Texas School Shooting
(AP Photo/Dario Lopez-Mills)
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As more details of tragic shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas emerge, one disturbing thing now stands out: the apparently long, long time it took to end the threat to the children in the school.

For those of us who have had law enforcement training, the events in Uvalde fly directly in the face of what police have been taught since Columbine. Prior to that atrocity, the accepted thinking in law enforcement was to gather a sufficient team, enter the building carefully, and then methodically end any threats using negotiation if possible. This thinking was largely centered around hostage situations, which can go on for hours or even days. Because hostage-takers’ only leverage is the lives of those they’re holding, being slow and methodical was a good way to keep deaths to a minimum.

Columbine and 9/11 disabused us of that notion.

From “Comply To Survive” to “Let’s Roll.”

Columbine taught first-responders that active shooters have very different objectives. Instead of demanding concessions from authorities, the idea is usually to maximize the number of dead and wounded to gain as much fame as possible (this is a twisted version of the human instinct to want to be remembered after death, and to feel like our life had meaning), with no expectation of leaving the scene alive.

For airliners, 9/11 was a similar paradigm shift. Prior airline hostage situations usually ended up with something like an unexpected flight to Cuba or a tense runway standoff that only differed from other hostage situations in terms of location. The thinking prior to 9/11, was that complying with the hostage-takers was the best way to maximize survival, even if the situation could be traumatic and highly inconvenient. But, the 9/11 hijackers were much like the Columbine shooters, with no intention of their own survival.

The lessons learned from both 9/11 and Columbine were basically the same: Let’s roll.

With this new kind of threat, the best way to minimize loss of life is to act quickly and decisively, engaging the threat as soon as possible, regardless of personal risk. Like the Flight 93 passengers who defeated the terrorists and saved countless lives at the cost of their own, the job of a responding police officer (or one already on the scene) is to step up and deal with the threat immediately, regardless of personal risk.

The job requires an attitude and mindset that most people would find unacceptable. Survival alone can’t be your goal. Like the Jem’Hadar in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, if you’re the first officer there, you have to assume going in that you’re already dead, and that you’re going into battle to reclaim your life. The only way to do that is to prevail over the shooter(s), so you’ve got to do that job or expend your last breath trying.

The Era of the Suicidal Shooter

This completely selfless warrior mindset, this Bushido-like code of conduct, generally didn’t ask responding officers for that ultimate sacrifice in the 10 to 15 years after 9/11 and Columbine. Even weak and sometimes ineffectual armed opposition from police or armed civilians was usually sufficient to stop the threat. These early post-Columbine shooters didn’t intend to be killed by cops and would often kill themselves or surrender (usually the former) at the first sign of resistance.

I was told in a police academy that they’d probably just kill themselves, so it was a good idea to run on in and make that happen as quickly as possible in order to save lives.

Some People Don’t Have The Guts

Even with that in mind, we’ve sadly seen that some people just aren’t willing to take that much personal risk no matter how they were trained. After a Broward County Sheriff’s deputy failed to take action, many agencies changed their policies to say that responding personnel shall respond with force, rather than may respond with force. But policy changes can’t change personalities and characters, so we don’t know whether that kind of response will happen until the situation happens.

Mass Killers Adapt To Armed Resistance

Mass shooters, through their various online “communities” and the raw fame of past killers have adapted their tactics. More modern mass killers know that armed citizens, security personnel, and police officers are likely to respond quickly, so ending their shooting spree as soon as someone fires at them will mean seriously reduced body counts…and fame.

The manifesto and preparations of the recent Buffalo shooter are a great example of this. He knew he would be up against security personnel and possibly (though far less likely) an armed citizen. He prepared and chose his target accordingly. A relatively unprepared security guard actually shot the Buffalo killer, but he wore body armor and managed to win that fight and continue the murder spree until police arrived.

The Uvalde Shooter

The Uvalde school shooing happened a few days ago, so this is based on current reports that may later prove wrong or incomplete, but based on what we’ve seen, we’re looking at a continuation of the trend I describe above. The shooter thought through and planned his attack.

However, according to media reports — however accurate they may be — police reportedly didn’t try to enter the building immediately. Some reports indicate a delay of 30 minutes and possibly as much as an hour.

From the AP . . .

Frustrated onlookers urged police officers to charge into the Texas elementary school where a gunman’s rampage killed 19 children and two teachers, witnesses said Wednesday, as investigators worked to track the massacre that lasted upwards of 40 minutes and ended when the 18-year-old shooter was killed by a Border Patrol team.

