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“A Florida jury found Michael Dunn guilty on four of the five charges in a case in which he was accused of shooting a teenager to death over loud music, but they could not come to a decision on the murder charge and a mistrial was declared on that count.” Dunn was found guilty of three counts of attempted second degree murder and one count of firing a gun into a car, according to ABC News. Dunn shot and killed Jordan Davis in November of 2012 after asking four teens to turn down the music in their car. He claimed he opened fire when one of the teens got out of the car and he saw a shotgun. No firearm was found, however. Perhaps the fact that he left the scene after the shooting, drove home and ordered a pizza rather than calling 911 played a part in the jury’s decision.

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  1. Hey, taking out the trash makes a guy hungry. But he should have called the cops, you know, to draw the chalk outline and all…

    • Sure.

      ►Educated well spoken software Engineer from Florida asks gang banger to turn down the blaring music.
      ►Gang bangers say “Yeah! I’m going to FXXXXXX kill you, ” and slams a gun against the door of red SUV – “I should kill that MotherXXXXXX”
      ►With a shotgun pointed at him software engineer doesn’t escalate anything or pull his firearm.
      ►Gang bangers open SUV door and says “you’re dead bXXXX.”
      ►Software engineer still does nothing and waits for the situation to deescalate.
      ►Gang banger opens back passenger door with some object in hand and says “This is going down”
      .►Software engineer grabs gun from glove compartment box and fires at gangbanger and SUV (which he believes still has a shotgun in it).
      ►Gangbangers floor the vehicle in reverse and leave the scene.
      ►Software Engineer sees on the news that a gang banger was killed at the convenience store parking lot. ►Software Engineer calls and notifies his neighbor (a federal law enforcement officer) of his actions the prior day.
      ►Software Engineer is arrested.

      So… if you are ok with gangbangers threatening you with death and pointing firearms at you… sure… live with that.

      The driver of the SUV had a felony conviction. In my opinion everyone in that SUV has some sketchy credibility.

      There were no eyewitnesses to validate the software engineer’s claim. The testimony of 5 gangbangers with the driver having a felony conviction is sketchy at best. Its just his word against theirs.

      Maybe you should do some reading first:

      • Ooooh he’s a software engineer! He can’t be a murderer! Hey, why didn’t the wife see that gun? Hey, why did he go hide at a hotel instead of calling the police?

        • Just reading what is listed here on TTAG tells nothing. But listening to the shooters testimony tells something very different.

          Listening to the victims testimony here:

          the story is very different from the shooter’s story. So different that somebody is lying. To answer your question… no – not defending him anymore. The stories are so wildly different.

          SUV had a shotgun
          threatening passenger opened door

          SUV had no shotgun – davis had a cellphone in his hand
          doors could not be opened because the child locks were engaged – door was never opened.

        • if you read my other responses to posts similar to yours you would see that I don’t. It does seem like a surprising role reversal:

          Bass thumping, mirror vibrating SUV with passenger cussing and threatening nearby vehicle get shot at by crazed software engineer from the nearby vehicle.

        • “Bass thumping, mirror vibrating SUV with passenger cussing and threatening nearby vehicle”

          Can apply to any color.

      • Very interesting. The one time in my life I was arrested was when 4 people filed a false police report. The charges were dropped & it could have been a whole lot worse. When you have numerous people discussing amonst themselves what happened they have time to come up with a good story. Not saying this happened, I just hope justice prevails.

      • I’m sorry, but approving of the verdict and sentence is in no way equivalent to being “ok with gangbangers threatening you with death and pointing firearms at you…” since there is no way to know that actually happened, nothing to corroborate Dunn’s story. in fact no evidence of the shotgun exists at all. Perhaps being or knowing a felon, the individuals knew some trick to mimic the presence of a shotgun bore while concealing what would be the rest of the gun, who knows.

        Having read the links you provided, I find nothing to change my mind. According to the available evidence, this seems to be the proper verdict.

