Apalachee High School, scene of Wednesday's tragic shooting, in happier times. Photo courtesy NAESP.

In an all-too-familiar scene that sickens all Americans, a shooting at Apalachee High School in Winder, Georgia, on Wednesday morning claimed the lives of four people—two students and two teachers—and left nine others injured, according to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI). The incident, which took place around 10:20 a.m., as expected has reignited the usual dash by some legislators, organizations and media to call for more gun legislation before those who were sadly lost have even been mourned. That it is an election year with the office of president on the line will only make such calls more vocal.

In the incident, unlike at Uvalde, Texas, where 21 people lost their lives and 17 others were injured at Robb Elementary School on May 24, 2024, law enforcement, school administrators, teaches and even students in Winder were quick to respond, limiting the potential casualties. The suspected shooter, a 14-year-old student, was quickly apprehended after a brief confrontation with a resource officer. The shooter is set to be charged as an adult with murder. Authorities also arrested Colin Gray, the father of the shooter, on charges including involuntary manslaughter and second-degree murder for his alleged role in allowing access to the firearm used in the attack, described as an “AR platform-style weapon.”

As investigators continue to gather information, political leaders have begun weighing in on the larger issue of gun violence. President Joe Biden, in an official statement from the White House, called the shooting “another horrific reminder” of the need for stricter gun laws, urging Congress to pass measures such as an assault weapons ban, universal background checks and safe storage requirements. Vice President Kamala Harris, caught up in the middle of a contentious presidential election, echoed these calls, decrying the ongoing “senseless tragedies” that plague American schools.

“It’s a sick and angry world for a lot of reasons and we’re going to make it better. We’re going to heal our world. We’re going to get rid of all these wars that are starting all over the place because of incompetence,” her opponent, former President Donald Trump said Wednesday during a Fox News Town Hall in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. 

Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp offered condolences to the victims’ families and promised to provide state resources to assist in the investigation, but his office has not commented on any potential policy changes in response to the shooting. Georgia, a state with relatively lax gun regulations, has faced increasing scrutiny for its laws following recent mass shootings. In 2022, Kemp signed legislation allowing residents to carry concealed firearms without a permit, which has drawn both praise and criticism in light of this most recent shooting.

Meanwhile, the Apalachee High School shooting has prompted further calls for legislative action at the state level. A Senate study committee on safe firearm storage was already scheduled to convene, with Democratic lawmakers pushing for stricter regulations that would require gun owners to better secure firearms, particularly in homes with children. Meanwhile, Republicans in the state government have largely focused on expressing condolences and emphasizing mental health and school safety measures over additional gun regulations.

Various organizations have also offered statements on the shooting, some better navigating the politics of the issue than others.

“Our hearts go out to the community of Winder, Georgia, during this difficult time,” said National Association of Elementary School Principals (NAESP) Executive Director L. Earl Franks, Ed.D., CAE. “At NAESP, we believe families of students at Apalachee High School—and in every single school across this country—deserve to send their children to school with the confidence that they will return home unharmed. That is the promise that every school makes to the students in its care, and NAESP will continue to advocate for policies that put children’s and educators’ safety first.”

Meanwhile,  Nick Wilson, senior director of Gun Violence Prevention at the Center for American Progress, made the most of his opportunity to call for legislation.

“I send my deepest condolences to all of the loved ones of the students whose lives were lost today, and to the many students who will live with the trauma of today’s attack for the rest of their lives. What happened at Apalachee High School today is not normal, but it is increasingly commonplace. Today’s shooting was the 218th shooting at a K-12 school this year. Children heading back to school should not live their lives in fear,” Wilson said in a statement. “While we are still learning details about the shooter and how the guns used in today’s attack were obtained, Georgia has some of the weakest gun laws in the country. And the risk of this type of attack has only increased since Gov. Brian Kemp (R-GA) signed a bill that repealed concealed carry permits in Georgia into law in 2022. Commonsense gun legislation saves lives. It doesn’t have to be this way.”

Wilson’s numbers are questionable. A USA Today article put the number of shootings at 23, while another article placed the number at 45, both a far cry from 218. The various numbers reveal an obvious disregard for accurate data or at the very least, how to identify a set of data, when it comes to pushing an agenda. Wilson also used the oft-repeated buzzword of legislators seeking to pass gun laws by dressing it up with the label of “commonsense.” But such descriptions undermine the complexity of offering true solutions and serve to simply alienate and politicize a majority of stakeholders in the issue.

Other groups were quick to capitalize on grieving Americans to push more gun laws. The usual ones such as Everytown for Gun Safety, the Brady organization and Giffords all offered their boilerplate statements on passing more laws to stem gun violence, while organizations such as The United States Conference of Mayors, the Asian Pacific American Medical Student Association, the National Education Association, the New Jersey Education Association, the ill-named Alliance for Gun Responsibility, even some rando candidate running for U.S. Senate in Florida weighed in to make her political points.

Other groups felt compelled to also least weigh in with statements of support on the tragedy such as the American Speech-Language-Hearing Association and a Florida high school, Eustis High, among others. Silent on the issue to this point has been gun rights organizations, where a search of statements online revealed not a single one issued.

As the investigation continues, both sides of the gun debate are gearing up for what is likely to be an intense battle in the months ahead. But for now, the community of Winder is left grieving, as families mourn the loss of two students, 14-year-olds Mason Schermerhorn and Christian Angulo, and two teachers, Richard Aspinwall and Christina Irimie.

