BREAKING: Firearms Policy Coalition, Others File Lawsuit to Block Trump Bump Stock Ban

Trump bump stock ban lawsuit FPC firearms policy coalition

courtesy Washington Post and Evan Vucci/AP

Well that didn’t take long. H/T to Adam Kraut for the heads up . . .

Washington, D.C., Dec. 18, 2018 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) — Today, attorneys for an owner of a “bump-stock” device and three constitutional rights advocacy organizations filed a federal lawsuit against the Trump Administration’s new confiscatory ban on firearm parts, additionally challenging Matthew Whitaker’s legal authority to serve as Acting Attorney General and issue rules without being nominated to the role and confirmed by the Senate or by operation of law. A copy of the court filings can be viewed at www.bumpstockcase.com.

The plaintiffs also filed a motion seeking a temporary injunction to prevent the Trump Administration from implementing and enforcing the new regulation. The lawsuit, captioned as Guedes, et al. v. BATFE, et al., is backed by Firearms Policy Coalition (FPC), Firearms Policy Foundation (FPF), and Madison Society Foundation (MSF), also institutional plaintiffs in the case.

“Bump-stocks” were legal under federal law and prior determinations of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives until the agency issued a new final rulemaking today. Under the new rule, owners of the devices have just 90 days to surrender or destroy their property, after which they could face federal ‘machinegun’ charges that carry up to 10 years in prison and $250,000 in fines for each violation.

The plaintiffs are represented by attorneys Joshua Prince and Adam Kraut of Firearms Industry Consulting Group, a division of Civil Rights Defense Firm, P.C. Prince and Kraut previously filed a nearly 1,000-page formal opposition to the proposed regulation, which included a video exhibit showing the actual operation of a “bump-stock” device on an AR-15 type firearm. That opposition and its 35 exhibits can be viewed at www.bit.ly/fpc-bumpstock-reg-opposition.

“The ATF has misled the public about bump-stock devices,” Prince said. “Worse, they are actively attempting to make felons out of people who relied on their legal opinions to lawfully acquire and possess devices the government unilaterally, unconstitutionally, and improperly decided to reclassify as ‘machineguns’. We are optimistic that the court will act swiftly to protect the rights and property of Americans who own these devices, and once the matter has been fully briefed and considered by the court, that the regulation will be struck down permanently.”

In a January statement, Firearms Policy Coalition said that the federal “DOJ and BATFE clearly lack the statutory authority to re-define the targeted devices as ‘machineguns.’” Following that, in February, FPC also commented that as they “opposed the lawless manner in which President Obama often ruled by ‘pen-and-a-phone’ executive fiat,” they objected to and would fight “President Trump’s outrageous lawlessness here.”

“In its rulemaking, the Trump Administration is attempting to abuse the system, ignore the statutes passed by the Congress, and thumb its nose at the Constitution without regard to the liberty and property rights of Americans. That is unacceptable and dangerous,” explained Adam Kraut, an attorney for the plaintiffs. “It is beyond comprehension that the government would seek establish a precedent that it can arbitrarily redefine terms and subject thousands of people to serious criminal liability and the loss of property.”

Anyone who owns a “bump-stock” device and who would like to consider participating in the case should contact the FPC/FPF Legal Action Hotline at https://www.firearmspolicy.org/hotline or (855) 252-4510 (available 24/7/365) as soon as possible.

Firearms Policy Coalition (www.firearmspolicy.org) is a 501(c)4 grassroots nonprofit organization. FPC’s mission is to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, especially the fundamental, individual Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.

Firearms Policy Foundation (www.firearmsfoundation.org) is a 501(c)3 grassroots nonprofit organization. FPF’s mission is to defend the Constitution of the United States and the People’s rights, privileges and immunities deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition, especially the inalienable, fundamental, and individual right to keep and bear arms.

Madison Society Foundation (www.madison-society.org) is a 501(c)(3) grassroots nonprofit based in California. It promotes and preserves the purposes of the Constitution of the United States, in particular the right to keep and bear arms. MSF provides the general public and its members with education and training on this important right.

comments

    1. avatar fat willy joe says:

      NRA wussed out.

      1. And I opted out of the NRA

      2. avatar SouthAl says:

        “NRA wussed out”. No, they started this. Got exactly what they wanted. Watch the mail box traffic from them increase.

