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“I’ll tell you what determines whether I draw the gun or not. It’s the man’s skin color . . . We got a big city nearby, and, you know, the black people there are always killin’ people. Now, if a colored man comes into this county, I know he means trouble because he knows he doesn’t belong here. That makes him more dangerous than a white man. That’s why I’d pull my gun.” – Unidentified pastor quoted by Pastor Rob Schenck in Should Christians Own Guns? [via]


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  1. “I’m a conservative evangelical pastor here to publish a diatribe against gun owners on a progressive Social Justice Website…so you know I’d never make shit up and lie like my name was Hillary…

    …or maybe I’m just the usual Social Justice Warrior, and my ends justify my means…

    • Uh, Pastor? Didn’t Our Heavenly Father says something about “bearing false witness”? (steps a few paces away nervously)

        • Wouldn’t matter to leftists even if the poster was definitively outed as a fraud. They would just say, “Well, we all know it’s true anyway.”

    • ‘Our Vision

      We envision a future in which Christians put their faith into action in the passionate pursuit of social justice, peace, and environmental stewardship…’

      Probably a sister publication to Rolling Stone.

      • “We envision a future in which Christians put their faith into action…”

        Exactly. If a true Christian pastor and his flock – when faced with deadly peril the obvious choice is to pray really hard and let God decide the outcome, right?

        Personally I’d rather pray that He guides my bullet to its mark. God helps those who help themselves, and by that it doesn’t mean someone who helps himself to your stuff or your life.

    • Agreed. Underhanded agitprop from the latest of Alinsky’s readers. It’s a shame they lie like they do, but they really believe in their way at all costs. Truth be damned.

      Though to be fair, crowds, miracles, fights with temple elders, and the lot. Nobody in the community thought to write a single word about the Jesus fellow until 75 years after he supposedly died. Not to mention not a word in contemporary world history.

      The Israeli scientists and archaeologists find no evidence the Jews were ever Egyptian slaves, and the exodus never happened. I guess like fossils, your deity likes to lie to his followers and still expect them to obey or be punished.

      • “There is nothing more painful to me … than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”

        Rev. Jesse Jackson

        • Christophe Hitchens addresses a hypothetical question he was asked on a panel with radio host Dennis Prager: if he were alone in an unfamiliar city at night, and a group of strangers began to approach him, would he feel safer, or less safe, knowing that these men had just come from a prayer meeting?

          “Just to stay within the letter ‘B’, I have actually had that experience in Belfast, Beirut, Bombay, Belgrade, Bethlehem and Baghdad. In each case … I would feel immediately threatened if I thought that the group of men approaching me in the dusk were coming from a religious observance.”

      • “Nobody in the community thought to write a single word about the Jesus fellow until 75 years after he supposedly died. Not to mention not a word in contemporary world history”

        BZZZ sorry bro, you are misinformed. The *entirety* of the New Testament was written prior to 70 a.d. regardless of what you’ve been reading on the internet.

        • You might want to get educated by the Jesuits (and a bunch of other Biblical scholars). They all have these things in books, which you can now read on the internet. But back when I learned them, it was from brothers, priests, and scholars in the Catholic church. They’ve been desperately rationalizing their continuing existence, since the beginnings of science. Their pretty sure about the history, they created it.

          Please, go learn for yourself. Nothing, ever was written about Jesus until Mark which was at best 70 CE.

          (And no Tacticus didn’t write anything. It mysteriously appeared in a copy cranked out about 300 CE)

        • 16V,

          The University of Michigan is one of the most liberal universities in the United States and is most certainly NOT a friend of the Christian church. As I understand it, the University of Michigan has the largest collection of Biblical manuscripts and fragments in the Western Hemisphere with something like 16,000 manuscripts and/or fragments.

          At great expense and difficulty, I personally traveled to see some of their manuscripts that they occasionally display for the public. I personally observed a manuscript fragment that is something like 4 chapters in one of Paul’s epistles. (I believe it was 2 Corinthians.) Of course it was in Greek. I had a friend with me who knew enough Greek to start reading it in a quick/rough translation. His on-the-fly translation was amazingly accurate to modern translations. Please note that the university dated that fragment to something like 63 A.D.

