Three Rifle Rounds to Watch in 2019

Josh Wayner for TTAG

When I was growing up it seemed like there were new cartridges coming and going every day. I recall with particular fondness the plethora of now-extinct wonder rounds that lived and died in the early years of the AR boom. The short magnum craze happened around the same time.

Today we’re living in the make-believe world of long-range gamer calibers that makes me wish the industry-wide zombie trend never ended. While the cringe will probably never end on that front, we’re going to be looking at three noteworthy rifle calibers to watch in 2019. We’ll see how long they last.

The first isn’t exactly fair because it’s been around a while. I’m of course talking about the 300 Blackout. The reason it’s on this list is because the innovation around it simply never seems to end. While it’s still relatively young compared to centennial rounds like the .30-06 and .45 ACP, the 300 BLK has quickly become a modern classic that’s endeared itself to rifle shooters all over the country.

Why exactly is the 300 BLK so popular? For starters it’s a supremely adaptable cartridge that can fit into almost any role that a rifle is needed for. The ability to fire 240gr subsonics at 800fps and 78gr supersonics at 2,800fps with no modification to the gun is huge. The modern rifleman has a full spectrum of options when it comes to the 300 BLK that aren’t offered by any other rifle round.

Josh Wayner for TTAG

SIG SAUER has recently released two fantastic new rounds for the 300 BLK that are sure to impress. Both of these rounds are the result of tremendous research and development on SIG’s part and they exemplify just how good 300 BLK has become.

The first of these is a 120gr all-copper expanding bullet made for short barreled guns. While you’d think that all 300 Blackout loads are made for SBR-length barrels, that isn’t the case. The vast majority of guns chambered for the cartridge are 16” and most ammo is designed to work at somewhat higher speeds than advertised.

The SIG load here will get a full review very soon, but my initial testing in a 7.5” barrel revealed it was probably the most accurate supersonic SBR load I’ve ever used.

Josh Wayner for TTAG

The next SIG load is quite a head-turner. The 205gr Tipped Hunting load features a special bullet contour that optimizes feeding in standard 5.56mm AR mags. This round is loaded to subsonic speed and features SIG’s proprietary bullet technology to ensure reliable expansion in game.

I am extremely pleased that this ammunition exists as it fills a niche in the subsonic sector, which has sadly been filled with large FMJ-type loads that lack terminal performance.

The 350 Legend is the new kid on the block in the world of straight-walled hunting cartridges. The round was designed to be the perfect straight-wall legal cartridge for states that have laws requiring their use in deer hunting zones.

The rifle you see in the photo is from Precision Rifle Company in Dorr, MIchigan. It is literally the very first custom build chambered in 350 Legend anywhere in the country. The box of ammo in the photos is full of genuine Winchester proof loads for testing actions and barrels, which was cool to see.

Josh Wayner for TTAG

The 350 Legend fits in these areas in the rifles of dedicated deer hunters who are looking for an economical, but practical cartridge for their sport. The round will be offered in a number of bullet types this year from Winchester and there will certainly be more to come down the road. Rounds like the 450 Bushmaster are substantially more expensive and there are no real options for cheap practice ammo out there.

A nice thing about the 350 Legend is that it can be used with regular 9mm suppressors. I have been told that most normal 9mm cans will be just fine with it as the bullet diameter is virtually identical to the 9mm. I don’t have a sample round to measure, but it’s safe to assume that the 350 Legend uses either a .355” or .357” bullet. The ability of a hunter to use a suppressor he already owns for his handgun with his hunting rifle is a big deal.

Another mark in the plus column for the 350 Legend is that is low-recoil and user friendly. The 450 Bushmaster can be too powerful for the small-statured, which, combined with being expensive ammo, can make for a bad day at the range and on the wallet. With an inexpensive round cost and low recoil, the 350 Legend is set to be very popular in the woods this fall.