        • Not true at all!!!—We clearly know what happened…There were three eyewitnesses that Dunn didn’t kill how told us what happened…YOU just chose NOT to believe ANY of the African-American witnesses, and only took the word of a proven white racist..And then YOU have the gall to claim that “we don’t know what actually happened”?!?!? UNBELIEVEABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • “►Educated well spoken software Engineer from Florida asks gang banger to turn down the blaring music.”

        And that was the “educated well spoken software engineer” made his fatal error.

        • There was nothing “code” about his post…It was blatantly RACIST is full of stereotypes and bullshit!!

      • Hey “clans man” they were NOT “gang banger”…And both you and Dunn are idiots and racists…If you are so afraid of black people, then perhaps you need to get some professional mental help for your phobia and STOP making up bull shit excuses to kill un armed kids….Get a life!

    • This guy was clearly wrong in everything I’ve seen. Stand your ground here was laughable. He got pissed about teens playing loud music and started the argument and he blew his top. There was never a threat (credible) that I’ve heard. And his actions after the shooting show a conscience of guilt. He had a very different path after the shooting than Zimmerman.

      I think 1st degree might have been an overcharge but he was definitely guilty of 2nd or voluntary manslaughter.

  2. He really should have left something that trivial up to the cops after the punk blew him off, instead of, y’know, blowing the punk’s chest out with a scattergun.

    Just sayin’.

  3. Justice (appears) to have been served. I’m happy.

    Maybe the young men had a gun. Maybe not. We may never know. But I’d say the jury ruled appropriately given the facts available.

    • FLAME DELETED We already know…THEY DID NOT HAVE A GUN!!!!—Stop trying to justify this racist assholes actions… FLAME DELETED

      • All he said was “maybe” they had a gun. But the ultimate outcome was the guy got what he deserved in his jail sentence. You really need to calm down a little; you’re attacking people with whom you agree.

      • We really need the sun to rise on these trolls. It is getting old. Comments are starting to read like the press release from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.

        • For what it’s worth, the 20 or so comments that Frank left here are the first ones he’s ever left on TTAG, and will likely be the last.

          If you recall, we had quite a few of these “one and dones” during the Zimmerman trial. There’s not much point in arguing against them (although even I did in this case), because the vast majority of the time these folks never return to see the responses anyway. The only value in responding is if they raise factual points to be rebutted, and then you’re arguing the points for those that might come along reading later. If it’s not factual, it’s really not worth responding to.

  4. A man with anger and control issues let himself go a little too far and then didn’t know how to rein himself back in. This is why I want to carry a gun. There’s not enough cops out there to keep his kind off the streets.

      • Yes yes yes. Never should have started the interacting. Keep mouth shut. Walk away. Live and let live.
        Of course hindsight is so 20-20. Then, to compound matters by acting as if above all that stuff about dealing with the law…

      • There are people who do things with a gun they wouldn’t do without. These are the people who end up in the news or in handcuffs.

  5. Good riddance. If he had time to get his pistol out of the glove box and load it, he had time to get in the car and leave. All rights come with responsibilities, and he failed to act responsibly. As my old man would say, discretion is the better part of valor.

  6. I like how it’s only the media and gun control advocates are trying to tie this case to the Zimmerman one… because they don’t understand evidence. All they know is “non-cop with gun… dead young person… black… racist murderer!”

    So this guy doesn’t have lots of gun folks rushing to defend him just because he’s a white guy with a gun… but there are plenty of people who will pronounce him guilty for that fact.

    • Where are all the celebrities, black civil tights blowhards, and all the college profs that said it was free hunting on young black males after the Zimmerman verdict? If that was true, Dunn should have walked, but instead, the system worked again and Dunn will be rightfully going away for a long long time.

      • Just as testimony showed that Martin circled back towards Zimmerman having already reached his father’s back door, so in this case testimony indicated Dunn circled back to the SUV after retrieving his pistol from his glove box. Dunn did, really, something very much like what Martin did. They both were hot to engage people whose behavior they did not like. Is this not the case?