90 COMMENTS

  1. And again I ask just how would any of their proposed laws, bans, license/permit schemes, taxes, or other regulations have in any way prevented this or any other school shooting or any other violent crime? The only 2 groups protected by any of these bad ideas are criminals and government officials. Leaving the majority of the populace unarmed, and unprotected in the crossfire.

    • ^^^+100

      What I can say with a high degree of confidence, without reviewing video or other investigation, is this: at least one of the victims in this incident died trying to fight a gun with their bare hands. I further believe that almost always happens during one of these shitstorms.

      Commonsense gun tactics save·lives. It doesn’t have to be this way. Armed resistance reduces casualties, and the capacity for armed resistance creates deterrence. .

  2. So, an armed good guy with a gun on premises stopped the shooting quickly, which has been totally ignored, by design, by the MSM. An armed teacher may have been able to hold the number of dead to one, and that would have been the shooter.
    …..Meanwhile, anyone know the death toll for just Chicongo so far this week? – also totally ignored by MSM, again by design.

    • “So, an armed good guy with a gun on premises stopped the shooting quickly, which has been totally ignored“

      There were actually two armed SRO on premises.

      With four dead and nine critically injured, I’m not sure I would tout that as a success story.

      It seems the determined shooter wasn’t deterred by armed security and was able to kill 4 humans and injure nine more before they were confronted.

      Actually this is evidence against the effectiveness of armed guards at schools.

        • Miner, OVER 400 armed responders were at Uvaldi with their thumbs up their asses for over 2 hours before a Border Patrol agent broke the cock-blocking “stalemate” with a borrowed shotgun. Tell us again the statistics for THAT shooting… shooter stopped in mere minutes in this case seems to be a pretty good outcome comparatively, so yes, go fuck yourself.

      • Minor Irritant, if this is evidence against the effectiveness of armed guards in schools, then by your same fucked up reasoning, scorched kitchen cabinets and baked-on residue in a pan and white powder to clean up, is proof of the ineffectiveness of having a fire extinguisher in your kitchen .
        You really are just a troll

        • “scorched kitchen cabinets“

          So the fire extinguisher prevented the house from burning down, and no humans died because the fire extinguisher prevented the catastrophic failure of the structure.

          On the other hand, even with two armed SRO, the perpetrator was able to kill four humans and critically injure nine more.

          I do not think it is reasonable to declare victory in that situation.

          I can tell you the parents and loved ones of those 13 people do not believe it was a success story.

          And isn’t it interesting, I was able to share my opinion without name-calling or insults.

          • MajorLiar,

            You will DESERVE to have your opinions treated with some respect, when you (i) stop CONSTANTLY LYING, and (ii) give opinions it good faith, not propagandize. Until then, we’ll treat you like the sh*tposting, lying turd burglar of a troll that you clearly are. Nice discussion! Come back again!

  3. Of course the usual voices are crying for gun legislation, they always do. But please explain what old, or new, legislation would change what happened. The kid had a crappy life with crappy parents. His father told the sheriff that his (Dad’s) guns were locked up and the sone couldn’t access them. Then turned around and bought an AR in his (Dad’s) name and gave it to the son.
    You want new gun legislation, then you should cry for more mental health dollars bc that is where the issues really lie. The AR sat in the closet and nothing happened. When the human took it out of that closet is when the trouble began. Its the human, not the inanimate rifle, that cause the shooting.

    • “…you should cry for more mental health dollars bc that is where the issues really lie.”

      Don’t fall for that trap, Bill. We spend more on “mental health” than any entity in the history of the world. Yet, we keep getting worse. We have more people on antidepressant/anti-anxiety meds and/or getting therapy than at any time in the history of the world. Yet, More people are depressed and anxious. What does that tell you? Spoiler alert: continuing to enrich the pharma and gov-subsidized “metal health” industry won’t solve the problems at hand. It’s past time for new solutions that no one wants to talk about.

    • “you should cry for more mental health dollars bc that is where the issues really lie“

      If you want mental health services to be properly funded to address these issues, don’t vote Republican

      “205 Republicans Vote Against Bill to Expand School Mental Health Services
      Republicans have spent months scapegoating mental health issues as a catch-all for problems like mass shootings.
      By Sharon Zhang , TRUTHOUT
      Published September 30, 2022

      On Thursday, the House passed a bill aimed at expanding access to mental health services in schools that garnered only one Republican vote, despite the party’s ceaseless scapegoating of mental illness for issues in the U.S.

      The Mental Health Matters Act passed 220 to 205 on a largely party line vote, with all 205 “no” votes coming from Republicans. Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick (Pennsylvania) cast the sole Republican “yes” vote.

      The bill, introduced by Rep. Mark DeSaulnier (D-California) and supported by the White House, would provide grants for schools to hire more mental health experts and grow their mental health services, especially schools in areas with high need. It would also provide mental health protections to adults with private health insurance and children and staff in Head Start programs, which are aimed at serving low-income children from birth to age 5.“

      • The first problem with your post is you are quoting from ‘TRUTHOUT’, one of the leading creators of left wing slant. The second problem with your post is you still don’t know what context means. The third problem with your post is your blind spots and radical extremist left wing beliefs.

        But I will admit you surprised me, because you didn’t claim Trump did it.

        • So, you’d have the schools, the ones CAUSING the mental crisis, to administer the help? THAT might be your most retarded suggestion ever, and we’ve heard some real doozies from you in the past – what a maroon

        • “The first problem with your post… “

          You’re in effect attacking the messenger, rather than the actual content.

          Do you dispute the fact that 205 Republicans voted against increased mental health support in schools?

          Context?

