Defund the police ap photo
Protesters rally Wednesday, June 3, 2020, in Phoenix, demanding the Phoenix City Council defund the Phoenix Police Department. The protest is a result of the death of George Floyd, a black man who died after being restrained by Minneapolis police officers on May 25. (AP Photo/Matt York)
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The left in America have a love-hate relationship with the police. They hate cops for enforcing laws. At the same time, they know they will need someone to confiscate all those guns from freedom-loving Americans some day.

At least for now, in the wake of nationwide rioting over the George Floyd killing, it looks like the ‘hate the police’ contingent has the upper hand. According to the mainstream media, more and more cities are looking to defund their local police departments.

Less funding means fewer cops on the street. And we all know what that means. For those slow on the uptake, it means more crime and more reasons to strap on one’s Roscoe religiously each and every day.

The UK’s hard-left Guardian reports on the “unprecedented” support for defunding law enforcement.

Movement to defund police gains ‘unprecedented’ support across US

Activists say the way to stop police brutality and killings is to cut law enforcement budgets and reinvest in services. Some lawmakers now agree.

The movement to defund the police is gaining significant support across America, including from elected leaders, as protests over the killing of George Floyd sweep the nation.

For years, activists have pushed US cities and states to cut law enforcement budgets amid a dramatic rise in spending on police and prisons while funding for vital social services has shrunk or disappeared altogether.

“Shrunk or disappeared” social services is a fake news fantasy. Local, state and federal welfare spending — aka “vital social services” —  approached $1.1 trillion (that’s with a ‘t’) in the US in fiscal year 2019.

Government officials have long dismissed the idea as a leftist fantasy, but the recent unrest and massive budget shortfalls from the Covid-19 crisis appear to have inspired more mainstream recognition of the central arguments behind defunding.

“To see legislators who aren’t even necessarily on the left supporting at least a significant decrease in New York police department [NYPD] funding is really very encouraging,” Julia Salazar, a New York state senator and Democratic socialist, told the Guardian on Tuesday. “It feels a little bit surreal.”

Floyd’s death on camera in Minneapolis, advocates say, was a powerful demonstration that police reform efforts of the last half-decade have failed to stop racist policing and killings. Meanwhile, the striking visuals of enormous, militarized and at times violent police forces responding to peaceful protests have led some politicians to question whether police really need this much money and firepower.

Over on the left coast, Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti pledged to slash LA’s police budget by $100 to $150 million and spend that money to end racism.

Deadline has the story:

As he began to speak about reforming the LAPD during his Wednesday evening press conference, Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti called this an “urgent moment” for the city, “an inflection point.”

He said he is “committed to making this moment not just a moment.”

Garcetti said he would be making commitments to creating racial equality. “It is time to move our rhetoric towards action to end racism in our city.”

He said the city must move beyond police reforms of the past. “Prejudice can never be part of police work…It takes bravery to save lives, too.”

“We will not be increasing [our] police budget,” said the mayor. That allocation is pegged at $1.8 billion in the mayor’s previously proposed budget.

Garcetti spoke of “reinvesting in black communities and communities of color.”

The mayor proceeded to announce $250 million in cuts to the proposed budget and to reallocate those dollars to communities of color, “so we can invest in jobs, in education and healing.” L.A. Police Commission President Eileen Decker then announced that $100 million-$150 million of those cuts would come from the police department budget.

So the same people who’ve been running things for decades and who want gun bans and gun confiscations believe they can dramatically slash police funding and still accomplish their goals? It’s the same sort of logic that says that if we just ban all the guns, criminals won’t have them any longer.

Protesters rally Wednesday, June 3, 2020, in Phoenix, demanding that the Phoenix City Council defund the Phoenix Police Department. The protest is a result of the death of George Floyd, a black man who died after being restrained by Minneapolis police officers on May 25. (AP Photo/Matt York)

Meanwhile, protesters in Phoenix marched to demand cuts in that city’s police budget. However the city council didn’t pay much attention to the crackpots who wanted to slash police spending by a quarter and spend all that cash on “community programs.”

From AZCentral:

In Phoenix, activists specifically requested a 25% reduction in the police department’s budget. The proposed budget includes about $745 million for the department — more than half of the $1.3 billion general fund budget.

The Phoenix City Council spent nearly four hours listening to people comment on the budget during a meeting Wednesday.

The council wouldn’t entertain the 25% decrease in police spending, but did go back and forth over how much money to spend on its new Office of Accountability and Transparency, which will provide civilian oversight of the police department.

After three failed attempts to pass a budget, the council scheduled a special meeting to reconsider the budget on Monday and adjourned for the night.

These same folks want to end cooperation between local police and Immigration and Customs Enforcement and give millions to local illegal aliens, too.


And then there are the attention-whoring celebrities wishing to burnish their social justice credentials.   “Slash police spending!” they demand.

From the Insider:

Celebrities including Lizzo, John Legend, and Jane Fonda have signed an open letter pushing for a decrease in police budgets and reallocation of government funding to community programs.

The Movement for Black Lives, a coalition of black-rights groups, released the petition as part of their “week of action” from June 1 to 7 to combat racism and police brutality in the US.

No doubt they would still want cordons of armed police to protect them at their virtue signaling festivals awards shows and plenty of staffing for the neighborhoods where they live. Because…they’re important and irreplaceable.


Two things will likely happen in any jurisdictions that go ahead slash spending on law enforcement. Those who can afford to leave will vote with their feet. And those who can’t will invest in some cold steel to defend themselves when police response times increase exponentially.

At the same time, maybe someday these same people will quit voting for woolly-headed, low-information political candidates who foist their fanciful utopian social schemes on real-world people.

But don’t look for police to totally disappear, even in social services utopias like Los Angeles. If they get rid of the cops, who’s going carry out red flag orders and confiscate all the “assault weapons” when Gun Control Czar Beto O’Rourke is finally appointed?


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  1. The more likely goal:

    Enough cops will walk away from the job or stand-down (kneel) that looters and the mob can run around without fear of being arrested.

      • The vast majority who die of the violence will be people of color. That’s the way it has gone for many decades when the police step back.

        Studies in 2017 showed that only 10% of blacks wanted less police in their neighborhood. That might have changed now, but I bet it’s still less than 50%. But you can’t police a place where enough people don’t want you there.

      • If Only that were true, but in any society where you allow the beast to control, in this case it’s the Leftists and their useful idiot protesters as well as 60% of the Democratic Party, some innocents will also pay the price. This is why we must NEVER ALLOW the democrats to take our 2nd Amendment Rights away! This includes the TYPE of gun we CHOOSE to buy. We NEED every type of gun to protect ourselves from these rioting lunatics!

      • If I can remember back that far…2 weeks ago…we were supposed to stay at home, and the Police were forcing people to wear masks.

        Today, you can go outside to riot or protest, and have zero police.

        I’m getting whiplash here.

      • Their govonor killed off a lot of his yearly expences by murdering the elderly in nursing homes, Murder Island, I like it, the name fits.

  2. Look, cops are the tip of the spear of tyranny enforcement and making driving no fun. Fund them enough to respond to major crimes and fraud and let them stay in their cars and eat donuts. They are the modern standing army and I have no use for them until I do.

    • +1 I happen to believe that in most places in this country we have far too many police officers and far to many laws for them to enforce.

      • I am always shocked how many police cars I see when I drive to Florida. On the way there I almost forget there are police and then when I hit Florida I see them continuously.

        • Florida makes up for the lack of state income tax by ticketing out of state drivers.

          Haven’t been there since 2013, but as I recall the state patrol were out in force in Georgia too. About every 3 or 4 miles all the way from Tennessee to Florida.

        • Virginia; absolutely horrible. We did one 8,200 mile (really) road trip and saw more cops in VA by a large margin than ALL the other states combined. Have never been stopped, but the Police presence in VA is atrocious. Have to say that TN, MD, NJ, NY are also awful.

        • Where I-95 crosses from S.C. into Georgia there is a heavily wooded median where cruisers from both states are parked under the trees & lined up like FA-18s on a carrier deck, ready to zoom out in either direction to nail unsuspecting speeders. Quite a racket.

      • It’s a pretty telling story when you realize their are entire sub-discipline’s of law, within even the confines of individual legal fields. Far more law than any one person, or team thereof, can remember. Therein lies the trap, how to know what, & when you’re breaking a law, when no singular human can know them all?

        Ignorantia legis excusat neminem – the official position of the courts. Given that above, you should be worried.

