What To Do If Police Show Up At Your Door With A Red Flag Confiscation Order

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The following is the response to questions from an armed defense legal representation organization regarding extreme risk protection orders (ERPO), gun violence restraining order (GVRO) or so-called red flag laws. It was written by Attorney Ralph D. Long, Sr., a member of the Alabama State Bar Association.

Mr. Long was a small town municipal prosecutor and retired police lieutenant with 26 years of experience in patrol and investigations. His police service includes extensive experience as a police firearms trainer. He gives us permission to reprint his advice with the following caveat.

He, in NO WAY, advocates or encourages any citizen to break the law or to disobey/ignore a judge’s order. He insists that the time and place to resist an ERPO is before the legislature passes a “red flag” law. Though Mr. Long states that the principle of Constitutional and common law due process requires a hearing before a person’s property is seized by the government, no one should use violence to resist peace officers who are sent to their home with a court order.

After ERPOs becomes law, and until they are overturned by the state or U.S. Supreme Court, an ERPO must only be contested in court after the fact. Those subjected to an ERPO should conduct themselves with restraint so as to aid their attorney’s efforts to restore the seized property and/or right to bear arms. Resisting officers executing a court order only gives credence to the person who has sworn before the judge that the subject is a danger to himself or others.

Mr. Long further encourages citizens to research and enroll in an armed citizen legal defense insurance program that offers civil and criminal defense representation. These organizations include Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, US Law Shield, US Concealed Carry Association and others. Some of these policies may provide representation for red flag seizures in the states that have such laws. You should make sure you know what kind of representation each organization provides and pick the coverage that bests suits your situation.

Red flag law extreme risk protection order

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By Ralph D. Long, Esq.

If you have never had an adversarial former spouse, angry child, or disillusioned business partner, you are fortunate, because any of these or your doctor can file a motion for an extreme risk protective order in at least 14 states.

If you’ve crossed swords with a police officer who wants to get even with you for embarrassing him in court or for filing a complaint against him, you should be worried about red flag laws going into effect in your state.

That being said, as a municipal prosecutor and retired police lieutenant, I will offer my professional opinion for those who have had their constitutional right to due process limited by legislative action.

1. What are a citizen’s options when the police knock on the door with a warrant and want to confiscate the citizen’s guns?

You have NO Options. Be polite and cooperative; you are basically considered a “dangerous armed adversary.” Call your attorney as soon as you can, not to stop the seizure, but to start the appeal process to get your property back.

Resistance could get you arrested or worse – shot. You can’t ask Mr. Gary Willis of Ferndale, MD, anymore. He was shot to death by Anne Arundel County Police at 5:17 A.M. on Nov. 7, 2018, when an extreme risk protective order was served on him. Police said he answered the door with a gun in his hand and was combative. How many of us wouldn’t arm ourselves if someone came banging on the door before daylight?

All preparations should be made prior to the police showing up at your house. All firearms should be inventoried and photographed prior to the arrival of police–in other words do it NOW. They will not give you time to do that when they come for your firearms, though they probably will give you some kind of receipt for what they take. It’s better to have your own inventory taken when your blood pressure isn’t 195/110.

I’m not advising anyone to violate a judge’s order, but some may want to consider having another firearm stored in a fireproof gun safe at a trusted friend’s or relative’s house so that he will have some means of protecting himself if a dangerous situation arises before the firearms are returned.

Some orders may allow a hearing within a week or 10 days. But they can remain in effect for a year (check your state’s law) if the judge is anti-Second Amendment and delays a hearing to determine whether there is risk to yourself or others. The protective order will likely go to the FBI National Instant Criminal Background Check System. If the order doesn’t prevent you from buying another gun, the NICS notification will.

2. Assuming the guns are securely locked in a gun safe, do you advise the citizen to comply and open the safe?

YES. The safe may be taken (unlikely because police officers are government employees and, by their nature don’t like the physical work involved in moving the whole safe) or opened by force, to include destruction of the locking mechanism. The red flag court order gives them that authority.

3. What consequences do you anticipate would result from refusing to open a safe?

It depends on how your state’s law is worded but expect arrest for P.O.P. (pissing off the police). It may be termed as “interfering with officers in the course of/performance of their duties,” harassment, assault, and/or violating an extreme risk protective order (remember an order was signed by a judge who conducted a hearing without you present), and they will pile on by adding “resisting arrest.” Try getting a concealed carry permit after conviction for a couple of those charges.

 

This article originally appeared elsewhere and is reprinted here with permission. 

 

comments

  1. avatar Texheim says:

    Better to fight anther day than fight the people that can legally kill you.

    1. avatar DJ says:

      They’ll eventually kill you after you’re disarmed anyway.

    2. avatar GridSquare says:

      Life is not so dear, and peace so sweet, that it aught to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery. This is appeasement. And every lesson in history tells us the greater risk lies in appeasement. We are fast approaching this time now in American history where we’ll be asked the final question and be given an ultimatum. The question is will you be the one to say “peace at any price,” or “better red then dead,”? Or will you say there is a price we will not pay and there is point beyond which they must not advance. Winston Churchill said “when great forces are on the move around the world we learn we’re spirits, not animals.” He also said “there’s something going on in time and space and beyond time and space, which wether we like it or not, spells duty.” We must preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on earth, or we’ll sentence them to take the last step into a thousand years of darkness.

      1. avatar David Bradford says:

        Losing a single battle does not end the war. If they are at your door with an ERPO order, THAT battle is already lost. Surrendering your life in a blaze of glory is selfish and only diminishes our rank of Patriots willing to fight. Strategic retreat > suicide.

        1. avatar GridSquare says:

          I think you’re right, to an extent, but I think these red flag laws show us just how close we are to the big “mr and mrs America, turn em all in” event we’ve been fearing for decades. Eventually, and sooner then probably many here think, we’re ALL, going to be told to hand in all semiautos. At that point we have a decision to make. If we roll over on that, it’s over. They win. If we don’t, we have to win. Because there’s much more at stake here and in this fight then simply which guns the state is permitting you to own at that time.

          The big problem with these red flag laws is they seem to normalizing confiscation. Condition the public, even most gun owners, that confiscation is the new norm.

        2. avatar David Bradford says:

          Here is my personal opinion, take it for whatever you think it’s worth.

          Red Flag laws in their current form are clearly unconstitutional, violating the 2nd (right to bear arms), 4th (search and seizure), 5th and 14th (due process), and 6th (right to counsel) amendments. Any court issuing the order is acting in direct violation of the accused individual’s constitutional rights. We then have the moral right to disobey any and all rulings given by the said court as they have willfully surrendered their moral authority by violating their oath to defend and uphold The Constitution Of The United States of America. If I am served with a red flag order I will not resist, but comply under protest. I will not, however, feel morally obligated to abide by any ruling against me restricting my possession of firearms. I will exercise my right to not incriminate my self and will neither confirm nor deny the existence of any undiscovered firearms. They will have no justification to hold me as I will have not broken any laws.

        3. avatar John in Ohio says:

          “The big problem with these red flag laws is they seem to normalizing confiscation. Condition the public, even most gun owners, that confiscation is the new norm.”

          Bingo.

        4. avatar PJO says:

          If a Red Flag Warrant is not an unequivocal reason to shut up and lawyer up nothing is. Here in VA we have by the bare skin of our teeth avoided becoming the 15th state to enact extra due process seizure. So Ralph Northam will not be dancing into your home in black face to seize your firearms this year…next year is still to be determined…vote and be aware. It will be too late when every Tom, Dick, and Harry with a grudge can invite a judge to seize your firearms without due process. Next will be attempts to imprison uncooperative targets of such extra Constitutional actions.

      2. avatar Steven Peter Yevchak, Sr. says:

        Probably the most powerful – and pertinent – quote by Churchill I’ve ever read:
        https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/106588-if-you-will-not-fight-for-right-when-you-can
        “If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed;
        if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may
        come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”
        Amen

        1. avatar Thomas Hartshorn says:

          You may fight all day long with words but your elected representatives ARE NOT LISTENING! They have already passed in 14 states and will do as they damn please. It is going to take a MAJOR STATEMENT !!! to get these peoples attention and to show them who works for who.The only government I have observed that is being patriotic are a handful of great Sherrifs in Colorado and Washington state when they stated they will NOT take citizens guns and will not violate their OATH ! GOD BLESS THOSE SHERRIFS, but ask the LEO in your states and see what they say !!!!

  2. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

    “I’m not advising anyone to violate a judge’s order, but some may want to consider having another firearm stored in a fireproof gun safe at a trusted friend’s or relative’s house so that he will have some means of protecting himself if a dangerous situation arises before the firearms are returned.”

    ‘Common-sense’ I can get behind. And not just for a seizure order, but as ‘insurance’ against a break-in and theft…

    1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

      I’m thinking if your friend knowingly keeps a weapon for you and then gives it back after you’ve been served with one of these unconstitutional orders he could find himself in a whole lot of trouble himself. Probably find himself on the wrong end of a felony charge. If you’re going to go that route you’d best protect your friend by LENDING him a firearm then without letting him know about the morning SWAT raid ask if you could have it back. I think a safer bet is to keep a couple spare weapons in some very hard to find locations around your house. Then late at night when the cops are gone go ahead and retrieve them.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        Storage unit solves the problem of involving others. A closet sized unti with a small safe handles it nicely and fairly cheaply.

        Or so I’ve been told.

        1. avatar OBOB says:

          don’t forget to hide the pencils…lots and lots of pencils!