          You do not believe the mental health of students is an important facet of this discussion?

          You do know, this massacre was perpetrated by a student with mental health issues, right?

          “problem with your post is your blind spots and radical extremist left wing beliefs“

          What do my beliefs have to do with the posting of the actual record of Republicans voting against mental health support for America’s schools?

          Posting empty complaints is just more evidence of your cult membership which demands you attack anyone who points out the fallacy of your viewpoints, rather than engaging intellectually with the subject.

          • Mikner49er, ignoring the obvious usual trolling BS in your post and the obvious lack of you knowing what context is, I will reply to this part:

            “You do not believe the mental health of students is an important facet of this discussion?

            You do know, this massacre was perpetrated by a student with mental health issues, right?”

            So now you admit, despite denying it to troll previously, he did have a mental health illness issue.

            Then, I posted this ” The third problem with your post is your blind spots and radical extremist left wing beliefs.“ (which you cherry picked as “problem with your post is your blind spots and radical extremist left wing beliefs“ removing it from the concept of the context for my reply so learn what context means.)

            But your reply to that was this:

            “What do my beliefs have to do with the posting of the actual record of Republicans voting against mental health support for America’s schools?”

            So you admit that your your blind spots and radical extremist left wing beliefs and biasing your thinking. Simply posting something you copy-n-pasted from leading creators of left wing slant that fits into your biased blind spots and radical extremist left wing beliefs does not mean its the whole story. So I suggest you learn what context AND research means, but in effect you once again posted trolling posts to express your glee for metaphorically dancing in the blood of the innocent.

            • “So now you admit, despite denying it to troll previously, he did have a mental health illness issue.“

              ?

              “So you admit that your your blind spots and radical extremist left wing beliefs and biasing your thinking“

              While I don’t recall expressing that, only a fool thinks that his thinking is not biased by his beliefs.

              “you copy-n-pasted from leading creators of left wing slant“

              It makes no difference who reported, is the content correct? Do you have information that indicates 205 Republican Representatives did not vote against more mental health funding for our schools?

              “The Mental Health Matters Act passed 220 to 205 on a largely party line vote, with all 205 “no” votes coming from Republicans“

      • I suggest letting the states and localities handle these issues if they are not within the purview of the Federal government, per the Constitution. Instead of nationalizing everything like institutionalized Abortion, “Education”, Drug legalization and/or enforcement, non interstate Roads, etc.

  4. Same failures, same solution needed for Real school security:
    1. Know & screen students AND TAKE ACTION
    2. Harden the building
    3. Practice lock down/out
    4. Armed SRO – close to engage
    5. Concealed carry trained staff & teachers scattered over the building especially in halls at class change and entrance ways

    • “1. Know & screen students AND TAKE ACTION“

      So, red flag laws, interesting that you would advocate for these.

      By “TAKE ACTION“ do you mean actually a legal action against someone for a ‘pre-crime’, another interesting position for you to take.

      What are you suggesting, incarcerate the 13-year-old who made a threat online?

      “4. Armed SRO“

      Two armed SRO were unable to prevent the shooter from killing four people.

      • Nice jump from “take action” to red flag laws, which do nothing but take the person’s guns away. “Take action” should mean to get the distraught person the resources they need to address their issues, sonething that red flag laws completely ignore (because they’re written by groups whose only interest is taking away guns, not actually addressing violence).

        • “red flag laws, which do nothing but take the person’s guns away“

          JFC, isn’t that exactly what should’ve happened when the sheriff’s department investigators came to his house?

          And don’t blame dad, 95% of the people posting on this forum advocate no age restrictions whatsoever for purchasing firearms because it’s not in the constitution.

          That means the 13-year-old should be able to go out and buy a modern sporting rifle and a 90 round mag, right?

          • ” 95% of the people posting on this forum advocate no age restrictions whatsoever for purchasing firearms because it’s not in the constitution.”

            100% Lie.

          • Nuance you nunce, for those under 18 that are responsible and largely functioning at an adult level possession of firearms was a non-issue for centuries.

          • They didn’t have evidence to substantiate that he’d made the threat(s), so would they have had enough evidence to take away his father’s guns? Even if they had, still leaves the boy scheming other ways to cause harm.

            If a parent knows that seeking help for their disturbed child may result in their guns being taken away under a red flag law, does that make them more or less likely to get their child the help they need???

            • “If a parent knows that seeking help for their disturbed child may result in their guns being taken away under a red flag law“

              Then the parent can store them at a trustworthy relatives home during the crisis before seeking help for their child.

              Honestly, this shit is really simple, I don’t know what the resistance is to what are really common sense precautions when dealing with disturbed adolescents.

              Really, what responsible father would keep firearms accessible, much less purchase one, when the sheriff’s department had already been to their home to interview them and their child about their threat to commit a mass shooting at a school?

              In this case, the sheriff came by, the father said the guns were accessible to the troubled youth, and the sheriff dropped the ball.

              • “Then the parent can store them at a trustworthy relatives home during the crisis before seeking help for their child.” – So, when someone breaks in, they just need to go fetch a gun from their relative before confronting the intruder.

                And, like the J.D. Vance childcare scheme, assumes that everyone has a trustworthy relative conveniently at hand.

    • The perp was not only known to police but the FBI as well.

      Will more of these events happen during the election cycle?

      • “The perp was not only known to police but the FBI as well“

        You are attempting to leave responsibility at the door of the FBI.

        The FBI quite reasonably referred the matter to the local law enforcement in his county.

        We quite possibly could see more of these events because community mental health support is not adequate to deal with the problem.

