Sean Hannity has the exclusive interview with George Zimmerman. In his one-on-one, Zimmerman said he was reaching into his pants pocket for his phone when Trayon Martin hit him in the face, breaking Zimmerman’s nose. (Zimmerman said he normally kept his cell in his pants, but had put it in his jacket pocket that night.) This may explain why Martin hit Zimmerman in the first place; Martin may have thought Zimmerman was reaching for a gun and struck preemptively. In the rest of interview, Zimmerman remains relatively emotionless. Saying that his apology to the Martin family showed genuine compassion. Although Hannity leads Zimmerman like a seeing eye dog, if Zimmerman’s testimony to the jury is as compelling as it was tonight, he’ll walk on murder two.
Trayvon was a thug that was asking for trouble. The only problem for him is that he tangled with a guy who excercised his 2nd amendment rights. I dont think anyone deserves to die but I also dont blame Zimmerman for protecting his own life.
What maks “tray” a thug? Walking home from a store talking on the phone minding your own business makes you a thug? Did you know trayvon personally?
Being a thug makes him a thug! Let me guess you knew him?
Your response said it all buddy, i can tell you are a very intelligent man.
My response just makes it evident that I dont have to answer to you chief. Only thugs attack without provocation so until you can prove otherwise the words are already written. Dont worry about if I know him because I can bet you have no clue what he was about. Therefore just like you I base my opinion on what I read. So you do your thing Ill do mine
Someone following you in their car, then following you on foot and asking “what are you doing here?” and reaching into their jacket isn’t provocation? At all?
Calling Trayvon a thug is just as obnoxious as the folks who automatically jumped to the conclusion that Zimmerman was a racist hothead… sometimes two normal people can meet at the wrong time in the wrong context and lead to tragedy.
I like how you call him Tray like you were one of his boys from the block, did you smoke dope and drink your 40’s with him? Give me a break already
I called him “tray” just for you John .. It took you long enough to comment on it.
Well i guess it didn’t send the first time but I appreciate the gesture
Look up his Facebook (though it may have been sanitized by now) and his school record. He was not the sweet innocent little child apologists like you want to make him out to be. The bottom line is that he tried to kill a man to show how tough he is and he got a nice wooden bed as a reward.
What does his fb page have to do with him walking home from the store? He was 17.. there isnt one thing you did when u were under 18 that you regret? that was stupid? come on man. being suspended from school and taking a silly picture on fb make you deserving of death by a rent-a-cop? On job applications are any questions of high school detentions or suspentions anywhere on the form?
@Mark
I may regret things I did back then, but I never tried to murder someone just for looking at me. His facebook page is full of comments about doing drugs (and how to make them, two of the ingredients for his favorite type being the same skittles and beverage he had on him when he was shot, not to mention that his FB messages had a conversation with a friend THAT DAY about buying them to make drugs) as well as him dressing like a thug and making racist comments and such.
Why do you keep defending some punk who tried to murder someone just to act tough? You sound like the kind of person who would argue that a girl deserved to be raped for wearing a low cut shirt.
Toten,
Really he was on “Lean” cough syrup when he “attacked” GZ? Oh wait, he wasn’t, they would have found the codeine in his system. He had some nano-grams of pot in his system from a couple of weeks before the incident. Stop foaming at the mouth.
You mean besides suckerpunching someone for daring to “follow” him?
May you one day have the pleasure of meeting such a person.
Purple Drank. Skittles, cough syrup and Watermelon iced tea.
What? Have you lost all touch with reality? Trayvon was followed, he didn’t do the following. He by all appearances did his best to avoid Zimmerman. What planet do you come from?
How is punching someone in the face doing your best to avoid him? I know our standards have fallen and everyone is a winner and all but still, I think he could have done better in avoiding Zimmerman.
You know our laws aren’t based on ghetto rules. It is OK to look at someone. It’s the laws that matter, not your version of the way things work on the street.
If you start a fight, then end up on the losing side of things, claiming self-defense is a thin, thin thread to hang by.
If I follow a police officer after he heads home for the day, shadowing him slowly as he walks down the street in plainclothes, then get out of my truck and chase him on foot, and he punches me when I confront him? How am I not an [expletive deleted]?
You can’t start a confrontation and then claim self-defense when you’re on the losing end of it. Manslaughter, maybe. But not self-defense.
@Mark
Please, provide evidence that GZ started a fight or a confrontation. Following a person is 100% legal and if you followed a cop through a neighborhood and the cop assaulted you, you’d be justified in shooting him as well.
Walking down a public street, now enough provocation to justify punching someone in the face.
Welcome to the world.
Should Zimmerman gotten out of his car? Probably not. Is there any way Zimmerman could have caught Trayvon if Trayvon actually ran away? Probably not. Is there a chance that Zimmerman shot Trayvon before Trayvon punched him? Nope. And that’s where the case lies. All the preceding information doesn’t matter if Trayvon punched first and continued hitting Zimmerman after he was on the ground. If Zimmerman didn’t get out of his car Trayvon wouldn’t be dead. If Trayvon didn’t get suspended from school, he wouldn’t be dead either. Neither one of those is really relevant to if Zimmerman used self defense though.
Scott thats the entire point what coward claims self defense after initiating the conformation. What man confronts another man doing no seen harm to anyone or anything on a dark rainy night that isn’t looking for trouble. I played this out in my head as if This were me and before Zimmerman got with 5 feet of me asking who i am and where im from my gun would of been drawn.. And so be it if I got arrested for pulling my gun id have my day in court and still be breathing.
Jesus Christ already!! He was attacked, no matter what he did rather it be follow him or got out of his car whatever he was still attacked therefore either way you want to look at it self defense is still legitimately claimed here. No matter if Trayvon was minding his own business or not he never had the right to attack GZ. Im not saying I agree with what went down but the bottom line is everyone is going to take a side and so be it you have that right
So the fact that Zimmerman picked a confrontation with a guy who was minding his own business and then killed same guy defending himself with his fists by pulling a gun is okay with you? Is losing a fight by conventional means reason an acceptable reason to kill a person?