“Go in there! Go in there!” nearby women shouted at the officers soon after the attack began, said Juan Carranza, 24, who saw the scene from outside his house, across the street from Robb Elementary School in the close-knit town of Uvalde. Carranza said the officers did not go in.

Javier Cazares, whose fourth grade daughter, Jacklyn Cazares, was killed in the attack, said he raced to the school when he heard about the shooting, arriving while police were still gathered outside the building.

Upset that police were not moving in, he raised the idea of charging into the school with several other bystanders.

“Let’s just rush in because the cops aren’t doing anything like they are supposed to,” he said. “More could have been done.”

“They were unprepared,” he added.

Officials say [the shooter] “encountered” a school district security officer outside the school, though there were conflicting reports from authorities on whether the men exchanged gunfire. After running inside, he fired on two arriving Uvalde police officers who were outside the building, said Texas Department of Public Safety spokesperson Travis Considine. The police officers were injured.

After entering the school, Ramos charged into one classroom and began to kill.

The shooter eventually faced armed resistance, reportedly from an off-duty Border Patrol tactical unit agent who charged into the school. Gunfire was exchanged, the Border Patrol agent was wounded, but managed to kill the shooter.


We don’t know yet why responding officers didn’t attempt to enter the school sooner. There are many aspects of what took place in Uvalde that haven’t been revealed as of this writing. It took days and weeks for what happened at Parkland to emerge.

For now, though, based on the current reports, it appears that responding officers didn’t follow long-established protocols for responding to school shootings and similar situations. The officers who were there that day will have a lot of questions to answer.

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204 COMMENTS

  1. If my kid or wife was in there, I would’ve gone home, get my AR-15, and gone in trying not to get shot as much as I could. What are the police going to do? Shoot you from behind?

    • Yes. Then they’ll go to your house, plant drugs or child porn, and shoot your dog.

    • With you. Looks like they spent more effort keeping parents out than storming the shooter.

      • Appearances can be deceiving as much as public narratives. We can have suspicions but more information will be needed for critical thought.

      • Of course- bullying the parents was MUCH safer than trying to protect the children.

      • If the police truly not only didn’t go in, but also actually prevented other people from doing so, then they should be charged as accessories to murder. That would make them accomplices to the murderer.

        Any police officer who is not willing to lay down his own life to defend the life of a young child is a coward and disgrace to the uniform.

        Yes, your wife my become a widow, and your children orphans, but that is the job, and the job comes with risks.

        • typically I reject the whole “you signed up for this” because no one signs up to die. ESPECIALLY if it’s in the context saying a cop should risk his life to try and not shoot some nutjob trying to stab him

          However, in this case, yes. There is no more important urgency than the one they faced, and they failed.

          There were almost certainly be no criminal charges and it’s likely that even civil charges will fail due to federal caselaw. However, nobody there should have a job if they waited an hour unless it was a guy who was incapacitated because he was shot trying to go in the first time (giving the benefit of the doubt there).

    • The cops ain’t gonna let you do that, theyd take away your gunm and tell you to go home.

    • A few years ago, I read a short story about a nationwide concerted effort by terr0rists to do this to over a dozen schools in a district simultaneously, knowing the local resources wouldn’t be able to adequately respond. The parents outside the schools became frustrated and brought their own guns to conduct their own rescue efforts, and the few LEOs already outside the schools couldn’t tell which adults were the good guys and which were the bad guys. The LEOs barked commands at the parents to drop their weapons, but after hearing shots fired from within the school buildings, the parents rushed forward in desperation to save their kids. In the chaos, the LEOs shot anyone with a gun, and at the end of the story terr0rists, children, and many parents were dead. The final chapter included a scene in which anti-gun politicians pushed thru a severe gun control bill with astonishingly high support.

    • Yes they would shoot you in the back and the media would prsise them. Its pretty clear that police only serve themselves and not the public.

    • Unfortunately I have to say that today the police would shoot you in the back just so you would not expose them for being the cowards that they are. When seconds count the police might be standing there for 30 minutes or more while they work up the nerve to do something. You can’t really fault them though. Most of them did not sign up for this and going head-to-head with somebody already in position who’s armed with a rifle is not for everyone.

      • We drafted 18 year old boys and sent them to face the Viet Cong, the Nazis, Imperial Japan, etc.

        Professional career police officers should be held to a higher standard than 18 year old conscripts.

