Bullpup Rifles – Are They Worth It In an AR-15 World?

image Josh Wayner for TTAG

Ah, yes, the bullpup rifle. So many manufacturers have tried it, but so few have succeeded. The bullpup is something of an enigma to many shooters and rightfully so. Today we are going to be talking all things bullpup, from what you can expect to what you need to know to use one correctly.

The general description of a bullpup is a rifle that has an action located behind the grip and trigger. This usually places the bolt directly below the shooter’s cheek when the gun is mounted. The main benefit to the rear-loading bullpup configuration is that it can house a full (legal) barrel length in a more compact overall package.

Most bullpups are right at the legal minimum overall length of 26 inches. They fall into the same rough length class as most military submachine guns.

The first thing to know about bullpups is that they are compromises. They tend to be overpriced and fail to deliver in a number of departments that one would expect a modern rifle to excel in.

I have fired just about all the modern bullpups including the semi-automatic IWI Tavor X95 (seen above), to the classic Austrian Steyr AUG, the bolt-action Desert Tech Stealth Recon Scout (SRS), and Kel-Tec KSG shotgun. I can sum up my experience with the entire bullpup concept as disappointingly underwhelming.

The bullpup design offers, at least in my opinion, very few advantages to the modern shooter. Some of the least accurate modern rifles I have fired have been bullpups. I’ve shot some that couldn’t hold 5 inches at 100 yards, which is appalling for a $1,800+ gun.

I recently fired the new SIG SAUER MPX Copperhead with a 3.5” barrel chambered in 9mm that grouped better at 100 yards than some of the 5.56 bullpups I’ve tested over the years.

With lots of good AR-15 pistols and braces on the market, bullpups lose some of the compactness argument. (image Josh Wayner for TTAG)

The only truly accurate bullpup I’ve used were the Desert Tech SRS A1 bolt action rifles. The gun was 26 inches long and had a 16-inch chambered barrel in .308 Winchester.

The rifle was a lights-out tack driver that just kept going and going. The only problem was, the price tag was over $4,000. Without an optic.

While it performed extremely well, the damn thing was about $2,500 too expensive to justify the short length. Most 16-inch bolt actions with a folding stock come in at about 26” overall length anyway and you won’t have to use all the proprietary parts the SRS uses.

Bullpups are generally more expensive than their traditional counterparts. I get asked why all the time and the answer is that there’s more that goes into making them tick.

The reason we have $450 AR-15 rifles today is because they are an open-source design and the market is saturated. Most bullpups don’t survive in the market for very long, have hard-to-find parts, and appeal to a small, niche audience. Since the designs are proprietary and protected, the ability to reduce cost through widespread manufacturing isn’t there.

The advantages of a bullpup essentially center on its compact form factor. They work well in close quarters situations like home defense. But that compactness comes at a price.

Barrels rarely free-float. Triggers are usually mushy and long, sometimes comparable to a double-action revolver. The inherent accuracy just isn’t there for the most part. The logic bullpup fans try to use is that they get extra velocity in a close quarters scenario, but that’s pretty weak considering that a 10.5” AR pistol in 5.56mm doesn’t lose much to a 16” bullpup at 200 yards and in, but is certainly going to be more accurate and easier to handle.

The ergonomic situation with most bullpups is a challenge. I’d describe many as ungainly and thick with a rearward center of gravity. This is something bullpup enthusiasts like to point out is a good thing, but I don’t think it is due to the fact that the guns are harder to point and awkward to shoulder quickly.

Then there’s the whole ejection port situation. Because of the location the port close to the butt (i.e., TAVOR SAR), they can launch hot brass into your body depending on whether you’re left or right handed. Others, like the FN PS90 avoid this with downward or even forward ejection (FS2000) of spent brass.

The bullpups’ small size is great in confined areas, but I find them hard to aim precisely due to the fact that the support arm is always tucked in because of how short most bullpup forends are.

