Dick Heller
(Dan Z. for TTAG)
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Dick Heller has been a persistent thorn in the side of District of Columbia’s anti-gun government and police department for well over a decade and good on him for it. The 2008 decision in Heller v. DC is a Supreme Court landmark that clarified, finally, that the Second Amendment protects the individual right to keep and bear arms. Yesterday, Heller struck another slightly less momentous blow for gun rights in the District.

In July, Heller filed another lawsuit, this one also styled Heller v. DC. This latest action challenged the city’s limit on the total number of rounds a concealed carry license holder can carry in the Capital when armed. The city, in its infinite wisdom, had set a totally arbitrary limit of 20 rounds for concealed carriers.

This latest Heller case asked the court for an injunction to block enforcement of the limit. In a post-Bruen world, nonsensical, wholly unsupportable limits such as the carry limit is difficult, if not downright impossible to defend on the merits.

The District was coming up on the date by which the city had to respond to the lawsuit, justifying the 20-round limit. It seems that the city’s attorneys couldn’t manage to come up with an argument that wouldn’t have been laughed out of court under Bruen.

Given the current legal landscape, as Rob Romano reported last night, the city threw in the towel and used “emergency rulemaking” powers to repeal the 20-round limit.

Here’s the city’s filing:

In other words, the city knew it was going to be slapped down hard in court and didn’t want to risk a ruling that could endanger other aspects of its current gun control regime. Better to nix the limit without a fight and deal with other challenges down the road.

Chalk up another win for Dick Heller. Congrats and thank you.

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    • When you have politically inept Gun Owners sit on their behinds and assume they are countering Gun Control with posts that include words like baby mamas, Chiraq, etc. it slaps The Second Amendment in the face. And when posters do things like make a knee jerk wager on murders at a gun range in the vicinity of Atlanta were committed by Blacks and the perp turned out to be white then such bigoted based stupidity on a Gun Rights forum serves only to lend a helping hand to Gun Control.

      With all the tit for tat court room cases it’s a given pompous Gun Control zealots use the Second Amendment as a doormat. With that said the only thing Gun Control zealots fear is America hearing The History Confirmed Truth About Gun Control. Gun Control zealots cannot fact check or lie their way out because History Confirms Gun Control has deep roots in racism and genocide.

      When you know the history of Gun Control it is easy to see everything Gun Control zealots do or want to do to you and yours is nothing new. Everything Gun Control zealots say or do today is seasoned one way or another with the insanity of yesterday’s Gun Control tyrants and bigots. Failure to constantly remind them of the rot inherent with Gun Control will eventually become the death nail for The Second Amendment.

      • Have you shown ” the politically inept ” how to do it yet ? Haven’t seen your Civil Rights lawsuit against anyone for the marxist attempt to destroy our rights by using the ” death by a thousand cuts” moves.

  1. The Left is like an angry neighbor trying to down down your brick wall that stands between your him and your home, one brick at a time. He knows he can’t knock it down entirely and march right in, so he takes out one brick with a hand sledge and convinces half your neighbors on your street he’s doing the right thing. Then another brick, and another. You have to keep appealing the matter to your HOA (who will only consider separate bricks one at a time, not the entire topic, for some reason), but the HOA rules most of the time that your neighbor can take them. So you have to keep going to the Sheriff, who has to write a report for each call – which is for each separate brick as well. Every once in a while, the Sheriff gets upset with your neighbor and tells him to stop, but once he leaves the scene to go back to the station, your neighbor ignores the command and knocks out another brick.

    The entire matter should be concluded with your neighbor being taken to jail, but most of the people on your street don’t feel it’s that big a deal. Who needs a brick wall, anyway, right?

    They all weren’t born at the time the wall was put up, to stop a previous neighbor who had assaulted the previous occupants of your home. People forget easily.

  2. So is the magazine capacity limit still in effect? This reads like it only pertains to how much backup ammo a person can have.

  3. I know they think “why would you need more than 20 rds?”

    But if you carried your gun with no round chambered, one 10 Rd mag loaded, you could only throw one spare 10rd mag in your pocket and be under the limit… but even just carrying your gun with one in the chamber in this set up would put you at 21, jail! Carry two spare mags, jail. I guess revolver or 1911 would have been best setup.