The biggest round on my watch list is one that has enjoyed a short, but meteoric rise. The 300 PRC from Hornady is a magnum rifle round that recently won a large Dept. of Defense contract to supply ammunition for the newly adopted Barrett MRAD sniper rifle.

The significance of this adoption cannot be overstated. The 300 PRC has only been around for a virtual second in the world of cartridges and the fact that it has already secured a coveted nod from Uncle Sam in that time is a major feat.

Josh Wayner for TTAG

So why the 300 PRC and not rounds like the 300 Norma Magnum, 300 Win Mag, 338 Lapua, or 6.5 Creedmoor? (Author’s Note: The 6.5 Creedmoor is simply too powerful, accurate, and flat-shooting to make warfare a challenge, so a primitive .30 caliber had to be selected. Sad, I know, but GLOCK’s MHS submission suffered the same fate of being just too good for general issue, and the gun that actually followed the rules of the MHS contest was selected instead. Life can be so unfair!)

The answer to this is both economical and practical. The 300 PRC is a far more cost-effective round compared to 338 Lapua and 300 Norma Mag.

When compared to the tried-and-true 300 Win Mag the 300 PRC can deliver a heavier projectile at greater speed, but with similar recoil. This enables the shooter to extend their combat range to over a mile while firing a round that is both low recoil and easily suppressed.

I have had the chance to touch off a few rounds of 300 PRC from of a conventional rifle. I am looking forward to testing it in the MRAD. The round has the same recoil characteristics as a 300 Win Mag for the most part. At 900 yards there wasn’t much of a discernable difference on steel, but there was a bit of edge in the 300 PRC’s favor when it came to wind deflection.

While I don’t think that the 300 PRC will be adopted military wide, I do suspect that it will gradually take the place of a number of mixed-bag rounds in limited service.

I see the military continuing to issue 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm for standard small arms and 300 PRC and 50 BMG for specialized rifles and machineguns. I have been tipped off that there are military varieties of 300 PRC already in development to include AP and single-direction tracer (that’s a tracer bullet that doesn’t streak like existing rounds, but instead has a bullet base with an illuminated substance on it visible only to the shooter/spotter), but I have not been able to verify this with any manufacturers.

So there you have it. There are certainly other rounds to keep and eye on, but this is my short list and I’m sticking to it. If there are other rounds that you feel should have been included, please let me know and I’ll take a look at them. I don’t shoot 6.5 Creedmoor, so I’m bound to miss some things from time to time.

comments

  1. avatar Draven says:

    “I see the military continuing to issue 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm for standard small arms”

    except for the whole 6.8mm telescoping round that the Army is already working on…

    1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

      We still had working m-60’s in my unit when I ETSed 2 years ago. By the time those two are discontinued power armor may be commercially available

      1. avatar MouseGun says:

        I’m personally crossing my fingers for Liberty Prime.
        “America will never fall victim to the Red Menace!”

        1. avatar Greg says:

          The Red Menace comes from within now in the form of the Democratic Party.
          The US could possibly fall to them.

        2. avatar Mad Max says:

          Greg:

          Nah. There’s already too many 6.5 Creedmors around for the red menace to overcome.

      2. avatar strych9 says:

        In this case maybe not.

        The whole way the Army is going is towards rounds that will defeat modern light-weight body armor at reasonable ranges (which IIRC they consider 500m).

        The idea is that we’ll have a rifle that effectively puts the enemy back in 1965 by zipping through armor plates while our guys still get the benefits of lightweight body armor that stops things like 7.62x39API. The enemy will then have to do enormous work to figure out how to stop our rounds without adding tons of weight to their gear and also spend enormous amounts of money developing and equipping their forces with a new rifle to defeat our armor. By that time we’ll probably have armor that can stop what they throw at us for a modest increase in weight, if any increase.