So what do you get when you spend about $2,000 on a relatively inaccurate, poorly balanced rifle? Well, if you think I hate bullpups, you’d be wrong. The X95 is one of my favorite rifles in .300 Blackout. It’s an exceptional rifle for what it is.

But if you try to make a bullpup a match gun, you’ll be disappointed. The design of a semi-auto bullpup just won’t let you get there. To enjoy the bullpup design, you’ll need to shake off the American idea of marksmanship and look at how our contemporaries see their native guns.

The idea of ‘match grade’ service rifles is sort of an American thing and it is the reason we have such a long history and tradition of marksmanship in both civilian and military circles. The ability of the US soldier to hit individual targets with his rifle has been a hallmark of the American way of fighting. It was a trait that was seen as cowardly by our enemies in the Revolutionary War and became something to be feared in every war thereafter.

Europeans, and by default their former colonies and created states, have struggled to grasp the culture of marksmanship that we’re so fond of. As a result, most bullpups are not designed with accuracy being the first consideration. The British SA80 and FAMAS from France are examples of this type of rifle in current NATO service.

The Israeli X95 is a great gun, probably the very best bullpup ever made, and even it fails to deliver acceptable accuracy at most ranges. I have fired both the 5.56mm NATO and 300 BLK versions. These are not long-range or sniper rifles. They’re best inside of 200 yards on man-sized targets. Compare this to many AR rifles in the same price range, where I have been able to fire at 600+ yards with minimal prep right out of the box.

image Josh Wayner for TTAG

When it comes to best practices with your bullpup, I have a few recommendations. The first of these is to replace the factory trigger with a new trigger group. The triggers on most bullpups leave a lot to be desired and a good American upgrade makes a huge difference.

The second thing is magazine size. I find 30-round mags awkward in a bullpup as it makes them very butt-heavy. Twenty-round mags are where it’s at for me, as you can get prone without running the risk of bottoming out the magazine on the ground.

Lastly, I think a reflex sight or something similar works best on a bullpup. I have shot them with magnified optics and find it to be clumsy at best.

Today’s market is heavily saturated with a lot of good guns. You can buy an AR-15 for almost nothing these days to the point where there is almost no excuse to not have one. And then there’s the proliferation of AR pistols and braces that cut into the bullpup’s size selling point.

The bullpup market has always been a niche and limited. Most shooters won’t ever own or shoot one, but they are fun and worth it if you go in with the right expectations.

comments

  1. avatar KarlB says:

    Let’s face it, one of the main problems with a bullpup is that it will make the shooter look European.

  2. avatar Timothy Toroian says:

    The bullpup is great for military or law enforcement use involving fighting from or exiting vehicles including aircraft Their efficacy otherwise is debatable.

  3. avatar NORDNEG says:

    I agree & disagree with you on a couple of things I have noticed about the bullpup,,, first, the Israelis make outstanding weapons,,, second, I have two bullpup style shotguns, no rifles, the KEL TEK KSG I have is customized, handles well, reliable, & deadly, with slugs & buck shot, reaches out there quite a ways,,, my favorite by far, thirdly, my UTAH 12ga is a true style bullpup, looks cool, shoots well, I like the shot shell selection mechanism,,, only problem for me is, fully loaded with extra rounds on the sling, it is very heavy,,, .

  4. avatar TX223 says:

    “The ability of the US soldier to hit individual targets with his rifle has been a hallmark of the American way of fighting.”
    Best line in the entire article.

    A precision bull pup is possible, just no one has pulled it off yet in a basic combat rifle. To justify their existence it needs to be done, otherwise it’s no more effective in battle than an M4, and heavier.
    The M-16 family of rifles have the advantage of being the quickest battlefield rifle to reload. That’s the big life saver of using a rifle with a magazine well forward of the pistol grip.
    If bullpups had a precision effective range of 600-800 yards, it would be worth it on a battlefield where you’re clearing houses and shooting from vehicles to engaging longer range targets. CQB + Long Range Precision.
    But slower reloads, and you have to smell your armpit when you reload…

    1. avatar barnbwt says:

      The MDR is 1-2MOA gun, the RDB 2-3 (and with a Kel Tec barrel), the RFB 1.5-2MOA.