        If Republicans in Congress supported mental health services for students we might see a reduction in these incidences because of the increased mental health supports in schools.

        One should ask Mike Johnson, Republican Speaker of the House of representatives, if he plans on introducing legislation to increase mental health supports in America’s schools.

        So far, it seems he is quite satisfied with the current death toll in America schools as he’s taken no action.

  5. Ah yes, election season once again.
    The attacker was known to the FBI, once again.
    Ground hog day as a movie was funnier than this.

    • How many kids must we kill before you accept gun control? Because we damn sure aren’t going to invest any resources to actually protect the kids like we do with anything or anyone valuable.

      • How many kids must WE kill?… I can’t speak for you, but myself, and I’d guess the entirety of the rest of the usual posters here haven’t
        killed ANY kids.
        And that is WHY none of us are “willing” to accept the empty promises of gun control – “Just one more law, this one will surely fix the problem”…. which they also said while passing the other 20,000 gun laws

        • Stop reread and consider the source. Hint I have a public service union. Probably should have included sarc but honestly it’s a bit too close to the truth.

    • How many kids must we kill before you accept gun control? Because we damn sure aren’t going to invest any meaningful resources to protect them like we do with anything valuable.

    • “The attacker was known to the FBI, once again“

      You can’t blame some wacky conspiracy theory, the FBI referred it to the local sheriff who interviewed the child and his father.

      But their hands were tied because Georgia does not have a red flag law, with no crime actually occurring there’s nothing they could do.

      How would you have handled the situation were you the sheriff’s department investigators conducting the interview with Colt Gray?

      Would you have confiscated dad’s weapons, even though he had committed no crime?

    • “The attacker was known to the FBI, once again“

      You’re attempting to blame the FBI but the fact is, the FBI had referred this matter to the local law-enforcement.

      And the constitutional sheriff of the county had actually sent investigative personnel, they met with the child and his father who admitted the weapons were within the unfettered access of the child yet the constitutional sheriff did not order the weapons be removed from the household so who’s fault is it the child had access to the weapons?

      Not the FBI.

  6. “Meanwhile, Nick Wilson, senior director of Gun Violence Prevention at the Center for American Progress, made the most of his opportunity to call for legislation.”

    “I send my deepest condolences to all of the loved ones of the students whose lives were lost today, and to the many students who will live with the trauma of today’s attack for the rest of their lives.”

    Ya know, Nick Wilson that advocates for murder zones called ‘school gun free zones’ that specifically attract these mentally ill killers, calls for legislation to ban guns and a constitutional right for law abiding people who did not do this. ‘Cause magically if law abiding people can’t have guns to exercise their constitutional rights it means mentally ill killers will no longer want to kill people with other weapons or guns.

    So yeah Nick, you and Kamala and Joe and Everytown and all the other anti-gun groups go ahead and keep expending all that money and resources on trying to take away constitutional rights of law abiding people who do nothing wrong. Because heaven forbid you guys actually, ya know, care enough to expend that money on addressing mental illness and actually securing schools from these mentally ill killers.

    But, your ‘deepest condolences’ are enough right?

    Your ‘deepest condolences’ looks an awful lot like you metaphorically dancing in the blood of the innocent to further your agenda taking away a constitutional right for law abiding people who did not do this.

    How dare you pretend to care. If you cared you would not be facilitating these mentally ill killers.

    • “that specifically attract these mentally ill killers“

      Not in this case, dad made the decision to transfer his son to the school.

      Are you suggesting dad intentionally brought his mentally ill son to the school to commit this tragedy?

      “If you cared you would not be facilitating these mentally ill killers“

      Wasn’t it really is the father who facilitated this tragedy by purchasing a modern sporting rifle for his son?

      • Yes, Miner49er in this case. You still don’t understand what context means.

        “Are you suggesting dad intentionally brought his mentally ill son to the school to commit this tragedy?”

        I neither said or suggested any such thing. Stop trying to promote a lie.

        “Wasn’t it really is the father who facilitated this tragedy by purchasing a modern sporting rifle for his son?”

        So your premise is the father purposely purchased a rifle so his son could shoot up the school with it. That’s a lie, didn’t happen. He was charged with “knowingly allowing” his son to possess a weapon, yet, there is no proof of such that has been bought forth in court. Like always, you seek to jump all over things you know nothing about and accuse.

      • “So your premise is the father purposely purchased a rifle so his son could shoot up the school“

        Nope, never said that.

        The 14-year-old could not buy a gun until his father purchased it for him.

        Which he did at Christmas time, just like Ralphie in the movies.

        14-year-old Colt would’ve had great difficulty obtaining a modern sporting rifle and ammunition, so by purchasing the weapon for his son, dad facilitated the shooting at the school.

        No matter how you want to spin it, dad facilitated the shooting, intentionally or unintentionally the kids and teachers are just as dead.

        • “Nope, never said that.”

          No, you did not use those exact words but you strongly indicated it was your premise in your post. And hey, look at my reply…I even used the word premise to indicate that. Well, you need to learn what context means and stop spouting of words in ignorant grammatical construction you don’t understand.

          yes yes we can read, we know all about the gun and when it was purchased etc…

          So your point it, once again moot for discussion and now once again your are trolling.

          I didn’t spin it anyway. I’m just stating plain fact in the context of my post to which you replied. Learn what context means.

