BREAKING: Prosecutors Formally Charge Kyle Rittenhouse With First Degree Murder

kyle rittenhouse shooting kenosha

Kyle Rittenhouse (Pat Nabong/Chicago Sun-Times via AP)

It’s hard to view all of the video evidence that’s turned up about what happened in Kenosha Tuesday night and conclude that Kyle Rittenhouse intentionally set out to murder anyone. Especially when he did everything he could to try to find and inform police of what happened (they ignored him).

Yet Rittenhouse has now been formally charged with first degree murder, first degree reckless homicide and attempted first degree murder. Apparently being threatened with a molotov cocktail, a handgun and struck with a skateboard isn’t enough to justify armed self-defense in the Wisconsin prosecutors’ view.

Rioting in Kenosha, WI. Image source: CBS News

This kind of overcharging is how you get not guilty verdicts from juries. If Rittenhouse is found not guilty at some point down the road, the Wisconsin governor will probably want to have a lot more National Guard troops on the streets of Kenosha than he did Tuesday night.

Here’s the Associated Press’s report:

By Stephen Groves and Scott Bauer, AP

Prosecutors on Thursday charged a 17-year-old from Illinois in the fatal shooting of two protesters and the wounding of a third in Kenosha, Wisconsin, during a night of unrest following the weekend police shooting of Jacob Blake.

Kyle Rittenhouse faces charges of first-degree intentional homicide, one count of first-degree reckless homicide, one count of attempted first-degree intentional homicide and two counts of first-degree reckless endangerment. He would face a mandatory life sentence if convicted of first-degree intentional homicide, the most serious crime in Wisconsin.

The attack late Tuesday — largely caught on cellphone video and posted online — and the shooting by police Sunday of Blake, a 29-year-old Black father of six who was left paralyzed from the waist down, made Kenosha the latest focal point in the fight against racial injustice that has gripped the country since the May 25 death of George Floyd in Minneapolis police custody.

Kenosha police faced questions about their interactions with the gunman on Tuesday night. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunman walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over his shoulder and his hands in the air, as members of the crowd yelled for him to be arrested because he had shot people.

As for how the gunman managed to slip away, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth has described a chaotic, high-stress scene, with lots of radio traffic and people screaming, chanting and running — conditions he said can cause “tunnel vision” among law officers.

Video taken before the shooting shows police tossing bottled water from an armored vehicle and thanking civilians armed with long guns walking the streets. One of them appears to be the gunman.

The national and state chapters of the American Civil Liberties Union on Thursday called for the resignation of Beth and Kenosha Police Chief Dan Miskinis over their handling of Blake’s death and the subsequent protests.

Rittenhouse, of Antioch, Illinois, about 15 miles (24 kilometers) from Kenosha, was taken into custody Wednesday in Illinois. He was assigned a public defender in Illinois for a hearing Friday on his transfer to Wisconsin. Under Wisconsin law, anyone 17 or older is treated as an adult in the criminal justice system.

Rittenhouse’s attorney, Lin Wood, said the teenager was acting in self-defense. Cellphone footage shows the shooter being chased into a used car lot by someone before shots are heard and the person lies dead. The shooter then runs down the street where he is chased by several people shouting that he just shot someone. He stumbles after being approached by several more people and fires, killing another man and injuring a third.

“From my standpoint, it’s important that the message be clear to other Americans who are attacked that there will be legal resources available in the event false charges are brought against them,” he said. “Americans should never be deterred from exercising their right of self-defense.”

Kenosha’s streets were calm Thursday following a night of peaceful protests and no widespread unrest for the first time since Blake’s shooting. There were no groups patrolling Kenosha’s streets with long guns Wednesday night and protesters stayed away from a courthouse that had been the site of standoffs with law enforcement.

During unrest the previous two nights, dozens of fires were set and businesses were ransacked and destroyed.

“Last night was very peaceful,” Beth said during a Thursday news conference during which he and other city leaders refused to answer questions. “Tuesday night, not quite so peaceful, but it wasn’t too bad.”

A sheriff’s department spokesman did not immediately return a message seeking clarity on Beth’s comment.

Protesters marched past the intersection where two people were killed Tuesday night, stopping to pray and lay flowers.

The two men killed were Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, of Kenosha, and Anthony Huber, 26, of Silver Lake, about 15 miles (24 kilometers) west of the city.

A third man was injured. Gaige Grosskreutz, 26, was volunteering as a medic when he was shot, said Bethany Crevensten who was also among the group of about two dozen activists.

“He was a hero and he is a hero,” she said.

Grosskreutz, of West Allis, about 30 miles (48 kilometers) northwest of Kenosha, is recovering after surgery and is not yet giving interviews, Crevensten said.

Blake was shot in the back seven times Sunday as he leaned into his SUV, in which three of his children were seated.

State authorities have identified the officer who shot Blake as Rusten Sheskey, a seven-year veteran of the Kenosha Police Department.

Authorities said Sheskey was among officers who responded to a domestic dispute, though they have not said whether Blake was part of the dispute. Sheskey shot Blake while holding onto his shirt after officers unsuccessfully used a Taser on him, the Wisconsin Justice Department said. State agents later recovered a knife from the floor on the driver’s side of the vehicle, the department said. State authorities did not say Blake threatened anyone with a knife.

Ben Crump, the lawyer for Blake’s family, said Tuesday that it would “take a miracle” for Blake to walk again. He called for the arrest of Sheskey and for the others involved to lose their jobs. State officials have announced no charges.

In solidarity, Milwaukee Bucks players refused to play their playoff game Wednesday, temporarily halting the NBA season. They were to resume on Friday. Three Major League Baseball games were delayed because players refused to take the field and several NFL teams canceled their Thursday practices.

Also Thursday, Wisconsin Lutheran College located about 40 miles from Kenosha said it canceled a planned Saturday commencement speech by Vice President Mike Pence, citing the unrest.

Four groups representing Wisconsin sheriffs and police departments on Thursday urged Democratic Gov. Tony Evers to stop making “premature, judgmental, (and) inflammatory” comments about Blake’s shooting that they say “only add to the anger and divisiveness of an already dangerous situation.”

Evers has said he stands with everyone demanding justice, equity and accountability and against the excessive use of force against Black people.

The governor has authorized the deployment of 500 members of the National Guard to Kenosha, doubling the number of troops in the city of 100,000. Guard troops from Arizona, Michigan and Alabama were coming to Wisconsin to assist, Evers said Thursday. He did not say how many.

In Washington, the Justice Department said it was sending in more than 200 federal agents from the FBI, U.S. Marshals Service and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. The White House said up to 2,000 National Guard troops would be made available. The Justice Department also announced that the U.S. attorney’s office and FBI would conduct a civil rights investigation into the shooting of Blake, in cooperation with Wisconsin state law enforcement agencies.

comments

  1. avatar GS650G says:

    But of course we can’t have people taking on the rioters. They Intend to send the message clearly.

    1. avatar Joel says:

      My guess this is an attempt to satisfy the rioters blood lusts. It will not work, but they are attempting to do it anyway.

      Part of me admires this young man for standing up for what he believes in, but if he were my son, I’d a whooped his a$$ and locked him in his room, before Letting him voluntarily walk into a situation such as the one in Kenosha.

      All my kids have been taught to stand up for the downtrodden and oppressed, but also to avoid trouble in the first place. Don’t go looking for a fight, but never back down when cornered.

      Any word on a go fund me for his defense yet?

      1. avatar TonyT says:

        ^ ditto this

      2. avatar NormallyQuietGuy says:

        His father had a GoFundMe live for donations the morning after the incident, but they pulled it because it supported self defense shootings (ironically, they leave up violent convicted criminal campaigns). I know the father set up another campaign on Fundly, and I was still able to contribute to it earlier this afternoon so it should still be live.

        1. avatar Jim Bob says:

          Fundly page was shut down.

        2. avatar Rad Man says:

          Unbelievable. We’ll only let you solicit funds for causes we also support.

        3. avatar Lawrence says:

          “A third man was injured. Gaige Grosskreutz, 26, was volunteering as a medic when he was shot,” yeah well you happen to leave out that part about Mr Grosskreutz pointing a hand gun at the kid who shot him. And the fact that Mr Grosskreutz is a convicted felon who is not legally allowed to carry a firearm in the first place.

        4. avatar Anton Solomyr says:

          Lawrence, you must be new at this. They omit the facts that don’t fit their narrative, and if there isn’t enough to get their reader’s hackles up, they plain make up shit with absolute zero evidence (like claiming Kyle is a white supremacist).

          People in the media don’t want to report the truth anymore, they want to shape perceptions for their political, social and ideological gains. It has become an information war, if you’d pardon the expression and likely contextual connotation.

          The best thing about *right now* is the fact that so many people have camera-capable smart-phones, and tons of video footage of these events (of multiple angles), I recommend anyone who wants the truth to stop reading articles and just watch the videos or the video and still breakdowns. The less commentary the better.

          Just remember, the Truth is the first casualty of war, and a plan never survives first contact with the enemy.