      That’s plenty good for anything but punching paper at the supersonic range of 5.56 or 308.

    2. avatar tdiinva says:

      If the US Army was really interested in maintaining the traditional standard of marksmanship they would not be using the M-4. A 5.56 round fired from a 14.5″ barrel has about the same muzzle energy and accuracy of the M1/ME carbine.

      1. avatar tdiinva says:

        ..M1/M2 carbine …

      2. avatar Gadsden says:

        Not trying to knock you but do you have some data on that one? I was curious by what you posted and did a quick search, and 5.56 still has 1,000 more FPS out of a 14in barrel then .30 carbine out of an 18in barrel.

        1. avatar tdiinva says:

          Ballistics by the Inch.

          http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/223rifle.html

          It’s approximate but it’s close enough.

          SLA Marshall’s bad analysis is responsible for the M2’s bad reputation for effectiveness. He interviewed a lot of rear area or non infantry types who sprayed and prayed. Trained infantry used semiautomatic fire and were accurate out to 300 yards.

        2. avatar TP11 says:

          It’s not about fps, but kinetic energy. A 30 cal won’t be as fast as a .223 at any distance, but that’s because they pack much heavier bullets than .223. Educate yourself and decide which you’d least rather want to get hit with, which is the ultimate criteria.

  5. avatar Gadsden says:

    I think that’s a fair assessment. I want to like bullpups and have owned two, but ended up selling them. I actually do wish I would’ve kept the fs2000 just for fun and because they stopped making them. It was a pretty good gun.

    1. avatar ‘liljoe says:

      But a beast to takedown and put back together 🙂

      I’ve got a few bull pups because I think they are cool… no other reason needed

  6. avatar barnbwt says:

    Kel Tec RDB noticeably absent from the author’s experiences…

    1. avatar Wild Bill says:

      Kel Tec has a less than steller reputation which is well deserved. They are definitely a company I am not willing to risk my money on. If you get a good one it’s great. If you get one of the “we skimmed through QC” ones then you have a streaming pile of garbage. Not taking a chance with my money of getting latter.

      1. avatar barnbwt says:

        Yeah, I’m not talking about their handguns, I’m talking about the RDB. By any measure, it’s a distinct ‘step up’ in quality from their other stuff. It directly addresses practically all the issues the author had (including accuracy, at least in my case; it’s a non-floated barrel, but so long as you aren’t leaning hard on a bipod, I’ve had no particular problems reaching out 300yds, others to 500). That is why I think no discussion of bipods’ viability is complete without addressing the RDB; KT really knocked it out of the park. The closest alternatives are all ~2000$ guns, so logistically difficult for one person to review & compare.

        1. avatar ToddC says:

          I just got back from the range and my millennial buddy had his snowflake RDB along. He was explaining the feature of this masterpiece of modern engineering where you can finely tune the gas system for each type of ammunition one may fire. Unfortunately he didn’t have any of the correct ammo on hand and didn’t want to tune the rifle to the current bucket ‘o bullets because that’s a PITA. So the RDB ran like a British sports car, which is to say he spent more time disassembling and reassembling it than actually shooting it. I don’t even know if switching ammo was the problem.

        2. avatar barnbwt says:

          Somehow, I don’t feel the need to respond with a fake story supporting my argument…

  7. avatar strych9 says:

    A timely article. My wife was eyeballing an AUG last week. I told her to let me find one she can shoot before she considers getting her own.

    She didn’t get it until I reminded her that while it looks like it should fit her body quite well, she has found the AR doesn’t work as well for her as the Mini-14 which handles superbly for her.