If I were walking home from the store and were followed and then confronted for no (you know, certainly not racial or dress related) reason, I might be inclined to throw the first punch, too.
And so would all of you.
@Swarf
Zimmerman didn’t pick a confrontation – your beloved Trayvon did. Zimmerman neither talked to or touched Trayvon; Trayvon assaulted him without provocation. Zimmerman wasn’t “losing a fight”, Trayvon was bashing his head into the pavement TRYING to kill him – again, without provocation. That’s full grounds for self defense lethal force in any state.
If you assaulted someone just for walking down the street behind you, then you would be guilty of assault and they could legally kill you if they felt you were putting their life in danger.
Just because you’re irrational and feel the need to act tough and show how “cool” you are, doesn’t mean that the rest of us would randomly assault someone.
@toten considering no one on this site was there that night and we only have the account of one of the two men that were involved. What a re the chances zimmerman is saying that he didnt touch trayvon to save his butt? the fact that he left his car with his gun is enough to make a sane person assume he was talking trash and put hands on trayvon first. He could of watched from the car. If tryavon was white i wonder how many of you would be on zimmermans side still(fyi im a 32 year old white male)? And i guess the fact that we all now know zimmerman is a pervert for touching his cousin no ones apperent view on his character has seemed to change along with the fact he lied about his income..smh
Yeah slamming his head into the concrete and sucker punching is totally an avoidance technique! Well his avoidance methods got him a 6ft deep room in the dirt, hope nobody took notes.
And when you get SWATed, people will say the same thing.
Be honest. Who wouldn’t have done the same in that teenager’s situation? Creepy guy who isn’t a policeman or in uniform following you, then chasing after you – what legitimate right do you have to not defend yourself?
We can monday-morning quarterback it all day long, but in the place of either of them, we might have done exactly the same things.
@Mark
I don’t know a single person who would randomly assault someone just for walking around a neighborhood at night. Even if you think they are following you, a rational person will run and GTFO of there, not approach them and start a fight.
I see you ending up like Trayvon someday because your ego won’t let you walk away from someone “disrespecting you”.
My response just makes it evident that I dont have to answer to you chief. Only thugs attack without provocation so until you can prove otherwise the words are already written. Dont worry about if I know him because I can bet you have no clue what he was about. Therefore just like you I base my opinion on what I read.
You still don’t get it? You weren’t there! So I’m sure you wouldent know the first words that came out of the wanna be cop, tough guy Zimmerman’s mouth… So who are you to say zimmerman was attacked w/o provocation? Any reasonable person looks at this case and see’s Zimmerman to blame. He called and reported a kid walking home? Trayvon wasnt in the act of breaking in someone’s home or car. Zimmerman had no to right to approach him and really had no viable reason to call 911 in the first place. Butreading ur post you sound like you may have not made the force also..
It doesnt matter if I were there or not, you werent either so you have absolutely nothing more or less to say than I do.
I read and watch the news as im sure you do so you can take your view and I will take mine. If you want to make people think its ok to sucker punch a man and slam his head into the ground all because a man is following him then go ahead, its views like this that are helping our once great nation crumble around us.
John you keep ranting about how Trayvon sucker punched Zimmerman unprovoked – I hope you submit your name to the police as soon as possible because obviously you were there and have first hand evidence of how it all went down that nobody else in the world has right now. Seriously – YOU could get you hero Zimmerman off the hook!
Hey HMMMMMMM You have no clue what you are talking about, I watch the news just like you and that little ghetto bird jumped him for walking near him. Wow that big scary man was walking towards him lets react just like a punk ass ghetto boy would do!! Shut up already.
JOHN I think you might win today’s “Armed Intelligentsia” award – congratulations! Don’t stop now though, keep running your ignorant mouth about things you know nothing about because totenglocke or tdiinva could still come out with an even more ignorant post than yours and sweep the title!
“I dont think anyone deserves to die”
Unfortunately, I think some people do deserve to die. BTW, I’m not making any reference to the TM-GZ case with my previous statement.
Have to disagree, Robert. Thugs like Trayvon never think their victims might be armed. Look at the shooting at the internet cafe’ in Ocala. If ANY place will have an armed citizen, it’s a gathering of elderly people in Florida. Yet they still tried to rob the place.
Trayvon Martin sucker punched GZ, just as GZ said. No consideration was given to him having a gun. Nobody attacks someone they THINK might have a gun, IMHO.
BOOM!
Whether or not Trayvon thought George was armed, this opens up a whole new narrative against concealed carry. I predict they will now present us with this catch 22 argument: Either George Zimmerman was a “concealed carry murderer” and we can expect more of them with liberalized carry laws, or Trayvon Martin felt threatened by the possibility of a concealed weapon, and we can expect more fights to start because there will be a higher possibility that each citizen is armed. I’m not saying that these are good arguments, but I’m predicting that this interview will spark this argument to come up.
it’s been my life long observation that the people who favor gun control work at it with or without these events.they have the mindset that people are criminal and must be controlled and all must be punished for the actions of one.
Trayvon sucker punched a guy that was following him, an older man who didn’t make his intentions clear, didn’t wear a uniform, etc. What would you have done in his place?
Sucker punched is your key word! Thank you
Do you think there is a law on the book that says it’s OK to use violence if you think someone is following you? What planet do you come from? Chicago?
Yup. Pretty sure you can if you are in ‘reasonable fear of your life’. Guy following you with a gun sounds just like that.
@Mark Smith at 23:50:
How did TM know GZ had a gun? Why didn’t TM just run the few hundred feet to his house?
Mark, if you sucker punched this guy that was following you, no uniform, for no reason you could understand, would you then run, or jump on him and start piling it on?