        5. avatar PMinFl says:

          Reply is to Anton, At first I didn’t see the AP byline and thought “holy shot they’ve gotten to Dan, I’m gonna stop reading this blog”. Happily I was wrong, the liberal press has only shown the incident in play according to their own vision, never considered that Kyle’s life was in danger but only that he was guided by some unexplained bloodlust. Hack reporting doesn’t deserve repetition.

      3. avatar De Facto says:

        His lawyer has set up a website for this to fund the legal battle; He said it would be up in 6-12 hours, I think this is it but I would wait until he tweets confirmation that this is the legitimate website.

        His lawyer, Lin Wood’s Twitter where he mentions creating the site: https://twitter.com/LLinWood?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

        I **THINK** this is the website he was talking about setting up. : https://fightback.law/
        This site doesn’t show up on any google/internet searches, and I’m waiting for a tweet from Lin Wood confirming this as the location to give.

        There was one other gofundme alternative that was set up, it’s raised 73k, but I **CANNOT** verify the authenticity of it, who is running it, or whether it will actually go to him. Additionally the site is either being overwhelmed by everyone going there, OR it’s being DDOS’d by those who are angry that Kyle is receiving help.

        https://www.givesendgo.com/GUCZ

        I would recommend waiting until Lin Wood tweets to confirm where to donate money to help with the defense. If anyone can verify the authenticity of the givesendgo campaign, that might be preferable. I’ll update if I find out more.

        1. avatar Roger J says:

          I heard about this yesterday. Lin Wood is a nationally know lawyer who has a very formidable reputation. Best known for suing the media for liable (recently $200M+ for Nick Sandmann) for the scurrilous lies they print and air about decent people. No public defender for this kid. Thank you Mr. Wood for stepping up to the plate.

        2. avatar SkyMan77 says:

          That’s very good news!!!

      4. avatar Jim Bob says:

        Fightback Foundation (who represented the Covington Catholic School kids) will be representing Rittenhouse. They should have a webpage up soon for donations.

        https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/08/27/kyle-rittenhouse-defended-fightback-foundation-kenosha-shooting-l-lin-wood-raising-money-gofundme/5650147002/

        A lot of other sights have shut down fundraising efforts (GFM, Fundly).

      5. avatar Southern Cross says:

        Appeasement. But the mob wouldn’t be satisfied even if he was hung, intestines drawn out, fed through a tree shredder feet first, the bits burned and defecated on.

        1. avatar Someone says:

          Not satisfied, but would cheer it anyways.

      6. avatar Lance Manion says:

        Mike Graveley, the District Attorney in Kenosha, is a Democrat. Democrats all over the country are protecting the mob. So Kyle has to be made into an example, just like the McCloskys in St. Louis. It’s not about the law, it’s about what side you’re on.

    2. avatar Chester says:

      The mainstream left has been getting comfortable with political violence since the 2016 campaign. They are now letting us know that it has their official sanction and they want to maintain a monopoly on it’s use.

      1. avatar Cpt. Obvious says:

        from article: “A third man was injured. Gaige Grosskreutz, 26, was volunteering as a medic when he was shot.”

        . . . . . .

        I’m not an expert on ‘Volunteer Medic’ training these days, but I’m pretty sure they’re not supposed to rush at you as part of a violent mob and then point a Glock at your head.

        And then later tell their friend — “(My) only regret was not killing the kid and hesitating to pull the gun before emptying the entire mag into him.”

        from gateway pundit

        /2020/08/man-arm-partially-blown-off-confesses-friend-regret-hesitating-pull-gun-not-killing-17-year-old-rittenhouse/

        1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

          Yup.
          Those kind of statements will do well for the young man.

        2. avatar Supermike says:

          Don’t forget the part about Grosskreutz being a convicted felon who cannot legally carry a gun, or the fact that the first dude (who tried to throw the Molotov cocktail) is a convicted child predator.

        3. avatar LarryinTX says:

          And the Midnight Skateboarding Genius has multiple kidnapping, battery, domestic abuse graduate degrees.

        4. avatar joeyj says:

          Well Skateboard U. just graduated another DEFECTIVE CITIZEN. Fortunately, his higher education escapades have closed.

        5. avatar Lisa says:

          How about the fact that a 17 year old possessed an AK-47, crossed state lines with it, & crossed state lines to run home? Not an issue? The protesters were chasing him after he shot into the crowd, trying to take the weapon from him. And the police (& you guys) are ok with excessively armed WHITE boys but a black man trying to protect himself would be SHOT IMMEDIATELY. Or shot if NOT armed. Sit down, this is NOT what the 2A allows.

        6. avatar tommy2fer says:

          Well, Lisa, as usual you Leftys have no facts straight. The kid did not cross state lines with an AK-47. It was a borrowed AR-15 from the friend in Wisconsin he went to join u with. Never crossed state lines with firearm. Turned himself in to police. They let him go on own recognizance. He was arrested in Illinois later, but allowed to remain in Illinois until extradition about 9/25 to orchestrate with his attorney team. Kid did not shoot indiscriminately into crowd. He applied measured aimed fire in proportionate volume to the threat…..and did a Hell of a job with hits to rounds sent. Much better than the police typically do. Several times he pulled the weapon down as immediate threat diminished, only to respond correctly as threats re-emerged. Kinda proud of the 17 year old kid acting so measured. You couldn’t comprehend video more complicated than Daffy Duck and Porky Pig. Multiple videos clearly show the whole scenario from him being shot at and responding to the multiple disparity of force elements kid encountered and handled in appropriate level of self defense. Know you don’t what to believe that, but then, no one cares what you believe. Cue the Libtard head EXPLOSION….in three, two, one!!!! STFU.

        7. avatar MB (the real MB) says:

          @tommy2fer: Thank you for setting the record straight, @Lisa is obviously has no business going anywhere near a computer keyboard, never mind a firearm. Yet these “people” vote and reproduce… No wonder America is so F’ed up.

    3. avatar Nonips says:

      We the People need to make it clear to anyone politicians judges that we will not allow this to happen and then we need to let him know to sue the governor mayor and police chief for not doing their job prosecute them as well to a good stretch in prison no parole no pardon

  2. avatar Boog Boi Chad says:

    Whut we can no longer defend ourselves without fear of punishment!? Boogaloo time!

    1. avatar Fosty says:

      Agreed. The people of Kenosha should fight back somehow. Burn down the courthouse I whatever.

    2. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

      Not if you’re defending yourself in an incident that you yourself instigated while armed. Remains to be seen whether that can be established beyond a reasonable doubt.

      1. avatar The Huscarl says:

        Have yet to see any evidence that he instigated anything.

        1. avatar kj says:

          Have yet to see any evidence.

        2. avatar The Huscarl says:

          @kj
          I’ve seen a lot of exonerating evidence.

        3. avatar anonymous4goodreason says:

          Usually I’m the last one to say this but loading up the AR, crossing state lines, and entering a riot zone could be construed, if the jury is biased, as premeditation. After all, he did travel there with the intention of killing someone if necessary to protect people & property.

          I hope I’m wrong but I don’t think things look too good for him.

        4. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Getting up in the morning could be “construed” to be all manner of shit, but it proves nothing. We have a statement from the survivor that he regrets not drawing his illegal gun and emptying it into Kyle, that might be grounds for Attempted first degree murder, has that been charged?

      2. avatar Thixotropic says:

        You leftist trolls have a vivid imagination.

        …And you are liars.

        1. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

          Feel free to point out the supposed lie:

          “A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him or her and thereby does provoke an attack is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense against such attack, except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. In such a case, the person engaging in the unlawful conduct is privileged to act in self-defense, but the person is not privileged to resort to the use of force intended or likely to cause death to the person’s assailant unless the person reasonably believes he or she has exhausted every other reasonable means to escape from or otherwise avoid death or great bodily harm at the hands of his or her assailant.”

          https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/III/48

        2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          Serpent_Vision,

          Apparently, reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Read the section of law again that you cited.

          I will even break it down for you:

          “A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him or her and thereby does provoke an attack is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense against such attack …”

          Let’s pause right there. Rittenhouse was NOT engaging in unlawful conduct likely to provoke others to attack. Standing guard at a private business to deter/stop arsonists from torching that private business is NOT illegal and NOT likely to provoke others to attack.

          “… except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. In such a case, the person engaging in the unlawful conduct is privileged to act in self-defense …”

          And let’s pause there. Not that Rittenhouse was engaged in said “unlawful conduct”, but even if he was, he is “privileged to act in self-defense” if he had a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm. A mob who pursues you, throws a Molotov cocktail at you, yells “beat his ass!” and tries to stomp on you when you fall down, tries to bash your head with a skateboard, and then tries to walk up and execute you with a handgun — you would have a very reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm.

          “… but the person [who engaged in unlawful conduct] is not privileged to resort to the use of force intended or likely to cause death to the person’s assailant unless the person [who engaged in unlawful conduct] reasonably believes he or she has exhausted every other reasonable means to escape from or otherwise avoid death or great bodily harm at the hands of his or her assailant.”

