A letter to the editor from indystar.com:
As with virtually every other state, Indiana requires a permit to carry a hidden, loaded handgun in public. That’s just common sense: to carry a concealed handgun should require a clean criminal record and basic safety training. But there is a bill pending in Congress that would override Indiana’s basic permit requirements and force our state to let anyone with a driver’s license from states like Arkansas, Wyoming and Vermont to carry concealed, loaded guns in public with no permit, no training, and no criminal history check — no questions asked. If Congress passed this law . . .
these non-Hoosiers would have more leeway to carry concealed weapons than Hoosiers themselves.
Congress imposed concealed carry is a dangerous proposal that is bad for Indiana. Sen. Joe Donnelly should oppose it.
As a mom and a veteran, I am alarmed that Congress is considering forcing Indiana to let people carry a loaded gun around my grandchildren and family — the people I care about most – with no permit and no training. As an Indiana resident, I believe that responsible gun ownership goes hand in hand with respect for the Second Amendment and is critical to keeping our communities safe. We don’t need politicians in Washington, D.C. to scrap our concealed carry permitting system and impose their will on Indiana.
Deb Rosing
Member Moms Demand Action, Indiana Chapter
Indianapolis
If Congress passed this law these non-Hoosiers would have more leeway to carry concealed weapons than Hoosiers themselves.
You know, there’s a second way to deal with that inequality from the one you suggest. You COULD get rid of the permit requirement for Hoosiers.
Once again a statist complains that somebody elses chains are not as tight as their own and the solution is not to loosen her own chains but to tighten the other persons chains.
What’s that old saying about people who like to clip others’ wings because they themselves can’t fly…?
Shire-man,
Great metaphor.
Preach it, brother Freeman.
Just because someone is a veteran doesn’t mean their opinion on anything is necessarily qualified. Ditto being a “mom.”
There are plenty of really stupid veterans–and women who’ve given birth–in the world. Nothing magical about either demographic, and we should stop pretending like that’s the case.
Being a “grandmother” means that she never served in any actual combat capacity. Probably a glorified file clerk banking on her “veteran” status to push more BS. Hell, I’d be she never even served.
Exactly. The veterans who deserve my respect seldom throw their status as a veteran around to push for an agenda contrary to the very Constitution they swore to protect. Being a former USAF SP, I helped march a lot of really bad people out of the military after their brief stay in Mannheim Germany. It sucks to know that a few of them are taking advantage of people by throwing around their veteran status. Conclusion: Just because someone is a veteran does not mean they are honorable and/or they left the service under honorable terms. Just because someone is a veteran does not mean they took up arms to defend this country and our values. Just because someone is a veteran does not mean they really meant what they said when they took their oath.
Good old Colman barracks. I was stationed there, and not in the jail. I miss the snitzel. (sp?)sandwich’ s from the little red truck. Sorry to go off topic.
Exactly, just look at John Kerry. Guy testified to Congress that his he and his men were war criminals and now he is secretary of state. Lots of people join the military for lots of reasons, never give anyone a pass just because of prior service.
A veteran and a Mom? What does that prove? When I was in the service the favorite way of a female “veteran” who was tired of being in the service was to get herself pregnant, let the Army pay for her medical care and birthing, then opt for a discharge.
Don’t know if the ladies still have that option, but it kind of puts the Mom & Vet label in perspective.
Ummm excuse me, but Congress shouldn’t be passing a law about national reciprocity. What they should be passing is an acknowledgement that the language of the Second Amendment already allows for the bearing of arms in a manner appropriate to the bearer. And leave it at that. Open, concealed, firearm, sword, dirk, flamethrower! Doesn’t matter because they all fall under the nebulous term of ‘arms.’ We don’t need a law that’s redundant to the Second Amendment.
I agree that is how it should be. However, political realities and the last 100 years of jurisprudence from the Supreme Court requires this bill. Make no mistake this is a step in the right direction for the Second Amendment and those that support it.
