate the fact that you can’t hear them without getting shot for making some kind of move that’s misinterpreted as noncompliance or a threat?
We’d like to think that anyone who’s been deaf for any length of time ‘knows’ how to communicate their disability; Yet, we also don’t think about the possibility of the deaf person being that way because of another disability, one that they’ve had all their lives, one that makes it impossible for them to be trained in what to do and leaving them with no comprehension of the danger of disobeying/misunderstanding/ignoring police commands in a bad situation.
When ‘shoot/don’t shoot’ interactive training videos first came out, one on the old FATS simulator sent you to a railroad yard on a report of a ‘man with a gun.’ The scenario has you contact a young (white) male of adult size standing on the tracks some feet from you with both hands behind his back, facing you with an ‘odd’ expression; You give him the repeated commands to stop, turn around, raise his arms, all of that, but he just walks rapidly and forcefully toward you until he’s only a few feet away, then he suddenly whips both arms from behind his back–to reveal a card telling you that he’s deaf. All of this time, you’ve been at ‘guard’ with your pistol, which normally would make your sincerity clear.
Now, do you wait until the supposed ‘gun’ behind his back is fully revealed (and he either shoots you dead with it if he DOES have a gun, or, luckily, you see that it’s only a card and you both live), or do you fire as his arms come around? Bear in mind, you’re ‘primed’ with the knowledge that there’s a ‘man with a gun,’ and often that’s about all that you know–for example, the ‘witness’ hung up on your dispatcher. It’s less than a second to decide, and your realization time is about 3/4 of that time. If you do not fire, in this particular scenario you are a hero; If you fire, you are the monster. However, if you change the scenario, and still wait to see what is revealed only to find that the card is a handgun, you are now a dead hero.
It’s a very simple scenario, but it’s one that could just as easily be very real. Imagine what you would do.
I confess, by the way: ‘I killed’ him.
Neither I nor anyone in my unit shot even one of the plethora of morons, or jackasses in Afghanistan. We didn’t beat, berate, or abuse questionable people, the uncooperative, not even the suspect people on our hard knock raids got shot. We didn’t disrespect their crops by walking through their fields when they were planted. No one shot at us, no one ambushed us and they knew we were patrolling that way too. ROE were explicit, you can only shoot if the weapon is being raised at you.
To my knowledge, every single one of us came back alive. Funny how that works?
Its the job of police to act as peace officers and stick themselves in harms way, not shoot first and ask questions later. Don’t like it then don’t take the job.
Uh, violent felons with prior felonies (like shooting at cops!) often are ‘visibly scary dudes’ you would rationally cross the street to avoid. What, you think an ex-con would-be cop-killer who spent time in the pen was wearing a sweater and talking about buck-buck? Or was he in reality high as hell, carrying a gun, and getting tough with the cops because he was an idiot with a violent lack of self control, while his stupid girl was shrieking “Don’t do it!” as they drew down on him?
What’s “buck-buck”?
I don’t know what the above buck-buck is in reference to, but I immediately thought of this:
Carrying While Black may or may not be a thing; again, the totality of circumstances need to be known in order for any rational conclusions to be reached.
Here’s what we do know:
1) Keith Lamont Scott was a convicted violent felon, who had been in and out of the jail and court systems for violent assault, assault with a deadly weapon, assault with intent to kill, and (most recently) DWI.
2) The officers said he had a gun in his hand, whether it’s clearly discernible on the tape or not is a secondary issue.
3) A gun was found on the scene (or “planted” on the scene, depending on who you believe)
Did Mr. Scott have a gun? While others have said “it doesn’t matter”, it in fact matters HUGELY. As a convicted felon, he was prohibited from possessing firearms or ammunition. If he did have a gun on him, and the cops approached him — he’s going back to jail, and he knows it. If the cops approached him and he was, as the family says, “reading a book”, then — his attitude would presumably be very different.
So which of these factors matter more – “carrying while a convicted felon for violent assault”, or “carrying while black”? I dare say his behavior, rather than his color, may have influenced the officers’ actions more, at least in this case. Unless, of course, the officers planted the gun and disposed of the book which, while possible, doesn’t necessarily seem the most plausible turn of events given the history of unsuccessful police encounters with Mr. Scott.