        • One of my uncles was only 16 when he enlisted post-Pearl Harbor. The local recruiter looked the other way and let him lie about his age. He wasn’t going to turn away someone willing to serve, especially a healthy well-built farmboy.

      • But they did sign up for it Officer Bill. Literally. Every one of them. And the taxes of the parents whose children were killed went in part to pay the wages of these brave public defenders who, you can damn well bet, would go all rocks, scissors, paper to be first in the stack if they got the order from On High to kick in your door to confiscate your guns at zero dark thirty. Count on it. But of course, being an Officer n all, your door would likely get a pass, am I right?

  2. History = wash, rinse, & repeat.
    “ Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”- Winston Churchill

    Evidently those LEOs didn’t understand.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” –
    utilitarian philosopher John Stuart Mill

    • Hoping my comment below is not the key takeaway as it sounds like there was an initial attempt that got a few officers wounded but we will see what details emerge and how bad this was handled. If the border patrol agent going in and engaging the shooter is accurate it sounds like he had similar active shooter training to what MP’s were getting after the Fort Hood shooting.

    • Actually, they did. They immediately tried to enter the building and continuously tried to enter the building.

      • I simply cannot believe that given how easy it was for the single gunman to enter the building.

        • Entering the building was not the problem. Multiple officers busted out windows and got children to safety.
          Entering the now locked fortified and barricaded classroom door was the problem.

        • Purely speculating on this but is sounds like weirdo asshole had all the time in the world with a classroom full of victims but had limited mobility afterwards.

        • SAFE, we don’t know when the first cops got there yet, but we know that some were there 17 minutes after the first call. According to the briefing provided last night, by that time those officers got there, there were no gunshots heard inside the school and the shooter was already locked inside one classroom with the door barricaded. There were some officers, and we don’t know who the were, where they came from, or how many there were, that got there sooner and did hear gunshots. Those officers did immediately attempt to enter the school and were fired upon as the shooter barricaded himself in the room.

        • jwtaylor, I do not look forward to the lessons learned briefs from this event. I know there will be important takeaways but I have a bad feeling on how sick this guy seemed to be even before response times/procedures get monday morning quarterbacked.

        • SAFE, this dude was pure nuts. He was a cutter, and apparently cut and mutilated his own face because, according to one of his friends “it felt good”.
          The big question is how he so quickly got into the school in the first place.
          Where he got the money to buy 3-5K in gear at once is another question.

        • jwt may have a guess on the last one, if he was working his tax return on the earned income tax credit could cover some if not most of the purchases given the timing of when this shitstorm happenened compared to typical tax season.

        • @jwtaylor
          and his truck was fairly nice too, which, as you said, begs the question. 3-5k worth of gear.

        • SAFE, according to the most recent DPS update that just happened a few minutes ago, both the school door and the room door were open. He walked right in.
          He covered between 40 and 60 ft before he was inside the classroom shooting kids. Less than a minute, really only seconds inside the school before he was in the classroom.

        • jwt that will very likely be on the next round of suggestions for trainings re lock the damned external doors during school hours and keep classroom doors locked during class. May not change the outcome but may also reduce opportunities for minimal efforts on the part of the school.

    • Mill did use that quote, but he borrowed it from Edmund Burke, who said it almost 100 years beforehand in the 1770s.

    • tis saying is garbage. In such situation any GOOD MAN will NOT do nothing.
      Anyone who DOES do nothing when confronted with evil becomes an aider and abettor of that evil.
      Thus the saying is utterly false. A good man WILL do what can be done, or try. Anyone who refuses to deal with the sitution when he can is evil, and part of the problem.

      • It would be more correct to say that evil triumphs when people who know what is right (just, rational, founded on factual truth) choose instead to do what is nice (pleasing to feelings; calculated to make others like us).

        People generally don’t start out completely evil, but simply wanting to get as much while doing as little as possible. People who want to “help” (insulate people who make negative choices from their just and natural consequences, at the expense of people who make positive choices) create perverse incentives for evil.

  3. Easy to second guess, but everyone should know by now you DO shoot first and ask questions later!

    • That’s just a District Court ruling, look at Castle Rock v. Gonzales for a USSC ruling

    • Yep. Police have no obligation to do anything. They are there to pick up the pieces. And people keep wondering why events like this continue to occur.

      • Shouldn’t be surprised but that does raise further questions. I am guessing there are likely quite a few other tidbits of corrections to the initial reports pending.