    • I recall seeing something about a 10 round limit in your firearm in DC. In other words, you could only have 9+1 or a 10 round mag with an empty chamber plus your spare 10 round mag. I have no idea if this is the actual law/rule. There are so many absurd laws, it’s difficult to keep up with the various jurisdictions.

      • Most gun/magazine manufacturers do not actually intend on chambering a round and topping off the mag. Police, SWAT, and even our military don’t do this as it puts additional tension on the bottom of the slide/bolt and can induce a jam. I recently came across a new pistol on the market that had extra give in the mag at full capacity for a +1 chamber carry. Unfortunately I don’t remember the brand.

        • Completely false. For about the last 30 years manufacturing techniques and materials have been more than capable of being and remaining 30 years. I have 10 year old mags that have been loaded for at least 5 years at a time. They are fine. Cycle and reload perfectly. The crappy metallurgy of the old days is gone. It’s ok to leave mags loaded as long as it isn’t hanging in you sweaty back pocket every day. Even if it is, clean it weekly and THAT will be fine too.

  4. Heller is pretty cool. Most people who win a round at the Supreme Court tend to disappear after the fact. Heller stays in there, continuing the fight. I’d like to see him get behind the Heller Amendment to the US Constitution. Basically, a Preemption Amendment. No state, city, county, or other government body may enact firearms laws more stringent than those enacted by congress. And, yes, that preemption would apply to stupid schitzls such as Home Owner Associations.

    • We’ve had the 2nd for more than 200yr. No additional “rules” required just the will to stomp on the progs.

      • Correct, BUT, that preemption thing sure is useful in places like Pennsylvania, where Pittsburgh’s unconstitutional gun control law was struck down. Federal preemption would be so much more useful!!

    • “No state, city, county, or other government body may enact firearms laws more stringent than those enacted by congress.”

      You *really* don’t want that. 🙁

      It was just a few years ago the Leftist Scum ™ controlled the House, Senate, and White House under Obama, and he rammed his shit-show ‘Obama Care’ through, destroying perfectly good health plans.

      You want to see that happen again, this time, with gun cops watching gun ranges to confiscate sweet AR builds?

      No fucking thank you… 🙁

      • Obama Care got me affordable health insurance with simple pre-existing high blood pressure. Insurance companies need regulation. Trump did nothing on health care, despite his claims. Obama did some good things.

        • I’m guessing you are fairly young. I was in my mid fifties when Obamacare kicked in. Blessed with good health. I saw my monthly premium for an 80/20 thousand dollar deductible plan go from $256 per month before ObamaCare to more than $800 per month in the first three years under the “Affordable” Care Act. Had to drop out of it at that point because I could not afford it. When I fell on ice and tore my rotator cuff in 2019 I had to live with the pain since I couldn’t afford the new insurance so I could get treatment. Thanks Obama! The B.S. claim that preexisting conditions were exempt from the new system were just that – B.S. Because a new preexisting condition came up. Age.

  5. Its interesting to note that the FBI stats show the average rounds expended in a gunfight was 3 or less. Allowing unlimited magazine capacity only insures that nut cases cannot be stopped and frisked or their homes searched for excessive firepower.

    Mass murderers will love this victory by the Far Right Fanatical nut cases.

    17. Most gunfights average 3.59 rounds per incident


    • All of the mass shootings that have taken place not a single one was frisked or stopped from issuing murder because of silly laws like these. Are we expected to believe criminals follow gun laws or laws in general?

      Go apologize some trees, they are working very hard to make oxygen for you to waste it.

    • lil d is the main “Fanatical nut case” on this forum.

      That the SOB is still here yappin proves the Zimmerman WANTS the lil twit here a yappin.

    • Well moron, following the ‘averages’, most days are uneventful.

      So, no need for fire extinguishers, auto insurance, health insurance, door locks, fences around backyards with pools…………….🤪

      You’re too retarded to realize how retarded you really are.

    • “From these stats, we can infer that a police officer is roughly twice as likely to use their firearms as the average citizen.”

      Okay, moron, they got one tiny piece of the equation that may or may not be right. IMO, that statistic justifies taking guns away from police. If a cop is only twice as likely to use a gun as any lawful citizen, and I’ve never actually been shot at by a criminal, that means the cops don’t need weapons. Do the math: 2 x 0 = 0. Are you with me so far, or is that too complicated?

