new zealand shooting massacre semi-automatic ban
In this photo released by New Zealand Prime Minister's Office, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern speaks to representatives of the Muslim community, Saturday, March 16, 2019 at the Canterbury Refugee Centre in Christchurch, New Zealand, a day after the mass shootings at two mosques in the city. (New Zealand Prime Minister Office via AP)
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The crowd in attendance at a vigil at Auckland’s Aotea Square cheered loudly when Attorney-General David Parker said the Government would ban semi-automatic rifles.

He warned of a global rise of extremism.

“There is a dimming of enlightenment in many parts of the world,” he said.

“How can it be right for this atrocity to be filmed by the murderer using a go-pro and live-streamed across the world by social media companies?

“How can that be right? Who should be held accountable for that?”

The answer is obvious: New Zealand’s law-abiding gun owners. They’re the ones who will pay for a crazed killer’s murder spree by giving up a piece of their gun rights and their property.

New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern vowed she’d crack down on gun rights.

And with the Attorney General’s pronouncement, Ardern moved swiftly to make good on that promise.

Speaking to media in Wellington this morning, Ardern stressed that “now was the time for change.”

Ardern said five guns were used by the primary perpetrator, including two semi-automatic weapons, and two shotguns.

“The offender was in possession of a gun licence,” Ardern said.

American civilian disarmament activists are cheering the New Zealand government’s swift reaction.

All is proceeding just as the shooter had planned.

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    • We should care because it encourages our elected officials to do the same. Especially since the media is pushing the “extremist” narrative. Our spineless politicians know they will be associated with that by the press if they don’t go along.

        • Obviously the New Zealand politicians understand the concept of “Never let a crisis to go waste”.

          Politicians love taking advantage tragedy to fuck over their constituents.

        • actually a little surprised he was able to acquire this much weaponry in this liberal nirvana

      • Exactly. If you don’t think that American politicians are not looking at this closely, your wrong.

      • To Tom T:
        Exactly. Some folks that rebutted in the previous TTAG article earlier today, called out in advance that this knee-jerk reaction would occur. And of course, all the gun grabbing libtards Stateside will capitalize on this.
        They’ll use this tragedy as an international tool of emotion to further their agenda to eventually ban ALL guns in the US and turn the 2A on its head.
        NZ will ban semi-autos first, and do a mass confiscation like Australia did years ago. We all know it was not the correct solution, but their people don’t have a Constitutional protection. NZ will follow suit and beyond.
        The extreme left here, in the US, is pulling out all the stops to galvanize ignorant sheeple and further polarize this politically charged issue.
        As manaical this S.O.B. psychopath is in NZ, he was clever in his strategy, causing further collateral damage politically.
        Darn right we better care about NZ. They’re in the spotlight now, and moving like a whirlwind. The pendulum is going to swing and the things are going to get darn right silly over here.

        • As manaical this S.O.B. psychopath is in NZ, he was clever in his strategy, causing further collateral damage politically.

          The evidence is the insane mass killers are moderately intelligent and obsessively plan in order to get most media coverage. The manifesto should be thought of as not so much a actual political message, but red meat thrown at a press that will give more coverage because of it.

        • From what I’ve seen, those (adult) shooters are not stupid. Sometimes there’s a thin line between genius and crazy/stupid. The politicians are doing what he wanted, like a knee jerk. I wonder if the uber rich will still be retiring in uber safe NZ.

        • ” I wonder if the uber rich will still be retiring in uber safe NZ.”

          Yes, they will, Victoria, and more importantly, they *are*.

          NZ is an ultimate survivalist retreat, since they don’t offend anyone (much) and have banned nuclear weapons. And the uber rich aren’t very comfortable with the peons having guns…

      • Violate the restrict the rights of the lawful citizens because of the actions of the wicked. If so called lawmakers make these laws and the wicked continue to violate them, then the lawmakers should be held accountable because the wicked violated them. yeah, makes total sense to me…What a bunch dumb-a$$es

      • Giving up our rights IS NOT AN OPTION!!! If it was an assault on free speech or freedom of the press would you draw the line there. Where do you say NO to giving your rights away that a lot of our forefathers fought and died for? Nobody seams to realize that taking guns away Only disarms LAWBIDDING citizens not criminals. It is truly a terrible terrible thing that has happened but you will not get arms away from criminals and sick in the head terrorist they will always find a way to get guns. Remember guns don’t kill people do!

      • This is a global move. The warning of “global extremism” is the rally point to trigger the ban across the globe. With the concept of never let a tragedy go to waste, yes, someone here will make a concerted move to do the same. We need to be afraid, be very afraid. This is all part of the UN Agenda 21, 2030, etc The “Green New Deal” talking points are all part of this. They just keep rebranding this plan to de-populate, surveillance and control through technocracy. Sustainable development and resilient cities are part of this rebrand to sound benign.

        Be afraid. We are slowly being sold out.

    • Let us face the facts. Only criminals want to take our guns away. That action would turn into a criminal Utopia. We know that criminals will always have guns. Many weapons will be imported along with gangs and drugs across the Mexican border. Why do the unhinged Democrats want us to give up our guns? The answer is simple. Armed citizens can resist there efforts to turn this country into a socialist country. The top dogs will live a life of abundance and our true patriots will be in prison. Many countries have taken this road thinking they are offering a Utopia but instead they turn into a dictatorship. You can believe the leftist Hollywooders will be armed. You can believe the people in charge will be seriously armed. You can believe we will live in a starving police state. We cannot allow this to our great country. Vote out the Rhinos. Vote out all democrats that seek destroying our country. I am a white American male and I am proud of it.

