Sneak Peek: Lord Rockwell Reveals the Not-A-Bumpstock Stock

Lord Rockwell Not-A-Bumpstock bumpstock bump stock

courtesy lordrockwell.com

Earlier this week, the Trump Administration, through the Department of Justice, unilaterally re-defined bump fire stocks as machine guns. The fact that the the ATF’s own earlier assessment of the stocks under current law reached the conclusion that they are “a firearm part and…not regulated under Gun Control Act or the National Firearms Act” doesn’t seem to matter. Bump fire stocks are now machine guns because the ATF says they are.

Now, however, a new product is being announced by a company called Lord Rockwell. And for now, they’re archly calling their product the Not-A-Bumpstock (that name may change).

TTAG spoke to the Not-A-Bumpstock’s inventor last night who told us that he invented this thing for a relative who was born with a deformed arm, loves to shoot, but couldn’t use a standard bump fire stock.

He said that while this product accomplishes what a bump fire stock does, it does it in such a way as to be different enough that the ATF’s latest ruling won’t apply. Details about those differences are being withheld until early January when a full rollout will happen with a press release and video that will show exactly how the Not-A-Bumptock goes about its business. For now, all we have to go on is the drawing above.

As we told him last night, we wish the enterprising inventor, who’s licensed his device to Lord Rockwell, good luck with his product. He said that he will be submitting it to the ATF for formal approval. But we certainly have our doubts.

If they ATF can waive its regulatory wand and magically designate an approved firearm part as a machine gun, it’s hard to see why another item that similarly increases the rate of semi-automatic fire would fare any better. But we’ll be watching.

Here’s Lord Rockwell’s statement:

Your eyes are not deceiving you.

This is not a bumpstock. That one piece stock and grip and whatever that mystery part there is just a couple parts in a new system of pew things, none of which are bumpstock.

The new rule that was issued reinterpreting what bumpstocks and machine guns are is actually pretty narrow. Lord Rockwell has provisional patents on new pew technology that supersedes the bumpstock, but also has a wider application and purpose in the market.

The Not-A-Bumpstock is not a bumpstock. And it’s most definitely not a machine gun. As is the timeless tale of regulation, governments ban things, and the marketplace replaces them with new products to comply with the law. For non-gun owners, it’s like that upcoming iPhone Jailbreak that you know is inevitable.

We chose to wait to announce the product until after the bumpstock ban so that regulators did not arbitrarily target our product too. That would have been particularly upsetting since it’s not a bumpstock. Among other things, the Not-A-Bumpstock aids injured veterans, the elderly, and others with disabilities to be able to shoot again, and shoot very fast.

While we’re poised to benefit from the bumpstock ban, we support the lawsuits that will are seeking to overturn it. Our product will have a place in the market with or without a bumpstock ban. We respect President Trump and his desire to keep Americans safe. A ban on bumpstocks does not improve public safety, but will make several hundred thousand people into potential felons.

We’re letting the market know an alternative product exists. The Not-A-Bumpstocks are a more complex system. More than just replacing a grip and stock. The Not-A-Bumpstocks will be available as conversion kits for existing firearms and as complete firearms with an integral Not-A-Bumpstock. More details on the operation, safety, and availability of Not-A-Bumpstocks will follow after Christmas. We will be following standard procedures of submitting the device to the ATF’s technology branch for review of compliance with existing law and the new bumpstock rule ahead of shipping them to customers and distributors. Let your heart be not troubled, it’s Not-A-Bumpstock.

comments

  1. avatar John J Marren says:

    It is a great country America….keep up the innovation.

    1. avatar Freebird says:

      N.R.A. is wetting its panties right now and asking the outlaw ATF to ” Review and BAN ” this item too.

      Count on it.

      1. avatar Big Sky says:

        Its gotta be used in a mass shooting before it gets banned. That might be a while.

        1. avatar 22winmag says:

          You mean a HOAX mass shooting, right?

          http://mileswmathis.com/synag.pdf

    2. avatar Josh Mcroberts says:

      innovation will now have a chance now that Slide Fire is out of the way.

  2. avatar Old Region Fan says:

    See what the Donald and now of course Rob Pincus says about this. After all Rob “it’s the law”

    1. avatar PavePusher says:

      Pincus can suck-start an acid-soaked cactus.

      1. avatar Chris says:

        “Suck start…..”. I laughed so hard the dog sitting on my lap almost jumped off.

        Author Brad Taylor according to his blog believes bump stocks should be illegal also. As funny as you wrote it I wouldn’t wish anyone ingesting acid, just to be clear.

  3. avatar L says:

    Curious to see how it works.

    1. avatar Geoff "You'll shoot your eye out, kid!" PR says:

      Looking at that weird bent-looking thing, I wonder if it acts to make the stock flexible, kinda adding a ‘spring’ effect to it.

      Recoil causes the stock to flex, allowing bump-fire operation, perhaps?

      1. avatar Raz-0 says:

        If it operates like a spring in the stock it was Doa before the latest from the atf. We went down that road before the first approved bump stock.

