John Q. Public: AR-15s With 30-Round ‘Clips’ Kill More People

courtesy LaRue Tactical

Yes, guns don’t kill people, people kill people. But people with guns can kill more people and people with AR-15’s with 30-round clips can kill even more.

In Parkland, Fla., a shooter with no military training and an AR-15 killed 17 people in 6.5 minutes which is about 2.5 kills a minute or one person every 22 seconds.

How would a good guy with a gun do against that? In the movies … awesomely! In real life, not so good. – Letter to the Editor, Buffalo News, Gun Rights Advocates Must Stop Making Excuses

comments

  1. avatar Baldwin says:

    Kat not only talks the talk, she walks the walk…she used a less lethal 20 round “clip” in the above photo.

    1. avatar Geoff "Mess with the bull, get the horns" PR says:

      “…she used a less lethal 20 round “clip” in the above photo.”

      If you had bothered to read the pic’s citation, you would have noticed it said “courtesy LaRue Tactical”.

      LaRue Tactical is *not* miss Kat…

      1. avatar A Brit in TX says:

        Yet Ms Kat chose to use that image.

      2. avatar Tom T says:

        The OP’s comment is valid. It would not be difficult to use an accurate photo. Where they get the photo is irrelevant.

    2. avatar California Richard says:

      Rumorhas it that Parkland psycho used even lesser leathalier 10-rds clipozines. Any insights? Has that been proven or debunked?

      1. avatar JasonM says:

        Just imagine if he’d used “.30 caliber clips”, he’d have emptied those in half a second.

      2. avatar LarryinTX says:

        I saw reported that dipshit swapped mags at least 5 times, but don’t know how many rounds fired.

    3. avatar CZJay says:

      Didn’t the Parkland shooter use 10 or 20 round mags instead of 30 round? It was said he couldn’t fit the 30 rounders in his bag and he had to reload a bunch of times.

      It wasn’t like he went into a class room and let 30 go. He walked up and down the floors of the building for at least 7 minutes finding kids hiding while the armed security guard was outside watching.

      1. avatar Cpt. Obvious says:

        “the Parkland shooter”

        Oh yeah, that crazy kid with all the warning signs that no one caught soon enough … who was roaming the hallways confused as to why he had been asked to come to the school that day, in a provided Uber ride, .. who was witnessed in street clothes (not swat gear) by multiple students Simultaneously to gunfire coming from different locations than his, …. locations from which teaching staff witnessed at least two culprits in swat gear shooting up the school .. while Hillary’s pet Broward sheriff had as many as 11 Deputies wait outside rather than enter the building and engage. But what would eyewitnesses know about anything? It’s the MSM’s job to (eventually) get their narrative straight and tell us what to think.

        Yeah that “Parkland shooter kid” sounds like ten kinds of crazy. Hopefully the political Left can Save us from him. All they need is our guns.

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Wow, I hadn’t heard about any of that! Just think, if you had taken your medication and were wearing your tinfoil hat, they might have gotten away with it!

    4. avatar Anonymous says:

      In Parkland, Fla., a shooter with no military training and an AR-15 killed 17 people …

      So what???
      Did you know he also did it with 10rd mags??? So much for your future gun magazine bans. They aren’t going to work.

      Further, the Virginia tech shooter killed 32 with a pistol. A pistol (Glock). Your goofy “assault weapons” bans will do nothing.

      Gun control advocates must stop making excuses. The solution isn’t guns, it immoral, nihilistic, crappy leftist culture.

    5. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Who has curved 20-round mags? And why?

  2. avatar Joatmon says:

    This is so stupid it’s making my brain hurt.
    I got nothing.

    1. avatar drunkEODguy says:

      wow, I wonder what prevents the good guy with a gun, who’s likely much more proficient with it, from being equally as effective with said guns as the spree killer. Grand mystery I tell you.

  3. avatar Sam I Am says:

    This looks like an incomplete posting. Odd.