  1. Different countries…different cultures…different histories
    Good for them…if it works for them…
    but there are plenty of other ways to kill besides guns…
    and those that really want something WILL find a way to get it…legally or not…like drugs

    • You’re right, their country, their political business. It still rubs me the wrong way how this is being announced right after a mass shooting

  2. The law abiding citizens of New Zealand have to comply though. Let’s wait and see what happens, which is usually different than what is expected.

    • They’ll round up all the legal, registered ones…but you know there will be some left after that…
      and then the criminals will know they have the upper hand

      • “They’ll round up all the legal, registered ones…”

        I read *somewhere* yesterday that there is no long gun registry in NZ, unlike Australia, the article pointed out.

        So, we can probably expect what happens here. Registry first, with draconian penalties for not registering. And then wonder why the registration numbers don’t anywhere near match the importation numbers.

        But, that’s NZ, not *here*. I guess we wait and see if the people of NZ show a spine and don’t comply, by reporting lots of tragic boating accidents… 😉

  3. Someone at one or both of these mosque’s, with a concealed carry could have stopped this.

      • Mosque attack 1: 41 dead, no armed resistance
        Mosque attack 2: 7 dead, armed resistance
        Police response (in a major NZ city): 20 minutes
        The takeaway of main-stream media: Fuck Trump, Fuck the 2A!
        What? This happened in New Zealand? Yea, don’t care: Fuck Trump, Fuck the 2A!

        • If you already hated both things before the shooting then the only obvious emotional response is more hate. What’s funny is that if seems to be a very common path of thought in our brave new world.

      • If that doesn’t bolster the idea I don’t know what does. I saw the video, one man rushed the gunman and caused him to drop the rifle but he had already been hit once or twice

        • ” I saw the video, one man rushed the gunman and caused him to drop the rifle but he had already been hit once or twice”

          It needs to be impressed, frequently and *often*, that that is the only effective counter-strategy to a mass shooting. Masses need to rush the shooter. We need to make that a priority message. The first time it happens and there’s video, that will be a *powerful* message.

          We must start pushing the message to *fight back*…

      • I read that entire article… I don’t see where it describes a return fire by another gun owner?

        • Return fire is not the issue. of the one to 2.5 million crimes stopped by civilian non-LEO gun owners in the US each year, very few involve firing. The mass killers tend to be cowards and in the vast majority of cases, stop, surrender, run away or off themselves, the moment either a cop or a civilian threatens even a little with a gun. That is why they almost always choose gun free zones.

      • Dan, I know you do a really good job with this blog, but the report of armed resistance at a second mosque must simply be some sort of fake news. Watched news stations all day yesterday, there was almost no mention of a second mosque, and certainly nothing about fighting back. One would think if muuhamedans traded gunfire with a white supremie, the story would be everywhere. The fact that someone used a gun in defense should be important for people to know.

        Something just not right here.

    • If you get a chance to watch the killer’s video. He starts shooting at the second site and when one single “pop” is in his direction (at about 13:20) he hits the gas (he’s shooting from his car) and speeds away.

  4. I thought New Zealand already surrendered their guns?

    I must have been thinking about New York, or maybe New Jersey.

    • People in New York have surrendered their guns? I live in Upstate New York, no one I know has surrendered any guns. In fact, since the passage of the SAFE Act, many of the people I know who didn’t previously own guns have picked up AR-15’s (which are still legal to own here). There are far more firearms in circulation here since Cuomo went on his rant.

    • That was Australia. That Aussie prick couldn’t have pulled this stunt in his own damn country.

  5. There it is.
    A+ job of taking advantage of a crisis. No “we need to have a national conversation”, no “enough is enough!”, no hesitation. Those bastards are good. NZ gun owners need to do their best feral weasel impression politically, but I don’t know if you can stop it now

  6. Small country, small amount of guns, woop. in the US there are millions of guns out there. The liberals who try to ban and restrict them fail to understand the magnitude of their efforts. It’s impossible for them to grab those guns out there and the resistance has yet to show. The Bump stock ban has zero movable results, so lets say the thousands of them out there, in the hands of citizens. The hundreds of thousands of Ar’s, whats’ their fate?

      • True. It is forcing a cultural shift. This is why despite evidence gun ownership has risen to 55% to 60% of households, one of the core messages of gun control advocates is gun ownership is decreasing. They want to create the impression that gun ownership is outside of the norms and extreme.
        It is also why they are so focused on attacking the NRA.

        People saying “oh I will just have a boating accident” don’t get it. The vast majority of gun owners are not going to risk permanent lifetime felony charges by driving to the range with a pistol that has been made illegal. Moreover about 60% of marriages end in divorce meaning your spouse can slam dunk win custody by using an illegal possession against you. On top of it everyone has a life cycle and just by preventing new sales you gut support for gun rights. A certain number of people with shotgun and no AR or revolver instead of semi auto pistol are going to go FUD.

        These “boating accident” guys don’t even know that their homeowners or umbrella is not going to cover liability should an bodily harm accident with civil damage occur with a gun that is not legal.

        The strategy is simple:
        Raise the costs
        Raise the risks
        Raise the social stigma

        • This and the fact that uneven enforcement is a thing which gives them the wiggle room they desire in the medium term.

        • There are hundreds of millions of guns in America. There will always be hundreds of millions of guns. They can’t stop drugs from entering the country. And yes, tens of millions of Americans will always stay armed, regardless of any unconstitutional laws.

          When Sick Willy had his AR ban in the 90s there were millions of them still owned by Americans.