      2. avatar John in Ohio says:

        Years ago, it was not uncommon for us friends to loan to each other at least one long gun and perhaps a handgun; with ammunition, magazines, etc. They were in cases, go bags, or boxes which the person never touched or opened. It wasn’t unheard of that the property was stored in a location that the owner of the firearms had access to without outside assistance. Barns, workshops, sheds, storage facilities, and other such places were utilized. Many of my friends knew where the keys to the barns, workshop, and vehicles were kept on our farm so they could access these places and use the vehicles in a time of great need or urgency.

        Perhaps it’s past time for some to think about these contingency plans.

        1. avatar mrvco says:

          I suppose it varies by state, but is the seizure based solely on guns the person filing the order reports? Or do the cops get to toss your entire house and any other properties that you may own or rent or locked in a vehicle ? Are you legally required to disclose the locations of all guns?

        2. avatar David Bradford says:

          If you are lucky, they will bring in a dog to sniff out your guns and ammo. But rest assured, they will not take your word that they have found them all and will not stop looking until they feel they have every firearm on the property. You MAY earn some brownie points with the judge for disclosing every gun they found, but I would not count on that to help much. They are more than likely going to turn your house upside down and inside out regardless of your cooperation. My personal advice is to state that you do not believe this is legal but that you will comply under protest, that you will not resist in anyway and not interfere with the search. After that, tell them you will not answer any question until you have spoken to your attorney and SHUT THE F’ UP!

        3. avatar John in Ohio says:

          Pretty much what David Bradford stated.

          Think it through as it makes sense in the minds of tyrants. They are there to make sure you will no longer be armed as someone claims you might be a danger. They aren’t knowingly leaving any guns.

  3. avatar Aaron Walker says:

    Sounds ridiculous to me…I bet our forefathers said the same thing to the red coats…SO EVERY RED BLOOD AMERICAN WOULD BE SOME HOW SUBJECT TO SECRET KANGAROO ROOM ANTICS BY THE STAR CHAMBER..Are these armed Paramilitary commandos going to kick in every US citizens door under force of arms…Attack with deadly force any US citizen who fails to comply with “secret court warrants”! Outrageous…Obviously this BS is going to happen under arbitrary and capricious circumstances…

    1. avatar Denton says:

      I’m sure our forefathers did indeed say the same thing when redcoats invaded their homes, etc. Then they picked up their hidden firearms from the woods, grouped up after the fact, and confronted the red coats from better positions. They lived to fight another day and so should anyone confronted with a rad flag warrant.

      1. avatar B.D. says:

        A better position in my opinion is right in front of the police stations that would commit this tyranny. Don’t allow them to go to work committing treason and the problem is solved. Any officer who would seize someones guns is a tyrant, and has already chosen a side. Maybe it’s time to band together before the fact, instead of waiting until it happens. That never happens though… they push and push until finally EVERYONE collectively breaks and cannot survive without fighting for their family. Sadly, we are by nature, complacent and unorganized.

        1. avatar John in Ohio says:

          I cannot disagree with you.

  4. avatar binder says:

    I really wonder of you need to cooperate. I would never recommend resisting, but if they ask you anything my lauma opinion would be just state that you want a lawyer present and that you do not concent to any searching . Telling them where the firearms are can be construed as a consent to search and anything they find can jack you up. If TAG really wants to give legal advice, I would be damn careful.

    1. I’m NOT opening my door for anyone…Thank You…Im an a US citizen with no wants or warrants…I have NO criminal record, and will not comply with unconstitutional orders to invade my home! My home is my castle! We’ve already been through this BS in world history!

      1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

        I don’t think SWAT teams usually wait for you to open your door.

    2. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

      I’m thinking I’d a) let them in if they haven’t already broken my door in, b) comply, c) the only thing that’s coming out of my mouth is ‘I have nothing to say without a lawyer present’ and d) see if they’re willing to spend 8 hours going through my wife’s shoe boxes to find that spare weapon or crawl around in my crawlspace to find the other one, etc.

      1. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

        The safest thing to say if they ask if you have any other weapons anywhere else is to answer as Hillary did years back – “I can’t recall”…

      2. I’m NOT opening my door! Nor I am I going to be serving tea and crumpets to Red Coats! Oh, and I DON’T own any firearms anyhow! But the pro2a NEEDS US citizens who DON’T to help stand and fight! All my dead relatives were Vets going all the way back to WW1…I’m NOT going to let Authoritarians piss on their grave after they fought for everyones freedom! Go ahead and surrender! I would how many here can afford “justice” in our corrupt court system. Not unless your name is Smollets, were friends with people who were in the Obama regime and the DNC!

        1. avatar Mark N. says:

          Typically, red flag orders are issued on the petition of a “close family relative” who resides under the same roof–and those relatives already know about your hidden weapons. Yes, the police can obtain them also, but the police can just detain you for a mental health evaluation without the rigamarole of applying to the court for a seizure order, followed by a court hearing a week or two later at which the officers will need to appear and testify.

        2. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

          “…and those relatives already know about your hidden weapons.”

          The only way ‘Red Flag’ confiscations can be effective is if the Statists in your state have mandatory gun registration, so they can be certain they have all you own…

        3. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          Because nobody could ever get their hands on an unregistered gun once a state institutes a gun registry! (sarc/off)

    3. avatar Porkchop says:

      If they have a “red flag” order to seize the firearms, they already have the authority to search for them. Unless you want your entire dwelling turned upside down, you might as well let them know where the firearms are stored. Depending on the officers involved, I suppose that could happen anyway, but why give them an excuse?

      Another thing to consider is that your actions and attitude during the seizure might be used as evidence during the hearing that will ultimately take place. If you go off on a rant about “that bitch” or otherwise lose your temper, you just give the petitioner more evidence to put before the judge to support the argument that you are too dangerous and unstable to have a firearm.

      If I were to represent a client (yes, I’m a lawyer) in a proceeding following such a seizure, my ideal witness would be a cop who testified that he served the order on my client, that my client was calm, polite, and cooperative at all times, and that the only request that he made was that he be allowed to call his lawyer. I would also like to hear him say that the client seemed surprised, but made no effort to find out the source of the information that led to the order. That’s my job. Asking, “Who did this to me?” or “Did Mary put you up to this?” just feeds the narrative that you have a beef with Mary, and maybe, just maybe, Mary might be right to fear you. In addition, you have just given the officer an excuse to ask, “So what’s the problem with Mary?” He can write your answer in his report, and it is admissible in evidence; but if you say something different in court, that original answer may come back to bite you. In short, when you are in a deep hole, stop digging. Just shut up, do what the officer says, and let us sort it out in court. You may lose, but at least you will not have made it easier for the other side to prove its case.

      1. avatar Mark N. says:

        Most states follow a pattern similar to California, an early adopter, which requires the service of all affidavits in support of the order and a notice of hearing with the seizure order.

      2. avatar Bad Hat Harry says:

        Basicly it would like what Negan told Rick, you just thanked me for slipping my dick down your throat!

        Furthermore, police officers can only legally testify against defendants, they are not legally allowed to testify for their behalf. Basically in court, a cop can only help convict a person, and cannot help prove innocence, which is why it is best to STFU around them.

        1. avatar Porkchop says:

          First of all, this would not be a criminal proceeding, so there is no conviction or acquittal involved. Second, I most certainly could subpoena a police officer to testify about my client’s sterling conduct during the confiscation of his firearms. His calm behavior under the stress of a police raid is certainly relevant to the question of his potential to be a danger to himself or others due to some alleged inability to control himself.

        2. avatar Bad Hat Harry says:

          Again, being polite to and even aiding against one’s will the armed thugs who are invading one’s home and stealing expensive property, often at a complete surprise late at night is an awlful lot to ask for. It is basically just like thd Negan quote from Walking Dead I posted above. However, that is probably a feature for the gun grabbers, not a design flaw. Also I would not trust an officer in court as he or she may have a very different interpretation of your client’s behavior and in general judges are bound to automaticly assume an officer never lies.

          There have been many times where after losing a case and bing ordered to return firearms to their owners, many departments either still refuse and most be fought in court again, misplace the firearms they took, or damage them beyond repair. Even if one proves one is stable enough to have firearms rights restored and has the firearms returned, it will still be an emotional scar and loss of safety in one’s home as one may never know when agents could be sent again at any time for nearly any reason. Not to mention the costs of restoring rights and properity that were illegitimately taken away.

      3. avatar Binder says:

        “If they have a “red flag” order to seize the firearms, they already have the authority to search for them. Unless you want your entire dwelling turned upside down, you might as well let them know where the firearms are stored. Depending on the officers involved, I suppose that could happen anyway, but why give them an excuse?”

        AGAIN, if you consent to the search ANYTHING they find can be used against you. The point is NOT to keep your house from being turned upside down, but to keep you out of jail. If the order was taken out by someone who want to screw you over, they likely has access to you dwelling and can have planted anything there.

        If the cops really have a order to seize anything you should have the ability to hand over the firearms WITHOUT a search. So do you have any advice on accomplishing that without being shot?

      4. avatar Aaron Walker says:

        So your going to represent some poor random sod…? You going to provide “services” under contingency? How much is “justice ” going to cost me or someone else? I DON’T have money to spare to prove my innocents or fight for my property that was unconstitutional taken from me ,or how about other citizens?!? You going to help repair my reputation, or that of others!?! How about these fellow citizens having employer’s take action AGAINST them as well…Are you going to sue the pants off the officers, the police department, the chief of police, the township, the city, all those responsible…?! Or are THEY going be immune to “so called legal proceedings?!” What true justice can someone except to receive in places like NY, MD CA., MD., CT., MA., etc…!? What about Police Officer’s themselves, are THEY immune to “RED FLAG LAWS” in most states? What if I’m threatened with deadly force by a police officer in a traffic stop…Can it have THEM “Red FLAGGED”?!?! Seeing that evwn the ACLU has a problem with this as other legal groups…I await satisfaction in large scale higher court challenges! If everything is waved aside…Then perhaps another Civil War is Destiny to happen…For I would definitely become a historian regarding the next set of events and how to prevent them from ever occurring again!