Umm….”Mom” already has a problem. According to a link on the IN State Police webpage (http://iot.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2190), Indiana law already honors licenses to carry issued by other states: “Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana. As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32”
The downside is residents of states that do not issue a permit (i.e. “Constitutional Carry” states like Vermont) don’t have a permit to be honored.
Some of the constitutional carry states will give you a permit so you can carry in other states.
In AZ, although we are a Constitutional Carry state, they still have a permit issuance for out of state reciprocity agreements.
I agree. I don’t like the federal government having that kind of power to dictate to the states that they have to do what they say. There is already far too much of that.
Given that Indiana already honors the resident-issued carry permits from every other state, and all 50 states have carry permits, national reciprocity would have exactly ZERO effect on the state of affairs in Indiana.
Imagine that: a Bullying Mommy who has no idea what she’s even talking about.
There are now 4 states that do not require a permit to carry concealed. Alaska, Arizona, Vermont and Wyoming. I was living in Fl. years ago and it was scary to take a pistol from point A to Point B. It seemed that every City, County in the State had different laws on how to transport one. Gun in the trunk, bullets in the car, or if it three steps to load the gun, it was ok. Gun empty, locked in glove compartment and ammo in the trunk. I got my first CCP in Florida. I now live in Ga and now have one from Ga. The problem is, there is no picture on it, so South Carolina will not honor it. Right now if I was to travel from here in Georgia carrying concealed, going to my brothers house in New Mexico, I would have to drive through states that do not honor Ga. concealed. I do believe we need a law to where every State should have to honor another States concealed permit. There are horror story’s out there, just form moving from one State to another.
You forgot Arkansas. And Indiana doesn’t require any training for their carry license, so I don’t know what her issue is with other states that don’t require it.
Someone needs to post that in the comments on Indy Star’s website. Someone already called them out on the “all you need is a drivers license” part. Literally nothing would change for Indiana (or Ohio where I am at) in regards to who can carry in the state if national reciprocity were passed.
Well, Mrs. Rosing.
You and your six other IN members will just have to get over it. When you grow old, your children grow old, your grandchildren grow old, and none are ever harmed by someone doing nothing other than carrying for their own protection, maybe then you will give up on this pointless crusade.
Or you will just grow old and die, that works too.
“Well, Mrs. Rosing.
You and your six other IN members will just have to get over it.”
This is when it’s fun to throw their ‘co-exist’ mindset right back in their face by telling them “This provide an excellent opportunity for you to work on your coping skills.”
A funny thing is, there are no ‘rivers of blood’ flowing in Vermont.
Looking at the permits recognized by Indiana, it looks like the only states not recognized are New York and Vermont, it’s easy to see how much she has at stake
Indiana recognizes every State.
IC 35-47-2-21 (b):
“Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to
the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana.”
My bad, I was going off the app on my phone which is apparently behind the times
As a veteran I’m so tired of people using their veteran status to make them an expert on guns. I’m sorry first and foremost you were a pog who saw your rifle maybe once a year. Second your expertise does not go beyond your issued weapons, unless you have sought some form of outside training, or have been a lifelong firearms enthusiast.
Very first thing I thought was “fing POGe”.
Damnit you beat me to it. Just because you enlisted doesn’t make you a veteran. Service in a combat zone does. Walking past a M4 doesn’t mean a damn thing for creditability.
Being a combat vet and a vet are two different things, yes. And as such, different vets have different expertise.
But, being an Engineer in the Navy, a Pilot in the Air Force, Mechanic in the Army, etc. doesn’t make you any less of a veteran.
A supply puke is just as much a vet as anyone, but I wouldn’t recommend taking firearms advise from them.
Easy there. Do not anger the supply gods. For their minds are mischievous, and their vengeance mighty. Oh givers of mouldy sleeping bags, forgive him.
I know not what I do… I must now sacrifice my woobie, for appeasement.
Actually, it does.
Veteran (n) – Someone who has served in the military/armed forces.
Also, check with the VA on that.
To get VA benefits you need to have served in a combat zone for a certain time period, I believe. Don’t think that the dictionary definition really pertains much to VA benefits. Which seems to be what you are implying.