          I grieve for these families and those lost. Its horrible. But this kid, as messed up as his home/life environment was … he was ‘enabled’ by this constant battering of society by the woke left wing, and bullying in a school that did nothing to stop it, into a mental illness state and the democrat politicians ‘school gun free zone’ is exactly what he wanted to vent that mental illness pressure just as others that were attracted to a ‘school gun free zone’ to vent their mental illness pressure because its not about the school its about defenseless victims. I thank God there were armed resource officers to finally be able to stop him before more were injured or killed, they are hero’s and its a testament that armed force is needed to stop such mentally ill killers so yes arm teachers as well if they wish to be armed. And sure, his father was irresponsible and its a kind of obvious thing we all already knew so you saying it is nothing new but you ignorantly use it like a battering ram to back up your false accusations that I said this or that. He should be judged for it, I never said different contrary to your, once again, ignorant grammatical construction premise.

          To you they are victims you can use to troll on line with, to spew words, and another chance for you to metaphorically dance in the blood of the innocent. Don’t fool yourself, your glee over their deaths in your posts shows through with your pathetic ignorant attempts at trolling as you try to repeat the same theme over and over again. You radical extremist left wingers never hide your glee well over such horrific incidents, always ready to exploit it for political gain or personal trolling on line.

          • “No, you did not use those exact words but you strongly indicated“

            Bullshit.

            “he was ‘enabled’ by this constant battering of society by the woke left wing“

            This is about the most empty claim I’ve ever read from you.

            “bullying in a school that did nothing to stop it“

            More bullshit from you, this was the third day of school for this child who had never attended this school before, there was zero history of bullying in this school and zero history of the school not taking action.

            Sadly, all you have are your empty claims and false assertions to support your agenda.

            • “More bullshit from you, this was the third day of school for this child who had never attended this school before, there was zero history of bullying in this school and zero history of the school not taking action.”

              do some research. He was bullied in school, I didn’t say it was this school. He carried that grudge because the school he had attended didn’t do anything about it. He even tells of it in his writings.

              Oh just give it a rest Miner49er. Take your radical extremist left wing lies and spin and trolling elsewhere.

              • Miner49er, you radical extremist left wingers always follow the same pattern. Its pitiful, you guys are like lemmings following each other over the edge of a cliff. Then when you get called on your BS you double down with false accusations and claim some sort of mysterious ‘agenda’ at play for pointing out your BS.

                Please, give us all a break and actually find a cliff and jump off.

  7. TL:DR
    Same crapola. Rinse and repeat.
    Not interested in the usual lies from the Left.
    The primary cause of all our modern day problems can be traced back to Leftist policies and cultural degradation by them over the past 50+ years.

  8. “Wilson’s numbers are questionable.”

    Of course his numbers are “questionable”. They aren’t real.

    These people point to web sites to claim things not real because the web site who pretends to be ‘authoritative’ is using flawed and biased data.

    “Georgia has some of the weakest gun laws in the country.”

    That’s not true. They abide by the same federal laws every state in the country abides by. What you really mean is ‘permit-less carry/constitutional carry’ where their specific laws still state that a prohibited person can’t have firearms, and they still have laws against crimes and murder. That’s not weak law at all.

    • As mentioned by ME yesterday obviously daddy let his demon spawn have an AR. Since there are millions of such rifles perhaps we should ban dumb dad’s?!? I never use a sarcasm tag🙄

      • laws against being stupid would have already sent people like Miner49er and most anti-gun people and left wingers to jail and Joe would not be in office and Marxist Kamala and her emotional support marxist Tampon-valor thief Tim Walz would not be running for office.

        Wait…. on second thought, yeah, lets have laws against stupid.

  9. Life can’t be made safe. There is no magic law that will make the evil and insane treasure the lives of others. There has always been some tool available to those who would deliberately harm another from the jawbone of an ass to a stick, or a rock. Humans have a history of murder.

    Technology only changes the tool and allows a small woman or old man to defend themselves from a younger stronger assailant. Of course, to understand this you must have the mental capacity to acknowledge men are larger and stronger than women and that a young adult male is faster and stronger than someone three times his age.

  10. Washington politicians swore up and down that they would be able to eliminate violent crime in America if we just pass some gun laws. So the laws they wanted got passed and today it is know as the 1968 Gun Control Act. It didn’t do what they claimed it would do and instead has been used as a club to beat the citizenry over the head with.

  11. Another case of bullying turns bad.

    Schools rarely bother with bullying complaints because the usual perps are jocks or coaches, who are valuable to the school’s sports programs. Parents should encourage their kids to report bullying AND the bullied and follow through. Most school administrators try to sweep bullying under the rug, it’s bad for their record.

    • The only way to stop bullying is to stop people from interacting with one another.
      We’re 30 years deep into the war on bullying and all the zero-tolerance, virtue signaling, choose kindness messaging and other nonsense have done absolute fuck all because as long as people interact with other people bullying will exist.

      Efforts should be spent on coping strategies and instilling real confidence in kids through accomplishments rather than lying to them with participation awards and demonstrable lies like anyone can do anything and they’re all equal.

      • Whatever happened to what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger? The boy named Sue didn’t grow up to be a mass shooter, did he? No one even considered it back then.

        • We’re into the era of “sticks and stones may break my bones but WORDS ARE LITERALLY KILLING MY SOUL AND WARMING THE PLANET AND KILLED THE UNICORNS AND ARE THE REASON I’M A 30 YEAR OLD VIRGIN AND LIVE WITH MY GRANDMA AND CANT KEEP A JOB AND…….”

          Hard times are needed to reset the perspectives of an awful lot of very comfortable people who can’t stop complaining about everything from their position of comfort.