        • “…how to know what, & when you’re breaking a law, when no singular human can know them all?”

          Maybe the law of compensating error can help us out. We don’t know the laws, the cops don’t know the laws; cancel each other.

        • Stalin’s chief of his secret police used to boast, ‘show me the man and I’ll show you the crime’.

        • chief of his secret police – That’s what the FBI thought when Trump was elected. They were sure if they could just wiretap his staff, they would uncover enough crimes to at least force him from office. But they were really acting reasonably honestly – something that never occurred to the Dem mob – and there were no such crimes. So they made some up and charged him anyway. Defund the FBI!

      • If people were to repeal laws and then reduce police and budgets to accommodate it, I think it would be a reasonable policy experiment. But that’s NEVER what they do. Instead they keep all the laws, add some new ones, demand that they be enforced up until the point enforcement causes bad press, then cut budgets and expect less cops to somehow do a better job enforcing the same laws.

        It’s all a shell game.

      • Remember, what was once called “peace officers” are now called “law enforcement officers”, that should tell you the problem. Less than 150 years ago it was the responsibility of the citizen to uphold laws and the “sheriff” was contacted to do it when the citizen didn’t have time or ability to do so, but today, the citizen is not “allowed” to. Today’s LE do nothing more than enforce unconstitutional “malum prohibitum” laws that create a revenue stream for government. The Supreme Court has ruled on many of these laws and established their unconstitutionality, yet the fed and states continue to keep them in force (examples include Driver’s Licensing and vehicle registration/taxation, as well as income taxes). It is also been established, by the courts, that “law enforcement” have no duty to protect the citizenry.

        The Act of 1871 created the United States Corporation and states and cities soon followed by becoming separate corporations. These corporations have created the plethora of bogus “laws” that the citizenry is being forced to abide by under threat of fines and imprisonment. It is time to defund law enforcement and governments to the point that they can only handle actual criminal activity and not the laundry-list of BS unconstitutional/illegal corporate rules, regulations, and statues that they call laws.

    • This – They are the standing Army the Founders warned us of. It terrifies people like Boch that they might actually have to defend themselves and be responsible for their own safety. The precrime laws like DWI and possession of things that are protected under the BOR is getting out of control. The Coronvirus lockdown was a very clear sign of where this country is headed.

      • I lost a brother because of an asshole who wanted to party and was way over the legal limit when he ran a red light and t-boned his corolla with a F250 so I disagree. I want them to enforce DWI laws and while you are at it install laser cannons at intersections to vaporize those who run red lights.

        • I don’t really care. Until a drunk hurts someone DWI laws are all precrime. Freedom does not equal safety. Why don’t you go cover a kids play ground in pillows and rap them in bubble tape.

          Suppose your also fine with entrapment and any other thing the Governement wants to make illegal that day. You are part of the problem. Why don’t you take your prescription meds out of there container from the pharmacy and place them in another container. When they get you for that felony come back and cry me a river.

        • My wife also was seriously injured by a drunk driver who was driving on the wrong side of a divided highway. And I lost another car that was properly parked because a drunk driver couldn’t negotiate the curve in the city street. Need I go on? Drunk driving is not a pre-crime, it is a crime in itself regardless whether you arrive at your destination without a wreck this time, and regardless whether there is a law against it.

          That said, I disagree with road blocks set up to stop all the cars and look for drunk drivers on New Years Eve or some other night when drinking is expected. Even though I will not be drinking, the Constitution does not allow, because it is inherently morally wrong, inspection of my “person” by authorities without some obvious reason.

        • So in other words you are against the 2nd amendment!!!!!! A person with a gun could kill you or a family member so anyone carrying a gun should be arrested and fined or jailed to prevent them from killing someone. This is “malum prohibitum”. If you are so worried about drunk drivers then don’t drive, because sleepy drivers, inexperienced teenage drivers, extremely old drivers, and texting drivers, as well as illegal alien drivers ALLLLLLLLL pose an equal danger of causing collisions — so lets arrest them all!!!!

          The biggest problem is that the majority of drivers today are extremely inattentive. They enter an intersection without looking both ways simply oblivious to danger because the light says it’s okay to do so, and that is likely how your was T-boned. Same thing with idiot pedestrians who enter crosswalks because the little pedestrian light says it’s okay. People who are inattentive to their surroundings are a detriment to their own survival! And people like YOU are a detriment to a nation’s freedoms!!!!!

        • Benjamin McLeod – You are wrong that a driver driving “DRUNK” is committing a crime. A crime requires a VICTIM, and until that drunk injures or kills someone or damages property, there is no victim and hence no crime! The drunk driver that damaged your car did commit a crime, and so did the one who hit your wife. What should have been done is to throw the book at them, but instead (if they were caught) they probably got a slap on the wrist. WHY???? Because they will repeat and the government gets more more with every repeat offense. Texting and driving now kills more, yet it’s nearly impossible to stop it, and they have committed no crime until there is a victim. Prohibition is never the solution, it is just a feel good reaction.

        • You’re a fool that is unable to manage you freedoms for yourself, hence you need a nanny state to make it easy for you. And it is fools like you who have created the problems we have with government by allowing them more and more leeway and authority that you DON’T have the right to give them! Freedom to you is like jail to us!!!

      • I second that Vic Nighthorse! Paying $350 for an HOA is like taking that $350, shredding it, and throwing it on the grass thinking it’s fertilizer.
        Scenario: condo owner above has water leaking from a pipe down behind my water heater thus rotting the wood structure, my drywall, and rusting the bottom of my water heater.
        HOA says; we don’t cover any issues (structural or not)- this is between you and your neighbor. Insurance says since it’s an old leak we cannot do anything. Finally, to sell the house and placate the upset new owner, you agree to send someone upstairs, rip everything out behind the neighbors water heater: voila, leak found. $3000 later – just the upstairs mind you, leak is fixed, pipe replaced. Now, rinse and repeat same thing down in his place, and new owner is happy. Only good thing is upstairs insurance finally agrees to reimburse YOU for paying for all the repairs on your dime weeks later.
        The cops are always the defender of last resort and just like HOA’s they would rather do nothing to defend your problems, but they always come quickly when the POTUS wants to have phony photo op in front of a church or those wealthy folks up on the hill has a break-in or a damaged headlight on their Porsche. Money (& power) talks and BS walks: didn’t we learn this as kids?

        • So basically your whole bulllshiit rant was about Trump walking to the church and had NOTHING to do with this article!! Anyone who lives in a neighborhood that has an HOA has NOTHING to complain about because THEY signed up for it when they bought or rented the house! An HOA or city and county ordinances are great for you people until YOU are actually affected by it. There is no excuse for stupidity.

        • Am I the only one who recalls the “I Don’t Feel in NO Ways Tired” speech given by Killary at the Baptist Church a few years ago?
          Yet the atheist socio-progs are losing their shit because the POTUS stood in front of a Church (across from the White House) that rioters attempted to burn down?
          This Church has seen over 200 years of Presidental attendance during trying time to boot.
          These idiots are too stupid to realize this BS is making Trumps 2nd term a sure thing.
          Keep it up morons.

    • I would like to see a serious debate about defunding the police. Since Libertarians believe there should be no police at all. And most hate cops.

      From 2018 The Libertarian Tom Woods show.

      “Ep. 1172 The Problem With Government Police” audio less than 1 hour long.

      I like Tom Woods. I’ve listened to his show for quite a while now. He knows history. But I have found that most Libertarians don’t know history. And they “aren’t dealing from a full deck”. Historically the United States had no police. Long ago you had “A” town sheriff. Usually he had no deputy. If he needed help he went, to you, or another city resident to from a posse.

      The USA is 230 years old. We’ve only had the FBI, federal cops, for 75(?) years now. Most people don’t even know why the FBI was created in the first place. It was created because criminals who crossed state lines got away “scott free”. Local cops couldn’t cross a state to chase after the bad guy. If they did they could be, and were, shot at by the other states sheriff and even private citizens. You had to have a warrant to arrest someone across state lines.

      The Fugitive Slave Law, upset this long standing legal system between states. And it’s one of many reasons why there was a civil war.

      We never needed cops before the turn of the century. Everyone had guns. And you shot someone dead on sight who, robbed, raped, stole from you, broke into private property, or murdered.
      It was quick justice. And it worked to keep the peace. And the government was much, much, smaller back then.

      • They don’t really want the police defunded. The police protect me from them. And if the police cannot do that, then I will have to deal with them myself. Which would be very bad for them.