    • Australia is big, had lots of guns. People had to turn them in or become a criminal. Crime went up. No one wants to be an over-night felon. If knives were banned, would you turn yours in? If they threatened to take your kids away? If they took away your driver’s license? It’s easy to be brave when no one is threatening you.

    • The left think first, all Americans will obey an unconstitutional law of ban and confiscate .
      Any that don’t , the police or the military will round you up. See they all think you are nothing but low IQ losers, waiting to be ruled over by these holier than thou elitist scum.
      I don’t know what the rest of you will do, but me, I will not ever comply to illegal gun laws.
      They want you disarmed and complaint, then you cannot fight them when they really start to take control of your life.

  7. New Zealand Attorney General: “How can it be right for this atrocity to be filmed by the murderer using a go-pro and live-streamed across the world by social media companies? How can that be right? Who should be held accountable for that?”

    New Zealand Attorney General’s answer: Glock, Smith & Wesson, NZ hunters, ANZAC veterans who (somehow) kept their SMLE, Trump voters, Nigel Farage, etc…obviously! Facebook and main-stream media are the real victims here!

  8. The perpetrator could have killed just as many with his little white car, and live streamed it as well. Perhaps they should consider banning Facebook live, Go-Pro Cameras, and white automobiles?

  9. We’ll see how this plays over the coming days. In my experience Kiwis are significantly more practical than most other people in the Commonwealth.

    Maybe they’ll bother the read what the guy who did this wrote and realize they’re doing exactly what he wanted: creating more division by blaming innocent people for the actions of a lone person. Or maybe not. Forces in NZ politics have been pushing for a semiauto rifle ban on and off for at least 27 years.

    • From what I’ve observed so far, even if they do read it, most just dismiss it as crazy ranting and then proceed to react just as he anticipated because NPCs gonna NPC.

      I would expect an island nation to have an above-average rate of boating accidents…

    • I’ve followed what you and others have said over last couple of articles about ChristChruch concerning what wacko guy wrote..

      Been too busy to find a link to the ‘manifesto’, do you have one so I can read fully? only been seeing bits and pieces of it.

      I thought your analysis of it was intriguing as I did read a snippet he wrote concerning Candice Owens, trolling right there!

    • “Maybe they’ll bother the read what the guy who did this wrote and realize they’re doing exactly what he wanted: creating more division by blaming innocent people for the actions of a lone person.”

      It’s worth a shot (so to speak). If they are that practical, they can point out out how an armed worshiper shut that attack down *fast* with return fire. Houses of worship can already do this, since as you noted earlier, self-defense isn’t *expressly* authorized, but you won’t be charged if the police determine using a firearm was justified . That may be a narrow opening the N-Zedders can exploit to broaden armed self-defense. The numbers here *prove* that, licensed concealed carriers are the most lawful of citizens…

  10. 1 imperial decree and semi autos are gone? Sucks to live there. And that’s coming from a guy that lives in CA.

    • Nah. They have to get it through Parliament. What they’re doing is trying to make sure they do by laying the groundwork so MPs will vote for it.

  11. “If the Muzzies hadn’t been imported to Christchurch this never would have happened, immigrant control works better than gun control”

    • If the australian had not been allowed to immigrate ro nz there would have been no atrocity committed on the residents of nz.

      So you’re right about immigration control. Stop allowing the angry white dudes to cross borders. Problem solved.

        • …but the “troll” has a point. Maybe two or three, actually.
          Violence begets violence, unarmed people tend to become dead victims, and jihad begets a crusade. Ignoring cultural aspects of historical conflict is short-sighted and more laws will never control base human behavior now than it did in the past.

        • Truth alert. Islam is not a peaceful religion. It cannot coexist peacefully with itself, let alone Western societies.

          That said, individual Muslims may be different. (Individuals and groups are not the same thing.) Some of the kindest people I’ve known are Muslims. I trust them and would defend them even if I don’t trust their coreligionists as a whole.

          Another truth alert: If there were no Muslims in NZ, that human-shaped sack of shit would’ve found another group to hate and kill. Muslims didn’t make that guy go off the deep end. He went off because he was a murderous, inhuman psycho.

        • If you read the Muslim propaganda, Islam defines itself as a violent organization that rets on conquest and Jihad. Nothing peaceful about it.

        • Two good, enlightening websites that should be checked out by everyone: TheReligionofPeace is one and the other is JihadWatch. These are things about Islam that Westerners need to be aware of. We can ignore but at our own peril.

      • The western world has spread more wealth and prosperity than can even be imagined. Think how peaceful we would be under Sharia or some 3rd world dictator. Because Africa/ the middle East, and south America are bastions of peace love and safety. A race isn’t the problem. The problem is forcing a thriving culture to bend to the will of one that’s shown a record of death and destruction and expecting nothing bad to happen. Now the political boots will do exactly what Islam wants and they will take the means of protection from jihad away from the exact people that may need them. Maybe that’s the better direct for NZ because if the politicians wouldn’t, Islam would be forced to something about it.

        • I see somebody was thinking the same thing I was. Yeah, the liberal western style governments, media, and religious figures just cannot aid and abet the Muslims who plainly state that the want to kill and conquer us enough.

  12. Nothing more that Authoritarianism! Has nothing to do with actual crime. It allows militant big government to proclaim that any citizen (peasent) that owns a weapon (legal or otherwise) for self defense, etc…As having a “potential” to become a criminal regardless…So therefore a citizen (peasent), CAN’T be trusted…Only Big Government can trusted to have and use WEAPONS…So there is no right, so there is no need….Good luck to all law abiding New Zealanders who weapons for the common defense or whatever…I suspect your Prime minster and AG. are about to seize all YOUR property without compensation, or just make you a criminal by decree….