        1. avatar Nanashi says:

          NRA Board of Directors
          NRA Office of the Secretary
          11250 Waples Mill Road
          Fairfax, VA 22030

      3. avatar Chris T in KY says:

        FYI

        From 2017: Marion Hammer: NRA Never Wanted Legal Machine Guns, Bump Fire Stocks

        https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/luis-valdes/marion-hammer-nra-never-wanted-legal-machine-guns-bump-fire-stocks/

        1. avatar Binder says:

          Yikes, I thought they were NOT machine guns. Please someone make up their minds.

        2. avatar HP says:

          The NRA board needs a serious purging. I don’t think the organization should be abandoned, but things need to change.

        3. avatar UsedtobePun says:

          HP – you do realize that Adam Kraut, one of the lawyers mentioned above trying to fight this, is and has been running to get on the NRA board of directors right?

          You do realize he’s the face of the “radical 2nd amendment absolutist” contingent “trying to take over” the NRA right?

          If NRA members truly want to see change then they need to make their voices heard and replace the current regime…

        4. avatar Eric says:

          I made an offer to participate in the case if they would add a “Second Amendment claim”.
          Offer rejected.
          I will likely file my own suit if I can find the funds.
          [email protected]

    2. avatar Jmr says:

      Why would they fight something they called for?

    3. avatar AZgunner says:

      I quit the NRA after they came out in support of a bump stick ban. I don’t own one, but I don’t need my money going to an organization which is actively working against my interests.

    4. avatar Charlie Foxtrot says:

      Adam Kraut is one of the lawyers on this case. He does that for the FPC and not for the NRA. He is, however, running again for a NRA Board of Directors seat again: http://www.adamkraut.com and https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/01/luis-valdes/nra-2018-board-candidate-adam-kraut-marion-hammer-not-enemy-firearms-freedom/

      The NRA just issued a statement (https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/12/daniel-zimmerman/nra-disappointed-by-trump-bump-stock-ban/). The NRA leadership does not want to fight this. They plea for amnesty, which the ATF legally can not do. That would require an act of Congress. More smoke and mirrors from the NRA.

      There has been recently an article about replacing Wayne LaPierre (https://www.ammoland.com/2018/12/who-should-be-next-executive-vice-president-of-nra/#axzz5a5BBONad). Oddly enough, today, on the day of the bump stock ban, there has been an article supporting Wayne LaPierre (https://www.ammoland.com/2018/12/my-choice-next-nra-evp-is/#axzz5a5BBONad).

    5. avatar frank speak says:

      ATF came down too hard…is this what trump wanted?…..we;ll see….

  1. avatar pwrserge says:

    Go Kraut GO! Adam is exactly the kind of lawyer we need in the profession.

    1. avatar rosignol says:

      Details?

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Go look at Adam’s legal brief videos. He actually takes the time to lay out a lot of legal details that people often miss.

        1. avatar Binder says:

          I just reviewed his “exhibits”.

          The best case is that he wins a class action that results in a $200 payout for each owner (minus lawyer fees)

          Worse case, he gets all semi-auto rifles banned.

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          Objectively, he has an outstanding case. Based on the way the language of the rule was written (basically filling it with constitutional issues), I smell someone who has figured out that a strategic offensive often requires a feigned retreat.

        3. avatar HP says:

          @Binder

          The next time we have a Dem President and Senate/House, semi-auto’s are going to be banned anyway. Here’s top hoping Adam can shake things up.

        4. avatar Eric says:

          I did offer to participate in the case if they would add a “Second Amendment claim”.
          Offer rejected.
          I will likely file my own suit if I can find the funds.
          [email protected]

  2. avatar Hannibal says:

    It really is insane that people who bought this device after the ATF declared it fine are now expected to just dump them. Is there even any compensation offered?

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      Other than 10 years of ass pounding at club fed if you don’t bend over? No.

  3. avatar Stateisevil says:

    Injunction denied, case dismissed. Cuz guns. We need Trump out of there ASAP. Hope he gets impeached. We need GOP fanboys riled up, we need the evil GOP to have a bugaboo to rail against in a flaming retard Demonrat. The precedent this sets is frightening to say the least.

    1. avatar GunnyGene says:

      You scare easy, do you? Hmmm. Boo!

      1. avatar Stateisevil says:

        Myopia. When President O’Rourke bans your AR and standard cap mags by fatwah, we’ll see that more people should have been scared. Oh well, all of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again.

        1. avatar Straight Talk says:

          Trigger warning; tough love to follow…

          Wake the F up POG! Quotes “…Trump is doomed…no chance in 2020…dictator…”… STFU and see the big picture!

