A lot of folks have expressed concern, to put it mildly, about the revelation of what we all knew all along: that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Explosives and Really Big Fires has created quite a database on American gun sales. While there’s nothing good (or legal) to come from a government registry of firearms owners and their holdings, old gun purchase forms remain of limited value at best.
From the Washington Free Beacon . . .
The Biden administration is in possession of nearly one billion records detailing American citizens’ firearm purchases, far more than Congress and the public has been aware of, according to new information from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives obtained by the Washington Free Beacon.
The ATF disclosed to lawmakers that it manages a database of 920,664,765 firearm purchase records, including both digital and hard copy versions of these transactions.
These are records from FFLs that have closed up shop. Some of those records are no doubt thirty-plus years old.
Old Form 4473s, the form federally licensed gun dealers require purchasers to complete which includes the purchased gun(s) make, model, caliber and serial number are a lot like sales leads. Why? Because like sales leads, the information on those 4473s ages rather quickly to the point of becoming of questionable value after a few years at most.
How so, you ask? People move, people die, and people buy and sell guns on a regular basis. Unless a state (such as Illinois) has a mandate that sellers retain the buyer’s information for a certain period of time (it’s 10 years in the Land of Lincoln), I suspect most gun owners don’t retain that information.
Even if someone didn’t sell a particular gun they purchased from a traditional dealer, it would be difficult for authorities to prove that the original buyer still has it after a few years. And the difficulty would increase sharply after ten or twenty years.
After all, not only do people buy and sell guns privately, but boating accidents happen with regularity as well.
Obviously guns which are purchased “without paperwork” in private sales will command a premium price among some, even in good times.
But for everyone else, the fact that the incompetents who toil away in the Biden regime have themselves a mountain of digitized 4473s isn’t something most of us should lose a whole lot of sleep about.
I was rowing my entire gun collection across one of one of Minnesota’s 10,000 lakes, I forget which one, in order to have it appraised at a gun shop on the opposite shore, when a rogue wave capsized my boat. Truly a sad day for me.
That joke wasn’t funny the first time it was told….100 years ago 🖕🤡.
What are you talking about??? It’s still funny today! 😂😂😂
And it’s funny because it’s true.
I ALWAYS laugh at that joke. I always laugh at reindeer antlers on cars at Christmas time, also.
I like laughing.
Look at the little troll go! What a simpering little cócksùcker.
Superior Spoilsport
Hey, nameless, brainless troll!
You weren’t funny the first time you started trolling on this site, and you still aren’t!! Maybe you can go away, and let the adults have a conversation??
..and you were a moron the day you were born….and leopards can’t change their spots.
The sea was angry that day, my friends.
The wreck of the Fitzgerald
I respectfully disagree. If your name comes up in an ATF records search for a specific firearm, you immediately become a suspect – and that information is then permanently recorded in ATF’s records. Further, the dealer that originally sold the gun – even 30 years ago, becomes recorded as a “crime gun dealer” now permanently recorded in ATF’s system. There is much more involved than is immediately obvious. than is
Boch is very nieve if he thinks the Fed Stazi would look at any this as according tohis theory.
Some dusty old sheet of paper = guilty unless can PROVE otherwise. “Must have hidden it”/”is lying”/etc
Over 30 yrs ago I bought a pistol at a local gun store, kept it for a few years and then traded it a gun show to licenced ffl dealer and then promptly forgot about it. A few years afterword two nice young men from the FIB came knocking on my door asking about said pitol. It turns out it had been used in an armed robbery 400 miles from me. As I had been the original purchaser they traced the gun to me. I didn’t remember the name of the dealer I sold it to and after asking a few more questions they politely went away.
“Ghost guns” = solution
http://gunlove.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/There-is-no-such-thing-as-a-ghost-gun-1-300×251.jpg
80% lowers!
Ghost gunner.
Jigs.
f*** form 4473s.
And all the employees at the ATF too, they can go get a life!
Imagine locking someone up for 10 years for possessing a gun but never hurting anyone. F*** ATF!