You believe wrong. @gat
Or, depending on your service and specialty- i.e. Navy pilot, you may have held a pistol or rifle and shot only once in your entire career as a requirement. I was required once in training to fire a pistol. The three or 4 other times I did any shooting in the Navy were just optional.
Yup – didn’t have to even do the boot camp pistol quals, as the range ventilation system had been down for 3 months and would be down for about the same amount of time afterwards, from what I heard later. AND the ship-sponsored qual badge runs always (ALWAYS) seemed to fall on my duty days, so I couldn’t go for those.
But I’ll put up my 6 years USN duty learning how to run reactors and making my aircraft carrier go, as service, even service in a combat zone on multiple occasions. Just because I didn’t hold a rifle does not make me any less a veteran.
Agreed! Even many within the combat arms MOS know very little about firearms.
Exactly, i was a grunt and got to play with a lot of fun stuff. But I’ve always beena firearms guy.
The problem is there Meme is a lie. The law congress is considering only allows reciprocity to THOSE WHO HAVE A STATE ISSUED PERMIT. In other words if your State has non-permit carry, reciprocity is not automatically recognized. To me this makes sense. A carry permit should be recognized like a drivers license.
So, for IN, all it would change is they would recognize all 3 people from NY who managed to get their hands on a CC permit.
The people from VT would still have to suffer, since they do not issue CC permits (they don’t need them, except when they go to other states).
Under current Indiana statute (posted above), Indiana already honors the NY permit of those 3 people.
Wow, I am one of the three? That is crazy, I know the other two!
This too was my first take–the CCW reciprocity bill does not do away with carry permits, it just recognizes any in-state residential permit as valid in all fifty states. [Since DC is not a state, can it still ignore other permits?]
If my MDA math is right, that’s a picture of hundreds of MDA/MAIG supporters.
why is it that women think that their emotions count as evidence and proof that something is wrong? Just because you are offended does NOT mean you are automatically in the right.
I can only hope that one of these days these so called ‘Moms’ have a real come to Jesus moment and stop slinging out this blatant BS. And it’s BS that’s getting people killed.
Every single credible piece of data shows that CCW is a boon to society as a whole. And not just by a little bit, but by a massive stretch. Even the most conservative data from the Federal Government indicates that self defense gun usage outweighs ALL gun deaths by serious margin. I’m talking about 5 or 6 times as may defensive uses than all deaths where a gun is involved. Including suicides.
Until society relegates Mom’s Demand Action to the dust bin of history people will continue to DIE for their cause.
Interesting reading the comments … including someone who kept pushing for national gun registration and asking why it would violate the 2nd amendment.
(Actually I think a 2A-based argument might not be the best path to oppose the idea; I’ll leave that to the good people of Indiana to vote down – if it ever gets on the ballot, that is.)
Worded correctly and implemented through the state adjudent general gun registration is probably constitutional. It could be billed as a logistics survey of weapons held by unorganized militia.
If Congress passed this law . . . we will all die! Shot in our beds by savages from Vermont! Or choked to death by being force-fed Ben & Jerry’s! Oh the humanities! Pass me a Midol!
Methinks this mom is having not PTSD but PMS.
@Ralph, don’t demonize us simply because the far-left-leaning politicians here haven’t taken Constitutional Carry away from us…yet. They’re working on it.
For the record, Island Ice Cream from Grand Isle is way better than Ben & Jerry’s, and it’s not owned by the Dutch.
They’ll get my B&J’s Chunky Monkey when they pry it from my cold dead hands.
We’ve really gotta reign in the veteran stuff. Great, glad to hear it, I’m a CPA. And that doesn’t make either of us more or less wrong.
There are of course exceptions. If you’re a combat vet, I’m going to defer to you on matters involving the battlefield. It’s what you know. The same way I would expect a combat vet to defer to me on matters of depreciation. How many people in the services are actually combat troops? 1/10? There should be two classes of veterans, combat vets and POGs.
Either way, this woman’s veteran status immediately became worthless the second she abandoned her oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. These 2nd amendment apologists that happen to be vets need to learn to count to ten, including the ‘2’.