    Of course she then immediately asks about a Krink with a paratrooper stock. Damnit woman!

    1. avatar Ironhead says:

      Sounds like you got a good one there.

    2. avatar edward kenway's ghost says:

      Palmetto State Armory AK-V 9mm and AK-P in 7.62×39. Check ’em out.

      1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

        was hoping the akv would not be blowback. they should not call it a clone.

  8. avatar tdiinva says:

    The purpose of the Bullpup was to configure a full sized barrel in package that makes it easier to exit a modern Infantry Fighting Vehicle like the Bradley. We chose to create a traditional carbine variant of an infantry rifle. In theory the Bullpup should be a more effective rifle. The size factor is less important for non military applications.

    1. avatar rt66paul says:

      The size factor is important for a defense rifle that you may have to use in/out of your home, some other building, or hiding out from bad guys in rocky terrain or thick wooded areas. You can have it on a single point, 2 point or even 3 point strap, someone of even pre-teen size could carry it and use it.

    2. avatar Danny Griffin says:

      I thought bullpups came into favor when the British were fighting the IRA/PIRA in houses/close quarters.

      1. avatar tdiinva says:

        It would surprise me but the switch to the M4 was drive by the introduction to Bradley which is more cramped than the M113.

        1. avatar Ragnar says:

          The 82nd Infantry (Airborne) was also a driving factor. The M-4 was far more manageable than the M16A2 for rigging and jumping.

          There was a universal need throughout the U.S. military for a more compact personal weapon. This did not negate the need for a full length rifle, it just gave the option for having the right tool for the job. Bullpups never made the grade for the reasons outlined by the author.

        2. avatar tdiinva says:

          There were multiple factors but there were more mech infantry units when the requirements for the carbine was written. The Bradley was the primary driver. You do not let 10% of infantry drives the requirement for the rest of the force. The logistics train for the M4 could have been built on the M16.

  9. avatar Wild Bill says:

    If you can make a bull pup that is affordable I will be a bit more interested. $1500-2000 for a X95 or an AUG is well beyond what I am willing to spend on something that other than size doesn’t do anything my ar15 can’t.

    1. avatar jwm says:

      Word. I’m not a real fan of the AR(living in CA that’s probably best) but I acknowledge that for 450-600 bucks you can get a weapon that will work good enough for most of our needs. Spending 2-3 times that, or more, for a rifle that is clumsy and less accurate doesn’t make a lot of sense.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        You can always make up for the bullpup’s shortfalls with a $5000 1911 or a Korth revolver.

        I’ll show myself out.

        1. avatar jwm says:

          No need. I trip the lever, the trapdoor opens and you drop into the crocodile pit.

        2. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

          That’s crocodile abuse… 😉

        3. avatar jwm says:

          The PETA people don’t protest me anymore. Not since I tripped the lever on them last time.

          You should see my vet bills. Those damn crocs have a better union than I ever had.

          I would like to treat them, though. I hear they like fat possum. Have you seen any around here?

        4. avatar strych9 says:

          If you can’t find any possums just feed the crocs to some largish spiders.

      2. avatar SoCalJack says:

        JWM, have you considered Kel-Tec’s RDB-C (bull-pup, adjustable LOP, $1k) or SU-16 (folds in half, stores 2 10 rd mags in the stock, $600)? Both are featureless by design for CA compliance. Not for compitition use, but great for HD, SHTF, plinking. Both take AR mags. I’ve consider these as alternatives to another AR15 or bullpup.

        1. avatar jwm says:

          I have looked at the SU16. It was the only one I’d seen in my area. At the time I still had my sks. Big regret getting rid of that sks. If I see another su16 I’ll buy it.

          Just today I saw one of the kel tec bullpup shotguns at a big 5. Over a grand. Thank god I’m flush with shotgun or I’d have been tempted.

