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When local station ABC7 posted this video on their Facebook page, they “forgot” to mention that the man hit by the cop car stole the rifle from Walmart, pointed it at his own head several times and fired the rifle at least once. The national ABC news report says the suspect – who’s fine after being upended – “fired a shot.” As for why the video’s release was delayed two months, we have no idea. So, what do you think? Fair tactic?

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100 COMMENTS

  1. I’m an unabashed cop hater through and through so much so that I refuse to let family who are cops onto my property, no longer speak to old friends who became cops and refuse to shoot with cops at matches (for safety more than anything) but given what I’ve seen of this incident I’d say it was a fair tactic.

    My favorite part of the this whole ordeal is that the perp was able to pop off a trigger lock without any tools. Suck on that reality mandatory trigger lock proponents.

      • What’s stopping you? An over developed sense of moral superiority?

        Why not admire a man for admitting his prejudices exist and still coming to the conclusion that his prejudice is wrong for this specific case?

        • Why would I hate an entire group of people based on the actions of a minority within the group?

          Might as well get that white hood and sheet out and go burn some crosses in cops’ yards.

          Seriously guy, that sort of mentality is no different than that of the people that think that anyone who owns a gun is crazy, paranoid, and can’t be trusted.

      • The only group of people I feel that way toward are progressives.

        I do understand why he’d have such feeling towards cops based on some of my own personal experiences. Such as about 10 years ago while watching the fireworks with friends near the beach on the 4th of july, we were approached by 3-4 thug-life North Long Beach gang detail cops who pointed at a beer can about 15ft away on the boardwalk and asked if it was mine. I replied “no sir, I haven’t been drinking” (honest truth, and I was completely polite). The bastard then grabbed me, said I was a “f**king liar”, and face-planted me into the concrete, threw the cuffs on me, and dragged me 20ft by the handcuffs while face down to a nearby unmarked car. My 3 friends all got the same treatment, followed by accusations that we were setting off illegal fireworks, smoking weed, and other complete fabrications all in an attempt to get me to lose my cool. Then he started walking me towards the rear door of the car, and intentionally tripped me…. resulting in a Second face-plant. Well… that was the end of my life-long respect for police. I then demanded to know his badge number, what i’m being charged with, (fireworks) so I demanded he swab my hands for powder residue, he refused. Then said I was being arrested for drunk and disorderly, so I demanded a breath test, and again… he refused. So I calmly asked him if it was worth throwing his career away over a a bit of fun, kicking the sh*t out of some white kids. He didn’t say anything… just started laughing.
        At this point a crowd had begun to build, and I leaned foward with my nose bleeding all over my shirt and said… “they’re gonna looooove you in general population. i’m smiling just thinking about you getting your a$$ beat every day. I’ve got over a dozen witnesses… and the fact that you’re so f**king stupid that you haven’t noticed much my friend who’s bleeding over there looks just like the District Attorney. Seriously though… isn’t it uncanny? You still haven’t answered the question… was it worth it?”

        And yes, he was prosecuted for felony assault, sentenced 12 months, and fired from the police department. While it was a victory… I always wonder how many other people that SOB beat the hell out of and weren’t fortunate enough to have the DA’s son as a friend.

    • refuse to shoot with cops at matches (for safety more than anything)
      😀 😀 😀 😀

      Most of the cops I’ve seen shoot IDPA have been good shooters (they’re regular IDPA and USPSA shooters). But some of the ones showing up for their first match are scary as hell. They have almost no ability to shoot under the minor stress of a timer and crowd, and their safety is horrible: finger calls all day long.

    • Good comment. I like it when people advise me beforehand of their personality or mental defects. If we could just take this a step further and encourage them to wear color coded hats indicating the specific disorder, I’d have a much easier time avoiding idiots, Progressives and bigots throughout my day.

  2. Perfectly fair. Lethal force is lethal force, pure and simple. And it’s obvious that this cop’s hit rate is 100% in this case.

    • Agreed on the hit rate. 100% is far better than the 13% hit rate mag dump in the general direction.
      Can someone explain? is it a tactic of sorts to wait to ram said suspect until there is a wall as a backdrop?

      • Nope. Just wait for a relatively clear opening and used that 4500 pound V-8 squad car as the marvelous weapon that it is. A cop car at 40-50 mph has more one-shot stopping power than anything you could fire from the shoulder.

        • Accur81 –

          Just curious, are there general LE guidelines as to what is a go, no-go when an officer chooses to damage or destroy a police vehicle?