Somebody else beat me to it, but I seriously doubt this person is a veteran of anything resembling our military. It is easy to claim, and has been for decades. Most likely, if anyone ever suggested she join, she laughed at them.
Interesting that the three states she calls out as sources for these “scary” armed citizens all have lower rates of violent crime than Indiana.
Hmm…
This idea is less dangerous than allowing drivers license reciprocity. I have already told my opinion to my Senators and Reps.
Typical Mom’s demand action BS. If their lips are moving …
BTW Peter, There is no such thing as a good ethnicity, because we all have kids and no control over them.
And just like in Vermont or Wyoming, nothing will happen.
“…to let anyone with a driver’s license from states like Arkansas, Wyoming and Vermont”
OMG! The crime rate in those other places must be absolutely horrific with all those people walking around with loaded handguns and without training or nothing!
Didn’t you know? That’s why the population is lower there; they keep killing each other. It’s so commonplace it doesn’t even get reported int he news. Oh wait, that’s Liberal Urban Enclaves where reality influences no one…
I keep saying it… Let them have their way. Let them have everything exactly as they want it. It’ll go to hell in a week, they’ll riot and kill each other off, rape,murder, starve, and a month later there won’t be any of these losers left to contend with… Let them, in their dying breaths, contemplate all meaning of the phrase “Be careful what you wish for.” It’ll take decades for them to build up a population of dumbasses big enough to worry about.
The rest of us out here in flyover country might not even notice. We don’t have our heads up our asses, and we don’t turn the TV on much anymore… It could easily be over and done with before I even hear about it.
Two things of which you cannot have too large a quantity: ammo and canning jars.
Last I checked, we (IN) has no training requirements either. I’ve purchased and/or sold 5 guns in the last 10 months and walked out the door from my LGS in less than 10 minutes, I didn’t even have/renew my LTCH until 5 months ago. I don’t seem to recall going on any bloody rampages recently although I have fondled my guns quite vigorously on a regular basis.
You’re right. Total BS point from this so-called “veteran”. Reminds me of “One,two three what’r we fighten’ for?” And I don’t respect John “Lurch” Kerry either…I wish I could move a mile away to Indiana.
Country Joe and the Fish! More like Commie Joe.
Fun factoids: Joe McDonald was a Navy veteran. And Joe’s commie parents named Joe after Joe Stalin. No, I’m not making that up.
Correct, Indiana does not require training and recognizes all other states permits. These people have no idea what they are talking about and the Indy Star has no idea what they are reporting.
From MDA: “That’s just common sense: to carry a concealed handgun should require a clean criminal record and basic safety training.” Wait, I thought it was “common sense” that only police should carry guns in public? MDA approves of concealed carry!!! (probably not, but it’s nice to see us force the goal posts back for them…)
Good catch. Clever.
Isn’t she saying that people with a driver’s license from another state can carry concealed in IN? It looks like that is what she said. Can she be that stupid? Oh, yeah … never mind.
If Congress passed this law . . . but they won’t.
We don’t need politicians in Washington, D.C. —– only true statement in the whole screed.
“carry concealed, loaded guns in public with no permit, no training, and no criminal history check — no questions asked.”
So, they do know the definition of a Right; they just hate Rights.
These Mom’s Demand Action degenerates should have their children taken from them immediately.
1) Her statement is a lie, the national reciprocity bill does not do what her straw man claims. Fearmongering through lies.
2) Even if it were, where’s the problem?
3) The last part, which I quoted, proves that they do know what Rights are, they just hate the idea of anyone except themselves having access to any Rights…
Indiana recognizes every other state’s carry license. So national reciprocity changes nothing with regard to carrying in Indiana. Licensed Indianans, however, will be able to carry in those states which do not currently recognize Indiana’s permit; of which there are about twenty states.
Where these ladies are confused, or where they’re lying, is with regard to constitutional carry states. “Constitutional carry” basically means that the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is your license. Such a state doesn’t require a license for its residents to carry within their own state. But what about out-of-staters carrying in such a state? There’s the rub.