          And Mr. Rittenhouse did EXACTLY that. He fled the mob which was pursuing him until he was cornered and shot his pursuer who had just thrown a Molotov cocktail at him. Once again, he attempted to flea from the mob who was pursuing him until he fell down on the street and, before he could get up to continue his escape, found himself under attack from three people who tried separately and in rapid succession to stomp on him, bludgeon him (with a skateboard), and shoot him (with a handgun).

          To summarize:
          1) Mr. Rittenhouse was NOT engaged in illegal conduct likely to provoke others to attack.
          2) And even if he was, he exhausted all measures trying to escape before he had no choice but to defend himself from imminent attack likely to cause death or grievous bodily harm.
          3) Thus Mr. Rittenhouse did NOT break that law.

        3. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

          uncommon_sense,

          With a bit more reading comprehension yourself, you’d be able to distinguish between a comment on the general law from a comment on a specific incident.

          As a hint, when a writer says “Remains to be seen….”, they’re acknowledging that the particular case under discussion is still unclear and that they aren’t willing to make a judgement on it without more facts.

        4. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          Serpent_Vision,

          Wow, you really are stubborn.

          The original thought:
          “Whut we can no longer defend ourselves without fear of punishment!?”

          Your assertion:
          “Not if you’re defending yourself in an incident that you yourself instigated while armed.”

          And, from my summary which TTaG apparently decided to delete:
          Mr. Rittenhouse was not engaged in any illegal activity likely to provoke someone to attack, and, even if he was, indeed had the privilege to defend himself if he had exhausted all possible means of escape — which he did.

      3. avatar Jimbo says:

        Pathetic you need to go back to the kiddie table and let the grown men talk.. stopping criminals from causing damage that’s not free insurance costs money no matter who tells you different… it’s called a deductible that can be stopped by killing anyone causing damage… worthless people America is in trouble

        1. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

          “It is not reasonable to intentionally use force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm for the sole purpose of defense of one’s property.”

          https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/III/49

          Right or wrong, I didn’t write the law, I only look it up online rahter than trusting what blowhard commenters on TTAG claim the law to be.

        2. avatar GS650G says:

          Someone hits with a firebomb or a skateboard they get a 5.56 for free.

        3. avatar De Facto says:

          @Serpent Vision, your name is very apt. Nice of you to choose a moniker related to the prince of lies.
          That statute is utterly irrelevant. Kyle did not intentionally use lethal force for the sole purpose of defense of property. He used lethal force for the preservation of his own life. He abandoned the property he was defending and retreated when it became clear that violence was imminent. It was only when pursued, hearing a gunshot and seeing a violent felon charging him with no recourse for escape that he fired. He than PHONED AUTHORITIES and tried to meet up with the cops to turn himself in. The mob then PURSUED a man who was en route to the Police to turn himself in and proceeded to strike him, causing him to fall, and then attempted to overwhelm him as he lay there one attempting to land a flying kick to his head, another beating him over the head with a skateboard, and at least one felon with full intent to kill him with an illegally concealed firearm, AFTER pretending to surrender to get Kyle to drop his guard.

          He attempted at EVERY TURN to avoid violence.
          When given NO CHOICE he used violence ONLY on those specifically assaulting his person and posing an immediate threat. After he fends off his attackers and gets off the ground, shots are still ringing out from other members of Antifa/BLM – he does not return fire, he CONTINUES TO TRY TO LEAVE AND TURN HIMSELF INTO THE COPS. Intead of blasting out at those shooting at him (who were likely using cover and other protesters as shields) he CONTINUED TO TRY AND AVOID USING LETHAL FORCE.

          Try actually WATCHING the footage.

        4. avatar Jim Bob says:

          For those “Mostly Peaceful Protestors” who claim it’s okay to loot and burn because of insurance – I wonder how they’d feel if someone torched their house or vehicle? After all, it’s not that big a deal as long as they have insurance, right? You just snap your fingers and everything’s magically back the way it was before.

        5. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

          @ De Facto,
          My comment was responsive to Jimbo-the-grown-man’s comment which appears to assert that one is justified in using deadly force to protect property (which, from the statute, appears to be untrue in WI), rather than commenting on this particular case. As stated in my previous comment, it remains to be seen whether or not any initial wrongdoing on Mr. Rittenhouse’s part with regard to provoking the incident can be established.

      4. avatar BOBO says:

        have not seen any evidence he stated anything..

        .facts are he ran away from trouble and trouble chased him down to the point he shot back

        in one case he did not shoot at an Obviously armed man when he put his hands up, too bad that armed moron chose to attack 1 second later and is now called lefty for the trouble!

        1. avatar T says:

          Other facts: a 17 year old cannot legally own a firearm, cannot legally carry it on public street. He crossed state lines to join up with a local militia to help “keep order”. He was out after the legally imposed curfew. So after breaking federal, state and local laws, he finds himself in a situation he cannot control, and must use lethal force to defend his own life. Notice that the other militia members managed to get through the night without firing their weapons. If you go looking for trouble, you’re likely to find it. Sadly, I don’t predict a positive outcome for this kid.

        2. avatar Miner49er says:

          “He than PHONED AUTHORITIES”

          Evidence to support this assertion?

        3. avatar LarryinTX says:

          You can watch it happen on the video, and it is reported from the transcript of the 911 call. He was instructed to turn himself in to the cops parked down the street, and took off to do that, with additional murderous Commies in pursuit.

      5. avatar Tex300BLK says:

        I take it that you missed the whole part where the first “victim” (angry bald white dude) was aggressively antagonizing/provoking the group of armed citizens before he split Rittenhouse away from the group chased him into a nearby car lot and then threw something at him before getting popped in the head?

    3. avatar Cale15 says:

      Once again the police are no god damn good!

    4. avatar Ron says:

      Rittenhouse is a Grade A American hero.

      He single handedly stopped what no police, sheriff or national guard unit in the entire country could do.

  3. avatar C says:

    A conviction will set a dangerous precedent but an acquittal will incite further violence. And a failure to press charges would likely incite further violence as well. I hope this kid hasn’t said a word and has a solid lawyer because it’s going to be a hard road for him.

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      If I’m not mistaken to be convicted of first-degree intentional homicide,they will have to prove he intended to kill those beyond a shadow of doubt, that maybe a hard sell for the prosecutor. Or perhaps I’m mistaken as I’m not a attorney and did not stay at a holiday inn.

      1. avatar Rob says:

        It’s actually a pretty classic move. One they use a lot for cops.

        Over charge to the point that what happened cannot hope to come to the bar for the charge. The mob sees someone charged with a major crime, not knowing the high bar, and calm down for a bit, meanwhile any lawyer with half a brain could undermine murder 1 with nothing but the video of what happened and the kid will walk.

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          I’d tend to agree with this, though with the politics of 2020 I don’t really know.

          I will say though, that for a cold, hard, rootin’, tootin’, shootin’ guy hell bent on murder this guy spent a surprising amount of time trying to avoid his victims.

          But again 2020. Dafuq do I know. Maybe that’s how premeditated murder works these days.

        2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          Tend to agree with Rob’s interpretation. No jury will ever convict on those charges.

        3. avatar Model 31 says:

          They also overcharge looking for a plea bargain. They aren’t doing the boy any favors.

        4. avatar Rob says:

          I haz a question. I’m not saying the DA is doing him any favors, the da doesn’t really care either way and but if his lawyer has half a brain he won’t advise him to plea out.

          The tactic is a job saving one, not one to let a guy off. You make a big charge show up front to calm the mob and make them like you through the next election cycle, then you either quietly dismiss when your job is secure or just take the hit on the loss in court. DAs like all other politicians know that the BLM types have the attention span of goldfish, give them what they want now, then drop the bad news when you have several years to put distance on it before you are running for your job again

        5. avatar Rob says:

          Sorry. That should have been @model 31

        6. avatar Mack Bolan says:

          In light of the video evidence if the DA moves forward with the charges, he will likely be disbarred, and has a very good chance of being charged himself for malicious prosecution.

          I’d be surprised if this even goes to trial. Kids gonna walk and be be a very rich boy. Lin Wood isn’t fooling around.

        7. avatar DL says:

          If the DA doesn’t withhold evidence presented to the grand jury this kid walks. The restraint exhibited by this 17 year old and the fact that he didn’t fire on innocent civilians speaks volumes to his intent of self defense.
          There will probably be some stupid misdemeanor charge in the final resolution of this case as is the way of these types of prosecutions.

      2. avatar CarlosT says:

        From what I understand, the standard is that he had the premeditated intent to kill somebody, beyond a reasonable doubt. They don’t necessarily have to prove that he intended to kill those specific guys, just that he set out to kill people.

        For example, had he lived, the murderer in the Las Vegas mass shooting would be guilty of first degree murder, even though he probably knew none of the people in the crowd. He definitely specifically set out to kill them; all the evidence points that way.

        I think in this case, the argument is going to be something like he armed himself and came to the riot to go protestor hunting. We’ll see how that argument plays to a jury, especially if Kenosha still looks like Falluja when the trial is going on.

        It’s obviously very early, but this case is giving me Martin/Zimmerman vibes. Getting assaulted multiple times, and eventually cornered on the ground makes you look more like prey than predator.

        1. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

          “Getting assaulted multiple times, and eventually cornered on the ground makes you look more like prey than predator.”