      • The problem is when fools read more into it than is being said! Most people who are for defunding the police are not for completely getting rid of the police, they are for lowering the funding to the point that the police do the job they were originally created for, apprehending criminals and doing the paperwork when the citizens are unable to do so. This does not mean that the citizens can go around shooting and hanging people for supposed crimes, that is why we have a right to a trial. BUT all funding needs to be cut for prohibitive laws where there is no CRIME committed, and all prohibitive laws need to be repealed! If someone breaks into my house or damages my property, it is my right to use whatever force is necessary to stop that CRIMINAL, even as far as shooting them running away. If this was allowed, you’d see most crime stop overnight, because criminals would fear homeowners again! Instead, there are so many limitations on what a “victim” can do, that criminals know they can get away with most crimes.

      • US Marshals, Secret Service, Customs Service, Postal Inspectors, and Park Police are all federal law enforcement agencies that have been around for more than a century and a half.

        • “US Marshals, Secret Service, Customs Service, Postal Inspectors, and Park Police”

          All of the above are not patrol officers. They all worked in their very limited parts of the country. At one time the military performed all of the duties. The Pinkerton Detective agency, a private company, was the “police” that crossed state lines to catch criminals. And it was legal because it was NOT A government agency. But they were essentially a “private Army”.

          That is the historical model for a private police force. But they are hated by the Left. And the Libertarians try to ignore them. I wonder why???

          I did a local museum presentation on this. Several years ago. “Either a dead marine or its a dead robber. Perhaps both! But the mail goes thru.” Video less than 3 minutes long.

          Marine Time Machine: Marines Guard the Mail

    • And when some idiot driving 100 plus mph hits the car carring your family and kills everyone of them, smile and think to yourself, well at least I get to drive as fast as I want to.

    • Back in the 1980s the home of Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden was invaded at “0 dark thirty”. They must have had nightstand guns because they quickly accessed them and drove the invader out of the house.

      The Left always wants THEIR guns. AND THEY WANT YOUR GUNS TOO!

  3. While there will be much rhetoric on defunding police, nothing actually will happen.

    City councilmen know that the police are THEIR muscle; they will not make their own “armies” impotent. That would be simple suicide. Look at the priority they give to resources: traffic fines; guarding court houses and municipal buildings. If they cared so much about school shootings they would provide more police at schools.

    We PotG recognize that full-time police are a necessary part of maintaining the civilization we are accustomed to. It’s a matter of discretion as to how much to spend on police forces; perhaps a little more, or a little less. But to significantly de-fund the police force would mean no one would come to investigate crimes. They would all be writing traffic tickets and guarding municipal buildings.

    We CAN make a contribution to this debate. We can ask the defunding advocates (and their sympathizers):

    – “Who are you going to call when YOU are threatened?”
    – “Will you undertake to defend yourself?”

    Now might be the opportunity to initiate dialogue on the right to keep and bear arms.

    • I think it is an excellent opportunity to ask, in socratic style, some very leading questions.

      Take the hypotheticals straight out of SCOTUS cases, eg, Warren v. DC.

      “You hear intruders break into your townhouse. You call the police. They say it will be 15 minutes before they can get someone out to your location. What do you do?”

      “You hear the intruders raping your roommate. You call the police again, but the dispatcher says that the police drove by your address and ‘didn’t see anything wrong’ – what do you do?”

      and so on.

      And my favorite:

      “Your lunatic ex-husband has not returned your children to your custody six hours after the court order said he had to have them back to you. You’ve called the police, and you told them you had a court order. They told you that your court order didn’t give you any special ability to demand police response. What do you do?”

      When I go over the details of cases like Warren and Gonzalez with young women, they’re shocked, amazed, befuddled… it’s always amusing to see women suddenly realize what they’ve been told about police and ‘protection’ is complete nonsense.

    • Not to worry. The tribal warlords will pick up the slack. Of course their people will have to cough up protection money to cover the warlords expenses. Sounds like fun, eh?

        • “A nation of fools we have become. Fools on parade.”

          The result of four generations of children raising children to remain children.

        • Seem appropriate here: Hard times breed hard men. Hard men create good times. Good times breed soft men. Soft men create hard times…..

          where do you suppose we fall on that rotation? I am not a boomer btw 🙂

        • “where do you suppose we fall on that rotation?”

          We are at the end of good times heading for hard times.

          Be Prepared !

        • Nothing new. I remember as a Freshman in High School (1964) being assigned the Book “A Nation of Sheep” by William Lederer. Nothing changes.

        • “A Nation of Sheep” by William Lederer. Nothing changes.”

          Wow. Haven’t thought about that book in ages. Thanx.

      • Look at the thousands of neighborhoods urban, suburban and rural where gangs could create their own nations. And soon there would be wars between them. Disarming everyone would mean we would be like Europeans during their wars. Collateral damage, entertainment for troops, slaves to the armed.

        Yeah I’m not keen on trading police for social programs I dont need.

        • What makes you think that isn’t already the case? There are no-go neighborhoods in the US, not just in the EU.

    • This is one of the better comments. All the fools
      Protesting, screaming hate towards police should ask who to call when a criminal is raping your wife? Your city leaders defunding the police
      Who will protect your children in schools. Having
      Police in schools is a deterrent. Heard arm teachers.
      Why are gun and ammo sales at all time high?
      Anti gun, take all guns, criminals will not have guns, criminals don’ buy guns legally.
      Let’s hope/pray all liberals/left are voted out of office in 2020 election .
      We need stronger law enforcement, not
      Less. Yes there are a few rotten cops, but we have far more rotten/ liberal politicians.

    • The problem is not just about defunding the police, it is also about defunding and neutering government! The problem is that the majority of the general population is fine with lack of freedom if government will manage their lives. This is what happens when we allow foreign immigrants from leftist countries who have been born, raised, and indoctrinated with a “nanny state” mind, to immigrate, become citizens, and to VOTE! NO NATURALIZED citizen should be allowed to vote – PERIOD! Naturalization has it’s limitations!!! They are no different than Commiefornians, or other leftists who move to another state and continue to vote blue!

  4. “The left in America have a love-hate relationship with the police. They hate cops for enforcing laws. At the same time, they know they will need someone to confiscate all those guns from freedom-loving Americans some day.”

    The Marxist pajama boys and girls can’t have they’re cake and eat it.

    • “The Marxist pajama boys and girls can’t have they’re cake and eat it.”

      Don’t be bursting any bubbles there. Their upper middle class mommies have be proven this wrong for 20yrs. Spoiled, undisciplined and coddled. Brainwashed by their multicultural diverse government schools.

    • No, they don’t hate cops! The left loves that the cops can steal money from the people, in general, to fund all of their other projects, they love that cops can intimidate and control law abiding citizens, they love that cops will enforce unconstitutional laws (because it is their job), and they love the fact that the cops protect their interests when in political positions. The whole “hatred” for cops is a front, just like their hatred for Jews is a front! Why would they hate the cops when the cops refuse to arrest them for rioting and looting? Why would they hate the cops who protect their hierarchy? Why would they hate cops who look the other way because of celebrity status? It’s all a ruse to create dissension. If anyone should hate cops it should be conservatives because everything cops stand for today is violating our rights and protecting the leftists!

      Concerning the statement about Jews — How can a political side hate themselves? The majority of leftist politicians are of “jewish” descent, so are their leaders. The banks are controlled by them, the government is heavily influenced by them, Hollyturd and the media are owned by them, the illuminati (Soros, Rothschild, etc.) is THEM and the Jesuits …………

  5. It’s like they’ve never read Lord of the Flies.
    Maybe they’ll catch the new all-trans-female-santanist-muslim-vegan-trinary-orgy-hemp oil version when it hits Apple TV.

  6. Is this the same mayor of LA that vowed to keep all of it’s residents locked up in their houses through July?

    I don’t think that $100-150 million is going to even cover half the budget shortfall their facing.

    • If Garcetti is going to reduce funding, does that mean our local taxes get reduced to match?

      Naw, he said it’ll be redirected to “combat racism”, whatever that means. Give a politician a dime, and he’ll never give it back.

      • ‘Redirected to combat racism’ translates into English as ‘create a slush fund for cronies’.

      • My though. How exactly do you “Fight Racism” with $100m? I suspect buy off the head thugs (dem voters).

    • I expect great results in moving that 150M$ to “poverty solutions” because look how well the previous 20 Trillion$ have worked since 1965.