A given state might not require a license, but they do at least offer a license, so that its residents may carry in other states that recognize them. After all, another state cannot recognize your license if your state doesn’t even issue one. (Vermont is constitutional carry and doesn’t even offer a license. This presents some challenges for Vermont residents wanting to carry in other states.)
In constitutional carry states that do offer licenses, many carriers go without them. They cost money, are unneeded at home, and the carriers don’t intend to carry out off state, or perhaps not even to travel out of state. So they’re voluntarily like Vermont residents. Well.
A special case exists between Vermont, and Arizona, Alaska, and Oklahoma. Because VT is constitutional carry, but doesn’t issue a license, these three states have agreed to recognize a Vermont state-issued I.D. card or driver’s license as a “carry permit.” THAT’S what these Moms are freaking out about: it’s possible to carry, someplace out of state, on JUST your own out-of-state driver’s license or I.D. card. Where the ignorance or lie comes in, is that NONE of that applies to Indiana. Why not?
1.) The states she mentions in her op ed piece already issue licenses and those are already recognized by IN.
2.) The Congressional bill in question, H.R. 402, specifically states that reciprocity is granted ONLY if the out-of-stater holds BOTH a valid home state I.D. card AND a valid home state license/permit to carry a firearm. The bill still requires a license to carry, so nobody will be carrying legally in Indiana with ONLY a driver’s license.
Pearl clutching ignorance, or fear mongering lie, on her part? Hmm……you be the judge.
I wonder how many Hoosiers are killed each year by out-of-state drivers compared to out-of-state gun owners?
I got an email the other day saying how the reciprocity bill is bad because it would allow the demons to force us all to have New York/Cali-style NEVER-ISSUE polices.
This woman’s letter is yet another distressing instance where Americans do not support liberty. Our firearms rights are right there in the Bill of Rights along with freedom of speech, press and religion. The Founders probably put our firearms rights in a separate amendment to show that it was important. In hindsight, they probably should have put it in the First Amendment to show it being equal to the other rights listed there.
Our Second Amendment rights continue to be treated as the stepchild of the Bill of Rights. We don’t require a permit to speak, or worship, or publish a news story. Why does anyone accept requiring a permit to keep and bear arms?
There are many things that I LOVE about 317: housing is cheap, corn is crunchy, and MDA’s HQ resides deep inside of gun country.
“Only the police and military should have guns.” When people tell me that I laugh. Then follow that by telling them what constitutes basic weapons qual for the Air Force and how in 12 years I only fired 280 rounds. (My Army friend spit out his beer when I said that, and laughed that I knew the exact round count.) That’s right, as a Crew Chief on C-130’s, weapons training was deemed unimportant. Plus the first time I shot an M-16 was the first time I ever shot a gun.
On a side note, shame this lady as a traitor and an oath breaker for advocating against what she swore to defend.
“But there is a bill pending in Congress that would override Indiana’s basic permit requirements and force our state to let anyone with a driver’s license from states like Arkansas, Wyoming and Vermont to carry concealed, loaded guns in public with no permit, no training, and no criminal history check…”
I didn’t realize that a driver’s license doubles as a gun permit. The NRA must really be working overtime.
In an extremely narrow set of circumstances, it actually can. Vermont has constitutional carry, meaning no carry license required, and doesn’t even issue carry licenses. A few other states, like Arizona, are constitutional carry, too, but at least do issue an optional license to their residents, who would need it to carry in another state.
For Vermont residents, since their state is constitutional carry, too, but doesn’t issue a license at all, Arizona recognizes a mere Vermont driver’s license as a carry license, while in Arizona. (Alaska and Oklahoma extend this driver’s license recognition to Vermont residents, too.) If your state requires a carry license, then Arizona will require you to have that carry license if you want to carry in Arizona.
It’s all part of the fun and quirkiness of firearms laws, brought on by so many people’s failure to understand that “shall not be infringed” means “shall not be infringed.”
I would bet this is a MDA koolaid drinking friend or Watts and Bloomburg. I can’t Stans Watts lives in my home state. Can we send her back to Cali?