“A customer snapped a photo of an unusual sight at a convenience store in La Grulla [Texas],” valleycentral.com reports. “The photo shows a Border Patrol agent waiting at the counter with his service issued assault rifle at a Stripes store off Highway 83. One viewer told Action 4 News that the presence of the armed agent caused alarm among customers.” Note: open carry of long guns is legal in Texas. However, if the Agent “caused alarm” he could have been arrested for disorderly conduct. You know; for “displaying a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm.” Anyway . . . “Action 4 News spoke to Border Patrol officials about the incident. Border Patrol officials said the agent is not facing disciplinary action. Officials said the gun lock in the agent’s vehicle was not working properly and that he could not leave it in the vehicle. Border Patrol officials said the agent decided to carry the semi-automatic rifle with him inside the store to keep it secure.” As good a reason to open carry a rifle as I can think of. Just sayin’ . . .
Better keep that rifle secure. The ATF loves to just hand them out to anybody near border.
@RF, and so it continues…you always trying to find fault with someone in uniform. Sad. Pathetic.
Ummmm……maybe you should reread the article……if you read it the first time
What? Where did you get THAT? I see that RF doesn’t like Jews, either–that’s pretty clear from the article, as well. It’s plain as day. . .
@JinAK, uh, if you say so.
And Rhodes scholars, or Islanders, or hockey games. or big statues.
Or something like that. I’ve lost track.
Or big statues on the island oh Rhodes…
like, Collosal ones ?
I like turtles
That is always with this guy. He thinks it helps the agenda, but it does not. It just draws a bunch of psychos from the darkest corners of the internet to his web site….and they linger. Forever. The article is nothing but snark. A govt official in uniform…with a gun. They all have guns. Trying to draw a similarity between a uniformed official and a plain clothed person who’s ID and intent are unknown…is kinda silly, but hey, it fits the agenda. “and…..Nothing”…yea like what would you have done to him?
@Rydak, excellent observation and analysis.
Based on the reading comprehension and thoughtful analysis, I’m gonna guess rydak and el mac have amazingly similar IP addresses
“It just draws a bunch of psychos from the darkest corners of the internet to his web site….and they linger. Forever.”
I must say Rydak and El mac. It’s all a matter of perspective. For me as a free citizen; I get warm feeling when I see a fellow citizen walking down the street OC’ing a weapon; whether pistol or rifle. It is obvious when someone is a threat or is simply practicing a right, duty and responsibility. I find it disturbing that so many other fellow citizens are frightened by this sight of a free citizen practicing their birth right.
I find it even more disturbing that both of you think that people like myself are “Psychos from the darkest corners of the internet” because I have these beliefs.
It is because so many of my fellow citizens are frightened by the idea that they are the first line of defense against predators; whether common predators in the street or common predators in government that we have got to this point.
Both of you are simply a symptom of a disease; the disease of the rejection of personal responsibility and placing that in the hands of what are no longer servants, but what are to many people, their masters.
The issue is that people are inured to the sight of government officials routinely carrying black rifles around, but pee their pants when they see someone from their own community doing the same while enjoying a burrito. It’s the duality of the public’s desensitization to armed agents of the state milling about among us, and hypersensitivity to open carrying members of the community casually going about their business, that RF seeks to highlight.
Take for instance your characterization of him as a uniformed official. You get that from the picture and the article, but if you were standing in the store, you could not be certain of any such thing. I see a guy in a jumpsuit with some kind of badge, which proves what, exactly? That this guy bought some a pair of Dickies at J.C. Penny and a badge from any of a zillion online retailers? At first glance, you have no idea who this guy is or what his intentions are. You’re just immediately convinced and relieved based on appearance and all that that implies. Well.
Dorner out in L.A. and Aaron Alexis at the Washington Naval Yard demonstrate that there’s no guarantee that government officials won’t go postal, too. In fact, I think that term “postal” comes from government officials in the first place.
@J-H, given that logic, no one should be armed – ever. ‘Cuz you never know….