That gun registration prevented crime and saved lives!
I traded a pistol for a rifle and the guy went out and shot another guy with it.
Nobody knocked on my door.
neiowa,
I came to post the same sentiment.
A 15 year-old sales record showing that John Q. Public purchased a firearm IS evidence that John Q. Public has that firearm. The fact that John Q. Public sold that firearm to someone in a private sale 10 years ago is irrelevant unless John Q. Public has evidence of that sale.
This is no different than when a prosecutor decides to charge someone with murder even though the accused acted in righteous self-defense. When the prosecutor has clear evidence (such as the defender’s admission) that the defender killed the deceased, that is grounds for a murder charge. There is no doubt that there was a homicide (dead body plus the defender’s admission). That is all the prosecutor has to show to a jury for a conviction. At that point, the burden of proof shifts to the defender to provide evidence that his/her actions were justifiable.
All good points. If they have say a 4473 from 357 mag revolver from a 30 year purchase, and current receipt from a LGS showing 357 mag ammo bought equals time in prison.
Agree these records should be destroyed as soon as possible unconstitional bs
except that is illegal.
if we continue to let the government do illegal things.
we are doomed as a country.
In the early nineties I bought a Glock model 20 10mm the first day that they were available and then I discovered how hard it was to come by ammo for it so I sold it to someone that I knew. That someone decided to get into a high speed chase with the police and shot and nearly killed two officers before a State Trooper driving by happened to see the situation going down and killed him. His name was Scott Oberholtzer and he was killed by a Texas state trooper in McKinney Texas after he shoot and Allen and McKinney police officer. When I went to the police and told them that the gun was originally mine they couldn’t have cared less.
Yep.
Now we just someone to develop Stuxnet for ATF hard drives and data, “FedWorm” could speed up and slow down drive motors and add and subtract numbers from any serial number, zip code, or street address in their database. Is it even illegal to destroy or damage an illegal database? Likely they would have to go after the “bad guy” on some other pretext since claiming damage to something they aren’t allowed by law to have would be rather problematic!
I saw a show/video/something that showed the ATF keeping records from closed FFLs. Trailers full, conex boxes stacked top to bottom with every conceivable box size. I remember that the narrator said it would take plus 50 years to digitized everything. Plus acres size fed property. Wish I could remember where i saw that.
That’s not the point. Your name is now in their records. When, if, the time comes that the government has seized all power the thugs will break down your door to seize whatever you have.
⬆️ will welcome the ‘thugs’ into his hovel and serve them tea and crumpets. Then he’ll let them know who on his street also owns gun.
Hitler did exactly that with the Jews.
It’s not like any law enforcement agency has ever kicked in somebodys door, shot them in the face, flashbanged their baby or confiscated their property all based on old outdated information or anything so we should be good.
As saying goes, Shire-man, there is always a first for everything. Getting complacent and saying “it cannot happen here” is exactly how you end up losing your guns, and other rights. I pray it does not happen here, but looking at the fools we call leaders, I would not put it past them to try.
They aren’t even the real problem; it’s the Knights in shining polyester that are willing to do it that are the real issue. Without enablers they are just talking heads. Nothing changes. Apparently.
Looks like what happened to my boat. Damn my luck.
Does anyone still believe the #400000000 is gunz American’s own?!? As far as I know none of the gunshops I purchased a gat from has gone out of business…
From “Backdoor National Firearms Registration Scheme” published by TTAG in 2009
ATF “falsely calls every traced gun a “crime gun”. They create meaningless and misleading statistics on “Time to Crime” (in reality “Time to Trace”), mythical most popular crime guns (actually most often traced) and Source States for Recovered Firearms which implies illegal gun trafficking but could be entirely legal interstate used gun transfers or people simply moving to a different state. ATF is using deliberately misleading phrases and being openly and fundamentally dishonest with Congress and the American People. This is a serious situation.