  4. I’ve seen reports this morning, with amateur video, and you can plainly hear bystanders urging LE to enter the building. What you do not hear are gun shots. This is prompting speculation that entry had been made, and the suspect killed, at the time the video was recorded. Remember, after the threat is over and everyone is safe job one is secure the scene and preserve evidence. That begins with securing the exterior perimeter. You also want as few people as possible contaminating the scene. Let’s wait for the facts and leave speculation to the media.

    • Hoping you are correct just worried it may be overly optimistic. That said absolutely correct more info is needed before assembling a timeline.

      • SAFE, just saw an “updated” report. This talking head is crediting the Texas Department of Public Safety/Texas Rangers. At the time of the video LE was attempting to breach at two points. The officers being yelled at were assigned to crowd control. As an aside, it was also reported that two of the deceased victims are the wife and grandaughter of local LE. Many forget that LE, their friends and family are members of the whole community. They’re out there among you every day.

        • Yep. The article is totally wrong.
          Multiple officers were attempting to breach immediately.

        • Well, the first thing they ever do at a press conference post-tragedy is brag about how great the first responders were, “if they hadn’t done blah blah blah then many more people would have been killed.” That’s ALWAYS the narrative, first and foremost, “our brave and courageous men saved the day,” to the point of “thou dost protesteth too much.” Every time.

        • Unfortunately, I have, all too often. I picked up on the theme and noticed the consistency of the narrative, going back years. Always the same. I support LEOs and want to believe the best, but I pay attention. You clearly are trying to get your own point across, to the point of dismissing what others say as just wrong. Fine, you’re some kind of “insider” maybe with buddies in the mix, I’m just an observer, but a perceptive one.
          You hear what you hear, I hear what I hear. Keep pounding the rock, you’re not necessarily wrong, but don’t tell me I haven’t been watching. You’re wrong about that.

        • Travis, we started hearing good things about officers arriving on scene last night. Before that, the press conferences hosted by the Governor and the Mayor of Uvalde repeatedly said they were still putting together the chain of events and repeatedly said they were figuring out when and who responded.
          There was some initial credit giving to a single BorTac officer, but that was quickly walked back by CBP itself who pointed out the he did not, in fact, go in alone as was part of a tactical team.
          I don’t have inside knowledge, and nobody has to. Everyone is talking very publicly.

        • Yeah, the article s totally wrong, multiple officers trying to breach immeditely!

    • Now we know that there were still kids in the classroom hiding. At least one bled out waiting for help.

  5. Oh man. Terrible things happen, and the people give up their freedom for security. The immediacy of the horror blots out any long term thinking of the cost of laws and edicts put in place in the aftermath. We saw it with 9/11 (Patriot Act), COVID (lockdowns), and now these events. Congress right now is debating a Federal red flag law. No one is thinking about how this will be abused.

    Same cycle over and over, until our freedoms are gone.

    • If the red flag law is anything like the domestic violence law it will be abused. Good at first then
      just another excuse to disarm the citezens.

  6. Not sure if you’ve been to a school in Texas lately, but they’re locked down like prisons these days. The police were probably locked out of the place until allowed in.

    • Yup. Except for those pesky unlocked rear doors like the one the shooter came in through. Almost like he knew how to get in. Like it was left unlocked for him. But that’s crazy talk. It’s not like the regime has anything to gain from letting a nut kill a bunch of kids over his unpaid phone bill, right?

      • “Consipracy theorist!”

        However, it’s quite remarkable how many “conspiracy theories” have become true of late, isn’t it?

      • Shire, based on my experience the school staff is often their own worst enemy when it comes to security. During my career I was an SRO at four different public schools. Among the staff I saw apathy, laziness (read not wanting to be inconvenienced by locked doors) to outright denial that it could “happen here.” A retired LEO friend of mine is a “School Safety Officer” at a private school. He said he continues to encounter the same problems today.

        • People are always the weakest link in security. They’ll write passwords on post-its and leave them on their desk. They’ll create “easy-to-remember” passwords rather than use a vault/generator. They’ll prop open security doors and leave secure elevators open to secure floors. They share key-fobs and panel codes.

          Then they cry and scream about the failure of the security measures they defeated themselves.

      • Yep, the High School 2 blocks from my house has very impressive front door security…..meanwhile there are several doors on every other side that have no security, people are constantly coming and going through those doors, with NO security.