I didn’t see the logic behind your statement. The point Johnathan was trying to convey is simply that cops open carrying are people and non-cops open carrying are people also. Both can fall to the same ailments. Also, any regular Joe can disguise himself as the person portrayed in the photo above. Just because a man walks in open carrying with a uniform and a badge doesn’t mean he isn’t a threat and just because a man walks in with open carrying in shorts and a fishing vest doesn’t mean he is a threat.
More of the point, why do cops get to open carry and that is OK- but regular citizens cannot. (I.E. double standard).
@Anonymous, yes there is a double standard. You and others seem to think that a guy in a uniform is a threat and dude in shorts and wife beater is the hero. Ergo, to keep from the double standard, disarm everyone…
That is actually not what I am saying at all. I am saying the guy in a uniform and the guy with shorts and wife beater should be held to the same rules. This is the definition of fairness and justice. Police are not above us, and we are not above them. We are all citizens of this country. I have a job and they have a job. Those jobs are different but neither job should elevate the exercisable rights and fairness of justice of one party over the other.
@Anonymous, I have no problem with that. And this “incident” being in Texas, that is the law as it is written.
It just draws a bunch of psychos from the darkest corners of the internet to his web site
Hahahahahahah! He doesn’t understand the irony of his own statement. What a clown! What a pair of clowns!
@Ralph, pssst…….you might run out and check the parking lot. Dude might be driving a scary truck too!!! Hint: make sure you have your Depends on in case of fear induced wetting.
Does anyone else smell troll here?
El mac, if you are being ironic, I am missing it.
Rydak, the jooosss thing is old, lame, boring.
Lots of other places on line where you might get some play, tho. Kos, DU, NYT comment section, etc.
Good point damn few (to none) should be armed unless sworn military.
What is this guy wearing? Pajama?
Can’t properly secure the firearm? Pass up the donuts.
I know that it’s just wrong, but I am more alarmed by the hideous multi-coloured giant slug behind him. My GOD, doesn’t anyone have some SALT?!
Oh. . . he has an AR. Nice Eotech 512.
And the Eotech even appears to be mounted the right way.
And the Magazine isn’t jambed in backwards.
ZOMG U R BASSIN’ TEH POPOS EN ERRY ARDICLE
I know right?
A double standard is a double standard. Harden the eff up or stop putting bad shooters on paid leave. In short, qq moar pigs.
They’ll keep defending the thugs in blue though, makes it really easy to dismiss the “good ones” too.
Non news, as RF is inferring.
*please* don’t click the valley central link and give the “news” agency any page views. They don’t deserve it.
@NWGlocker, well if it’s non-news, why post it at all?
You REALLY are missing the point here. Big time.
But, you are entertaining. For a minute or two, anyway.
@JR_in_NC, well do tell. If there is something to be learned, I’m all ears.
Your earlier replies in this thread suggest that no, you are not all ears. Others have tried to explain it to you, and all you have done is snark on them.
If you are wondering why RF posted this article, go back up and read Jonathan-Houston’s post again….with an open mind and without the nonsense reply.
I’m trying to “shoot straight” with you here, but your style of responding to people invites nothing but snarkiness back, and makes the claims of “troll” pretty easy. It makes people not want to take you seriously which is a shame because you do make valuable input when you don’t post like that.
If you are honestly asking to learn something you may have missed, do yourself the favor of toning down the aggressive replies. Catch more flies with honey than vinegar and all that…
Well he is posturing much like the now famous Chipotle photo. Looks to me like he is ready to shoot someone. The same rules should apply for everyone – sling it over your back and keep your hands off it unless you are about to shoot someone.
He’s not posturing like them because he’s not posing for a stupid photo… BUT I agree that he shouldn’t be carrying it like he’s about to bring it into action there. Gun lock broken? Sling it on your back (or keep your car in view and lock the door).
Don’t have a sling? Go without your damn slurpee.
An officer posted this comment here:
Indicating he arrested some open carrier’s who couldn’t keep their rifles slung and hands off.
Yet we see law enforcement can do it while doing convenient store OCT kung fu.