        I’m guessing it creates a hinge of a short and the rifle buckles at the hinge point enough to swipe the finger along a curved trigger and nudge it. I’m guessing the guy with the arm problem couldn’t exert the needed simultaneous forward and backward pressure.

        Or not. We’ll see.

    2. avatar Chuck in IL says:

      Looks like maybe it replaces the trigger guard somehow.

  4. avatar -Peter says:

    I’ve been offline for a week or so. Are we all angry at Trump over this, or no? Is the NRA still supporting him with everything its got?

    I voted for the guy, but if I apply the “what if Obama did this” test, it definitely wouldn’t pass muster.

    1. avatar Richard Jr says:

      How dare you ask a question that might make Trump, the NRA, and their 4D chess game against the left, look bad!! You must be a Hillary supporter! Look everybody, this guy is questioning our lord and savior Donald J Trump, and he’s a Hillary supporter! Get him!

      1. avatar JMR says:

        I thin we’re passed 4-D onto 64-D or something.

        1. avatar Model 31 says:

          Quantum Chess is the lvl you are seeing. The problem is observing it, changes it.

      2. avatar possum says:

        Wouldn’t 4d be just like 1d only 4 boards? Then 3 of them quit or get fired

    2. avatar Fudds McKenzie says:

      It’s too early to say, we have to wait a decade to see if it’s a 4D chess move, and keep voting R and supporting the NRA in the meantime. It’s basically unknowable whether policy is anti-gun.

      1. avatar BRYAN says:

        Keep voting in more gun bans?

        I hope this was sarcasm.

    3. avatar Swarf says:

      I have trouble imagining the apoplectic spasms of rage that would have occured had even one of the countless scandals of the Trump farm happened during Obama’s two terms. Or the endless lies.

      President Obama’s choice of mustard was in the right wing news cycle for weeks, fer fuck’s sake.

      1. avatar Chuckie says:

        NOW, NOW – don’t go applying Obama standards to Trump; it’s just not fair.

    4. avatar joel says:

      i didn’t vote for him for a number of reasons, but it seemed pretty clear Trump would say anything, and could be counted on for only one thing. self glorification. Sure, i was hopeful that i would be wrong, (for example, i thought Obama would be bad for gun rights), but feared we would get exactly what we have.

      The only thing he ever had going for him was hillary clinton. (no. i didn’t vote for her either, and yes i did vote.)

  5. avatar Draven says:

    Curious to see the ATF approval letter for this.

  6. avatar Fit2Btyed says:

    The jury is still out. Now the waiting game. I won’t be losing any sleep over this issue while the democrats are now targeting your AK’s and AR’s.

    1. avatar Binder says:

      Well now that just about anyone can shoot 600+ RPM out of a AR-15, do you really blame the anti gun side for going after them?
      For years the pro gun side said that there was a “difference” between a semi automatic and full automatic. But if you have the same RoF, what is the real significant difference?

      I know, the “2nd”, well that argument has not worked for machine guns for about 80 years, so I’m not holding my breath.

      And just as a FYI, I think the RoF and the carnage that can be inflected with one has a lot more to do with why the government has highly regulated machine guns than how exactly they work.

      1. avatar Freeheel says:

        Horsecrap. Pollack had a kill ratio of around 4% firing into a packed crowed with bump stock equipped riffles. Now that’s assuming a lot of things as reports of how many rounds were fired and from what rifles has never officially been reported. A regular semi-auto with controlled, aimed fire would have created much more carnage than a bumpstock free for all.

        1. avatar Freeheel says:

          *crowd

        2. avatar Tim says:

          That has always been my contention as well, with the implication that him using a bump stock actually *saved* lives (at the expense of more casualties overall) versus aimed, semi-automatic fire. I’ve always wanted to come up with some way to analyze and quantify that hypothesis, though.

          Similar to what TTAG did here:

          https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/01/foghorn/ttag-simulated-school-shooting-experiment-results-and-analysis/

          https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/01/foghorn/ttag-charly-hebdo-simulation-preliminary-results/

          Obviously, the “paintball” approach isn’t going to work at that scale, but I’ve been unable to come up with a sound test to simulate both scenarios.

        3. avatar That One Guy says:

          I think you could do a pretty simple side-by-side test to figure the differences, especially if you take the LV scenario into account.

          Most LV victims were either packed in a crowd or sheltering from a shooter’s unknown position. In either case, they were fairly static targets from the Mandalay.

          Position a few hundred balloons downrange at the appropriate distance and bumpstock a hundred round drum at them. Count the losses.

          Reset the balloons and repeat, just taking half-aimed shots as quickly as possible.

          Burn a thousand rounds (5 passes with the bumpstock and 5 without), and see where the data leads.

          I’m just guessing that the bumpstock will lose, but not by much. that’s the whole point of shooting fish in a barrel, you don’t even have to half-aim.