ATF inappropriately uses these mythical statistics to target certain gun dealers. Each trace records the first selling dealer in addition to the first retail purchaser. ATF compiles the number of mythical “crime gun” traces for each dealer. Dealers showing the most traces (basically all high-volume dealers) are targeted for intense additional scrutiny during annual inspections in an attempt to drive these dealers out of business.”
The Federal government is disregarding the law against creating a centralized gun registry.
Biden also willfully violates his oath of office every day when he flagrantly disregards immigration laws, so lawlessness is his MO.
FJB
As far as I know it is against the law currently to keep any kind of gun registration record by the Federal Government and any background check information is supposed to be destroyed within 48 to 72 hours. The vast majority of American gun purchases are done legally, and any firearms bought at the time complied with the law at the time. We all know Government Agencies make their own rules without even going through Congress and even the Presidents write excessive Executive Orders many of which get overturned in the Courts because they are clearly unconstitutional. You really have only one choice unless you are willing to give up your 1st, 2nd and 4th Amendment Rights and that is to fight if you feel your rights are being trampled. We need to make them pay for each and every transgression of the laws they swore an oath to uphold and there should be no compromise. Freedom is the most precious thing we have and if you are not willing to fight back you deserve exactly what you are going to get and you will be sorry, trust me.
Kinda like shooting an unarmed woman holding a baby against all laws regarding the use of force?
I’m sure Randy Weaver has opinions about that.
I take it you people don’t believe in God. Fighting is not the answer and there is a plan that will be carried out wether you fight back or not. People started getting microchipped. This is a means to a new system and conclusion of this one. The new one will not last and Christ will set everything straight. The Bible shows what we are supposed to do as true Christians
Yeah, it is.
Notwithstanding the hacking and security issues, it’s not a huge technological leap to put millions of digitized 4473’s through a handwriting recognition program, and voila, now all those records can be searched with the push of a button instead of scrolling them in front of an overworked staffer.
The ATF isn’t allowed do this by law, so they’re doing everything they can, within the tightly construed letter of the law, to get as close to that point as possible, and the last hurdle is a mere bit of hidden legislation to achieve their final goal.
Anything the feds do is a matter of concern. When it relates to guns, it’s more than a matter of concern, it’s a direct threat.
Yes sir. Look at us subjects north of your border; the ar is “classified” as restricted, i.e.: registered with the Proper Authorities™. Come May 1st I can thus expect a knock on my door one late night/early am. That ain’t gonna go real well. Most especially for me I imagine, at the end of it.
Baaaaaaahahahahahaha. Look at this decorated five star general in the Canadian Keyboard Kommando Korps 🤣🖕🤡!
Nameless, brainless troll,
YOU talking about “Keyboard Kommandos” is some kinda funny s***. Begone, troll, the cable awaits.
Why don’t you arm up and come and try to take my property, see how that works out for you? Yeah, thought so. And what is it with you dickless leftists always adding a train of emojis or wtf they’re called to the end of every boringly redundant insult that passes for speech with you fools. You’re worse than spoiled children left unsupervised. Why don’t you go out and try to get laid, or learn a skill, or do something halfway decent with your time rather than proving to the world what an utter waste of time and oxygen you all are? Must suck to be both that stupid and that bored.
Semper Fiesta
Same, possum. Might be a short party but it will be a party.
Over 30 yrs ago I bought a pistol at a local gun store, kept it for a few years and then traded it a gun show to licenced ffl dealer and then promptly forgot about it. A few years afterword two nice young men from the FBI came knocking on my door asking about said pitol. It turns out it had been used in an armed robbery 400 miles from me. As I had been the original purchaser they traced the gun to me. I didn’t remember the name of the dealer I sold it to and after asking a few more questions they politely went away.
A lot of American gun owners will be on this list myself included. Doesn’t particularly bother me because I’m never giving up my stuff regardless of what laws come down the pipe or how the current regime or any future regimes choose to utilize this list.
Aint the only. one brother! Me too!