      • The default liberal position for “fixing” a problem is to throw money at it and grow the government. Then when 50 years of actual data tells you it didn’t work, well, you just keep growing the government and throwing money at it of course!

      • The Libertarians Liberals and the Left, are all on record, saying you don’t need a father in the home. Remember when you said the traditional family structure of one man and one woman was outdated???

        Now you can call me a homophobe like you did Larry Elder. And every other christian. But that’s ok. I call the people who said a father was not necessary racist.

        • “you don’t need a father in the home.”

          Straight from the Black Lives Matter website:
          “We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.”

          Notice how they mention mothers and parents, but not fathers. Don’t fathers matter? Don’t nuclear families matter?

        • To Guy in WI
          Show me where Libertarians are against a single woman who has five children from five different men???
          You’re nonjudgmental correct???

          The problem with the sexually liberated crowd is they expect the tax payer to pick up the cost of the “wreckage” they leave behind.

          And the three L’s are enablers.

  7. The left thinks “defunding the police” effects the police and they alone, very juvenile thinking.

    I believe that lame coward Eric Garcetti when he gives up his police security detail.

  8. So… legalize murder.,,assault…rape?
    Who do they think will take the place of cops?
    I could see cleaning house…but that takes time to train replacements .
    No simple solutions here folks.

    • The simple solution is to dissolve municipal police, restore/support the original constitutional intention of the County Sheriff as the primary law enforcement entity, and let all people carry, all the time without restriction. Just as our Nation operated for the first hundred years of its existence. Local communities will sort out the bad actors and take care of them quickly.

      If the Sheriff is the primary LE, he/she is an elected official just like the Mayor and cannot be bossed around like a current Police Chief can. Checks and balances.

      • Can’t have people being responsible for themselves, it scares too many people on TTAG. Just read the comments, freedom doe not equal safety. If you want safety move somewhere like China, we won’t miss you.

        • GuyinWI,

          You do realize that some comments are posted here with the intent to flush out the trolls and naysayers, yes? Congrats on being the first to take the bait.

        • @GS no you can you need to be told what to do and when to do it. Take Haz with you.

        • “Where in the constitution does in mention county Sherieff’s?”

          Have a look at the 9th and 10th Amendments.

        • There was no need to have a “federal sheriff” at the founding. The founders saw no need to give the federal government arresting powers. In fact they were affraid of that.

        • @Sam
          Why cant i reply properly on this website?

          9th amendment

          “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

          This means the rights guaranteed by the constitution are not the only right people have. Nothing to do with County Sheriffs

          10th amendment

          “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.”

          Simply stated powers not delegated to the feds are given to the states. Maybe an argument for state police not county sheriffs. Either way this would allow states to have any kind of law enforcement officer it wants, city, county or state and the Feds couldn’t interfere.

          Still nothing here that says only County Sheriffs are the only valid Law enforcement

        • Two part response:

          Why cant i reply properly on this website?”

          Seems to be a limit to the number of direct replies to a screen name; the “Reply” button disappears. After that, the best course is to pick an open “Reply”, and use, as you did, the @ or #, followed by the screen name.

          “Still nothing here that says only County Sheriffs are the only valid Law enforcement”

          The 9th and 10th declare there are innumerable rights and powers, retained by the individual and the States, that are not to be considered non-existent simply because those rights and powers are not enumerated in the constitution, or the BOR. Thus, the states, and towns maintain the right to establish law enforcement as the States saw fit (Sheriffs, Constables, whatever).

          The States also retained the right to permit the central committee to establish a federal police, but did not do so as a delegated power identified in the constitution. Under the original concept of the constitution, and the limited powers granted the central committee, a federal police force would require a constitutional amendment. Instead, Congress used simple legislation to establish federal police power, and we the people accepted that the Congress could change the constitution through simple legislation, bypassing the amendment process.

          Under the original constitution, there was no federal crime of murder. Think about that. A federal official, regardless of office, who was murdered, was a private citizen for law enforcement purposes, and the perp was dealt with through state and/or local statutes. Indeed, when JFK was killed, it was not a federal crime, and legislation was later passed making killing of the president a federal crime.

          One cannot analyze yesteryear through the lens of today. It is necessary to go back to the founding, then trace events forward.

  9. To the extent this is successful in Blue Cities within Blue States, those that can will leave. There is already an ongoing exodus from NY and CA as a result of the WuFlu and this will just swell those numbers. The upshot is that the Democrats will lose votes in Congress, but that won’t stop their virtue signaling.

  10. Don’t think for a minute that de-funding the police means an end to police. This is about the total Federalization of Law Enforcement. The left wants to do away with local law enforcement and turn it all over to the Federal Government. This has been their dream for a very long time.

    • We operated without modern militarized Police for a long time without this issue. Suppose you think open carry and concealed carry also lead to more people being killed. Why are you even here?

      • If you mean a long time like 18th century with 13 states and a million people you have a point. The country is a little different now. Wise up. Or at least make sense.

        • Up until about the 1930s but close. Your lack of understanding of us history really shows. I get it freedom terrifies you. You like being told what to do and when to do it. You think Governement is there to protect you, what a snowflake. This is why rights in general are what they are. Everyone wants freedom but they don’t want any of the responsibilities that come with it.

  11. They want to push Americans to vigilanteeism…and mob rule…And then turn around and make it even worse police station to remedy that..That is how social government start throughout history

    • Let’s try it. Let’s see how those millions of fat, democrat-voting, soccer moms like it when animals rampage through their suburbs.

      I seriously have no problem with it.

      • I heard that my uncle voted for a democrat in the last election, I was shocked…he was rolling over in his grave.

  12. Being that it’s June already and fiscal budget years tend to run 07-01-thru 06-30, I’m betting budgets have already passed and been inked for most agencies/cities.

  13. “Municipal police departments” are a relatively new phenomenon in the grand scheme of human civilization. This concept of “law enforcement” is beholden to the power structure and not to the citizenry.

    In “the good old days”, the “sheriff” was the chief “law enforcement” individual in the county and had broad reign in his respective jurisdiction. When the need arose, ordinary citizens were “deputized” and were given limited “police authority” at the discretion of the “sheriff”. This was used during emergencies when there was a need for “manpower”.

    Today, this has morphed into the need for permanently appointed sheriff’s deputies.

    In order for a sheriff to be elected (and re-elected) he has to have a good reputation among the citizenry. Accountability to the citizenry is a large part of the equation.

    Fast forward to today, where the “chief of police” in the major urban areas is quite often a political “hack” whose allegiance is to the mayor and power structure, not the citizenry. This is a large part of the problem as it fosters an “us vs. them” attitude, where the citizenry (us) is considered to be the “enemy”. It gets worse, as city officials “pull back” their police when they should be doing just the opposite.

    The concept of “immunity” for public officials has been expanded to the point that police departments operate with impunity and have no problem abusing their power as the prosecutors, courts, and in general the “system” is heavily stacked against the victim of police abuses. It is almost impossible to sue police departments for abuses committed by their personnel.

    Individual police officers cannot be sued as they are “protected” from lawsuits by their official “immunity”. Even with incontrovertible video and audio evidence, police are rarely convicted of crimes. Juror intimidation is a large factor in the inability to reign in the “bad apples”. Police unions play a large part in whitewashing criminal behavior by police.

    Immunity negates responsibility and must be abolished.

    What we are experiencing today is “blowback”, something that I feared would occur, with the increasing number of publicized police abuse cases. Those who are attacking police see only the uniform and not the person wearing it.

    Not a good situation for either police or the citizenry…

    Just maybe it is time to abolish municipal police departments and go back to the sheriff model of “law enforcement”.

  14. Why not give the people what they want? Defunding the police in blue cities won’t keep me up at night. Maybe I just don’t see how a rise in their crime rate affects me and mine. Who are we to get in the way of natural selection?

    • I don’t think anybody wants total defunding of the police, the excessive militarization of the police is the real problem.

      The public wants a return to the cop on the beat, familiar with the neighborhood and the people.

      When all the police climbed into their cruisers they remove themselves from the community and lost the relationship with the people on the street.

      • LMAO, Hard to run across town to that DV call. Unless you want to massively increase the number of police so they can all walk to answer every call.

  15. Give them what they claim to want. Completely de-fund the police. Then sit back and laugh when they learn the hard way that without cops they are at the non-existent mercy of each other. See how they like Rough Justice when it’s applied to them.