        4. avatar binder says:

          The 4% death rate was due to the RANGE not the accuracy. And that is EXACTLY why machine guns exist. To dump as much fire as possible with reasonable accuracy down range. He still achieved 50% casualty rate.

      2. avatar Chip Bennett says:

        But if you have the same RoF, what is the real significant difference?

        The black-letter, statutory definition of “machine gun”, that’s the real significant difference.

        Rate of fire is nowhere to be found in the statutory language, nor is it explicitly found in the ATF’s rule-making (at least, in the parts that I skimmed). Though the ATF’s rule-making strongly implies that rate of fire is what makes the bump stock “like” a “machine gun.”

        1. avatar Baldwin says:

          Wow! It’s like…words mean things? That will never work in the real world. Or, is it that will never work in the gun world?

        2. avatar binder says:

          “The black-letter, statutory definition of “machine gun”, that’s the real significant difference.”

          Well that was written when the only way to get that RoF was with something that matched the definition. Now that they have figured out how to do it without matching the definition, you expect everything is just going to be hunky dory after someone lit up a crowd with one? Especially when the pro-gun side keeps LYING about what exactly can be done with a Slide-Fire?

        3. avatar Chip Bennett says:

          Well that was written when the only way to get that RoF was with something that matched the definition.

          So?

          Now that they have figured out how to do it without matching the definition, you expect everything is just going to be hunky dory after someone lit up a crowd with one?

          If only the Congress had some means by which to update statutory language, should changing technology lead to statutory language that is incongruous with the intent of the Congress…

      3. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Binder, actually “2A” *has* worked for about 80 years now, since machine guns were taxed, not banned. Banned has effectively been arguable since ’86, but never challenged. Suggesting we should all just give up is a trifle fatalistic. We need this question in SCOTUS within a couple years.

        And FYI, RBG is back in the hospital with lung cancer.

        1. avatar Geoff "You'll shoot your eye out, kid!" PR says:

          “And FYI, RBG is back in the hospital with lung cancer.”

          They cut it out. Probably had to re-break some of her ribs to get to it, tho.

          Broken ribs, lung cancer, and it’s the peak of the cold-n-flu season.

          If she caught a cold, it could kill her. Broken ribs make coughing hurt like a mother-F.

          Here’s hoping you catch a cold, Ruthie. Hurry up and die, will ya?

        2. avatar rt66paul says:

          I don’t wish more pain on anyone, but RBG, it is time you retired.

        3. avatar binder says:

          The NFA was never repealed, nor the Hughes amendment. And they never will. When it comes to kids and massive body counts in seconds the 2nd just gets ignored. Hell the safe schools act was declared unconstitutional, and it still came back.

          There are two camps when it comes to people who truly know what can be done with a Slide-Fire. Those who think everyone should be able to own a light machine guns, and those who have seconds thoughts.

          And I can assure you, reliable 800 RPM, and sub 6 MoA can be achieved with the right setup. That is M249 territory. And YES a 249 is a MUCH better gun, but sometimes crap is good enough for a job.

    2. avatar CZ Rider says:

      I’m going to lose more sleep than if they did try to ban all semi autos, because the president just ordered one of his alphabet soup agencies to turn half a million people into felons by redefining a law without any input at all from the branch of government that actually defines the goddamn law. In my book that’s at least equally tyrannical to Congress actually following constitutional processes to pass an unconstitutional law.

      1. avatar CZJay says:

        https://www.infowars.com/the-deep-state-wants-your-guns/

        Bureaucracies are a Different Animal

        The Reno incident shows yet again that bureaucracies have their own agendas. It is myopic to believe that bureaucracies will act in the public interest and abide by the rule of law when left unchecked.

        Bovard thus raises an interesting concern: “While such laws were made by elected officials, it is unelected bureaucrats who are largely left in charge of enforcement, and that can cause big problems for gun owners”.

        Exercising control over this sort of legal abuse can be exceptionally difficult when dealing with unelected bureaucrats. In the book Bureaucracy , Ludwig von Mises contended that the “worst law is better than bureaucratic tyranny”. There is considerable truth behind this assertion. A solid citizen lobby can vote out anti-gun politicians, but they will have much more work on their plate in order to put the clamps on bureaucratic overreach. In some cases it may require a wholesale abolition or defunding of a government bureaucracy — a tall order in today’s climate of ever-expanding government.

        So why did Trump give the “deep state” this power and why is he pushing for gun confiscation orders? We should ask Alex Jones to explain it to us.

        1. avatar binder says:

          Alex Jones is a moron when it comes to guns. Did you ever see his stupid video where they try to disprove that a Slide-Fire works with a bi-pod.

        2. avatar doesky2 says:

          I agree that Alex Jones is a moron.
          I don’t agree on part2.

  7. avatar kap says:

    Good luck with that Except the Democrats are going too destroy our Constitution and way of life this coming year! so it won’t matter any way! start caching all available spare weapons and Ammo!

  8. avatar Shire-man says:

    Replaces the trigger guard and a rubber band connects to the stock?
    Can bump like that now by looping the band around the trigger.