        • Oh, I don’t know. I think a Solothurn S18/100 or any other 20 mike mike AT rifle may give it a fair run for it’s money. 😀

        • Well, lets start a new debate. Which is the superior fight stopper, Impala’s or Crown Vic’s?

        • ^crown vic any day of the week.

          It’s been said. Lethal force is lethal force. There was one cop there who knew how to take care of business and one who could just squeal.

  4. What I thought I was going to see was the first cruiser rolling up and bumping the guy.
    Wow! I did not see that one a comin”! Still, If the guy was using deadly force then deadly force is justified. It wasn’t pretty but it was effective. It’s difficult to imagine he was in the hospital for only two days.
    I do believe the department (taxpayers) should compensate the home owner for damages.

    • Make the criminal pay for the damages and require the department to only pay for what the criminal can not cover.

      • I think it’ll be a long time before that bozo can compensate the damaged party working for $0.38/hr at the county metal shop.
        How long do you think the property owner should wait for his compensation?

    • I think it just caught him by surprise, it’s a natural reaction to seeing someone get thrown end over end like a rag doll.

  6. Let’s see, the cop acted immediately to end a dangerous situation without endangering any innocents all at the risk of only his life and the and the BG.

    Sounds and looks like an instant win to me

  7. Based on the way it turned out, I’d say it was a perfectly reasonable tactic in this case. He didn’t even spend all that long in the hospital, his injuries would have been much worse if they’d shot him.

  8. I cannot throw stones, for if he was truly a threat, I may have done the same thing. Who says a gun is the only way to stop a threat. It is probably the only way this suicidal maniac would have survived. Anyhow, it will be interesting to see how this plays out in an Arizona court. In my days in the USAF, our superiors would have probably congratulated us for stopping the threat, and then reprimanded us for damaging the car.

  10. I’ve always said that when I’m carrying in car, my gun is my backup weapon. My vehicle is my first weapon of choice.

    Good choice by the officer. As far as I’m concerned that’s just another part of environmental and situational awareness.

    • Yup – it’s like that guy who was assaulted in Manhattan by a motorcycle “club” a few years ago. Dude, it would have been nice to have a gun, but you’re packing a 6,000lb Range Rover. That’s a hell of a weapon against guys on crotch rockets.

  11. The perpetrator was acting out with a weapon. All of the police knew that. One of the police officers had a better plan to protect public. He is to be commended.

  12. The officer probably just had a commercial come over the cruiser’s radio for a free box of steaks with your cracked window replacement…

  13. Give this cop a medal for thinking outside the box, not killing anyone and getting the job done. It looks like the driver of the cruiser applied the brakes as he approached the perp. We’ll never know for sure but it looks like the cop saved the guys life by mowing him down with a two ton cruiser as opposed to what probably would have been a pound of lead.

  15. Isn’t there something to identifying the target as well as what is beyond the target that I recall being a basic fundemental? A four thousand pound load traveling at what appears to be at least 35 mph and the corresponding feet per second sounds like a lot of over penetration to me. Thank fully no innocents were in that sidewalk. Or the clearly visible wall but not vis able as to what is behind it. Reckless disregard. Could u imagine what a private citizen would be facing in charges and prosecution.

  16. I wouldn’t rule-out the tactic in a case where there was an imminent threat to innocent bystanders. In this case, I did NOT see any other people in the suspect’s vicinity. Therefore, the accelerated escalation of force seems to be unjustified.
    It’s not evident from this posting how much/little information the cop had about the rifle the suspect was holding. IF he suspected that it were a medium-calibre modern sporting rifle with a standard-sized magazine then the threat the suspect posed to the cop or anyone else who might have wondered on the scene could be estimated to be high. Conversely, IF he knew that the rifle was only a .22 with a small magazine then the threat should have been judged to be proportionately smaller.

    I didn’t hear/read the cop ordering the suspect to drop his gun. I didn’t see the suspect aiming at the cop.

    I’m not convinced that this was a justifiable level of force. Nor am I inclined to characterize it as wholly UN-justified. I’d be open to arguments for why the cop had no viable alternative measure available to him under the circumstances.

    • So you’re saying that less-lethal force (Taser, OC spray, gentle words, etc.) should be used against a perp armed with a firearm, but only depending on the caliber? I fail to see the logic here. You should ask all the people, cops included, who have been killed as a result of being assaulted by assailants utilizing .22-caliber firearms what their opinions are on the matter. Oh, wait a minute…

      For the record, the suspect in the video conducted an armed robbery, set fire to a church, burglarized a home, stole a car, and shoplifted the .30-06 rifle he was carrying from Wal-Mart. All this was done just before he made out with a Crown Vic.