Short of personal recognition, the cops had no way of knowing if he was a convicted felon or not. So his past record is irrelevant to his murder by armed government employees. Mere possession of a firearm should never give government employee the privilege to shoot citizens, PERIOD.
Nice job completely missing his point- namely, that the felon in question knew that he was a felon and that fact likely influenced his behavior in the same way Michael Brown knew he had just committed a robbery.
Also had a traumatic brain injury, which affected his ability to reason and process conflicting stimuli. That may have been the deciding factor here: he didn’t (and couldn’t) respond like most other people would have, because he couldn’t. And the police had no way to know that.
There was no way that those LEO”s could have known who he was or what he was convicted of prior to the engagement. The points are irrelevant. There is a video by his wife from the other side. Supposedly he had a traumatic brain injury and maybe had issues with cognition. I do believe that 1. Cops view all who do not wear the unifpor to be the enemy. 2. Dark skin males are viewed especially as a threat. These two theories are cultural and I cannot blame those cops totally but, justice should be outcome. Whether he brought it upon himself (he earned it) or the cop should have charges.
Nothing Compares ™, eh? How come Tulsa can release their video without the blue wall getting in the way. The chif already knew that the video showed nothing.
Now the question is, do you believe a police force and a chief that stonewalled this info?
Hey Custodian Rush Limbaugh (who I can barely tolerate) said Oklahoma is a solid Red state(wrapped up) while NC is still in ? So the Soros/SJW azzwhole types go there to vent. Also even Stevie Wonder could see that OK po-leecegal wildly overreacted (and had at least 3 other armed dudes with her). FWIW And carrying/driving/walking and talking while black is a thing…
Is “carrying while black” a thing? I doubt it.
I can tell you from having seen it however that “Mexican carrying in a bad neighborhood while dressed like a gangbanger, publicly consuming a 40 while openly smoking marijuana, throwing gang signs and yelling ‘fuck the police’ when the cops show up” most certainly is a thing that will land you at least an assbeating.
As the old black lady sitting next to me at the time remarked “Ooooo… dey gotta get his ass”. Get his ass they did.
Scott was definitely carrying while black. He was also carrying while felon. A felon with a lengthy, violent criminal history that included firearms charges and harming women and children. Does that mean he deserved to die? Probably not. Did the cops know he was a felon in possession? Who knows, maybe, maybe not.
Play stupid games and all.
Carrying while black is NOT a thing. Being a felon-in-possession with a stolen gun tucked into the waistband of your trousers (without a holster), while having your pants hanging down off your ass like you got @$$-raped in jail and getting shot by the cops because you’re too stupid to obey lawful commands is a thing.
I carry daily. I’ve been pulled over. I’ve had a couple of cops accidentally show up at my home (malfunctioning alarm). They were as polite as I was. Neither of us had a desire/need to escalate things. I didn’t even get a flippin’ ticket. Guy sent me on my way, and that was that.
Speaking of holster-less carry… That seems to be one of the common themes in these police shootings. Guns either falling out of pockets/pants, or being carried in the hand. Holding a gun in your hands around cops pretty much guarantees an undesirable outcome.
Anyone know if any black open carry demonstrators have been shot for “carrying while black?” I haven’t seen a lot of those guys, but I know they’re out there.
Yes, carrying while black is a thing, just like driving while black is a thing. Just maybe not Scott’s thing.
I think the generally anti-gun NAACP and the liberal media believe their own rhetoric about concealed and open carry. Carry laws allow people who are not legally disqualified to carry. The law does not apply to prohibited persons. Scott was a prohibited person with a record of violence.
Family saw the video. Their response now is “No comment.” Gun
Jumping to the wrong conclusions, defending felons and criminals because they are black, ignoring facts and recognizing due process, creating hypocritical organizations, generalizing and race-baiting, and lastly rioting for no discernible benefit to society is starting to be the default “thing” whenever the police and citizens have any sort of interaction.
And it’s getting old.
Not to mention, as this tiresome and moronic behavior is seemingly becoming the norm, I wonder how much support and sympathy will be left if the very people angry at being mistreated continue to justify the same or worse behavior they are subjecting others to.
When you transition from victim to criminal (pc term: activist), you forfeit the victim card.