          The video (multiple angles), and the “get his ass!” audio will be what acquits him. A threat was made, and the attacker advanced to carry out that threat.

          Clear-cut self defense. What will suck for him will be the 18-24 months in a shitty cell waiting for trial.

          At least he will be able to afford excellent legal representation, and then some…

        2. avatar Jim Bob says:

          If there had been video evidence of the Zimmerman incident, I doubt he would have been charged.

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      None of them are black, there will be no further violence, don’t be ridiculous.

  4. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    The difference between the Bundy Ranch and Kenosha Wisconsin, is the fact that no one die at the Bundy Ranch. Also when the Oath Keepers came to Ferguson Mo. The rioting stopped. And they didn’t have to shoot anyone to make it stop. But in both cases they weren’t attacked. And Kyle Rittenhouse was. When a fire bomb was thrown at him, as he was running, trying to get away.

    1. avatar CarlosT says:

      Well, if we’re taking the Bundy saga all the way out to the Malheur reserve, then LaVoy Finicum was shot while the FBI attempted to arrest him. You may remember the nationwide riots… Oh, wait, those never happened.

  5. avatar 007 says:

    I have a feeling this kid will become an icon of second American revolution or civil war.

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      If not him or now, it’s coming,Americans versus Marxist’s.

    2. avatar Jimbo says:

      Yeah I was lukewarm until I saw the videos true American’s are sick of the lies and propaganda

    3. avatar BASHer says:

      Beyond the immediate needs Kyle has for good council and moral support he is going to need some solid guidance on discerning the good from the bad when it comes to women. Because he is going to be absolutely drowning in tail the moment he steps out of jail.

    4. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      @007,

      I’ve been getting the same feeling. Makes me wonder if the D.A. will be timing the court schedule to coincide with the November elections.

  6. Kyle Rittenhouse — THE american HERO

    1. avatar former water walker says:

      Dunno about “hero” but I support what he did. I see the leftard mob are going after TUCKER claiming he’s “fanning the flames” or some such BS. I wouldn’t go looking for trouble but the good citzens of Kenosha puzzied out….

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        You don’t know about “hero”? Let me help. Half the people around him were threatening to kill him, the other half were actively attempting to do so. Still, he kept his head and tried to avoid violence, but when it found him anyway he was prepared, and took care of the nation’s business in an admirable and permanent way. He reported his actions to authorities and followed their instructions to the best of his ability. Exactly what did he miss?

    2. avatar Ctstooge says:

      Somebody had to take the first one…Poor kid but I’m glad he did.

      1. avatar Chadwick says:

        And he actually showed a lot of restraint. Pretty great argument for that would be the commie a-hole still holding hit pistol after being shot. Hard to claim he wanted to kill everyone in sight if he hit three people and one clung to his pistol and was allowed to walk away. How many guys would have emptied all 30 as soon as the commies got violent? Not saying I would or wouldn’t, but it would be hard not to just keep popping of rounds when the mob is bearing down on you.

  7. avatar d says:

    The prosecutor should be disbarred and jailed for malicious prosecution

  8. avatar Stateisevil says:

    Hang the prosecutors from the neck until dead. Easy fix for political charges. But this is the state that made making a murderer…

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      That is the prescribed penalty for treason.

      1. avatar Umm . . . says:

        What about drawing and quartering?

        1. avatar Tom Collins says:

          Yes, perfectly appropriate after being hanged…

        2. avatar Umm . . . says:

          Provided, of course, that the hanging-phase leaves the traitor capable of savoring the rest.

        3. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Think you’re supposed to start with “breaking on the wheel”, makes the rest so much more enjoyable for the star. Pre-separating all those joints makes the quartering go easier, too.

        4. avatar Umm . . . says:

          Another excellent tradition!

    2. avatar cgray says:

      “Stateisevil” worships cops.

      Oh, the irony.

      1. avatar Jimbo says:

        I’m down with no gov like you claim to want usually the dumbasses go first… you wouldn’t live long ha ha

      2. avatar CarlosT says:

        I’ve proposed before a national “opt out” program. You register your name, your phone number, your email address, your home address, your car, etc. with the program, and you get a 5% discount on your state and local taxes, and the police will have nothing to do with you. If you call 911, you can request the fire department and EMTs, but police will not come. If the police find you unconscious on the street, once they determine it’s you, they walk away. If someone is attacking you, they’ll stop the attacker and arrest them but only for disorderly conduct. If you opt out, you opt out of everything.

        Or we can live in civil society. We can figure out rules for police that make sense while not burning down the country. For about two minutes, everybody was on the same page. Nearly everybody was by what happened to George Floyd. It was not obvious that the next step was ¥burn down America”, however, and that’s where paths diverged.

        1. avatar arc - the annoying one says:

          I like the opt-out option as long as I get to exercise my 2A rights to protect life, liberty, and property.

  9. avatar 007 says:

    I wonder if the prosecutor is one of these prosecutors and state attorneys who are subsidies by a Nazi collaborator.

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      I wouldn’t bet against your thought.

      1. avatar Chadwick says:

        Better odds than putting all chips on black at any given time.

  10. avatar Miner49er says:

    Daily Mail:

    “Witness accounts and video show that the shootings took place in two stages: The gunman first shot someone at a car lot, then jogged away, stumbled and fell in the street, and opened fire again as members of the crowd closed in him. 
    Police apparently then let the young man walk past them with a rifle over his shoulder with his hands in the air.“

    Apparently he had the opportunity to turn himself into police at that moment but chose to flee across state lines to his home.

    Many unanswered questions, the investigation should prove interesting.

    1. avatar The Huscarl says:

      The video shows him walking toward police with his hands up, trying to go to them. They told him to get out of the way. Looks like they didn’t realize he was the shooter and missed his attempt to surrender in the fog of war.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        They may have missed what was happening because they were locked up in their armored behemoth, or in a police SUV where they refused to lower the window. Either way, his stated report that he called 911 and was told to go turn himself in to them seems entirely correct, there is no hint of evil intent or trying to escape responsibility, this kid did nothing wrong, give him back his rifle and replace the ammo he used doing the job of the police. Then arrest the surviving thug, amputate his arm and put him in prison for 5-10 years, and we’ll call it a day.

        1. avatar tommy2fer says:

          And the choir sang “AMEN” and “Hallelujah” preach it Brother!!

    2. avatar Chief Censor says:

      He went up to the cops and was turned away. He did call 911 and told them he shot someone. He also turned himself in later.

      The cops passed him up to go take care of the people who were shot. The police put the wounded into the MRAPs and left. Police were prioritizing life over chasing the numerous gunmen who were shooting. Keep in mind the police were hanging out all night in their armored vehicles yelling at people over the PA. The police didn’t want to get out of their armor.

  11. avatar KRP says:

    Can someone please explain to me why the man who was holding a gun and pointing it at the kid when he got shot wasn’t arrested or charged with a crime? Obviously there were others assaulting and battering this kid of which 2 are dead but there were others involved in chasing the kid and doing harm to him and they too get off scot-free??!!!

    Democrat views on justice and criminal activity are backasswards in these dem controlled states!!!

    1. avatar RGP says:

      Because he and the prosecutor are both being paid by the same people.

    2. avatar Dude says:

      Sure KRP. Didn’t you read the article? It very plainly says the guy was a medic and was even praised as being a hero. He was probably checking to see if the kid needed any medical attention, and just forgot that he was holding a pistol in his hand.

      1. avatar The Kenosha Kid says:

        The guy was lucky he lived. Like the other two dead ones he has a police record for *SURPRISE *
        Illegal possession of a firearm because he’s a convict.
        Then the idiot doubles down on stupid for admitting he regretted not killing Rittenhouse.

        Anyone see a double standard? Rittenhouse is in jail and the Leftie scumbag hasn’t been charged with contributing to a public nuisance, curfew violation, and slew of other charges because the Libtard authorities have their priorities messed up.

        1. avatar RGP says:

          An unfortunately widespread double standard, evident in practically every city where rioters have gone berserk.

        2. avatar strych9 says:

          “Illegal possession of a firearm because he’s a convict.
          Then the idiot doubles down on stupid for admitting he regretted not killing Rittenhouse.”

          Do you have links supporting these statements?

          I don’t doubt you I just don’t have time to look these things up right now.

        3. avatar Chadwick says:

          It’s a pretty good argument for wearing a mask, and if you have to shoot…. You shut up about it. Because if you aren’t a marxist or a protected color you’re going to jail.

        4. avatar Mister Fleas says:

          “Illegal possession of a firearm because he’s a convict.
          Then the idiot doubles down on stupid for admitting he regretted not killing Rittenhouse.”

          “Do you have links supporting these statements?

          I don’t doubt you I just don’t have time to look these things up right now.”

          Here is Gaige Grosskreutz, aka One Arm’s regret:

          https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1299086141329563648

          And here is the Leftist’s arrest record:

          https://archive.is/kccfA

        5. avatar Shiffrod says:

          I dont think yall read that arrest record for Gaige correctly. Says he was 43 at time of arrest and the article states he is 26 years old. Something isn’t right there.