          Keep in mind that Jesus was approximately 33 years old when the Romans crucified him. That means he died around 33 A.D. depending on exactly where you claim his birth falls. Thus, that particular fragment already existed about 30 years after Jesus’ death and could have been written within within a few years of his death.

          When an extremely liberal university that is NOT a friend of the Christian church authenticates a text to 63 A.D., I take that as highly reliable evidence. Thus, your claim that the New Testament was written something like 70+ years after Jesus’ death is demonstrably false.

          Furthermore, scholars are dating the Dead Sea Scrolls to, what, 600 B.C. or so? They contain many large manuscripts (if not entire books) of the Old Testament which match precisely with what was previously the earliest known complete manuscripts of the Old Testament dated to something like 1,000 A.D. (give or take). Whatever the exact dates, they demonstrate that Biblical manuscripts have been accurately copied spanning more than 1,000 years between known, dated manuscripts.

          Our knowledge of Biblical manuscripts is extremely well established and they have proven accurate time after time after time. While you are certainly welcome to debate whether the authors were raving lunatics, you have no basis in FACT to debate the accuracy and reliability of the Biblical texts themselves. No other literary work in the world has anything remotely close to the amount of authenticated Biblical texts.

      • So 16v; was Christ a myth? A lie perpetuated by those “charlatans” otherwise known as the 12 disciples? So the early Christian leaders, the disciples, were willing to be crucified, to be persecuted, to be killed, for a lie? And all those early Christians, contemporaries that would have seen the Christ preach, were fed to the lions, because they were unwilling to lie in refusing to claim that Caesar was a god? So a religion that is based on speaking absolute truth, even if it gets you fed to a lion, is based on the greatest lie of all? Ummm, I don’t think so.

        Being raised in a very liberal/progressive environment,(the Bay Area, and Santa Cruz, CA) I once thought that anyone that believed in a higher power was a gullible fool, particularly Christians; since they were and are the majority in this country that are spiritual/religious. Until I experienced the direct connection to source, to the universal intelligence, and it was incredible!! A timeless moment of the now, with a direct knowing that there is no past or future, that everything was happening right now; that in that now, we are connected to all things as one being, and that being is unconditional love. (All described by theoretical physics, by the way, except for the unconditional love part).But no burning bush or face in the cloud, just an experience.

        After I was shown that there is a higher intelligence/being, I first explored that connection to Source through american Indian teachings, (very powerful those teachings) then, when I came to New Mexico, I was guided to the Christ, and in reading the bible, I recognized it’s truth and was baptized.

        So you see 16V, EVERYTHING i had learned about the way the universe was supposed to work by Progressives was and is a lie, EVERYTHING!. I expect progressives to lie, that is what they do. So of course they will lie about the one belief system that is the greatest threat to their objective for total control over an individuals soul. Because unlike a progressive or a Muslim, which lying to achieve ones goal is perfectly acceptable, lying by a true Christian is not acceptable, even if it gets them killed.

        So the truth of the bible, as written, is what tells me that the people writing it were doing their best to tell the truth as they knew it, even if it got them killed. That is the truth I believe. So the truth of the Christ, is also what I believe, even if, or when, my life will be forfeit in speaking that truth.

        • ThomasR, I learned what I learned from historical documents, and mainly, from the Church itself. I figured out religion was created by man around age 6. Precocious they called it back then. They also feared me, and I was banned from the local church. Later, i learned to play the game so I could learn what the enemy had planned, and why they perpetuate this nonsense.

          There’s a ton of proof, from the people who created the myth themselves, that it was all make believe. Once again, just come up with historical proof of Jesus. There are no records of him at all. None. And he certainly would have been a big deal back then. There’s not one validatable historical document proving any of it. Not one.

          Was there some crazy Jew running around back then who Jews attached some “prophesy” to? Possible. The rest? Of course it was created. There is no other conclusion once you learn actual history from disparate unrelated sources. If you attend a quality Catholic school, they’ll do everything but tell you verbatim that religion is a tool for exploiting and controlling the sheep. There was no census, you certainly didn’t return home for it, the were no mass enslavements of Jews by Egyptians, there was no Moses, and he led no exodus. Israeli archaeologists have nothing but proof that it didn’t happen, and none that it did. I could do this all day and support with actual facts, not “faith”.