  13. “He did this to get us to ban guns?! We will never bow down to terrorism! And to prove how committed we are we’re going to ban guns to make sure it can never happen again!”

  14. …Still nobody mentioning the New Zealand resident who used a firearm to stop the terrorist aggressors from attacking the 2nd mosque?! Or is the NZ police authorities charging the person….?

  15. @Shaun King, That’s because New Zealand doesn’t have a constitution. NZ is under the totalitarian British royalty which the US kicked out for good reasons.

    • “They will regret this”

      They will, but it will be just fine because the regret will feel *good*. A form of religious catharsis, so to speak. Their pain will be the pain of the self-righteous.

      To that, POTG should respond “Fuck that noise”. If they want that, fine. Don’t own one.

      Don’t you *dare* tell me I can’t have a choice in *my* self defense…

  16. “New Zealand Attorney General Announces Ban on Semi-Automatic Guns”

    And just like that, no hearings, no due process, just an all out assault…NZ is just another socialist country…Perhaps the Maori will rise up a take their country back…

  17. It is not the gun! It is idiots. Banning gun stops nothing! If there is a will there is a way. UK and all places ban guns the rate does not go down. Just good people loose their protection!

  18. “Oh why oh why can’t my country do the same”

    Hey asshole… move. GTFO. But since Trump is your president and you haven’t, I guess you just want to sit and whine all day.

    ““There is a dimming of enlightenment in many parts of the world,” he said…”

    Well nothing ever created ‘enlightenment’ more than the government using violence and the threat of violence to make people do what the government wants. Basically Voltaire in a nutshell!

  19. In New Zealand, it is the firearms owner who is licensed. There is no registration of firearms. The Police have no record of the guns out there, unless they laboriously trawl through hundreds of thousands of gun shop receipts – I doubt this will happen. It might make it difficult to obtain semi autos in the future, but the ones already out there? Even if they find a way to enforce it, guaranteed there will be a sudden rash of “boating accidents”, and new flower beds in the back yard. There are no owners crazy enough to surrender their firearms to Police like they did in Australia, with the well publicised huge piles of seized weaponry. Hopefully no “cold dead hands” scenarios. But underground weapons tend to be even more destructive. This may backfire severely.

    • I hope it backfires and New Zealand goes up in flames. Not because I have anything against New Zealand; it seems like a very nice place, with a lot of great people living there, and I don’t want anyone to get hurt.

      But this kind of totalitarian crap, where the ONLY people who get punished are innocent, can’t be allowed to stand.

      Somewhere, sometime, the decent people who are threatened by crazies and criminals on the one hand, and on the other, denied the means of self-defense and blamed and punished by their own elected government for crimes they didn’t commit, have to stand up and say NO MORE.

      When your own government issues punitive demands that you give up rights and property — aiming state violence at you when you’ve done nothing wrong — well, what happens next?

      When the progbots get another turn in the majority in Washington DC (as they eventually will) and start thinking about what happened in New Zealand, what will they remember? That they got their way *again*? Or that there are some lines a government just can’t cross in a free-minded society?

      • The NZ POTG have several *powerful* arguments against blanket bans – It didn’t reduce crime rates in Oz, an armed worshiper shut the second attack down *fast*, and, as Strych adroitly noted, En-Zedders are a *practical* folk – Banning guns gives the terrorists exactly what they want.

        Any sane person knows, you don’t give a POS terrorist what they want. You will get more terrorism.

        Let’s see if practical steps up to the plate in response…

  20. That Jacinda Ardern lady looks like a damn skeleton. Actually, she looks like a desiccated mummy that’s been made up to look vaguely alive and female.

    It’s fitting. Dried-up, rotted-out bad ideas from the past, all painted to look like enlightenment, if you just don’t look too closely at it. That’s all the “progressive” left has to offer.

    • I’ve been able to listen to her talk on a regular basis (when she isn’t off her job having babies) and I have yet to notice anything like ideas or useful policy at all. Every time something difficult pops up, it gets referred to a select committee for future debate, and nothing happens in the meantime. She came to power because the Kingmaker (Winston Peters) picked her as his major power partner, because the alternative National party (which got more votes) had screwed him over in the past. Winston is the one actually in charge (as Deputy Prime Minister) – he wanted an inexperienced, ineffective Prime Minister so he could run the country. Jacinda is due to have another baby soon, so Winston will once again have his hands on the Treasury. He stays out of the limelight, so people still think Jacinda is doing her job. To call NZ a farcical banana republic would be an insult to fruit based governments the world over. Personal appearance is a personal issue, and I don’t want to add treason to the many charges I’ll probably face in the future.

      • I think it’s just the still frame in that video that does it. She looks human in other situations.

        It’s an unfortunate visual artifact, like those few choice frames of video that made Hillary Clinton look like a lunatic. (She’s a treasonous, murderous criminal, but hasn’t lost her mind no matter what a few bad still images might imply.)

        I normally wouldn’t say the things I just said, although I might think them for a fleeting moment. This stuff is just so infuriating, and there seems to be nothing any of us can do about it.

        I think I’ll back away from the internet now and take a deep breath…

        • Has hildog lost her mind? Maybe not but she has lost touch with reality. It’s semantics at that point.

      • “Personal appearance is a personal issue, and I don’t want to add treason to the many charges I’ll probably face in the future.”