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      Sounds like someone be manufacturing a machine gun. Rubber bands are an illegal modifications to convert a semi auto to a full semi auto. This is considered a machine gun by the President of the U.S.

      Also, shouldering an arm brace is going to be considered (again) a SBR, thus this will be subject to a permission slip before one can shoulder it lawfully. If your state allows SBRs, you can submit your permission slip request and pay the fine for your liberty.

      See you in 2020.

  9. avatar former water walker says:

    Golly I saw a dude bumpfire an AR and an AK with NOTHING but technique. Ban humans😄😎😏

    1. avatar possum says:

      There’s no way in hell anyone can fire a semi automatic as fast as a bump fire. And before arguing that , think what your saying. Nobody can. Those are you tube tricks your watching.

      1. avatar Chip Bennett says:

        There’s no way in hell anyone can fire a semi automatic as fast as a bump fire. And before arguing that , think what your saying. Nobody can. Those are you tube tricks your watching.

        Jerry Miculek disagrees.

        1. avatar Chip Bennett says:

          Oh, I guess the original source for that article is… TTAG:

          https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/daniel-zimmerman/jerry-miculek-vs-bumpfire-stock/

        2. avatar binder says:

          First he is one of the best shooter in the world running highly custom guns with decades of practice.

          And I can also assure you he can’t keep that up for 500 rounds, much less 50.

          But I will give it you that almost anyone can get up to about half the RoF of an actual machine gun. But be careful, you could end up providing an argument that ALL semi autos should be banned.

        3. avatar Chip Bennett says:

          First he is one of the best shooter in the world running highly custom guns with decades of practice.

          Are we moving the goalposts now?

          And I can also assure you he can’t keep that up for 500 rounds…

          Neither can an AR15.

        4. avatar CZJay says:

          @binder

          So you finally see their plan? Welcome to the illuminated ones. You could have gotten here sooner if you read my stuff.

          https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/robert-farago/military-arms-channel-tim-harmsen-ban-on-rate-increasing-device-threatens-all-our-gun-rights/#comment-3676970

          They want to ban the ability to rapid fire. The only way you can do that is to ban all semi-automatic/self loading firearms. That means you will be left with shotguns and bolt action rifles. You are not going to be carrying a shotgun or bolt action rifle around with you on the daily, thus open and concealed carry is effectively gone too.

          This is why I point out that “bump fire” is a technique not a “device.” You can’t ban techniques/skills, but you can outlaw objects.

          The governments of the world will always try to ban ownership of semi-auto firearms from their citizenry. There is no need to explain as to why that is.

          You could define a “criminal” as someone who: wants to take away your human rights, wants to remove you of your property, wants to imprison you, wants to take your liberty.” –CZJay

      2. avatar Anymouse says:

        You can bumpfire with a standard factory fixed stock. Hold it away from your shoulder, put your thumb parallel to your palm, grip the pistol grip loosely with 3 fingers, crook a finger in the trigger guard, support the weight with you index finger on the bottom of the trigger guard, and pull forward with your other hand. The gun recoil slides backward past the firing hand, resets the trigger, and then your other hand pulls the trigger back into your stationary trigger finger. Bumpstocks work the same, except you get a firm shoulder mount and good hand grip, and there’s a ledge to help keep your hand stationary.

        1. avatar binder says:

          If you ever saw a slide fire set up the right way, you would NEVER make that argument.

        2. avatar possum says:

          . Well I “USED” to have a Remington 7400 , but they banned semi autos because gun grabbers were told by gun owners over and over that they could shoot them just as fast. And we can’t have that. I keep my Claymores buried under the chicken coop, and a couple cases of Beecher’s Bibles over by the horse trough and can shoot a semi-auto as fast as a bumpstock.

      3. avatar CZJay says:

        Baby, it’s cold outside, but we still be bump firing…

  10. avatar Helms Deep says:

    “The bottom line is President Trump has been more anti-gun in his tenure, in terms of legislation and regulations, than the Obama administration,” , said Brandon Combs, president of the Firearms Policy Coalition.

    Trump and NRA betrayed us.

    We Will Not Forget

    1. avatar New Continental Army says:

      Ok, while all the hate at Trump is 100% warranted, I’m going to continue to call that kind of bullshit, bullshit. Obama didn’t pass any anti gun legislation or orders because he didn’t WANT to, it’s because he COULDNT. He tried to get the ATF to ban m855 in a similar move, (a far more aggressive move too) but was stopped. If everyone here is going to start falling in love with Obama all the sudden because he failed in his gun control attempts, then everyone needs to fall in love with Bush too. Because the AWB expired during his tenure. Seems like some pretty silly logic to me.

      1. avatar Helms Deep says:

        Your 4 – D chess hallucinations are showing.