        Staying a step ahead means we costs our adversaries enormous amounts of time, money and logistical effort or deter them from fighting us at all.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Hardly as much of an issue as you would think. Will it help stop Abdul and his fellow durka durkas? Yes. Will it matter to a near-peer opponent like China? Hardly. On the modern battlefield body armor makes wounds survivable, it does not prevent them. A SAPI plate only covers your vitals. A hit outside the plate probably won’t immediately kill you, but it WILL take you out of the fight. Against near-peer opponents, small arms are hardly a major driving force.

          In short…

          We don’t need super bullets to fight asymmetric enemies. M855A1 and Mk262 work just fine.
          We don’t need super bullets to fight near-peer enemies because small arms are largely irrelevant when your enemies are riding around in IFVs with MBT support under contested airspace.

          Rather than spending obscene amounts of money on yet another boondoggle that is over a decade away from deployment, the Army needs to get their MBTs, IFVs, and helicopters back up to speed.

        2. avatar strych9 says:

          Serge:

          Not to nerd out about this entirely, but…

          If you look at the Army’s current tests the idea is to zip through plate and deliver fatal energy on the other side with a bullet that penetrates but does so with enough mass retention to do serious damage, effectively negating the point of wearing something like a SAPI plate.

          The round’s other benefit is good effect on unarmored targets to an even greater range. The whole concept is to generally extend the distance you can reach out and touch people with lethal force, kind of the same idea as the SVD when it was developed but without the specialization. Effectively, when you look at what they’re really doing they’re looking to make something like a “super 6mm” round. Serious punch, AP rounds effective against all modern body armor to 500m in a fairly lightly recoiling package for fast followup shots and all that in a pretty light package. That’s why they’re looking at improving the projectile and the delivery in the 6mm range. Does physics allow for what they really want? They seem to think so.

          China is immaterial, and I suspect the DoD sees them as such in this case, since other than their SOF units they aren’t going to issue body armor in rational amounts because they don’t give a fuck about their troops in terms of casualties. There’s always another grunt in their mind. China’s focus is on naval and air superiority anyway and they suck at that and will for another 20-50 years. In that case it’s not tech but rather command issues involving how decisions are made. The best weapon against them at this point is disrupting communications because they require ground based control for aircraft and leave nearly no decision making capability in the hands of the folks who run ships. In terms of ground based air to air combat they’re where we were in Korea. In terms of naval warfare, both ship to ship and naval air combat they’re where we were in 1945.

          China’s new tech, in some cases, is impressive if it works as advertised but still has serious holes in it in terms of force projection capabilities. For instance their new hypersonic antiship missiles. Can they target a moving carrier? Probably not. Best guess is a 1 in 40 hit ratio at this point. Even if they can hit the ship, the system isn’t mobile and therefore is vulnerable to attack and stands only as a defensive system in the best of circumstances. Subs with cruise missiles can defeat China’s best antiship systems and do so fairly cheaply. Not to mention that there is good reason to think we’re lightyears ahead of them in hypersonic tech but it’s just something we don’t talk about much.

          In terms of their ability to detect us they brag about their new radar capabilities but in reality it’s not much to worry about because by the time they can determine distance and speed our aircraft we’re within weapons range for quite a while meaning they still can’t lock on the aircraft and have to worry about what we’ve already put in the mail for them. If they continue to improve we might need a new version of the Wild Weasel but that’s well into the future. In short, China is not “near peer” status. They’re a weightlifter claiming near peer status with a world-class boxer. Looks impressive but they’re a paper tiger at this point. In a real fight they’re going to lose badly and quickly.

          Then of course there’s the whole “economic warfare” thing. People greatly overestimate China’s position here but, again, that’s another discussion. In reality, I don’t think there is a “near peer” to us right now and there won’t be for the foreseeable future. That’s not a reason to rest on our laurels though.