        1. avatar Chiefton says:

          You make several very good points. Would the officers who took the complaint and failed to sufficiently investigate the complaint by interviewing you (the alleged danger) be culpable for failing to ensure the complaint is valid and not retribution? I am a retired police officer and fully realize that there are always 2 sides to the story and the truth usually lies somewhere in between those 2 stories. If there are no ramifications to failing to investigate properly or ramifications against the accuser who is not providing accurate information than how legitimate is that law?

        2. avatar Thomas Hartshorn says:

          If you are a retired police then you should know that these so called laws are not only wrong but ILLEGAL ! Any law passed that is in direct conflict with the Constitution of the United States of America is ILLEGAL!!!
          THESE illegal laws completely take away your Due Process, Cometely, your 2nd Amendment is raped, your home is illegally searched and guns seized, you dont get to face your accuser. How many rights have to be trampled for people to get the point?

      5. avatar Rants-N-Raves says:

        Surveillance Equipment documenting the ‘Actions of the Police’ from the point of entry to the property, point of notification (given reason) for their presence/actions, point of entry to the home/residence/building and the ‘Actions of Law Enforcement’ as they conduct their search and seizure of the property requested/listed on the – Red Flag Court Order while within your home/property. This also serves as proof of your reactions, cooperation and etc. He said, she said will not cut it. A day in court can prove very lucrative for the homeowner/gun owner whose constitutional rights are violated – they count on US not being properly prepared to ‘Fight Back Legally’ and not being willing to ban together in Red Flag States to file class action lawsuits and civil/legal court actions/cases against these powers that be…We have to Stand our Ground before these laws are passed and most importantly STAND OUR GROUND -WITHIN THE LEGAL SYSTEM – AFTER these Unconstitutional Laws are passed!!

        1. avatar HoundDogDave says:

          It may be helpful to have a duplicate backup (WiFi) video recording device for your cameras in case they decide to confiscate or damage your computer with the evidence on it and accidentally(yeah, right?) lose or destroy it. It’s easy enough to hide it in an old broken printer or a CRT monitor on a shelf( they tend to not take peripherals not attached to the computer).

        2. avatar Thomas Hartshorn says:

          It’s too late in 14 states as already passed and forced on law abiding citizens. And it’s about to be passed Nationwide if Senators Lindsey Graham(SC) and Marco Rubio( Fl) have their way.
          Dont kid yourself both the dumbocraps and worthless Republicans are working together to force this on us and after some of the things I have heard Pres Trump say, I’m suspicious he does too!!!!

    4. avatar arc says:

      The shit in this article comes from a retired cop as its source and almost all of it says roll over and let goons walk over you.

      1. avatar Mark N. says:

        It is superior to being dead, or under arrest and sitting in a mental health facility cooling your heals if you survived the encounter. And if that mental health hold turns into an involuntary commitment, then you lose your guns for life. Remember, ALL of these orders are followed by a formal court hearing where the person seeking the order has the burden of proving that you are a threat to yourself (or others). (The burden of proof varies from state to state. In California, it is “clear and convincing evidence.”)

      2. avatar GS650G says:

        They will shoot you. You realize that?

        1. avatar SW_Corsair says:

          “You can always take one with you.” I’ll take “dead and free” over being “an unarmed government slave.” Red Flag Laws cross the line for many of us. If “they” scale this B.S. plan up, things will get messy in a hurry. This is so Unconstitutional I don’t know where to start and no, I won’t shed any tears for any government actors killed while breaking down citizen’s doors without due process. Seriously, something like this could start CW2 in short order. Think people!

        2. avatar David Bradford says:

          Oh, that’s really smart, go ahead and commit suicide by shooting a cop. If as you say “If ‘they’ scale this B.S. plan up, things will get messy in a hurry.” wouldn’t it be prudent to stay alive and fight in the war rather than surrender your life over a hill you have lost to the enemy already?

        3. avatar Bad Hat Harry says:

          How are you going to fight if they already took your and everyone elses’ guns? If things do get real bad, they might just kill you anyway even when you do comply.

        4. avatar David Bradford says:

          “How are you going to fight if they already took your… guns?”

          Easy, don’t die and let them take the guns they can find, just make sure they don’t find them ALL. The law says you are not allowed to lie to the government but, it also says you don’t have to tell them the truth either. When they ask you where the guns are, respectfully tell them you choose to remain silent. When they are at your door with overwhelming forces is not the time to fight. Accepting a loss it not the same as accepting defeat. There will be more battles to be fought. Be prepared ahead of time to take the possible loss of some of your defenses, but stay alive to fight a battle you can win.

        5. avatar B.D. says:

          Did you just say “easy”? stfu keyboard commando. They will track you quicker than the SS did to round up the jews.

      3. avatar Jamrs M. says:

        If you feel that the government or its agents are acting in violation of your rights, it is not the ideal time to address that violation when said armed agents are at your front door, demanding entry. Choose your battles more wisely than that.

      4. avatar techs says:

        arc sez: “The shit in this article […] says roll over and let goons walk over you.”

        Actually, the article mostly says “live to fight another day.” If you didn’t prevail in the lawful fight to prevent these laws or assure their constitutionality, then work to assure the lawful fight is successful in their challenge to change or repeal.

        Or you can attempt suicide by cop. Your choice, but I think that path just lumps you in with the crazies and criminals without furthering the cause in any way.

    5. avatar TheBruteSquad says:

      Suppose you have several safes around the house some more easily accessible and visible than others. Are the police going to simply go through your readily visible safe or are they going to ransack your home searching for everything?

      1. avatar Lee the Fudd. says:

        Good idea! And perhaps undocumented with the help of Polymer80, and 80%Arms stored in an undetectable safe space a la John Wick and Frank Moses.

        1. avatar TheBruteSquad says:

          Or live in a state where cash sales are legal

  5. avatar Aaron Walker says:

    Proposed 25 September 1789
    Ratified 15 December 1791

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    Bill of Rights

  6. avatar Aaron Walker says:

    Proposed 25 September 1789
    Ratified 15 December 1791

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    2nd Amendment
    Bill of Rights
    English history and common law

  7. Proposed 25 September 1789
    Ratified 15 December 1791

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Bill of Rights
    Search and Seizure

  8. Proposed 25 September 1789
    Ratified 15 December 1791

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

    Bill of Rights
    Trials and Takings

  9. Proposed 25 September 1789
    Ratified 15 December 1791

    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

    Bill of Rights
    Speedy Trial

    1. avatar David Bradford says:

      The Constitution states only one command twice. The Fifth Amendment says to the federal government that no one shall be “deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.” The Fourteenth Amendment, ratified in 1868, uses the same eleven words, called the Due Process Clause, to describe a legal obligation of all states.

      While there is no definitive list of the “required procedures” that due process requires, Judge Henry Friendly generated a list that remains highly influential, as to both content and relative priority:

      An unbiased tribunal.
      Notice of the proposed action and the grounds asserted for it.
      Opportunity to present reasons why the proposed action should not be taken.
      The right to present evidence, including the right to call witnesses.
      The right to know opposing evidence.
      The right to cross-examine adverse witnesses.
      A decision based exclusively on the evidence presented.
      Opportunity to be represented by counsel.
      Requirement that the tribunal prepare a record of the evidence presented.
      Requirement that the tribunal prepare written findings of fact and reasons for its decision.
      This is not a list of procedures which are required to prove due process, but rather a list of the kinds of procedures that might be claimed in a “due process” argument, roughly in order of their perceived importance.

      https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/due_process

      Clearly, gun confiscation under an ERPO or GVRO is unconstitutional and therefore a violation of rights and illegal.

      1. avatar Mark N. says:

        No court has so held, and in function and effect, they are no different than a domestic violence or harassment temporary restraining order, which also allow for seizure of firearms pending hearing on the merits, and which have universally been held to comply with due process requisites. Although a TEMPORARY order will issue on affidavits and without a hearing, all of the ERPO laws require a formal court hearing after issuance and service of the order at which the subject of the order has the right to be represented by counsel, to cross-examine witnesses, and to introduce evidence (e.g. your own mental health expert).

        1. Again, What DOESN’T everyone understand…Due Process Does NOT come after the fact!!!! Everyone is “innocent till proven guilty in a court of Law !!!

        2. avatar David Bradford says:

          Due process must be served before any action is taken. If it is not, anything that follows is NOT due process. If you take my guns before I have the opportunity to face my accuser and defend myself with evidence refuting their claims, my constitutional right to due process has been violated. You and whoever told you to take my guns are the ones committing a crime, not me.

  10. avatar Redmama says:

    Any cop that follows orders to go and seize law abiding people’s guns deserves to fall in a hail of bullets.

    1. avatar Salty Bear says:

      Damn straight. The best defense against these ERPO laws would be sending a clear signal to cops everywhere that gun confiscators are likely to die trying.

      1. avatar Pistol Pete says:

        Amen to that. Clear messages need to be sent that if a cop goes on one of these raids there’s a good chance he doesn’t make it back home with the same number of holes. I won’t shed a tear either. They should uphold the Constitution per their oath. When you get the door kickers under control, their bosses in government have nothing.