          I’m road tripping out of state soon. I know it will break my heart but I’m going to check out a couple of out of state gun stores while I’m traveling. May even hit up another machine gun rental place. That’s fun with a gun.

    2. avatar barnbwt says:

      The RDB is around 700$ these days. Of course, many still complain that it’s not already as cheap as a PSA AR15, but that price for a piston 556 is good by any measure. The rest tend to complain about Kel Tec for the typical reasons, whether they apply to this particular gun or not.

      1. avatar Wild Bill says:

        Reputations are earned. Just saying.

        1. avatar barnbwt says:

          Read your original post. Is 700$ “affordable?” That’s what you said you would be interested in.

          Lemme guess, another excuse to not be interested in “X” bullpup?

  10. avatar Cadeyrn says:

    The author’s points are valid for the Steyr A3. Was okay until I replaced trigger group and action lever so I wouldn’t bark my knuckles on the sight base. Then it became good. A brass catcher is a nice addition as it flings cases literally everywhere. But together these add a few hundred bucks to a gun that isn’t particularly cheap to begin with.

    The original military trigger design was originally set to fire semi-auto with a partial pull and went to full auto with a full pull, no adjusting the giggle switch. So at least part of the issue is understandable.

    But a proprietary magazine design or charging $400+ to get a stock that takes standard NATO mags is really off-putting. The only upside is nobody tries to borrow your mags but you can’t snag a full one from them either.

    1. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

      The upside is, if you ever come into an inheritance, for 20 grand or so, that select-fire trigger group is a drop-in part… 😉

  11. avatar Brian says:

    I never once considered a bullpup rifle to be a long distance shooter, and I don’t think they ever were meant to be either. It was mentioned they are good for maneuvering around in tight spaces, and I’m pretty sure that’s what they’re designed for.
    People talk about getting a rifle/shotgun yanked away from the owner due to the length, kinda hard to grab a rifle/shotgun that is 95% up against the owner’s body.

    1. avatar barnbwt says:

      Accuracy shooting is all people do at the gun-range, though –that’s why it gets so much emphasis 😉

      1. avatar Brian says:

        Accuracy out to 50~100 yards would be about the furthest I’d worry about with bullpups. If I wanted something with 2 mile accuracy(which people on here seem to want out of a bullpup), I’d look at something meant for that, not a close quarters firearm.

  12. avatar enuf says:

    Always thought the idea was a close quarters battle weapon, not a 600 yard blow the towels off the Taliban’s haeds in Afbadassistan.

    They are very cool looking, futuristic guns. Would enjoy owning some in that imaginary world where I can afford an entire wing on my house housing nothing but my personal statement on the world’s most interesting firearm collection. Not the biggest, just the most interesting. To me that is, just for me.

    Not having a huge pile of cash, guess I’ll just have to pass on this plan.

  13. avatar Ark says:

    Bullpups are rightfully headed for the dustbin of history. They do everything worse at 3x the cost.

  14. avatar Roadking says:

    Try the DP-12. 12 Gauge 16 round double barrel pump.
    2 shots per pump. First pull right barrel, reset trigger then left barrel. Separate tube mag for each barrel, so you can do slug, 00. Machined aluminum receiver, and I have put everything through it, and not one FTF or jam. Made by Standard Manufacturing who is owned by Connecticut shotgun. Theyale some high end shotguns. Standard has branched out, and make a high end SAA, a 1911, AR, mag fed 12G, and even a Tommy gun.
    The following artical/review is incorrect on what barrel fires first. It is the right not the left. That is if you looking down the right end.

    https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/dp-12-review-a-functional-double-barrel-bullpup/

  15. avatar Roadking says:

    When is an edit function going to be added for when my phone likes to not spell check?

    1. avatar Danny Griffin says:

      Edit function exists, just click the right box when you enter your comment.