        1. avatar New Continental Army says:

          You’re flat out retarded, of brainwashed. Do you even pay attention? I’ve done nothing but bitch about this and point the finger soley at Trump himself. But just because he did this doesn’t make Obama some Fucking grand pro second amendment hero that you retards have been trying to push. It’s apparently clear you’re one of these dimwit gen Zer’s that just started paying attention to politics since 2016. Go a read a book or two about history.

        2. avatar CZ Rider says:

          Not sure if obtuse or just stupid, but either way, nobody is trying to lionize Obama. If you say something is worse than cancer, that statement does not imply that you have a favorable view of cancer. It just means you think that thing is really bad. Please stop trying to deflect blame from your lord and master with these idiotic canards about Obama or your girl losing or whatever else.

        3. avatar New Continental Army says:

          You clearly haven’t been paying attention to my posts either you blathering retard. Perhaps you should read my posts harder or save them so you can memorize them. I understand if you can’t though, learning to read in your 20s is hard I suppose.

      2. avatar TTardsLongYards says:

        lol, love that hate against trump must be countered with “BuT dOnT gO lOvInG oBaMa!!1!1”

        Trump sucks, the NRA sucks. This just shows it. Remember how Mexico was going to pay for the wall, too? Anyone that believed his ridiculous, inane campaign promises deserves the shock and disappoint they should feel right now.

        Enjoy your taxes being used for a wall that will literally stop nothing. Enjoy our 2a rights being slowly stripped away because, NEWS FLASH, Trump never cared about your gun rights.

        1. avatar New Continental Army says:

          I love how upset you are. Like you somehow bashing Trump is proving me wrong. Bash away retard, it doesn’t change the facts of the matter. Yes, you Obamabots who just got into politics yesterday may not understand this, but Obama was a very anti gun president who was simply prevented from enacting his desires. I get it, your mad he couldn’t do that.

      3. avatar EWTHeckman says:

        The simple point is that he succeeded where Obama failed. The only difference between the two is how far they wanted to take their violations of the 2nd Amendment. Trump clearly isn’t done, either. Whether he knows it or not, he is paving the way for the Dems to achieve their anti-gun, anti-liberty wet dreams.

        1. avatar New Continental Army says:

          Ok? Your point is?

        2. avatar CZJay says:

          @New Continental Army

          Whether he knows it or not, he is paving the way for the Dems to achieve their anti-gun, anti-liberty wet dreams.

        3. avatar New Continental Army says:

          I AGREE with that! I’m simply pointing out that all of the sudden there’s all these “well turns out Obama wasn’t so bad” statements coming from our side. You know that’s a line of crap.

      4. avatar CZJay says:

        In Trump’s case, winning is losing. Just like how a piece of plastic (that attaches outside the fire control group) is a machine gun.

      1. avatar New Continental Army says:

        Your point? I am sitting here arguing in favor of this ban or Trumps other gun control measures? No? You can’t read either? Color me shocked.

  11. avatar Fudds McKenzie, party fudd says:

    I can’t even get excited. Cat and mouse was fun when the pro-RKBA side had monentum. But now that we’re losers, especially you NRA fudds and Trumpkins if you were ever sincere about gun rights, I’m just like whatevs.

    1. avatar New Continental Army says:

      You might be a loser but I’m not. I still have all my guns and plan to buy and carry several more. You can let the liberals own you if you want but I’m not.

      1. avatar DuWatNao says:

        You let the liberals own you the moment you voted for the Cheeto. He doesn’t give a flying fartsicle about your gun rights or mine. Never did, just like he never cared about actually delivering on 90% of his campaign ‘promises.’

        You see the gofundme for the wall? Idiots, every last one of em.

        1. avatar New Continental Army says:

          Right right right, because the only way to beat the liberals was to vote for Hillary. God you are such a moron. Where the fuck did all these retards like you come from all the sudden. You finally get up off the toilet after all the blood you shit from Trumps ass pounding or something?

        2. avatar Fudds McKenzie says:

          +1

      2. avatar CZJay says:

        If you are in Florida, Washington, etc, you recently lost and will lose again.

        1. avatar New Continental Army says:

          Incorrect. We recently won in Florida when we elected DeSantis, who is easily the most pro gun governor elected to Florida in decades. So go fuck yourself.

        2. avatar CZ Rider says:

          The governor can’t rewrite law. That’s kind of why everyone is all FDJT right now. I’m absolutely relieved that Desantis won, but real winning is getting that bullshit stricken from the Florida Statutes and replacing every single quisling asshole Republican who voted for it with a reliable 2A supporter. And getting open carry outside of fishing. Stupid law, that is…

        3. avatar Anonymous says:

          Incorrect. We recently won in Florida when we elected DeSantis, who is easily the most pro gun governor elected to Florida in decades. So go fuck yourself.

          Unless Desantis repeals prior gun controls, you aren’t winning anything.

    2. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      ” . . . especially you NRA fudds and Trumpkins . . .? And your alternative is what, pray tell? Can you name a single other presidential candidate who had a snowball’s chance of defeating Hillary?