          So do you still believe the earth is flat? That the earth is the center of the universe? That humans should not be cut open? Which of your religion’s beliefs do you follow? The ones they say they “know” today? The ones in the series of books (called the Bible) all rewritten by different folks with different agendas? Which “Bible”?

          Here’s my take on Christianity, echoed by the more elegant (and polite since he was getting paid) Christopher Hitchens…

          “I’ve taken the best advice I can on how long Homo sapiens has been on the planet. Carl Sagan, Richard Dawkins, many others, and many discrepant views from theirs, reckon it’s not more than 250,000 years, a quarter of a million years. It’s not less, either. I think it’s roughly accepted, [to Francis Collins] I think, sir you wouldn’t disagree. 100,000 is the lowest I’ve heard and actually I was about to say, again not to sound too Jewish, I’ll take 100,000. I only need 100,000, call it one hundred. For 100,000 years Homo sapiens was born, usually, well not usually, very often dying in the process or killing its mother in the process; life expectancy probably not much more than 20, 25 years, dying probably of the teeth very agonizingly, nearer to the brain as they are, or of hunger or of micro-organisms that they didn’t know existed or of events such as volcanic or tsunami or earthquake types that would have been wholly terrifying and mysterious as well as some turf wars over women, land, property, food, other matters. You can fill in—imagine it for yourself what the first few tens of thousands of years were like. And we like to think learning a little bit in the process and certainly having gods all the way, worshipping bears fairly early on, I can sort of see why; sometimes worshipping other human beings, (big mistake, I’m coming back to that if I have time), this and that and the other thing, but exponentially perhaps improving, though in some areas of the world very nearly completely dying out, and a bitter struggle all along. Call it 100,000 years. According to the Christian faith, heaven watches this with folded arms for 98,000 years and then decides it’s time to intervene and the best way of doing that would be a human sacrifice in primitive Palestine, where the news would take so long to spread that it still hasn’t penetrated very large parts of the world and that would be our redemption of human species. Now I submit to you, ladies and gentlemen, that that is, what I’ve just said, which you must believe to believe the Christian revelation, is not possible to believe, as well as not decent to believe. Why is it not possible? Because a virgin birth is more likely than that. A resurrection is more likely than that and because if it was true, it would have two further implications: It would have to mean that the designer of this plan was unbelievably lazy and inept or unbelievably callous and cruel and indifferent and capricious, and that is the case with every argument for design and every argument for revelation and intervention that has ever been made. But it’s now conclusively so because of the superior knowledge that we’ve won for ourselves by an endless struggle to assert our reason, our science, our humanity, our extension of knowledge against the priests, against the rabbis, against the mullahs who have always wanted us to consider ourselves as made from dust or from a clot of blood, according to the Koran, or as the Jews are supposed to pray every morning, at least not female or gentile. And here’s my final point, because I think it’s coming to it. The final insult that religion delivers to us, the final poison it injects into our system: It appeals both to our meanness, our self-centeredness and our solipsism and to our masochism. In other words, it’s sadomasochistic. I’ll put it like this: you’re a clot of blood, you’re a piece of mud, you’re lucky to be alive, God fashioned you for his convenience, even though you’re born in filth and sin and even though every religion that’s ever been is distinguished principally by the idea that we should be disgusted by our own sexuality. Name me a religion that does not play upon that fact. So you’re lucky to be here, originally sinful and covered in shame and filth as you are, you’re a wretched creature, but take heart, the Universe is designed with you in mind and heaven has a plan for you. Ladies and gentlemen, I close by saying I can’t believe there is a thinking person here who does not realize that our species would begin to grow to something like its full height if it left this childishness behind, if it emancipated itself from this sinister, childish nonsense.

