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“It’s people with guns that are able to kill far more people. Their ideology says if we all have guns, we’re safer. We’re safe because we’ll be more polite. That is a lie. It denies gun violence.” – Alan Storey in Taking on the gun madness: it’s time to stop, say faith leaders [via]


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  1. I’ve never pointed a loaded gun at another human being and pulled the trigger. How can I stop doing that if I never started in the first place?

    My gun has never decided to shoot anybody simply because it’s a mean spirited little thing. (so yeah, not a Glock.) Oh wait, it’s an inanimate object. No free will, or even a central nervous system. Not even a servomotor and control system. So it can’t do anything by itself. (and if it could, I’d rather start with self cleaning than auto killing.)

      • Same reason there’s hammer, machete and tire iron violence. Some folks gonna be assholes, period. And your only real hope against one of these is to have a gun.

        Unless you know some chopsaki moves to take a machete from a deranged killer bare handed.

        • I have a machete, several hammers, a tire iron for every vehicle we own, and a gun for every family member. 😉

      • Because it just so happens they pick the gun?

        You make it sound like removing the gun can save their lives. Australia and England disagree with you. Murders done WITH (not “by”) guns were replaced with those done WITH other weapons, with an overall increase in murders.

        Since the beginning of humanity we’ve been killing each other just fine. Nothing will change that. Violence is but a means of negotiation, don’t get your panties in a bunch.

        Oh and BTW there ain’t no gun in da mofo Chiraq or NYC. Dindu gunna du nuffin. ‘magine dat, bro!

        Quick tip: any time you use “gun violence” or “gun deaths”, you’ve automatically lost the debate. It’s a made-up term by the liberal media to gain views and votes. Believing the TV? Remember the “polls” on Trump vs Clinton.

    • I prefer not to engage in arguing directly against the fallacious premises and false pretenses of these people. If you go on defense against a false narrative you are passively acquiescing its legitimacy and have already lost the argument.

      Think of gun safety from an EHS perspective. If an employee is injured on the job there are many factors that go into investigating the cause of the incident. Where did it happen? What were the circumstances leading up to the incident? Who was involved? Why were they doing what they did? Was the employee following proper policy/law? What steps can be taken to deter the offending behavior in the future?

      The overwhelming majority of gun crime comes from very specific locales, under very similiar governing models, by a very small but distinct portion of the population. Want to stop gun crime? Look at where the gun crime is highest and evaluate what government policies are perpetuating this madness.

      • Spot on. In addition, I would add that banning guns (or any potentially dangerous objects) would decrease the number of accidental injuries related to hunting, cleaning etc. Accepting this premise would mean banning just about anything – even driving the car.

  2. Lets not mention 9/11 was done with no firearms but rather box cutters. Or what about Oklahoma City, I haven’t seen a mass shooting take out 168 people yet.

  3. “It’s people with guns that are able to kill far more people.”
    And it’s a lousy justice system that keeps turning them loose to continue preying on innocent citizens… (Parole, probation, early release for good behavior?)
    Excuse me, but aren’t you supposed to behave in prison?

    How many times have we read that the killer had a rap sheet 5 miles long including previous gun offenses? And on parole at the time of yet another crime!

    • It would certainly make a lot more sense to keep tacking on more time for bad behavior than shaving time off for good behavior.

      • I don’t like the “three strikes” policy. It’s too lenient. It was only made up because of the baseball analogy. I support giving a violent law breaker, not including murder, one chance at rehabilitation. Second offense gets a life sentence. The recidivism rate would be 1. Or less.

      • Michael – while I agree with the sentiment, history has shown that severe punishments, especially after a “slap on the wrist” or warning, inevitably ends up with the perp making extreme efforts not to leave witnesses to catch them the next time. It seems to have little or no other effect, such as convincing them not do do the crime in the first place.

        In England many years ago when the penalty for a highwayman (the original highway robbery) was death the should have been predictable result was that the highwaymen left a trail of dead, formerly rich, bodies. Unintended consequences, and all that.

        Consider this: If the penalty for murder is death and you have already committed a murder what incentive is there for you not to commit the next murder other than an increased possibility of making a mistake and getting caught? A trail of dead witnesses is better than being identified in court. Discounting the current availability of DNA evidence, of course. The analogy is not perfect, but illustrative.