      1. avatar CZJay says:

        Trump barely won although he was much hated because Hillary was far more hated even by Democrats. Meaning, it was possible that any middle of the spectrum Republican could have won if they were eloquently passionate in their delivery and aggressive in calling out the Clintons.

        For some reason Republicans think being respectful is being nice. You can call someone on their shit without being disrespectful. You have to be creative in your ruthlessness. The youth love when you pwn someone.

        Or you can simply burn people:

      2. avatar Fudds McKenzie says:

        Don’t whine to me, I don’t owe you a candidate. You don’t deserve better than Trump, it’s your nature to take what your given and like it.

        1. avatar New Continental Army says:

          Says the Hillary fan.

        2. avatar Fudds McKenzie says:

          Yeah, you too New. I was upset at first when Trump won and the community turned into groupies, but that was just me lacking perspective. The reality is you were always a mess. Trump losing would have kept you focused, but for what? To act like trash another day. Might as well get it over with.

          Same with a real RKBA candidate. You still can’t imagine that out of two people neither was, but holy shit, if by some miracle you did get a real pro-gun president you’d lose your minds. You haven’t found the RKBA within yourselves so an authority figure giving more of it back to you would look like Santa Clause. It would trigger your developmental failures and you’d assume the roll of child relative to a parent, more so than you already have with Trump if that’s possible.

        3. avatar New Continental Army says:

          You have some *serious* personal issues you need to work out, instead of projecting on others. I suggest you commit yourself, but do everyone a favor first, lead by example and turn your guns in to your local police. A mentally deranged person such as yourself shouldn’t be free to walk among the public.

  12. avatar possum says:

    Someone on TTAG ask if pinning the slide on a bumpstocks would make it legal. My guess is yes it would be legal. 94 had a no folding stock ban if Ivrember correctly, perhaps on certain weapons, aka was one. However at the time you could still purchase a folding stock with a permanently(/s) pinned folding stock. So I’m saying yes it’d be legal

    1. avatar possum says:

      S K S damnit. This spell check is hopped up on AK and AR15.
      Proofread possum

    2. avatar Geoff "You'll shoot your eye out, kid!" PR says:

      “Someone on TTAG ask if pinning the slide on a bumpstocks would make it legal. My guess is yes it would be legal.”

      If it was in any way possible to convert it back, likely NO…

    3. avatar CZJay says:

      A bump fire stock is considered a newly manufactured machine gun. You can’t produce machine guns then turn them into semi autos only and get away with keeping it. Newly manufactured machine guns have been illegal to produce without the proper licensing and approval. You can’t sell non government citizens newly manufactured machine guns for them to covert to semi auto guns.

      Get rid of it or hide it and risk going to prison for many years. Remember that Trump’s administration said they will go after all gun crimes to the fullest extent of the law and will make sure to put you away the maximum years they can. Good ol’ mandatory minimum sentences…

      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/07/us/politics/jeff-sessions-gun-charges.html

      Local police, who have for years sought more muscle from federal law enforcement, welcomed Mr. Sessions’s more aggressive approach.

      “We have been trying to send a message,” said J. Thomas Manger, president of the Major Cities Chiefs Association, which represents police departments across the country. “The bad guys have a real fear of federal prosecutions versus state prosecutions.”

      Penalties for federal gun convictions are steep. On average, firearms defendants spend six years in federal prison. If they are convicted under the two statutes requiring mandatory minimum sentences, that average jumps to 11 years.

      https://www.justice.gov/usao-az/pr/gun-dealers-sentenced-prison-manufacture-possession-and-sale-illegal-machine-guns

      “Enforcement of gun laws, particularly the regulation of machine guns, is essential to public safety. The defendants’ convictions and sentences demonstrate our commitment to prosecute those who violate gun laws, including licensed gun dealers,” said U.S. Attorney, John S. Leonardo.

      “This was a very challenging and complicated investigation involving machine guns (NFA weapons) and fraud. These Federal Firearms Licensees violated the public’s trust and defrauded countless customers of their NFA weapon purchases. I hope their lengthy sentences serve notice to those that might consider committing the same criminal acts,” stated ATF Special Agent in Charge, Thomas Atteberry.

      1. avatar possum says:

        Ah hah, score one the the BAFTE huh. Ratzzzzz

      2. avatar RH says:

        The ATF states on their website that they need to be destroyed or made permanently inoperable. Just like the thousands of machine gun kits that get imported, you can make a machine gun a non machine gun as will be the case with the bumpstocks if the strategy is a pin and weld kind of way to get rid of them.

        1. avatar CZJay says:

          California type workarounds do not apply when it comes to the ATF. You must completely destroy the machine gun by cutting it into pieces that cannot be easily put back together or not worth the effort. This turns the gun into a bunch of parts, as you chopped up the receiver as instructed. In the case of the bump fire stock, this turns it into a few pieces of plastic not worth keeping.

  13. avatar Defens says:

    Why dick around with this type of workaround, if it will likely make you a felon anyway? A drop in auto sear isn’t that difficult to make, and a lot easier to conceal when you aren’t actually using it.