      Your article states that cops shoot and kill ~1000 people annually. Now, you should run back to your source, and find out how many cops are shot at by law abiding citizens annually. I’ll bet you find another big fat ZERO. Cops are only shot at by criminals. If I don’t need protection from criminals, then neither do the cops. After all, the cops have training in deescalating and defusing the situation, which I do not have.

      Are you feeling it yet? Seriously, are you feeling really, really stupid? You should be.

      Your article also claims that ~67,000 crimes are prevented annually. Even the CDC’s estimates are higher than that. Credible people who have done the research estimate in excess of 2,000,000 crimes are prevented annually.

      You need to find better sources that don’t corrupt your tiny little mind. And, please, stop fondling your tiny little organ while I’m speaking to you!!

    • Boy, I been tellin’ you for 35 years to shut up when adults are talking! Get back in the basement, and don’t come out until I call you!

    • When the NYPD traded in their double action only six shooters for Glock 17’s/19’s their rounds expended per shooting went up dramatically, usually to the point of emptying the entire magazine. The rounds on target did not “dramatically” increase; law enforcement hits on target are always lower in shooting incidents than citizen shootings. Law enforcement also lead in hitting unintended/innocent targets versus citizen shooters.

    • Nut cases will soon be shifting to Fentanyl as a weapon of mass attacks. Easy to get, no license, no background check, cheap, deadly, silent, easy to put into food, drink & condiments, impossible to trace and escape almost guaranteed. Not to mention the thrill of watching smurffs drop dead for no apparent reason.

      Thanks to Democrat’s Open Borders.

    • black on black gunfights usually involve far more than that…putting everyone in the vicinity at risk…rules and regulations mean nothing to them….

    • @dacian

      You missed the data behind your ‘references’.

      An ‘average’ does not define real life occurrences. I had to use 28 rounds just in one incident saving my wife. I had two 15 round magazines. Had the second guy not finally gone down after hitting him multiple times, I would have basically been out of ammo and both my wife and myself would have been killed.

      The ammo is not for the ‘average’, its for that time no one can predict when more is needed.

      Its like that motor cycle helmet people don’t like, its not there because its effective all the time – but that one time when it could have been effective it would have been a nice thing to have.

      Its like that home fire extinguisher – Its not there to put out an entire house fire, its there for that one time it can be effective at keeping a small fire from becoming an entire house fire.

      If life was “on average” all the time it would be predictable and we would be able to program our lives, but real life isn’t predictable and being prepared for the unpredictable is better then not being prepared. Heck, its why we pay for car/home/health insurance so we can prepare for the un-predictable – that’s what the increase in ammo carry does, it helps a person be prepared for that time when the “average’ doesn’t apply.

      No criminal ever said “whoops… the victim fired 3.59 rounds so I gotta stop my crime now.”

      • @daican

        “Most gunfights average 3.59 rounds per incident”

        You apparently do not understand what averages are in ‘instance’ statistics like this. At the very best and most, the FBI 3 rounds or less and the 3.59 rounds thing is stochastic and what that means is you can model a very general pattern to fit an undefined set of data like the types you want them to be with them being under a specific defined set of controlled circumstances but you can’t make specific predictions about when something will happen and that needed. In other words the FBI 3 or less rounds and the 3.59 rounds average thing you point to is at the most very best it could possibly ever be useless for defining anything at all. May seem interesting, might seem like something defining, but its not defining at all and is useless for the unpredictability of the flow of every day life. The very fact that FBI agents and police officers carry more ammo and are not limited shows that, they understand the unpredictability of daily life. So lets limit cops to 3.59 rounds of ammo if that’s all that’s ever going to be needed as you try to say so desperately.

        Not only is your argument void of logic and even the basics of a 7 year old common sense, its copy-n-paste nonsense that does not reflect reality.

        So an individual should not also be able to defense prepare for the same unpredictability of daily life by having more ammo? Limiting ammo and magazine size is not only void of all constitutional foundation under Bruen, its also restricting defense to a government imposed limit and basically imposing a death sentence on an innocent person if more is needed, not only is this unconstitutional its indirect murder by government decree.

        “Mass murderers will love this victory by the Far Right Fanatical nut cases.”