        Bottom line – serious crime, serious penalty, first time, every time. The point of penalties is that they be bothersome enough to convince the criminal not to do the crime in the first place. If your life sucks enough that a few years in prison doesn’t seem so bad, society has to discover another way to dissuade you from crime. I suggest armed citizens and Stand Your Ground laws.

        As I pointed out earlier in the quote from Robert Heinlein: “Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life….” Beyond This Horizon, 1948

        • I am not advising a slap on the wrist for the first offense. I am saying use the standard sentence for the crime but then for a repeat crime, put them under the jail.
          You argue that this creates a more dangerous criminal. Does it? By your logic then we should not even have a criminal justice system to begin with. You are also basing your opinion on the pretense that the criminal would think rationally in choosing to murder over thinking rationally to go straight. My argument is that we have to get people who have chosen to disregard the rule of law off the streets forever. In the long run, I see my approach as a benefit to society as a whole.

        • I do not argue that ever more severe penalties for repeat offenses creates more dangerous criminals – I am only pointing to historical precedent – FACTS. In England and one point many crimes were punishable by hanging, or worse. This did not stop crime, only stopped live witnesses to the crimes.

          The problem with the justice system in such cases is that it is too slow, too cumbersome, and requires that you first catch the S.O.B. and then prove that he did it – usually requiring a witness (CSI or no). Armed citizens, on the spot, legally free to defend themselves and others without fear that THEY will be branded the criminal, results in immediate application of justice and is therefore a better deterrent to crime, IMO.

  4. Maybe it’s time get really real, gun control, safety, confiscation or whatever name they pick next is a bad idea. It’s bad for all the myriad reasons we’ve all stated before and it’s a bad notion because I and people that are like me are not people that you should back into a corner.

  5. Nay-nay, Mr. Storey, history tells a far different…um…story.

    It’s people who unilaterally wield the authoritarian power of the body politic that are able to kill far more people. Their ideology says that if we give up more and more of our liberties, we’re safer. We’re safer because government knows best. That is a lie. It denies the nature of man and those who crave political power.

  6. When I carry, I am MORE careful not to get into any kind of altercation, and are extrermely aware of my situation and location.
    If anything, I would say that most concealed carriers feel the same way…

    • Absolutely true. non proelio is my motto on the street.

      The stakes are high for me, but they’re really high for you mister aggressive pan handler (road rage asshole, would-be drug dealer, “got the time?” mugger, etc), and you don’t even know it.

      Of course I don’t want to hang out with any of those guys at any time, but being armed is a good reminder to me to keep myself in check. Especially with the driving stuff. That’s a bad scene that’s easy to escalate.

      Shocker here for a lot of the MDA crowd, but I don’t want to shoot anybody. Ever. I would do it if I had to, but it would weigh heavy on me for the rest of my life.

      Carrying a gun makes me way better at avoiding confrontation than I used to be.

  7. Baptists are anti-gun. Presbyterians are anti-gun. Is there any major religion that is NOT anti-gun, at least in the highest circles where all the money goes?

  8. It’s a ‘lie’ that’s demonstrably true. Iowa has a much lower homicide rate than Chicago. America has a much lower homicide rate than Mexico. It’s like they want us to look in the mirror and deny what we see.

  9. So, the Baptists condone gun control? Is that what it’s come to? Newsflash: I’ve never used any of my firearms to hurt anyone. It will stay that way as long as neither my loved ones nor I are attacked. Those self-righteous propagandists aren’t disarming me, either.

    • Which kind of Baptist; there are a whole bunch plus a significant number of independent ones. And they seldom see eye to eye on much of anything.

      • We/they see eye to eye on what is important: That Jesus called Christ was concieved of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, tortured and crucified and died, descending into Hades.

        And on the third day He rose again. Happy Sunday!

  10. Would someone tell me what credentials this man holds to be speaking about guns or self defense in any manner? I suspect he is completely uneducated, as in talking out his ass. And I’d bet money he expects people to give him money for his farts, as well.

    • The parallels of gun control mirrors church thinking on the origin of man. Limited on facts you have to make your own, faith being the vehicle for disinformation.

  11. So, just what is their “master plan” to remove firearms from the hands of those who already break the law?

    Pastors, a quote from the Book of Reality “Go ye Forth and Multiply. Alone.”

    • Now, that is the nicest way to tell someone to go f themselves I have ever seen. I need to use more milk if I am gonna continue blowing coffee out of my nose!

      • When his words or actions call for it, I do sometimes suggest that an individual go and engage in reflexive intercourse.