    • a high capacity pizza with so many features such as pepperoni, sausage, olives, and sardines. with that many features, he probably had to go through a 30 minute waiting period.

    • I’m with you man, Pizza is like bacon, (a few threads ago) A man has got to have his pizza, especially if it’s pepperoni!

    • Macho fella like that, had to be all meat. I like to think that gunning somebody down would totally ruin my appetite, but who knows. I don’t presume to understand what that must be like.

      • The one time I shot someone, it was a home invader and I shot him in the tum with a crossbow.

        He was alive when taken away, but I didn’t know if he’d stay that way. Turns out he did.

        I did not eat that night, although I did drink coffee. The next day I was alright.

        Never did get the bolt back, though. :/

  7. Many wonder why this case received such extensive publicity. I skip right by that question, happy that an example of doing everything wrong has been highlighted.

    Whatever the truth is, we know he returned to get his gun. We know from his own testimony that he wasn’t sure whether he saw “a shotgun or a stick in the car.” We know from his girlfriend’s testimony that he’d had “three or four” rum-and-colas” shortly before. We know that if he had one target he feared, somebody with “a shotgun or a stick,” that he either wasn’t aiming at that person or he had a horrific lack of pistol-shooting skills. We know that he returned his pistol to the glove compartment before pulling away, showing that he was no longer afraid of the remaining young men in the SUV. We know he didn’t call 911 as soon as he reached a point of safety from his perspective.

    So those carrying handguns shouldn’t play junior policeman about noise violations, shouldn’t return to trouble once they’ve moved away from it, should not mix guns and alcohol, should not practice spray-and-pray as if it provided a defense, should learn to shoot with reasonable accuracy under pressure, and should call 911 as soon as it is safe to do so.

    People will say they don’t need reminders. I say that a reminder doesn’t hurt.

  8. good. maybe now anti gun people will realize that when the evidence is against you, we potg like to see justice served. Zimmerman just didn’t have evidence against him.

    • Zimmerman shouldn’t have been tried for murder…..manslaughter maybe since he caused the incident but murder was a biiiiiiiiiiiig stretch.

  9. I’ve had a CCW permit for over 15 years and carry every day. Never had to pull gun. I also carry a 3″ Kershaw knife in my pocket. I have had to pull the knife once. Downtown Atlanta by GA Tech and 8 thugs started with “yo where’s the money you owe me” &”hey man how about you give me some cash” I ignored it until they they were to close behind me. Flipped out the knife by my side and said I’m sorry I don’t have any money to give right now. They stopped and walked away. My point is you don’t have to go to pulling a gun in bad situations. Keep your distance and try to diffuse situations with a knife, pepper spray, taser, etc. Most criminal thugs don’t waste there time on someone who shows they aren’t afraid to defend themselves. At the end of the day they are cowards with big mouths.

      • Not necessarily. The other 3 may scatter when they see holes in their 5 cohorts. Just saying, we will never know for certain, will we?

    • There’s nothing wrong with knives for self-defense, but it’s still considered a lethal weapon, and rightfully so. So it’s not like you were threatening a lesser level of force than if you had presented your firearm.

      • in some cases, being threatened with a knife would scare me more. a knife wound (especially a “slashing” one) can cause some pretty horrific results.

    • I’d have lifted my shirt up over my EDC, placed my hand on it and otherwise done the same as you. It probably doesn’t hurt to remind these thugs that some of us carry and the next guy might be a bit more trigger happy than you are.

  10. I agree with the author. As common sense and most in LE will say… the easiest way to tell if a shooting is justified is this… did the shooter call the police and wait on the scene.

    • GW; You sound like those people that keep insisting that George Zimmerman was guilty of murder despite of all evidence to the contrary.

      Don’t sound like one of those people; because you are either blinded by your own prejudice; or your a troll that is simply trying to make gun owners look like you by association.