          Here’s an easier one. Why does your god hate amputees? I mean he’s credited with all sorts of “miracles” (which happen at the exact same rate as random chance) supposedly shrinking brain tumors, causing cars to flip over potential victims. Why hasn’t he ever regrown a single limb? Not capable? Too showy? Just hates amputees and feels they aren’t worthy? Do tell, I’m curious.I mean you talk to him and all that. He should be able to answer the question, no?

        • Yeah 16V, I know of what you speak; because I was once like you. And I was blind, and I did not know it. I was a slave, and did not know it. I was alone, in a cold and lifeless universe, and did not know it. And then the gift was given, I asked, and in the asking, in the knocking on the door, I felt the touch of that which fuels the universe, that of unconditional and limitless love, and my eyes were opened, I was shown the truth, and that truth set me free.

          But it was only later, that that truth was set in the frame work of the christ. So I can only hope and pray that you will also be given the gift that I had been given. But the Christ, the I Am, is a loving G-d, and will not force you to believe. You need to knock, and ask, as I finally did, and the universal life and love answered.

  2. Um, heresay? “I didn’t say it, but I heard someone say it. Who said it? Um, I’d rather just not say.” FDR would use the same tactics when people didn’t role over for his executive authority.

  3. For me it is their clothes. Kilt or Lederhosen and my red dot is on them like stink on poop. Schenk’s story sounds like BS to me.

  4. After reading the whole article, it appears that Mr. Schenck has failed to mention the evil that is present in our society.
    And I don’t worship guns any more than I worship the socket I needed to buy to finish the brake job on my truck.

    • Depends on the socket. If it’s a SnapOn socket, then it is clearly a religious thing. you’d swear the things were made from the original golden calf

      • At least, you’d think so from the price.

        But then again, cry once and all that. I’m not a professional mechanic, but I’ve had a friend or two who were, and depending on the tool they thought the quality and ergonomics were often worth the premium.

  5. Colored? Really? I guess Schenk figured if he made up a quote using the n-word it would be to obvious this was constructed out of his own imagination.

  6. Well that settles it once and for all, we really are just bigoted, racist, gun-toting, Bible-thumping rednecks. If you can’t believe a second-hand account on a liberal website from a completely unidentified source then who can you believe?

  7. Yeah, right. Lying liars lying to push an agenda. There is a name for the prince of lies, and this man is clearly serving him, and it ain’t Jesus.

    • Or, to put it another way– sure, and “Jackie” was gang-raped by a UVa frat, and the Duke lacrosse team raped the black “dancer”, and those really were nooses hanging from the tree, and the Red Lobster waitress was really stiffed for her tip because she was lesbian, etc, etc, etc….

  8. Complete load of horseshit. Concerned about every member of the congregation being armed. Well, every member is also an individual, and responsible for their own safety. And that just might mean carrying their own weapon. Not everybody lives on his unicorn ranch.

  9. No I think we should play the liberals game. First, what does owning a gun have to do with this “Unidentified” pastor’s view? Second, how is the fact that people like this exist in the world an argument against the right to bear arms?

    • “Second, how is the fact that people like this exist in the world an argument against the right to bear arms?”


      In fact, it’s an argument FOR the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

      To wit:

      We’ve set the stage that some guy is batcrap crazy and thinks all “coloreds” are a threat. Therefore, he is a threat to many innocent, law abiding citizens going about their day…a colored mom taking her colored children to gymnastics practice, a responsible, colored dad on his way to his gainful employment, etc, etc, and etc.

      So, I say…arm them so they have the tool of self defense against batcrap crazy racists…such as the hypothetical dude in this quote and all the loony Progressives that promulgate derision against, and try to use for their own gain, “colored” people.

      RKBA applies to everyone. Yet, these dumb-a$$ed Proggies are stuck in low reverse thinking it is us saying ‘keep the guns out of the hands of coloreds.’

  10. Gun-grabbers don’t have anything but lies and ignorance and illogic–as our current resident troll, with uncharacteristic truthfulness for a grabber, has pointed out several times now, they are after emotions, and lies will do just fine for that when the truth isn’t with you. In their endless search for something that works, which has devolved into an endless recycling of stuff they’ve already tried before, they are apparently back to the “gun owners are all hopeless racists” trope.