“ATF’s Hundreds of Millions of Digitized Gun Sales Records Isn’t As Bad As It Sounds” NO IT”S WORSE “Federal authorities are explicitly prohibited by law from establishing a firearm registry or from using data collected through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) for developing a registry of gun ownership (18 U.S.C. 926(a)(3) and 28 C.F.R. 25.9
(b)(3)), although a federal registry is permitted and does exist for a small class of firearms specified in the 1934 National Firearms Act, such as machine guns and short barreled rifles and shotguns (26 U.S.C. 5841). So they are in violation of federal law. Please tell us who was arrested and how long are they going to prison for. We’ll wait.
Biden is demanding more funding for the ATF..All gun owners need to call their senators and reps and tell them NO!!..NOT ONE CENT!!.. in just a few short months the ATF will make some big moves on braces and 80% lowers…the same as bump stocks..
All this paranoia about registration is laughable. If a certain firearm is outlawed it becomes totally useless to you. You could not use it in a self defense situation or sell it or take it to a public range and even at a private range some one could have a neighbor complain about noise and call the cops who would then see you shooting it.
The 1/4 million fine, prison time and loss of a job would not be worth trying to keep it even if you just kept it at home because if there was a fire or someone died of natural causes the cops or the fire department could discover it when they entered your home.
I had a neighbor who called the emergency first responders when his mother died and when the cops came into the house they without a warrant started looking in closets and drawers and under furniture.
Remember the government owns you and they do as they please when they please and there is not a damn thing you can do about it if you want to go on living and breathing. The Government and the cops do not uphold the laws they make them up as they go along.
Unless you need to shoot someone with it. Then it works great! haha!
Someday, the shit will hit the fan, and the laws won’t matter anymore. And those guns will be extremely useful. Extremely! Tuck it away, and put it somewhere safe.
In the words of the legendary Walter Williams on banning guns: “Well, hold on a minute! You never know, you might need to do some killing.”
LOL
Dacian is trying really really hard to shrink your balls into balls the size of Dacians. No dacian, no.
I bet it’s a blue state. Sounds blue.
They “think” they own you. But they don’t.
More the reason to prepare for Walter William’s words of wisdom.
Pew pew.
Greta is all over the internet waiting for you, get back to drooling over her underaged pictures. Dacian is a degenerate pervert.
Lol. Speaking of, where has Geoff the (fully vaxxed and boosted) Florida Pervert been?
Also, guns rule!
I remember driving through South Central L.A. coming home from concerts in the 80s and 90s. On a weekend night, you could hear automatic weapon fire from Gang bangers partying. I am sure that some of those weapons(which you do not hear at night anymore) are hidden in the family home of residents of penitentiaries and those that are forward thinking enough to pass them down through the family, just in case they are needed in the future.
Having that protection is priceless when you really need it, so those weapons are not unusable. The people that they belonged to may have been in prison and are really only concerned about keeping their and the family out of the graveyard. a 1/4 million dollars? They will never pay it. If the illegal weapons do get found, good luck on proving who owned them – how could you charge a 93 yo woman for a firearm that is hidden in a crawlspace by one of her gangbanging grand, great-grand sons, daughters, nieces, nephews, or other family members.
Procession is 9/10ths of the law.
A friend had just bought a used car, we’re out cruising , decided to play speed racer.
We got pulled over by a K9 unit, dog went nuts. The cop ripped the back seat out and found a bag of weed. He got charged for possession of marijuana.
” I just bought this car.” didn’t matter
dacian the stupid,
Is it even POSSIBLE for you to make sense??? I thought not. An unregistered gun works just fine, idiot. if I’m ALREADY engaged in criminal behavior, are you actually stupid enough to think that the lack of “registration” is going to deter me??? Don’t answer; we are all well aware of how stupid and uneducated you are.
It is already a federal crime to deface the serial number on a firearm . . . so that means no one does it, right?
Once again, dacian the demented, you are too stupid to insult.
Digitizing forms makes them easily searchable. You don’t need to retype all of the information, rather now a document can be scanned and it’s converted into a PDF with searchable text.
Search for someones SSN and if they can’t produce the guns they purchased or a paper-trail, they go to gulag.