          Name me another president that is going to the mat on illegal immigration, as the Dems attempt to flood the country with 3rd world voters?

          Name me another president that is attempting to end China’s 2025 plan of replacing the U.S. as the world’s global and super power?

          Name me another president that confronts the liars and smear merchants of the MSM?

          While you fight over bump stocks… hey look over there, it’s shinny… this country is having the life sucked out of it. This is not to say to capitulate on the ban, far from it. The thing is, this is potentially good, as it will be tied up in the courts for years, vs. congress passing a law that would be more difficult to fight and win.

          There is no perfect person, any of you married a perfect a woman? Doesn’t exist, we take the bad with the good, and look for (way) more good than bad. If Hillary was president or a Dem becomes president in 2020 (try this on for size… President “Major” C_ _ _. Harris…) bump stocks will be the least of your worries.

          D.J.T. got one thing spot on “…dems terrible policy, but stick together like glue…”. We, to our determent, …not so much.

          P.S. (I have to call this out, can’t leave it alone) To the commentator that said “..2020 is a dead deal, Trump just committed political suicide. So, we need to focus all our energy on keeping at least one house of Congress and retaking both of them. For the next 6 years we’re back to playing defense. In 2024 then we’ll have a chance to get a real pro gun candidate in the GOP primary…”

          That is either the dumbest comment in a long time, or you are a DNC plant. The rules have changed with illegal immigration flooding the country, (OVER 22 million atm and waves of “caravans” literately at our door banging to get in) vote stealing, see ballot harvesting in…where else…California, out of state voting in Nevada(that turned it blue), barely winning in Texas, Georgia, and Florida, and coming to a town near you(!)…Online absentee ballot voting for every state, i’m sure that won’t be hacked.

          Yeah, 2024, Wake TFU! This country won’t survive a Dem in 2020, not as we know currently know it. Your playing by the old rules, the Dems reset those rules 2 years ago, and there’s a new playbook in town.

          Trump’s your president, he’s fighting the good fight, why don’t you get your keyboards behind him.

        2. avatar GunnyGene says:

          I repeat. Boo!

        3. avatar HP says:

          What has been is what will be,
          and what has been done is what will be done;
          there is nothing new under the sun.

    2. avatar New Continental Army says:

      Calm down. The court has come down on our side before. And conservative judges are much more plentiful now then they used to be.

    3. avatar strych9 says:

      “The precedent this sets is frightening to say the least.”

      If you want to go with this line of thought at least put in the fact that Trump’s not setting a precedent, he’s following it. Obama did exactly this kind of thing but no one on TTAG cared because the topic wasn’t guns. Instead it was “navigable waterways” or a bunch of other things. Presidents prior to Obama did the same sort of shit too. For instance, I mentioned Janet Reno effectively rewriting a definition for the GFSZA so that the commerce clause would apply even though the Rehnquist court had already slapped that down.

      Regulatory overreach and the creation of law by fiat have been both a problem affecting many areas of life for a long, long time. People here just notice now that guns are involved. Just do some research on federal “activities” at the BLM, BIA, DOT, DOE, DOE (energy and education btw), DOJ, EPA, FDA, FEC etc etc etc over the last 50 or so years.

      This shit ain’t new. It’s just finally touched something you care about.

  4. avatar Ruthless Objectivity says:

    What on earth does President Trump hope to accomplish here? This won’t mollify his opponents; indeed, it will likely serve only to strengthen them. This won’t do anything for his supporters but anger them. In all fairness, acts like this illustrate the reason I could not – in good conscience – vote for President Trump in 2016, and why I will not vote for him in 2020, despite being a semi-rabid pro 2A advocate: he has strong authoritarian tendencies in all the wrong places.

    1. avatar Straight Talk says:

      You’re just looking to justify your failed vote or non vote in 2016. And as such you’re turning your back on the 2A. See my comment above for reference.

      1. avatar Ruthless Objectivity says:

        I’m not trying to “justify” anything. I gave one of the main reasons I did not vote for president Trump in 2016, and will likely not in 2020. For what it’s worth, I also did not vote for Clinton. I vote for those who will uphold – first and foremost – the first and second amendments. If I believe (correctly, as it’s turning out) that a candidate will not uphold one or both of those, I will not vote for that candidate. Read into that what you like.

        1. avatar balais says:

          Same here!

