“A Florida jury found Michael Dunn guilty on four of the five charges in a case in which he was accused of shooting a teenager to death over loud music, but they could not come to a decision on the murder charge and a mistrial was declared on that count.” Dunn was found guilty of three counts of attempted second degree murder and one count of firing a gun into a car, according to ABC News. Dunn shot and killed Jordan Davis in November of 2012 after asking four teens to turn down the music in their car. He claimed he opened fire when one of the teens got out of the car and he saw a shotgun. No firearm was found, however. Perhaps the fact that he left the scene after the shooting, drove home and ordered a pizza rather than calling 911 played a part in the jury’s decision.
‘Bout damn time…
Perhaps it did indeed.
I never would have thought that the 9th circuit would bet stronger on the 2nd Amendment than the courts for NY and NJ…
For Mr. Kelly:
“Gaby and I stand in the middle”
One side seeks further gun control measures by means of legislation. The other side wants no more legislated gun control measures. In fact, this side would like many if not all current legislation repealed. Since you are lobbying for additional gun control measures, you are most certainly not in the middle.
“We say no to the cynical efforts of the gun lobby – No to the philosophy of more guns at any cost”
Who said we need more guns at any cost? It has been said that more guns equates to lower crime. Whether it does or does not – doesn’t matter. Our rights to self defense of our person, family, country, and liberty is guaranteed. The philosophy of this statement should be held at any cost.
“We insist on the responsible exercise of gun rights”
Me too. By means of personal responsibility – not legislated pre-accident, pre-crime law. Any consequence due to the lack of responsibility should be processed by law through due process. We the people are not a corporation to be regulated by safety polices. We are people with our own rights, freedoms, and responsibility. My safety is my responsibility – not belonging to anyone else.
“Our rights are an attribute of citizenship”
No. Our rights are granted by the creator to all people on planet earth. These are called natural rights and are a philosophy of free people. People who’s rights are outlawed by legislation still retain those rights. They have only made the decision not to exercise their rights for risk of consequence of punishment and are unwilling to (currently) fight for them.
“Weapons of war are not available to criminals”
It is arguable that the technology of all guns at one point in time were derived from a weapon of war. Furthermore, no legislation will prevent a person from performing a crime or otherwise breaking the law. Harsher penalties for infringing on the rights of others could deter these people.
“Guns stay out of the hands of dangerous people”
Anyone can be dangerous and anyone can get a gun if they are determined.
“Firearms are not left around so that kids can shoot other kids”
I don’t think any firearms are ever left around so that kids can shoot other kids. However, children having access to firearms fall in the realm of personal responsibility. Some parents may support their children’s access and training to/for firearms in the event they may need it.
“No guns in bars”
This is a no issue. People that are irresponsible and know they get violent or have otherwise can’t control themselves with alcohol would drink anyways. People who are irresponsible would likely break the law and take a firearm in the bar anyways if this law was enacted. Irresponsible people do Irresponsible things regardless of law. The law is a piece of paper that cannot guarantee the control, actions, and decisions of people. This topic is a matter of personal responsibility.
“No Guns in classrooms or college campuses”
Since classrooms and college campuses seems to be the target of mass shootings, it appears this law is ineffective for its intention. If you are willing to killed dozens of people… why would you care about a law that says no guns on campus. The shooter would likely not have any guns on campus until it is time for him to start shooting. Completely ineffective and eliminates the ability of other students from defending themselves.
“Our rights aren’t the strongest when our laws are the weakest”
Our rights have nothing to do with the law, and the law certainly should not be encroaching into the territory of “rights.” Rights are rights. They should not be strong or weak.
“When our laws are weak our communities and families are not safe”
Laws in no way or form make families or communities safe. Safety is each persons own responsibility. Passing legislation does not guarantee someone is never going to break that law.
I’ve had mine for 4 months , cleaned it ,not a problem ever .i clean and lube it after every use,great carry gun. i carry mine in my front pocket and forget its there.love mine!!
He should of just said he thought they were delivering newspapers.
heh heh
He would have had to been the police to to use that one.
Justice (appears) to have been served. I’m happy.
Maybe the young men had a gun. Maybe not. We may never know. But I’d say the jury ruled appropriately given the facts available.