And every time they fail recognize a good shoot incorrectly view police action as brutality, it casts doubt on the entire argument and makes me wonder how many other instances were justified vs being misrepresented.
“Jumping to the wrong conclusions”
Like how all the police cheerleaders here assumed the victim was holding a gun until video came out showing that he was not, and the gun was in an ankle holster when the victim was murdered?
Also the irony of demanding “due process” for pigs when they are protected by special legal privileges against persecution for killing a person (i.e. giving him zero due process whatsoever). Note how the police chief now says the killer pigs *perceived” a threat, not that the victim was a threat. The damage control continues.
As a negro with guns I open carry. I’m not the only one. I have seen old and young open carry in the area. I have had no issues. But as a law abiding person I am not afraid it approached by police.
However a black person with felonies carrying a gun might get nervous when police appear.
Why are people trying to prove how bullet proof they are when they refuse to follow police instructions or orders?
Is your libertarianism bullet proof????
All the thugs got tired after one night of looting and rioting I see. Went back to sleep on the couch after smoking some pot.
In a perfect world cops would know your intentions and not shoot you. This is not a perfect world and unfortunately every action comes with its own set of risks. Anytime you brandish a firearms around law enforcement you risk getting shot even if you are one of the good guys in a mass shooting situation. It might not be right but it just is what it is, a risk. Before we try to give cops physic powers let focus on family and education and watch the amount of people who interact with cops gradually decrease. Not that its applicable in this situation.
All that being said I think we could make a solid argument that are police are under trained.
Then the cops should not even touch their guns until a person’s intentions are known. The life of a citizen is more important than the life of a cop.
You may be the exception to that rule.
If you watch the video taken by the man’s wife, a uniformed officer with an identifiable police car is only on scene for 30 seconds before the citizen was murdered. The uniformed officer never appears to make any contact with the citizen. The government employees who started this are plain clothes, wearing tactical vests that say police on the back, but don’t appear to have any markings on the front. All police officers should be in uniform at all times when they are on the job. The citizen’s wife says he suffers from a traumatic brain injury and had just taken meds. So it looks like there were three armed thugs rushing a man who was minding his own business while yelling what in all probability were conflicting commands. It is well past time to start disarming cops. Citizens should be armed, not government employees.
You’ve been talking a lot of crap in this thread. For example, you keep tossing around the word “murder”. That’s a legal term. It’s not murder until and unless a court of law says so. Either smarten up or FOAD.
What’s funny with his “defense” of innocent black lives is that I stumbled across one his posts on PJmedia where he came across as the kind of guy who wears a white bed sheet. I guess he thinks that dealing with the “black problem” should left up to white men like him.
Well, as long as you have an open mind and are willing to look at ALL the facts…
Don’t let your opinions effect the details of the story or anything…
Q: RF reported today that there has been something of a buying spree in Charlotte for personal defense weapons as a result of the violence and asks: what’s the best personal defense firearm for dealing with a riot?
A: My belt-fed ARES MCR I believe.
I’m white. I’ve been hassled by the cops lots of times. I’ve even been on the receiving end of a raid with an AR in my face. Do what the cops say and don’t make any sudden moves and you don’t get shot.
Of course, I’m smarter than the average bear, so maybe doing what I’m told comes easier for me.
Sooooo… he has TBI, just took his meds… got in the drivers seat to go pick up his kid… really? Reading a book, gets excited at a really good sentence construction, jumps out waving the book, saying “whooo boy, that’s some good prose!” At this time, an undercover police assassin notices his book… “heeeey, books are harder to get than guns…!” Clears leather and the rest is history…? Okay, got it.
After watching the video, it looks like the only correct two words in that post is “police assassin”.
When is your youtube video defending this murder coming out?
Johannes,
You need to note that reports of last night being “calmer” may be false. There are some videos and reports leaking out that show last night was pretty up there, with NG firing tear gas and rubber bullets and at least one more person shot (but don’t know by who).
It looks like the media is really trying to sell the idea of “peaceful protest” last night, but it may not be fully the case.
Just as an aside, the dead perp had a Colt 380 Mustang in an ankle holster that was exposed. Charlotte cops carry Beretta Storms, I believe in 40SW. Not sure who had the bigger POS. Wouldnt carry either unless the only other choice was a rock. Although the rock is less likely to jam or dump its mag.