        1. avatar Thomas Hartshorn says:

          It is ashamed it has come to this state of affairs, but we are Americans. We are symbols of Freedom. Freedom cannot stand without the gun. It is part of our heritage. For us to cave at the whining of this generation would be to disgrace EVERY AMERICAN that ever died defending our Flag and our beloved Constitution !!!!!
          To try and avoid the inevitable each person reading this should be on the telephone to your Congressmen, Senators, the President, and the Supreme Court and relate to them that WE THE PEOPLE are not taking this tyranny and treason for that is exactly what Red Flag Laws represent. They rape your 1st 2nd, 4th, 14th, and GOD knows how many other Constitutional Rights! They TAKE your right to say what you feel, they steal your DUE PROCESS, They ILLEGALLY search & seize your guns, and YOU are forbidden to face your low down accuser. Damn, just go ahead and pl ace me in chains now.
          Speak now or forever hold your tongue !

    2. avatar Thomas Hartshorn says:

      Bravo Red Mama, well said. It will be their price for treason and treachery !

  11. avatar FedUp says:

    Maryland Man did not understand the rules of engagement for armed robbery.

    An armed robber is someone who has made the decision that he’s OK with killing you to take what you own from you. They’re not usually in it to kill you, but they intend to rob you or your dead body, it doesn’t matter a whole lot to them which. You don’t get to merely hold on to your property and say “no” when they reach for it, unless you’re OK with the armed robbers murdering you on your own doorstep.

  12. avatar Jay in Florida says:

    Depends on what one has to loose, besides ones life. Me Id be dumb enough to fight them I think. Take at the least one with me. Or 3 hots and a cot as they say. It would all depend on how angry I was at the time I guess. Realistically I would never be in that situation anyway.

    1. avatar B.D. says:

      Never say never.

      People are scared. Gun owners are scared. We are not organized. They will kill one here and there, and we will kill the same. Nobody will win, and the tyranny will continue until eventually the collapse forces society as we know it to either fight to survive, or die. Sad day when you have to leave your safety net and family to fight for your grandchildrens grandchilren. BTW, people are also selfish, and only care about the now. Especially in today’s society.

  13. avatar kahlil says:

    This seems to be a loophole that felons and those barred from guns in other fashion seem to take – is there anything preventing a person tagged under a red flag order from getting black powder, crossbows, airguns, or other “non-gun” weapons? If you’re found in possession of a gun – blackpowder or one that was stashed at a friends house – what would happen then? Seems like there are loopholes but what is the calculated risk in a person exploiting them?

    1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

      Black powder weapons are not considered firearms by the federal government but you’re state might have a different opinion.

      1. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

        …and who wants to EDC a BP pistol, anyways? Especially in a humid environment?

        1. avatar kahlil says:

          agree, but there are people that will because they can’t carry or purchase gun in any other way.

    2. avatar Thomas Hartshorn says:

      In England their guns were forbidden long ago. Lately they evidently have experienced alot of knife assaults as I recently read where some twit there wants to ban knives. My point is sooner or later they will come for your black powder guns, knives, crossbows, etc.
      Now is the time to draw the line in the sand!

  14. avatar David Bradford says:

    Sure officer, come on in. Let me open my safe for you. You are free to look for and take any firearms you may find. However, I would like at this time to exercise my 5th amendment right to remain silent and will answer no questions regarding the location of any alleged weapon or weapons I may own. I would like to speak with my attorney now.

    1. avatar Ragnarredbeard says:

      “and will answer no questions regarding the location of any alleged weapon or weapons I may own”

      Leave this part out. It begs questions and piques curiosity.

      Just say “I am invoking my rights under the 5th amendment” and then STFU.

      1. avatar David Bradford says:

        TRUE

    2. avatar anonymous says:

      No you have to rub it in more.

      No guns here. They are in safe storage… from you guys. Yeah, keep searching, you won’t find anything. You wasted your time, you wasted my time. You are wasting our tax dollars, You are wasting the life that your parents bestowed upon you. Waste of everything here. BWT, It’s completely within my abilities to manufacture a firearm right in my garage. Feel free to look there too. You’ll find none there. You’re going to find nothing – at all. But rest assured, fellas, if I wanted a full auto sub machine gun, there is some chain length fence poles right over there that will work perfect, and there is FA nothing you can do about it, you thieving nasty tyrants. Now you can go tell the Judge to FO, go tell the person who told you to red flag me to FO, and then go FO yourself. Now when you are done, let yourself out, and have a great day playing gulag special police.

      1. avatar David Bradford says:

        Remember this phrase “Anything you say can and WILL be held against you in a court of law.” The cops can and will twist anything you say to mean what they want it to mean. My advice is, STFU ASAP or pay the price.

        1. avatar Anonymous says:

          That’s fine – the risk is worth it. In the end, they’ll have to produce some “evidence” and they’ll have none.

        2. avatar Thomas Hartshorn says:

          You will not get Due Process. You may get a hearing Bout 10 days to 2 weeks after they take your guns and that will be to try and convi ce the kangaroo judge if you’re sane enough to own guns but you wont be able to defend yourself from the entire illegal crap you’re in. Not only that but do you have several thousand dollars for a lawyer. Most of the time the lawyer will cost you more than your gun(s) are worth.
          People aren’t getting the picture here. The government has passed a ILLEGAL LAW named ERPOS or Red Flag Laws. They STEAL your 1st, 2nd, 4th, 14th and probably other Constitutional Rights. Since these Laws VIOLATE THE CONSTITUTION THEN THEY ARE ILLEGAL. SO in essence the government is FORCING ILLEGAL LAWS on US CITIZENS who have not committed a crime. THAT IS A FACT !!!!! AND THAT IS TREASON !!!!!!

        3. avatar MB says:

          @Thomas Hartshorn: Exactly, the likelihood you will ever see your guns again is almost zero. The chances of being on no-fly list and being unable to get yourself removed is zero. Don’t tolerate this unconstitutional law and attack on the Constitution.

      2. avatar Thomas Hartshorn says:

        Well stated compadre !!!!

  15. Proposed 25 September 1789
    Ratified 15 December 1791

    In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

    Bill of Rights
    Trial by Jury

    1. avatar Thomas Hartshorn says:

      YOU WILL NOT get your DUE PROCESS as you just described. That is the main issue here in that YOUR Constitutional Rights are being stolen from you by some rogue judge and cop There are several Sherrifs in Washington State and now Colorado who state THEY WILL NOT BREAK THEIR OATH !!! GOD BLESS THESE SHERRIFS, each and every one of them.

  16. Proposed 25 September 1789
    Ratified 15 December 1791

    Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

    Bill of Rights
    Cruel and Unusual

  17. Proposed 25 September 1789
    Ratified 15 December 1791

    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

    Bill of Rights
    Unenumerated Rights

  18. Proposed 13 June 1866
    Ratified 9 July 1868

    1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

    3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

    4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

    5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

    Adaption of the 14th
    Due Process

  19. avatar Cloudbuster says:

    Imagine if the good people of Lexington and Concord had been so sensible and only contested the British Extreme Risk Protection Order after the fact….

    1. avatar User1 says:

      You could be judged by 1… You could be judged by 12 if lucky. Would you rather be judged by God or by one man?

  20. Due Process Does NOT come after the fact !!! There is NO such thing as PRE Crime !!!
    Murder is a Capital Crime…It is already against the Law!

    1. avatar Greg says:

      Yes to all!

    2. avatar Mark N. says:

      Really? REALLY? After you kill your spouse or your business partner, tell that to the police when they come and search your property for evidence related to the crime and any motive. They take it all, and you DO NOT get any of it back until after trial, assuming you are found not guilty. Clothing, guns, knives, telephonic and computer records–hell all of your computer equipment, and the list goes on. Is it lawful? You bet your bippy it’s lawful.

      1. avatar jwtaylor says:

        And they do so only after obtaining a warrant, under due process of law, or all that evidence is inadmissible, regardless of if you committed the crime or not.
        They do not get to show up at your home all on their own, and prove that it had something to do with a crime after the fact. They obtain the warrant first, to Aaron’s point.

      2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        Mark N.,

        Notice that your example involves a suspect that ACTUALLY COMMITTED A CRIME versus a person that someone thinks might be dangerous and may commit a crime at some unknown future date/time.

        Executing search warrants based on evidence of an actual crime is due process. Executing confiscation orders based on conjecture is NOT due process.

        1. avatar Aaron Walker says:

          Thank YOU! It seams your the only sane person left here..I guess everyone else are residents of New Zealand…Everyone of the talking heads here waved a white flag and said each to their own! I’m think about canceling out my SUB with TTAG…They DON’T seam to stand for anything except creating controversy…I DON’T see any constructive [email protected] Activism being used like the left-wing does so well to trash civil liberties….

  21. avatar Greg says:

    “Mr. Long further encourages citizens to research and enroll in an armed citizen legal defense insurance program that offers civil and criminal defense representation. These organizations include Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, US Law Shield, US Concealed Carry Association and others.”

    Sounds great, until you find out that the Insurance Commissioner here in WA State made these instruments illegal…Did so Unilaterally, which amounts to a “Title of Nobility.” Highly Unconstitutional, but in play just the same.

    1. avatar Terry Dean says:

      USCCA only covers defensive use of your firearm. They do not cover ERPOS. I called and asked them and that was their answer.

  22. avatar Daniel Silverman says:

    I am not sure how things are handled in other states, but generally here in California the APPS program, the police or the APPS officers, not local police show up and try to talk their way in with out a warrant. At this point you can refuse, and politely let them know they will need a warrant. This will force a court hearing. If they have a warrant then there is little that can be done.