        • “The boy named Sue didn’t grow up to be a mass shooter, did he?“

          No, he grew up to be a violent man who would respond to laughter with a physical attack:

          “Some gal would giggle and I’d turn red
          And some guy’d laugh and I’d bust his head“

          • Making fun of someone is an invitation to fight, just like flipping them the bird. If you don’t want to fight, then be nice. The point, which went over your head, is that Sue kicked their ass instead of going on a mass shooting rampage.

            • “Making fun of someone is an invitation to fight, just like flipping them the bird“

              Not in American society, both are examples of free expression guaranteed by the constitution.

              It says quite a bit about you that you think someone flipping you the bird is an invitation to fight, I hope you’re able to control that impulse, otherwise you’re gonna end up in the pokey.

              “If you don’t want to fight, then be nice“

              Just hilarious, so much for that ‘law and order’ bullshit from the conservatives.

              Bullies like you are the reason people need to carry, you’re ready to break bad because your fee-fees have been hurt by nasty words or gestures.

              • As usual, you don’t have a clue, Miner. Try to get over your republicans/conservatives bad worldview for half a second, and use your brain. I never said that I would fight someone for making fun of me or flipping me off. I’m merely noticing the world as it exists. You are welcome to go around flipping off and insulting as many people as you’d like to. But don’t be surprised when someone sees that as an invitation to fight. Maybe you can explain to them how you have a right to be mean to people without ever suffering any consequences for your actions. Your parents failed to prepare you for the world. Maybe your dad should have named you Sue.

                “Bullies like you are the reason people need to carry…”

                You really do live in a fantasy world, don’t you? You somehow concluded that I’m a violent bully from that conversation? You are truly hopeless.

                P.S. We remember when you said that people who use pepper spray should be killed. In order to stay consistent (which disingenuous people like you never do) that means that you would agree with the police opening fire on antifa/BLM activists spraying police with pepper spray. You’ll say anything in the moment when you think it helps you win an argument.

              • “P.S. We remember when you said that people who use pepper spray should be killed.”

                WTF, another vague claim.

              • The reason you don’t remember holding that position is because you have no real beliefs or principles other than worshiping the Democrat Party and saying anything, in the moment, that you think is a win for your team.

                Remember the antifa security guard during the 2020 election season of democrat-promoted violence? He shot that guy that was deploying bear spray. Here’s what you said about it:

                Miner49er copying someone’s work because drones don’t have original thoughts: “Dude, I believe our friend Ken posted a good explanation below: When it is used in an attack, it is considered to be deadly force. The presumption is that the attacker uses it to compromise the victim’s ability to defend himself before going on to commit aggravated battery or murder.”

                Miner49er cheering on the murder of someone from the other team: “I’m surprised everyone here isn’t celebrating, an American citizen used his Second Amendment rights to successfully defend his life from a violent attacker, bravo!”

                I asked: “What sort of precedent are you reading from? I’ve never heard that people should presume that. Post a link if you have it.” Of course you never responded. You’re welcome to respond now.

                I think all links, other than youtube, go to moderation now. Go to TTAG search. Enter ‘Matthew Dolloff.’ Go to the article with 131 comments. This took me all of two minutes to confirm your comments that I remembered from four years ago.

              • “you said that people who use pepper spray should be killed.”

                Bullshit, you even quoted what I actually said:

                “When it is used in an attack, it is considered to be deadly force. The presumption is that the attacker uses it to compromise the victim’s ability to defend himself before going on to commit aggravated battery or murder.”

                That’s not saying “people who use pepper spray should be killed”, I am merely relating the legal perception regarding the use of pepper spray.

                I’m sorry you were incapable of researching the subject, so here you go:

                “Lethal Force Vs Pepper Spray: Is There Ever A Justification?
                Marty Hayes Marty Hayes
                3 years ago
                At GunDigest, we independently review products. However, we may earn a commission when you purchase through links on our site. Learn More
                Is lethal force versus pepper spray ever warranted? It depends on more than if you face someone wielding the less-than-lethal option.”

                “But most armed police also consider that if they’re threatened with attack by pepper spray, it’d be an option for them to use deadly force to prevent the attack. Why? Because of the fact that the law enforcement officer has a gun and would likely be disarmed and possibly killed.“

                “This took me all of two minutes to confirm your comments”

                Nope, you are intentionally mischaracterizing my comments, as a point out above.

                And, as I predicted based on the legal doctrine, the security guard was released without charges.

                Will you ever admit you were wrong? Not fucking likely.

                “Denver DA drops murder charge against security guard, says killing of protester was “legally justified”
                Shelly Bradbury
                UPDATED: March 23, 2022 at 12:38 p.m.”

              • Fortunately, for those who believe we have an innate right of self-defense, the DA and judge know the law better than you do:

                “A judge in Denver agreed Monday to drop the murder case against Matthew Dolloff, the unlicensed security guard who shot and killed a protester outside of dueling political rallies near Civic Center Park in October 2020.

                The Denver District Attorney’s Office had said earlier this month it planned to drop the lone charge of second-degree murder Dolloff faced in the shooting death of 49-year-old Lee Keltner because it did not have evidence to prove Dolloff was guilty of the charge.

                Judge Brian R. Whitney agreed Monday to dismiss the case. The district attorney’s office said in a statement that as the investigation progressed, prosecutors found they could not prove Dolloff “did not have the right to use deadly force to defend himself and others pursuant to Colorado law.”

              • “Nope, you are intentionally mischaracterizing my comments, as a point out above.”

                Nope, you said deadly force is warranted when pepper spray is used. Then you went on to celebrate the death of someone you disagree with politically.