Can’t understand what the fuss is about. All nations keep these kinds of records as a matter of course. I they did not there would be no point to them in the first place. THe UK Police Forceshave kept s criminal recordssince their inception and I’m at present reading about a true murdercase that was investigated by a Mr Inspector Jack Whycher back in the 1860s who was a founding member of the Lndon Criminal Investigative Police. The Defence Agencies of the United States keep records in the USA going back to the individuals mostly Officers who served in the War of Independence and the Civil War.
AS for those who think that they would not give up theright o to ownership of unnessessary arms YES you bloody well would if gun was pointed at your head. It’s not so much about owning guns. I’d have to think seriously about it if I lived in such a dangerous and uncivilised society as the USA, but the sheer quantity available [ at least one legally held fire arm for each citizen and maybe half as many again, though nobody is certain!, held illegally out there and the crazies, misfits and criminally inclined and who get their hands on them.
But I do not live in such a country. I live in the UK where though the ownership of firearms is not, as most Americans suppose banned outright, there are quite Draconian licensing requirements as too ownership and, for the General Public self defence is NOT one of them. The other thing I do not understand is just why Americans seem to think that it is nessessary to own so many firearms when the fact is that a half decent 9mm SLP or .38 revolver is as much handgun as anybody needs and a decent bolt action 7.62/.300 calibre rifle for those that want to hunt.
On a final note. In 2019 there were 784 ILLEGAL DEATHS in the UK. which in per capita terms is I suppose around the European average. These cover all homicides by whatever means including GUN CRIME, Knife Crime, Domestiic violence [ the greatest cause] Acts of Terrorism and MANSLAUGHTER where [illegal] death was not the intent. In per capital terms that equates in the USA to around THREE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED illegal deaths a year including GUN CRIME.
“a half decent 9mm SLP or .38 revolver is as much handgun as anybody needs”
Thanks for telling us what we need. I shall reciprocate by telling you what you need — a glass rectum so you can see where you’re going.
No need to thank me. I have only your best interests at heart.
😀
I need rapid firing arms with big ass drums and belt fed receivers to defend myself from people who can’t leave me alone and can’t stop telling me what I can and can’t have on the basis of what they think I “need.” These kinds of people are intolerant bigots, and are not “live and let live” kind of people. They have ideals, and utopias to force on you with “votes.” Instead of the kings and queens and tyrants of old with armies at their fingertips, they have become tiny micro tyrants with votes at their fingertips. It’s all quite sickening.
“I live in the UK”
my aunts were robbed at gunpoint in the uk.
Albert, there is so much wrong with your thinking. I strongly suggest you read upon the fundamental differences in the way our two nations came into being.
Americans are NOT Europeans. My intention is not to insult you, but remember this… you, being a Brit, were born as a subject of the Crown. We Americans are free-born.
And I thought we told them to jog on in 1775.
‘wE aMeRiCaNs ArE fReE bOrN’.
Lol, keep telling yourself that, slave!
“…The other thing I do not understand is just why Americans seem to think that it is nessessary to own so many firearms ….”
(serious answer)
I have a very well equipped shop especially for automotive projects. I am a tool demon. I don’t cut corners. I have many tools that or a one or two time use a year, but it is the correct tool for the job. Using channel locks on a bolt? Not happening. I have screwdrivers of every length and type you can imagine…Why? Because there is a right tool for every job.
(American answer)
“Why? Because EFF you , that’s why!”
IT’s not the Bill Of Needs, limey.
And when they want whatever you have left, they will come straight to your door and take that too. You can’t really be this stupid, can you? No wonder the yanks booted yer collective asses out of the country. “If ye love wealth better than liberty, servitude more than the animated contest for freedom…” and all that. Especially the “crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you” part. Fool.
To Albert
The death rate between the two countries is of course dramatic but here in Capitalvania U.S. life is considered cheap and expendable and the Far Right will tell every one “Losses can never be too high”. Adolf H was fond of that saying too and he would have loved the Far Right in the U.S. as they are his kind of people in all respects.