    1. avatar Geoff "Mess with the bull, get the horns" PR says:

      Yeah, like, a citation or link for that quote???

      1. avatar Rick the Bear says:

        Clicking on the link at the end took me to the letter. Not so difficult.

        1. avatar BLAMMO says:

          My ad blocker blocked that entire paragraph. I had to turn it off to see it.

          Holy shit there are a lot of ads on TTAG.

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          The “link” doesn’t display on my screen. Probably accessing the link explains the brevity of the posting.

        3. avatar MyName says:

          Yeah, no link for me either with adblocker on. Checked with it off, went to the source letter, nothing new there – NRA bad, gun owners bad, AR-15 bad, must have gun control.

        4. avatar Geoff "Mess with the bull, get the horns" PR says:

          “Clicking on the link at the end took me to the letter.”

          No link on my screen…

  4. avatar MyName says:

    I hope nobody tells him about the WWII era Brits and their Lee Enfields.

  5. avatar A Brit in TX says:

    What’s the point of this ‘article’? A double barreled shotgun can sustain a higher rate of fire than once per 22 seconds. Heck, so could a single barreled one for that matter. Parkland, Pulse etc only achieved high body counts because of the large number of defenseless targets packed in together.

    The whole concept of the 2A is so that groups of citizens can band together to resist tyranny. That is when having access to standard 30 round magazines & semi-auto rifles (in common use) would be of advantage.

    @Kat, unless there is a point to what you regurgitated, don’t bother repeating it. It looks like you overheard some soy sipping hipster in San Francisco and decided to repeat this as what every ‘John Q Public’ is saying.

    1. avatar ‘liljoe says:

      Wow, talk about missing a point… for years, years I tell you, TTAG publishes a quote usually from an anti-gunner, sometimes pro, that helps you see what some of the sides are thinking and saying. Knowing this you may be caught lesss than flat foot if someone brings it up in an argument. It also allows us to regurgitate our main talking points in the comment section, which is good practice for if you argue with an anti-gunner.

      So this isn’t a new phenomenon, and the main reason for the quote is for our responses. In other words, keep up the good work Kat!

  6. avatar VoxLP says:

    As I recall, the Parkland shooter used 10 round magazines because they fit better in his bag

    1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

      SHHHHHH! You’ll destroy the narrative.

    2. avatar Splic3r says:

      That is my understanding as well

    3. avatar tdiinva says:

      And at Sandy Hook the shooter dropped his magazines ling before they were empty. Unless you possess Jerry Miculek like skills your engagement rate is way less than that required to fully use a 30 round magazine in a minute.

      1. avatar Sian says:

        Unless the shooter is taking return fire, the value of non-restricted magazines is marginal at best.

        A mass-killer will engage trapped, helpless targets at his leisure.

        1. avatar tdiinva says:

          Far and away the shooter’s skill is the biggest factor in the number of casualties followed by environment (open or closed) and time until shooter is engaged. Magazine size is an everything else equal sort of thing -& not very important.

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          And if the shooter *is* taking return fire, I sure hope that brave soul’s magazine is not restricted.

  7. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    The standard 240 years ago was 3 shots per minute with a musket, so by that math the AR 30 round clipizoid is actually slower.

    1. avatar Leighton Cavendish says:

      Don’t bring facts into the equation…Dem/lib heads will explode…

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “Don’t bring facts into the equation…Dem/lib heads will explode…”

        You do realize that you cannot explode a vacuum, right?

        1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          You’ve obviously never seen Star Wars.

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “You’ve obviously never seen Star Wars.”

          Exploding something IN a vacuum is different from exploding A vacuum.

        3. avatar A Brit in TX says:

          Implode works better!

  8. avatar ollie says:

    Well, the answer to the “mass shootings” problem is to get rid of all movies/television/videos with violence in them. Most coconuts cannot distinguish between real life and movies so we must remove the inspiration for their heinous actions. Ban them all. Books too, if they contain any violence, burn them.