FLAME DELETED We already know…THEY DID NOT HAVE A GUN!!!!—Stop trying to justify this racist assholes actions… FLAME DELETED
A man with anger and control issues let himself go a little too far and then didn’t know how to rein himself back in. This is why I want to carry a gun. There’s not enough cops out there to keep his kind off the streets.
This! He should have walked away.
There are people who do things with a gun they wouldn’t do without. These are the people who end up in the news or in handcuffs.
What kind of gun did he use? Please dont let it be a KelWreck.
Taurus 9mm
http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/02/mid-day-wrapup-loud-music-murder-trial-day-three-2/
Yup, it took a few minutes of googling but it was a stainless Taurus 92. Had a stainless Taurus 917 for awhile, the chopped barrel version of the 92, sweet looking piece and fairly reliable but shot horribly low. Also it blew hot powder straight back into your face. Traded it at a loss, Tauruses are horrible for resale value.
Good riddance. If he had time to get his pistol out of the glove box and load it, he had time to get in the car and leave. All rights come with responsibilities, and he failed to act responsibly. As my old man would say, discretion is the better part of valor.
What kind of pizza?
I’m sorry. That’s privileged.
a high capacity pizza with so many features such as pepperoni, sausage, olives, and sardines. with that many features, he probably had to go through a 30 minute waiting period.
I fIND yOUR lACK oF aNCHOVIES dISTURBING
I’m with you man, Pizza is like bacon, (a few threads ago) A man has got to have his pizza, especially if it’s pepperoni!
Organic vegetable, I just finished it, sorry there isn’t any left.
Macho fella like that, had to be all meat. I like to think that gunning somebody down would totally ruin my appetite, but who knows. I don’t presume to understand what that must be like.
And to celebrate, i’m ordering a pizza myself tonight!
Many wonder why this case received such extensive publicity. I skip right by that question, happy that an example of doing everything wrong has been highlighted.
Whatever the truth is, we know he returned to get his gun. We know from his own testimony that he wasn’t sure whether he saw “a shotgun or a stick in the car.” We know from his girlfriend’s testimony that he’d had “three or four” rum-and-colas” shortly before. We know that if he had one target he feared, somebody with “a shotgun or a stick,” that he either wasn’t aiming at that person or he had a horrific lack of pistol-shooting skills. We know that he returned his pistol to the glove compartment before pulling away, showing that he was no longer afraid of the remaining young men in the SUV. We know he didn’t call 911 as soon as he reached a point of safety from his perspective.
So those carrying handguns shouldn’t play junior policeman about noise violations, shouldn’t return to trouble once they’ve moved away from it, should not mix guns and alcohol, should not practice spray-and-pray as if it provided a defense, should learn to shoot with reasonable accuracy under pressure, and should call 911 as soon as it is safe to do so.
People will say they don’t need reminders. I say that a reminder doesn’t hurt.
Mr. Sweeney, I have sworn to defend your rights and am willing to lay my life down for yours. It would be nice if you would defend mine as well, as you have also sworn to defend. You are the epitome of hypercritic!!!
Those who don’t support Conceal Carry get RECALLED
I agree with the author. As common sense and most in LE will say… the easiest way to tell if a shooting is justified is this… did the shooter call the police and wait on the scene.
What an irresponsible idiot! Total lack of situational awareness, leading to really, really bad actions. Another friggin idiot for us to pay for with our tax dollars while he is in prison. And, a black mark on all of us who carry responsibly – the media will capitalize on this crap and lump US in with him. Bet on it. Hope he enjoys all the sex he’ll get in general population from some really ticked off black guys…,serves him right. Friggin moron!
..Well, that’s why I simply DO NOT TRUST anyone who carries…Just the idea of all that power may be too tempting to some moron, like Dunn…Problem is…there is no way of knowing just who the next “Dunn or Zimmerman” might be!!—So I’d like all of you gun-toting “wyatt earp” types to stay the hell away from me and my family!—Thank you very much!
Well this really illustrates the mindset of anti-2A people in this nation. It doesn’t matter what the rule of law is. Constitutional, Federal, or state law. These people in power don’t care. What they think is right trumps everything else.
I question Dunn’s defense team. Why wasn’t a change of venue requested in order to increase the odds of selecting an all-white jury? If I were his lawyer, that would have been my first move. Instead, the jury was diverse and look at the outcome. It’s a travesty.