“perp”: you mean victim.
Observe, even the words out of bootlicker mouths is corrupted.
Pulling a gun on cops, and his lengthy criminal record make him a PERP. Shouldnt you be throwing rocks down at the BLM riot instead of trying to correct your betters?
“Pulling a gun on cops”
Did you actually watch the video, or did you just block out the contents because they did not match your preconceived version of events?
“and his lengthy criminal record make him a PERP”
The perversion of the English language continues.
“More dead soldiers.” What kind of stupid moniker is that? You must be a Soros enabled thugster who hates America.
Yeah I watched the video. That moron had a STOLEN Colt Mustang in his hand, and an exposed ankle holster.
He also had a criminal record a mile long and shouldnt have had a STOLEN gun to pull on cops.
Any more comments you leftist weenbag? Stay off my posts with your BLM lunacy. Not sure why you are allowed to spew your leftist tripe here at all.
Wow. It seems to me that this particular firearms website is getting a plethora of these “should-the-cops-be-trusted” articles in spite of the overwhelming amount of evidence that supports the fact that there is no problem with systemic racism in our nation’s law enforcement system, the undeniable pushing of this agenda by the media under the direction and funding George Soros, the demonization of police, and the championing of criminals and their “rights” to break the law and hurt others. Just that fact that you perpetuate the ridiculous Black Lives Matter agenda with an article title, such as “Is carrying while black a thing,” makes me want to vomit. You really want to know if ‘carrying while black is a thing?’ What don’t you ask the black cops that have shot many of them.
The police do for our communities what the military does for our national security. There are different rules for engagement in each arena. Just as a soldier can and will be court marshalled for acting outside of these rules, so can the police. The only difference today is that in the past, there was a requirement of evidence that the police acted outside of the law before they were prosecuted. Today, due to the political agenda, police officers are charged for what are completely justified shootings, just because a small, dishonest segment of society chooses to conform the criminal justice system to its will. For example, in Tulsa, Oklahoma, a small female officer is confronted by a large man, high on PCP, who is disregarding her orders. The man tells her that his vehicle is going to explode, and at some point, he attempts to enter the drive door of the vehicle. The female fires her weapon, killing the suspect. In a time when men were real men, we would all agree that a woman should be able to shoot a big ol’ guy like that to defend herself, and that her justification was undeniable; but no, not today, in the day of ‘safes paces,’ so-called ‘social justice warriors,’ and faux patriots that love themselves more than God, their country, their families or those that actually sacrifice to make this country a better place.
For those who think that you shouldn’t have to do what the police tell you, you are just being a retard. The police have a job to do, and those who aren’t acting like insane idiots, criminals or being non-compliant generally come out of their interactions with the police with little more than a traffic ticket.
I back the military, and I back the blue, and I have no sympathy for the rejects that are destroying this country and crying about how the police do their job. Yeah, I know, jail the cops that abuse their authority; but we all know that is a case-by-case. Trying to blame everyone in a uniform because some minority was justifiably put down is just as morally wrong as it gets.
If men were angels, we would need no police. If the police were angels, we would need no Constitution. And if the Constitution was magically self-enforcing, we wouldn’t need to ask questions about what the police are doing, and why.
I’m certainly not saying that the police should not be accountable to anybody, or that there should be no oversight on their actions. My point is that the media is painting lawful enforcement action as a discriminatory, racially-motivated hate crimes, and people that cannot think for themselves are drinking that Kool-Aid with reckless abandon Perry an hate crimes, and people that cannot think for themselves are drinking that Kool-Aid with reckless abandon.
Anyone with any amount of common sense can tell that the average cop is just doing his job in most of these situations. It is very rare that a police officer shoot someone in a way that is not legally justifiable, let alone in a way that is definitively racist or discriminatory. This is an obvious false narrative that is being pushed, more than likely for political reasons.
Your statement about police officers and angels and the constitution is an oversimplification of this issue, in my mind. everyone knows that to be the case already, which is why there are civilian oversight boards, internal affairs departments, federal oversight, etc. The point that is not being acknowledged here is the fact that law-abiding patriots who are defending our communities are being demonized for doing their job.