      2. avatar GS650G says:

        He’ll need to switch hands now.

    3. avatar jgpLOL says:

      The rioter who had the gun and got his arm shot off was also a felon in possesion of a firearm

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        They stitched up his arm nicely. That’s what I expected because it was mostly the skin that made the wound took very bad. I saw a man take a round from a PKM to his bicep region, everyone knew that arm couldn’t be saved, the Marine is going home for good.

        1. avatar Ing says:

          He still lost a good pound of flesh. That’s an ugly wound no matter how well it got sewn up.

      2. avatar Chief Censor says:

        https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgdH1SfU0AEbF5n?format=jpg&name=large

        He looks happy. Hopefully, justice is served by him being charged with attempted murder.

        1. avatar Dude says:

          Then he’ll be someone else’s boy.

    4. avatar Paul says:

      Well, we might excuse the lack of an arrest, in view of the fact he is in the hospital, undergoing surgery. Not many doctors do surgery inside of jail or prison walls. I expect that he will be answering charges when he is healthy enough to stand up, and piss on his own. Until then, he ain’t goin’ nowhere.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        I can accomplish the surgery he needs in 2 minutes with a meat cleaver, then he can report to prison. Nobody has even suggested he will be held accountable, I don’t believe he will.

  12. avatar RGP says:

    Any prosecutor who filed those charges works for Antifa & BLM.

  13. avatar JIm JOnes says:

    OMG…it’s not that they are just overcharging….it looks like pure incompetence in the DA’s office.

    Read the complaint here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m9sDjYr1Nj_fpFr9bTycWPG8tS2aPDeL/view

    The DA attorney lays out the charges and then basically describes a situation which we all see on video. She clearly states that RIttenhouse is running away…trying to get away….his chaser catches up with him and attempts to grab his gun then gets shot. She then goes on to AGAIN describe Rittenhouse running down the street….being hit in the hit…people screaming “GET HIM”…tripping….being hit by the gun with the skateboard…his gun again trying to be taken away from him…and one of his attackers being armed with a handgun.

    WTF? This a CHARGING document by a prosecutor? Is she just out of law school? This looks like something a defense attorney would put out proving self defense!

    1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

      holy *&^[email protected]%#

      The prosecution has done themselves zero favors..none.

      Good luck with that. I’m betting some pretty good defense attorneys are drooling to do this pro bono.

      1. avatar The Huscarl says:

        Sandmann’s people have assembled a team and are already all over this.

        1. avatar Chief Censor says:

          I hope he sues every liar saying he murdered people and he was looking to kill protesters. Antifa was looking to kill him. There was multiple gunmen trying to take out Kyle, they fired first. After Kyle shot the 36 year old he ran when the Antifa gunmen start walking up to him.

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          He has the right attorney! Guy won something like 200 mil for Sandman, has volunteered his services.

        3. avatar tommy2fer says:

          Uh…”volunteered” his services??? Yeah, nothing up front……..hence, the “pro bono” connotation….then, 30-40% plus costs on the back end for a win. But, that is great for the kid. Hope he wins. Looks good for kid or the attorney wouldn’t have jumped in “pro bono.”

      2. avatar Manse Jolly says:

        https://hotair.com/archives/john-s-2/2020/08/27/details-revealed-state-vs-kyle-rittenhouse-criminal-complaint/

        “….Dr. Kelley of the Milwaukee Medical Examiner’s Office conducted an autopsy on Joseph Rosenbaum. Dr. Kelley indicated that Rosenbaum had a gunshot wound to the right groin which fractured his pelvis, a gunshot wound to the back which perforated his right lung and liver, a gunshot wound to the left hand, a superficial gunshot wound to his lateral left thigh, and a graze gunshot wound to the right side of his forehead…..”

        Huber was shot once and the bullet perforated his heart and aorta.

    2. avatar strych9 says:

      Wow. Good catch.

    3. avatar anonymous coward says:

      Perhaps the DA did not really believe the charges herself/himself, but politically had to file something.

    4. avatar DaveL says:

      He wouldn’t be the first prosecutor to announce charges to appease the mob, then put together an absolute dog’s-breakfast case.

    5. avatar Paul says:

      There’s a lot of speculation as to the DA’s motives. It’s possible that the DA doesn’t want the kid to be convicted of anything. Not something I would count on, but it’s a possibility. It’s political, and we have no idea what the DA’s politics are. Set the kid up so he can easily beat all charges, but CYA so you don’t lose your job?

  14. avatar cgray says:

    Plus, he got pinched for illegal use of a firearm, something that just yesterday I was ridiculed for for saying would occur.

    Sweet, sweet redemption.

    Suck it, Trumpgoobers. Your Hitler Youth hero is going away for a a long time.

    1. avatar Gen McChrystal says:

      Pick and eat some more delicious boogers, you’ll feel better in the morning.

    2. avatar GS650G says:

      He’ll walk.
      Notice how quiet it is tonight?

      No thanks to cops.

    3. avatar Electricboogaloo says:

      Didn’t you read? Two Hitler youth/ brown shirts are dead and one has a hole in his arm. I don’t think any of the national socialist workers party members are in jail. They jailed the patriot that was defending his own life. Pretty funny that a 17yo patriot took out 3 socialists though. Imagine what a full grown patriot can do to the nsdap if pressed. Was that a hammer and sickle or was is a shovel and pick for digging the comrade graves?

    4. avatar Zhang says:

      Go screw yourself, you commie fascist pig.

  15. avatar Dude says:

    “The Justice Department also announced that the U.S. attorney’s office and FBI would conduct a civil rights investigation into the shooting of Blake, in cooperation with Wisconsin state law enforcement agencies.”

    Serious question, what evidence is there of this having to do with race? If they just wanted to shoot a black man, then why did they try to restrain him and then tase him first? Is the standard merely white guy with gun, black guy with bullet holes? If that’s the standard, then have they opened a civil rights investigation into the shooting of that five year old white kid by a black guy? Did that black guy try his best to restrain the kid first? Are we going to keep pretending that the whole civil rights / racism thing is a one way street?

    1. avatar Ing says:

      Why, yes. Yes, we are.

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Sixty odd years ago my parents had “the talk” with me and my brother. “If cop says you are under arrest, say nothing further and cooperate completely. If you try to escape he will shoot you.” Left me with no questions about this shooting video.

  16. avatar The Huscarl says:

    This is the cleanest case of self-defense I’ve ever seen and I’ve been reading such stories for years. If this isn’t self-defense, the the concept no longer exists.

    1. avatar RGP says:

      “If this isn’t self-defense, the the concept no longer exists.”

      That may be the goal of the prosecution, and they’ll have no problem finding a dozen people who are too stupid to get out of jury duty.

    2. avatar Ed schrade says:

      The Marxist dem party and much of law enforcement does not like citizens use of self defense. Not all law enforcement.

  17. avatar Truckman says:

    this could be the straw that breaks the camels back as the old saying goes first there was the little 6-year old that was shot in the head by a black man and the media said nothing about it and now a white boy shoots somebody in self-defense and gets charged with murder Its time for everybody to put a stop to this racist crap before it goes any further it is time for these people quit blaming the cops for the actions that force people to get killed when you are being arrested don’t fight just go along to jail and call a lawyer as any law-abiding citizen does

  18. avatar MB (the real MB) says:

    He committed a misdemeanor ( minor in possession of firearm ) but he was attacked by adults, all committing felonies, including felon in possession of a firearm, and assault with a deadly weapon ( a skateboard ) and a registered sex offender. Looks like self defense plain and simple. Everyone involved acted stupidly, including the police, who didn’t end this before it started.

    1. avatar DonS says:

      “He committed a misdemeanor ( minor in possession of firearm )”

      That’s in the complaint (alleged violation of section 948.60(2)(a)), but…

      That section doesn’t seem to apply. In paragraph (3)(c), it expressly states that it only applies to persons under 18 who are in possession of a rifle or shotgun IF the person is in violation of 941.28 (short-barreled rifle or shotgun) or is not in compliance with a couple of hunting statutes.

      Maybe his rifle has a barrel less than 16″ or its overall length is less than 26″? Though, if that was the case, I would’ve expected to see another (much more serious) charge in the complaint – violation of 941.28 (a felony).
      https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/948/60

  19. avatar Dude says:

    It wasn’t even that dude was trying to kick him and attack him with a skateboard. That was occurring in the context of a mob descending on him.

  20. avatar Dude says:

    “State agents later recovered a knife from the floor on the driver’s side of the vehicle, the department said.”

    Remember the photo of him holding what looked like a knife? Do you think he drew the knife with bad intentions during the struggle, then thought better of it? Maybe he thought he was going to casually get rid of the weapon before he got arrested?

  21. avatar Mostly Peaceful Counter Protester says:

    I believe things will probably get worse before they get better. Hopefully I’m wrong.

    1. avatar The Huscarl says:

      With the way 2020 is going, it’ll get worse before it gets worse.

      1. avatar Paul says:

        The only thing that prevents me saying “Damn you for being right” is that we don’t know each other. Oh hell – damn you for being right. Now we know each other. ;^)

        1. avatar jwm says:

          The Gospel of Paul.