Nope, he got exactly what he deserved. He started the fight, he left and returned to the fight, he didn’t call the police afterwards. He showed poor judgment at every single step.
As far as a change of venue, I don’t think it was warranted. This case really did not get that much press that it would be impossible to empanel an unbiased local jury.
This guy is a liberal troll who is trying to paint all gun owners are racist trigger happy apes. Don’t reply to his trolling.
Go away liberal troll.
I just censored my own comment with yesterday’s warning in mind. Waddaya know? Self-policing works!
Any legislation that agrees with “shall not be infringed” is common sense in my book.
This lady rocks.
Maybe I need to move down to Myrtle Beach and be with family. Love the beaches there.
Well, you will have to buy land there to carry a gun due to their lack of reciprocity which is rooted in racism & preventing blacks from being armed.
That’s OK, maybe a SCOTUS ruling will shove a ccw up his arse.
From what I understood watching the trial Dunn never called police or even his federal leo friend. His friend called him to ask him out to dinner that night. The police found Dunn because a witness got his plate number. In my mind the fact that he never called law enforcement even after he was definitely in a safe area is a clear red flag. Also why would he leave his gun in the car if, as he said, he was still afraid they were coming to get him at his hotel room? Plus why does his fiance not recall him ever telling her he had a gun even when he insists he told her several times before the police found him? I didn’t really see much testimony corroborating anything he had to say. Seems to me that he made a poor decision and tried to get away with it by not telling anyone. Unfortunately for him the long arm of the law found him pretty quick so he had to come up with the 4 inches of barrel story.
The Brady Bunch was spouting this same “streets will be like Dodge City” mantra in 1987 when Florida went “shall issue.” It never panned out. There have been several million licenses issued since 1987 and only 128 times as a license holder used a gun to commit a crime. That is straight out of official Florida statistics.
The constitution is federal law which preempts any state law. “Shall not be infringed” is pretty clear language. States should not be able to regulate the second amendment. The constitution is all the documentation we should need to carry a firearm. In order to regulate the carry of firearms you must first change the second amendment. Until it is changed, constitutional carry is the only type of carry. How SCOTUS has been able to interpret the 2A to give states the ability to regulate, is a complete bastardization of the constitutional congress’s intent.
Yahooo…..we broke 300!
Here’s hoping we hit 400.
What all these comments tell me is that people like this blog. Maybe even love it. Even if they are disagreeing with the post and it’s intent, it’s most likely because they care about this place and want to see it remain the best damn example of a gun media outlet/community. Yes I’m optimistic.
Can ttag start a petition to nominate her for the republican presidential primary’s; I’m sure the gun blogosphere would play along if Farrago peddled it around.
The MSM would tear her to SHREDS, because as a woman she’s off the proverbial plantation. Women are supposed to be liberal, after all.
As opposed to what they’ll do to any republican candidate male or female?
“calculated to alarm”
what the hell does that mean exactly?
North Carolina being one of the friendly states that allows permit holders from any state (reciprocating or not) to carry there, I am not surprised…
Ah! Case in point! I had an equipment flaw that caused my post to be submitted unintentionally. I only blame myself – even though the touchpad on my laptop is way too sensitive. I “chose” to forego adjusting it for over 2 years!
Back to topic . . .
As stated (ad nauseum, in both sides of the “opinions”) in earlier posts, the Shooters ultimately allowed their trigger fingers to enter into the trigger-guard and pull the trigger, discharging the weapon.
Hold on, this is where I agree, in principle, with Mr. Koenig, that statistically, a Negilgent Discharge, and quite possibly (although rarely) an Accidental Discharge will occur. However to blame just the holster is ludicrous & irresponsible. It would never hold up on any court (except King Obama’s).
Again, the HUMAN factor (the Shooter) is the most influential factor in something going amiss (to say the least). Now add in the type of weapons (in these cases): Glock & 1911 with short, single-action trigger travel. One has no safety, the other had one or more of the safeties defeated. This still is in no way the fault of the weapons, but their trigger configurations contributed.
Now on to #2 – UNFAMILIARITY
It is unstated, but explicitly implied, that none of the ND shooters were completely familiar with their equipment and levels of training (remember, they were participating in classes). Whether they are experienced shooters, law enforcement, military, etc., the operation of new/different equipment has to be made familiar to the point of instinct.