        WTF are you even talking about with this? Criminals have always carried as much ammo as they wanted or could, even with the DC limit in place. All the DC limit did was restrict the law abiding and it never did even one thing to stop criminals. Even if there restriction was only 1 round of ammo, a ‘mass murderer’ would still have as much ammo as they wanted to carry/posses. You seem to miss the point that criminals do no obey laws, only the law abiding obey laws.

        • “You apparently do not understand what averages are in ‘instance’ statistics like this.”

          Not sure most people understand “average”, either. In arriving at an “average”, one is faced with the fact that some values will be higher, and some lower. What is always missing is the range of numbers on either side of “average”.

          Learned my lesson the hard way: upon being assigned to Minot AFB, I read about the weather there. Was informed that the “average temperature” was 43deg. Didn’t realize that the temp swing would be about 150deg.

        • @Sam I Am

          You are correct, most people don’t understand “average”.
          Basically, an average is simply a sum of a group of data points values divided by the number of values in the data set. In other words a calculated “central” (AKA ‘mean’) value of a set of numbers. They do not reflect reality for unpredictable events, as you discovered in your Minot AFB experience.

    • Famous civilian instructor Tom Givens has discussed this, and warns about using police statistics in the non-LE universe. As simply summarized as I can, police (uniformed) tend to get much closer to people during their jobs. Givens believes that a better set of statistics for analysis are from law enforcement are those from the FBI and DEA, as most of their encounters are while not in uniform, thus more closely reflecting civilian-only encounters.

    • “Most gunfights average 3.59 rounds per incident”

      First, your “source” has a source for that… and it is a bad link. That means *you have no source for that claim*.

      Second, if you parse that statement, you realize that it is unbelievably stupid.

      “most” – that is, not ALL.

      So, the average of *some subset* of gunfights is 3.59. Which subset? Which ones are being left out? __We have no idea!__

      Even setting the second point aside, if 3.59 is the average, then there are quite a few gunfights that are higher than that… somewhere on the order of “half” (“average” by default means “mathematical mean”, which is not QUITE the same thing as “median”, but in practice, they are almost always at least similar).

      If I want to be prepared, I probably want to carry enough ammo for something on the order of 80% of all gunfights, at least. Carrying enough ammo for the top 0.1% of gunfights, where there are X bajillion rounds fired (or whatever – you gave us no data!), is of course, ridiculous, but it’s good to know that even something as simple as a 15 round mag (**standard** in many pistols) is going to be enough a large majority of the time… but just one spare mag puts that up to the vast majority of the time.

    • “Dacian”, I am sorry you are so stupid. Only a stupid person would think that people with CCW permits would engage in mass shootings, given the fact that has NEVER happened. In fact, CCW holders are convicted of crime less often than police officers (who themselves, tend to be pretty good, law abiding people). You’re also stupid because you conclude that just because the AVERAGE gun fight involves around three rounds fired, that should mean no one needs to allow for a gunfight in which far more rounds are needed. I am sure you don’t bother wearing a seat belt when you drive, right? And surely you don’t hassle your children with silly things like seat belts or car seats, right? After all, given the fact that the vast majority of the time, a commute by car does not end up in an accident that causes death or severe injury, the use of seat belts and children’s car seats are just ridiculous, right? I hope you don’t breed.

  6. @jwm
    “Bunions with onions.”

    You can fry your bunions, and you can fry your onions, but you can’t fry your Funyons.

  7. “…challenged the city’s limit on the total number of rounds a concealed carry license holder can carry in the Capitol when armed.”

    I think you mean “Capital”. The limit on the total number of rounds you may carry in the Capitol is zero, the same as the number of weapons you’re allowed.

  8. @Southern Cross
    “Never had that in my life. We call them prawns. Big ones are King Prawns.”

    The only good thing I could say about my holiday adventure in S.Viet Nam was that the prawns from the Da Nang river were very large, and tasted great fried.

    Oh, yeah….and no one died from eating the prawns.

  9. Permit holders in DC, lol. Nice headline tho. You can be g2g in 48 states and DC wouldn’t be one of them…

    wait for it…

  10. @.40 cal Booger

    Basically, an average is simply a sum of a group of data points values divided by the number of values in the data set.

    American English language is most sloppy. The common acceptance/understanding of “average” seems to be “most likely”.

  11. Is there any way to get a ruling, anyway? Because the whole “quick, change the rules to avoid a ruling, then change them back as soon as people aren’t watching” thing was old and tiresome decades ago.

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