    1. avatar JD says:

      That’s the stupidest thing I’ve read all week….🤦‍♂️ Congrats, you are a moron.

      1. avatar Mark_PAV says:

        Psst…..I’m pretty sure that was…….sarcasm.

  9. avatar Shire-man says:

    Average police response time 12.5 minutes. At 2.5 kills per minute that’s 31.25 kills waiting for the cops to bring their guns to the scene. Herpaderp.

    1. avatar MyName says:

      At least they’ll get there in time to save 3/4ths of that last guy.

      1. avatar TheUnspoken says:

        Mr. or Mrs. 3/4 will die as well from bleeding out while they do a full lock down and keep medical responders outside the parameter.

        Any stats on how many actual rounds were fired in parkland and whether the dead died “instantly” or from lack of medical care? Same with Pulse?

        Speaking of not reporting the investigation results, that twin peaks biker gang / police shoot out totally disappeared, not sure if those guys are still rotting in jail without bail, or if those killed were by police or gang bullet…

  10. avatar No one of consequence says:

    LaRue makes some nice stuff!

    (And, yeah, antis, math and facts don’t mix well.)

  11. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    The Trolley Square Mall shooter in Utah used a Maverick 88 shotgun. I believe he had to reload his gun manually at least four times.

    The recent Baltimore newspaper shooter also used a pump shotgun. And he had to reload his weapon several times as well.

    1. avatar Geoff "Mess with the bull, get the horns" PR says:

      Pump shotguns are banned in Australia.

      There just so happens to be a political party in America that wants “Australian-style gun control”.

      Can you guess which one?

      1. avatar former water walker says:

        And my lowly Maverick88 7+1(or 8) is banned in some states ’cause it holds too many shells…I’m keeping it and my 30round AR clipazines. And my over 10round handgun mags😄

        1. avatar Jonathan-Houston says:

          All we have to do is pass a law banning spree shooters from removing that wooden dowel from the Mav 88’s tube magazine, thereby limiting its shell capacity.

          Problem solved!

  12. avatar Manse Jolly says:

    My question is simple but you absolutely will not hear the MSM or an ‘anti’ even acknowledge it.

    How many kids bled out, that could have been saved, because the police were ordered to set up a perimeter and refused to let medic’s go in?????

    1. avatar Southern Cross says:

      They were following the 1970s protocol of collecting millions of dollars in small denomination Bill’s and arranging a plane to take him to Cuba.

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Well, at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, the cops sealed the killer inside with lots of victims for 3 hours, while they listened to him killing people. I bet a LOT bled out waiting for help.

  13. Is this an F’N joke. I’m dumber for having read this.

  14. avatar 2aguy says:

    And yet….a shooter in Crimea last month killed 20 people with a 5 shot, pump action shotgun….it is the gun free zone, filled with unarmed, helpless people that creates the number of dead during an attack……

    And the only reason they are so hard on about AR-15 rifles right now, is they know if they can get them banned, they can then come back and demand all semi automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns also be banned since they all operate the same way…and even revolvers can be lumped into this category….they know this, and that is why the Supreme Court needs to hit back on these attacks on the 2nd Amendment.

    1. avatar Jonathan-Houston says:

      I hadn’t heard about that Crimea college shooting. 19 dead and dozens more wounded. Yikes. So much for the “this sort of thing doesn’t happen in other countries” myth.

      1. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

        I’m sure it has to do with Trump and Russia or something

  15. avatar billy-bob says:

    “In Parkland, Fla., a shooter with no military training and an AR-15 killed 17 people in 6.5 minutes which is about 2.5 kills a minute or one person every 22 seconds.”

    While ‘armed and trained’ police stood around outside waiting for the dying to stop, before they intervened.