I think I would have walked the 80 FEET to my dad’s townhome. But Saint Skittles didn’t do that. He had to keep it real and assault George Zimmerman for daring to question him.
sensible move would have been to run like a striped ass ape. there’s been times when i was armed and still ran like a track star. it event is different. but if i was an unarmed 17 yo on a dark street i would make at least 1 assumption, that the strange man was armed, and boogie. tray bought into the thug life bs that’s being fed to these kids and he was never equipped to do anything but be a target. if not gz, then someone else, most likely black, would have got him.
young healthy high school athlete, trayvon. pudgy 28 yo gz, not good enough to be a cop though he’s tried. dark housing area on a rainy night. if trayvon was attempting to lose gz it would have happened. the cops would have needed manpower and maybe dogs or choppers to have caught him. hitting a moving target at night with a rifle is difficult, near impossible with a pistol. tray wasn’t trying to get away. enough stupid going around that night for 10 men. tray removed himself from the gene pool. the only bullet wound on tray was in his front, he wasn’t trying to escape. and he had a cell phone. did he call for help. no.
If Martin had a gun, and had killed Zimmerman after being followed, confronted at arms length, and then fearing for his life when Zimmerman reached for a gun. Would you all be defending Zimmerman at this time?
If that had happened then it never wouldve been nationally recognized because the media only wants to point it out when a black person is the victim so I guess we wouldnt be huh
Thats a terrible example Bruce because either way Trayvon would be made to be the thug so….
I think its sad that a grown man had to use a weapon on an unarmed 17 year old. It really shows how tough he is. If he was ever properly trained to carry a weapon he shouldve known that was not to time to pull it out.
So, getting your head bashed against a concrete sidewalk is not the time to defend your life? What does ‘proper training’ teach you to do when someone is straddling you? Does one need to be a martial arts expert prior to becoming a firearms expert?
Bruce if that were the case we wouldent be supporting Zimmerman becuase that is what the law was put in place for. It’s the “stand your ground law” not the “mess with people and stand your ground law”. And if anyone on this site actually likes or loves guns they should be upset at zimmerman becuase now several states are thinking about overturning this law.
There are so many other ways this could’ve ended, I hate that Zimmerman gave all the anti-gun liberals more fuel for their fire. I really hate how they look at things like these as instances but unfortunately its always going to be a never ending story!
This is a simple self-defense case, not a stand your ground case.
No we wouldn’t. But that’s not even close to what happened. GZ only reached for his gun after TM was sitting on his chest pounding his head on the ground.
Well GZ was lucky it wasn’t me waring a hoodie. Otherwise this throat would be ripped out and I would have to explain quickly how I defended myself against an armed assailant. Yup that pretty much sums up GZ’s idiocy. He left his car to follow or confront Trayvon. No one can say for sure exactly what happened. Let’s just say GZ was a used car salesmen. Would you trust a word of a used car salesman? Thought not….
He was tactically out of his element, and screwed up. Now we will get leaked stories all over the place and still there will be no truth. Show me the coroners report and the CSI conclusions for angle of shot, who was on top of whom etc. Only then can we deduce what happened.
I bet you would lol would you use a HALO move on him haha give me a break
Let’s just say GZ was a used car salesmen. Would you trust a word of a used car salesman?
Oooh, I know this one! Zimmerman is also half-hispanic, and you wouldn’t trust the word of a hispanic, would you? Right?
Bigotry just makes you look bad, not GZ.
Hey Totenglocke its nice to see someone with a little bit of sense weigh in man.
I think you might actually be retarded…….
This is a sad situation for sure, and I don’t think it really needed to happen. I can’t say for sure what I would have done in the same situation since I wasn’t there, but I do think we, as armed citizens, have an obligation to use our brains to avoid having to shoot whenever possible. Pulling the trigger should always be the last option. Granted, sometimes it’s the only option, but I personally think it’s too important of a responsibility to go looking for trouble. I suspect that’s what GZ was doing.
The facts as I see them:
GZ was doing his job as a neighborhood watch volunteer. That gave him the ‘right’ to be on the lookout in his neighborhood. Trayvon was a new face and he was doing some things that would be worthy of rousing the suspicion of a neighborhood watch person. Trayvon was unknown to GZ and he was ‘allegedly’ walking between houses and looking in parked cars. If I was in the same situation I probably would have called it in. It’s noteworthy that GZ called the non-emergency line to the cops.
Though I don’t know him, GZ appears to be a ‘wannabe’ person of authority. I believe I read somewhere that Neighborhood Watch rules prohibit their volunteers from carrying a gun while on patrol. While I fully support carrying for self defense, I personally wouldn’t have joined NW if I thought my security could be at risk. (Using the brain here). GZ decided to carry a gun while on patrol. That’s troubling to me.
When the dispatcher told him to stop following Trayvon, that wouldn’t necessarily been the ending for me. I probably would have followed in my car, but from an increased distance. I wouldn’t have put myself in a position to come in direct contact. Again, brains before bullets.
In the end though, from what little I know, it appears that GZ broke off contact and TM re-initiated it and attacked GZ. That meets the statutory standard for immunity from prosecution under the SYG law. I think this will be over at the first hearing. If he had a legit reason to fire, he can’t be prosecuted.
If it does end up going to trial, there’s little chance he’ll be convicted. He’s hopelessly overcharged and he flat out doesn’t meet the requirements for a 2nd degree murder conviction. You’re not going to get 12 jurors to agree to convict.
Here’s an interesting thought though. The prosecutor, who was brought in for the sole reason of taking GZ to trial, has probably purposefully charged him with a crime he couldn’t possibly be convicted of. The charges are more for show and to placate the racist charges. The DA can say she threw the book at him, but GZ was always going to walk. I would have had more faith in the sincerity of the prosecution if he’d been charged with manslaughter. A manslaughter conviction would be much more likely than a 2nd degree murder one. I think the DA knows it was a legit shoot and is under political pressure to put on a show trial anyway.