  12. Here we see why vast swathes of Christendom are no longer Christian in any meaningful way. To preach that followers of Christ should be unarmed sheep, rather than armed Shepherds is not Christian in the slightest.

    Without meaningful self defense to combat evil they are advocating for Christendom to become a death cult. That’s not part of the program.

  13. OK, a little background on “Baptists” hating guns. Saying you are a Baptist does not attach your every action to all other Baptists. There is no Baptist Pope directing the Catechism, in other words. There are many Baptist conventions, as well. FTA: “Riverside Church, jointly affiliated with American Baptists and the United Church of Christ, is a perfect location for such a conference.” Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago is, of course, Jeremiah Wright’s church (and allegedly Barack Obama’s.) And the American Baptists have always been refugee minded; they have always sponsored LEGAL immigrants, especially war refugees. Contrast with Westboro Baptist (not affilliated with any Convention.) Point is, Baptist conventions are very loose in what they demand from individual congregations. Individual pastors and elder boards are given great latitude, as long as the basics of Christian doctrine are solid (and no wine in the Communion cups!)

    Most people are familiar with the Southern Baptist Convention. The SBC and its seminaries and planting commissions are responsible for most non-denominational Christian congregations, as well as SBC affiliated congregations. Russell Moore, President of the SBC’ Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, says this:

    “First, let me in full disclosure say that I hold to traditionally conservative views on the Second Amendment as a personal and individual right. Like every other constitutional right, this right is not unlimited or all expansive, to be sure. We rightly do not allow private citizens to own surface-to-air missiles, for example. But I’m suspicious of gun control measures as naïve and ineffective, if not counter-productive, preferring to combat gun violence with strict enforcement of laws against gun crime and murder rather than with measures to impede the ability of law-abiding citizens to own weapons.
    That said, I recognize that there are many, including orthodox evangelical Christians, who disagree with me on my general opposition to more gun control. This should not divide us.”

    After RFK was murdered in 1968, a resolution was passed in support of Law and Order stating, among other things, “Be it further RESOLVED, That we commend and support the President’s urgent plea to Congress to “pass laws to bring the insane traffic in guns to a halt,” while maintaining the constitutional right to the legitimate possession of arms, and national leaders to act decisively to meet the problems of which violence is a result, not only because we want to avert violence and anarchy, but because, under God, we want to do right…”

    TL;DR Baptists are not a monolithic structure.

  14. It is so easy to make an inaccurate, all encompassing statement like this…so easy any useful idiot statist can do it as this Storey person proves decisively.

    People who are not armed enable, even encourage, criminal violence and predation by supplying an abundance of easy victims. How many people died at “The Pulse” because only one Security Person was armed and he retreated once he realized he was at a disadvantage against the attacker? How many would have lived if even two or three people inside the club had been armed with guns and responded effectively to the attack?

    The lying is on the part of Alan Storey. He’s no “faith leader”, more like a Snake Oil Salesman.

    • I would say that if the shooter, who had apparently frequented The Pulse nightclub on many occasions, had reason to believe that there were more weapons in the club than just the sitting-duck security guard at the door that not a single person would have been killed there that night. Said shooter would have found a different venue altogether.

      • I would say you are absolutely right! He might have chosen Alan Storey’s congregation (if he has one) to murder wantonly, or one like it.

  15. After reading the linked article , I feel like the audience in Billy Madison. It’s like 10 pounds of bullshit in a five pound sack.

  16. Hey Mr. Storey. Would you care to personally start a Baptist mission in Iraq, Libya, Syria or northern Nigeria?

    What’s that now? No. I didn’t think so. Phoney pastor with a phoney theism.

  17. I love this Everytown lie in the original article.
    I would have commented there but of course they don’t allow dialog on their website.

    “Everytown attorney Andrew Karwoski said that when Missouri eliminated the background check system gun sales and deaths went up. States that institute background checks see gun deaths drop 48 percent.”

    No state in the country sells guns without a background check, what a bunch of lying maroons.

  18. “Their ideology says if we all have guns, we’re safer. We’re safe because we’ll be more polite.”