    • I thought that’d be a good idea too but unfortunately there ARE decent people living there as well. Maybe the Feds could fund moving the good folk out and Let these shitholes go all “escape from New York”.

      • You make a good point. The good people in town would suffer if blue city police were defunded. Reloading those good folks could have a profound effect on the economy. Once the city is left to the those who choose to stay, it may not be long before they follow the good folks who left… into my town.

  16. endgame: a “new” FEDERAL police force WILL be created and FULLY funded. It’ll be just like the SS and there will be a class that gets murdered. Nothing that is happening today is new or surprising. Regrettably, people tend to get the government they deserve.

    • The plan is to Federalize all Law Enforcement. We already have almost a hundred federal agencies with police officers now.

    • burley said: “a “new” FEDERAL police force WILL be created and FULLY funded. It’ll be just like the SS and there will be a class that gets murdered. ”

      In 2008 BO said: “We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded. ”

      So, there is your federal police force (gestapo), also know as Antifa. When it grows to full size and fully funded the results will be spectacular.

      Be Prepared !

    • “a “new” FEDERAL police force WILL be created and FULLY funded. ”

      Already a done deal. It’s called the Department of Homeland Security. They just haven’t ramped it up — yet.

      • The department of Homeland Security inst a new police force. It was a realignment of a bunch of previously existing police forces in one department to include, Border patrol, Customs, ICE (INS), Secret Service, and Coast guard. They all existed before DHS.

    • Yes, I agree but the idiocy is well matched by the right wing. This is what can give me despair at times, seeing the crackpots of the left defining their side’s politics while the crackpots of the right do the same. Between the two the problems only fester and nothing ever gets solved.

      • Just curious which right wing policy you dislike? I hear you say this quite a bit, but I’ve never heard you elaborate. I’m not trying to be combative, there are many I don’t like as well.

  17. “ANOTHER REASON TO BUY GUNS: ‘Defund the Police’ Movement Gaining Steam
    by John Boch”
    “… The movement to defund the police is gaining significant support …”

    Author John Boch is big on hyperbole and wild exaggeration driven by his far right ideological fear mongering. There is no significant movement and no lasting movement to defund police agencies. What such voices do exist are both left and right wing and contain similar arguments. Plenty of right wingers oppose the militarization of police, including many here on TTAG. POTG opposing militarized, warrior mentality policing are not lefties.

    As such, author Boch is part of the problem.

    When the current unpleasantness quiets down, as it appears already to be doing, the voices for police defunding will wither away too.

    The problems we see today could be solved by shifting focus from militarization to correcting training and policies and supporting those with existing budgets not being spent on armored vehicles and infrantry squad gear and training. Officers need to be trained on their Duty of Care to a restrained suspect. They need to be trained in de-escalating encounters, in respecting the public and their natural/Constitutional Rights. Officers must be trained in a responsibility to step in and halt the excesses of fellow officers.

    Do those things and a great many incidents the like of which cause these periodic eruptions of rage will stop happening.

    • “There is no significant movement and no lasting movement to defund police agencies.”

      Perhaps you haven’t heard of Black Lives Matter. They are EXTREMELY well funded, and they aren’t going away anytime soon. They have been anti-police since they were created. The recent chaos has been great for donations to BLM. Numerous virtue signaling corporations have decided to help fund the fight to defund the police. Plenty of wealthy white people are donating in order to atone for the sins that someone, that they don’t even know, did decades or centuries ago.

      Now more and more actual politicians are coming out to support these ideas from BLM.

    • City Council President Lisa Bender said that they will “dismantle” the [police] agency and “replace it with a transformative new model of public safety.”

      More right wing fear mongering? She’s a democrat that’s actually in charge of things. I’m not saying it will happen, but it’s good to be aware what the people in charge are saying they’re going to do.

  18. Then again, it’s the UK. I’d be all for defunding a police force whose sole duties seem to be arresting you for tweets and no-knock raiding you because they THINK there might be more than one person in your house.

  19. “Prejudice can never be part of police work…It takes bravery to save lives, too.”

    What a jerk. As if they don’t do that too.

    I knew a MPD cop that honestly I hated to be around, decent guy, but obnoxious…anyhow he one day related a story about how he saved the life of an infant, got an award too. In that moment I realized that most cops likely do more real good for the world and most don’t give it a second thought.

        • “Most people are good”…

          I am not sure I believe this any more. The left, including the media and education system, has worked for years demonizing conservatives. A high percentage of the youth hate America and conservatives. The left advocates for violent revolution with the dreams they can eliminate most all conservatives. Think Jews in German held territory in the 1940’s.

          Hopefully most people are good now but demographics are changing that.

  20. “reinvesting back into communities of color”=setting up a slush fund to give money to patrons who do the right things politically.

    Give that cash back to the taxpayers. Plain and simple.

    I’m waiting for one of them to try and fully defund a PD in a major metro area. You think Sandy Hook sold a lot of guns? That will look like someone got their tax check back in comparision.

  21. The only rights and safety you have are what you personally can enforce. The norm is reluctant granting of privilege.

    • Bellum omnium contra omnes.

      Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common Power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called War; and such a war as is of every man against every man. In such condition there is no place for Industry, because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no Culture of the Earth; no Navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by Sea; no commodious Building; no Instruments of moving and removing such things as require much force; no Knowledge of the face of the Earth; no account of Time; no Arts; no Letters; no Society; and which is worst of all, continual Fear, and danger of violent death; And the life of man solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.

  22. Meh…in my southern Cook County,ILL burb my local 5-O are pathetic. The only time I’ve ever called the po-leece is on Halloween night 2019. 5 or 6 gunshot’s across the street. They sent 2 dipshite kid’s. Didn’t believe me(my wife & son heard it too!)They hide to give tickets to unwary motorists while ignoring my major street. They harrass folks holding garage sales. They were cowards in the quite recent riots & looting(more to come😡). So do we need ’em? Sure but not an occupying para-military gung-ho flash banging babies bunch. The Floyd killer was ex military po-leece. He had a mideast flashback he was choking Jaffar Jihad…I am my own 1st responder!!!

  23. “When the current unpleasantness quiets down…”

    Hahahahahaha… so now looting and rioting is just an “unpleasantness”……

    Just in case anyone doesn’t know, the cause for this “unpleasantness”, a man named George Floyd, has been arrested at least 9 times, and the last one gave him 5 years in prison for a home invasion in which he put a gun to a woman’s belly, while 3 of his criminal buddies looted the house.

    He was a violent criminal. HE WAS NOT A SAINT…

    Karma is a bitch, isn’t it?
    And as far as the looting and rioting, it needed a though and immediate response consisting of a hail of bullets.
    If the liberal cities wind up with no cops, there will be almost no difference in future riots except for a much higher level of looting and violence, and all I can say is:
    Karma is a bitch, isn’t it?

    I’m sick and tired of the holier than thou whiners and criminals, who are total wimps, and cannot function except in pack. The young liberal women are the worst of the lot. When they get attacked by their own allies, all I can say is:
    Karma is a bitch, isn’t it?

  24. After a couple of experiences with the police when I lived in a major metropolitan area, I don’t even bother calling the police anymore. They might show up, eventually.

    You are your own first responder.

  25. This defund the police stupidity is along the lines of the clowns who want close down oil companies. For nitwits it may be cool to talk defunding the police but rest assured if the need arises the same nitwits will trip over each other to call the police for help. Instead of 911 the help number for those who want to defund the police should be: 1-800-EAT-SH*T.

  26. I doubt such support is deep and wide. I certainly hope not. Such a policy is a couple dozen major cities would be a disaster for the whole country.

    What I’d really like to know is what’s with all the rotor wing activity in my area 150 feet off the deck.

    • strych9,

      Those hovering helicopters are supposed to intimidate the crowds that were considering rioting and looting. They are also loud of course and they make it much harder for ANTIFA and the like to coordinate/communicate (via voice) sophisticated attacks.

      • I know what they’re doing in cities.

        I’m not in a city. There’s no ANTIFA to disperse, just horses and other animals to scare.

        Cruising through farm country at ~20 knots, 150feet off the deck in a little bird, running square grid search patterns through farm fields makes little sense.

        • Rotorheads gonna rotor.

          Many moons ago when I was young…

          Me: why do ya’ll call it nap of the earth?
          Rotorhead: Because we are flying very close to the ground
          Me: why don’t you just say that in the first place.

        • Sounds like a questionable yarn.

          Wow. I need to stop with the word games. This is getting retardedly esoteric.