  16. avatar Rick the Bear says:

    Nice rifle. It even had the shoulder thing that goes up.

  17. avatar FedUp says:

    Any reasonably fit teenager could kill 2.5 people per minute with a katana in that environment, so what’s John Q’s point?

    Just imagine what the Parkland killer could have done with a double bladed assault Naginata.

  18. avatar RGP says:

    Hopefully that guy never finds out about the professional hunter in Africa who was attacked by poachers who had AK47’s, and then proceeded to take them out, one shot each, with his bolt action .416.

    1. avatar Southern Cross says:

      That would have been messy.

      I heard another one about a ranger who was chasing poachers. The poachers had AKs and the ranger a No4 Lee Enfield.

      The poachers crossed a river that was about 400m across and started shouting taunts and threats at the ranger. The ranger went prone, adjusted his sights, and dropped the poachers one by one.

      After the first poacher was killed the others stood in stunned shock as they thought no one could shoot that far.

      1. avatar BobS says:

        They apparently hadn’t learned from the experiences of the British regular army, particularly the officers, when they encountered Daniel Morgan’s Riflemen.

      2. avatar GS650G says:

        An AK would be a poor choice at that range. The bullets would land all.arounf the ranger.

  19. avatar pwrserge says:

    The way I see it, if you oppose the 2nd amendment, you don’t get to hid behind the 1st amendment.

  20. avatar HP says:

    “But people with guns can kill more people and people with AR-15’s with 30-round clips can kill even more.”

    Unless you use a truck, like in France, in which case you can kill far more people than even the worst mass shooting in America in which in AR-15 was allegedly used.

    Or you can use box cutters and increase the toll by thousands…..

  21. avatar James W Crawford says:

    These morons should peruse the FBI crime data. In spite of the increasing popularity of semiautomatic rifles that can accept ahigh capacity magazine verses th more traditional, politically correct, bolt action Fudd rifles the number and percentage of homicides committed with rifles has been on a steep decline for decades. While the percentage of homicides committed with handguns has increased, the claim that modern, high capacity, semiautomatic pistols are more lethal than traditional revolvers is refuted by the fact that the ratio of firearms homicides to firearms assaults is decreasing. The antigun trauma doctors can not take credit for this trend because no similar decrease in the lethality of assaults with knives, clubs, fists and other weapons has occurred.

    1. avatar GunnyGene says:

      Thank you for not including lever guns in the FUDD category. I have a couple such guns. I’m not the fastest old fart on the block, but I can still empty 7 rounds in 7 sec. with them – faster on a good day. :0

      1. avatar James W Crawford says:

        Any gun that the gun banners claim that they do not intend to ban is by defijition a Fudd Gun. The problem with Fudd Guns is that some scum sucking whore of an attorney will exploit the Politically Correct image to convince an imbecile judge or a moronic jury that their client really wasnt intending to harm anyone befause they were using a Fuddgun to commit mass murder.

  22. avatar burley says:

    This site has become “The Bad News About Guns”. I think it’s been switched over to purposefully discourage us.

    1. avatar Michael in AK says:

      +100

    2. avatar Alex Waits says:

      No, just reminders that by and large, there are anti-American trying to influence the public to there thinking, getting the sheep to slaughter willingly.

      1. avatar Alex Waits says:

        I miss the edit feature *sigh*

        Ignore my pathetic grammar

    3. avatar CZJay says:

      “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” –Sun Tzu

  23. avatar Kap says:

    Democrat party dupes actually believe this crap! that’s the sad part!

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      *Most people believe it.

  24. avatar James W Crawford says:

    I seem to recall that a deranged murderer named Charles Whitman achieved quite a few kills by climbing a clock tower armed with a Remington 700. Pump action and break action, 12 gauge shotguns were quite lethal at the Anapolis Gazette newspaper, the Washington Navy Yard, Columbine High School and Sante Fe Texas High School. The Remington 870 seems to be the Fudd gun of choice for mass murders.