                Your quoted article is about police officers, not citizens. The same rules don’t apply to citizens. You of all people know that. You’ve talked about it. No one thought he was spraying so he could steal the guy’s gun because the the guy spraying HAD HIS OWN GUN! That alone makes your argument null and void! If he wanted to kill the guy, then he would have pulled his gun instead of the spray. Duh! The antifa guy unnecessarily escalated the situation, and you gleefully danced in the blood like a maniac.

                When some criminal is menacing your mom/sister/niece/friend’s daughter/wife, and she uses pepper spray, I want to see you gleefully celebrate when the criminal shoots her dead since you aren’t a disingenuous person that will say anything to defend your team.

                Speaking of police officers, you were pretty upset when Breonna Taylor was shot after her boyfriend opened fire on the police. If he had used pepper spray instead, then you would be celebrating the fact that the officers defended themselves, right? Now imagine the police opening fire on every single antifa/BLM clown that sprayed them or threw bricks at them. Bricks could knock them unconscious. That means someone could take their gun. Better return deadly fire, right? Yeah, right. You’re such a liar.

                The district attorney’s office said in a statement that as the investigation progressed, prosecutors found they could not prove Dolloff “did not have the right to use deadly force to defend himself and others pursuant to Colorado law.”

                Yes, we already know the outcome. This isn’t new information. What exactly did they discover “as the investigation progressed” that they didn’t know before they charged him? Absolutely nothing! They made it disappear because it was convenient for them. Everyone knows that, even you. If you disagree, then tell me exactly what they discovered that was new information.

                “Will you ever admit you were wrong?”

                What was I wrong about? You just gave two long posts describing how I was right. You think people who use pepper spray should be shot dead.

              • Yep, just as I thought, you’ll never admit it.

                This specific case that was being discussed proved what I had posted, in this situation lethal force was justified as the jurisprudence system confirmed.

                It’s true that you vote, and many like you will also.

                Fortunately, you are a disappearing minority.

              • This specific case that was being discussed proved what I had posted, in this situation lethal force was justified as the jurisprudence system confirmed.

                (I found your article.) Your cited case does not apply to this situation for multiple reasons.

                1. The illegal security guard was not a police officer.

                2. The illegal security guard was not open carrying. How could the assumption be that bear spray was deployed in order to take the person’s gun when the sprayor had no way of knowing that the illegal guard was carrying a gun?

                3. If deadly force was the intent of the sprayor, then he would have deployed his gun instead of bear spray. The antifa guard is the one that suddenly escalated the attack to the level of deadly force. Then you gleefully danced in the blood like a maniac. You live vicariously through murderers.

                From your quoted article:

                Pepper spray is seen as a non-lethal use of force option…It’s a meaningful option for most everyone who is faced with a possible criminal attack, but the criminal attack doesn’t rise to the level of using deadly force.

                Ouch. Did you catch that? Your referenced article says that pepper spray is NOT deadly force.

                Now for the nuance from YOUR OWN ARTICLE! You forgot to keep reading, Miner. Wow!

                there must be articulated facts to go along with the pepper spray that’d lead a reasonable person to agree it was necessary to kill the attacker.

                Was the pepper spray attacker threatening to disarm and kill the defender? Did the attacker even know the defender had a gun? Was he warned not to use pepper spray, as the defender would be forced to shoot and kill if he was sprayed with pepper spray? Was there a size disparity sufficient to render a physical defense against a gun grab unlikely to be successful, given the defender would be affected by the spray? Was there more than one attacker preparing to attack the defender?

                Then, does the defender know enough about pepper spray to understand the delivery system being used against him? Was the defender being threatened with a puny stream type of spray, as commonly found on key rings after being touted as an effective self-defense spray? Or, was he being threatened with a riot control fogger delivery system that’s likely to contaminate everything and everybody within a 30-foot circle?

                After all that, was there any tactical moves the defender could’ve made to avoid being sprayed, such as turning around and running away?

                Answer all of those questions, Miner. Your own article proved you wrong lol! Wow, thanks for the article!

                P.S. You owe me $20 for that bet you asked for about the senile Puppet and his border czar partner in crime opening the border. Check out a graph showing border crossings by year. No country in the history of the world has seen this level of illegal immigration.

              • This specific case that was being discussed proved what I had posted, in this situation lethal force was justified as the jurisprudence system confirmed.

                Your cited case does not apply to this situation for multiple reasons.

                1. The illegal security guard was not a police officer.

                2. The illegal security guard was not open carrying. How could the assumption be that bear spray was deployed in order to take the person’s gun when the sprayor had no way of knowing that the illegal guard was carrying a gun?

                3. If deadly force was the intent of the sprayor, then he would have deployed his gun instead of bear spray. The antifa guard is the one that suddenly escalated the attack to the level of deadly force. Then you gleefully danced in the blood like a maniac. You live vicariously through murderers.

                From your quoted article:

                Pepper spray is seen as a non-lethal use of force option…It’s a meaningful option for most everyone who is faced with a possible criminal attack, but the criminal attack doesn’t rise to the level of using deadly force.

                Ouch. Did you catch that? Your referenced article says that pepper spray is NOT deadly force.

                Now for the nuance from YOUR OWN ARTICLE! You forgot to keep reading, Miner. Wow!

                there must be articulated facts to go along with the pepper spray that’d lead a reasonable person to agree it was necessary to k-i-l-l* the attacker.