You can, of course, do as you choose, but using THAT person’s anecdotes as examples may be a serious mistake; If he’s telling the truth, he’s a rogue–look at his attitude, his syntax, his abusive and overbearing behaviour–and if he’s not, he’s a liar and a poseur.
In any case, he’s no ‘officer.’
+1 Said it before I could.
His finger is an inch from the trigger, that doesn’t look very good. That would make me nervous too.
Over the shoulder or across the back, low ready means you’re expecting something.
perfect explanation exactly why a civilian should carry their rifle, fear of getting stolen from the car.
Because he a public law enforcement official not some kind of idiot OCT Ninja.
While I think there’s something to the fact that the uniform of a sworn officer presents at least some bona fides that he is not there to rob the place, I would say that style of carrying should be left for when you may need to use the gun quickly, not just carrying it to grab a bag of chips or whatever.
There’s a reason most police officers don’t carry long arms around on patrol, and it’s not just to appease the ‘militirization’ critics; if you’ve got your hands on a gun all the time there’s a lot of other things you can’t be doing. How is he going to maintain retention on that weapon if he has to go hands on with someone or use less-lethal force?
Oh yes, since he wears a uniform and someone, somewhere gave him a badge and/or a piece of paper then it’s perfectly cool to walk around with your rifle at the ready with your finger by the trigger.
I’d be more scared of this guy than any of the “chipotle ninjas” any day? Why? Because this guy actually believes in his mind that he has a duty and mission to use that thing…
He should have it slung over his back and if the lock was broken and he was worried about it he shoudl have taken the mag out. I’m sure he also has a pistol as well so he could still be armed.
Jesus! He is open carrying that rifle at port – not even slung on his back. He is a convenient store OCT Ninja! Right Paul? I mean – the only difference between him and the other open carrier’s is a uniform. Surely the clothes on a person doesn’t dictate or justify their right to open carry – right Paul?
Or is it that he is law enforcement? One rule for them and another for us? You support that yea? Because cops get rights and we don’t. I see.
@Anonymous, it looks like someone was asleep during boot when they described what “port arms” is…that ain’t it in the photo.
Might as well be – his hand is all over the grip and trigger area.
@Anonymous, you might need some weapons training. That is standard issue to control the weapon and keep it from flopping around.
>implying there is a difference
I would actually prefer the OC ninjas who get permission to enter a restaurant over the boston swatters running through living rooms in full battle rattle.
the car had trunk, right?
They usually drive around in a suburbanesque vehicle, no trunk.
Is that an Assault Rifle or an Assault Weapon?
Damn! Beat me to it!
Locked car will not suffice, have heard a few stories about BP long guns not secured in the vehicle and someone did a smash and grab. I’d rather have him do this than risk leaving it in the vehicle.
The securest place for a weapon is on your person or secured with another person.
I really think the OCT people are on to something with the flintlock pistol as the way to make a political statement. The reality is that it IS weird to carry an AR around town just for giggles, and it WILL cause alarm. Still falls under free speech, I just think it is far less confrontational and just as effective message-wise to open carry the flintlock.
Serious question, though: how to get to so it does NOT cause alarm?
Because it shouldn’t. A person just having a gun should not be alarming to anyone. A person waving a gun around shouting “this is a stick up” is alarming, and should be.
The focus should be the actions of the thinking human being, not the presence of the inanimate object.
If we want to have a discussion about “low ready” vs “slung” and all that…that’s fair. But, the mere sight of a gun, ANY gun, should be the cause of the panic and unease that the main stream media gins up.
should NOT be the cause of panic…etc.
One rule for thee, different rule for me…
He who has the guns makes the rules….
Seems t’ me it’s only ‘alf o’ them wit’ guns wot makes th’ rules.
The women behind him doesn’t appear to be particularly alarmed. Typical sensational reportage.
She does to me, or at least she might be, based on her hand… hard to tell with the little black dot there.
Maybe she’s calling 911?