    If you are going to (claim) to quote from “Their ideology” then you should at least research the source and get it right. In the fictional American society of the future from which this “An armed society is a polite society” is gleaned (Beyond This Horizon – Robert A. Heinlein, 1948.) the vast majority of citizens are armed and open carry. It is proper and accepted in this society to challenge to duel if you believe you have been wronged or insulted, or if some bully is harassing a person who is unarmed in public. It is the nearly universal presence of weapons (in this case some sort of ray gun) and the legality of the challenge for boorish behavior that result in the polite society, not the weapons alone.

    From the book:

    “Well, in the first place, an armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. For me, politeness is a sin qua non of civilization….But gunfighting has a strong biological use. We do not have enough things that kill off the weak and stupid these days. But to stay alive as an armed citizen a man has to be either quick with his wits or with his hands”

    It works a whole lot better when it’s not taken out of context.

  19. As a baptized christian, I look to the bible to find the laws of nature, the laws of the universe, as revealed to us by G-d.

    Luke 22:36-Then said He unto them, “But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it and likewise his pack; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.-

    Luke 22:38- And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, it is enough.

    Then, of course, one of the disciples cuts off the ear of a priest when they come to arrest the Christ.

    So if the Christ was alive today, it would be as if two of his disciples had a couple of pistols while at the Last Supper. And at the pivotal moment of the Christ’s arrest leading to his crucifixion, a disciple would try defend the Christ from arrest with pistol.

    The Christ was a peaceful man, not a pacifist. And he was not some person that blames an inanimate object for the sinfulness of man. He taught that each person was responsible for their own condition, and that each person has the choice to continue to be controlled by their sinful side, or to be reborn with the help from G-d and the Christ to live within and by the laws of G-d, which is based on unconditional love.

    But, but you may protest, what about when Jesus said if a man strikes you on one cheek, to turn the other cheek to be struck by the other hand. He was referring to being insulted with a slap from an open palm, not to a lethal attack. And when the disciple cuts off the ear of the priest, Jesus says to put the sword back in its sheath, not to take it off all together.

    But the bible does say that even elect will be deceived, and in their delusion, they are selling a distorted and perverted version of Christianity that promotes that being a defenseless victim is some how being a “true” Christian. That human beings are actually powerless to overcome the “evil wiles” of an inanimate object.

    What an abomination! The Christ came to free us from the lies, to free us from the manipulation and control of the Powers That Be. Instead, these “Christians” are the equivalent of the corrupt Pharisee’s attempting to keep us dis-empowered and enslaved to the current perverted and corrupt ruling structure.

    • I was baptized Christian (Lutheran) long before I had any ability to object. I have since reconsidered and rejected. Even so, I do not have any trouble adding the o to the term G-d. I’m rather more interested than concerned as to why you seem to fear spelling out God.

      Just askin’.

      • So out of everything that I wrote, the only question you have is why I don’t put an o when I write the word G-d?

        Nice. Or rather, the opposite.

        • I rather agree with Cliff H. Your comment was directed at Christians and only Christians. I gather Cliff H. is not a Christian, and I am certainly not. What sort of comments would you expect from anyone who does not share your beliefs?

          His question was neither nice nor not-nice. By the way, would you tell us, please, why do you omit the “o” when writing the word God?

        • Nah, Alan, CliffH was just being snarky. He was not serious about his question. Just look at how you asked the question versus the way he asked it.

          “I’m rather more interested than concerned as to why you seem to fear spelling out God.”

          versus, “By the way, would you tell us, please, why do you omit the “o” when writing the word God?”

          See the difference?

          So I’ll answer your question, because you actually mean it out of a real desire to know.

          I don’t write the full name of G-d as a reminder to myself that the essence of the I Am, of Yaweh, of the creator of the All, can never truly be known. That the full knowing of G-d will always remain a mystery, to be explored, to never truly be “owned”, while we are here in this physical existence

  20. I thought he was on to something when he said that we should focus on the conditions and not the tools… then right off the rails he went.

  21. Leave to a faith leader to complain about gun violence and ignore the fact that religion has been inspiring violence and radicalism by misguided “leaders” long before the first firearm was invented.

    They stop teaching history? Or is this person just uneducated?

  22. Hmmm…I attend the very large Independant 1st Baptist church of Hammond,Indiana. Extremely pro-2nd amendment,pro-gun,tooled up and the pastor has even mentioned he has a few guns. There are literally guns everywhere on a Sunday morning-and no violence. AND Mike Pence has spoken at my church. When evil ceases we’ll all disarm-but that won’t happen until the millennial kingdom of JESUS. American Baptist/Church of Christ screams left-wing Hillary losers. Allied with Moms demand Action…and I would venture to say they are apostates and heretics too. I’ll never get that minute back I scanned the article…

  23. Some of you will look at that picture and assume his eyes are glowing red because of the camera and lighting.

    I say it’s cause he sold his soul to the debbil.