                Was the pepper spray attacker threatening to disarm and k-i-l-l* the defender? Did the attacker even know the defender had a gun? Was he warned not to use pepper spray, as the defender would be forced to shoot and k-i-l-l* if he was sprayed with pepper spray? Was there a size disparity sufficient to render a physical defense against a gun grab unlikely to be successful, given the defender would be affected by the spray? Was there more than one attacker preparing to attack the defender?

                Then, does the defender know enough about pepper spray to understand the delivery system being used against him? Was the defender being threatened with a puny stream type of spray, as commonly found on key rings after being touted as an effective self-defense spray? Or, was he being threatened with a riot control fogger delivery system that’s likely to contaminate everything and everybody within a 30-foot circle?

                After all that, was there any tactical moves the defender could’ve made to avoid being sprayed, such as turning around and running away?

                Answer all of those questions, Miner. Your own article proved you wrong lol! Wow, thanks for the article!

                P.S. You owe me $20 for that bet you asked for about the senile Puppet and his border czar partner in crime opening the border. Check out a graph showing border crossings by year. No country in the history of the world has seen this level of illegal immigration.

          • Also notice the distinction Sue made between a gal and a guy. He treated them differently because they are different. That’s another thing you guys have tried to erase.

          • MajorLiar,

            Hmm, sounds like Sue must have been a Leftist. Pro-“Palestinian” rioters attacking Jewish college students for the crime of . . . being Jewish. Antifa “protesters” beating up journalists for the crime of . . . reporting, ACCURATELY, on their activities. Kamal-toe the Ho overtly saying that she was going to “police” free speech on the Internet.

            Yep, Sue had to have been a Leftist/fascist.

      • Bullying is accommodated by schools, there is No Such Thing as Zero-Tolerance when it comes to bullying. Jocks are too important.

        Most major school mass shootings, except for Sandy Hook, are acts of retaliation by the bullied. If your kid is a bully, better be prepared to identify a face that looks like roadkill.

          • Nearly every school shooting of the last 30 years, except for Sandy Hook, was committed by kids who were bullied.

            I was not bullied in school, but I saw plenty of assholes picking on kids who were “different”.

            You will need to prepare for being disarmed if the general population decides enough is enough. Repealing the 2nd Amendment is not impossible. Not to mention we may well have Cuban-Style Gun Control by next summer if the democrats sweep the election.

        • The biggest bullies are these loser school shooters. It isn’t really retaliation. They just want to take out their general frustrations in life by murdering anyone.

  12. Just tossing this out as a possible part of the school shooting problem. Now, many years ago I went to a small town high school. Most of the students were rural, farm kids. Nearly all had access to firearms if they didn’t actually have their own.
    Total class was 178 students. And even back in those days we had the same issues faced by teens today. Bullies, dating, economic differences, social issues, etc.
    Difference was teachers were not just allowed but also encouraged to maintain discipline and order in the classroom. And long before the students got to high school.
    Second was the cultural differences of the time. If there was some sort of dispute between students, it was handled 1 on 1 knuckle and skull. Pull a weapon and there would be several students jumping into stop whomever pulled a weapon from using it. The occasional fight was just part of boys growing up back then. Had you looked at the student parking lot you would find, depending on season, a variety of firearms. And, nearly all of the students, male and female, had at least a small pen knife, if not something larger, on their person or in their purse.
    Could it be the smaller class size and small student population had something to do with the lack of violent outbursts? Could it be that humans, like many other creatures, don’t do as well socially in overcrowded conditions?

    • I agree, I think the consolidation of schools into mega facilities with thousands of students is a giant mistake.

      I favor small community schools, with community participation in various school events, not only football games but seasonal and cultural events such as frontier days, apple butter festival or Thanksgiving meals, etc.

      By consolidating and taking the small schools out of the neighborhoods, we have cut the heart out of our communities.

      The drive for consolidation is a financial motive, because as a society we are not willing to invest in our children, the future citizens and decision makers that will insure the survival of America.

    • +1,000
      What was called “tough love” by parents, mentors etc in the 60’s would be considered child abuse today, because the education/mental health complexes have been taken over by weak people who never push actual solutions to mental health problems. If solutions were pushed instead of encouraging people to feel sorry for themselves all the time, people would get better, and that means less money/funding for “treatment” that never works. It’s a huge grifting scheme, like SDI or Planet Fitness.

      The “harsh” upbringing many Americans had in decades past was also paired with lessons about how the US has enemies and realpolitik rules the day, so you have to be tough and resilient to keep the American nation and its culture of liberty safe from people, governments, etc who want to destroy it. Parents held themselves, their kids, other parents, and other kids accountable in the interest of raising the future guardians of our way of life, and ensuring some basic form of national integrity bound by the Constitution and Bill of Rights remained. That all started to go out the window when the Frankfurt School and other “hurr durr national-cultural pride bad” types sought to destroy ours in the name of globalism and immigration without assimilation.

    • Old Man,
      You’re right that kids used to know how to deal with adversity. Bullying and disagreement wasn’t invented in the past couple of decades. Boys used to fight, some more than others. What we didn’t have was cable news and social media broadcasting plans for retaliation for bullying 24/7, planting seeds.

      It was illegal to carry any weapons when I went to grade school. I remember seeing the sign. I often had a blade on me. I never dreamed of using it on someone. I got into a few minor scraps. Sometimes teachers would see. Sometimes they wouldn’t. When they saw, the punishment was to sit against the building during recess. Parents were never notified. It wasn’t a big deal. After the fight, whatever we were arguing about was over. No one was plotting to murder other people because of it. That doesn’t even make sense. The real bullies are these school shooters. They want to feel powerful.

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