    1. avatar possum says:

      No it isn’t, and it doesn’t work anyway.

  14. avatar Big Bubba says:

    Haven’t you been keeping up?
    Slide-Fire sent a sample of their product (bump stock) to the ATF for review.
    The ATF passed it.
    NOW…the “appliance” must be shipped to the ATF installed “as intended” on a firearm.
    If it “passes”, the ATF returns the gun and appliance.
    If it “fails”, the ATF retains both the appliance AND the firearm!

    1. avatar Freebird says:

      ILLEGAL , arbitrary , fiat rule making by a non-agency , never created by Congress.

      ” It’s not about bump stocks. It’s not even about the erosion of 2A. It’s the smashing to bits of Article I separation of powers. The executive branch just redefined “machine gun”, a term with a specific legal meaning in the National Firearms Act of 1934.As such, they effectively amended that law, and they did so unilaterally, without Congress.If this is allowed to stand, then we’ve opened the door to rule by executive fiat. The president will have no need to pressure Congress to send him bills to sign. The executive branch will simply regulate as they wish, and enact whatever they desire.If that’s not a constitutional crisis, I don’t know what is. ” —- Excellent comment from Arf-com

      1. avatar CZJay says:

        Even if you impeach Trump for unlawful/unconstitutional behaviors the order will still stand until someone chooses to reverse it. Who would reverse it? Would the Supreme Court even hear a case on it?

        The Supreme Court does not like to hear cases regarding the 2nd Amendment. They want to stay out of it so they don’t have to admit that the 2nd Amendment applies to all the states, that laws restricting/regulating arms are infringements and that every individual has the human right to own and carry any arms they want without permission.

        1. Not a problem. This isn’t a 2A issue, it’s an Ex Post Facto issue and 5A Takings issue, as well as a separation of powers issue.

          You should really read Sessions’ actual letter.

    2. That is not necessarily the case. As the ruling here stands (Which was NOT an ATF ruling, it was a Jeff Sessions on behalf of Donald F. Trump ruling ordered to ATF), the bumpfire stock is the MG, much as a DIAS is. The attached weapon is not itself under test, and would be returned. They’d keep the stock.

      What they’re saying is they can’t rule on a drawing, and they’ve had so many problems with “Accessories” that didn’t work when they installed them (Akins being a very notable case. They never got his device to work and informed him so, but he went ahead and started producing without a letter stating “This is not a firearm”), that they want YOU to provide the item and the test base and they’ll rule on that.

      I can’t really blame them. Too many idiots with CAD and a clever idea, who don’t actually put something together.

  15. avatar CZJay says:

    Of course it’s not a bump fire stock, it’s a machine gun, silly.

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      The second piece shown in the CAD photo appears to be a plastic “spring.” You can’t use springs; the ATF already told bump fire stock producers that when they first submitted their designs.

      With the new ATF rules, they will test the entire package to see if it fires at a high rate. If the gun does fire quickly without much effort, they will consider it a machine gun. Hopefully the designer is licensed to produce such things before he submits his machine gun.

      1. You can submit anything. You just won’t get it back if they don’t like and you’re not an SOT. This is long established. It is not a crime to submit a piece.

  16. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    The war an the poor to prevent them for getting equal firepower at a lower cost continues.

    Experienced firearms instructors are having negligent discharges, and even getting themselves killed. A Bump stock is no more dangerous than a real machine gun.

  17. avatar Michael says:

    “Only accurate rifles are interesting.” AR 15’s were not supposed to be “accurate”. Spray and pray rifles for use with spray and pray tactics to be used by a mostly urban conscript army with little or no firearms experience. Bump stocks make an “inaccurate” rifle even less accurate. They are fun to use…once. A round fired without purpose is a round wasted. -30-

    1. avatar CZ Rider says:

      Whatever you say, Elmer.

    2. avatar New Continental Army says:

      You’re a stupid person Michael.

    3. avatar CZJay says:

      Full auto is for up close confrontations and suppressive fire. Semi auto is for accurately putting rounds on target quickly. If you want precision you ditch the semi auto design completely.

      1. avatar Ferret427 says:

        That’s a stupid statement. There are many many sub moa semi auto rifles out there. Both my .308 and .300 blackout are sub moa all day long.

        1. avatar CZJay says:

          Tell the U.S. military that.

        2. The US military’s DMR and sniper rifles are semiauto now.

          Thanks for playing.

    4. 1973 called. They want their stupid folk rumor back.

  18. avatar rt66paul says:

    A round fired without purpose is a round wasted.

    The purpose is to enjoy firing off that round. While it may not be your cup o’ tea, the phrases “pursuit of happiness” and “shall not be infringed” come to mind.

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      We also didn’t give them the power to infringe, they took it. Now they demand we justify our liberty to them.

      “Who needs a ____ anyway? You don’t need a ____ to _____.”