  22. avatar GS650G says:

    Hopefully he will get better lawyers. Surely someone can do a pro bono for this kid.

    1. avatar DrewR55 says:

      He has a better lawyer. According to the article he has a public attorney in Illinois but he is also being represented by Lin Wood. Lin is the guy who represented Richard Jewell.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Lin_Wood

  23. avatar Jimbo says:

    This is pathetic anyone who watched the videos saw what happened… just like the shooting of the “innocent” man that was about to get behind the wheel of a deadly weapon… but we live in upside down world now… 1984 is what this is coming to.. “assault weapons” “peaceful protesters” “victims” this is ridiculous we need to clean house tar and feather those who hate America… the media is the greatest threat to America in a long time…

  24. avatar Chief Censor says:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/us/kyle-rittenhouse-kenosha-shooting-video.html

    The NYTimes says Kyle was shot at by two people before he shot the 36 year old white male. He was shot at numerous times while he was in the parking lot. He rant away as the gunman close in on him. A third gunman, the man shot in the arm, chases Kyle with a Glock with the intention of shooting him dead. Two more people start shooting at Kyle once he gets back up and walks to the police. There was at least 16 rounds fired.

    So how is it not self defense when people committing felonies start shooting at you because you are trying to stop them from committing those crimes? How is it not self defense when a man puts a gun to your head and has said he wanted to mag dump his Glock into the child? How is it not self defense when other gunman start mag dumping at you when you are walking to the cops?

    Kenosha PD, DA, mayor and sheriff office are all corrupt bastards. No wonder the militia guys weren’t on their side and said the protesters should burn down the police department instead.

    1. avatar Dude says:

      “So how is it not self defense?”

      Some animals are more equal than others. It helps to have the “correct” opinions.

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        I heard Kyle was booked as a Hispanic male. So white men attacked a “person of color.”

        I counted at least 15 rounds fired at Kyle by at least 3 different people.

        1. avatar Paul says:

          Hispanic male. Hmmmm. I’ve watched every bit of video I’ve been able to find. Kyle is clearly exhausted in much of the video, but he moves very much like a couple of my Mexican buddies. Interesting detail, if true. Of course, that detail is irrelevant to the events that have happened.

    2. avatar The Huscarl says:

      Those who are favored by the powers that be will get the benefit of the doubt. Everyone else? They can burn in Hell.

    3. avatar NJ2AZ says:

      good lord the comments on that article are hard to read.

      “Vigilantism is mob rule”…said un-ironically as far as i can tell

  25. avatar Mike Carbine says:

    Like I posted 6 hours before this happened, hard to have a fair trial in a Blue city, Blue State. After you have crossed state lines to seek trouble, it is hard to say other wise, nor did he have property or family there.
    Look you and I know the kid was defending himself from criminals who wanted to stomp him into a stain. Now the forces of the left will move Heaven and Earth to make an example of him, to the rest of us. “Do not to resist your Destruction”. Never Democrats.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Somebody may wish to check with CNN and the Washington Post first, that attitude just cost them a couple hundred million.

  26. avatar J says:

    They wanted to stomp him like they did to the guy helping the person in Portland, OR last week on Aug. 16th or 17th. Does anyone know if there is a defense fund to support this kid yet.

    1. avatar The Huscarl says:

      Defense fund won’t be necessary. Some powerful lawyers have decided to go pro bono on it. Which is great for all of us. If this isn’t self-defense, then nothing is, and it’s boogaloo time.

      1. avatar J says:

        Boogaloo? Is that some type of 1970s Disco. It will take more than this to get most people out of the house to do something about what is happening. You have to have something you are not willing to loose to do something drastic enough to take action. The last straw for anyone or a group of like minded people could be anything these days. Where is the line in the sand for us 2nd Amendment people? Are we the quite majority today? Back in the 1960s and 1970s they talked about the quite majority will rise up and never happened, but the Democratic commie socialist marxist still we are to maintain control of Congress and the White House during that time period. November 3rd is getting close. Let us see if we can hold off the Democrats and take back the House after the summer of unrest.
        No one is talking about the medical examiner’s report from the autopsy toxicology report with the high amounts of fentanyl, methamphetamine, and cannabinoids in George Floyd’s system during the arrest. The Minneapolis Mayor and Minnesota Governor let things get out of control earlier this summer. The Minneapolis Mayor, Minnesota Governor, and State Attorney did not or want to the release of body cam videos from the officers for the public to be informed about what really happened that day and not just someones phone video that started this all. At least in Wisconsin, an independent investigation is actually happening, not like in Minnesota.

  27. avatar Matt in Oklahoma says:

    Y’all need to get carry insurance in case you get into this situation

  28. avatar FormerParatrooper says:

    He had to be charged otherwise the rioters would have another excuse. The DA has to know with the available evidence and a fair trial, he should be exonerated. They may want him to plead to a lesser charge for something minor.

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      This is malicious prosecution. The DA should be arrested and everyone that called Kyle a murderer should be sued.

      All the evidence to show he was being shot at before he shot a man attempting to take his gun was out there immediately due to lives streams. I was already aware it was self defense by simply watching the live stream when it happened. The entire situation was caught on video from the very beginning to the end. Three gunman were caught on video going after Kyle.

      The friend of the man shot in the arm claimed his buddy regretted hesitating and would have mag dumped into the kid. By the way, he was patched up almost like nothing happened to his arm, 5.56 not so great.

      1. avatar Mark says:

        5.56 mm not so great eh? Many dead people would disagree. Obviously if you get hit in the arm you are going to live. I seriously doubt his arm will be functional as it was before.

        1. avatar Chief Censor says:

          There isn’t enough mass to do the damage necessary to make things definitive with 5.56. You have to hit a guy numerous times to make sure he can’t shoot back.

          The first attacker had to be shot 4 times point blank to drop him and one of those hit his head. He didn’t die for an hour and he was trying to get up for a few seconds after being shot. I wonder if he didn’t get hit in the head if he could have been able to actually do something until the other 3 bullets killed him.

          I don’t think the bullet made it out of skateboard guy although he was hit point blank in the chest. Sounds like it got stuck in his right lung after passing through the heart. Obviously the heart didn’t explode, seeing the guy was able to run and clench his chest while on the ground as he was losing blood pressure then passed out.

          I would rather have a heavier round if attacked by a mob. I don’t want to spend 4-9 rounds on one person while I am being swarmed.

      2. avatar Ing says:

        If he hadn’t hesitated, he would’ve been cold on a slab right now (and the world would’ve been a better place). The kid had him dead to rights.

        1. avatar Chief Censor says:

          Well the skateboarder was hit in the heart, aorta, pulmonary artery, and right lung. He was still capable of firing a gun for a little while if he had one. He passed out and eventually died. He would have needed to be hit a few more times to shut him off if he had a gun.

          I am more used to seeing guys drop instantly and not move.

          The t-shirt head man had a gunshot wound to the right groin which fractured his pelvis, a gunshot wound to the back which perforated his right lung and liver, a gunshot wound to the left hand, a superficial gunshot wound to his lateral left thigh, and a graze gunshot wound to the right side of his forehead. Far as I could tell, he was shot 4 times point blank. He died an hour later.

      3. avatar Jim Bob says:

        I agree 100% on the malicious prosecution. AG is trying to placate the mob (and media) and also probably hoping for a plea deal. I hope Rittenhouse pleads not guilty and requests a jury trial – and then sues Wisconsin after he’s found not guilty.

      4. avatar possum says:

        The. 222 Magnum( and that’s what a 5.56 is) was designed to shoot targets, prairie dogs, woodchucks and coyotes. The 30-30 was designed to kill targets, prairie dogs, woodchucks, coyotes, deer, elk, moose, sheep, hogs, buffaloes,bears and bad guys. So gimme that varmint cartridge please, the propagandist say I shouldn’t have one so they must be bad medicine.

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      He’s not black, nobody he shot was black, nobody is going to riot over the losers he sent away.

  29. avatar gus says:

    “gunman” this, “gunman” that, it’s always gunman, gunman, gunman. women are under-represented and we need more gunWOMEN. they can get tax credits, reduced tuition at VoTech, and Equal Opportunity.

    heck with the lack of women gunmen right now, a female mugger can practically write her own paycheck.

    of course to avoid discrimination we must also include the LGBTQ-wtfbbq community: gun-lezzies, gun-homos, gun-queers, gun-transsexuals and so on until we run out of pronouns and just refer to criminals with guns as gunpeople or gunthings.

    “Kenosha police faced questions about their interactions with the gunperson on Tuesday night. According to witness accounts and video footage, police apparently let the gunperson walk past them and leave the scene with a rifle over its shoulder and its hands in the air, as members of the crowd yelled for it to be arrested because it had shot people.”

    doesn’t that sound better?

    1. avatar Paul says:

      I can’t keep up with all that lgbtqurstpoiclkchaadklbqueer stuff. I just abbreviate it. Lickbutts works.

  30. avatar JohnnyL says:

    The 3 people who were shot (2 killed) all had had criminal records.