  7. The police don’t want anybody to go into the building because they need the victim’s to bleed out first. Just like they stood down and allowed rioters to burn cities to the ground. Each time the cops just follow orders from the government.

    The government needs more dead children. Your dead children.

    But not Amy Carter. Not Chelsea Clinton. Not the Obama daughters. They get armed guards carrying machine guns. And their school buildings turned into a fortress.

    • Chris if that is true and ever becomes public accepted fact there isn’t enough security in the country for them. Trying not to don the tinfoil crown this month but news is making it hard.

      • That SRO in Parkland Florida he just stood there and did nothing. While students and faculty were being murdered. The parents of those children went to his house. However the local sheriff’s department decided to protect him from this vengeful righteously angry mob. It’s too bad open carry is illegal in Florida. Except when you’re fishing apparently.

        I understand that scum sheriff’s deputy has been arrested for lying under oath about what he did that day. So if he goes to jail?
        He’ll spend six months a year perhaps?

        He could be like Jesse Smollett who was only in jail for a day or two.

    • Chris no LEO I’ve ever known wanted a victim to bleed out. Especially a child. That was a shameful thing to say.

      • Andy Nyo, I hope I spelled his name correctly, was beaten to the point of brain injuries. All the while the city cops watched. And he was not the only one.

        A really good police officer shot one girl with a knife. To save the life of another girl. In a split second. Fortunately we still have good cops.

        But yes. There are cops who will just stand there and watch as a city is burned to the ground. By a “well armed” mob.

  8. When my kids were in elementary school in San Diego the schools were all locked down, metal detectors, armed police. We had to make an appointment to go on campus and bring our ID. That was because kids were bringing drugs and guns to school at an elementary school. So why don’t we have adequate security at all schools? How could this little insane fool walk onto the campus with the police trying to stop him and then kill all these kids and teachers? Lack of adequate security – the fault is with the school and local government, plus they had advance notice from the killer that he was going to shoot up a school???? Why are our schools not secure? The school, their administrators, the local city/county government, the local police and sheriff all need to be sued by the parents and relatives of the teachers for their inability to offer the children reasonable protection! Shame on them. We do not yet know if the killer was an illegal alien, but his family needs to be held accountable as well. This should never have happened!

    • Apparently, Grampa, that the kid was staying with for the last couple of weeks is a prohibited felon, i.e. no guns should have been on the premises… oops. Guess he just didn’t notice two ARs and a bunch of tactical gear inside of his own home? It wasn’t exactly a McMansion from the looks of it.

    • Most “SRO” in the US are the chickcops or brokedicks that can’t make it elsewhere. IE: Faux “security”.

  9. How about, hardening the entry doors so crazed killers can’t walk in and kill students?

    That’s how you “Keep that from ever happening again…”

    • Geoff. I retired from a school district over a decade ago. Teachers are the absolute worst for believing that the rules apply to everybody but them. The first time a locked door presents any hindrance to a teacher it will be disabled or overridden.

      Each classroom is a separate domain and trying to get these little monarchs to do anything uniformly is a hopeless cause. Unless you bring back flogging.

      • We provide them a building with doors that lock. If they choose to leave them open, point the blame at the school staff…

        • DPS regional director just did an update. The doors to the school and to the classroom were both open.

  10. We need to rethink the entire public school model. These institutions are concentration camps and death traps. Many parents use public schools as free baby-sitting. Vouchers for private schools and home-schooling would be a good start.

    Get the government out of education. Since the Department of Education was established in the late seventies, schools are become far worse than they were. But, as usual, such Federal programs are far more about control than quality.

  11. From this post, it appears that we get what we ask for.

    Do police chiefs recruit candidates for their Bushido character? Or, for their bravery in pursuing and ticketing unarmed compliant motorists? Those few who demonstrate Bushido character; are these assigned to the mayor’s personal security detail or to RSO positions?

    As evidenced by Broward County’s Sheriff’s Department, American society is probably not going to drift toward a Bushido-character police force. Not going to happen.

    Nor is it going to happen that our entire society will drift toward a Bushido-character.

    So, then what? Would an individual:
    – of prudent character,
    – finding him-/her-self facing personal imminent death,
    – with the capacity to defend life,
    – rise to the occasion?
    Is a Bushido character a necessary ingredient?
    Or, is the pessary ingredient simply a modest measure of self-preservation instinct?

    It seems to me that the only realistic course of action is to train and arm as many personnel at vulnerable sites (schools, supermarkets, stadiums, etc.) as possible to conceal carry and be instantaneous responders.

