An HK P7 and Communism: Everyday Carry Pocket Dump of the Day

So…it isn’t the HK P7 that takes center stage this time it’s the Big Black Book of Communism. If you’re thinking this is some sort of how-to guide, it isn’t. It’s a comprehensive work by a group of authors who wanted to get the truth about communism out there. The result was this book which is packed with the gritty realities of communism from massacres to famines to bread lines to starvation.

No, this isn’t exactly gun reality…or is it? How do you think our rights would change if the United States was ruled by communists or…let’s say, socialists?

comments

  1. avatar strych9 says:

    If the Soviet Constitution is any guide we’d have a lot more rights numerically but none that truly mattered and the ones we did have would be poorly provided for.

  2. avatar anarchyst says:

    Another book on the origin of communism is “Two Hundred Years Together” by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, Russia’s author laureate.
    Presently, this book is not available in English as it names the originators and enforcers of Russian communism. Hint: It wasn’t the Russians that supported and embraced communism and its Bolshevik inventors…

    1. avatar Phil LA says:

      WW1 Germans.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        Anarchyst is a fan of hitler. My guess he’s talking about dem ebil jooz.

    2. It is indeed available in English, and in multiple formats, at the Internet Archive. HTML5 scan.

      1. avatar Cloudbuster says:

        The version on archive.org is incomplete. It has had chapters 2, 3, 7-12 and 15 deleted.

        1. avatar Cloudbuster says:

          Make that 6-12

    3. avatar Enuf says:

      The Russians never achieved Communism or even its precursor, Socialism. No country has ever achieved either of those utopian wet dreams precisely because of the built-in failure mechanisms within them. To make all persons equal in an economic sense you must resist the human desire to do something for oneself, to have a dream or an idea and pursue it.

      Mere minutes into any Socialist or Communist “People’s Revolution”, the need to crush the will of the people is always realized. Thus the millions of murders, the poverty, the purges, the cultural revolutions, the takeover by dictators, all of it.

      1. avatar rt66paul says:

        Even with all the laws making people equal, Russian society was divided into many classes. Even Jewish society was divided very strongly, just as it was in pre-WWII Germany. Many worked in the sciences, but they were a different class than medical workers or military.
        I worked with many Jews after the soviet Union was allowing them to leave. They were very prejudiced against each other, especially those of mixed marriage(Jewish/Christian). They talked down other ethnic groups within the Soviet Union. They were more outspoken about each other, other communists that came to the USSR from Cuba/Asia/Africa, than any redneck I ever met.

    4. avatar Miner49er says:

      Ain’t no such thing as true communism, it always proves to be authoritarianism in most cases. Putin is a good example of an authoritarian smoothly moving from communism to democracy without any change in oppression.

      And communism does not have a monopoly on massacres or depression, just ask the 52 million native peoples who lived in the Americas before the Catholic Church invasion in 1492. Or look at the great depression brought to us by Republicans Calvin Coolidge and Herbert Hoover, no commies there just crony capitalism like we have today.

  3. avatar Michael says:

    A good number of our states have already been taken over without a shot being fired. There is an unmistakable flavor of pent up frenzy in the air. We have, as a people, been divided. Both sides have fallen short in the commitments they have made to their respective groups of the self-styled disenfranchised. After these groups act. It’s not going to be a case of who was right. It’s going to be a case of what and who are left, if anything. -30-

  4. avatar Enuf says:

    The HK P7 is a curious design. The gas piston and the cocker-decocker mechanism being the forward portion of the grip, making for a unique grip safety.

    The price though is insane. Could buy ten single stack 9mm’s for the same cash.

    1. avatar Jeremy D. says:

      Everybody is talking about communism, i just wanted to enjoy the P7

  5. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    The Black Book of Communism was originally published in 1997, and as mentioned above, includes pieces by a bunch of expert authors on various nations’ flirtations with communism.

    The book adds up the piles of bodies stacked up in the various communist countries over the years, with China holding the faraway lead. The total when the book was published was a bit over 90 million, but we can safely increases that number now.

    This book as as powerful a tool in taking on the idiot academics who keep backing communism as Conquest’s “Harvest of Sorrow,” a book originally published in the 1960’s that detailed the communist famines and their death tolls.

  6. avatar Manse Jolly says:

    There is a conflict coming IMO. Hopefully I will have died of old age by then. (couple of decades left for me and thats ok.)

    For those still around, you get to witness and even participate in the bloodiest purge of the ‘Other’ this planet has ever seen. During the War for Southern Independence it’s been estimated by various sources that anywhere from 2% to 7% of the population died from a host of factors including starvation, disease, battle ect.