No, she’s probably calling ahead to the counter clerk to make sure that he doesn’t sell the last Ho-Hos, 64oz Big Gulps, little chocolate doughnuts, and SlimJims before she gets there, because she’s already walked the whole way from the front door to the end of the first display aisle behind that guy in the green jammies, and is just ‘WAY too tired to walk the rest of the way to the counter without resting her fat wads for a few minutes.
“Border Patrol officials said the agent decided to carry the semi-automatic rifle with him inside the store to keep it secure.”
I love the double meaning in that statement! Was the Border Patrol agent carrying in the store to keep “it” (the store) or “it” (the rifle) secured?
At any rate, that is exactly why I carry firearms in public sometimes … and it is an excellent reason to carry.
So why is it loaded?
@New Chris, well an unloaded gun makes for a poor club. Why shouldn’t it be loaded?
I think the question is if he is only bringing it with him to keep it from being taken out of his truck, why should it be loaded? But I can’t tell from the photo whether it is “loaded” in the sense of having a round chambered or not. And why leave the mag behind to be taken out of the truck? And what better place for the mag than in the mag well?
I’m sure if you were taken hostage in this store, you would be praising him that he showed up with his AR. Double standard? Only for the public. Omg an AR how uncivilized, wait I’m getting robbed come back!
It looks like he has his hand on the rifle because he was adjustng the way the sling rode on the back of his neck. My guess he lifted the rifle to take pressure off the sling and move it down below his collar.
Regardless who cares.
But wait LEO’s have duty issued rifles and carbines, only citizens have “assault rifles”.
Citizens have that most meaningless term, “assault weapons.” This might be a carbine or rifle but it might also be an actual assault rifle… not sure if the border patrol carries select-fire (prolly not normally).
“Officials said the gun lock in the agent’s vehicle was not working properly and that he could not leave it in the vehicle. ”
So…why didn´t he remove the mag when entering the store????
Do we have a “the police and military are the only ones who should be carrying ‘assault rifles’ ” contingent here? Kinda sounds like it. Just to clarify: Tom W, I caught the sarcasm, this isn’t a response to your post.
This is just like when a parent tells a child, “Do as I say and Not as I do”. And now all the little kids are crying. I am all for open carry, but feel that so many of the protestors go about it in the wrong way, and their appearances bring into question their motive. I also feel quite a bit better seeing some type of LEO carrying a rifle than some yahoo-nobody carrying around a rifle in the same manor.
I see nothing alarming here, nor does it appear the woman cares either.
And I applaud the officer for using common sense if the lock in the truck is broken.
Just watched a couple of episodes of Texas Border Patrol on Nat Geo, I think. No time to confirm link, but here is something relevant.http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/03/17763809-border-patrol-faces-new-challenge-with-surge-in-rural-texas-border-crossings?lite
I know TTAG shows examples of bad behavior by cops, but that does not mean we readers are anti-cop. Just pro responsible gun use.
And if anyone has any doubts about why it matters, to the average citizen to at least be thinking about why to consider responsible self defense for your family…just watch the news, or better, start reading what is NOT reported by the StateRunMedia.
Its very alarming, frankly.
Thank you, Ladies and Gents of the Border Patrol. You have a very tough job, right now.
First….unless the lock just broke….why isnt it fixed? (other than the fact that the feds take forever to do anything).
Depending on his patrol vehicle type, he could have secured it another way.
Second, he is using a one point sling. There is no way to “Shoulder” it. He could have slung it over his back.
I have never brought my rifle into a store unless I was on a call that required it. Like it or not folks react to that kind of rifle. That is a fact of life.
A while back I got a call of an armed person making threats who was in the bathroom of a convenience store. I went in, rifle in hand. The clerk,who knew me by name, turned white as a ghost. Just a reaction to seeing the rifle. The call was false, made by a wanted felon we were looking for, but her reaction was typical.
I also think the “Lock was broken” story was no more than CYA talk. Did this guy carry his rifle everywhere?
Thanks, Sgt Hayes. I expect this officer will probably be more likely to go straight to the garage, next time, to get the lock fixed. Just saying…and because someone made a stink out of this commonsense short cut to get a soda on the way, OC carry suffers for all.