          Which brings us back to the original point: Is the Army developing a giant boondoggle? Maybe, maybe not. As Julius Caesar supposedly said “It’s only hubris if I lose”. Such infantry capability is much more useful against forces other than China unless we end up invading China or in the middle of a India-China war, which seems unlikely to me. Russia OTOH is still using infantry to great effect in places we might actually fight them. Yes, an airstrike, artillery strike or even just an ol’ fashioned M242 negates body armor but there are likely going to be quite a few places where we are unwilling or unable to use our advantages in those regards. The ability for one guy to shoot another and put him down reliably is going to matter for the foreseeable future so the real question is if 5.56 is good enough for that job. The Army seems to think it’s not but that’s primarily because of our experience in Afghanistan.

          On the margins is it a good investment? The Pentagon seems to think so but they’re often wrong about this kind of thing because they tend to prioritize the wrong things in multiple ways. Personally I’m more interested in what they might figure out that’s useful to civilian application in the future. To put it in a historical perspective I’d say the US is looking for a light weight, low recoil system they can use to basically hand every infantry soldier the modern version of a Dragunov. A system that effectively extends the range of a rifle squad out to 500-600m based on current and projected armor capabilities for infantry. Basically handing everyone a dual purpose infantry rifle/DMR.

          Personally I tend to agree with you that modern combined arms systems have been effective since early 1918, or late 1917 depending on how you look at it, and whoever has the best combined arms tends to steamroll the competition. So, if the Army can do this at a reasonable price (however you might define that little jewel) then great. If not, then it’s a giant waste of time and money. Time will tell and we don’t really get any input.

        3. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

          Strych9, I haven’t been paying attention for almost a year now. How is the Army going to come up with 500m AP round cheap enough for general issue? This is a sincere rather than rhetorical question.

        4. avatar strych9 says:

          Vic:

          Nice to see you again. WB.

          I have no idea what they think the cost curve of this is going to look like or if they’ve even thought of it. I’ve just been following what they’re actually doing and saying (to the extent that I can without being involved in the program or knowing someone who is).

          They want what they want and they seem to believe that a new ~6mm round will give them the desired effect. I have not seen a discussion of price-point and quite frankly wouldn’t expect one since 1) it’s not their money and 2) if this gets off the ground then they’re going to put out a set of specs and ask for bids on some outrageous number of rounds. If 5.56 is any guide, they may well take an inferior round, let it suck for awhile and then use that to “upgrade” the round to what it was supposed to be in the first place.

          Theoretically I suppose it’s possible they create the best rifle round ever designed and then find out that no one can actually produce it at an affordable price. The first half of that is unlikely, the second half is more probably more realistic than we’d like to think.

          Of course there’s also the lies. Just look at how the AF talks about how much money they need to “counter” Russian and Chinese hypersonics yet they accidentally drop hints on a semi-regular basis that they already have tech in the pipeline that makes the most advanced stuff Russia or China have look like stone-age gear.

    2. avatar Josh Wayner says:

      You’re going to LOVE an article I have coming up that addresses just this. Bring popcorn.

    3. avatar merlin says:

      and will be working on for years.

    4. avatar pwrserge says:

      How many times has the Army run an M4 replacement program already? 6.8 SPC is too short legged for the modern battlefield. Given that there is more focus on fighting near-peer opponents, I don’t see the army adopting a gun designed purely for urban warfare.

      1. avatar BradP says:

        Except the Army round isn’t 6.8SPC. Thanks for playing!

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          No… it’s a magic fairy dust round that doesn’t even exist yet. I’m sure it will be completely different from 6.8 SPC.

        2. avatar Draven says:

          It pretty much already exists, they are apparently playing with different profile bullets at the moment…

      2. avatar Draven says:

        the 6.8mm telescoping case round I’m referring to is not 6.8mm SPC.

    5. avatar Gadsden says:

      All of you are wasting your time. I’ll put a case a beer on it that in 20 years the military is still using 5.56 and 7.62. Those are the rounds of the past, but they are also the rounds future.

      1. avatar Draven says:

        ok sure… i doubt it, tho…

        1. avatar Josh Wayner says:

          Draven you must be new to guns. Old is always new. The 6.5×55 is over 100 years old and is better than 6.5 Creedmoor. We’ve been at our peak since WW1 and everything is just a reimagining of what was in fashion then. Long action, short action, AR, AK, it’s all the same coin. The military will just spend billions to realize there is nothing wrong with 5.56mm. I have a new whole article devoted to this so hang tight.