Let’s use automobiles as an example. I have been driving for nearly 40 years, but I have to be familiar with my vehicle, the terrain, weather & traffic conditions as well as intangibles (i.e. other drivers, good or bad). I cannot get into a different vehicle and be completely “comfortable” nor competent in every driving situation. Driving in mid-sized cities or suburbs is much different from driving the interstate at 75-80 MPH with hundreds of other cars, weather conditions, and driving an unfamiliar vehicle puts me at a much greater risk of something going amiss. There is no difference with shooting equipment.
In the cases of ND, were the shooters FAMILIAR with their respective weapons, or trying something new – gun AND/or holster. I have taken two 4-day courses at a well-known shooting school in Nevada, and both times the instructors told the participants about ND’s their causes & effects. Both times ND’s happened on one of the ranges. The second one was a seasoned law enforcement officer who made the decision to go to a high-intensity training course with an UNFAMILIAR weapon. In this case (I state this because the brand is my primary carry weapon), the officer CHOSE to shoot a SIG Sauer P22x – double/single action, no safety, decocking lever. Short story shorter, the officer holstered the SIG with the hammer still in battery (cocked) on a live chamber. Through his UNFAMILIARITY with the SIG, he forgot to decock the hammer. In addition, and unlike the posted ND’s, he had part or all of his trigger finger inside the guard while HOLSTERING the weapon, causing it to discharge. The Range Officer/trainer on my range was one of the EMT’s to administer to the officer on another range. The shooter had a .40 slug penetrate his leg very much like the picture at the top of this post. Bottom line: An experienced shooter (HUMAN) with an UNFAMILIAR weapon, employing UNFAMILIAR techniques in UNFAMILIAR circumstances & environments all contributed to the ND.
Add in #3, INCOMPATIBILITY
Yes, perhaps the Glock & 1911 are incompatible with the Blackhawk Serpa holster, due to the intended nature of the short trigger pulls. However, the SHOOTER CHOSE to purchase & USE the equipment – weapon AND holster, making INCOMPATIBILITY a much larger contributor to the ND than it should be.
A holster that requires trigger-finger manipulation to draw the weapon ups the ante (risk) that something may (no way am I saying WILL) happen. This is especially true with the Glock, 1911 or cocked SIG (or whatever). The HOLSTER, itself, plays no part, but can be a contributor to the bigger-picture mishap.
The only way a shooter can absolutely minimize a ND is to never pick up a weapon – PERIOD. Like playing the lottery (or not): You cannot win unless you play. As soon as he/she pcks up a weapon, the probability/risk of an ND goes from zero and starts to ratchet up. In the vast majority of cases (thankfully) the risk rarely “triggers” (pun intended) an ND. Note that the SHOOTER is the common denominator in EVERY ND, whether holster-related, or something else. Add in UNFAMILIARITY and INCOMPATIBILITY, then the risk elevates at an accelerated pace.
Hopefully, you get the gist of what I am saying here. I am going to share some personal experiences (keeping them short):
I have had more than one ND in my 50 years of shooting. One put a .22 LR slug through my lower leg (flesh wound) and living/bedroom walls. Every one of my ND’s were rightly contributed to HUMAN negligence. I call it STUPIDITY because it was ME. I thank God that that one and the others did not hit, injure or kill anyone.
Lastly, I found this posting because I purchased a Blackhawk Serpa to ultimately replace the Uncle Mikes paddle Kydex holster that I have been carrying my SIG’s in for over 15 years. The Serpa is very much more comfortable, the weapons easier to access & draw, and has adjustability for different situations.
However, in my
FL overcharged again. I’m not sure how they were going to prove 1st degree murder with this being more of a heat of the moment crime. I;m guessing that’s why the state kept harping on his thug music statement to show pre malice.
Should have went 2nd degree, probably would have got that too.
Some of the hippies’ ideas – like more personal freedom and less government – were good. Too bad that most of them forgot about those principles along the way.
If you like your guns you can keep them. It’s clear the people of Connecticut are well aware of what registration leads to. Hitler disarmed the people and gassed Millions. Stalin disarmed the masses and starved millions. There’s plenty of examples of what happens when the people submit to the powers of a dictatorial government. We have a Hitler in the White House, a Stalin running the Justice Department. Do you really trust any of these socialists? When its time to vote, make your voices heard at the polls.