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      The APPS/DOJ guys come in AFTER you have been found guilty of a disqualifying event. The ERPO (or GVROs if you prefer) occur BEFORE an involuntary confinement in a mental health facility or conviction of a disqualifying crime, and are handled by the local sheriff/marshall/police department. ]
      That said, California has had its GVRO for a couple of years now, and it does not appear that they are used very often at all. I suspect you are more likely to be W&I Code 5150’d than getting hit with one of these things, if you really are a danger to yourself or others. DVROs and Harassment TROs are pretty common–and actually more potent. As you know, a conviction for DV results in a lifetime firearms ban.

  23. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    Resisting officers executing a court order only gives credence to the person who has sworn before the judge that the subject is a danger to himself or others.

    And when Jews resisted the Third Reich’s efforts to load them onto box cars, did that prove that Jews were dangerous and a pox on society?

    Or maybe, just maybe, resisting a bogus government order to violate your rights simply shows that you are motivated to stand up for your rights.

    1. avatar Alex Waits says:

      I was hoping someone else noticed that.

      Resisting an unlawful order does not make the order magically lawful.

      1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        Nor does it magically make the resistor a “dangerous criminal”.

      2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        Alex,

        I thought of a much better analogy. Imagine a scenario where some busy-body says that Jane Doe is unhinged and unstable and the state should limit her rights. Then, someone sets about raping Jane Doe, she screams in protest, flails about wildly trying to stop her rapist, and wails loudly as the rapist overpowers her and rapes her. Of course Jane Doe’s screaming, wild flailing, and loud wailing would then be evidence that Jane Doe is unhinged and unstable, right? Or maybe, just maybe, that would be evidence that Jane Doe was human and someone was raping her?

        1. avatar User1 says:

          It’s fine if the rapist has a badge and was order to do the raping. It’s no longer rape, just like it’s no longer murder if the killing was done in wartime.

  24. THEY’VE created “RED FLAG LAWS” to eliminate YOUR constitutional rights! THEY ,(through clever legalese, and with the pedigree of a psych-ops), have turned your Constitutional Rights into Government selected privileges! To legitimize THEIR authority, to prevent rebellion, to squash dissent, and to instantly declare U.S. Citizens Enemies of The State!

  25. avatar Wally1 says:

    This just an opinion, I think many people will not comply with ERPO court orders. After about the 25th all out firefight, ERPO document servers will re-think their role in this process. That is the only thing that will change this and it will cost lives. So the old quote “Real change only comes out of the muzzle of a gun” will hold true. There are many, many decent law abiding citizens that have taken the oath, believe in the constitution and are willing to give their life to defend it.

    1. That’s funny…I notice a few comments from popular Pro2a talking heads here who are already waving a white surrender flag…For a moment I though maybe were all New Zealanders…

    2. avatar User1 says:

      Doesn’t appear they work for the government. At least they are not located in the homeland, they’re probably keeping some other country free and secure while America is destroying itself.

  26. avatar SoCalJack says:

    What about ammo?

    1. avatar User1 says:

      Apparently, some they are likely to take your mags and ammo. If you are in California they will take your mags and likely never give them back because they are more than 10 rounds. They won’t be all that “common use,” that’s for sure.

  27. avatar Sorry excuse for Americans says:

    The lines have been drawn. The sides identified. We are currently standing aside, complacent, while group after group of THE PEOPLE are being enslaved. We are that which the Fore Fathers of this country despised. Citizens which care more about a governments allowances than their own GOD given freedom, and rights that were paid for by the blood of TRUE AMERICANS. EACH AND EVERYONE OF US DESERVES NOTHING. AND SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF OUR SPINELESS EXISTENCE. But wait! We can vote and petition our leaders! WHILE WE CHAIN OURSELVES AND OUR CHILDREN. Extremist my ass. Freedom loving people fight for their rights.

    1. avatar Thomas Hartshorn says:

      That is how our country STARTED ! BUT from what I am seeing will not happen now due to the PEOPLE !! NEVER would the people from 1940 and back EVER TAKE THIS TREASON as that is exactly what this is !! There would already be shooting in the streets.
      And for all who dont know > The Red Flag Laws in Florida has ALREADY cost legal gun owners over 450 guns STOLEN FROM THEM. The Sherrifs office in Jacksonville has set up a SPECIAL SS UNIT to illegally come steal your guns and is bragging about his achievements. SO MUCH FOR YOUR FREEDOM !!!!!

  28. avatar Yuri Bout says:

    My answer to the question “do you have any weapons?”, has always been “Other than my quick wit and charming personality, I am not sure.”

    1. avatar Random says:

      The mind is the weapon. Everything else is just a tool.

  29. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    … an ERPO must only be contested in court after the fact.

    While that is the politically correct course of action, it is a losing course of action for multiple reasons:
    (1) You cannot control whether you get an adversarial judge.
    (2) You have severely limited time and money to defend your rights.
    (3) The State has an army of people and truckloads of cash to oppose you.
    In other words Extreme Risk Protection Orders are business as usual for government:
    government defines a system which heavily favors government and puts Joe Citizen at a virtually insurmountable disadvantage.

    I will state what many people are thinking: it is time to stash/bury some firearms.

    And that suggestion reminds me of another suggestion that I have heard people declare: when it is time to bury your firearms, it is time to use them. Consider your course of action carefully.

    1. avatar David Bradford says:

      The problem with this “Take the guns 1st, Due Process later.” is that there is on due process unless it comes 1st

      Think of it like baking a cake.
      Gather the ingredients
      mix them together
      put it in a cake pan
      bake at 350
      severe
      eat

      under an ERPO it goes

      Gather the ingredients
      eat
      mix them together
      put it in a cake pan
      bake at 350
      severe

      You end up with nothing but a serving of hot shit.

      1. avatar User1 says:

        Trump had a meeting with the NRA then came out on TV saying he wants to take the guns first, raise the age to buy guns, rifles shouldn’t be easy to get, gun registration, etc. Bush also wanted gun registration and a ban on rifles.

        I don’t know why Republican voters believe Republican politicians are pro 1A, 2A, 4A, 5A, etc. Maybe it’s the party followers who are the liars rather than the people they vote for.

        1. You mean like quite a few of the big [email protected] talking heads here that now sound like Benedict Arnold giving up Benjamin Franklin, or other colonists to the Redcoats…Should have known most of these people were just kids playing Call of Duty in their mom’s basement. I think I might drop my SUB with TTAG…Not feeling very much [email protected] love here anymore…More like a bunch of New Zealanders waiting for help from the NRA…Wherever they are….No thing constructive about how to STOP “RED FLAG LAWS”. Or helping to create Nationwide Defense Funds Against Unconstitutional acts by Big Government under the guise of public safety…Right now it looks like the Globalists are winning…” Divide and Conquer” one of the easiest tricks in an authoritarians Rule book…

        2. avatar Thomas Hartshorn says:

          The Republicans are as bad as the commie dumbocraps ! The difference is that most Repubs are sneaking and lie like hell until they are elected then they turn on our rights where Dems just come right out and tell you to go screw your rights, we”re screwing you anyway.

  30. avatar Shire-man says:

    There are a couple of new mothers on my wifes side of the family and they’ve always been unstable but now with the young children they’ve flipped full blown retard. Lately they’ve been making noise about not bring their kids to visit because guns and they group text very obviously trying to make my wife out to be some sort of victim of my toxic masculinity even though technically more of what’s in the safe is hers than mine.

    I can feel it coming that should GVRO’s become law in NH one of them despite being two states and 500 miles away will phone in a claim under the misguided delusion that they’re saving my wife from a phantom or making my home safe for their kids to intrude upon.

    This world would be a wonderful place if it weren’t for other people.

    1. avatar Ragnarredbeard says:

      Wait a minute, having guns in the house might keep away the relatives? Hot damn, that is a great idea. Hello silent and clean Thanksgiving and Christmas.

  31. avatar Ragnarredbeard says:

    I would think that maybe an old tactic resorted to by people under the scrutiny of the IRS may come into play. They did things to deny/confuse ownership of property, like:

    1) label everything as belonging to another person and “on loan” to you. Presumably, they can’t confiscate stuff that doesn’t belong to you.
    2) form a trust, transfer property to the trust. Since the trust has multiple officers/parties, it may not be possible to confiscate items unless the warrant specifically identifies the trust as the accused party.

    Not sure if these would work, but I am sure that once the cops are on your doorstep its too late.

    1. avatar User1 says:

      Trying to use law to defeat law? That doesn’t work unless “The Law” wants it to work. They have illegally been ordered to confiscate hundreds of people’s guns in America in the last year and they followed those orders because they are “law” enforcement.

      No peace officer would ever claim to be “law enforcement” and they would follow the Constitution. They would be fired for not following orders.

    2. avatar Lee the Fudd says:

      My dad received a couple guns from his uncle using your point #1. But that was pre 1968 though. At this time with universal background checks being the law in some states, simply possessing another persons gun would likely get you charged with unlawful transfer of a firearm. Some States define transfer as transfer of possession, not transfer of ownership as one would think.

  32. avatar Joatmon says:

    If you stop and think about this, it’s actually a bit frightening.
    Someone, possibly a relative or friend, goes and files an order against you and gets the ball rolling.
    Officers show up at your door with a court order to seize your firearms. Here’s where it gets tricky with my situation. I have my own firearms, legally purchased through an FFL but I also store my father’s firearms separately. Would those be seized also? They’re legally not mine even though they are in my house. Would my father, still living, be able to go get his firearms without any legal actions? Have to go to court just like me?
    I’m not sure what I would do at the moment they showed up at my door. I do home carry so I have a pistol on me 99% of the time.
    It is a court order but I have no criminal record at all. I can’t say that I’d not comply or comply.
    I hope the day never comes when I have to make this decision.