    It would also help if the press could suppress their instinct to earn another nickel for the sale of another newspaper, and to develop a code-of-conduct minimizing the personal identification of suspects. If our society can self-regulate hemlines and necklines as well as grammar and style in newspaper columns, we ought to be able to self-regulate the promotion of infamy by suicidal mass killers.

    • “It seems to me that the only realistic course of action is to train and arm as many personnel at vulnerable sites (schools, supermarkets, stadiums, etc.) as possible to conceal carry and be instantaneous responders.”

      Exactly. Those already inside the building and so in harm’s way have the incentive to fight for their lives and the lives of the children.

      Those outside have to summon up the courage to go INTO harm’s way, an entirely different mind-set.

    • BSO has been trash for a long time. I really was not shocked by the pathetic response in Parkland.

  12. You know happens when you come to conclusions before the facts are known? You get everything wrong. Again. Still.

    Multiple officers attempted to enter the building immediately. More than 80 CBP officers arrived on scene and attempted access. They couldn’t find a key to enter.

    We don’t yet know how the shooter got in.

    • This is the first I have heard of this. You are painting an image of armed cops going from one locked door to another locked door.

      So as gunfire is being heard from inside the building. And children and teachers are screaming for their lives. No cop thought it was a good idea to actually shoot the locks out of the doors so they could get inside???

      I have watched soldiers using 12 gauge shotguns blast the locks and door handles completely away allowing them to then open the door.

      • Depending on the door 12 gauge would be less than effective if the bolts involved in the hinges are meant for heavier doors and a halogen tool would be more appropriate. But don’t know what steps Texas took in hardening schools (sounds like more than most of NY).

        • Most outside school doors have a rectangular window in them. Why not blast the glass. Then reach inside and open the door???

          Or how about just smash a classroom window and go in that way???

        • if they do not have additional lock bars that go into the floor/ceiling and/or smaller windows that would be out of reach of door controls that could be an option. Lot of variables to speculate on but we were moving away from 12 gauge breechings a decade ago and I can only imagine there are reasons for it.

      • I’m not surprised you haven’t heard of it yet, as sensationalist bullshit is pervasive.
        Some group of officers, we don’t now who, how many, or where they came from, arrived in time to at least hear the shooing. They immediately tried to enter and some of those officers were shot as the shooter barricaded himself in a locked classroom. We know that a whole lot of officers continued to arrive (the Sherriff last night said more than 150) pulling kids from classrooms with exterior windows.

    • And you’re speculating as well, unless you have confirmed that information with multiple primary sources who were at the scene and involved in that event.

      • Yes we are speculating. Until we get more information that is confirmed and accurate. Until then it is a very obvious question to ask. This building has Windows that face the outside. And no one thought of smashing them to get inside???

      • My comments are from listening to and watching the CPB officials and Sherriff who were on scene at the time of the shooting, who have provided briefs multiple times a day.

        • You do realize that LE agencies are giving some details of the incident that conflict with other agencies, correct?

        • Thank you for giving me the facts. Seriously. I think I’ll wait until YOU tell me more. Instead of the Media.

      • But we also know that several officers were wounded which means that at least some of them were trying to deal with the shooter.

      • Travis, I’ve said it before. Though it has been a while since I’ve had too. You think you can do it better? Suit up and go getcha’ some! Show us how to really do it!

        • No thanks, I don’t want to be a cop, I like making money. Show me where I said I could do it better? That’s an easy deflection, they’re the ones who are supposed to do it, they’re the ones who are trained. Not me, and not the shooter. He won that day.
          I want to support LE but they make it hard, and they don’t support the people who support them. By your comments here, I deduce you were probably A-OK when you were in the game. What I see out there now is a bunch of tatted-up assholes who escalate the situation more often than not and fail frequently when lives are on the line. The older ones I encounter are reasonable and easy-going, this current mag-dump generation are fuckheads, speaking broadly. And down in Uvalde they failed those kids.

      • No, they didn’t. Windows were immediately smashed and kids brought out.
        We have no idea, yet, what the situation was that kept the officers from being able to get into the classroom. We do know it was a locked, fortified, and barricaded door. We don’t know if there was a window to that classroom. We do know that officers did enter the classroom and were immediately fired upon by a man with a rifle at very close range, one being struck in the head, before killing the shooter. We also know that the first officers were shot as they entered the school when the killer barricaded himself in the classroom.
        There are times when cops have been cowards. This does not appear to have been one of those times.