    BALD GUY: Joseph D. Rosenbaum, 36, was the first one killed. Video allegedly shows him chasing the teen shooter & throwing a Molotov cocktail at him. Rosenbaum was a registered sex offender for a sex crime involving a minor and registered for life as a sex offender. (Source Wisconsin Department of Correction Sex Offender Registry)

    SKATER: Anthony Huber, 26, was the 2nd shot & killed. He was filmed chasing down the armed teen and hitting him when he was on the ground with a skateboard. He has a criminal history that includes charges of battery & repeat domestic abuse

    I AM NO LONGER RIGHT-HANDED: Gaige Grosskreutz 26 was the third who was shot (& survived) He’s a member of the People’s Revolution Movement. He was filmed chasing after the teen w/a pistol. He was shot at close-range in the upper arm. He has a criminal record that includes being intoxicated & armed w/a gun. He was also a convicted felon for a felony burglary at 19 years old. So that would make him a prohibited person. If your curious you can go to his Facebook page where seen painting a big “DEFUND THE POLICE” on city street.

    You can see in this video the BALD GUY was the most aggressive when he encounters the armed militia at the gas station. The SKATER guy was also there next to the BALD GUY arguing with them as well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=68&v=ZlUcPJSxS1M&feature=emb_logo

    All of them were a bunch of losers they are not martyrs and they are not innocent victims who were killed by a so-called white supremacist. They all went out that night to cause mayhem and violence towards others and as far as I’m concerned, they got what they deserved.

    1. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

      The people’s revolutionary movement?

      H’mm. Let’s see… Found it!

      https://thepeoplesrevolution.org/

      “Core Principles

      The People’s Revolution is an organization founded on the following core principles:

      Trust
      Respect
      Unity of purpose
      Intersectionality
      Non-violence

      (other such prattle)”

      Non-violence, eh?

      That boy’s got some ‘splaining to do about that Glock in his hand, and being on record stating he regretted not killing him.

      Unless that ‘movement’ is full of hypocrites… 😉

    2. avatar Zhang says:

      “they got what they deserved.”

      Not Grosskreutz. That commie fascist pig is still alive, unfortunately.

    3. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Since all involved were white, where did white supremacy come in? And where did the first loser get the idea to screech “shoot me, niggah” at the kid insanely and repeatedly? They were all white, and most seemed to be deranged/on drugs/massively confused. I’m sure there were some, but I did not notice ANY black people in any of the videos, thinkin’ they had enough sense to stay home.

  31. avatar JimmyCrackCorn says:

    Free Kyle!!

  32. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    Just received this from GOA, notice it’s not from Negotiating Rights Away.

    GOA comes to Kyle Rittenhouse’s defense

    GOA: Media Demonizes Apparent Self-Defender Kyle Rittenhouse

    Springfield, VA – Gun Owners of America (GOA) Senior Vice President Erich Pratt released the following statement on Kyle Rittenhouse’s citizen-involved shooting:

    “Based upon publicly available video evidence, it appears that Kyle Rittenhouse was acting in self-defense. And despite fake news media reports, it is clear that Kyle was not firing indiscriminately into a crowd.
    “GOA has reached out to Rittenhouse’s attorneys and the Lake County Public Defender’s office, and we have our own attorneys and use of force experts looking into this case, too. In the meantime, we demand fair treatment from the media, because up till now, their coverage has been horrific. With no evidence, they have labeled Kyle as a racist and a vigilante, but that just indicates how the media elites view all gun owners.
    “More to the point, the media has given more favorable coverage to rioters and looters over the past several months than to gun owners who appear to be protecting their lives from violent attackers. The media excuses the violent torching of American cities as ‘mostly peaceful’ protests. And they now minimize the hatefulness of Kyle’s attackers, calling them mere ‘protesters.’
    “But if Leftists want to question why Kyle Rittenhouse was in Kenosha, then they should begin by asking that question to the ‘protesters’ who have criminal records and who have come from out of town to terrorize business owners.
    “The bottom line is this: every human being has a God-given right to protect themselves. And when a person’s life is under attack, the Constitution protects their ability to use firearms without ‘infringement’ in the defense of that life.”

    https://gunowners.org/goa-media-demonizes-apparent-self-defender-kyle-rittenhouse/

  33. avatar Jaque says:

    The kid has the best legal team in the US. Somebody has money, or maybe its pro bono. He will win if Trump is re-elected. But the Biden communists will bury him if they steal the presidency. The lesson here is never reveal your face or fingerprints. And trust no one with your plans. Not even the wife. This kids gave interviews to the press. WTF ?

    Whatever, this event will repeat itself should our cities and neighborhoods come under attack by the communists. And they will. The ammo situation is dire. Lead times for 5.56 is into next year for M193. 12 ga slugs unobtanium. Defensive pistol ammo unobtanium. Some pistol ball calibers may be had. .22 LR is better than nothing if you have a rifle for it. .30 carbine is available if you have an M1 Carbine. Crossbows are a fallback. But factory bolts are costly. Those with a lathe can make em.
    Chemicals to make smoke devices can be had at Homedepot and Wallmart. Sugar is one chemical used. The internet is your friend for making them. Smoke will come in handy in some situations. Dry chem fire extinguishers are useful if pepper spray is unobtanium.

    Check your defensive gun use legal plans if you have one to see if it covers terrorism or marshal law conditions, which the government is likely to declare if the insurgency spreads. But that matters little if your being overun by arsonists. We will be on our own, like the good folks in Kenosha.

    1. avatar Not Larry from Texas says:

      Fair amount of 7.62x39mm still around, makes me wish I didn’t sell my WASR-10 a while back fund a gen 5 glock 17 purchase.

    2. avatar Mark says:

      Ammo is still out there but you have to be FAST and have MONEY because it is almost twice as expensive now.

    3. avatar Cooter E Lee says:

      Look up cut shells and wax slugs for shotguns. There is plenty of 7 and 8 bird shot out there.

      Don’t go out looking for trouble with improvised ammo though, use it to protect your home and family if you have to.

      1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

        That’s a old trick, most likely older than you and I and at least one other person but it works.

  34. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    This is the case the enemy will use to try and destroy the concept of using deadly force to defend your life. And they will try and destroy the 2nd amendment to our bill of rights. They will try and destroy the concept of open carry. Pay close attention to anyone who doesn’t defend this kid.
    And it doesn’t matter if they are Libertarian, Liberal, leftist, conservative, socialist progressive, etc.
    If they don’t support this kid. They really are the enemy of Liberty.

  35. avatar Debbie W. says:

    Obviously the prosecutor must have some anitfa relatives.
    Bottom line…The young man acted lawfully to stop a mob out to injure and kill him.

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      Debbie
      I think it’s simpler than that the prosecutor is most likely one of the Marxist recruits of the Nazzi collaborator.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Or maybe the nasty collaborator. I’m suspicious that Nasty Pelosi in in cahoots with the Nasty collaborator.

  36. avatar NJ2AZ says:

    i don’t imagine there will be riots if/when he eventually walks because the two losers he killed where white boys.

    literally every bit of video i have seen he is attempting to flee. this shouldn’t even go to trial. i hope his lawyer doesn’t take a plea.

    1. avatar possum says:

      Your calling a public defender a lawyer?

  37. avatar Hannibal says:

    Remember… prosecutors and judges have full immunity.

    They can charge you with whatever you want and overturn your life before you ever see a jury.

    There is no such provision in the Constitution. Congress and the respective states could change it tomorrow.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Are you suggesting they can plead the case out without his consent? Because I don’t think so. Repeat after me, “I want a jury trial and I want it tomorrow. A ‘speedy’ trial, right?”

  38. avatar Nanashi says:

    Nick Rekieta just went through the charging document. Just the prosecutor’s evidence alone makes the case Kyle is innocent. I can’t tell if she’s throwing the case to ensure he’s never maliciously charged, or if she’s massively incompetent.

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      Nanashi

      As you said it’s clearly one or the other in this case and never bet against incompetence.

    2. avatar Hannibal says:

      Neither, it’s politically motivated.

      There’s no penalty for failing to convict. And since a justification defense is affirmative, it’s really not even that strange to see it go to trial on what is clearly self-defense. Defense has to make the argument.

    3. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Elections are coming up.

    4. avatar LarryinTX says:

      I’m happy to give her the benefit of the doubt.

  39. avatar Mark Kelly's Diapered Drooling Ventriloquist's Dummy says:

    Time for some “ghetto “justice'” in the form of “jury nullification (vindication)” just like murderer of rabbinical student Yankel Rosenbaum, Limerick Nelson, got from his peeps.

    1. avatar Mark Kelly's Diapered Drooling Ventriloquist's Dummy says:

      #FreeKyleRittenhouse the political prisoner, held and scheduled to be persecuted and crucified by Democrats that’s IF he even makes it to trial, odds are the Dems will engineer his demise in lock-up rather than allow themselves to be embarrassed by the inevitable acquittal on all charges

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        “odds are the Dems will engineer his demise in lock-up”

        Drooler, would you like to put your money where your mouth is and engage in a small wager about your claim?

        I will gladly way to you a fifth of Woodford reserve the cow will not be killed in lock up, will you put your money where your mouth is?