People should STFU about something they haven’t a clue about.
Not one comment posted has shown that the commenter knew anything about this case.
Zimmerman got out to figure out where he was, got told to stop following him, he says ok(not the BS MSM that he kept following him) and then went back to his car and was confronted by Martin. Either the guy is psychic, or thats the truth, there is no way he would of ever figured when telling the police what happened that there would even such stupidity about him following him. The kid ran, was just a good boy football player, he should of gotten away from Zimmerman.
Yeah the kid ran and Zimmermans bullets are like boomerangs because they miraculously hit him in the front. Give me a break already, not that I agree with what happened, Trayvon still attacked Zimmerman FLAME DELETED
your words are wise buddhakat. bruce, if trayvon had been packing and won the gunfight i think that would have brought up a whole nother problem. tray was 17, for him to be packing on the street would have caused him a whole other set of problems. and if gz had won the shootout he’d probably be recognised as some kind of hero. as i said before, there was a lot of stupid out that night.
I doubt it. My crazy brother used to fly off the handle and try to kick my ass when I got the phone out to call the cops. Every time.
GZ: “It was God’s Plan”
Ummm, call me one of those “crazy” Christians, but I don’t think you can pass the buck off on this one buddy. If you pulled the trigger, you own the responsibility for your own actions. Not God.
So, G, you’re playing the good old hypocritical Christian part?
If something good happens, God made it happen and you should worship him. If something bad happens, God had no control over it and it’s your evil actions that caused it and you should be punished.
Either God is all powerful and in control of everything or he’s not. You can’t pick and choose which things are decided by humans and which are decided by God.
when was the last time you saw an athlete blame God for losing a game? They praise him all the time after a win, but stay mum after they lose. Don’t want to offend the big guy, I guess, so He can help win the next one.
Ok lets simplify this, it is a case like many others in the country only real difference is the gap in race difference. It is an election year, all the gun grabbers are looking for a reason to limit civilian ownership, the only reason this is blown out of proportion is that the race card is or was being played to alter demographics and allow for stricter gun laws. The truth of the matter is that justifying your location is a given right and should not be afraid to do so, especially in an area posted that a neighborhood watch is in the area. a simple explanation by trayvon on heading to a relatives in the area would have resulted in no more than a ride offer to his destination or GZ leaving him be. Both were wrong and a tragedy occurred end of story, should GZ face legal punishment sure but not like they are making it out, after all he reacted improperly to an attack. Negligent homicide or something similar would be justified, but so would civil litigation, depends on the rights and beliefs of the parties involved and no one else.
It is an election year, all the gun grabbers are looking for a reason to limit civilian ownership,
Only the stupid ones. The smart ones realize they’re outnumbered and will keep quiet so their preferred candidates won’t have to take an unpopular stand immediately before an election. Currently, the only way gun control is going to be advanced is via under-the-radar methods like new regulations imposed by an agency, not an act of Congress.
The smart gun-grabbers do not want Trayvon to become the face of their movement- he’s no Kennedy or MLK.
“if Zimmerman’s testimony to the jury is as compelling as it was tonight, he’ll walk on murder two.”
If GZ does walk free then I’m going to post my secret cornbread sage stuffing recipe. I’ve nicknamed it Ralph’s Favorite.
I love Mark over there, saying, “Come on, who of you wouldn’t sucker punch someone following you?” If I didn’t know him better, I’d call troll, but man…that just made my night.
As for the article and case itself, blah blah blah, how much longer is this farce of a case going to go on? Let the “justice system” figure out how best to appease all the special interest race groups and railroad a verdict and let’s get it over with. Once the manufactured rage of such reprehensible filth as Jackson and Sharpton has passed and they’ve made all the money they can off the case, maybe we can get back to watching the country burn in other ways.
As for the article and case itself, blah blah blah, how much longer is this farce of a case going to go on?
The cynic in me is saying “at least until November”.
If this case don’t workout I hope we can agree on
Making enough to pay any Judge Judy off
First thing I’m a do is free Zimmerman, go…
Defenders of Trayvon Martin:
Trayvon had THC in his blood. His was coming down from a high and his judgement was impaired. If he wasn’t under the influence I think Trayvon would have gone home but Trayvon, the aspiring criminal, decided he was a tough guy and punched out Zimmerman. Drugs make you do stupid things. Remember that when you advocate drug legalizaton.
Drugs make you do stupid things. Remember that when you advocate drug legalizaton.
Just like alcohol makes you do stupid things and should be illegal, right?
Drugs and alcohol don’t make you do anything. Sure, they lower inhibitions and such, but you still have the final say. The only thing you can claim is that someone who wishes they were tough and could fight might get drunk / stoned and stop being afraid of getting hurt and actually act on their impulses.
Besides, those who commit crimes while drunk / high will meet consequences – either prison or they end up in the ground like Trayvon. Just like you can’t blame a gun because some jerk decided to rob and murder people, you can’t blame drugs (another inanimate object) because of what some jerk decided to do.
You assume that because I state the obvious I am opposed to the legalization of at least some drugs like marijuana. Your assumption is wrong. Unlike most of the people expressing positive opinions on legalization expressed on TTAG I have a realistic view on what legalization means for criminal organizations and individual users. Legalization will no more be the end of criminal organizations than did the end of Prohibition lead to the elimiation of organizied crime in the US. I also understand that legalization will lead to more drug users who will be unable to hold down a job and therefore get the needed funds through criminal activity.
The amount of THC he had in his body at his time of death wasn’t enough to cause impairment. It’s like saying if you had a sixpack three days ago you would be drunk today.
The THC was in his blood as well as his urine. If it’s in your blood you are still under influence which means the use was fairly recent. Probably no more than 12 hours since you smoked.