    • only if by “public service” you mean “lends support to people who want to return to restrictive CCW laws.”

    • To be as crass, and indeed if he provided a service, a one to one ratio is pretty bad.
      Now we have to carry his ass for now till his death in prison. That is not a service.
      Beside the point that there is no evidence that the sticks and stones teenager was a threat that couldn’t be avoided.
      At the very least, Zimmerman had a bashed head, but if you want to shoot, there will be some questions later and the risk to your life that has to be assessed includes the legal one.
      I have won all the gunfights that I have avoided.
      Dunn lost the one where no one fired at him. Hmmmmm.

  11. What an irresponsible idiot! Total lack of situational awareness, leading to really, really bad actions. Another friggin idiot for us to pay for with our tax dollars while he is in prison. And, a black mark on all of us who carry responsibly – the media will capitalize on this crap and lump US in with him. Bet on it. Hope he enjoys all the sex he’ll get in general population from some really ticked off black guys…,serves him right. Friggin moron!

    • ..Well, that’s why I simply DO NOT TRUST anyone who carries…Just the idea of all that power may be too tempting to some moron, like Dunn…Problem is…there is no way of knowing just who the next “Dunn or Zimmerman” might be!!—So I’d like all of you gun-toting “wyatt earp” types to stay the hell away from me and my family!—Thank you very much!

      • Frank, love to comply. Need to work out a system by which we can identify you and your family so we gun toters can stay away. Something simple. Maybe a sign on your car and house and your families clothes. No Guns Allowed or something simple like that.

      • “Well, that’s why I simply DO NOT TRUST anyone who carries…Just the idea of all that power may be too tempting to some moron”

        Sounds like classic projection to me. You think “all that power may be too tempting to some moron” because deep down you know that “all that power” would likely be too tempting for you. Based on your comments in this post (the only comments you’ve ever left on this site, btw), I’d say that projection is a pretty fair diagnosis for you. You dropped nearly two dozen comments in here in the space of a half hour, most of which demonstrate barely (if at all) contained rage, with namecalling, and ALL CAPS, and many places where in your zeal you even attacked those that agree with you.

        “…there is no way of knowing just who the next “Dunn or Zimmerman” might be!!”

        Dunn and Zimmerman were two completely different circumstances. Zimmerman was attacked and defended himself. Dunn did so many things wrong that it’s easier to count the things he did right. I’m not sure there are any.

        “So I’d like all of you gun-toting “wyatt earp” types to stay the hell away from me and my family!”

        Concealed means concealed. I’m standing in line next to you at the grocery store, or sitting next to you in the movie theatre, or (very likely) I’m the guy you just flipped off in traffic, but I didn’t shoot you, because I can control my anger, unlike you (clearly).

  12. I question Dunn’s defense team. Why wasn’t a change of venue requested in order to increase the odds of selecting an all-white jury? If I were his lawyer, that would have been my first move. Instead, the jury was diverse and look at the outcome. It’s a travesty.

    • Nope, he got exactly what he deserved. He started the fight, he left and returned to the fight, he didn’t call the police afterwards. He showed poor judgment at every single step.

      As far as a change of venue, I don’t think it was warranted. This case really did not get that much press that it would be impossible to empanel an unbiased local jury.

        • I absolutely believe he walked over and said “Turn that shit music down” or some variation on that. I really don’t think them being black had much if anything to do with it. I believe it because I’ve seen people do it. I believe it because I’ve done it, though it was in my apartment parking lot, not a gas station, and I knocked politely on the window, I wasn’t rude. (They apologized and turned it down, said they didn’t realize how much the bass traveled into the surrounding homes.)

        • Larry, who cares? He had time to leave without anything more than hard words and a bruised ego. Would you also defend the retired cop who murdered a man in a theater for texting? Both killers clearly had rage issues and are guilty as hell. Both had the opportunity to take the high road and leave the area. Both exemplify FAIL.

