Under The National Firearm Owners Protection Act, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosive (and Really Big Fires) is forbidden from keeping a gun registry. Alaskan Libertarians are raising the alarm re: an ATF sweep on state gun dealers. Press release:
“Anchorage gun shops are being visited by BATFE agents that are requesting the shops 4473 forms as far back as 2007. They claim they want to make copies of the “book”. This is de facto registration, against the law, and BATFE knows it. Please inform everyone you know about this and notify any gun dealers you know that they don’t have to comply. Contact your congressman and senators and demand a full investigation. Don Young and our Senators have been informed about what is happening. Congressman Young is acutely interested but our senators seem to be indifferent. You can go to their websites to find their email forms.” Make the jump for contact details.
Don Young
View Website
Office of Congressman Don Young
2314 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
Tel: (202)225-5765
Fax: (202)225-0425
Mark Begich
View Website
111 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Tel: (202) 224-3004
Fax: (202) 224-2354
Toll-free line: 1(877)501-6275*
*Only toll-free for callers with an Alaska (907) area code.
Lisa Murkowski
View Website
709 Hart Senate Building
Washington, DC 20510
Tel: (202)224-6665
Fax: (202)224-5301
Disgusting…and then they expect everyone to remain law abiding citizens?
+1
Yup, because from the moment you break the law you aren’t one of us, you are one of the criminals that is making the rest of us gun owners look bad. We are playing by the rules and we are winning this fight, slowly but surely. Irresponsible behavior just sets us back.
Now if the ATF were systematically knocking on doors confiscating weapons, that would be a different conversation. But then we are talking about a breach of the social contract, and then all kinds of other rules break down as well.
Oh, ok.
So, gun registration is breaking the social contract.
Now what are you going to do? Hide in your house and be a Responsible Gun Owner?
I’m calling you out. They are breaking the social contract, which is the line that shouldn’t be crossed, that you’ve set. What are you going to do about it?
This is only suprising in that it took so long to occur.
Well, if you’re going to start doing something you’re not allowed to do, it makes sense to test it first in an area with the fewest number of people to complain about it. If they tried it in Florida first, you’d hear a lot more about it.
A little late to the party guys. The BATFE has been running an “illegal” registration system for decades now.
I realize Wikipedia is one step removed from gun store rumor mill in terms of credibility, but suffice it to say the Feds have had gun registration for quite some time in America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etrace
Brass tacks-This software program pulls data the BATFE takes from state gun registries such as New York ‘s, FFL inspections like the above including 4473 and bound book inspection,4473s from out of business and 20+year FFLs,importation records and documentation, and Law Enforcement submissions from gun serial numbers run and taken in the course of their duties, regardless of whether a crime was committed or not. Even a used gun which is bought in a ‘free state’ face to face sans 4473 could still be in this database in one form or another. Point being, if the Feds want to take our weapons they’ll know enough to figure out which door to knock.
Such is my understanding too. The BATFE has even allegedly driven through gun shows taking pictures of license plates to log into their database. I doubt the FBI CBI check prior to gun purchases gets deleted. It’s still there waiting to be given out to the Storm Troopers for door to door confiscation if the politicians choose too. Beyond that, the USG can always demand that every gun manufacturer, dealer, custom shop, accessory maker, shooting range, turn over their contact list. Visa and MC might have a way using software to cross reference and pull out gun and ammo buys using their cards and to provide that info to the USG.
If the USG wants to grab guns they already have a big list. If the USG does start they will probably do it Nazi style: first one category then a second then a third etc.
I debate with my local gun shop owner all the time whether those 4473 phone calls are stored somewhere deep inside a government computer or actually deleted. I say stored, he says deleted, which is probably the only answer he can/will give.
Your local gun store dealer could respond with a humble “I don’t know”. Since when does government play by the laws when it believes that it can’t get busted? Big government thrives on data and information. Why would it be in the government’s interest to delete those records? It isn’t too difficult to store those records. Who is overseeing and monitoring the USG to delete?
If government did not care about tracking all guns why do they also insist on knowing which gun model you are seeking to buy, and not just be concerned with a person’s CB record check? USG should only be concerned with screening out criminals. They should not care if you are going to buy a single shot bolt action .22 or a .308 semi-auto rifle. They do care because they want to track individuals and the gun models or types they own.
I’ve heard stories like this about ATF “borrowing” 4473’s since sometime in the Clinton era. I don’t know if the stories are true or not.
The stories are true. How else are they supposed to run eTrace whenever a LE agency puts in a request.
“It’s 7:20 PM… do you know where your guns are?”
Mine’s on my hip.
None of your business where my guns are at.
I lost all of mine in a tragic boating accident.
Gosh, that’s what happened to mine, also! Swept deep out into the sea. Luckily, I was unharmed.
Whoa, small world…
This was no boat accident!
Ya know, tornados really do a number on your gunsafe…..hopefully someone in the next state over will be nice enough to tell me its in their yard.
I “sold” mine. All of them.
I used to live in Alaska and moved to the lower 48 about 10 years ago. My, how things have changed. Murkowski and Begich are indifferent about this issue because they’re l i b e r a l. I would have never thought that Alaskans would vote these two into office.
Its kinda strange how these things happen isnt it? they are really trying to put the pinch on patriotic americans… I have noticed in a few places here in AK that they are alienating gun owners and making it out to be a bad thing to own guns because “We dont need them because we are peacful” hahaha…. an armed society is a polite society and I would rather have one and not need it than need one and not have it…
They’re just taking their cue from the higher ups, the same way rotten children take their cues from bad parents. If the traitor in chief can ignore the Constitution, laws, and the will of the people, why should the thugs at the ATF think they have to do any different?