Of course Dacian would hate on capitalism and then try to draw a comparison with our system with Adolf Hitler. It was so banal and stereotypical – Not surprising at all, and just reinforces our stance that he is ideologically programmed.
Also, the USA is soooooo horrible, but yet Dacian will never leave. This is a common item among these types. America sucks, because they don’t have medicare for all, or some freebie the government isn’t handing out, thus America sucks. And it sucks so bad, they would never leave. That’s how bad it sucks.
And this is why we’re free citizens and you’re a subject of the Crown. You must really love the cage they keep you in. Have they neutered you yet? If not, don’t worry. They’ll get to it.
He sounds neutered enough to me. Must be a british thing.
We “need” guys like you to pipe down. Why does anyone “need” to eat crappy take out food? Heart attacks kill more people than guns. Why do people “need” cars that go over a certain speed limit? Cars kill more people than guns. And neither is an explicit right in the Constitution, but the owning and carrying of firearms is.
In other words, yours is a dumb argument. Shut your hole.
I do not know why the BATFE doesn’t go after tobacco products, we really dont NEED it.
Albert,
“Can’t understand” is kinda the story of your life, isn’t it, subject? Well, I guess we can make allowances for nitwits who still seem to think they need a monarchy. Have fun with that, subject. We prefer to be citizens. Citizens own firearms. We actually get to tell the government “no”. But y’all subjects wouldn’t know about that.
Please, Albert, stay in the U.K. Where you will feel safe being a slave, and at the mercy of the government and the police force. And why are you sticking your nose into Americans guns rights in the first place? You bent over and gave up what guns you had up a long time ago. If Americans are considered “barbarians” by folks like you (uncouth, whatever) because we refuse to give up our guns, so be it! We can still shoot back when our increasingly tyrannical government decides to go door-to-door. Or at least try. You on the other hand? Maybe you can beg for mercy at the hands of your oppressors when they come to haul you away. For it can happen in your neck of the woods, too, sad to say.
The only gun owners who should be concerned regarding the compiled list are the first gun owners who the government/ATF selects from that list to make an example of to encourage compliance by all……followed closely by all on the list. Actually, this initial list is merely seeking complacency by gun owners so there will be negligible resistance against the following lists to be compiled. Don’t fret your little self. You shan’t be left out. You will be on one of their lists.
All of us are on one list or another. That’s the way the G works.
Ralph,
Exactly so. Our strategies and tactics need to be around how we defend ourselves from government intrusion, illegal actions, tyranny. How we discourage the government from doing bad things to us? How we get good people into government.
“How we discourage the government from doing bad things to us?”
well, first you have to get to the “we” part. but modern “rightists” are largely isolates who see social interactions (including conflict) in terms of themselves, not in terms of any unit or militia. at this point they energetically refuse any notion of nation or society or squad that doesn’t start and end with them. so that “we” part is largely out of reach so far.
Hey, rant7,
Have you been taking dacian’s idiot pills?? That pathetic projection of a rant sounds like pure dacian the stupid. I would suggest you “do better” but I fear that is beyond your meager talents.
I can make lists too. So those people can FO.
“I can make lists too”
they can, and will, act on their lists. can you?
Yep.
Rant7; seriously? So what then, just roll over and die? Guess we won’t be seeing you on any hills. Thanks. For nothing. Our children thank you as well, as, I’m sure, will yours.
Don’t need to make lists, just wait outside their office or building, do what’s needed.
“The only gun owners who should be concerned regarding the compiled list are the first gun owners who the government/ATF selects from that list to make an example”
you guys think government is so terrible, but you’re naive. when they start the examples they won’t consult any list, they’ll just pick someone and start. remember, the target isn’t the guns, it’s you.
“it would be difficult for authorities to prove that the original buyer still has it after a few years”
you don’t understand. the ones behind all this don’t think you have any rights. they won’t care to prove anything, they’ll just presume you’re guilty (of being a potential problem to them) and act accordingly.