        If there was ever a stark example of *why* being an America living in America is different and exceptional than living in much of the rest of the world, that is *it*.

        You have a beautiful country, Martin. One day I’d like to visit and see it in person. But I think I’ll keep living here, for all its flaws…

    • Ing,

      New Zealand’s Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Florida Senator (former Governor) Rick Scott (a.k.a. Skeletor) sure would be a fine looking couple.

      Normally I would include a photo of Rick Scott: unfortunately TTaG would then flag this comment for moderation : (

  21. That photo of Jacinda Ardern exemplifies the typical white guilt ridden SJWs of today pandering to the victim class du-jour. “Listen to this lecture on victimhood…”

  22. Welcome to the 3rd world NZ. A complete lack of respect for the rights of citizens or freedom is the beginning of the end.

  23. Looking at the reaction in the press, imagine of the lunatic left got this upset after any of the HUNDREDS of incidents of mass killing by muslims in the past two decades. Normally all they respond with are excuses and blaming the victims or blaming the U.S.A.

  24. No one needed a crystal ball to see this coming. They will pass the ban in days and widen it to nearly all firearms. The people won’t even get a say in the matter. And if anyone complains they will throw the slayings in their face and shame them. They have a moral mission now.
    Our constitution barely protects our gun rights but the real protection lies in the numbers of guns and owners. We’ll see how many numbers NZ masters up. OZ certainly came up short as did the UK.

    Confiscation depends on cooperation not muscle.

  25. And New Zealand takes one step toward totalitarianism. At the very least, it will be a people that can be easily conquered and enslaved.

  26. When someone breaks a bunch of laws to commit a crime, the obvious solution is to make more laws.

  27. Oh, the people of New Zealand are such an inspiration! We need to pass badly needed gun safety legislation here! Think of the the Jihadis and the gang bangers!

  28. “Why, why, why can’t I just live in a country where no rights are recognized and the government can punish people by fiat within 24 hours of my feelz?”

  29. By banning semi-automatic firearms, the government of New Zealand is siding with this terrorist; what does that make them?

    That should be our argument; enacting gun control is agreeing with an evil, mass murdering, radical. It is surrender to terrorism.

  30. Ha ha! My plan is WORKING!!!…Aussie murderer. It’s not like he couldn’t have run ’em over,blown ’em up,burned down a mosque or poisoned them. All that gun control sure worked in Britain,India and Aussieland😋

  31. “How can it be right for this atrocity to be filmed by the murderer using a go-pro and live-streamed across the world by social media companies?

    “How can that be right? Who should be held accountable for that?”

    Why not hold social media responsible??? But no, let’s go after guns.

  32. I’ve been wondering how this will affect the hunting industry over there.
    NZ has been on my bucket list for a nice Stag.
    I know, for now, bolt guns are allowed for me to bring in and hunt, but NZ just moved to the bottom of my bucket list.
    Dang it!

  33. Sounds like its time to resist… in New Zealand it should be pitchforks shovels and torches time.. citizens better not take it lying down that’s for sure..

  34. It was very easy for the New Zealand attorney general to ban the firearms… it was elements of their government that committed shooting.. just for that purpose, to ban firearms… they did the same thing and Australia years earlier…welcome to the NWO New Zealand..

  35. Yes, banning all non-governmental agents from possesing semi-automatic firearms will significantly and finally alter the intrinsic nature of man, finally. Evolution will benefit from this application of law allowing humankind to ascend to a higher plain of existence I accordance with our ultimate destiny to embrace universal perfection. What bullshit.

  36. Well, some more “rule of law” via “the consent of the governed” — the NZ AG has a preternatural sense of the weltenschtaung — sorry, will of the people: a sensing of the zeitgeist — sorry, general preference, of the volk — sorry, people.

    Did they run this by a snap poll on The Voice NZ, I wonder?

  37. I wonder if he was paid for the attack. I’d be curious to see the bank accounts of close and or potentially sick family members. Just thought, nothing more.

  38. I’ve been reading some of the first-hand accounts:

    – 40+ killed at one mosque, 7-9 at another where someone #shotback.

    – 20 min for the police to get there, 30 for ambulance, while some known injured bled out.

    – This jackhole published a manifesto including terrorism — killing people to bring attention to his “point” — as his intention. I’m unclear whether that went out “before” in some sense.

    – There were a bunch of them, something like a cell: at least relatives and others knew something was off with the shooter. No mention of anybody asking them beforehand.

    / Now, I don’t want to get off on a rant here, but…

    Armed, good people don’t shoot up mosques, schools or any other peaceful gathering places — picnics, say. When they’re there, armed, good people reduce the horror of whack-jobs run amok by stopping the carnage — like at picnics, say. When they’re not, nothing stops the whack-jobs, who are free to reload, like at nightclubs, day. (Said so in one of the articles.) Or find another batch of targets for their truck. (Happened with the truck maulings.) Or find another location — driving off by car, say.

    The police aren’t everywhere, and won’t necessarily stop the killing once they arrive — like at a school, say. Emergency, golden minute first aid doesn’t necessaarily happen once the ambulances arrive, either — also like a school, and now a mosque.

    And somehow, saying after the fact that it was a “known wolf” is supposed to make it better. “They” seem to know who these people are, before they go off. Yet, it’s always “Go after everybody.” and “Go after guns.” Why? Maybe becase peaceful, responsible people tend to be compliant (also, peaceful and repsonsible.) So going after them is cheap. Also ineffective, but who’s counting that? Going after the known wolves, they might react.