  25. avatar W says:

    Excellent example of a simpleton regurgitating what he’s been told.

    Of course, a big problem is the first responders waiting around outside while everyone bleeds out (Columbine, Virginia Tech, Orlando, Parkland, etc). But, no Democrat wants to mention that issue.

  26. avatar BobS says:

    Yes, the shooter in Parkland FL had military training. That’s why so many schools reflexively cut off their JROTC programs.

    The NRA’s support for those programs (as in Parkland) didn’t exactly endear them to the pearl clutching moms either.

  27. One of the many problems with this editorial is that the Parkland shooter did not use 30-round magazines.
    He deliberately chose to use 10-round magazines, even though 30-round magazines were legal, cheap, and easily available in his state. Why did he choose 10-round magazines? Because they fit better in his bag.
    Probably also because with the schools all being gun-free zones with “active shooter” drills that require teachers, staff, and kids to “die in place” (hide instead of fighting back), he had all the time in the world to reload. He could have been using a bolt-action rifle or single-shot break-action rifle and killed just as many people, because with nobody shooting back, he had all the time in the world to reload!
    But try telling this to an anti. They are as ignorant about guns as they are controlling and manipulative.

  28. avatar Jim Bullock says:

    So far this week we’ve learned:

    – Citizens should have their own arms, so won’t get killed at 1 / 22 seconds while the cops truck in. (Today.)

    – Defensive shooters should have large mags, so attacking B Gs can’t charge during the reload. (Earlier this wk.)

    – Gun insurance is so important you have to have it after The Proconsul ran independent providers out of business. (This article.)

    Did they do that last just to be dicks to an org that doesn’t support The Proconsul? To grab the oppy to build their database; how they gonna do that if you don’t have to prove you have insurance? Everything not compulsory is forbidden – can’t have you proles doing things yourselves. Cronyism n graft, or making sure their constiuencies only feed at the govt trough. (Can’t have insurance n lawyers getting independent business: they may think they don’t need the gov.) Or just the fees for processing the insurance cert. Plus, of course, positioning n copy for The Proconsul’s presidential run. Every little bit helps.

    That’s 7-9 good reasons, n all it costs is some bother, money, and safety from people they don’t care about anyway. Actually, that’s another payoff — drag them down some more, n they’ll be too burdened getting by to deal with politics. Their occasional deaths will make more headline fodder for more “policies.” It’s win, win, win, win.

    It’s an 11-fer. These guys are good.

    1. avatar Jim Bullock says:

      Sorry, this is the “Big mags, good.” article. The insurance 11-fer is the other one.

      They’re doing so much to, I mean “for” us lately, I get confused.

  29. avatar Brainman says:

    And yet, according to the CDC, more people died falling out of bed than were killed by all long guns last year.

  30. avatar raptor jesus says:

    I thought the Parkland shooter used 10 round mags because they were easier to conceal?

  31. avatar possum says:

    I would say that I could kill more people being a 30 round clip then I could with a five round clip. The five round clip wouldn’t give you much to hold onto apposed to a 30 round clip when beating someone to death with a clip. I think if I had a gun that used the clip, I d just shoot them instead .

  32. avatar DJ says:

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/11/fbi-data-shows-armed-citizens-have-94-success-rate-stopping-would-be-mass-shooters/

    The “common sense” answer is train and arm more people, then let them carry in gun free zones.

  33. avatar Michael says:

    One way or the other, some kind of death is gonna get us all eventually. Thinking something about life and death can be changed by people passing a law makes as much sense as thinking that making laws will change the weather. Oh, wait a minute, they DO think that. Oops, my bad. For all good folk returning fire, twenty rounders allow ya to go prone, continue operational contact and not get shot as much. Just for the record, I’ve never made “excuses” about firearms, I’m too busy having fun shooting them. That may be part of the problem, the thought that anyone, anywhere is having fun at something. -30-

  34. avatar CZJay says:

    In California the limit for magazine capacity is 10, guns are not allowed in bars, concealed carry is only allowed with a permit.