“The ATF disclosed to lawmakers that it manages a database of 920,664,765 firearm purchase records, including both digital and hard copy versions of these transactions. ” Not so fast Kemosabe. What this means is that their management consists of regulatory control over the FFL Dealers hard copy retention records with the real detailed purchase registration. ATF agents can review these records in person at the FFL’s location, but they are not available on line for AI analysis. Although I am sure the illegitimate Regime would want on line registration ASAP. Of course the answer to that is 1 Maccabees 2:17 to end of chapter.
Anyone notice the recent change in the 4473, putting owner info along with gun details on the first page to facilitate digitizing/copying?? By coincidence, I’m sure. Nothing to see here, move along, Stupid, Little Peep.
Can someone please share the updated copy of the 2A. Biden keeps vomiting words to the effect that when the 2A was passed there were restrictions on who and what arms were permitted….couldn’t buy a cannon. I must have the old version 1.0, only says….. “….shall not be infringed.” Nothing, nada, nuthin’ about who/where/cannons. Even looked on the back. Zilch. Constitutional Crickets……
Hmm…..on second thought, don’t need BiteMe’s version. My V1.0 is good enough for me. Let’s play the game by them rules. GAME ON!!!! And, our first contestant, Mr. Butto O’Dork…..tall, slender, of Texas and dim wit…..is selected by President BiteMe to be the first one through the gun confiscation wheel-of-fortune door. C’mon Down, Butto…..bring your list with you!!!!!!
Their lists only carry the power me allow.
“Nothing, nada, nuthin’ about who/where/cannons.”
“arms” included cannon in the well-regulated militia.
A militia is a group, a group is three or more people.
Not only was the citizenry allowed to own cannons, they were openly commissioned to make and stockpile them , if able , along with any and all inventions and alterations that might make American arms superior to any enemy. When the US constitution was penned, ships of war were rented, leased, burrowed or purchased from privateers.
This is why Joe Biden needs to understand as well as many Americans, that every plane, ship, missile etc. in Americas arsenal belongs to you and I , not some other entity called ‘the government’. WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT. If we [the citizenry] want, need and or require the use of any military base(es) , it’s occupants and the resources within , to defend the US Constitution and our borders , they are ours . You and I have duel ownership in every weapon with a US symbol on it .
The records should ALL be destroyed with no copies physical or digital and no end run by giving it to a private company that will then give it to China. However I am pretty sure China already has all these records.
It won’t be though. Even if the records are not 100% it provides a good baseline for the future total ban of all gun ownership and mandated execution if not outright total extermination of every single solitary United States citizen that owns a gun.
I bought two “new to me” handguns this week. One, a Ruger MK I 5 1/2″ bull barrel, has a 4473 attached. The other, a Gen II Colt SAA .45, doesn’t. The seller of the Colt mentioned that as a selling point, and I guess it is, but since no record of private sales is required in Florida my story is, “I sold the Ruger.”
all the gunms I had were purchased by people who later died.
You’ll have to ask the families what happened to those gunms.
Is that the marsupial version of a ‘buyback’? Sounds like a good racket.
WOW, WHAT A FUDD THING TO SAY!
Registration-Confiscation-Democide. This is the way of things since the beginning of the 20th Century. The ONLY purpose for a gun registry of ANY kind is to confiscate at a later date! And the dry bones of over 200 million gun control victims testify to this!
No less Fudd than a “boating accident,” we have those in Florida too, but at least “I sold it” is believable because we don’t have to record private transactions. How many citizens would like to be able to say that? Fudd? Me? No. I hunt and I guess those two handguns fall in the Fudd category. For those that know a nice handgun when one falls on top of their head.
I meant to say for those that don’t know a nice handgun when one falls on top of their head. Which reminds me. There’s a 6″ Colt Woodsman that’s nice. $800 out the door. If liking firearms like that makes me a Fudd; sign me up.
In addition to being a FUDD, you’re a contemptible coward to boot!
Gun Expert, never been called a coward before. Congratulations! You’re the first! I have to disagree though. I do admit to being scared shitless a few times, but I did my job anyway.