    Fast forward to the 21st Century and the technology that can be brought to any ground fight.

    Eventually, whether it be about the economy, younger people embracing Socialism, or Communism, Abortion, 2A Rights and/or everything that divides us as a people.

    We are One People out of many no longer. E Pluribus Unum

    One day one side is going to say “screw it” and start shooting…..and if it’s one thing we are really good at…It’s killing each other. The rest of the world got nothing on us when it comes to cleansing, ethnic or otherwise.

    I’ve long held the belief we were on a really bad path….just never expressed it before…..

    1. avatar jram01 says:

      “I’ve long held the belief we were on a really bad path….just never expressed it before…..”

      The “bad path” is our lying, cheating. delay and deny Commie Trump. He wants to be Putin’s Right-Hand Man (VP?). The only member of his family I really feel sorry for is his youngest Son. You only see him at Trump rallies or getting on and off the Presidential plane. You look at the kid’s face and all you see is that (WTF) look, as if to say, “What the hell am I doing here.” Bet he just can’t wait to become of age and say “I’m getting the hell outta here and away from this goofy family of mine. Just a matter of time the Kid is going to see his whole family in prison from the Outside – In.” What’st that saying?

      ” LOCK THEM UP” !!!!!!!!!!” LOCK THEM UP”!!!!!!!!!!!!” LOCK THEM UP” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”.
      That sounds GREAT.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        Bullshit.

        1. avatar Made in America says:

          Yeah jram01 , your right and so are you JWM. Trump is BULLSHIT and much more. Lock that Commie up. I want to see him in an orange pair of coveralls to match his orange face.

      2. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

        You have this exactly opposite. We have been the aggressors against Russia and the communists there have been gone for some time. The left used to love Russia, that’s how you can tell

  7. avatar Hoyden says:

    P7

    I’ll be in my bunk squeeze cocking

  8. avatar Felix says:

    I remember the looks I got coming back aboard ship during a Hong Kong visit, with a little pocket edition of Mao’s little red book. All in Chinese. I know a little about how to use a Chinese dictionary, but not the Chinese language, so it would probably take a day just to “translate” a single page. But it’s a nice little souvenier, and it pissed off the chief, so that’s ok.

    1. avatar Enuf says:

      Nothing wrong with a souvenir from the enemy. But if it was in Hong Kong, it was probably sold by a capitalist Chinese. So in a way, that’s cool too.

      Also useful to read English translations. Helps in understanding the enemy, the better to fight him.

  9. avatar Trampled Under Foot says:

    We have been ruled by a socialist. His name was Obama. P7? Fantastic pistol. Though, the P7M8 is the thinking man’s P7. Expensive? Yes, it always has been. So has the Python… Glad I have both.

    1. avatar Enuf says:

      Absolute nonsense. Nothing about Obama was Socialist.

      1. avatar Trampled Under Foot says:

        I’m sorry you were comatose for eight years. Was it a brain injury? Anyway, glad you recovered. Read up on recent history.

        1. avatar Enuf says:

          History is entirely the point. At no time did Obama promote or bring about government ownership and centralized planning of all means of production, control of wages and assignment of who gets what based upon government judgement of individual need. Had that happened, it would have been Socialism.

        2. avatar Geoff "Bring the EDIT button back, will ya, TTAG?" PR says:

          “At no time did Obama promote or bring about government ownership and centralized planning of all means of production, control of wages and assignment of who gets what based upon government judgement of individual need.”

          I guess you miss how the ‘Affordable Care Act” was structured? Centralized planning of medical care.

          Free clue – It was built to fail, and fail in such a way the masses would demand socialized health care.

          Free clue number 2 – “Medicare For All” *IS* socialized health care.

          What political party is now bleating loudly about “Medicare For All”?

          It’s the same party that rammed that shit sandwich of “Obama Care” down our throat.

          Who signed “Obama Care” into law? Obama.

          The prosecution rests…

        3. avatar possum says:

          Wasn’t very many gunn bans talked about with OObama in office, it was kinda peaceful really.

      2. avatar Trampled Under Foot says:

        Obama Care ring a bell? As close to socialized medicine as he could get. Just because he wasn’t able to achieve full blown socialism doesn’t mean he’s not a socialist.

        1. avatar Enuf says:

          There is no “Obamacare”, he told Congress to act and accepted what they delivered. That was the correct way to begin the effort, correcting Clinton’s first blunder. But after that Obama was pretty much hands-off.