    1. That’s exactly the problem. In some states, even co-workers can trigger a confiscation order. The new Colorado bill lets almost anyone do it.

      And judges will virtually always err on the side of “safety.” Get the guns out of there now and we’ll figure the situation out later. What judge wants to see his name in the paper after a shooting, reporting that he’d denied a red flag confiscation request?

      As for guns you may be storing for other people, they’ll take them all. They will not knowingly leave a firearm in your home.

      1. avatar Joatmon says:

        That’s what I was thinking. All 3 safes would be emptied even though only one safe actually has my firearms in it.
        My father would go through the roof as he has a few very collectible pieces that are for show only.
        If he was present when they came, I could see him not complying.

  33. avatar Manse Jolly says:

    If you are the subject to one of these Red Flag laws does that mean you go on the FBIs and ATFs list as prohibited person when a 4473 is filled out and submitted?

    1. avatar User1 says:

      You are treated as if you are a convicted felon.

      You lose all your guns, you lose your CCW, you’re not allowed to be around guns and you can’t buy guns.

  34. avatar Darkman says:

    It’s called a cache. I could be enough. Several are recommended.

  35. Once that We the People give these unconstitutional orders credibility…The more likely the chance they will be expanded upon!
    (Give a yard…Take a mile….)

  36. avatar TruthTellers says:

    IDK. On one hand red flag feels like the Gestapo rounding up Jews to send them to the camps and had the Jews then fought back and killed Gestapo, it’s possible it would have upset the German people so much they would have stopped the Nazi party early and avoided everything.

    OTOH, I want to believe in due process and the Bill of Rights, but when we have laws like the Patriot Act, NDAA, FEMA regions, etc. I’m not so sure the protections we had in the past still exist and that the US isn’t just Nazi Germany reincarnated, but instead of the “Master Race” it’s all about “Common Sense” reforms and equality.

    1. avatar User1 says:

      It’s the same situation as Germany. If Americans knew history they would be rightfully terrified as they realize the tyranny they live under. The government is now in the “force assimilation” phase.

  37. avatar MB says:

    These midnight raids on citizens must stop, or will will find ourselves repelling our own government from our shores, hell we did it once before, and when we became a sovereign nation, we did it again to them in 1812. Now if the government or judge asks me to appear in court nicely I will comply, where we can have a civil intelligent conversation and reach an understanding. Invade my home in the middle of the night and my civility will be reduced greatly. Invasion under the color of law is still illegal. Maybe these “lawmakers”, LEO, and judges should read the Constitution they swore to uphold and defend. The Due Process Clause provides that no states shall deprive any “person” of “life, liberty or property” without due process of law. A raid is not “due process”

  38. avatar Alex Waits says:

    “Resisting officers executing a court order only gives credence to the person who has sworn before the judge that the subject is a danger to himself or others.”

    No, no it does not. That’s just what what the perception is, and perpeptuating it does a disservice to your fellow American.

    Appeal to an unlawful authority is a cowards action. Just because the “State” declares something to be, does not make it so.

    Rolling over now for “your day in court”, is lending credence to the states actions, submitting to their rule and tacitly agreeing that they have legal authority to infringe your rights, to which you have to appeal to the same government for redress. All in the name of “muh public safety”.

  39. avatar former water walker says:

    IF I thought an illegal theft er goon seizure was gonna’ happen I’d hide anything gun related. I’d also try really hard to get names of the offending gesta er cops. Hypothetically that is…😄😊😏

  40. avatar User1 says:

    New Zealand is getting a lot of red flag confiscations now. Do what the “peace officer” says because he is just doing what he was ordered to do. Comply or die!

    In my families case, they complied and they died. I guess I should let it happen for a third time?

  41. avatar Rocketman says:

    “Try getting a concealed carry permit after conviction for a couple of those charges.” Duh. Carry permit? How the hell are you going to get a carry permit even if you DO cooperate when you have already been “red flagged?” Or buy another gun for that matter, at least legally? Most of the advice given here is from someone IN the system telling you not to resist period. Hopefully, in about a year I will be outside of the United States and making my permanent home in a place where there is still some firearm freedom left. See “Firearm freedom outside the United States?” on Youtube.

  42. avatar Ime Jin says:

    I’m sorry ‘officer’ I ” forgot” the combination. The shock & trauma due to the lack of due process seems to have caused memory loss.

    1. avatar User1 says:

      They can also force you into a mental health facility.

      1. avatar Ranger Rick says:

        Getting more than a “temporary commitment” is more difficult than a seizure order for the weapons. That’s one reason we have so many nut job vagrants these days.

        1. Not unless your about to become a “Political Prison”…a locked up ” Sovereign citizen.” Proclaiming your rights…This is the same stuff 3rd world and authoritarian countries have done for years..Now our own elected officials are put this to a test against the free citizenry of the USA! Think about it…With other police officers be subject to the same? What recourse will I have if I CAN’T afford justice! Would I be able to sue all parties involved in this dangerous and hostile act upon my person!? Who will support me with this unfathomable burden?! A public defender? Would I ever get my property and good name back in states like CA., NJ., MD., MA.,NY, etc….Really, where is due process for me?! For a false complaint after the fact….

  43. avatar MB says:

    What of more then one person in the home owns guns? Do they confiscate those guns too? Then they would be stealing the other persons property….also without due process or a warrant. I could see a huge legal battle and the state being sued, as well as any LEO involved charged to armed robbery.

    1. avatar User1 says:

      The confiscation order is considered a warrant. Police are immune when under official duty.

      California has had confiscation with due process for many years. Now there is about 17 states with the same powers. They have yet to go to the supreme court…

      1. “Heresay is NOT Due Process !”
        What YOUR describing is a 3rd world Kangaroo court conducted by the Star Chamber!

        1. avatar User1 says:

          I meant to say, “without due process.”

        2. avatar Thomas Hartshorn says:

          What he is describing is the truth and nothing but the truth. When a Red Flag warrant is issued for you then you have NO RIGHTS. YOU are being assaulted in your own home, you are convicted but not committing any crime, you lose ALL due process, the SS illegally searches & seized your property, AND they will protect the identity of the asshole accusing you. All under so called Law. BUT, this Law is ILLEGAL as it is in DIRECT CONFLICT WITH THE CONSTITUTION ! AND nobody is doing spit to stop this TREASON. When actual Sherrifs from Washington state and Colorado REFUSE to serve these warrants because it violates their OATHS to Protect & Defend the Constitution, that should tell you all you need to know. TIME FOR ACTION !!!!!!

  44. avatar Michael says:

    One persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter. Sit down, chill, read something to get your mind off of your problems…like, I don’t know…maybe, “Atlas Shrugged”, “1984” or “Revelations”. Try to come up with a safe answer to the age old question, “Have you stopped beating your spouse yet?” They haven’t just moved the goal posts this time. They’re chopping them up to make a gallows. The reasonable person that obeys every law, no matter how wrong, is more dangerous than the person that breaks every law, no matter how right…oh, well…come the Rising. Foxtrot-Kilo-Alpha

  45. avatar Conrad says:

    Over the years I have truly enjoyed owning dozens of guns. Many of them went back to the Store as Trades, and quite a few were sold as personal sales to trusted friends only – (they had CCP’s as well).
    So if one day they want your stuff, what will populate their lists? If it includes the one or two guns I have, as well as dozens sold legally then I think I could expect them to tear everything apart looking for what’s not there. Would this be true(?) or don’t they know either?

  46. avatar Model66 says:

    Arrange a buddy system. If you are served with a court order, it means that the judge does not want your guns to be in YOUR possession. This does not mean that they have to be in police possession. Check your local laws. However, I’d like to share what actually happened to a client of mine about four months ago.

    His ex made false accusations, and he was served a 60 day restraining order. When the officers showed up at his home, he complied, but was well aware of the Pittsburgh-local law. He had his son come over and take his guns, and put them in his son’s safe. My client already had his firearms inventoried with pictures and serial numbers. The officers were okay with this as it met the criteria for the court order.

    Just something to consider. Again, check the details of your local laws.

  47. avatar GlockMeAmadeus says:

    If everybody is crazy, everybody needs their guns taken away!

    If you ever get upset, stressed out, say something stupid, have a bad day, question authority, refuse to acknowledge Trump stole the election, feel uncomfortable about late term abortion, are skeptical about open borders, drive a big truck, enjoy keeping your earnings, believe right wing conspiracies about Hillary, you might be crazy.

    And if you have guns you might do something crazy with them.

    That was easy!

    1. avatar Aaron Walker says:

      ..Or If you have cancer or heart problems…Or other serious but still liveable disease…They cause stress and financial strain….My dad has been on and off fight a cancer issue…Should my dad, a senior citizen and Vet be stripped of his constitutional rights or others like him…On Heresay, and the decree of the Star Chamber….

  48. avatar barnbwt says:

    “And how we burned in the courts, later…”

  49. avatar grumpster says:

    What happens if most of your firearms are legally stored out of state? Just wondering.

  50. avatar jwtaylor says:

    You are delusional if you think telling law enforcement where your firearms are, or giving them the combination to a safe, will endear you to law enforcement, a DA, or a judge.
    You are equally delusional if you think that will stop them from tearing apart your home looking for firearms, or anything else that might be considered contraband while performing that search.