  27. Hear me out — I believe that I have a compelling argument that might surprise you.

    I believe that defunding most/all city police departments will actually be a net gain for those cities, especially if those cities redirect a small fraction of that money to education programs that actually work. Before you poo-poo this idea, here are a few FACTS:

    a) Cities are already migrating to zero dollar bail. Cops catch criminals and they are back out on the streets the same day. If the criminals are going to be on the streets anyway, why waste money on a police force?

    b) Criminals do not seem to have any trouble beating, robbing, raping, and killing people as it is. Put another way, how many times is a police officer standing right at the scene of a crime and able to stop it before it happens? Answer: pretty much never. Since police almost never prevent any crimes, why keep paying them?

    c) Huge rural swaths of our nation already have effectively no police force. And those huge rural swaths of our nation have the lowest crime rates in the nation — and the world for that matter.

    d) Even in urban distopias, sooner or later the locals “neutralize” any really bad actors. Why pay the police when the locals will take out the trash for free?

    Those are facts. And they indicate that nothing much will change for the worse in our cities if we defund city police forces.

    • In other words, liberal progressives are going to destroy the city so there is no point in doing anything about it.


      The locals might be more inclined to neutralize the bad actors if the legal system were not so inclined to permanently ruin their lives for doing it.

      The revolving door for crime is to be done away with. Not excepted.

      Having fewer cops in places with fewer people is irrelevant.

      • PRNDLL,

        I don’t think you processed my points.

        Let’s start with large, rural swaths of land. For all intents and purposes, there is ZERO law enforcement. Not less law enforcement than a large city, ZERO. A burglar can operate with confidence and impunity because there is statistically ZERO chance that a police officer will happen to drive by and catch them in the act. And even if a neighbor noticed the burglary and called police, the burglar can easily finish their burglary and escape without notice during the 45+ minutes it takes police to arrive. The same applies to any other crime that a criminal wants to commit, whether that be robbery, aggravated assault, rape, or murder. And yet there is for all intents and purposes ZERO crime in those large, rural swaths of land. That is a FACT.

        Now, add that FACT to the additional FACT that criminals have no trouble committing crimes right now in large cities with large police forces — and add the final FACT that large cities are effectively eliminating jail (refusing to prosecute “minor” crimes and failing to imprison criminals thanks to no-cash bail even on the rare occasions that police do catch them) — why have a police force if they are ineffective and quite possibly totally unnecessary (according to those large swaths of rural land with no police and no crime)? It is a serious question.

        Now, if we consider the added dimension that locals will eliminate bad actors, I think that really puts the final nail in the coffin. And remember an important consequence: if we eliminate police forces (or radically reduce them), there will not be any government entity to punish locals for stepping up and eliminating bad actors.

        Try to set your emotions aside for a moment and really, REALLY ponder this.

        • “the added dimension that locals will eliminate bad actors, I think that really puts the final nail in the coffin.”

          They are sort of talking about this now. See my post below. However, the enemy they seem to be focused on is the police, not the criminals responsible for 99% of the murders, rapes, theft, etc.

          “Even in urban distopias, sooner or later the locals “neutralize” any really bad actors.”

          That doesn’t seem to be happening in St. Louis, Baltimore, etc. Has that happened in other urban areas in this country? Serious question.

        • I guess what throwing me off is, why would a criminal pheining for a fix drive 80 miles into the country to commit a burglary? A place more likely to got shot (maybe)? A place more likely to get into critters? I doubt many of them ever even think about it.

          Where is the fun in teenage kids taking uncle bobs 60 acre ranch from a bunch of hey seed hicks for use as gangland?

          There is a reason why ‘inner city crime’ has always been a thing.

          I just don’t see it.

        • Dude,

          I appreciate your serious question. My reply is serious and not sarcasm nor snark.

          Can I site a peer-reviewed study which definitively tells us that locals neutralize bad actors in urban distopias? No. Here is what I can tell you about urban distopias. Confrontations and serious fights are regular occurrences and you don’t survive if you are a pansy. To be blunt, people in those environments are warriors which has profound consequences.

          One consequence: residents of urban distopias don’t simply roll over when an attacker comes calling. Instead, they meet that attacker head on with gusto. Even if the attacker prevails over that defender, it is only a matter of time before he/she succumbs to the some other defender who is bigger, stronger, faster, or better prepared.

          Another consequence: those warrior residents of urban distopias have the balls to eliminate the worst of the worst. Can you picture some punk raping a child or the sister or mother of a gangbanger and skating away clean? Won’t happen. They will hunt that scumbag down and severely beat or kill him. Sure, he might get away with it one or two times. Soon enough, the people will get him.

          Look at the actual policing dynamic/results of urban distopias. How come local people almost never cooperate with police? How come police only close out something like less than 10% of murders in Chicago for example? Police are almost entirely ineffective. Part of that is because residents don’t trust police. And part of that is because residents want to take of their problems themselves.

          And look at it this way. What if you where in that environment with basically no police force and no law enforcement. If some scumbag raped your daughter or mother and you were able to identify him, would you send him a Christmas card? Or would you deliver justice yourself? Remember, there is no law enforcement in this scenario to jack you up for delivering justice to the scumbag who raped your family member.

          Would there be a fair amount of petty crime without any meaningful law enforcement? Perhaps. Get much beyond that, though, and the locals will take care of it. Why wouldn’t they?

        • Okay, I see what you’re saying. That’s an interesting perspective. The only problem is the neutralizing of really bad actors never seems to end, and the murder rate stays high, but to change that would require changes other than law enforcement, and that’s a different conversation.

        • Dude,

          The residents of urban distopias are always producing more children — some of which will grow up to be bad actors and replace the bad actors who lived and died before them. Hence there will always be some level of “taking out the trash”. The solutions for that problem are a different topic as you mentioned.

          A couple final thoughts to bring some further clarity. Remember my claim that all attackers will eventually meet their demise because, sooner or later, the defender will prevail or the locals will neutralize them? I can actually provide soft proof as well as hard proof of that claim.

          Soft proof: law enforcement is almost entirely impotent in urban distopias (reference Chicago’s abysmal rate of solving murders and imprisoning the perpetrators). And yet we only see about 500 murders in any given year among Chicago’s population of 2.7 million people. We know that law enforcement certainly isn’t doing anything significant to stop murders or even crime in general in Chicago. That being the case, why aren’t we seeing 20,000 or even 100,000 murders every year in Chicago? Why not if there is no restraint, no limiting factor? Answer: because the locals are taking care of the problem and providing the restraint.

          Hard proof: multiple sources tell us that the average lifespan of young men in gangs in urban distopias is something like 23 years old. Why are they dying at such a young age? Hint: it isn’t cancer or starvation. Answer: they die from wounds that they receive while fighting with other young men. As I stated in my previous comments, young men who frequently attack people will die sooner or later (and with the average life span being about 23 years old it sounds like sooner rather than later) because one of the defenders will be smarter, faster, stronger, and/or better prepared. Such a low average lifespan proves that point.

  28. We already know what happens when cops pull back. This happened in 2014-2016. The numbers don’t lie.

    We also know what happens when you vilify the police as if they’re an evil force that lives to hunt down and murder black men. You end up having more unprovoked attacks on the police. The result is more dead black men. Is that what they want? Another spike in violent crime?

  29. Well, let’s just jump in here: quote “At least for now, in the wake of nationwide rioting over the George Floyd killing, it looks like the ‘hate the police’ contingent has the upper hand.” enquote.
    For starters the protests have been largely peaceful, joined by millions world wide, and provoked by a murder over a counterfeit $20 bill. Looters have also followed after such massive events for time immemorial and the protests themselves at night especially have been infiltrated by police spies and provocateurs, including the so-called Antifa who are loaded with cops. Even videos have shown a group of 5-6 cops in uniform and on bikes and breaking large plate glass windows on storefronts in New York city.
    So let’s just have a reality check and realize the First Amendment right to take the government to task or even to take recourse to change it is under attack.

    Everyone wants to talk about defending their Second Amendment rights but all owners of firearms should know that taking away our firearms will cause a massive resistance movement that makes the Boston Tea Party look like just that… I don’t like phony liberals in states like California but one can “vote” with your feet.