  24. The same type of useless clods who are running around Chicago with guns also ran around Rwanda with machetes, and they seemed to have no difficulty murdering a million people.

    Methinks that Mr. Storey is an ignorant sh!t.

    • Methinks your comment is pejorative to sh!t. Sh!t at least has a useful purpose in clearing the body of waste products. I can’t think of any useful purpose Mr. Storey fulfills.

  25. And how will they get it done? That’s always my question.

    Half a million firearms in America……you have to know a very high percentage of people are going to say no.

  26. Killing in inter cities reminds us what humans were thousands years ago and to the section of the brain that resist all attempts to pacify and better oneself. Democrats have done a wonderful job using black people and culture to enrich themselves. Nowhere in the history of this country has squandered more opportunity for success than in Chicago. The culling continues only to be back filled by Hispanics and Muslims. Democrats have plans for them as well.

  27. Stop calling yourselves “leaders”. We have the same problem found in our a-hole neighbors who need a job and go to work for the government that we set up to SERVE us. People don’t need to be led, GOVERNMENT DOES. This guy’s parishoners might need to be led (who knows, they’re Baptist) but it’s more likely that anyone in a position of authority is there to lead their church house not their church body.

    Either way, STFU, nobody asked.

  28. If you’re religious don’t take this the wrong way. I’m not ragging on you I’m ragging specifically on the people in this story.

    This is the sort of shit that really pisses me off. A bunch of uneducated retarded blathering on about guns with the same type of ignorant drivel they spout on Sundays. Nearly none, if any, of them speak Hebrew and as such they read the Bible in English with no eye towards what most of it actually means. They don’t get the the word play. They can’t grasp the use of homophones for the purpose creating a homograph. They don’t understand that a statement like “”Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s” does not mean pay your taxes and tithe appropriately. It means give everything to God and nothing to Caesar for Caesar is but ashes as dust… Jesus couldn’t come right out and say that though. Of course they didn’t learn that in Seminary school because the whole place is staffed with retards these days.

    These people don’t know shit from Shinola about their own religion or anything else yet, generally speaking, they drive a very, very nice car. They sit there and take advantage of people constantly and no one calls them out on their obvious bullshit.

    Now they start in on the SJW/identity politics tomfuckery and even say things like “I’ll ask them to stop looting when you ask the police to stop shooting us.”… Christ on a motherfucking cracker. If you want to talk about politics like this and agitate against the 2A while using that fancy collar to do it, and thereby lend credence to your retarded statements, then it’s time for your Church to start paying some damn taxes.

    If you tards (folks in the story, not TTAG readers) want to know why religion is dying in this country go look in the mirror. Ya’ll need a good, swift kick in the dick. Don’t worry, if you pray hard enough it won’t hurt. God will take your pain away. Isn’t that what you told my Grandmother when she had cancer? Yeah, well I bet it works just as well when someone’s beating the fuck out of you. Maybe, maybe if you just pray hard enough God will cause the 9mm you really, really wish you had right now to materialize in your hand!

    You idiots are the religious equivalent of a chiropractor. A pox on all your houses.

    “Moreover, I saw under the sun that in the place of justice, wickedness was there, and in the place of righteousness, wickedness was there as well” -Eccl. 3:16 <– Directed at the morons in this story.

  29. That the vast majority of people with guns, “able to kill far more people” don’t kill anyone seems an argument that the problem is the people, not the guns.

  30. I agree with everything he’s said. And the “an armed populace is a polite one” is complete nonsense.

    But I still believe (A) in the 2nd Amendment and its rationale and (B) that I, personally, am safer with a gun because I’m not about to give up my right to (effective) self-defense in the hope that it might make “us” statistically safer.

  31. Talking directly to pastors, Storey said, “We’re called to love our congregations enough to tell them the hard truth. We have to love them enough to ask them to hand in their guns.”

    I’ve got some hard truth for the pastors. Criminals aren’t going to turn in their guns. Criminals don’t follow the law. Even if guns could magically disappear with prayer, criminals will still be killing people. A gun is a simple machine. The decision to kill someone doesn’t originate from a gun and will not be deterred by the absence of one.


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