          The Affordable Care Act is not Socialist. It does not shut down for-profit, capitalist-industry run health insurance, private doctors or any of it. There are no elements of Socialism in it. It is only being called that because Socialism is a bad thing (evil, in fact) and people who do not know what the hell they are blathering about need nasty words at their disposal.

          There is no such thing as partially Socialist or half Socialist. Either you have government control of all means of production, the setting of all wages, the assignment of all reward to workers or you do not. There is no industry in the USA where that is the case.

        2. avatar Geoff "Bring the EDIT button back, will ya, TTAG?" PR says:

          Obama care was designed to fail, so ‘Medicare For All” could be implemented.

          The only way to ‘Medicare For All’ can function is for private health insurance to be eliminated.

          That is exactly what is being proposed by “Medicare For All”, if you bother to read what is recently being proposed. In specific, Kamala Harris’s recent ‘town hall’ meeting where she is asked about this, and this is her reply :

          “Kamala Harris on Private Health Insurance Market: “Eliminate All Of That,” “Let’s Move On”

          https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/01/29/kamala_harris_on_private_health_insurance_market_eliminate_all_of_that_lets_move_on.html

        3. avatar Geoff "Bring the EDIT button back, will ya, TTAG?" PR says:

          Further, on what Harris said :

          “It turns out Harris was only regurgitating the actual intent of “Medicare for All” legislation. Section 801 of the Medicare for All Act specifies that “no employee benefit plan may provide benefits that duplicate payment for any items or services for which payment may be made under Medicare.” This effectively bars employers from covering workers, retirees, and their families. No more health care choice. No more competition. No more forms to fill out. You get sick, go to the doctor, and it is basically free.

          To cover the 30 million or so Americans with no health insurance, 150 million Americans would have to give up their current coverage. That is a terrible deal. Meanwhile, polls consistently find that about 70 percent of Americans with employer or union health plans like what they have. But that does not matter. The young bolsheviks will move them out. It also does not seem to matter that Medicare already faces tens of trillions of dollars of unfunded liabilities, or that it is soon to be flat out of money. This “Medicare for All” plan is like investing all of our lifetime savings in mortgage backed securities on the eve of the financial crash of 2008.”

          https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/427804-medicare-for-all-will-fail-democrats

        4. avatar Enuf says:

          The AFA was not designed to fail or to bring about Single Payer “Medicare for All”. It was designed to succeed and to avoid single payer. Single payer cannot work in the USA. Too large a population and too vast a bureaucracy for such a creation to be workable.

          Doesn’t make the AFA good, only makes it less bad than the previous status. The AFA must still fail in time because the fundamental dysfunction remains. Too complex and inefficient a system designed first to generate profit and only secondarily to deliver health care.

          What we need is something similar to the German system. Mandated and regulated but entirely delivered by private insurers in mostly (but not entirely) non-profit business models. It has worked there for over 130 years, worked so well even the damned Nazis wouldn’t mess with it. Costs are half and health care is world class.

      3. avatar Trampled Under Foot says:

        Enuf, what are you doing on a site like this? You’re not going to get any converts. And besides, you’re wrong.

        1. avatar Enuf says:

          Converts to what? My belief that the Second Amendment is simply stating the natural right of people to be able to defend themselves, their families, fellow citizens and their country with the very same weapons as any modern army? Am I trying to convert people here to believe they have the right to own anything from a pea shooter to a collection of heavy machine guns and a warehouse full of ammo to feed them all?

          Wrong about what? The definition of Socialism or Communism? Most people in the USA using those terms have not a clue what the hell it all means. That includes the idiots claiming to actually be Socialists or Communists. Most of the time I hear people trying to insult liberals by calling them socialists they sound about as ill informed and under educated as liberals trying to insult conservatives by calling them capitalists and fascists.

          Seriously, it’s like somewhere in the last thirty or forty years people stopped using insults they knew the meanings of and resorted to throwing mud pies and cow pies.

          Maybe they like the smell and the ooze of it all?

          Is that it then?

        2. avatar Geoff "Bring the EDIT button back, will ya, TTAG?" PR says:

          He can’t see it, he’s a “true believer”.

          Nothing will sink in because nothing can sink in. He believes it, and is shut down to anything else…

        3. avatar Enuf says:

          That’s right, I am a True Believer in the Second Amendment.

          More than that I am a True Believer in learning the lessons from history. Among which is that Karl Marx and the rest of his utopian dreamers handed the world two of the three worst political-social-economic concepts ever dreamed up by the mind of man. Socialism and Communism, which have been the cause of more death and suffering in modern times than even Fascism, the third really bad idea.