    1. avatar Greg says:

      JW, fully concur with your post.

    2. avatar WhiteDevil says:

      Cops are not your friends. If we have reached the point where EVRO have become standard place, then what exactly do you think appealing to the government that authorized them will accomplish? At that point, it’s fucking all or nothing.

    3. avatar User1 says:

      Plus, they have those internet posts of you saying you had a “boating accident” and your guns were lost.

    4. avatar John in Ohio says:

      Exactly, jwtaylor.

  51. avatar Dude says:

    ‘You have NO Options. Be polite and cooperative; you are basically considered a “dangerous armed adversary.” ‘

    They should start teaching this to kids in school. It’s amazing how many idiots resist arrest. If you’re innocent, what do you think you’re going to do? Fight the police and live on the run?

    1. avatar jwtaylor says:

      This is exactly how one single police officer in Oklahoma ended up raping 17 different women after he pulled them over on the side of the road.

    2. avatar Thomas Hartshorn says:

      I have NO OPTIONS ? Well I had a GGGG Grandad that fought in the American Revolutionary War. I sure am glad he didnt take this attitude or blimey we’ed all be still British. I will kick, spit, cuss and fight to my last breath. That’s my Options !!!!!!

  52. avatar Redlaw says:

    Dont open the door! If they breack it down do what needs doing and feel good about it, you have just taken out the trash.

  53. avatar Buff cousin Elroy says:

    Article is written by some dumbass cop, telling us to just give up our guns without a fight. You cops should be scared, come try and take my guns away for no reason and I’ll unload on you and your partners.

  54. avatar Mad says:

    I’m in my 70’s so I’ve lived a pretty good life. I believe in the law if it is a Constitutional law. I believe that a person whether a cop or a politician tries to take my property they deserve death.we are in a war people.decide what side your on.i already have. I believe with all my heart it truly is better to die fighting.i will not grovel at the feet of these sadistic bastards.think the military won’t violate their oath look back at Katrina 2005.choose you this day whom you will serve God or satan.i have made my peace with Christ.so when I go down I will do my best to take one or more of them with me.remember this is War. Death to Tyrants

    1. avatar TweetyRex says:

      By the time the police and the newspapers get done with you, you’ll be a drug dealer/terrorist/pedophile/whatever it takes to discredit you. You won’t be a patriot or a hero, you’ll be just another dead dirtbag who got what he so richly deserved.
      The question for now is:
      Has it already happened? And if it has, how would we know it?

      1. avatar John in Ohio says:

        You are correct as well.

        Over the years, I’ve seen that character assassination carried out on a few people I knew personally. Granted, it wasn’t as extreme as your comment described but it was enough. It destroyed their reputations and their lives.

        1. avatar jwtaylor says:

          Doesn’t matter. Physical assassination beats character assassination any day.

        2. avatar John in Ohio says:

          It depends on the beliefs of the individual and what is most dear to them.

          There are people that would rather face death than willingly lose their liberty or exhibit gross cowardice.

  55. avatar Minuteman says:

    Hello officers. By all means come on in and let me open my safe for you guys. Help yourself to my guns and ammo. I’m sorry I didn’t have milk and cookies ready for your visit. Never ever argue with the authorities whether they are doing non constitutional acts. Always capitulate and never fight back. Always let them know they hold the true power and that you realize your just a helpless pawn. By all means bend over and stay alive. That’s what our founding fathers would expect you to do. Never ever refresh the tree of liberty with our blood.

  56. avatar Buff cousin Elroy says:

    I am going to be cheering when I hear about cops that get shot and killed while confiscating law abiding citizens firearms.

    I support law enforcement, but anyone who follows confiscation orders deserves death.

    1. avatar B.D. says:

      Fuck the laws. You see where they get us. You see the tyrants who uphold them. Law and order is a manipulation of control and taxation.

      Come and fucking take them.

      1. avatar Mad says:

        Do they think we are the only ones who will die? they are so arrogant to think they won’t be killed in the process.somebody will trigger a mass attack and all hell will break loose.molon labe btw bring your own body bags

  57. avatar MojoMedicineMan says:

    Yeah, it’s obvious “who is who” here, but some good rational facts debated too..
    Ruby Ridge, Waco and 9/11 was attempted once before it actually happened, etc.
    After 9/11, the first thing that I said to everyone present in the room was “That our own Govt is going to use this against us”. One thing leads to another, as pointed out previously. You cannot even paddle your own kid’s ass without going to jail now.
    As a matter a fact, all they have to do is make up a story and you can have an officer pointing a hot duty pistol at you while your standing there in a t-shirt, short’s and sandals, scratching your head. Saying, wtf is going on here? I hate to sound like a pessimist, but a previous poster is right about the lines have been drawn and shit is going down everyday. We’re living in strange times.. God Help Us!

    1. avatar John in Ohio says:

      Incrementalism favors tyranny. People cannot baby-step themselves back to true liberty. This is the nature of government and the individual. Each generation has a choice to fight back or kick the can down the road and make it all the more difficult for the next generation.

      People are just now starting to realize this even though it’s written in all of human history.

      G-d helps those who help themselves.

  58. avatar Mike says:

    #80percentlife
    Nice to have a couple untraceable firearms stashed off-site that don’t technically exist.
    Best argument yet for the hobby of amateur gunsmithing.

  59. avatar GridSquare says:

    That’s right little Juden. Just get in the boxcar and don’t resist. It’ll only be worse if you resist.

  60. avatar Kyle says:

    Nice story, but I have to ask. At what point are we going to acknowledge the police state we are becoming.

    At some point, if this continues to escalate, we are going to have say “no”….forcefully.

    1. avatar John in Ohio says:

      When people wise up to the fact that tyranny wins incrementally. They stand here or it gets worse.

  61. avatar Tom Worthington says:

    So much for “From my cold dead hands.” I would not have believed it.

  62. avatar Sam says:

    We have a influx of 10’s of millions of people from sh!thole countries who don’t know what freedom is.. they just want open borders and vote 4 the communist party handing out the free welfare and free green cards by the million.

    Our borders should be guarded with guns and no one gets past period! Only legit people come and go.

    Shut it down or its all gone…its probably too late to deport 100million communist too.

    IDGF about ur feelings trolls …. anyone 4 illegal immigration is not what i served this country for……35 plus generations of my family help build this place WITH BLOOD and GREAT SACRIFICE and now some retarded Commi bureaucrats just gives it all away….for votes……

    The Crisis is in America! WAKEUP!

    https://www.conservativereview.com/news/9-shocking-march-stats-system-wide-emergency-border/

    1. avatar John in Ohio says:

      Hermetically seal the border and we can watch this place become a giant North Korea.

      You fought for a government, paycheck, and benefits. You might have truly believed differently but this nation has been ruled by tyrants longer than you or I have been alive.

      My family has been here since the earliest colonies and has served every generation. That doesn’t mean anything.

  63. avatar Arizona Free says:

    What if your friend has some of your firearms in his safe and a predated receipt for your previously owned firearms. This breaks the chain of custody and can be resold at a later time after the court has made it’s ruling. At least you get them back in the same condition. Like a divorce sale you can sell to whom ever you want at a bargain price. Wasn’t Newsweek sold for $1.00. If you see a situation developing make the move…quietly and with receipt in hand dated prior to any court action they have no legal standing to confiscate a third party private property.

  64. avatar John in Ohio says:

    Can we now drop the law abiding gun owner shtick and simply call him a gun owner? As I have been saying for a mighty long time; if you love your liberty, chances are you will not be a law abiding gun owner, if you live.

    Eventually, many of us will have to choose to be either law abiding or gun owner. Tyranny won’t allow all of us to be both.

    1. avatar Minuteman says:

      Excellent point John!

  65. avatar David Bradford says:

    TIP for anyone who has or is considering stashing any (or better ALL) guns and ammo not needed for immediate personal and home defense. NEVER move any firearms off the property while carrying a cell phone. Even while turned off a cell phones movement can be tracked and traced. Likewise, any car equipped with satellite radio service, On Star, LoJack or the likes can also be traced. Do not use your own vehicle (license plate cameras can track you) and do not rent a vehicle for the move. Borrow a friends or coworkers old clunker and don’t tell them where you are going(use cash only for fuel). If at all possible use a motorcycle with partially obscured plates any time you access the stash. TELL NO ONE where the stash is.

  66. avatar Fully Involved says:

    The cops are gonna have themselves a giggle when they see all those “come and take it” gear and cerakote jobs.

  67. avatar Tom Worthington says:

    The more I think about this, the madder I get. It is not just your guns you would be willing to die for, it is The Constitution. Are you willing to die for The Constitution or not? A law enforcement official comes to your door with a warrant to seize your firearms. Obviously, you have no prior knowledge this is about to happen. In fact, it is unlikely you will even know why it is happening. The only thing you know is that some representative of the government is here to take any and all of your legally purchased firearms. And you are just going to stand aside and let them do it? Do I want to shoot a law enforcement official? Absolutely not. I have great respect for what they do, and have to put up with, everyday. The ones I have met and/or know are also great people. Do I want to die and/or be gravely injured by law enforcement? About as much as I would want to do the same to law enforcement. But where does it end? What line has to be crossed before you simply stop allowing it?

    If they have a warrant for my arrest, I am going to come quite peacefully. THAT is what a lawful warrant would be for, if I was such a bad guy. And that is what somebody who can’t be allowed to have firearms should be… locked up. Do I know exactly what I’ll do when and if they actually show up to take my firearms? Heck, I don’t really know that until it really happens. Maybe I’ll just cower in the corner like a beaten dog and let them do whatever they want. I hope not, but it’s certainly possible.