        • How do you know they were hoodlums, they may have just been four young males listening to music and shooting the sh*t causing no harm. Yes maybe they should have turned down the music, but when he walked away he could have left. This dirtbag instead went back to his vehicle got his weapon from the glovebox, loaded it then went ballistic on them. This guy could not have made many worse decisions if he tried.

        • Larry, i’ve gone out of my house at 3 am and talked to the guys in the street with the boom boom music going. I’m going to let you in on a little secret here when dealing with potentially dangerous groups of young men in public places. It’s not about how well you’re armed.

          Predators have an aura about them. Either you’re a predator or not. Those groups of young men know how to tell a predator from prey. I’m still here and undamaged. i must not be prey.

        • Exactly. the word is “fool”. As Solomon said, “…stripes are prepared for the backs of fools.”
          His blood alcohol level at the time may account for some of the foolishness, but nobody got him that way but himself.

        • @Matt in FL,

          Testimonies here:

          indicate that Dunn was polite at first stating “Turn it down I can’t hear myself think.” (confirmed by both parties) Then Davis flipped out told the driver to turn the music back up and started arguing with Dunn. However, no matter what Davis said it doesn’t give Dunn the right to start shooting.

      • This guy is a liberal troll who is trying to paint all gun owners are racist trigger happy apes. Don’t reply to his trolling.

      • Don’t really see any politics there, so he might be a conservative or centrist troll.

        Definitely a troll, though.

        Gun-grabbing trolls come in all political flavours, although I’ll grant that the leftie-grabber-trolls are the more common variety.

    • You’ve handled a lot of cases Larry? Maybe you noticed George Zimmerman’s jury was also diverse, but managed to listen to and evaluate the evidence? And about this place you refer to where juries have no diversity? Do you think diverse juries cannot produce just verdicts? There’s a policy on this site which forbids needless name calling. If I called you, for example, a gutless troll trying to incite racially-biased comments but doing so in a way that reveals you’re a soft-brained left-wing knuckle walker, my comment could be seen as inappropriate. I have no intention of calling you anything but Larry.

    • When someone refers to the ‘hood when speaking to me, I gently inform them that in my lexicon a hood is either something to wear or someone to avoid.

  13. From what I understood watching the trial Dunn never called police or even his federal leo friend. His friend called him to ask him out to dinner that night. The police found Dunn because a witness got his plate number. In my mind the fact that he never called law enforcement even after he was definitely in a safe area is a clear red flag. Also why would he leave his gun in the car if, as he said, he was still afraid they were coming to get him at his hotel room? Plus why does his fiance not recall him ever telling her he had a gun even when he insists he told her several times before the police found him? I didn’t really see much testimony corroborating anything he had to say. Seems to me that he made a poor decision and tried to get away with it by not telling anyone. Unfortunately for him the long arm of the law found him pretty quick so he had to come up with the 4 inches of barrel story.

  14. “Perhaps the fact that he left the scene after the shooting, drove home and ordered a pizza rather than calling 911 played a part in the jury’s decision.”

    That, and the li’l factoid that firing four shots into a retreating vehicle isn’t done “in fear for ones life.”

    Perhaps in good public spirit he attempted to hit the sound system, so as to preempt future conflict at another convenience store?

    Or perhaps he should spend a few centuries in a concrete box making special friends with Bubba the Weightlifter.

  15. Not certain why all the “he’s guilty and justice was served” posts.

    He’s guilty and there was a mistrial. At least, that’s my take.

    Hopefully at the next trial, justice will indeed be served – and not on a bed of sprouts.

    • A mistrial was declared only as to the first count, murder in the first degree. The 3 counts of attempted murder in the second degree and the discharge of a firearm count all stand, subject of course to appeal by the defendant.

      • Ahh… Differing meanings. In other words, the jury was hung on one count, which was then dismissed, but the other counts held up. The trial was a success.