  11. He must not be aware of what is happening, and has been happening for years, to Christians in Africa, the middle east, and increasingly in broader parts of the world.
    This is just liberal BS, trying to appeal go the left – not honestly to Christians. I feel like I wasted a lot of time reading that!

  12. The most anti black area of Illinois is northern Cook county – home of the big city. Cops work real hard to keep those shootings in the ‘hood.

  13. I wish TTAG would add a like and dislike button. The only colored people I shoot on sight is them dad-burn little green men or purple people eaters.

    • No &%$#@* ‘like’ button for TTAG!

      Don’t give the comment chimps a button to push to get a banana pellet.

      Now, excuse me while I find a vine to swing on…

  14. While we work for a better world the mention of a select group trained to protect us and we can’t protect ourselves smacks of the same old story.

    Being dependent on something or someone rather than just depending on it or him/her is fraught with peril.

    For a religious person it’s a spiritual peril as well. Actual or dogma based.

    What is often left out is the drive in some of us to protect the innocent.
    Some here will scoff at this but take my TV it’s not worth a life. Try to hurt or kill or frighten an innocent or helpless one and its our duty to protect that one. One can be a pacifist and protect someone.

    The article did raise the question about which life is important. Fetus, check. My people, check. Non-my people, nope. How can religion heal that when its clergy preach “us and them” ancient tribal think?

    Wow, everyday it’s more and more apparent that life is subtle and nuanced. Adhering to simple, easy solutions is possibly lazy.

  15. It just doesn’t seem likely to me that a group of gun owning evangelical ministers (people who are usually quite inclined to speak about moral issues) would be reluctant to discuss when use of deadly force was appropriate. Like they were all afraid that this anti-gun fellow would shame them for their answers.

  16. This is just symptomatic of the issue all Americans who support the Constitutional Republic now face. The far left Barak Obama leads and its supporters are habitual, willful liars who make-up anything, misrepresent anything, misquote anything they want to write into or say for the Public Record and KNOW they can get away with it because they will not be held accountable for it.
    The rest of us stand-by helplessly while the America we want to preserve is lied, legislated and deceived into oblivion.
    Rob Schenck is just another lying useful idiot to the Obama-led far left and does not deserve the dignity of being referred to as “Pastor”.

  17. If you know anything about the left wing Sojournes, the church is neo-Marxists believing in liberation theology and bases it’s ministry and the re-distribution of wealth. The founder Jim Wallis is a Democratic Party operative and was a personal pasture to President Obama; he was an apologist for communist atrocities in Cambodia and Vietnam, a dedicated foe of capitalism, contending that Biblical scripture calls for large central government to aid the poor. So when reading the above, consider the source. I am reminded of another Democrat operativem Harry Reid who said he had an informant that told him Romney had not paid any taxes..IOW, there is nothing new here.

    • “The founder Jim Wallis is … was a personal pasture to President Obama”

      That certainly is a grazing problem to ponder.

  18. Only unusual thing here is that it is TWO pastors who are lying pieces of crap, instead of only one. And yet, again, people who claim to read their bibles and love their neighbors and such silliness, supposedly put money in the plate for some moron like this to continue preaching his hatred.

  19. I read the article, and the thing that struck me the most was the number of logical inconsistencies and fallacies it contains. For example, he goes from the pastor’s alleged statement of fear of blacks to shooting people in the pews. Really? That, my friend, is a leap too far. Or when Jesus says that two swords is enough, and leaping to the unsupported conclusion that Jesus was somehow placing a limit on the number of arms one should have. Ridiculous. And his rant about loving our enemies etc etc, but failing to recognize that punks don’t respect your right to live; are we supposed to die happy as sheep? But this is, I have found, the norm for anti-gun diatribes.

  20. Like so many, Schenck conflates “Christians” with “Followers of Christ” to defend his narrative. If I call myself a Martian, does that make me a Martian? No more so than a hateful bigot calling himself a Christian makes one a Christian. Humans have the right to protect themselves and others from violent assault. To disagree with that, one doesn’t have an opinion, one has a neurosis. And if one is required to kill to protect the innocent, Schenck should reflect on the fact that one can love a man, and still kill him if it is necessary.


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