        2. avatar Draven says:

          nope, not new to guns. …

          ‘we’ve been at a peak since WW1’

          yeah, tell that to the snipers who are making shots at 3000 meters…. and no, its not just the scope or the rifle, VLD bullets did not exist for WW1

          ‘5.56 is adequate’

          I suppose you’re one of those guys that thinks that the many multiple stories of AlQ and ISIS and Taliban guys taking a half-bag of 5.56 and still fighting is just ‘anecdotes’

          Yes, we DO need to look at being able to pierce body armor at range, but we also need to be able to put down unarmored targets ‘at range’ as well. Anyone who thinks that things are over and done with in the Middle East is only fooling themselves.

        3. avatar Gadsden says:

          Josh you gave me a good reminder on all that, the past 30 years the military has invested billions into this with little to no results. Off the top of my head I remember:

          1. Land warrior.

          2. The OIWC.

          3. The XM8

          4. .264 USA

          5. A new .50 cal

          6. Metal storm

          7. A new submachine gun.

          At the end of all that, they decided 5.56/AR is still optimal for standard issue. And the M2 easily is the last thing anyone needs to replace.

        4. avatar Draven says:

          And yet, stuff off of Land Warrior is still being developed.

          They never really spent that much on metal storm, it became evident pretty quick that it was overhyped. At this point the only people who are talkign about metal storm is the developer, internet weapons aficonados, and people that read John Ringo books.

        5. avatar Gadsden says:

          Draven, your not necessarily “wrong”, but the military procurement process doesn’t really focus on the end result of any product. It’s mainly about logistics. Ever since the civil war, the army and the rest of the military place logistical concerns above all else. There’s plenty of gear and ammo selections that are “better” then what the military uses, but the military will never select them because the logistical supply chain is ultimately more important to a war machine then a marginal increase in hit to kill ratio, or soldier comfort, or anything really.

        6. avatar Draven says:

          I am aware, but the ostensible objective of this 6.8 cartridge is to increase the range on piercing armor and on killing shots, as well as give them less weight than 7.62 ammo.

          However, I’m willing to bet that they are going to ‘discover’ that this CT round isnt great for machine guns because – they apparently forgot their experience with the Steyr and HK ACR prototypes- the plastic cases aren’t removing enough heat from the action. Brass and steel cases to act as a heat sink, which are then ejected from the weapon…

  2. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

    Good to see the 300 PRC got noticed. It looked promising and I haven’t picked up a 300 winmag yet so I will keep an eye on how ammo availability develops over the next few years

  3. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

    I don’t know what to say. .300 Blackout. Supressed, sub-sonic? Okay. Friend of a friend bought a .300 Blackout for his son last Christmas. Brought it to The Farm. I was underwhelmed. Especially when we couldn’t find the 8 pt. .350 Legend? Don’t know anything about it. However, I suspect there are plenty of straight wall cartridges that do the same thing for those unfortunate souls. . 300 PRC? How did that beat out 6.5mm Creedmoore? If Luke Skywalker had 6.5 Creedmoore there would never have been a sequel. There really hasn’t been anything new under the sun since shortly after the invention of smokeless powder. Regardless, of what the X, Y, or Z generation, or which ever we’re on now, think. Better rifles! Though, even that seems to be retrogressing.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “…Brought it to The Farm. I was underwhelmed. Especially when we couldn’t find the 8 pt.”

      How was .300 BLK responsible for your inability to track game?