        4. avatar Trampled Under Foot says:

          Enuf, I have no doubt you have a textbook comprehension of the definition of socialism and communism. In fact, you sound as if you’re parroting a couple of my professors from years ago. I just believe that those, including Obama, are becoming more circumspect in achieving their goals.

        5. avatar possum says:

          . Possums ain’t got no medical and they’re still around ,

        6. avatar Miner49er says:

          America has many socialized government programs, we have a socialized judicial system where the judiciary is centralized and controlled and the people collectively pay the cost. Everything from our libraries to our bridges roadways airports tunnels ports and other facilities are socialized. I like having the library, I don’t mind paying for good schools even though my children have not been in school for 20 years I realized the benefit to society of having society pay for the education of the members of society.

          Our healthcare has been a disaster long before Obama care, just look at the other civilized countries such as Germany France Sweden Switzerland Italy Japan etc. We need to remove the profit motive from healthcare just like we need to remove the profit motive from education. It is immoral to profit from another person’s misery or ignorance, these are both functions that should be handled by society in general and not profit driven corporations.

        7. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

          Miner49er, government services are in no way socialism. You really need to look into that. You are spouting leftist talking points

  10. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    When the HK P13 came out I thought it was “the answer” until I borrowed one that was for sale and found out what a real turkey it really was. It was a high tech sheet metal pistol and very heavy for its size.

    You could not hold in the heavy grip safety very long before you had to release it and the heavy grip safety disturbed my aim as well even for a short string of only a couple of shots. The loud clickety clack when you released the grip safety would get you killed in a deadly encounter if someone had broke into your home. It literally told the bad guy where you were even if you were hiding from him out of sight.

    This turkey heated up so hot because of the cursed gas system that it was actually cooking the pistol which had to have a plastic gas shield to keep you from burning the shit out of your shooting hand. The overheating factor led to short barrel life as well.

    It often malfunctioned if the proper ammo was not used because it was “powder pressure sensitive” and the action would open prematurely if the wrong ammo was used creating horrendous recoil that would soon destroy the gun.

    This turkey was also noted for breaking firing pins which actually got a few cops killed that used it.

    The gun also caused numerous accidents because when the gun was drawn under pressure the natural inclination was to get the gun in a death grip which deactivated the grip safety. It was really bad on the original guns that had a light pressure grip safety so HK tried to put a band-aid on a gladiatorial wound by making the grip safety much heavier to deactivate but the gun still had plenty of unwanted accidental discharges.

    It was expensive because it was German made and had no advantage over other designs of the day and plenty of disadvantages that were the result of its gas design.

    As one can already guess I declined to buy the gun I borrowed once I found out how bad it really was although looking back on it the purchase would have been a good investment but I never would have carried it or kept it by my bedside. That would have been suicide if I would ever have had to use it. It was and is nothing more than a gimmick pistol and a curiosity in the development of the semi-auto pistol. If you are well heeled with lots of cash to burn its a nice conversation piece on “show and tell days” and has “snob appeal” because of its high price back then and now but its certainly not a serious piece to carry or rely on.

    I might add I have tested other “gas operated pistols” and never found one the equal in reliability of the Colt/Browning designs.

    1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

      “That would have been suicide if I would ever have had to use it.”

      well, there are other uses of course, but i will join you in your regerts.

    2. avatar D says:

      It’s one of the coolest designs ever, but I would not carry one for the reasons you stated.

    3. avatar Trampled Under Foot says:

      Wow! Where to begin? The grip safety is folded sheet metal, but the rest is milled steel. Don’t understand the issue since so many pistols today are half plastic. You couldn’t hold the grip very long? My wife and children never had a problem. Neither did anyone else that shot any of the P7M8s I have owned. Maybe if you squeezed the old tennis ball a little more? The safety does make noise when you engage/release it. Forgive me, but I had to laugh when you said it could get me killed. You see, the next thing thing the bad guy is going to hear after “click” is “bang.” No matter what I’m shooting he’s going to know I’m there. The heat thing was an issue, but only for the trigger finger. Not the hand and certainly not for the barrel. In fact the barrel has polygonal rifling which reduces friction. The heat shield on the frame inside the trigger guard eliminated this minor problem. Ammo? HK said not to use lead, non jacketed bullets. That’s all. I’ve fired thousands of rounds though three different P7s. Not one malfunction. Ever. Breaking firing pins and cops killed? Please list specific examples. I was a LE firearms instructor for 20+ years and paid attention to this kind of thing. I don’t recall a single incident. Same with the numerous unintended discharges and the “band aid.” Examples please. Expensive yes. Most quality things from Europe were and are. Priced quality scopes, a Rolex, etc. from there lately? So “snob appeal” and “show and tell days.” The last time I went off shore fishing my P7M8 was in a Galco butt pack with other EDC gear. Weapons are meant to use. “Colt/Browning designs.” It was Browning who designed most of what Colt built. Colt had nothing to do with the design. Anyway, I actually pointed a P7M8 at a bad guy once. (I carried one briefly while waiting on a 1911 to come back from Ro-Bar.) So this is not arm chair theory for me. You should also understand the P7 is not gas operated. It has a gas retarded system as opposed to a locked breech. That said, I too love the Browning 1911 design. As did Jeff Cooper. He also thought the P7 was a great pistol. Except for the caliber.