“Gun Expert”. It is to laugh, brainless, nameless troll.
You MAY qualify as an expert onanist. Go visit the cable.
I don’t like Biden but can we at least stop saying this is “his” fault. This sh*t has been happening under both parties. Getting mad at the current party in charge is short-sighted and won’t lead to any resolution. “The republicans will save us” is utter bullsh*t. It happened under their watch and they just pander to gun owners but don’t do much to roll back the injustices that have grown against law-abiding gun owners for years.
You are not wrong.
” can we at least stop saying this is “his” fault. This sh*t has been happening under both parties ”
True enough, but at this moment in time Biden is the one who is pushing it, so the shit falls on his head.
I think the shit falls in his diaper?
You can tell when he’s having a BM, he gets this pause look, then a little silence, then continues with his speech.
I’m quite proud of our Pestident, a man who can shit his pants like that in front of cameras and foreign dignitaries really tells the world what America is made of.
Let’s Go Brandon
As JWT has stated elsewhere, send bachelors.
But then the children will learn nothing. We must think of the children.
Wait. Did I miss something? Records as much as 30 years old… This is Biden’s fault of course because he and no one else has been POTUS for 30 years. Jesus, that’s pathetic.
The 2A is actually doing just fine. The vaporware collapse of the 4A is the far more immediate concern.
Remember boys and girls. It’s not the President, the HOR or even the Senate that truly infringe on your Rights. The danger lies in the nameless faceless Bureaucracy that controls 99% of everything the Government does. Set up specifically by those in both the Republican and Democrat parties to do exactly what it is doing. The dirty work that could never survive in the light of day. Under the scrutiny of a public vote. Neither party holds a moral or ethical high ground in the tactic. Simply because it has been done by design over the last 100 years. The Founding Patriots warned the populace of this very thing even before the founding and implementation of our government system. None are more guilty than the very people it was designed to control. Because of voter apathy and not wanting to be bothered with the details. Each citizens ceded their responsibility to be the guardian of their Freedom and Liberty. Choices were made, consequences will be felt and no matter how much pissing and moaning is done on the Interweb. Nothing will change without the actions of each person effected. Our Founding Patriots came to realize this 247 years ago this April 19th. They chose to stop pissing and moaning about the Injustices forced upon them by a Tyrannical Regime and acted with courage and determination. To be Free. Not knowing if they would be successful or even survive to see the next day. many did not, but those that remained continued the fight. Because the cause was just and the desire to be Free was stronger than the Fear of Death. For they understood a life lived in Fear of One’s oppressors. Was no true life, but simply surviving with No Freedom to live as One wished. To survive is about choices. To Live Free is about being willing to do what is necessary to be Free. Even in the face of death. Lessons hard won down through history and unfortunately easily forgotten. Each must choose. To simply survive or to be Free.
Now more than ever it’s very important to just make your own guns when you can. The feds can’t keep lists of weapons they don’t know exist. Even if you don’t recognized the Child Sniffer & Chief as the threat he is the next ‘totally legitimate democrat president ever’ is not likely to be any more friendly to the 2A than President Harris is.
“ATF’s Hundreds of Millions of Digitized Gun Sales Records Isn’t As Bad As It Sounds”
Well, yes it is as bad as it sounds. Its costing the tax payer millions $$$ annually. The ATF was suppose to have destroyed them (the personally identifying parts) within 24 hours of the background check completion according to the FOPA. All of these records still have peoples personally identifying information on them. Yes, its serious – its a blatant violation of law for that personal information to have been maintained, and the records are used to support constitutional violations of the 4th and 5th amendment by retaining that personally identifying information without warrant because the records are searchable.
Millions of law abiding American citizens have literally had their constitutional rights under the 4th and 5th amendments violated due to the ATF holding personally identifying in violation of law without warrant or legal authorization enacted by congress.
I think that’s pretty serious.
John, obviously you are a liberal or an idiot or both. So the ATF breaking the law of the land is no big deal? How absurd is that thinking. Can I pick and choose what laws I need to follow?