The pojnt being…if you want OC handgun, making a circus out of OC long carry is not how to go about it. Someone chose to dime him out, and I wonder who and why?
The rifle in the picture is clearly on a 2 point sling. You can see where it attaches at both ends of the rifle.
2 point slings are more practical for almost every application than single point anyway.
If the idea actually was to ‘secure’ the rifle while carried on his person;- the magazine would have been removed from the magwell; the action would be open; the selector switch would be on Safe; the chamber would have been inspected and known with certainty to be empty; and the barrel would be pointed up. Simple. Really.
@GW…precisely my thoughts.
Anyone here a bit upset when Brian Terry was murdered? I want the border protected. Even if it’s mostly security theater with Barry’s bunch. This is obviously about nothin’ -much. A guy in uniform carrying a rifle.
@former water walker, exactly. Big friggin deal.
The way border patrol have been treated in this administration maybe he was just feeling really paranoid…
He’s a thin, mildly attractive fellow with a badge and uniform on. The open carry guys who have been the ire of so many are chubby, unshaven, unattractive blue collar types who nobody wants to sit next to in a restaurant any way. With or without the SKS and bayonet. AmIright?
The open carry of long arms issue is a can of worms, and I’m still skeptical that the risks are worth the reward. I’d be surprised if the 2A experts (e.g. Gura, Halbrook, NRA,etc..) start recommending the open carry of an AR as the best mechanism for improving 2A rights. If this is such a powerful political tool to win public support, then I wonder why we haven’t seen any NRA reps (e.g. Colin Noir, Joe Mantegna, etc) carrying their suppressed Mk18s to Whole Foods?
Given the double standard and media bias, imagine what would happen if one of the typical open carry neckbeards looking like the Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons has an ND vs a LEO having an ND? Fair or not, appearance is everything. Thought experiment: If you’re a bank teller, and a dude strolls through the doors looking like Neil from Heat with an M4 Commando, would your first thought be 1st/2nd amendment advocate?
Another thought experiment: If you are committed to 2A advocacy, why not wear an AR15 Tshirt in public? What better way to make 2A friends and debunk stereotypes on a daily basis? Make sure to arm yourself (pun intended) with facts, a calm yet gregarious demeanor and a good shave/shower.
I’m not saying it wouldn’t be fun to strap on my plate carrier and SCAR-17 when going to dinner/movie with the family-OR that anyone who does deserves to be arrested-but I’ll pursue other means that are less likely to end with an arrest/tasering/lawsuit/NYT article/etc…
Not to beat this to death, but one point to be made on OC long is context, and perceptions.
Those who are dogmatic and passionate about the technical legality, bear with me here, and just set aside your own opinion for a minute, and try to put yourself in someone elses shoes, and understand their perception, for thats the filter you have to get through, to get to their open mind. These zwould be the non-gun owbers yoh want to educate, and convince you are not a scary person.
If you click on the photo it goes to tbe local paper website, which at this writing, had something like 71 comments. Most were supportive of the officer, or wondering, whats the big deal. Its obvious its a cop, in field type working uniform, probaly on his way back from someplace like the range, or patrol, and he is carrying casually. (not port arms, btw).
So thats good news that most of the popoulation in that part of Texas is not hyperventilating, one way or the other on this issue, and having the examlle of a cop carry OC long casually is good.
Now, imagine this is in an urban area, like Austin, with a camo’d up kid, giggling and goofing, hand on in a more aggressive active posture. Whole different feel, and obviously, how the media reports on it is going to be different. How do you manage that, for the positive side? Thats it, please just give calm rational answers. How would you assure observors that you are part of a respinsible group, that is sensitive to others perceptions, in the way you carry?
It would have caused less alarm if the rifle was slung over his back muzzle down.
I agree. That would be closer to what most rural area folk are accustomed to seeing by hunters with long guns, either American Carry (ww2 soldier style muzzle up) or African Carry (muzzle down).