You are twisting yourself into knots to avoid the obvious conclusion that someone who has been suspended from school as a suspected thief, using drugs and tagging (gang related activity); participated in an underground fight club, another gang related activity; and claimed to his cousinj to have a popped a school bus driver is a punk who would have no compunction in assaulting someone he didn’t like.
I hate to burst your bubble here, but THC, of all the things out there, doesn’t make people violent. Quite the opposite.
One of the main things that was preached in the CCW class that I took was that if you are carrying a gun you have to act differently than you would if you weren’t carrying. That means you have to do everything you can to avoid the possibility of confrontation. Zimmerman did NOT do this. I think he acted like a jackass and gave all of us who carry a bad name while at the same time showing everybody what not to do. That said, Martin played right into the stereotype of young black males being trouble. The argument that punching someone simply for following you is both dishonest and moronic. Those comments are nothing but bluster vomited onto this post by simpletons who will say anything to justify the questionable acts of others.
Zimmerman both could have and, more importantly, SHOULD have avoided the confrontation altogether by simply alerting police and removing himself from the situation. Martin could have avoided being killed by not acting like an ignorant gangsta’ and attacking Zimmerman, if that is truly what happened. At a minimum he could have questioned Zimmerman as to why he was being followed which surely would have resulted at some point in Martin telling Zimmerman where he was going and that he had business in the neighborhood. Instead he had to act “hard” and make it a fight which ended his own life and possibly ruined the life of another person.
I truly believe that both people acted foolishly.
That means you have to do everything you can to avoid the possibility of confrontation.
No, it doesn’t. You just can’t be the one to CAUSE a physical altercation. There is no law saying that you must put your tail between your legs and cave to the will of anyone who comes near you just because you have a CCW. That’s just something imagined by CCW holders who are terrified that standing up for themselves equals jail time.
Zimmerman both could have and, more importantly, SHOULD have avoided the confrontation altogether by simply alerting police and removing himself from the situation.
Zimmerman didn’t start the fight or even a conversation with him – he had NOTHING to do with the confrontation. He did nothing wrong by following a suspected criminal so that he could provide better information to the police.
Actually it does. There may be no law stating so, but a prosecutor is going to analyze every aspect of a confrontation and do his/her very best to burn you. So yes, in the real world, you do have to avoid confrontation when carrying a concealed firearm because after a shooting it is very likely that an attorney will be able to show not only that you could have avoided the shooting, but that you were looking for it. The truth means nothing in a court of law.
Also, anytime you follow a person in such a manner, whether you are right or wrong, you risk the possibility of confrontation. Period. That’s just basic common sense. Even indirect interaction can cause a negative response.
I’m not taking Martin’s side by any means and I think that he is the real bad guy here based on what has been prevented so far, but Zimmerman is far from a good example of a responsible concealed firearm carrier.
In the real world where most of us actually live, yes you do have to do everything you can to avoid confrontation when carrying a concealed firearm. There may not be a statute in stand your ground states saying so, but a prosecutor will try to use your every action against you to prove not only that you could have avoided shooting that person, but that you actually wanted to. Truth means nothing in a court of law. We’ve already seen some of this in this case. So, for those of us with common sense, we must do our best to avoid situations like this.
The fact that cannot be argued is this: Any interaction with a person, no matter how in direct, has the potential to cause a negative response from that person.
It really doesn’t matter if Zimmerman was doing the right thing as a neighborhood watch. It doesn’t matter that he didn’t initiate the fight with Martin. What matters is that he could have simply called the police and driven away.
I don’t think Zimmerman is the bad guy, I just don’t think he handled things very well. Based on what has been presented so far I feel that it was self defense, but the shooting didn’t need to even happen at all.
Further, I have zero sympathy for Martin. I hate that thug attitude and the trouble it causes. I won’t say that he deserved to die but I don’t fell sorry for him at all. There was no reason for physically attacking Zimmerman, especially as brutally as he did. I’m sure that if I was being beaten like that I would have shot him too.
You sure as hell have a moral obligation. Anytime you draw a weapon in public and fire you put society at risk. What if you miss and hit a little kid playing a block away? Firing should be a last resort. Carrying a gun in public means you’re also carrying a huge responsibility.
Let’s be clear, I’m absolutely sure I’m capable of pulling the trigger and taking a life if I have to. I’ve got lots of physical limitations, bad heart, bad lungs, bad spine, etc. so I’m not able to fight or run, but I can promise you, the very last thing I WANT to do is shoot another human being.
What would you do if you were carrying in the Walmart and a ‘gang’ started insulting you and one of them goes so far as to spit on you? Would you draw and fire or turn and walk away? I would walk away and be branded a coward. We can pollute this debate with hypothetical situations but it still doesn’t change the truth of it – this was avoidable.
“Zimmerman didn’t start the fight or even a conversation with him – he had NOTHING to do with the confrontation”
Looks like totenglocke is another person of interest for the Sanford PD, as he obviously witnessed first hand what happened and knows more about what happened that night than anybody else involved in the case, including the DA.
Seriously totenglocke, how about you put up your evidence that Zimmerman didn’t start the fight, or even the conversation, or shut up?
If someone is following me in a car matching my speed as I walk down the street. I turn the corner he turns the Corner, I stop he stops. I am thinking I am about to get shot for my wallet. If this person stops and gets out of his car, I am going to ask him what the F*^&K he is following me for. If he reaches in his pocket and I don’t hear his phone Ringing. I am going to Kick him in the nuts an beat him until I can find out what is in his Pocket or until he tells me why he is following me.
You People in your glass houses, in your very expense neighborhoods, have no idea the mind set in the other 75% of the Country.
I am going to Kick him in the nuts an beat him until I can find out what is in his Pocket or until he tells me why he is following me.
And odds are, you’ll be legally shot (and possibly killed) for your irrational violent actions.