  16. avatar Michael says:

    Steyr AUG…no problem. -30-

  17. avatar M1Lou says:

    I’m own a few bullpups, a Tavor SAR, FS2000, and PS90. The Tavor and FS2000 are 1.5-2MOA guns with good ammo. I don’t think I can get them to shoot sub MOA, even with handloads. I’ve never shot the PS90 out to 100 yards, but it seems to be decently accurate at the ranges I would use it at.

    I haven’t shot any other bullups except for a Saiga-12 with the Kushnapup stock. I got rid of that after I bought a Vepr 12.

    I’ve built quite a few AR pistols and the big negative with them is the shorter barrel makes them a lot louder. I do have some cans now, but not all of them get a can as I don’t have enough to go around yet. My 300BLK pistol of course gets a can, because I want to shoot it with subs. Most of these pistols will shoot as well or better than the Tavor or FS2000 and are significantly cheaper. They are also a few lbs lighter and you can concealed carry them loaded in your vehicle in a lot of states. If the RDB is reliable, I think it might be a winner. The price and features are better than the Tavor and FS2000. I know it’s lighter than the Tavor which would make it nicer to pack around.

    I have a braced CZ Scorpion EVO and it is actually more compact and handier than my PS90 due to the PS90 having that hideous 16″ barrel. If I SBR it, then it’s a fairly close fight. Now it falls under the NFA and becomes a bigger pain in the ass than an pistol to own. I think the CZ still wins out due to having regular mags that are easier to put into pouches and shoots a much cheaper round. But, you can’t reenact Stargate SG-1 without a PS90.

    1. avatar SoCalJack says:

      I only have a Tavor, but it has a grip fin because I live in CA. I shoot it better than any of my long guns; got used to the Tavor trigger. I recently rented a PS90 when I was in Austin this year, did a full auto mag dump, I had the biggest grin. I envy you folks living in free states.

  18. avatar Victoryman says:

    Some very interesting comments here, but I have a question. Isn’t a bullpup like the TAVOR basically for “Close work, ” not 200-300 yard shooting for accuracy?

  19. avatar Richard Steven Hack says:

    I don’t think the bullpup was ever intended to be a sniper rifle. And most soldiers can’t hit anything beyond 200-300 yards anyway. So what’s the point of complaining about the accuracy? It’s the same with AK’s. You can go out to 600 yards with an AK – just ask Robski. That’s more than enough for realistic combat applications.

    The advantage of bullpups is the maneuverability – although if the laws allowed short-barreled AR rifles for civilians that would be a moot point. The AR “pistol” is pretty much the same thing, however. On the other hand, I don’t really see the point of an AR “pistol” except to get around the SBR laws. I can’t see the pistol “brace” being as good as a real stock for accuracy – but I’ve never used on so I may be wrong. So that leaves the bullpup as the only real “short” rifle.

    As for the expense, well, comparing a cheap AR to an expensive bullpup seems beside the point as long as bullpups are considered a “niche market”, they’ll continue to be expensive. The AR is a Volkswagen, the bullpup is a Mercedes in terms of market share. if not actual value equation.

    Anyone who thinks bullpups will “go away” are deluding themselves. But they’ll never take over the market either until someone makes a relatively cheap one which is ambidextrous and extremely accurate – which is kind of a contradiction in terms, so far at least.

    I like ’em, though, for the looks and maneuverability.

    1. avatar Danny Griffin says:

      I don’t really see the point of an AR “pistol”

      You can carry a loaded AR15 pistol in your car.

  20. avatar Aaron says:

    No.

    Next question.

  21. avatar ToddC says:

    $2,000 gets you an AR pistol with an Echo trigger (or match-grade trigger of your choice) and a can, with money left over for optics.

  22. avatar Sterling says:

    AR pistol with an arm strap doesn’t make for good aiming or muzzle flash, can get one cheap and in 480 socom for a little more but a 300 blackout IWI can hunt and provide home defense without being unwieldy or having a three foot muzzle flash.