      1. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

        Oh, I can track game, or there wouldn’t be sixteen rack bucks hanging on my wall. Full shoulder mounts. Plus many others on my friends that I have guided. But a .223 necked up to .30 caliber? For a big game hunting round? Are you kidding me? I cautioned Casey against this, but the guy and his son were his guests. A 30-30 is a better deer round. Recently bought an 18″ Marlin 336 Texan 30-30. Mint. Wouldn’t trade it for any two .300 Blackout rifles. Ain’t nothing new under the sun. You neophytes just think there is. ‘Course, there is one thing. When I shot those sixteen bucks with a .308, 30-06, 7mm Magnum, .270, etc. I didn’t have to track them very far. You hunt big game with a .300 Blackout if you want to, but like P.T. Barnum said, “There’s a sucker born every day.”

  4. avatar MouseGun says:

    350 Legend might actually stick around for a little while, the 300 BLK seems to just be a meme that won’t die, and the last one will quickly fall into obscurity, doomed to only being mentioned by gun bloggers on a slow day and YouTube operators telling people this is the proper cartridge for operating operationally.

    1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

      The .350 Legend looks like the object was to put something approximate to a .30-30* into a straight wall cartridge. It should fill a small niche as long as there are states that regulate straight walled ammo.

      *I just downloaded the Winchester catalog and they like to claim it’s more powerful than the .30-30 but the velocity and energy is a little lower, albeit from a 20″ barrel vs. 24″. The BCs are also on par with the run of the mill .30-30 stuff, but there are higher BC .30-30 options, like the Hornady LeveRevolution and Federal’s Fusion ammo, so I can’t see any reason go pick the .350 Legend over the .30-30 other than the .30-30 isn’t legal in your state. Should make a good low recoil option to the .450 Bushmaster though.

    2. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

      I’ve actually seen 300BLK at the range and in the hands of people I know. I had never even heard of 350 Legend until today. I find .300BLK brass at the range every time I go. I have never seen a .350 Legend case. Regardless of the usefulness .300blk has been heavily marketed for 6 or 7 years now. .350 Legend was introduced at SHOT Show 2019. I suspect you are getting what is and what you think should be mixed up.

  5. avatar Bob Watson says:

    A 30 second Duck Duck Go search produced a Shooting Illustrated article on the .350 Legend. The round uses a .357 bullet.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “The round uses a .357 bullet.”

      Meaning, .38 SPL and 9mm as well?

      1. avatar Anymouse says:

        .38 spc, yes. However, the 9x19mm uses a .355 bullet.

  6. avatar enuf says:

    “makes me wish the industry-wide zombie trend never ended”

    Huh? What do you mean the Zombie thing ended already? I still have all this ammo and a big box of magazines and two AR’s to handle the work load. How did I miss the end of the Zombies? I mean I didn’t get a single Zombie, not even for Christmas or my birthday or Father’s Day or any other day.

    I’m feeling terribly cheated right about now.

    WHY WAS I NOT INFORMED ABOUT THE ZOMBIE DECLINE!?!?!?

    *** DRAT ***

    I miss my Alien Vampire Zombie Virus Apocalypse . . . .

    1. avatar Gadsden says:

      I think aliens are the next big thing. If you think about it, 6.5 creedmoor is perfect for that, because rumor has it that it was actually invented in Area 51 from reverse engineering captured alien tech from the Roswell crash.

    2. avatar possum says:

      It was reported in Montana that a cross eyed cattle rancher took a few shots at an alien that was breeding a zombie Bigfoot. Keep prepping the day of reckoning is upon us.

  7. avatar Wipper snapper says:

    I wanna see a .22 loaded in a .50 Browning Case.

    1. avatar Josh Wayner says:

      5.7mm Xpress

    2. avatar skoon says:

      22 eargasplittenloudenboomer

    3. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

      Yeah, been done.

  8. avatar BradP says:

    What about 9×39? The way the price keeps coming down, I predict a lot of 300 Blackout owners re-barreling their uppers.

    1. avatar barnbwt says:

      No kidding; it’s coming in via Wolf AND Tula, half a dozen companies are developing either magazines or uppers for it, and it’s got a historically cool legacy as a ‘sniper/assassin’ round, while providing a significant step up from Blackout in power but still suppressing well. Something legitimately different than products currently on the market.