But only after he beats the other guy half to death right? This case is such a mutt. This is the one case the CCW and the NRA crowd should have stayed away from. This is a damn PR nightmare.
I am sure this is going to upset you but I want you go look at the dynamic duo in the Ocala DGU video. Who are perps and what are they wearing. Now, imagine you are walking or driving though your neighborhood and you see someone who looks like the two perps. You know that there have been breakins and muggings in your communitywhere the perps look like the fellow walking eratically throught the neighborthood. How would you react?
Yea, much better to tell Zimmerman he should’ve let some punk murder him because a black life is more valuable than a half-white / half-hispanic life.
You can only make decisions based on the evidence at hand, at the time. To all appearances, Zimmerman thought Trayvon was up to no good. To all appearances, Trayvon thought Zimmerman was up to no good.
Zimmerman left his vehicle, we know that. Shouldn’t have done it. A teen is dead now. The teen didn’t have to die. The teen didn’t have a rap sheet.
Lethal force should only be a last resort. It was pretty much the first resort in this case. Zimmerman was in a tactically sound situation that he abandoned for… No good reason. A person died that didn’t have to die.
You can’t honestly defend Zimmerman. You can only hope that it wasn’t as bad as it sounds, that he was just a stupid fool that placed his own life at risk for nothing close to what should be worth it.
If I chase you down – will you be so understanding?
There you go I know someone would make my second point for me. If someone is following you at night in a car at walking speed as you walk around corners. They are going to Rob you, or do a drive by on you. There is now question about it. You people that live in the suburbs should not even be commenting on this issue. You live in you pretty little Neighborhoods, or out in the country. Like 75% of America you have no idea what normal people go through.
Here you go a girl goes to the door of her home to answer a Knock on the Door. It is 2 Guys with guns. They rap her at Gun point by the time it is over 10 Guys have rapped here and her little brother is forced to have sex with her. Did this happen in some African Blood Diamond Country…….. No this happened in Florida.
If you don’t live here an know what it really going on don’t comment. I think we are going to win the Most unsolved murders this year.
Oh and as for Politics Wake up none of you political officials care about you in the least bit. They would let demons out of hell and give them voting rights if it would get them reelected. They will never do what is needed to make this country strong again, because the votes needed to keep them in power and it would decrease their yearly income.
Uh, Vincent… I’m not sure how to break this to you, but that’s not what ‘normal people’ deal with. That kind of thing is pretty much confined to the ghetto, and maybe 10% of the people in this country have to deal with it.
There is a reason white Americans and black Americans have a vastly different perception of what things are like, and this is a big part of it. Move out of the ghetto and you’ll find out what life is like for ‘normal’ people. What you’re describing isn’t at all normal.
Not to mention the fact that he said that 75% of people don;t know what normal people deal with. Wouldn’t 3/4 of the population be the norm instead of the 1/4? I guess that’s an example of that ghetto learnin’!
Uh, don’t the majority of people in this country live in suburbs and rural areas? We may be spread out more than the city folk, but there’s more of us, (normal people), than the kooks in the big cities like NY, LA, Chicago, SF, etc.
Comments like this highlight how out of touch city folk actually are.
Where does the food come from? Why the store of course.
i’m pretty sure i would have taken the bullet to the head before i would have had sex with my sister. nobody in my family can be accused of being good looking. and i’m really not sure how well my junk would have worked, what with the guns and all. are you sure this happened or were you test driving your next letter to penthouse.
They will never do what is needed to make this country strong again, because they would loose the votes needed to keep them in power there by decrease their yearly income.
Whats wrong with you people? Police shoot people for doing things like zim did and then “reaching into thier waistband area”. Thats what armed criminals do. The police will say they “shot him because they thought the guy was going for a weapon. Martin had every reason to believe that this strange predator was “reaching for a weapon”.
That was enough provocation for Martin to try to keep zim from coming out with a weapon. If I had been Martin at that point, I would have drawn MY 45 and made zim poop his pants!
So you’re arguing that Zimmerman could have shot Trayvon when Trayvon reached to his waist band? You know, before Trayvon approached and attacked Zimmermn?
The lengths you people will go to to justify your stupid narrative are disgusting.
Martin was minding “his own business” and being followed by zim, when zim says Martin was reaching towards his waistband. There was no reason for zim to feel he was threatened and provoked as he was the one following Martin and not the other way around. It was zim that escalated the situation by getting out and following Martin and provoked everything.
Thats something that would have convinced me that he meant me “no good at all”.
The lengths you totally illogical idiots will go to to justify your insanity is disgusting!
Here’s a couple of tips for you: 1)When you have to lie to support your position you’re probably wrong. 2) Calling names makes you the idiot, not me.
“The lengths you totally illogical idiots will go to to justify your insanity is disgusting!”
Hear hear! It is truly saddening to read some of the comments on this board. Nobody knows what happened, or who started the actual altercation, but some like totenglocke state with CERTAINTY that Zimmerman not only didn’t start the fight, he didn’t even start the conversation! What is this loon basing that on? Perhaps Stormfront have some evidence that the Sanford PD, the DA, and even Zimmerman’s defense team don’t have?
Even ignoring the grey area of who started the actual fight the hypocrisy from many here is so thick you can spread it. Framed differently most of the hardcore Zimmerman supporters would be supporting Trayvon, who was stalked and killed while doing nothing wrong, but presumably because he is black they say differently this time. All these “real men” who on any other day would be pulling their pieces on somebody who was following them in a car, then on foot, at night, all of a sudden think it’s fine to harass people on the street with no authority or reason, and claim that they would roll over and ask the aggressor to rub their tummies for them. Such utter BS, and it says a lot about the racial bias of lots of the posters here, as if that wasn’t obvious enough.
The Cops do it all the time. Let’s not forget the facts Zimmerman got out of his car and approached Martin.
A police officer would have shot Zimmerman. ” The assailant approached me then reach into his waist band/ pocket so I drew may weapon and shot him.