        • Not saying they’re cowards, they just didn’t get it done for whatever reason. Why is that so hard to admit? You’re a straight shooter, you have an informed opinion, you’ve been in the heat. I believe you and many others if left to their own devices would have made a move earlier in the incident to mitigate a few deaths, and if not, it would have been worth the effort. If what I’m hearing is correct, somebody finally did make a move and ended this thing. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn he made his move independently, and non-verified sources confirm as much.

        • You’re right, they couldn’t get it done “for whatever reason.”
          You don’t know that reason and you don’t know that it could have been done any better.
          When you don’t know what you’re talking about, keep your mouth shut.

        • Heed your own advice, asshole. My opinion is just as valid as yours, just because you’re rude and arrogant doesn’t make you right.

        • You run your mouth calling the officers incompetent when you have no idea what you’re talking about, but you call me rude.
          Grow up.

        • It’s generally best to wait until all the facts are in before rendering judgement. But there are circumstances that are an exception to that rule. One of those exceptions is when the party controlling access to those facts is the same party whose conduct is at issue.

        • Jesus, you’re so lacking in self-awareness that it hard to fathom, and I know behind that need to always be right is a deep insecurity. So, I’ll help you out here, yeah, telling people they have no idea what they’re talking about and to shut their mouth, while YOU don’t know either and are running your OWN mouth more than anybody on this forum with your obstinate defense of LEO when Ray Charles could see they fell far short in this instance, would be considered pretty damn rude to a rational adult. Therefore, I responded in kind. Who made you the arbiter of truth here, anyway, Capt. America? I’ve made my damn point, and I’m far from alone in my observations, and I can tell you’re one of those thin-skinned, self-righteous little roosters that simply MUST get the last word in, so I’ll leave you with this: soak your head in butter and ram it up a dead cow’s ass.

          Of course, any real comeback to that will fall short, though I’m sure you’ll make an attempt, so you’re welcome to the last word, I am OUT.

        • Travis, and the newest update from the DPS regional director only proves my point.
          You keep running your mouth that the cops were incompetent, that they all got to go home, that they didn’t do enough.
          Welcome to the real world buttercup, sometimes you just have to make the best of a bad situation.
          The reality here is that you couldn’t shut up when you didn’t know what you were talking about and you got called out on it. Now you’re all butthurt while acting like you’re the tough guy that would have rushed right in to save the day. Pathetic.

    • “More than 80 CBP officers arrived on scene and attempted access. They couldn’t find a key to enter.”

      80 cops and not one with a breaching standoff on their cruiser shotguns?

      • Is that all they would have needed to get in the door? How was the door hardened? How was the room barricaded?

        • Why are you so bent on defending the police on this? 80+ officers versus one deranged and twisted loser? Have you ever been in a school lately? The doors are solid, they are fire rated doors but they are not Fort Knox. I have a really hard time understanding how anyone could let Little kids be terrorized by an evil calculated psycho for at least 30 minutes.
          We don’t have the truth on this situation so all our judgment is without the facts. That being said, I’m willing to bet that if the dads in that crowd outside the school had the equipment those 80 “law enforcement” officers had they would have been in that room in 5 minutes. Americans used to damn the torpedoes, now they get arrested while there kids are being murdered.

    • There is always a danger of being wrong about the facts when it is the press reporting them. However, IF they are even close to correct about the way this went down and how the responding police backed off, it’s a complete scandal.

      You know what our training is if we encounter a locked door in an active shooter situation coming from about 2015-on? Kick it down. Get in there by any means possible and keep trying until it happens. Once you get in there, engage the shooter and get through obstacles in the same manner. There is no worst case scenario other than letting him methodically murder every kid in there.

      Can’t get through a door? Break a window. Make a goddamn human pyramid if necessary. Ram a patrol vehicle through a wall if you can find somewhere to look inside and see that you’re not going to run a dozen kids over.

      So unless every cop that got there was constantly stymied for an hour because this school had physical security comparable to Fort Knox (despite having unlocked doors when the bad guy came calling) I don’t think these excuses are gonna fly.

  13. Lets face facts most Cops are brave only when the opponent is unarmed and they can put a gun in a persons face during a mundane traffic stop but put them up against armed resistance and most of the cops run like rabbits.

    If the story of the lone cop that did charge in and kill the gunman is true he is definitely A-typical of the breed and is to be honored for his heroic action.