  40. avatar possum says:

    was assigned a public defender . I’m totally outraged on the charges, he should also be charged with discharging a firearm in city limits, our court system has gone to hell.

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      If the shots fired in city limits in self defense then no call /charge and in this case that is evident.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Nah, at least a couple of the 4 times he shot the first loser were unnecessary, make him PAY!! I’d say a $20 fine would be about right.

  41. avatar Manse Jolly says:

    …and naturally the attempt to turn skateboard guy into a hero.

    ..no..not a hero. A stupid 26 year old who should have been mature enough to know better. His alleged (?) girlfriend who is obviously not mentally an adult. No, he didn’t take a villain down with a skateboard, he didn’t do anything except bleed out and waste the life he had.

    hope link works..
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1298950950099529728

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      Given his repeated arrests for domestic violence I have a feeling this whole thing is going to be memory holed.

    2. avatar Dude says:

      His girlfriend already has $130k on gofundme.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Feel free to toss away your money however you like. None of that is mine.

  42. avatar Chris Morton says:

    Sounds more like he’s being PERSECUTED for “counterrevolutionary activity”.

    I’m surprised they didn’t charge him with “wrecking the grain harvest” and “being a Polish spy”.

    1. Certainly more evidence than there is that Trump sent “stormtroopers” to Portland to suppress peaceful oritests, as Nancy Pelosi claimed.

  43. avatar Steve says:

    Looks like the GOA will handle it from now on

  44. avatar Jogger says:

    The medic glock guy that got his arm blown off is a convicted felon, yet no charges for him even with video evidence of him carrying a gun

  45. avatar Ald says:

    Do you believe that these prosecutors don’t know that they are over-charging? Do you believe that they are that ignorant of their own job? That they haven’t prosecuted and seen the results of hundreds and thousands of cases in their careers?

    Assumption of intellectual deficiency of an opposing competitor seems like a poor plan.

    Is there any motivating reason behind their actions other than to cause violent revolution?

  46. avatar C.S. says:

    I’m going to point out the obvious that one can’t have BLM fiery protests without the tacit support for Democrat mayors and governors, for exactly reasons like this.

    It’s so much easier to just go to the voting booth and drop a straight “R” ticket, and deal with the corrupt onesie-twosies afterwards.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      TX doesn’t have straight tickets, starting with this election. Damn good idea, if you ask me. Also, candidates are not listed with party affiliation. If you wish to simply vote a party, you will need to enter the booth with a list of your preferred candidates, by name.

  47. avatar Ark says:

    The felons and child molesters of the lynch mob, or the kid who scrubs graffiti and tries to stop the neighborhood from burning down? Pick your side.

  48. avatar WI Patriot says:

    After all the eye witness accounts are in, after all the video is reviewed, he’ll be exonerated…saddest part, even though it was self-defense, at 17, he’ll have to live with this for a very long time…you never forget their faces…

  49. avatar Tacoma236 says:

    REALLY????

    Ok here is a different angle, the DA knows someone will indict this kid. SO he gets ahead of the parade, indicts on multiple charges, release on bail.

    Hold on the resolution until the attention fades.

    Junior gets an attorney, the DA accepts a plea bargain for say, Class C misdemeanor” for disorderly conduct. Fines say $50 and $50 in restitution (cleaning up the brass), no time, maybe a “shooter safety course”.

    Then Kyle is protected from further prosecution. The case goes away….

    1. avatar WI Patriot says:

      It just may go down that way, but sadly, he’s NOT immune to a civil suit for “wrongful” death…if you recall the OJ saga(innocent or guilty I care not), he was acquitted, and still lost the civil suit(wrongful death) to the tune of $25 million, so…

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Absolutely not. He did nothing wrong, feel free to TRY him for whatever, jury trial thank you. Remember the BS Flynn is going through now, asshole judge wants him prosecuted for pleading guilty when he was not.

  50. avatar Mainer_ExCop says:

    What was a 17 year old from Illinois doing there with an AR-15?

    1. avatar WI Patriot says:

      Not prohibited…the better question is why were convicted felons there with guns…???

    2. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      What ever he felt like, perhaps he was just out yondering.

    3. avatar LarryinTX says:

      He was something like 5 miles from his home.

  51. avatar Bemused Berserker says:

    I’m neither condemning nor condoning his actions. Nothing wrong with attempting to protect your property or life, but How you perform that attempt is equally important. All the details surrounding this incident aren’t known, and there’s a huge amount of speculation, opinions and misinformation floating around. I’m not a lawyer, but the circumstances seem very complicated. Why was a non resident and underage young man present? Did the Militia, and thus this kid have the property/business owner’s permission and/or request for protection to guard the property, or did they just show up? Those are just a couple of the many questions I have, but they need answers. The group I’m a member of, has a minimum age requirement (21 as being a lawful CC holder is a requirement as well). We also require written request/permission from the owner before we’ll provide protection.
    As we’re witnessing, there’s a fine line between Militia Protection and the Perception of Vigilantism. I have nothing but sympathy for this young man, as his life will be forever changed by this, regardless of legal fight he faces.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      BB, young man has every right to go wherever he likes, he does not have to join your group. I was running around the country on my own at 15, drove through about 8 different states before I turned 16, nothing says he can’t. And he was near within a stone’s throw of his home.

  52. I hope kyle gets a speedy trial and a speedy aquital.

  53. avatar Ben willard says:

    This is absolutely out of F ing control! It’s already too expensive to prove your innocence in court and despite all the evidence showing Kyle was clearly defending his life, he is still being dragged across the coals (as George Soros wrings his old, wrinkly, greedy, diabolical hands and smiles).

    I couldn’t help but notice the ridiculous mention of sports teams boycotting their games. As if anyone cares first of all. And secondly, is this the first time someone was killed? Is this the first time there was a riot? Is this a first time for racially motivated protests? NO to all!!!! Where were these grossly overpaid, fawned over, pussies 30 – 40 years ago????. Oh yeah, the left didn’t think to manufacture a large scale fake crisis then. My fault.

  54. avatar Curmudgeon says:

    I know there’s a lot of politics and social commentary here, but I’d like to just say “nice shot man”. That was actually pretty decent shooting on his part.

    And yes, it was self defense.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Yeah, makes me respect my single point sling even more. It had not struck me that when somebody tries to pull the rifle out of your hands, it automatically points the gun straight at his chest, all you have to do is pull the trigger, even if dazed by a skateboard strike.

  55. avatar Home Team Crowd says:

    Jacob Blake has 6 kids. Just asking for a friend… Is he married? Are the kids all with one woman? If not, how many baby mamas? And is he current on his child support?

    1. avatar Lisa says:

      So he deserved to be SHOT in the back? Seven times. Check yourself, your racism is showing.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Don’t care what race he is, the answer is YES! The poster did not mention race, you did. That makes YOU a racist.

  56. avatar StLPro2A says:

    What is the age in Illinois to have an AR-15 and FOID card to enable such possession? Thought it to be 18 yo. Isnage going to be an issue for the kid? Age issue in Wisconsin??

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Not sure, except 2A doesn’t mention it.

    2. avatar Lu says:

      Yes it’s a big problem. 17 year old kids aren’t allowed to have long guns. He’s gone for 60 years or so. It’s a shame that trump invites all these people into doing really stupid things. Like the guy from Florida that mailed pipe bombs to trump’s perceived enemies or the guy that went to shoot up the Pizza Parlor. In religion your Savior dies for you & in a cult you die for your savior. Cult 45 welcome to Trumpland and all it’s chaos~brought to you by the grifter-in-Chief ! 183,000 people killed and counting.

      1. avatar anonymous4goodreason says:

        “17 year old kids aren’t allowed to have guns”
        Not so, they are not allowed to buy or sell guns but there is no law against possession. Nor is there an age limit specified in the 2nd amendment.

  57. avatar adverse6 says:

    An example must be made. Socialist driven domestic terrorists are not to be interfered with.

    1. avatar Li says:

      Don’t we pool all our money together to pay for president, Congress, our local police, firemen, EMTs, City & County Commissioners, School, infrastructures, SS, and on and on ? All that is s Socialism ! I don’t have children in school and rarely drive but I pay for other people’s children to go.
      Qnon was declared a Domestic Terrorist a Organization by the FBI but trump likes them~becoz they like him. ANTIFA isn’t an organization. Just progressive Christians against Fascism. Since when is that a bad thing ?

      1. avatar anonymous4goodreason says:

        @Li
        You seem very confused (too much CNN maybe?). Let me see if I can clarify some of these for you.

        “All that is Socialism!”
        Actually, no, it isn’t. Please read what socialism is and you will, hopefully, be able to discern the difference between public services and public owned and operated business.

        “Qnon was declared a Domestic Terrorist a Organization”
        No, it wasn’t. There is no such thing as a “Domestic Terrorist Organization” hence ANTIFA is not so labeled.

        “Just progressive Christians against Fascism. Since when is that a bad thing?”
        No one is opposed to opposing fascism except where fascist techniques are applied during the opposition. You seem to believe that conservatives are fascists? We’re not but we do believe in law an order and the right of each person to choose his or her own path in this life.

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