  19. avatar L84Cabo says:

    Shut up and take my money!! And I could really care less about bump stocks…or this device. But I will buy it if for no other reason than to give a giant middle finger to our governmental overlords.

  20. avatar Minuteman says:

    Everybody wants to invent something to circumvent the ATF rulings. I say we keep it up and we will pay the price with many more things getting axed after more reviews. The gun community seems hell bent to push the limits. It will cost us in the end game.

    1. avatar possum says:

      There’s only one way to beat the King, and it’s not in a court room.

    2. Good point! Just go along with all the rules, in case they create more rules.

      Oh, wait, they just did that.

      Well, I guess that didn’t work, eh?

  21. avatar Geoff says:

    The ATF definition is flawed. A bump stock is not a “machine” gun because your trigger finger continuously manipulates the trigger after the reset each and every time, just as you can do without the bump stock.

    ATF definition.
    The term “machine gun” includes bump-stock-type devices, i.e., devices that allow a semiautomatic firearm to shoot more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger by harnessing the recoil energy of the semiautomatic firearm to which it is affixed so that the trigger resets and continues firing without additional physical manipulation of the trigger by the shooter.

    1. This is not the ATF’s definition.

      Jeffy Sessions, under orders from Donald “Take the guns first, due process second” Trump, wrote a letter that contradicted ATF and stated bumpfire stocks were contraband with no compensation, ex post facto.

      ATF is stuck enforcing it. They did not create it.

      Sessions created it on behalf of DFT.

      At the SPECIFIC DEMAND of the NRA, I might add.

  22. avatar jakee308 says:

    I thought the NRA had learned it’s lesson but apparently not. They’re confused on exactly what their membership is concerned about and what the NRA should do.

    Too many Fudds in the NRA in my view. I won’t be rejoining again. They just fail too often and I don’t want them to have my money to do what I don’t want them to do.

    It’s unfortunate.

    1. avatar possum says:

      I used to be a big NRA member, had NRA stickers plastered all over truck( cop magnets) 1994 was an eye opener on the NRA’s stance on gun control. The only thing they receive from me now is a possum turd.

  23. avatar Anonymous says:

    I have a solution here. It’s called just make a real machine gun. You hold down the trigger and bullets just keep coming. Doesn’t matter if you have no intent to hurt anyone. If virtue and innocence can fall victim to the law, then virtue and innocence itself is no security.

    1. I can afford three of those solutions. Most people can’t afford one. Ergo, it is not a solution, it is a platitude.

      1. avatar Anonymous says:

        Depends on what you think the problem is.

        What was platitudish about it?

        If they seek to “ban” victimless activities, what can you do but disobey. When the people (the reasonable ones) see others getting their families destroyed over victimless gun crimes – they may realign the victim not as a society of “gun violence” but as individual gun owners with no ill intent.

        The reason the alcohol ban on a federal level didn’t work, was because the malice of the punishment exceeded the malice of the illegal activity. And there was mass disobedience. If you are the minority, you have to play by the minority’s game. That means you resist, you disobey, and you show the world that your subjugators are more monstrous than you are. If you just follow along within their game, then you’ll become subjugated by it.

  24. avatar John says:

    Just call it a “Recoil Suppression Device”.

  25. avatar Enuf says:

    The ATF made up this new rule because Trump will fire Interim Director Thomas E. Brandon if he does give Trump want Trump wants. Which is some Gun Control to make some media like him.

    The new “Not-A-Bump-Stock”? Will have to wait and see what it really is but if the ATF executive level is already kowtowing to Trump to keep their jobs, what is going to stop them from simply saying it is already banned under the new rule? Or adding it as an amendment to that rule?

  26. ATF did not “wave a magic wand.”

    Jeffy Sessions, under orders from Donald “Take the guns first, due process second” Trump, wrote a letter that contradicted ATF and stated bumpfire stocks were contraband with no compensation, ex post facto.

    ATF is stuck enforcing it. They did not create it.

    Sessions created it on behalf of DFT.

  27. avatar Doug Kollar says:

    OK, OK, OK… Where can I get one?

  28. avatar Wally1 says:

    So, I foresee that this is the beginning of the “I will not comply” movement. Next will be a nationwide high capacity magazine regulation/ban. It will not stop until there is a fight or civil war. Time to stock up.

  29. avatar Anonymous says:

    Depends on what you think the problem is.

    What was platitudish about it?

    If they seek to “ban” victimless activities, what can you do but disobey. When the people (the reasonable ones) see others getting their families destroyed over victimless gun crimes – they may realign the victim not as a society of “gun violence” but as individual gun owners with no ill intent.

    The reason the alcohol ban on a federal level didn’t work, was because the malice of the punishment exceeded the malice of the illegal activity. And there was mass disobedience. If you are the minority, you have to play by the minority’s game. That means you resist, you disobey, and you show the world that your subjugators are more monstrous than you are. If you just follow along within their game, then you become subjugated by it.

  30. avatar PeterK says:

    Well the marketing is genius. Will have to pay attention, though I have zero desire for a bump stock. :p

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