    The news reported this morning the nut case simply walked in by an unlocked back door. One officer did attempt to stop him but it is unclear if gunfire was exchanged.

    One thing for sure if the cops had rushed in student lives would have been saved.

    • But you want the police to have the right to disarm us. Your mental illness shines brighter than the monsters that just killed those kids.

  14. If my one of my kids got shot itd be pretty hard for me not to hate gunms. However that’s reverse logic.
    One of my sons was injured in moto X , I felt like throwing his bike in the creek. Then I calmed down a bit and thought things over.

  15. No-balls cops following ‘protocol’, huh? Details are still kinda sketchy, but 30 minutes is far, far, far too long for a gunman to be allowed unopposed access to victims.

    It’s easy to say that you would be braver, bolder, and that you would have resolved the situation sooner. I’d like to think that I would have done so. But – there have been times when I was bold and brave, and there have been others when I wasn’t bold enough.

    You would think that with a dozen cops huddled around the scene, ONE OF THEM would take action.

    Maybe they were waiting for a ballsy border patrol cop to bail them out?

      • The shooter was a highly-trained, determined individual, a veritable killing machine of 18 who had owned an AR-15 weapon of war for a full two months. How could we expect 150 LEOs with all that gear and body armor to deal with such a badass?

    • Multiple cops did take action. They immediately entered and engaged the shooter, some getting shot in the process. The shooter then barricaded himself in a room behind a locked door.

      • If that were the case why did the TDPS guy state at the press conference that the cops did their job by cornering the shooter in a classroom. The same classroom where he proceeded to kill 20 people. Is containment rather than confrontation now the new cop speak for not doing the job?

  16. To be blunt and to call a spade a spade. Most people and most police officers lack courage. In the past, Texas Rangers and marshals were hired based on demonstrated courage, not on a civil examination score. Courage means doing deliberately putting yourself in harm’s way and still going on. In today’s world, we wimpy sports that have been gentled down which reflects this lack of courage (today’s athletes are afraid of being hit). In the military, we see a stratification of combat fighters with the REMF’s being more and more in numbers. Of course, courage does not correspond to being PC, and in fact they seem to be inversely related. Know that most police officers were hired on a test score and a racial quota. The only sure thing in an emergency to rely on is YOU!

    • Sadly the days of “muscle” cops whom act immediately, the “mechanics” who “tune-up” perpetrators “Dirty Harry”-style, are gone, now we’re stuck with undersized touchy-feely college educated “males”, patronage appointees (like Scitt Pedeterson in Broward County) and diminutive female EEOC/AA hires, posterchild sexual degenerates (Broward County again) with no reservations about seeking shelter during incidents.

  17. Reports this morning are saying the Border Patrol was backed up by a tac team and someone with a key to the door.

    It took 30 minutes to find the school janitor? You know the guy who usually has a key to every door in the building.

    • Look, if the untrained scumbag was in there an hour and a lot of highly trained cops were on the premises for an extended period of time and were unable to take him out for an hour, then it defies credulity to say that LEOs did a good job, despite the narrative they insist on communicating. Not buying it. Not saying I could do better, but they failed, for whatever reason. There were kids in there, Jesus. You took the job to protect and serve your community. Acta Non Verba. There’s a lot of self-annointed experts on this forum, I’ll leave the debate to them. To me it looks like the priority for LEOs is they all go home at night, they succeeded at that.

    • Meh…taking forever to breach a door which an untrained 18 year cretin EASILY breached makes me fantasize about a conspiracy. And I DON’T buy the story spinned by TTAG’s resident war hero. I guarantee we’ll never know. SEE: LAS VEGAS massacre & Newtown(he!! JFK).

      • What makes you think you breached the door? What makes you think he wasn’t let in?

        • What makes me think you were there??? You just expanded on a conspiracy theory. “Let in”.

        • No, I didn’t. He could have been let in by a teacher, or a child, or the door could have been unlocked until he locked it or it could have been unlocked until the school called a lockdown and automatically locked the doors. There’s no reason to believe he had to break the door down.
          You’re making some huge assumptions based on zero facts at all.

      • And…yup, he walked right into the school and the classroom. He didn’t have to break in at all.

  18. I’d like to say that the one thing that stands out is that the creep who did it was an LGBTQWhatever and there are plenty of pictures of him wearing women’s clothing. And ABC News actually altered his photos to make him look white instead of hispanic.

    For some reason these points are not mentioned in this article.

    And it looks like the police who showed up were all inclined to do what is right.