    How’s this: find the known wolves and follow them, so you’re there when they do something. If that’s too expensive — too many “kinda known wolves” — maybe get better at figuring out who’s gonna shoot up mosques and who isn’t? The Authoritah take the notion that they can get rid of guns as a given, but not that they can figure out who’s gonna kill people to make a point. Let’s pretend they’re right. OK, you can’t figure out who’s gonna do the next massacre n stop it, so … why render the victims you can’t prevent, helpless to help themselves?

    Meanwhile, of course whoever does a mass shooting is a “known wolf.” They treat us all like “known wolves.” That way they’re never wrong. It doesn’t do anything to keep more people alive, either, but who’s counting that?

    How’s this, too: A picnic, a Sikh temple, a Christian church, and this week a Mosque, the spree-killers driven off, and carnage stopped by a non-official with a gun. Responsible people seem to know when to #shootback, and especially when not to. How about we let them? Ban All The Things-person in charge, there is happy to rant about No Guns For the People Who Didn’t Shoot Up Mosques Today, not noting that a whole lot less people died at the place where soneone could #shootback.

    I guess she wants more carnage, if a bad guy goes off. Or at least doesn’t care about the actual, measured consequences of her spasm of reacting. I will offer a generic prayer, because the help that is needed is beyond me: *God, can we please help these people to respond to bad stuff like grown-ups.*

    The first news conference there’s gotta be Something To Do; and it’s gotta be concrete, immedate, and not discomfit the reacting mass. Find a scapegoat! — it’s not you it’s them! Pass a law, make a reg: one and done, and we’re off the hook — woo-hoo! Whether it helps doesn’t matter.

    The grown-up response is to not let ourselves off the hook. The leadership response is to help people do that. Leading a republic, perhaps is helping people grow into their responsibility to responsibly govern themselves. What we have is “”leaders” and “the people” locked in a dysfunctional loop of mutual absoution — probably the best argument there is that self-government can’t work. Sad.

    How about this: Can we help these People In Charge(tm) to ignore the facile opportunism, and embrace the implacable, cold rage of the people who have to live with the consequences of roaming whack-jobs killing people to make a point? Another easy non-answer isn’t good enough. We need to have the calm will to look at what will work. Not what’s easy, but what will work. Not the half-right snark that sounds clever, but what will work.

    — We can’t make the world safe. We can, maybe, make a dangerous world safer. We gotta stop being childish, stupid and lazy first. (If we could do nothing, every massacre would be the same. If we could do anything there would be no massacres.)

    — No, it isn’t guns: it’s people. Maybe work on the people part. (If it were guns, there wouldn’t be truck-mayhem, or the current knives spasm in England. Also ,we’e all be dead. There are something over 300,000,000-ish guns in the US, and have been for years.)

    — No, it isn’t all people: it’s some people. Maybe figure out who. (Even people with guns: 10’s of millions in the US, who knows how many in NZ don’t go on shooting sprees, ever. Whack-job-guy had permitted guns: kinds that are allowed to others, and he had a permit, and all the other people with all the other permitted guns didn’t go on a mosque-shooting spree. Mybe it’s him & his crew?)

    — No, there isn’t a “fix it” answer: we can mostly mitigate. Maybe figure out what mitigates. (Murder by any means has been against the law world-wide, for millennia. Also, organized, designed societies so everyone can be pure and happy, and not want to kill anybody. Murder still happens sometimes. We don’t know how to make all people peaceful, all the time. Also when we try, it often makes things worse. And how you gonna do that?)

    — No, we can’t make some shallow policy that stops all the bad people from doing bad things. Maybe chip away at that a little with the partial, hard stuff we already know: mental health, watch the known wolves, harden up a little because Everybody’s a Target(tm), Everywhere’s a Target(tm) too. (If our many shallow policies workd, this never would have happened.)

    — No, we won’t be able to stop the whack-jobs from doing carnage from time to time. Maybe mitigate how much carnage they can do. Get out. #shootback Tend the wounded. Maybe implement the same urgency, focus, n relevance before injured people get to a trauma center as happens once they’re inside. (What are the stats on spree-shooting tallies vs. response time? On survival and injuries vs. various strategies, like “shelter in place” vs. “run like your life depends on it.” On survival of injuries vs. first treatment; arrival at a trauma center; etc.)

    — No, all our best carnage-reduction won’t stop all of it. Maybe work on mitigating the carnage that’s gonna happen regardless. Grow the h-e-doubletoothpick up, and do what we can that will help, not what we can’t, that won’t.

    I, not religious, not Muslim, quote a famous on-point prayer:

    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

    God, if you’re out there, could you grant this perspective to our “leaders” and “officials” during events like this one: to know what they (and we) cannot change, to change what they (and we) can, and to please, please, please know the difference.

    A hint of help with that could convert me.

  39. Well, more facts come out via those notorious anti-Muslim, nationalist, white-supremecist outlets Fox News, and Hot Air based on local first-hand reports w/ hat-tip to those teabaggers at Instapundit (That was /sarc for the dense. Those folks are generally small govt, and decidedly Not Democrats. Other characterizations beyond that … not so much.)

    I’m gonna weigh in before too many of the astroturf-trolls get to seeding the comments here with false flag stuff for Vox n company to point to. (Alynski’s Rule 12. So much easier when you have the same paymasters, but I digress…) I don’t like that we have to do it but these guys (Meaning you guys — hi!) fight dirty.

    Eco-Facist, “China’s got the right idea.”, “shoot up Mosques to make a point”-guy isn’t us. The guy who stepped up to save a congregation is us, we hope, on our best day. All Honor to Abdul Aziz who stopped the killing at the Linwood Mosque with a credit card machine and an empty gun. Would that he were allowed better tools.