Lets not forget Zimmerman’s own words as we discuss this.
There is no reason to follow a man at night as he walks around dark streets but, to Rob, kill or rap him, in southern Florida anyway.
No, Hmmmmmm,
That’s the point. No one knows what happened; that’s why you don’t try a person in the absence of evidence of his guilt. Those bringing the charges bear the burden of proving them.
The only evidence presented by those calling for Zimmerman’s blood in this case is their own presupposition of his guilt.
I am not calling for Zimmerman’s blood, in fact if you look at my posting history here you will see that at every opportunity I have stated that murder 2 is a stupid charge and that I think he will walk.
What I am saying, and which the frothing racists here disagree with, is that Zimmerman DOES have a charge to answer in the courtroom. Context is everything, and in this case you have a child walking home, at night, in a sketchy neighborhood, being stalked by a strange man in a car, and then that man gets out of his car to stalk him further, while armed. Frankly I do not believe for a moment that Trayvon approached Zimmerman, but I don’t KNOW that – that is for a jury to ascertain. Anyway the point is that any reasonable person would be fearful at that point, even to the point of throwing the first punch when finally approached by this strange, unidentified man.
Zimmerman made mistake, after mistake, after mistake, after mistake that night. Period. And the culmination of his mistakes was being put in the position where he killed a child walking home from the shop with some skittles. Period. I think murder 2 is not the crime he committed, but I sure as hell think he needs some kind of punishment, maybe as much as manslaughter. You don’t get to stalk somebody at night, armed, from your car and then CHOOSING to go on foot after them too and then claim the other person instigated you killing them, you just don’t.
No. Those are not the facts of the case.
Well that’s it then vermin – you win the debate with your amazingly well supported and referenced one line statement! Congratulations!
No. I win the argument because your argument is based on your ignorance of the facts.
Or, I guess you might actually know the facts of the case and have chosen to lie about them. Whichever.
All I know is the “no limit nigga” reached his limit.
All I know is the “no limit n i g g a” reached his limit.
Quoting Mark from somewhere up there:
“the fact that he left his car with his gun is enough to make a sane person assume he was talking trash and put hands on trayvon first.”
Really?
I, and thousands, if not millions of us leave our cars every day with our gun. They are called our “Every Day Carry” guns for a reason. The OFWG in the internet cafe left his car with his gun, but that’s different, right?
The only thing your comment would make a “sane person” think is that you have no idea what you’re talking about. (And they’d be right.)
I love you guys it shows you are prejudice. I get email everyday from this blog they are full of glorified shooting. You cannot tell me if someone follows you home in a car or as you walk slowly home. Stopping when you stop turning when you stop. Then gets out of his car yell what are you doing here. You would not have pulled that “Every Day Carry” To stop him from getting to close to you. If you did not Pull your “Every Day Carry” you definitely would have pulled it when you saw Zimmerman reaching in his waist band.
Jmama and Sparky Thanks for you honesty. You and everyone here knows, if you were Zim you would have shot Martin, and if you were Martin you would have shot Zim.
I’m sorry Vincent, I didn’t know you wanted to play too…
I can tell you I wouldn’t draw my EDC in the situation you provided because that would be a criminal offense; the same as what Trayvon did in his situation. Responding to a non-lethal threat with deadly force is a crime. Go back and read all the posts on this blog about people who drew and/or fired warning shots and are now in jail. So, sorry, BS on your post as well.
I can tell you that Zimmerman waited way longer than I would have to pull the trigger; he didn’t pull and shoot when he was getting his head banged on the concrete, he tried to “shimmy” down so his head wasn’t near the sidewalk. He didn’t shoot when Trayvon was smothering him, trying to silence him. He didn’t shoot until Trayvon saw the gun and told him he was going to die. Now if that’s not “in fear for your life,” I don’t know what is.
GZ showed massive restraint before he pulled the trigger.
You would not live long in Southern florida, Miami as specially,
but then again you do not live in same type of area. There is a reason Cops are always on trail for shooting innocent man with their wallet, or cell phone in their hands. “Better to be tried by 12 then to be carried by 6”. If you wait you will be dead. My Coworker got shot dead 2 nights ago. The Guy shot him as he was trying to run away, when he fell he stood over him and shot him in the head.
sorry for the loss of your coworker. he was running away when he got shot. so i can assume that the bullets hit him in the back. then the vicious bastard finished him off with a headshot while he was down. with tray there was only 1 bullet wound to his front, so he wasn’t running away. and gz, who i’ve stated is an idiot, did not fire any more into tray. he stopped when the threat was ended. as for rascist, neither was white, which i am, so why would a i be standing up for gz if i’m racsist?
i may have pulled my gun. but a long time before that if a strange man was stalking me in the dark i would have dialed 911. this is something your argument overlooks. he had time and distance and darkness and rain on his side. was gz without fault. no. but as i’ve said before, there was enough stupid on that street to go around. i think if the jury has the option gz will be convicted of a lessor charge than murder 2.
Dukster Nigga is not racist? That is something Jmama and Sparky brought up. I love have in there post, the KKK could hang anyone but a white person and when someone mentions race people would start yelling they are playing the race card. You guys acted like this country was not built on genocide, racism, and hard working men free and slave. It is all bout who, what and where you are. Matt, I will pull up the 911 call again and listen to it, and get back to you.
What we have here is a strawman argument.
Here is what you do if you think you are being trailed. You change course and see if he continues to follow. If he does you call 911 and tell the operator that someone is following you. Then you continue to evade until the cops show up. The only thing I would do with my weapon is unsafe it if I am carrying my 1911. Hopefully the cops would show up before I had to brandish it.