From the LA Times:
The ruling “has not yet changed existing state law,” the sheriff’s department noted in a statement Friday.
Applications for permits will continue to be processed. In cases where the applicant can demonstrate a valid reason for being allowed to carry a concealed weapon, the permit will be issued, the department said.
http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-79317411/
Sounds to me like it’s business as usual. My initial thought is that if Gore is not ready to stand behind a ruling from the Ninth Circuit, it’s time to vote for a new Sheriff.
Are you kidding me? Could anyone be stupid enough to trust those leftist scum? Leaving aside the absurdity and foolishness of registering a firearm in the first place, once they can get gun owners to accept this false “amnesty” they will promptly charge them with felonies in order to A) confiscate their firearms and B) prevent them from legally obtaining other firearms in the future. As if an enterprising and evil leftist Attorney General (Lawlor, we’re looking at you) wouldn’t simply say that the Governor simply did not have legal authority to offer this ersatz amnesty and that all such gun owners must be prosecuted.
Just fired my MVP Patrol .308 for the first time. Nice weapon. Does what is expected. I did learn that it does not like my M1A1/M14 Mags. Had issues with one dropping out and a few rounds would not chamber. Second issue is I did not tighten rail screws before mounting my optics. Rail came loose after a few rounds. Had to remove scope and attempt to re-zero. I was shooting Australian NATO ammo I had laying around. No idea how heavy but my pattern started getting sloppy at 225′. although, my loose optics may have had something to do with it.
Next example of civil disobedience is New York State. Just a handful of weeks. The deadline to register all AWs and deadly high cap magazines is April 15. Let’s see what happens, LMAO….
There is a reason firms hire celebrities to endorse their products. Movie personalities, sports figures etc all have influences on their fans and sell product. Political views are no different and should be of concern.
Only Dimwitted fans who don’t have enough of a life would follow what some of these HYPOCRITES say about anything especially when it has to do with VIOLENCE of any kind. SEX, DRUGS, and VIOLENCE are the key reasons movies make money. How many actors have been buried because of the a fore mentioned?
I dunno, I prefer weddings mainly because we usually have AKs at them.
Nick and Robert both say its a piece of shit, so it must be. Never mind the hundreds of designers, engineers, developers and assemblers (many who I’m sure are avid shooters), who think the gun is NOT an EPIC FAILURE! Who did you talk to at Remington that made you conclude, “Remington doesn’t seem interested in making those changes.”?
The pistol hasn’t even been released to the masses. The consumer, US…We will make or break the R51. If WE experience the issue you pointed out and Remington is not interested in making changes, the R51 will not only be an “epic failure”, it will be one of the biggest mistakes made company wide. Remington didn’t jump back into the fray simply to waste money, be closed minded, and disregard their paying customers!
Finally, I’ve never read a review where the author cried so much about how painful a pistol was. I’m thinking Nicks’s EDC is a .22 cal.
“Wizard of Oz…” Cute.
Always have liked the uncompromising functionality of H&K; ’bout as much pizzaz as a Czechoslovak army truck, but they do work.
I saw a Century Arms clone at Cabelas a few weeks ago. It looked like a nice rifle condition and build wise. Who knows how it functioned?
First pistol I ever shot.. a S&W Model 66. Thanks to an Indiana County Deputy at the time and later a State Policeman.
I’ll stick to my Service Six. Heavy, beautiful, able to take hot loads, and quite possibly the smoothest trigger I’ve used (although I believe the former owner had done some smoothing himself). Cost me half the price my wife’s 686 cost, and some of the best money I’ve ever spent.
Translation: “I’m a Fascist.”
I have the original XDs .45 and although I hated how the safety recall was handled, I still love the weapon….including the trigger. It’s much crisper than the trigger on my XDm .45 compact.
Hmm much as I “need” a new pocketknife, it’s a bit too “no so big or scary looking”. I happen to like the reaction when I have to use my BM Bedlam in public, all the damnyankees move aside and go talk about how great NYC is somewhere I can’t hear.
Funny the Newspaper wants to use the 1st Amendment but does not want people to beable to use the 2nd Amendment .