    /Now I don’t want to get off on another rant here, but…

    So, one lone guy confronted the gunman “with a credit card machine and an empty gun”, stopped the massacre and drove the armored, face-covered murderer away. (Demonstrating again that these whackjobs are frakking cowards, stop when they’re confronted, and get confused by anthing that interrupts the movie in their head. But, we knew that.) About 1/4 the dead where the gunman was confronted vs. where he was not.

    The man who confronted the shooter is named Abdul Aziz, presumably Muslim given he was at a Mosque, and the Imam there spoke of him. All Honor to Him.

    *I say that that guy — Abdul Aziz , presumably of Muslim faith, of somewhere around Linwood, can arm himself up with anything he wants to carry*, even little nukes if there are any left from our gentle congresscritter throwing them at US Citizens. I say that that guy passed a test that noone wants to, and few can. And SHAME ON NZ AG & MP FOR DECLARING THEY’LL MAKE SURE THIS GUY STAYS DISARMED. Some Jackhole is shooting up Mosques, they can’t stop it, but by god they’ll make sure nobody can. It’s only surprising that they didn’t announce banning credit card machines at the same time.

    The people who step up, and do what they can when that’s all that’s left to them: All Honor to Them. All of them, by which I mean this guy, too; Muslim guy, from Afghanistan. All Honor to Him.

    Pro-gun people in the US are far from “anti-Muslim.” We’re anti-death. Anti-nihlism. Anti-stupid waste of precious things. Anti-letting whackjobs run amok. We’re in the main only anti-imposition as a consequence: it gets people killed and lets officious functionaries screw things up beyond their natural level.

    Anybody who’s for more life is on our side. This guy — a Muslim, originally from Afghanistan, named Abdul Aziz — stepped up to stop a spree killing among people minding their own business. All Honor to Him, along with the kid nobody mentions any more who died holding a door for his classmates, the kids who got others under ballistic blankets, the guy who ran past the official protectors from his atheletic field, the college teacher who died buying his kids a few more seconds escape, the people who stood fast to wave and carry other concertgoers out of the kill zone in Las Vegas, the list goes on.

    Immeasural courage, moral clarity, even dare I say it holiness, in an instant, shown by people untrained, usually unskilled, doing what they can, because it needs doing, Abdul Aziz now among them.

    How dare that squaking Arbitrary General, her Primed Masticator hiding behind a tweet, use this man’s courage to try to keep him disarmed. And their enablers and sycophants. What to say about that? Maybe that they should all, every single one of them, have the option to be armed, like the guy who drove the shooter away from a kids picnic: he could because he was carrying.

    What to say to people who’s first instinct confronted with that kind of split-second courage is to make sure they hobble these people so clearly better than they? There’s this song that keeps trying to come to mind; one of CeeLo Green’s hits… Don’t worry, it’ll come to me.

  40. We, the law abiding, background passed, licensed, trained and in many cases more experienced than most cops, are going to be on the losing end of this. We are going to lose gun rights all over the place, even though WE are NOT the problem. Some of us will become criminals because some will refuse to turn in our guns or comply with the rules. I will not give up my ability to protect my family and myself. Laws be dammed if they are unfair to Lawful Gun Owners.
    Someone needs to work up the numbers of lives saved by civilians with lawful gun against criminals armed with weapons in recent years, like 2018 if possible. That info needs to be made VERY public as I am sure its a high number of saves by citizens. Many without a shot even being fired.

    • “That info needs to be made VERY public as I am sure its a high number of saves by citizens. Many without a shot even being fired.”

      Am I missing something here? The data you ask for has been posted and linked numerous times on TTAG. However, be cautioned that the data is irrelevant to the prevention of loss of “gun rights”. Indeed, all data regarding lawful gun use is irrelevant, because anti-gun legislation is not concerned with utility, prevention, safety or, most assuredly, common sense.

    • And there we go again…..thinking we can reason with the anti-gun, anti-rights zealots. Didn’t work with King George, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, Idi Amin, Stalin, Castro, Chavez, or any other tyrant in history. The ONLY effective solution is implementation of the Second Amendment for which our Founding Fathers intended.

      • Facts, reason, letting the whack-jobs and agenda-mongers expose themselves (Eeeeew.) *can* influence *some* of the persuadable middle. Anybody remember that book a year or two back breaking people into 5 categories for different kinds of influence? Made the best seller list, AIR?

        We gotta peel off some folks, enough to win beyond the Margin of Fraud. They don’t have to be committed 2A folk. If they vote the right way because Those People can’t be trusted with the authoritah to operate elevator buttons, that’s good enough.

        Conveniently, the anti-people are acting crazy, scary and out of control at every opportunity. Conveniently, they can’t help themselves. Typically, the pro-gun folks, R-party, and the rest can’t capitalize on this to literally save their lives.

        At least it ain’t boring. #moarpopcorn

  41. The concept of disarming law abiding citizens to control crime is beyond the comprehension of these politicians. Criminals will always find a way to bypass any gun law and commit murder. Here was a case of a person who was legally allowed to own guns and then became radicalized with hatred towards a group of people and there was no way to know ahead of time what he would do.
    So punish everybody for the crimes of ONE PERSON.

    • “So punish everybody for the crimes of ONE PERSON.”

      Absolutely. Never let a crisis go to waste.

      Besides, we are not talking about punishing everybody for the crimes of one person, the crimes of one person are being used as an excuse for exploiting a crisis that prospers the goal.