      Of course it fails to be mentioned in the article (brought to you by Hornady or whatever, lol)

  9. avatar Bt justice says:

    .17 BMM ( belted mega magnum)
    +P+

  10. avatar GS650G says:

    .308 FTW

    1. avatar James69 says:

      +10. I like to shoot shit and watch it fall dead. Just picked up the Savage Hog Hunter in 308. It rocks!

  11. avatar Joseph Quixote says:

    Meh. All of these rounds are just trying to duplicate what’s already been done. Waste of money, especially the 300PRC. How many 300 mag type shells do we need?

  12. avatar D Y says:

    I’d like to know the actual criteria that gave the 300 the nod over something like the 6.5C (not necessarily the 6.5, just something along the same lines) I assume at 1000yds defeating body armor or damaging equipment is not a criteria, and the downsides would seem to be larger, heavier rifles, larger, heavier, more expensive ammo, and more recoil. *If not necessary*, then all the cons dont make sense to this layperson.

    Everyone understands rifle weight mitigating recoil, so a 300 that weighs 20lbs probably wont be brutal to shoot. But I cant believe a 300fmj kills someone deader than a 6.5fmj at any distance. Even if you could test terminal performance meaningfully, do the 300’s ballistics outshine the 6.5C by that much?

    1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

      They also made a 6.5 prc that is to the creedmore what the 300 is to the 308. Found the idea of both interesting but I would have more stuff for the 30 setup

    2. avatar barnbwt says:

      I assume there’s a practical lower limit to caliber size/weight when it comes to usable tracer rounds.

  13. avatar Mark H says:

    How many States actually require a straight wall cartridge for Deer hunting? Three? Why does everyone from Ohio think the whole world is Ohio?

  14. avatar jsallison says:

    “strych9 says:
    March 14, 2019 at 19:03

    Serge:

    Not to nerd out about this entirely, but…”

    In the era of the ‘Little Prince’ I’mna not thinking China has quite the disregard for life as they’ve shown in the past. Even we didn’t make widely issued effective body armor, optical sights and NVDs a thing until after the army had shrunk considerably in size, reducing the overall cost. I’d have loved to have some of the toys available now in my day. But fielding 20 active divisions and reserves and Guard with that level of equipment just wasn’t affordable.

    You could also make the case that China has a surplus of military age, unmarriageable males floating about. Methinks that that is more of a problem for Putin. I’ve heard rumour that eastern Siberia is looking awfully chinese, these days.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      ” I’ve heard rumour that eastern Siberia is looking awfully chinese, these days.”

      And North Korean…

  15. avatar Brandon says:

    Why does Josh hate long range shooting so much? Isn’t anything that brings people to the shooting sports and drives innovation a good thing? He seems like such a Negative Nancy about anything that isn’t his pet field and isn’t content to not talk about it, he has to crap all over it.

    1. avatar enuf says:

      Have to agree with you. Nothing at all wrong about people pursuing any of the shooting sports. So right now there’s interest in long range marksmanship, that’s fine by me. It means employment for factory workers and all sorts of other workers. It means more people with a healthy interest i firearms, that’s always a good thing too.

    2. avatar Josh Wayner says:

      What, dare I ask, is my pet field?

      1. avatar Brandon says:

        I’m not sure to be honest. Hunting if it’s done according to your approved specifications? Maybe old school CMP? For some odd reason you seem to really have it in for long range shooting though. Aren’t all of the things we do with firearms basically play? Who cares if the way I spend my recreation time/money at the range is different than yours? The way you write just seems to have a generally negative vibe. It kind of reminds me of the people that look down their noses at other people because they enjoy something in a way that you don’t approve of. You seem to have a wealth of knowledge and experience in the industry, I’m just trying to figure out if it is all recreational “play shooting” that you have a bone to pick with or just long range stuff? Does it bother you because it is so wildly different than service rifles and iron sights at Camp Perry?