    If not that, then you are a candidate to endorse a neo-fascist movement (Google it).We should try and take a deep breath and not throw the baby out with the bath water. Just saying…

  30. I fear my HOA as much as the police. The police don’t notice me most of the time, even if the times that they do they are dicks 2/3 of the time. My HOA which didn’t exist when I bought my place sprung into existence with lies that everyone would die if we didn’t form an HOA with ‘minimal power’s. Well now we have an HOA that would be considered extremely powerful in a NJ suburb much less very rural Wy. After just one year after faking an election and getting that power, they act very much like what people don’t like about the police. They demand immediate compliance with there wished and if you even ask them why they think fake wooden siding isn’t sufficient to satisfy the covenant they ratchet up their demands and start using your own money to sue you. They spread rumors and slander anyone that questions their authority in anyway. At first the seem almost normal if a little haughty but you can watch their attitude change to anger and revenge when you ask them a quite reasonable question.The problem isn’t that police are naturally bad, it is that power and lack of transparency causes god awful behavior in most people (that seek positions of power anyway).

    • The worst HOA’s are the ones run by retired people. That is their life, and they have nothing but time to nose into everyone’s business.

      • Have you ever heard of an HOA that had it’s board meetings in a distant state with the members and their allies flying and staying there on the HOAs dime. They only have to give 3 days notice by their latest bylaws and they don’t even really do that. Two people asked to see the ballots that put the HOA in power are now both are being sued by the HOA for aesthetic violations (one has paid $40k in legal fees). I’d go on but this is off topic and the stuff going on is so crazy that most readers wouldn’t believe me. Locals in our area now call our subdivision “Moron Mountain”. My point is that a significant portion of people go batshit crazy when they get power over their neighbors and can hide their misdeeds.

  31. So, we now *KNOW* that Mister Floyd was “killed”?
    I’m glad we’ve all just decided that it was a “killing” because it totally justifies all the violence and next time we, The Great Collective (/s), get told of an injustice by our handlers it’ll make suspension of any judicial process and destruction the hard-won peace all that much easier.
    Fools. Well programmed fools.

    The Bureau of Prisons says special operations resource teams have been deployed to the District, but won’t confirm if they are shown in pictures.”

    Einsatzgruppen units are being deployed.
    Our great leader, the Chosen One will tolerate no antigovernment protests in the new Amerika.

    • “The Bureau of Prisons says special operations resource teams have been deployed to the District”

      There’s the answer, but let’s pretend like it’s some scary mystery.

  33. Defunding police is one of two things.

    At best, it’s a lazy man’s substitute for the hard work of straightening out the institutions, including police unions, and purging the bad apples. There is a fundamental problem with a department that fires a cop because he made a judgement call that someone didn’t need to be shot. Unions are necessary to protect good cops from politicians. The last thing you want is cops whose first loyalty is to a powerful politician. That turns them into the politician’s goon squad.

    At worst, it’s an assertion that minorities should not have to obey the same laws as everyone else. Eric Garner is a poster boy for police brutality. Not mentioned is that police came to arrest him after complaints from nearby store owners about his illegal business practices. What were the cops to do when he resisted arrest? The store owners won’t be satisfied with, “We can’t do anything for you because Garner will fight us and die of his health issues.”

  34. Libertarians Liberals and the Left, all of them call the republicans “the law and Order” party. The three L’s are seen as pro criminal. The Libertarians have publicly supporting anarchy. Well, they are getting what they asked for.
    I say Trump 2020!

  35. Have the best of both worlds!
    Defund the police AND use all that money to arm, equip, and train all the freeholders in the jurisdiction as militia and posse. Full-auto battle rifles only! Those who qualify with both rifle and pistol will be exempt from property tax in the given year.

    • It looks like that’s what they want. I find this EXTREMELY interesting! There is a subsection of the Left that is apparently now pro-gun. The virtue signalling corporations and individuals that are funding BLM are very anti-gun. Does this make sense? No, because it’s just virtue signalling. It doesn’t have to make sense. How will these new pro-gun folks feel about democrats wanting to take their guns?

      “BLM will have ‘Peace Officers’ patrol black communities to challenge law enforcement and stop police brutality, reminiscent of the Black Panther Party”

      I don’t see us working with police. I see us policing ourselves. I see us teaching black people how to police their own communities.”

      You can’t do that without firearms. This might wake some people up to the reality of the disarmament movement. Pretty interesting.

      There are reports of another subsection, Antifa, that are also promoting training with firearms.

  36. When the police are gone and you have vigilante patrols like the wild west days, the liberals will be screaming for the police to come back. Or, maybe they will start curbside pickup for the bodies from the self defense cases. Nothing good can come out of all this stupid talk. But then it could simplify things tremendously. If there are no cops then why do we need laws with no one to enforce them. If we don’t have laws, why do we need lawmakers or judges? Just look at all the money that would be saved. No cops, no lawmakers, no laws, no judges…….every one just lives on their own. No economy, no cash. Back to the barter system.

  37. As a firearms afficianado and ardent 2nd Amendment supporter, I enjoy many of the articles on The Truth About Guns. However, as a police officer for the past 30 some-odd-years, I am appalled at the number of demeaning comments and disparaging remarks I see here that are directed at all law enforcement officers and the profession as a whole. Isn’t ironic that we get upset when the left refers to all gun owners as uneducated racist imbeciles? Or when the stupid actions of some idiot with a gun unfairly reflect on the rest of us? I’m proud of the work I do, and I’m proud to work with the men and women of my profession. I also proud to be part the growing cadre of gun owners in America, and proud to be an American. I’m sure I’m not the only cop who subscribes to TTAG and gets a bit irritated at getting bashed by people with whom we share many of our beliefs in freedom and security. We’re on your side.

    • Well get your fucking house in order then.
      Over the past 10 years I have done a complete 180 on my opinion of cops to the point that I now consider most of you a bunch of fascist fuckers.
      An when you lose an ultra-conservative 50 YO well-paid engineer then you pretty much have screwed the pooch.
      It wasn’t ME that changed but rather your tacti-funcker attitude that you all have nowdays.

      How do you now get out of the hole that YOU dug?
      Start with….
      1) ending you late night door kicking military role playing
      2) stop treating middle class drivers as a cash register
      3) stop stealing from citizens on bullshit confiscation laws

    • “However, as a police officer for the past 30 some-odd-years, I am appalled at the number of demeaning comments and disparaging remarks I see here that are directed at all law enforcement officers…”

      The issue isn’t that all police are intentionally, actively “bad”. However, cops in any organization know who the bad actors are, yet refuse to band together to get the really bad cops removed. Thus, all cops are either “bad”, or complicit in bad acts. Which resolves into widespread distrust and anger at cops.

      Don’t want to suffer the slings and arrows? Join or instigate an effort to remove all the bad cops you know, or have known. When the public sees cops removing their own bad apples, perceptions will change. However, the lesson of Serpico is a difficult one to ignore; nothing really changed.

    • How many gun, drug and traffic laws do you enforce? If the answer is more than 0, we do not share the same views of freedom. Freedom should trump security every day of the week. Anyone who uses “security” in relation to a government policy should lose their job and pension.

    • DougH,

      Only scumbag criminals despise law enforcement for investigating and arresting thieves, thugs, child molesters, rapists, and murderers.

      The rest of us — all of us — applaud law enforcement who do that.

      The problem is law enforcement enforcing laws that have no victims, law enforcement using unnecessary heavy-handed tactics, and law enforcement not removing the bad apples within.

      If you are one of the extremely rare law enforcement officers who never enforces laws which have no victims, never use and actively oppose unnecessary heavy-handed tactics, and always actively seek to remove bad apples within, then we all applaud you.

    • Be proud of the work you do, but the stupidity, arrogance and lawlessness of too many cops continue, even after the Floyd death. Just look at the news of the “protests”, and the number of times cops, who should be on notice, just keep brutalizing people. Look at the video of cops shoving an elderly man to the ground yesterday (and they lied about it), simply because he challenged the cops by standing in the way. The attitude displayed is clearly “Us against Them”, a belief that use of force against non-violent dissidence is just fine because anyone opposing police deserves to be crushed under the heel of authority. Oh, yeah, and the there was the predictable, “Just following orders” claim by police involved.

      If cops, with cameras rolling everywhere, can’t understand that their every action will be broadcast 24/7, those cops need to be removed, permanently, from law enforcement jobs. The elderly man shoved to the ground didn’t make cops look bad, cops were all to eager to do that to themselves.

      And that is why the vitriol aimed at cops on this forum.