      1. avatar Trampled Under Foot says:

        Meant for Vlad Tepes.

        1. avatar Trampled Under Foot says:

          Damn, the crickets are deafening!

      2. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        Their were several police deaths and man accidental shootings. The one death that comes to mind was a cop in Maryland which was due to his firing pin breaking in a firefight. Shortly after HK actually had a recall because of that problem. Whether they ever succeeded in finally fixing it I never heard. The story was carried by Gun Week Newspaper quite a few years ago.

        And the clickty clack certainly will get you killed damn quick by alerting a criminal that someone is in the home with a gun in his hand.

        As far as ammo its a well known fact that the gun operates only on a certain gas pressure range. I personally experienced the gun I borrowed trying to beat itself to death when I used the wrong burning rate of powder in it. Other gas guns I tested like the Steyr GB had similar problems only the Steyr would often jam up if the wrong ammo was used in it.

        1. avatar Trampled Under Foot says:

          I researched what you said. I found reference to the firing pin bushing breaking, but not the firing pin. Also, all but one said the pistol continued to function. Could find no reference to LEO being killed as a result, but doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Unintended discharges are usually operator error. No fault of the weapon.

        2. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          I also forgot to mention the mushing trigger pull. I never quite new when the sear would release the striker.

          Also the troublesome gas system needs cleaned and scraped to prevent malfunctions. The old Colt Browning Lock Up will go on working even when very dirty, not so with the gas guns.

        3. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          Another draw back when using gas guns is that you should not use low cost lead bullets as it could clog up the gas system. When I shoot, I shoot a lot and not being able to use low cost lead bullets would severely restrict the amount of shooting that I do. I

        4. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          Post Script. I ran across an excellent video on “Forgotten Weapons” about the P7 series of pistols and they stated that when the HK P7 was first marketed it cost less than the Beretta 92 and then HK decided to rape the consumer by raising prices year after year on the gun to outrageous levels with no justification at all even when the exchange rate with the dollar was taken into consideration.

  11. avatar Yarbles says:

    Communism and a German Staple Gun.

    BOTH are wet dreams.

    Better more reliable things to carry in BOTH cases.

    WOULD like to have an M8 or M13 P7, but would never carry it these days.

    Thank you Gaston Glock.

  12. avatar Trampled Under Foot says:

    Yarbles, where is your sense of panache? Glocks have no personality. LOL Seriously, I own Glocks, carry Glocks, been through their armorer school, grabbed one when a running gun fight broke out on my street following Hurricane Michael. Love them like a claw hammer.

  13. avatar Salty Bear says:

    “How do you think our rights would change if the United States was ruled by communists or…let’s say, socialists?”

    Not one bit.

    1. avatar Ing says:

      The rights themselves, as far as they’re inherent to humanity, aren’t going anywhere. But if you’re not allowed to exercise any of them, do you really have them?

  14. avatar possum says:

    when A.I. and robotics advance in the next 30 years Capitalism isn’t going to be such a good idea either. I always thought the p7 was a novelty gunn

  15. avatar Bud says:

    If the book doesnt mention how karl marx and Frederich engels both studied under Moses Hess, the rabbi, and how israel has a large street named after him, mosche hess st. If it doesn’t discuss how marx was employed by the NY herald tribune, or how leon trotsky whose actual name is bronstein, was living in NY before hoping on a boat. Or how Vladimir lenin spoke yiddish, if it doesnt discuss Ukrainian genocide, if it says nothing about the failed german revolution by karl leitchzne and Rosa Luxemburg, if it doesnt tell you about the relationships between international businesses and world banks and their total funding of communism, in each and all of its cases, and without exception, then the book is useless.

  16. avatar raptor jesus says:

    Communist Dictatorship BAD (See: USSR, Venezuela)

    Democratic Socialism GOOD (See: Canada, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark)

    Capitalist Dictatorship BAD (See: China)

    Democratic Capitalism GOOD (See: Japan, USA, Germany)

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