        Typically a mistrial is a mistrial. I blame the original author.

    • Found guilty on several counts of attempted murder, hung jury on premeditated murder… not terribly unreasonable. Premeditation can be tough to prove.

      • Very “unreasonable”—since there was no gun, and no personal threat, just this ass holes bullshit story, that no one else could collaborate!!!

  16. Aww. another racist down.another 300 million to go. gz will pay for his murder eventually.i sure he will pull his gun in the future.hopefully with different results.

    • When the other 300 million racists are gone, tony, then you and the remaining 13,909,999 million “non-racists” will have to find something else to accuse each other of being prejudice about. Tragic reality of lacking love!

    • …COUNT ON IT!!! —–If you live in Florida, and you are a black person…you need to ARM YOUR SELF, NOW!!!— And shoot first, then ask questions later….

  17. I’ve been in a similar situation MANY times. It’s quite common to hear the brothers playing their crap at ear splitting decibels. I assume they’re armed. Dunn had zero street smarts. Good luck with the grownup brothers in prison Mr. Dunn…you’ll need it(without your gun).

    • Playing loud music does NOT mean that you are “armed”—WHAT A CROCK OF BULL SHIT!!!! You are just another racist!

      • I assume everyone is armed. It engenders respect. Not that I was disrespectful back before I started going on that assumption.

        You should probably learn how to not use the “racist” card quite so much on anyone who disagrees with you. It kinda loses its effect after you say it for the 10th time.

  18. If I shot everybody who played their music too loud, there wouldn’t be anyone in MA under the age of 25 still alive in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

  19. While excessively loud music may be an assault on the hearing and pose a risk of hearing loss, bottom line is you don’t pull a pistol and shoot-up a car full of young men just because they refused to turn down their car stereo and said some unkind things to you to boot.
    Too bad the Jury deadlocked on the First Degree Murder charge, but understandable. Now the Florida taxpayers have to pay to retry this person, unless he gets the full sixty years and the DA (sensibly) figures that’s sufficient. Dunn may receive further punishment in prison from others belonging to the same racial group as the kid he killed. Might be worse than a longer prison sentence and First Degree Murder Conviction…much worse.
    All goes to remind us what a serious responsibility carrying a gun in public is and how you must be a better person because of it.

  20. In cases like this, I have to ask myself: what would have been the result had the defendant not had a gun? With GZ I am not sure but think it could have resulted in serious bodily injury or death for him. With this guy… I bet he never would have rolled his window down.

  21. This story is a textbook case of why, when you are carrying, you do ANYTHING YOU HAVE TO DO to avoid any sort of confrontation where you may be tempted to bring your gun into play.

    He should never have asked anyone to “turn down the music” … don’t like how loud it is? Drive away. Leave.

    It is ONLY when your life is absolutely at risk that you even think of unholstering.

    This idiot failed, totally, and is now paying the price.

    • ^this, plus PTM’s other comments.
      Not sure why Dunn was expecting the kids to say “my bad,” and to turn down the music.

  22. FL overcharged again. I’m not sure how they were going to prove 1st degree murder with this being more of a heat of the moment crime. I;m guessing that’s why the state kept harping on his thug music statement to show pre malice.

    Should have went 2nd degree, probably would have got that too.

    • Because the asshole, took the “time” contemplate retrieving his gun, then did so. then un-holstered it, then cocked it, then pointed it, then shot…then paused, then shot again,…then paused, then shot a third time……There is plenty of evidence which supports the the prosecutions theory…Just a faction on the jury that was too scared and too racist to see it…

  23. He did not call the cops because his BAL probably exceeded the legal driving limit so he was in a squeeze.
    Impaired judgement seems to rear up when drunk.

  24. As others have mentioned… what. an. idiot.

    Dunn is lucky he didn’t get murder 1. Now, he gets to go to prison and spend time with nasty folks who not only play lots of loud “THUG MUSIC”, but will be ready to violate more than just his eardrums.

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