Here is what Martin did. He evaded observation by darting in out of the shadows and yards until he lost Zimmerman. Then he doubled back to intercept Zimmerman. Zimmerman turned around and headed back to his car by the same route he came. (Professional advice: if you are ever trailing someone and you lose him go back to your desired location by new a route.) When Zimmerman came into view Martin stepped out to confront him. The rest is history. Zimmerman did attempt to return to his car after the 911 told him “you don’t need to do that.” He did not run down Martin and start a confrontation.
By the way I hate Sharpten and don’t care for Jesse.
Where do you guys live at Call 911? The police do not arrive until after there is a death. What time did they arrive when Martin was shot.
doesn’t matter where you live. if you have reason enough to think you’re in danger to sucker punch the other person you need to dial 911. you may not be dead afterwards but you may need medical help that the cops can get for you. and it builds a case that you acted in self defense.
tdiinva You need to listen to the 911 call
I listen to the version not edited by NBC. Which version did you listen to?
Wrong there Vinney. If I was Martin I’d have been in school or working and none of this would have happend.
Good For you. Sooner or later you have to relax sometime, walk the dog or girl friend then they will follow you jump out of the car and approach you yell obscenities. It is only a matter of time the Countries only getting worse. you all will have your turn, with you back in a corner. I am sure you will put your tail between your legs and just wait for what ever they have in mind for you.
Just keep on shouting out whatever incoherant crap comes to mind there, Vinny.
So now GZ got out of his car shouting obscenities at TM? That’s amazing. How did he keep it off the 911 recording, seeing as how he was on the phone with the dispatcher when he got out of the car.
You walk your girlfriend?
Good one Matt – I think in his twisted liberal mind he does think that. Seems old Vinney is making it up as he goes along. The constant switching is also indicative of manic/depressive personality disorder, possibly even a multiple personality. He’s probably talking to himself right now:
Vinny: Should we walk the girlfriend?
Vincent: What about the dog?
Vinny: The dogs not my girlfriend!
Vincent: But you said…
Vinny: I know what you said…
Vincent: Oh shaddup ya moron.
Wow you guys are really angry, mad enough to shot someone.
Dukster Nigga is not racist? That is something Jmama and Sparky brought up. I love have in their post, the KKK could hang anyone but a white person and when someone mentions race people would start yelling they are playing the race card. You guys acted like this country was not built on genocide, racism, and hardworking men free and slave. It is all bout who, what and where you are. Matt, I will pull up the 911 call again and listen to it, and get back to you.
jmama that was meant as joke. By the way I am a gun carrying, Christian. And I believe it will not be long before the Government takes our guys out of our cold dead hands. No one we vote for will fix this country it would decrease their profit. Oh is my last comment what you called switching? Switching the subject not sides or opinion. Sorry Joe I always have the big picture in mind and it causes me to do that.
The Girlfiend part was meant as a joke.
Vincent – Now sit up and pay attention okay? We’ll go real s l o w just for you. “No limit nigga” is what Tray-gone…errr…Martin called himself on his facebook page. You really are dumb as a stump. Try to keep up.
Am I the only one that finds it disturbing that the race card was pulled on this thread by HMMMMMMM? I didn’t see anything racist on here until he brought it up. That is usually the last resort when a person, usually of color, has no valid argument. It is definitely more racist than anything anyone has posted on this thread. What a disgrace.
That’s right up there with Sharpton and co. calling Zimmerman a “white hispanic” when he found out that he wasn’t actually a white dude he could exploit for his little race war. Tell me, where do “white hispanics” even come from, anyway?
The really awesome part is that Zimmerman is not even white hispanic. A white hispanic is caucasian and culturally hispanic. Zimmerman is just a plain old American mutt with some Afro-Latino heritage.
The whole thing is just embarrassing.
OK I listen to the 911 call, Trayvon is running away and Zimmerman pursues Trayvon, even though the dispatcher told not to. Trayvon stood his ground and Zim shot him. Did you guys hear anything about Trayvon having busted knuckles, or Zimmerman’s blood on him from Zim’s broken noise? It sounds like a kid yelling help on the tape to me.
http://youtu.be/x2r9I2tnnGs
The little MSNBC bug in the lower left corner of this clip was all I needed to see to know this isn’t anything that could be taken seriously. In fact, it’s been WELL established that MSNBC doctored their tape to paint GZ as a ruthless, bigoted murderer.
If it says MSNBC, it’s probably nothing more than outright lies.
How do you bang a healthy strong man’s head on the floor when they do not have hair to grab. He chased down Martin, cornered Martin with his back to the wall, he had no choice but to stand his ground. Gentlemen I am sorry Martin was in a fight or flight position. Martin fought for his life and lost.
Matt I listen to all three 911 calls. That is how I see it.
Vincent, You’re utterly delusional if you think that’s what really happened.
All of the posts, all of the media attention, all of the protests and passion, prove beyond a shadow of a doubt only one thing: a terrible tragedy happened that night. Perhaps we can get past the shouting and vitriol and learn from it. What can we do so these kinds of things don’t happen in the future. Perhaps neighborhood watchers should be easily identified or work in pairs. I really don’t know what happened. Neither does anyone else, but many lives were ruined forever. The pundits on both sides who are using this to their advantage to gain ratings, self promote or to move their masseter muscles are truly shameful. In that same vein, anyone that tries to use this terrible incident to defend or deny 2A or “stand your ground” should stop. I cannot imagine the terrible grief of Mr. Martin’s family and friends; nor can I feel the pain and remorse of Mr. Zimmerman and of course since one is dead they are not equal. Nevertheless it is a tragedy. We need to learn from it; not use it to cause more pain and polarization.
Stay safe.
Don’t waste your time BuddhaKat, Vinnie is a lost cause.
I don’t know if I’d call him a cause.
Leon great post, I agree completely.
i don’t know what terrible grief tray’s dad is feeling but his mom trademarked his name faster than you could bury the boy. we know because of court proceedings how much money gz has taken in because of this. but i don’t know of any way to find out how much his mother has banked because of this.