      • Same difference. Killer used a semi auto firearm so ban EVERYBODY from owning one. If that isn’t a punishment for people who are law abiding, then what is it? The U.K. banned almost all gun ownership so knife crime went up, now they are banning knives so maybe killings with Cricket Bats will go up. Where does it stop? Bad guys will always find a way to circumvent any law. Laws against murder, rape, theft, kidnapping and other crimes does not deter them, they just dictate punishment when the perp is caught and convicted.
        The end goal is total disarmament of all weapons and the institution of a Dictatorship.

        • The price of liberty is eternal vigilance (or something to that effect).

          Evil never rests, not point in decrying the fact.

          The drive to subdue, subjugate and control people will never end (maybe even never recede). If our fate is to eventually lose the contest, so be it. If we cannot muster the voting strength to stem the tide, reverse the winds, that is a natural outcome of the political process. If we, as a nation, value style over principal, we, as a nation will reap the reward for that. We keep fighting the war we want, while the enemy outflanks with their version of the war. We want everyone to play by the rules, forces of evil want to rule everybody.

      • As stated above….“So punish everybody for the crimes of ONE PERSON.”
        Mr/Ms Politician: Great idea. That will work.
        Every man that enters seminary to become a Catholic priest…..castrate them.
        Everyone that files to run for governor of Illinois…….build another cell and sentence them in the Governor’s wing at the Menard Correctional Facility.

  42. As I recall, 70 years ago, had it not been for America’s gun culture, New Zealand would be speaking Japanese today. Stupidity and insanity know no borders.
    Per the 74-page manifesto of the NZ shooter, his stated goal was to prompt a greater push for gun control and the abolition of the Second Amendment in the US, sparking a schism that would irrevocably divide the country.
    The manifesto stated: I could have chosen any weapons or means. A TATP (Triacetone Triperoxide) filled rental van. Household flour, a method of dispersion and an ignition source. A ballpeen hammer and a wooden shield. Gas, fire, vehicular attacks, plane attacks, any means were available. I had the will and I had the resources.
    I chose firearms for the affect (sic) it would have on social discourse, the extra media coverage they would provide and the affect it could have on the politics of United states (sic) and thereby the political situation of the world. The US is torn into many factions by its second amendment, along state, social, cultural and, most importantly, racial lines.
    As the shooter stated, he could have chosen any method with which to kill.
    “Killing is a matter of will, not weapons.
    You cannot control the act itself
    by passing laws about the means employed.”
    The late Col Jeff Cooper, 1958
    Handgun expert and founder of Gunsite Academy
    A politician with a law never stops a bad guy with a gun
    he only controls the good guy….which is his true agenda.
    Evil and violence exist….should they come knocking at your door, be prepared to decisively deal with them or be over whelmed and dead.
    Laws only control those accepting to be controlled. Criminals choose not to be controlled by laws.
    If God’s “Thou Shalt Not Kill” isn’t sufficient,
    Why would a politician’s law be the answer???
    More attempts at greater gun control only provide for less dangerous killing fields…..for the perpetrator.
    Insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different outcome.

  43. Muslims murdered more than 30 Christians in Nigeria last week. This is just the latest account of systematic Islamic violence towards Christ-followers in that country.

    The Guardian reports that Fulani herdsmen assaulted the Christians around 4 a.m. in Karamar village in the Maro district of Kajuru.

    The herdsman reportedly set fire to several houses and a church. The terrorists then sporadically shot at families trying to escape the blaze, killing 32 people. I believe it was March 4th. I don’t recall a lot of media coverage. Muslim leaders calling out the perpetrators!

  44. And, God Forbid, if another mass shooting should occur with the Perp using 2 “Semi-Automatic Handguns” does the Government OUTLAW ALL SEMI-AUTO HANDGUNS NEXT? Then Revolvers next? How did they MISS getting Shotguns included? It is NOT THE WEAPON but the MIND BEHIND IT. Please Go After The Cause This Insane persons’ “Manifesto” explained it very clearly for a change. We don’t get the insight provided by Him and It, often in these shootings, ie Vegas who knows. LEARN FROM IT, Quit the “Knee-Jerk” Reactions that solve NOTHING!

  45. NZ Prime Minister better ban air too because that guy was breathing it! Oh my, the sky is falling! Yougotone crazy fool goes berzerk so take everyone else’s weapons!

  46. Sad to see a nation that was once home to free people and rugged individualism fall into a socialist, Muslim hugging nanny state. This is the average Libertard Socialist reaction to gun involved crime, “Punish the Law Abiding Gun Owners.” It’s like the sheep Dog attacking the sheep flock because the wolf attacked the flock.

  47. Politicians just dont get it. the crazies will ignore the ban and then the law abiding wil not be able to protect them selves. How can they be so blind?

  48. All to true, Citizens of the US better wake up, the government keeps warning about terrorist, all 2nd amendment supporters should be teaching why to arm-up is a must, as the response time in NZ was 20 minutes, almost like living in a no gun area, SCHOOL ZONE, ring a bell!!! Forget the gun grabbers if we are lucky some deranged person might come to their senses.

  49. Banning any type of firearm just plays into any extremist organization’s or group’s hands by disarming the people, thus making them more vulnerable. Where were the police when this atrocity occurred? When seconds count, the police are only minutes away – if not hours. It was a good guy with a gun that put the murderer to flight – not the police. Criminals do not obey laws, but the politicians, ever ready to make themselves more indispensable (seemingly), are perfectly willing to disarm the law-abiding citizenry to do so. The next time, they’ll wring their hands and mouth platitudes, promising more, delivering much less – again.

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