    1. avatar Newshawk says:

      How about an AR pistol in 300 BLK? You may not be able to hunt as effectively with a 8-10 in. barrel but you have an effective CQB weapon in the AR platform without the flash/fireball.

  23. avatar SoCalJack says:

    Yes absolutely, if you have the money, shoot it at least once a month and it makes you happy. I bought my Tavor SAR 7 years ago and it gets the most trigger time out of all my rifles and that’s with zero malfunctions. IMO, even though it’s design came out 15+ years ago, I think it still looks cool. I have gotten my money’s worth.

  24. avatar sound awake says:

    10.5 ar pistol for me please chambered in 5.56
    i have $800 in mine with 2 moa red dot optic 45 degree sights and 350 lumen streamlight
    its shoots less than 2 moa at 100 yards and less than 3 moa out to 300 yards with m855
    and the same spare parts kit that services my 4 other ar pattern rifles services this weapon too
    its a no brainer

  25. avatar semperfi1981 says:

    I have a Tavor x95. I am highly trained with the ar platform, and own at least 10 in various configurations, including ar pistols. However, The Tavor is my go-to house defense weapon. It is sbr length with a 16 inch barrel. In the marine corps, I was taught to reach out and touch you at 500 yards with the m4, open sights.
    Can the Tavor do this? I don’t care.
    no room or hallway in my house is 500 yards long.

  26. avatar The Grey Man says:

    I’ll stick with my double barrel shotgun…. Joe Biden

  27. avatar squiros says:

    you say that it has many disadvantages – the accuracy and the shouldering. but maybe that’s not a problem with a bullpup, but both disadvantages are a problem with the shooter. You are less accurate because it shoulders poorly for You.
    it shoulders better for almost everyone else. that is – it can be fired accurately with one hand from people who have no athletic background. maybe the author simply needs to get in shape.
    also, weight is also a serious consideration. if you were to need to stay ready in a military environment, an 8 lb gun with a small lever weighs much less than a 4 lbs gun with a long lever. saying it isn’t good to shoulder is simply wrong from a weight perspective. that is, if you weren’t able to rely on your bench rest to take most of the weight.
    also you’re using a military rifle from the perspective of a match gun. which really makes no sense. terminal ballistics are incredibly important in real life. there were and are many confrontations where the longer barrel and longer range are insurmountable advantages. this is especially true in terms of bullet adjustment. a short barrel will have less energy and more drop sooner. this accuracy at variable ranges is about the same if you don’t know the range of what you’re shooting at. in a 3 gun where they tell you, it’s probably not a big deal. for real use, the massive bullet drop of a short barrel exceeds the accuracy loss of a bullpup. the author even admits targets are at known distances. this is not true in real life.

  28. avatar JW says:

    Not if you are trying to get the most utility for your money.

    If, however, you are trying to get the most awesome for your money… 🙂

  29. Love me my Steyr Aug!
    Designed in the 1970’s and still looks like a futuristic space blaster.
    The Aug mag is by far the best magazine ever designed.
    AR people should be asking why their AR doesn’t take Aug mags!
    https://imgur.com/XYOdPR7

  30. avatar Greg says:

    Bullpups are fun but I’d grab an AR first. Reciprocating charging handles need to go too.

  31. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

    Not crazy about bullpups either. If it’s Israli, give me a Galil. Carried me through a couple of tough situations. But, if I had to carry a bullpup, it would be a Tavor.

  32. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

    And take damn near anything over anything over an anything over an AR-15.