    • A round from a .30-06 can travel 3 miles. It’s not wise to waltz around a residential area shooting a stolen .30-06. If that guy was in my neighborhood I’d want him taken out. Fast.

  21. Good thing there was not a child, or another innocent person behind that wall.. this was an idiotic tactic in this case given the cost of damage and the risk to pedestrians.This is why cops have rifles, I do believe it could have been wrapped up with 1 well aimed shot from that distance.

    • Can’t believe somebody actually used the word “cops” and the phrase “1 well aimed shot” in the same sentence.

    • I agree with your concern about others in the area.

      I don’t care that a car was used to attempt to kill him. Dead is dead and he’s lucky he’s not dead.

      However, it seems to be a stupid choice of tactics. That it worked out okay is pure chance. There could have been someone inside that car, or behind that car that he almost, and I don’t care if you’re Mario Andretti, there’s no way to control the vehicle once you start hitting things like people and cars and curbs.

      I think the cop was reckless and stupid, but I have no pity for the thug that was hit.

      • I agree, I thought about that wall. Unless it was coordinated and they knew there were no bystanders on the other side of that wall, it was a reckless move that could have gone either way. Definitely a GTA move. If the status on the other side of that wall was unknown, he should be fired. From what I see in the video allowing him to pass it wouldn’t have changed the situation.

  22. Was this coordinated and planned? It seems pretty drastic

    The suspect is being followed by a police car, there’s another car at the ntersection ahead and suddenly the police car comes out of nowhere and hits the suspect. Plus some concrete wall/decoration. The officer following the suspect seems surprised.

  23. My only issue is the cop could have been going slower and it still would have worked. Too bad there wasn’t room to hit him with a car door — less damage all around that way, cheaper for the taxpayers.

  24. Wow, I’m pretty much pro-cop but I can’t believe you guys are actually condoning that action…truly unbelievable. That cop used deadly force against a guy who DID NOT have the supposed rifle in his possession, had his BACK to the cop/cruiser and was just walking along. REGARDLESS what he had done, he faced no imminent threat to anyone and the cop accelerated and friggen ran into his back!! How is that any different than the other big cop story in the current headlines?

    I SEE THIS AS NO DIFFERENT THAN THE OTHER COP WHO SHOT THE BLACK GUY IN THE BACK WHO WAS RUNNING AWAY. NO DIFFERENT except the perp wasn’t killed in this case. Still, I think this cop should be brought up on charges. That was almost being judge, jury and executioner against posing no threat and who most likely would have just given up at that point. Totally unacceptable use of deadly force IMO.

    Absolute BULLCRAP!

    • MotoJB, this video doesn’t show everything. He was walking with the rifle under his chin and had already fired it at least once.

      • Ahh, ok… i stand corrected then. Thanks Chris.

        If he still had a rifle in his hands and wasn’t dropping it, then it’s a whole different story. Outside of that, improper tactics IMO.

      • Then post the video where you stated the guy fired the round. From what’s shown in this video is that this is no threat If he did fire a round at the cops, where’s the video proof. I’m sure as hell am not going to take their word for it. Cops lie, everytime time a video comes out it proves they lie.

    • MotoJB, if you go frame-by-frame or slo-mo, you’ll have no problem making out the rifle flying out of his hands at precisely the time the cruiser clears his legs out from under him. So, he most certainly did have the rifle. As to justification, I’m fairly certain all but the most dense among us would agree that if deadly force was justified in the first place, and it was, then running him down with a car would be just as effective as firing a gun. Sure, there’s always an element of risk no matter what you do. Same as shooting – you have to be aware of your backstop but nothing is ever 100% either.

      Pretty wild stuff, but fact of the matter is he had it coming. That he actually survived relatively unscathed is a freebie, and all the more amazing.

      Tom

  25. You expect too much out of the media.

    Remember – They are the dumbest people in American society next to BMV and transit staffs.

  28. As Shakespeare said, “needs musts”. The guy had a loaded rifle, had randomly fired it at least once and was in close proximity to occupied houses.

  29. I don’t at all care for this.

    Reckless and rash. At what point is ramming your cruiser into a person a better option than containing, or stepping out and shooting? It is NOT as if this was an active shooter with people bleeding out in the kill zone. This is a half-naked guy with a lever-action .30-.30.

    Yeah, the guy lived. I wouldn’t say that was the goal in the action. His survival was against the odds of the action taken.