    The Boderline shooter had 7 illegal magazines with a capacity of 26 rounds each for his legal Glock pistol. He did not have a permit to legally carry his gun outside his home. He was not legally allowed to carry a gun into the bar.

    The sheriff says there was at least 8 law enforcement in the bar at the time of the shooting and none of them fired a round, instead they helped people escape (while two on duty officers responded and engaged, one dying in the process).

    There was speculation that one of the non armed men in the bar tried to disarm the shooter and was stabbed in the neck.

    So, how are anti 2nd Amendment laws going to stop people from doing this when California has these laws and there was at least 10 law enforcement on scene and only 2 of them decided to go for it? The professionals didn’t stop him, he killed himself.

    I don’t want to be sitting around waiting for a law enforcement officer to decide to save me nor do I want to be stuck in a bathroom as the shooter hunts me down.

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      Guess fucking WHAT!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV8p3uvnU4s

      This makes me literally feel sick. The hero cop was killed by another cop. I had suspected he wasn’t killed by a .45 when he has armor for that… He wasn’t. It was the AR-15 from a cop.

      This is getting ridiculous. We cannot rely on the government.

  35. avatar DaveDetroit says:

    You’d think that someone would just pass a law making murder illegal. Surely that would stop it!

  36. avatar john says:

    Unarmed targets will always die whether 6 rounds or 30. Banning anything only makes it more expensive and a little longer to find.

  37. avatar UpInArms says:

    Well, I just saw this on the CNN website—

    The deputy that was killed at the Thousand Oaks bar was shot dead by a Cal Highway Patrol officer.

    Oh well. They are professionals, ya know…

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      I was typing a comment (as you can see above yours) regarding the Borderline shooting, when I went to look for a video to post I saw the press conference being aired, that’s when I saw the news.

      Trump’s FBI does not want the truth to be let out in full. They are controlling the flow of information. During the press conference they refused to answer questions they have answers for. They intend to let out what they want slowly. They won’t even tell you if the Sgt was shot in the back or the front, they simply say in the chest and heart.

      The motive was the same as the Mandalay Bay shooting: more gun control. Can’t deny it when he posted on his social media before he went in like the synagogue shooter did. He went out of his way to buy seven illegal 26 round magazines, buy smoke “bombs,” go to a country bar 5 miles from his home before hand to scout it out, wait for college country music night to dress up like the Punisher and have some “fun.”

      I guess all the civvies got to give up their scary guns now.

  38. avatar AlanInFL says:

    What a minute, didn’t the high school shooter used 10rnds magazines for his rifle since the 30rnds mags couldn’t fit into his backpack?

    1. avatar Binder says:

      And in Vegas 100 round Surefire Mags were used to shoot 500 people at 500 yards.

      1. avatar Scoutino says:

        Maybe. So what? Would smaller capacity magazines enable someone to rush the killer?

  39. avatar little horn says:

    its like this website goes ONLY for the low hanging fruit.
    its just getting to where on this website, if its not a review of an item, its worthless flame/click-bait.

  40. avatar GS650G says:

    Politicians have killed more people with their stupid decisions than all the magazine ever will.

  41. avatar Ed Schrade says:

    Gun free zones lead to mass shootings. Ban gun free zones. Any entity that posts a building or area as gun free should be held liable for crimes committed with firearms in these areas.

  42. avatar Ark says:

    It doesn’t take high capacity or military training to execute compliant, unarmed people begging for their lives.

  43. avatar 556SBR says:

    I’ve asked people if they are ok with 10 or less people dying in a shooting.. “Of course not!” they reply. Then I say that they are implying that they are ok with that when they support a ban on large capacity magazines but allows 10 round capacity.
    Their head usually explodes then.

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