  33. avatar semperfi1981 says:

    Damn near anything over an AR-15?

    conflicts where AR-15 action rifles used:
    M16 rifle

    Vietnam War
    Laotian Civil War
    Guatemalan Civil War
    Dominican Civil War
    Cambodian Civil War
    The Troubles
    Yom Kippur War
    Cambodian–Vietnamese War
    Communist insurgency in Malaysia (1968–89)
    Lebanese Civil War
    Sandinista Revolution
    Salvadoran Civil War
    Falklands War
    1982 Lebanon War
    Invasion of Grenada
    South Lebanon conflict (1985–2000)
    Bougainville Civil War
    United States invasion of Panama
    Oka Crisis
    Persian Gulf War
    Yugoslav Wars
    1992 Bosnian War
    Somali Civil War
    Operation Deny Flight
    Operation Joint Endeavor
    Nepalese Civil War
    Cenepa War
    1996 Gangneung submarine infiltration incident
    1998 Kosovo War
    War in Afghanistan
    Iraq War
    2006 Lebanon War
    Colombian Armed Conflict
    Mexican Drug War
    2010 Rio de Janeiro Security Crisis
    Syrian civil war
    Gaza–Israel conflict
    2013 Lahad Datu standoff
    2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine
    Iraq War (2014–present)

    CAR-15

    Vietnam War
    Laotian Civil War
    Cambodian Civil War
    The Troubles
    Yom Kippur War
    Salvadoran Civil War
    Falklands War
    1982 Lebanon War
    Invasion of Grenada
    United States invasion of Panama
    Persian Gulf War
    Yugoslav Wars
    Somali Civil War
    Operation Deny Flight
    Operation Joint Endeavor
    1998 Kosovo War
    War in Afghanistan
    Iraq War
    2006 Lebanon War
    Colombian Armed Conflict
    Mexican Drug War
    Gaza–Israel conflict

    M4 carbine

    1998 Kosovo war
    War in Afghanistan (2001–2014)
    War in Iraq (2003–2011)
    2006 Lebanon war
    Mexican Drug War
    Gaza War
    2010 Rio de Janeiro Security Crisis
    Colombian Armed Conflict
    Operation Enduring Freedom
    2008 Russo-Georgian war
    Syrian civil war
    Battle of Arsal
    2013 Lahad Datu standoff[1]

    Tell me, Gadsden, what works better or has been vetted more stringently?

  34. avatar Roman of Texas says:

    THe amount of people complaining here about 2000k on a rifle amazes me. I love bullpups (got the MDR, Tavor, X95, AUG, RFB, RDB, FAMAS, PS90, and an FS2000), and those all run about 2k (except for the RDB, 700 on classic). Y’all need better paying jobs.

  35. avatar semperferfi1981 says:

    Better paying jobs, or a perspective. I don’t drink or smoke but my uncle spends more than 2k a year in cigarettes and various adult beverages a year. My Tavor X95 was a gift from my wife; That is a lottery win in itself when you have a wife that buys you weapons instead of you hiding your purchase. The fact of the matter is the Ar15 is a proven combat design and there is no denying it. Is my tavor better? specialized in its role, I suppose My Tavor is perfect for my home defense purpose because :
    short and maneuverable
    non-reciprocating charging handle
    takes ar15 mags
    a long stroke piston system similar to AK
    excellent one-handed maneuverability
    super reliable
    easy disassembly
    16 inch barrel in SBR package giving full power to the 556 round
    can be purchased in .308
    vetted by the dusty, sandy conditions of the Israeli armed forces
    cons:
    mag changes different but not terrible, so you have to step outside your AR15/G.I. comfort zone
    long range not as spectacular vs Ar15, but good enough for 1-300 yards
    ejection had to be modified (I am a lefty)
    parts not as abundant (but I own several ar15s all colt so I have plenty of parts for that platform
    In the military, I learned the right tool/weapon for the right mission. My mission now is to be armed for close quarters battle for home invaders, and the tavor is just the right way to go. Shotguns are also nice (I have 870, mossberg, benelli,) but I want capacity, power and range. My wife can also handle the Tavor with no problem if needed. Being a retired Police officer, I have seen my share of home invaders and things that go bump in the night, reports taken from too many victims to count. Your are either a lamb or a lion. You choose…

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