    I don’t know that I’d argue charges should be filed. I don’t know that I’d argue the officer will win his civil suit against himself. I just see this as poor decision making, kind of absurd, and not to be emulated.

    • At least the cop managed to miss the SUV parked in the driveway. From my perspective, good aim. (Maybe that’s why the police officer chose the cruiser over pistol in the first place.)

  31. It seems like a great tactic until you figure the tax payers are now on the hook for the wrecked car, the wrecked wall, the lawyers for the guaranteed civil suit, and probably others I haven’t thought of yet.

  32. I recommended this tactic on the LA bank robbers with police using an armored car. Thief/Maniac walking the street not so much. Prefer stand off rifle shot to end the walkabout.

  33. So many rambos on this thread. The guy was clearly suicidal. Is this the appropriate response in so many cases where a disturbed person is pointing a gun at their own head? Let’s just execute people that are in a crisis. Sounds like good policy to me.

    Too many testosterone addled wanna be tough guy operators on this site.

    • So your idea would have been to let him continue on his spree? He already robbed a store, burglarized a home, set fire to a church, stole a car, and stole the rifle he was carrying in the moments before this video was recorded. Who knows how much more damage would have been done or how many people he would have harmed in the process if he was left to be on his merry way. You said it yourself: The guy is clearly suicidal – which means he doesn’t have any due regard for life, whether it be his or that of others. The correct action was to stop him. Imagine if nobody had the balls to stand up against bad folks like the fellow in the video…

    • Sounds to me like you have little experience dealing with people who are actually in a “crisis” as you would say. Did you learn that vocab in your liberal university? There’s a huge difference between having a personal crisis, and stealing a weapon and heading off into a residential area and acting with the intent to kill. In all your vast liberal teachings did they ever teach you about those kinds of people?

      Perhaps you need to return to your psychology professor and have them examine your warped sense of reality.

  36. I’d need more information than just what’s here. To me, it looks like attempted murder and the cop should face trial.

    There’s no death penalty for shop lifting. The police appear to have had an opportunity here to surround the suspect and negotiate his surrender, but they chose attempted murder.

    Yes, cop lovers, if that negotiation goes bad and he’s an immediate lethal threat, then waste him; but at that point, a different crime scenario has emerged. I’m just not seeing it at that stage here.

    If you’re cool with this unilateral attempted execution, just wait until you’re open carrying and someone SWATS you and you get run over.

  37. Are we sure the officer wasn’t driving an Audi police cruiser? They were “known” for unintended acceleration after all.

  39. This is all over the news media. I’m not a big fan of the PO-leece but this guy did good. He was clearly a lunatic. Other than shooting him what else is he gonna’ do? Use harsh language?

    • Now it’s coming out that this officer, back when he was on the NYPD, had an assault claim filed against him. That misconduct of his cost the City a $20,000 settlement with the victim.

      Now this rogue cop has skipped town and taken up in Arizona, where he’s apparently up to his old brutality tricks again. It’s just a matter of time before this lunatic kills (read: murders) somebody. Then we’ll all be scratching our heads wondering how this loose cannon was allowed to be a cop.

  40. Never mind “protocol” lets talk practical.

    1. Poor driving skilz- did you see that concrete wall right behind the pedestrian?
    2. Cracked Windshield, airbag deployment. Probably going to have to write that one off.
    3. Cost/benefit ratio on that use of patrol car in the “Force Continuum” a bit out of fiscal limits.
    Try explaining that to City Council next year on budget approvals…

    Bottomline- cop will need to be re-assigned to Parking Division for remedial drive school.

  42. This guy was not only shooting, not only committed multiple robberies, but SET FIRE TO AN OCCUPIED CHURCH.

    Should have ran him over faster. Extra points if operator of vehicle can make ‘whoop whoop’ sound at moment of impact.

  43. A few concerns about tactics…
    -The trailing police vehicle was WAY TOO CLOSE to a suspect with a rifle. The officer is at a tactical disadvantage inside the vehicle if the suspect decides to attack.
    – Potential crossfire situation after the ramming when multiple officers approach with guns drawn from all directions.

  44. He stole a 30-30 from Walmart. Has anyone ever seen 1 box of 30-30 in the last 6 years?
    Az news outlet reports no shots fired, he set fire to a church, robbed a house, and stole a gun. He pointed said weapon at his head and police.
    Weapon was unloaded.
    make your own conclusions

  45. Lot of emotions being stirred up here. The fact remains that regardless of personal fellings and taking into account only the video and 911 calls, its difficult to logically call this action by the officer anything but justified.

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