Good points. It’s called “Trickle Down Tyranny”.
I don’t doubt they’re doing this…..but I could use some elaboration/corroboration….
It’s legal, and it’s not particularly unusual. This is more alarmist paranoid gun BS.
So, creating an unofficial official gun registry is legal? Do tell…
It’s not an unofficial gun registry. That’s alarmist nonsense too.
So it’s an official gun registry?
I would say the Feds know who has CCW and Hunting licenses as well. Anti-gun groups publish the State CCW on their web sites as it is public record. I would imagine the State records are duped for the BATF.
I am sure that when a background check to buy a gun is made, that information goes into some sort of permanent record as well.
For my TX CHL, I had to be fingerprinted and have a background check. Always have.
I would also say that the FTF loop hole is not as large as what the Antis would like you to believe.
I was reading on another gun forum that…
The first purchaser bought a gun with all of the form 4473 hoopola.
The gun was sold FTF by the first buyer to a second buyer who was qualified.
The gun was sold FTF by the second buyer to a third buyer who was not qualified.
The gun was given by the unqualified third buyer to a fourth person who was a criminal and used it later in a crime.
The criminal was caught and told where he got the gun. Third buyer identified.
The BATF or Fed LEO called the first buyer who directed the agent to the second buyer, to pin point the second buyer selling to the unqualified third buyer.
It really was not that hard for the BATF and Fed LEOs to trace this gun.
I wrote a letter to Don Young just now protesting this illegal action… Hopefully more people will do the same, enough to have our voice heard in Congress… but it kinda feels as though the voice of us Common Folk fall on deaf ears when it comes to giving opinion and reason to our Governmental Officials.
Whats more is that Gun Control and Laws only effect law abiding citizens. Do they really think some Crack/Meth head or gang banger or cerial killer or rapest is gonna stop carrying or using a gun just because there is another law for it? I dont think so…
Boating accidents, happen……….
Shoulda kicked out Murkowski when you had a chance. She’s DC’s Senator, not Alaska’s.
“Shoulda kicked out Murkowski when you had a chance. She’s DC’s Senator, not Alaska’s.”
Alaskans were still pouting like a teenage boy jilted by his prom date after Sarah Palin resigned. If not, Joe Miller would be Senator now.
Murkowski is a fine Romney Republican. All the older wiser Republicans love her.
Ii’m sick to death of Government Thugs who think that being & acting like Fascists is just fine! As a Retired Combat Soldier (Well I Thought That I was Retired! ( It looks like I thought Wrong!)They need to be worried about the Economy, Jobs, &the Crumbling Infastructuree! Border Insecurity, Drug Dealers, & Meth Labs! Not My Guns & Ammo! From My Cold Dead Hands Mean Anything To You? How about from Your Cold Dead Hands? The Government always has the best Military Grade Select Fire Weapons! If they can Steal & Confiscate Our Guns, then who says WE Can’t Take Theirs! A few Tools, Like Plasma Cutters, Bolt Cutters & Some Diamond Drills to Breech Gun Vaults! Explosives can Help with that! Having Packed those Vaults for Years, I Know that they just love to crate them up in Boxes that don’t fit through the door, & Band up those Boxes onto Pallets! That’s to delay You from just grabbing an armload & running with them. TIME! So You need to plan on how to delay them while Your Retrival Team has Time to work! Good Communications, with some code words is Essential. Breech the Door, or go through the Walls! Then break open the Cases & load out the Weapons, With Laundry Carts, they’ve got wheels on them & will fit through the door & roll onto Your Vehicles! M-16’s 10 & 12 to a Case. Pistols, & Then Stinger Missiles & Explosives! Claymore Mines & Frag Grenades! Mortars & Mortar Rounds are worth Gold! Destroy what You can’t take, or leave it for next time? If they want a War I know how that’s played. Rule #1 Survive. Dead or Wounded You Can’t Keep Up The Fight. Rule#2 There are no other rules of any importance. See Rule #1. Rule #3 Kill as many of them any chance You get with any method that works. Rule #4 Teach others all that You know. Just in case You’re Captured or Killled. Rule #5 Don’t Tell Them Nothing. Not Squat. Rule #6 Fight Dirty. Go after their Families & Kids. They’ll try to get to Yours! So all is fair in a War.
Try to get as Fit as YOU can now! Hoard Food & Medicine. Guns & Ammo of course. Radio’s, Maps, & Pens & Pencils. Stuff for Yourself & stuff You can Barter with. Don’t Advertise that fact. Everything is a Secret & everyone is a Spy! It’s O.K. to be paranoid. They really are out to get You! Don’t Ever Surrender. The Worst Day of Freedom is still better than the best day of Captivity!
I Served & Fought for Freedom, not some Dictatorship. Now they think they can march in & take it for Free. Without a Fight. How many of their own Soldiers won’t go alon with their plans, Hundreds or Thousands? Don’t unerestimate talking to those Soldiers & asking them Questions that might start them to thinking about the people their working for & the things their asking them to do? They might decide to resist those orders at every chance they get! Avoid fighting with each other, remember who the real enemy is! Stick together. Fight smarter not harder.
The most radical experiment in history is the Constitution of the United States of America. Throughout history, people had accepted the commonly held notion that government’s powers over the citizenry were supreme. In 1787, however, for the first time ever, the American people announced to the world that the liberties of the people were supreme and that the powers of government were limited. Governments throughout the world were startled, stunned, and appalled at such an audacious suggestion… And now that same American government seeks to abolish our founding father’s hopes and dreams of a free world, one liberty at a time.
You know what, we will get control of these shit asses in gub’ment, we the people have a right to be left alone, do you libs got it???