    • “And if you are a cop with your hands tied or even thrown under the BLM bus by the liberal overlords whose campaigns you funded with all your union dues, fuck you too. You LEOs bear a big part of the blame. You could have chosen against playing GI Joe and instead kept being community members. But no, that wasn’t cool enough for you was it. No, you had to gear up and commence to no-knocking and killing dogs and killing actual innocent people, and especially and ESPECIALLY: circling the wagons for the very worst of you.”

      Just a snippet from a great anti-cop rant at Ace Of Spades…

  38. The local PD’s should attend these “defund the police” rallies and have each attendant fill out a form…..I give up all my rights to police protection or any interaction for life””

    After its filled out with address names and car licenses..
    The PD will only contact you if you break a law involving the outside population…murder your wife/husband who signed the form…they don’t come
    next door hoodrat gangbanger kills ya…the PD don’t care
    home is robbed…well you know not to call the PD!

    house on fire and PD sees it first…they don’t call the FD except to save the building next door…your home gets to burn
    your car is in a wreck…the PD just lets you bleed out and has a private company come haul you car and dead ass away for burial!

    • Cool does that also mean I can drive at a safe but unapproved speed upon the roads my gas tax money pays for? Can I use what ever substance I want without the government sticking it’s nose in my business? Can I own any firearm I want, no matter if it is full auto or “too short” without a government permission slip? Can I do away with the yearly tax bill for my home? Scrap those compelled government speech plates on my vehicle? Or is it just your scare tactics that will be in effect?

      • you did not read that part….”The PD will only contact you if you break a law involving the outside population””

        it real sad when a person can’t read

  39. These are the same people who want a Socialist Government. So let’s give it to them. All police officers will be transferred to the National Guard. There will be curfews under Martial Law. Out after curfew without papers, you’re shot. In an area labeled “Restricted”, you’re shot. Involved in a riot, you’re shot. No rubber bullets, just hollow points & FMJ. Ever been in a country under Martial Law? I have. There is no appeals, there is no pity. People will be begging for a return to a police presence. You can’t end racism. It’s in the individual. You can educate from day 1 & still the environment will influence anyone’s outlook. Don’t want police brutality, DON’T RESIST ARREST.

  40. The Right in America have a love-hate relationship with the police. They love cops for enforcing laws but they hate the gun control laws that they enforce. At the same time, they know that it isn’t the politicians who have enforced every infringement to date. The politicians will need someone to confiscate all those guns from freedom-loving Americans some day.
    Every coin has two sides. I’m not impressed with either side.

    • Policing gets bounced back and forth being hated by the left and right decade by decade. Hated by the left in the 60s\70s. Hated by the right in the 90s. Briefly seen as necessary after 9/11. Now back to being hated by the left since about 2012.

      But the demographics of cops have changed quite a bit.

  41. Step 1: Complain about the quality of a governmental agency
    Step 2: Cut funding for that agency
    Step 3: Complain about the quality of the same agency now that it has even less resources to do the job you’ve given it.

    Isn’t this the kind of thing liberals say that the GOP does all the time?

  42. Instead of defunding, why not just weed out arrogant thugs and bullies and hire — well, I don’t know, maybe — good people?

      • There are many reason why people become cops.

        Lifetime pension after 20 years — I can respect that.

        Fighting crime — it would be a good reason, except most cops can only fight crime in the small interval between handing out traffic tickets.

        Liking the quasi-military lifestyle — some people do.

        Government job with a bit of prestige — sanitation workers don’t get enough respect.

        Carry a gun at work — show me another career where they let you shoot people.

        Wanting power over other people — that’s the one that needs weeding out.

  43. Fine, don’t allow police in areas that hate police and don’t want them.
    They have no problem murdering each other by the 100’s every week, just don’t let a white person, police kill
    any one or all hell is going to break loose. All that really matters is what skin color the person is, not that they were killed

  44. defunding the police will never happen, the left will need all the stormtroopers they can get.and it is the left that funds, grows, and empowers these stormtroopers. and the dumb left wing voters vote for the people who make it all happen, the communist. what we see here is the future of our country when the communist party ( AKA the “democrats”) win and get there way.and the stupid people who vote for them don’t see it. and they keep on voting the communist and we get (some, not all) police responses like this. and they complain, but they are the ones who make it happen when they vote. imagine when there are no guns legally owned by us, what do you think the police will be like then? and if not the police, then they will be replaced by troops. all in all things like this last tragedy will be common. FOR THE WORKING PEOPLE . COMRAD!

  45. Fewer cops mean fewer people being arrested for unconstitutional gun “crimes”. Fewer cops mean fewer Americans being arrested for self medication with a non government approved substance or without a government permission slip. Fewer cops mean less road piracy. Fewer cops mean a reduced risk of wrong address unconstitutional no knock raids. Fewer cops mean fewer Terry Stops where we have court approved unconstitutional searches of citizens. Cops prey upon Americans, they do not protect them.

  46. The pendulum swings far and wide. While they’re at it, defund all the state and federal bureaucracies that arbitrarily crate they’re own policies. Disband them all, cut the fat and save billions.

  47. This is payback by dems for police unions that mostly support trump. Firemen and teachers take note.

    $ will only flow where they buy votes for those in power. Nothing else matters.

    • Smart point. It’s always about gaining power, and crushing their enemies. It’s also worth mentioning that they want that funding for themselves to help them politically.

  48. We all know where this is going, and it ain’t pretty. The formal LEO system has to be dumped…de-funded, dis-banded… Obummer’s promised army (forget his actual term) stronger than the standing military can evolve. Obummer hasn’t retired. He’s just working under the radar to destroy America.

    • Obama’s promised army already exists. It is ANTIFA, BLM, ISIS, and probably a bunch of others we don’t even know about yet.

  49. How long do you think big cities would last with no cops?
    Apple HQ would become a flop house!
    Chi-town assassinations would spread to the mile.
    They couldn’t call New York new antmore.

  50. Not all those at the riots were evil people. Good people were out there too. A WW2 flag from the U.S.S. Reno was stolen during a break in. Surprisingly enough, it was returned anonymously with an interesting note. “Needed protecting. Looters were flag burning. R.I.P. George Floyd.”

  51. Here’s a simple solution. If we get rid of all the police and confiscate all the arms from peaceable, lawful citizens, we’ll always have the option of forming a posse…oh wait.

  52. Police agencies facing funding cuts will simply use asset forfeiture laws to privatize their operations…..minorities will be targeted in huge numbers as they don’t have the resources to hire attorneys to help them get their property back…..police depts have been doing this for years since Ronald Reagan’s so called “war on drugs” ushered in these new unconstitutional laws….slashing police budgets will only hurt race relations, not help them, but I think that is what these lib”tards’ want to happen….I think with this hate campaign being waged on law enforcement there will be little to no cooperation with these fine folks when it comes to red flag or any other kinds of gun confiscations from law abiding citizens …..I think the police depts in the smaller towns are proud of the community support they have received when towns people showed up in force with their AR-15s , shot guns rifles and handguns all at the ready waiting for the Anti-FA, Black lives matter and their para-military trained Black Panthers to show up….you can rest assured that 90 percent of the entire land area of the USA is full of such small towns ready and willing to defend their communites from all enemies both foreign and domestic….SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM…..stay safe out there.

  53. U think things are crazy now?? Let the police go away! USA=Worse than Yemen on its best day….mass salughter…and the non-binary libtard pu$$ies will be yelling for POLICE! POLICE COME HELP US!!!!!!!!! PLEZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!

  54. The Globalist Liberal NAZI Demoncrat Commie party and the useful idiots don’t give a crap about gun violence! They just want to take away your guns to leave you defenseless against Government tyranny! Wake up patriots before it’s too late! Defend the 2nd amendment!

  55. We have too much policing because we have too many crimes. Way too many crimes. Drugs, prostitution, anything having to do with a victimless vice should be left alone. Look at how the police function now. They’ll chase people all over town for a bag of dried leaves, but if your car gets stolen they can’t be bothered to help at all. They go where the seizable assets are.

    End the drug war, get rid of asset seizure, cut them down to the level required to deal with ACTUAL crimes. Let the drug trade operate openly and with legal protection so they stop shooting each other. It’s no coincidence that so much violence takes place in businesses that are popular and unprotected by the law.

    We don’t need to defund the police. We need to destroy the police state.

  56. Let Minneapolis be the test city. They want it anyway. When crimes runs rampant, the bodies pile up & the criminals realize that all the good stuff to steal is in the rich neighborhoods, they’ll refund the police. Don’t back them up with troops or anyone else. After the bloodbath begins the rich will force the city to fund the police. Minneapolis wants it, give it to them.


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