I’m gonna defer to any real operators or recent experience military trained folks here, but per this link; http://kr-15.com/2014/01/20/home-defense-tip-low-ready-vs-high-ready-for-you-ar/
the Officer is not carrying “low ready” either, nor even “patrol ready”, technically…
not that it would matter much to anyone NOT familiar with ARs…they are all evil if you are brainwashed.
Maybe there is a ” relaxed patrol carry ” favored or taught by some others, and I can see this being a sort of natrural way to control the weapon. In front, on sling, muzzle down like African carry but cross-chest muzzle to low offside side, to free up one hand hand for shopping, scratching head, etc.
Lets call it Walmart ready…;)
It always seems to meet that border patrol agents all look relatively youn compared to other federal officers.
That and have you guys seen the video on facebook asking the truck driver if hes a American citizen and the driver asks if it matters anymore?
Other than TSA I think Border Patrol is most entry level. And its physically demanding, and higher turnover, I hear.
Actually the Border Patrol Agent was trying to defend himself from Jabba The Hut who was sneaking up behind him.
Of course nothing happened! The subject is a federal law enforcement officer and is supposed to be armed in plain view like any uniformed police officer. Whether his weapon is long or short is immaterial, he is allowed to have on his person as long as he is not handling it in a dangerous or irresponsible way. He was not violating agency policy. This is not even an issue.
I’m not going to argue about the appropriateness of open carry for different people; too much vitriol here today. However one particular carry method that I like is very doable with different 3 point slings, as well as some two point slings with easily adjustable straps. In effect, it kept the rifle within easy reach for use, yet appears less threatening. More importantly for why I used it this way was to keep it out of the way when shopping at a base PX, or loading equipment and other tasks. In the case of a three point sling, wear it like you normally would for engagement, then loosen the sling enough so that the rifle hangs low. Simply rotate it around back so that the receiver basically rests on your rear, with the pistol grip at the right spot so that you can immediately grab the pistol grip without straining. It’s a nice carry for situations where you don’t need to be at low ready, but still be able to use it quickly if need be.
I personally don’t like one points due to the smaller variety of carry positions.
Someone should teach him how to use a sling – rather than carrying his “assault weapon” (smirk) at the low-ready position.
@Steve Day, bro, that ain’t “low ready” by any means.
Government workers are the only ones who can open carry and everyone else should hide their weapons under their clothes or in their cars or leave it at home? Ignorant hypocrisy.
The constitution wasn’t written as one law for you and another for me because of whom I am employed.
Next I’m sure you will be calling for open carry to be made illegal.
I think Ralf’s clown count was low.
If open carry is allowed by law, how can one commit disorderly conduct following the law? That is one messed up thing in Texas.
The Agent could not have been arrested as he was on duty and a Federal Agent.
Time to set the record straight.
1. I was a Border Patrol agent until couldn’t stand living in a Mexican colony anymore but I’m not the guy pictured nor do I know him.
2. The Border Patrol is not like your state or local police force. Different mission, different policy and they aren’t subject to local gun laws.
3. Per policy, if you check out a long arm(M4, 870 or UMP40) it becomes your primary weapon. You carry it. It’s not an oh shit something’s happening, get it out of the trunk of a cruiser weapon.
4. IF a long arm is left in a vehicle it by policy MUST be double locked. Locked gun rack and locked vehicle. If either lock fails it must be taken with you.
5. Per policy long arms are carried with a mag inserted but without a round in the chamber.
6. Per training a long arm is slung across the chest.
7. They are off road most of the time and hard on trucks. Every patrol vehicle has something broken on it pretty much all the time. Agents deal with it. They struggle with budget issues and can’t just go to the garage and have it fixed at their leisure.
From what I can see in the picture the agent is doing everything by the book.
@Austin, kudos to you and the Agent in the photo.
Thanks Austin. Seems like a tough dangerous job, especially thankless now with policy from POTUS.
I’ve talked to a few of these guys, while out scouting wild pig. All serious, dedicated, but like you say, many seem frustrated. Based on their feedback there are a couple places I avoid after dark in SD county.
Good man, I want to see guns carried everywhere. No exceptions.
Handcuffs work well to secure firearms in vehicles.