    1. avatar John in Ohio says:

      “It is not just your guns you would be willing to die for, it is The Constitution. Are you willing to die for The Constitution or not?”

      No, I am not willing to die for the Constitution. It is merely words on parchment. I am, however, willing to die for my liberty and my Creator.

  68. avatar Bad Hat Harry says:

    So what would happen if a cop was subject to a red flag order? Are they immune to receiving one? The usually LEO carve out? Would he or she be subject to a SWAT visit from fellow officers? Would their service weapon be taken away?

    1. avatar John in Ohio says:

      Some would undoubtedly be given kid gloves treatment as a professional courtesy.

  69. avatar B.D. says:

    Look at all the cowards in this comment section not willing to fire the first round.

    Come and fucking take them, tyrants.

    1. avatar David Bradford says:

      I’m assuming B.D. stands for Big Dick. You must be some kind of stupid calling people cowards for not basically standing in the street with a garden hose to fight off the flash flood coming directly at them.

      But you go ahead and commit suicide by cop now. Because when the war gets hot and the shooting starts we are not going to want irresponsible fools like you jumping up and yelling insults at the enemy giving up the location of their unit.

  70. avatar Phrederick says:

    Cooperate with the man holding the gun is what we tell people in a hostage situation, not citizens of a free country.

  71. avatar Eric says:

    The least anyone that believes in the 2nd amendment should do is to do whatever he can to serve jury duty, being especially careful to avoid saying anything that would prevent him getting seated over 2nd amendment beliefs, and then to make sure there’s nothing worse than a hung jury for anyone that gets charged with any stupid firearm laws (which is pretty much all of them) or for any resistance to the enforcement of any stupid firearm laws.

  72. avatar Icabod says:

    The Gary Willis case is disturbing. On Saturday night there was, as a niece reported “Family being family.” A relative then made the red flag complaint. At 5 AM the police were at his door.
    After the shooting the police Chief closed the investigation. No investigation, hearing, or discussion.
    Maryland had 360 requests for red flag warrants. Arundel County, where Mr. Willis died had the majority of these. You get the picture?
    To my knowledge there are no consequences for filing a fake complaint.
    Last, the Willis homicide has had nothing further. No lawsuits, no follow up stories, nothing.

  73. avatar Thomas Hartshorn Jr says:

    First of all I see no comment from the commentator that Red Flag Laws are Completely ILLEGAL. Any law passed that directly conflicts with the Constitution is Illegal. Secondly my 1st, 2nd, 4th, 14th, and who knows how many other Constitutional rights have just been raped by a kangaroo court. You spoke of Due Process, well that was just murdered when the SS shows up ! I get no due process, They perform illegal search & seizure, and I am not being allowed to confront my accuser, who by the way is probably a irresponsible asshole that has a grudge against you. NO SIR I for one am not taking these NAZIS storming my house. If they were any type of decent LOE they would honor the Oath they took to Protect & Defend the Constitution, not Murder it as the rotten storm troopers in MD. did. ALL LEO should take a lesson from the patriotic Sherrifs in Washington state, Colorado and others WHO REFUSE TO BREAK THEIR OATH! To these Sherrifs I salute !!!! The ones that break that Oath will be sued the hell out of including the judge and I will use violating my Constitutional Rights as a defense. THESE laws are ILLEGAL AND TREASONOUS !!!!!

  74. avatar anonymous says:

    unfortunately I will view this as a home invasion and people will lose their lives including possibly me.

  75. avatar HoundDogDave says:

    What I see is the issue in dealing with ERPOs is that an individual has basically 2 options, comply or die. No one is coming to help because by the time anyone who could/would help defend them finds out it’s happening, it’s all over. If this passes nationally and ERPOs become a more commonplace abuse I see pushback on a large scale coming. Now, I’m no great tactician and not suggesting anyone should kill cops but even I can see one possible outcome if this goes on much longer. One or more of the more militant groups will plan ahead to know exactly where one will happen. They could do this by calling in a Red Flag on a known location where they would have a significant tactical advantage. Then, having planted IEDs prior to calling in, and positioned a half dozen sharpshooters a quarter mile away in every direction surrounding the sight, wipe out an entire SWAT team as soon as the breach the door. 2 or 3 of these types of attacks would put an immediate halt to ERPO seizures by L.E. agencies, I would think. I also think dark days are before us, sooner than later.

  76. avatar Climber says:

    I live in Douglas County, Colorado. I had the displeasure of witnessing my county sheriff, Tony Spurlock present and glad handing with other anti-2A progressives as our governor signed the Red Flag bill into law last Friday on local and now national TV. Sheriff Spurlock has served for 39 years with the DCSO and he is in his second term as sheriff. Thank God that he is term limited and cannot be elected again. Sheriff Spurlock is or was a “Red” sheriff in a “Red” county. He is or was the most popular elected official in Douglas County, a county of about 340,000 south of Denver. The “Rs” outnumber the “Ds” in Douglas County about 2 to 1. With his support of the Red Flag bill along with his compelling testimony before committees of the state legislature he has fast become the local darling of the gun hating progressives.

    Understand that as a result of the 2018 elections the dems made a clean sweep of our state legislature. They now hold the governor, the state AG and both sides of the state house in their progressive hands and they are determined to steamroll over all of the law abiding gun owners out there and they make no apologies but gloat in their self important arrogance. Sheriff Spurlock has chosen their side and he has seen fit to find himself at great odds with the county commissioners and the county central GOP committee. Our county commissioners have promised to withhold any funding that would support any enforcement of unconstitutional gun laws. Our county commissioners also have the authority to remove the sheriff from office. There will be a recall effort underway to fire him as soon as state law allows it and I am of the opinion that he will survive a recall. I wish him no harm but he has to go and the sooner the better.

    Elsewhere in Colorado many sheriffs and county commissioners have come down hard dead set against the Red Flag bill. Hopefully this battle will be fought in judges’ chambers refusing to issue an ERPO and LEOs refusing to carry them out. As honest men and women we need to seek peaceful solutions and I do believe that the Red Flag law will be overturned. At the same time I will in no way begin to entreaty or take some subservient attitude towards those that would legislate, adjudicate or enforce any such unconstitutional BS. Our forefathers, be they literal or be they political, gave us this great Republic and now it is our turn to take a stand but let us tread with care. We will win this but our resolve and stance is paramount. Remember, we have their attention and they are fearful of us, those that would commit unconstitutional acts against us. If they were not fearful of us, they would not legislate against us as they do. Just for a moment put yourself in their place. We, The People do present an insurmountable obstacle before them. It is up to them to cross the line first and then God help us to overcome.

    Sooner or later there will be armed resistance and people will die. What is an acceptable number of dead on both sides of this argument before our elected elite and the turncoats in law enforcement realize that they have made a huge mistake? To the LEOs out there that choose to trash their oath to our constitution because their jobs and pensions depend on it or choose to take on the too lame and too shallow, “I was just following Orders.”…..That did not work at Nuremburg and it will not work here either. That sleeping giant that I and many refer to as “armed America” best stay asleep. That sleeping giant can be awakened however. A few good solid kicks and it will get up and walk around and for good reason.

    1. avatar Thomas Hartshorn says:

      Good luck Colorado, but be careful as the damn Republicans are getting worse than dumbocraps as they are 2 faced and sneaky about passing them. Here in Florida we can thank ALL Republicans for these NAZI Red Flaw law. The prior governor was Republican and is now our US Senator and he is the OATH BREAKING NAZI that signed ours into law knowing full well that these laws violate the Constitution, Our other US SENATOR, Marco Rubio has introduced SB7 which are National Red Flag laws for all states. Now Sen Lindsey Graham, another Republican is planning another one Nationally. Probably a backup so if Rubio’s fails. Also everybody really needs to be pressing President Trump on this as he may NOT VETO these Bill’s coming through the Congress now, ( House & Senate).
      Trumps Education Director, Betsy Devoe did a study and RECCOMENDED to the president that Red Flag Laws are the best protection for school kids. I wrote the president about this, TWICE and asked if he will VETO. HE WILL NOT ANSWER ME.
      So remember to question your candidates and see if they KEEP THEIR OATHS !!!!! IT IS REPUBLICANS DOING THIS EQUALLY !!!!

  77. avatar Nunya F says:

    “Sure officer right this way”, as I grab a concealed firearm and put a few in his head then use his body for cover against his fellow tyrants!

  78. avatar David Bandel says:

    What’s wrong with:
    Excuse me officer, I need to call the FBI. You are in violation of Title 18 USC 242: Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law (Color of Law violations are FBI jurisdiction) and you and the issuing judge are now FELONS if you insist on carrying out this order. I WILL see you in prison for 10 years (you are armed) and the judge for 1 year. Do you wish to continue?
    In fact, the officers that murdered Gary Willis did so WHILE committing a felony and should be hung (this would get a lot of LEOs attention). LEOs are NOT above the law and the commission of a felony by an LEO is extremely serious in my book. Just as soldiers can be prosecuted for carrying out an unlawful order (ask former Lt. Calley), LEOs cannot hide behind a judges’ unlawful order. If you commit a felony, you are a felon. Plain and simple.

    1. avatar Mad says:

      If you could even get a attorney to take the case.if it did go before the grand jury the district attorney who controls them would intimidate them.same with a trial jury.iam afraid the die is cast.its War

  79. avatar Mort says:

    It’s government theft under color of authority! It’s unlikely you will see your property again!

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