        1. avatar Josh Wayner says:

          I am a widely known critic of many things promoted by the industry in general. Long range is a particular target of mine based on the fact that I see it being used to promote what I see as animal cruelty. Having spent about fifteen years in the long range community, I feel that my critical take is both informed and accurate. The danger is that newcomers are lured in by the appeal of ‘sniper’ stuff and are subsequently led to believe that smallbore gaming cartridges are deathrays at 1,500 yards. Worse are the experts that convince themselves of the same thing along with their own infallibility. I care about conservation because I am a hunter and the promotion of these edgy and fetishist practices is what makes me frustrated to the point of writing about it.

  16. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

    Guys, I’ll leave you guys to argue the minutiae of body armor. When I was active we only put on a steel pot to jump. The rest of the time it was a patrol cap. Body armor? What stinking body armor? We don’t need no stinking body armor! Well, I did were a bit of it during the time I wore a badge. Still have a few vests that will stop up to .44 Mag., but I have to ask, even as a vet; why are we talking about military grade body armor, and what might penetrate it, on a civilian thread?

    1. avatar Draven says:

      because we’re discussing the military’s possible future calibers and what they are specifying for said caliber

      also, because why not

      1. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

        There isn’t going to be a new military caliber. They can’t even decide on a new bullet in the caliber they already have. You guys might as well debate a new flavor of milk!

  17. avatar Ragnar says:

    Considering the future of long range rounds, this could be a sign of things to come.

    From Barrett:
    “The United States Department of Defense announced today that Barrett has been selected to provide their MRAD as the U.S. Special Operations Command Advanced Sniper Rifle system, designated as Mk 21,”

    This is the new Advanced Sniper Rifle (ASR) contract for U.S. Special Operations. The rifle will be easily adapted to fire three calibers – 7.62x51mm NATO, .300 Norma Magnum, and .338 Norma Magnum.

    The .300 Precision Rifle Cartridge (PRC) is still on the table for a separate contract.

  18. avatar possum says:

    Rifle rounds are hard to watch. Them little black bees cone at you fast.

  19. avatar burley says:

    Meanwhile, I’m over here with my Lee Classic Loader putting up everything from [email protected] to [email protected] with an amazingly accurate sweet spot at [email protected] out of my “affordable” XL7 in one of the aforementioned “Centennial” cartridges. Interesting historical note about the .30-’06: much like today’s rounds, it was designed with a particular ballistic milestone in mind; which in the case of the .30-’06, was the ability to kill a cavalry horse at…

    …wait for it…

    1000 YARDS!
    It seems to me that if a round has the needed energy to drop a horse at 1000, how much armor must be needed to protect one from it at 500? I’ll stick with my “old man” round, thank you very much.

    1. avatar Ardent says:

      Not to be snarky but the answer to your question about the amount of armor needed to stop the .30 06 Is easily answered…that would be (minus the AP ammo) the standard amount of armor US troops are currently wearing, and all the AR500 plates everyone has laying around. In other words, unless you’re loading a high velocity light steel core bullet in cartridges for your 06 it is already ineffective against US issued plates, most SWAT teams plates and the ~$200 AR500 plates that everybody now seems to have.

      Simply put, there is absolutely a use for a round that can defeat these types/levels of armor without the heavy rifle and ammo that would currently required to do so.

    1. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

      No kidding! Who gives a shit? And how many of guys put on body armor every day?

  20. avatar Daniel says:

    Some of these replys could qualify for a thesis paper!🤣

  21. avatar Maynrd says:

    Funny how the article starts off bashing the WSM/SAUM fad, then regurgitates the same points to tout the 300 PRC — more velocity and less recoil than 300 Win Mag!

  22. avatar bontai Joe says:

    Three rifle rounds to watch? What ever happened to the 6 mm PPC and 6.5 mm PPC rounds? They were allegedly the mostest bestest accurate rounds ever made ever. Gone already?

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