          I didn’t believe anything DJT said about supporting gun rights or the 2A. The whole thing was forced bullshit and the NRA should have never bought into it.

          Now they stand to get dragged down with him. Nobody applies the ‘guilt by association’ machete like anti-gunners and the illiberal pseudoleft.

      2. avatar TheUnspoken says:

        I did vote for him, and these lawsuits will tie up a lot of time and money that could be spent fighting for other things, so even if we win, we kinda already lost, slide fire doesn’t even make them anymore, many states have banned them already. We do still need to win this, but it would have been infinitely better to not be fighting this battle

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Depends on the conditions of victory. If we use this to put a boot on the neck of the administrative state and challenge bans in general? It would be worth it.

        2. avatar Stan Darsh says:

          No one makes them anymore, not Slidefire, not BFS nor Fostech. In fact only Fostech is still in existence, albeit just barely. Trump could have easily made a big thing about the companies and the administration reaching an agreement of stoping production and grandfathering in the countless existing units without the need for an overreaching executive and bureaucratic fiat re-interpreting the NFA and doing so without congressional approval.

      3. avatar Trollolol says:

        Good job voting on a gun grabber and then defending, way to go Boomer

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Please point me to the guns that Trump has actually grabbed.

    2. avatar strych9 says:

      “What on earth does President Trump hope to accomplish here? This won’t mollify his opponents; indeed, it will likely serve only to strengthen them. This won’t do anything for his supporters but anger them.”

      Pompey Magnus probably said something akin to this about Caesar. In fact, it’s known that he did. Didn’t work out very well for Pompey.

      I don’t like what’s been done with this ATF revision but, since I really have no other choice, I’m going to wait and see what happens. I will do so knowing that lots of people throughout history have done things that seemed very, very strange at the time but were part of some larger plan that others didn’t understand. Sometimes they worked and sometimes they didn’t but the lesson to be learned from all of them is that when you don’t see the whole picture it’s foolish to assume the other guy is stupid. A whole bunch of British Generals learned this the hard when when dealing with Rommel.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Just don’t take any trips to Egypt or lose your head.

        What this gives is is an opportunity to fight a SCotUS case while we have a solid chance in the court. If the court decides that bans, as opposed to taxation, are unconstitutional in general, that would have amazing results for us.

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          “Just don’t take any trips to Egypt or lose your head.”

          *snicker*

        2. avatar Phil Wilson says:

          The SCOTUS doesn’t tend to rule any more broadly than needed. If this goes to the SCOTUS, I think they’ll rule on whether Trump’s interpretation of the law is consistent with the law. And if Roberts decides that Trump’s is consistent with the intent of the law…well, you saw what he did with Obamacare. He’s rewritten one law from the bench, why not another?

    3. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Ruthless,

      Let’s be honest:
      (1) There are only two viable candidates in U.S. Presidential elections.
      (2) One of those candidates will be blase about the 2nd Amendment.
      (3) The other candidate will be hostile to the 2nd Amendment.

      If you fail to vote for the candidate who is blase about the 2nd Amendment, you are enabling our political enemies to install the candidate who is hostile to the 2nd Amendment.

      Please tell me how it is virtuous and good to have a U.S. President who is hostile to the 2nd Amendment.

      And please tell me how it is virtuous and good when that U.S. Presidential candidate who is hostile to the 2nd Amendment brings a majority along with them (as is almost always the case) to Congress who are also hostile to the 2nd Amendment.

      Oh, and when you finish answering those two requests, please tell me how it is virtuous and good when that U.S. Presidential candidate who is hostile to the 2nd Amendment nominates judges (who are also hostile to the 2nd Amendment) to appellate courts and the U.S. Supreme Court.

      The time and place to abstain from voting for U.S. Presidential candidates who have a lackluster position on the 2nd Amendment is in the primaries, NOT THE GENERAL ELECTION.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        ^He’s right you know…

    4. avatar frank speak says:

      think the jury’s still out on whether trump is a true supporter of gun rights…….

      1. avatar HP says:

        I’ve always felt that most pro 2-A people realized Trump was mostly ignorant and indifferent about gun rights, and that the hope was Don Jr. could catch his father’s ear and steer him in the right direction.

    5. avatar balais says:

      I agree completely. No gun owner should have believed him and the NRA shouldn’t have hitched their wagon to him. Big mistake. The guy is a criminal, arguably a traitor, and is, most assuredly, morally impaired in the worst way.

      The damage he will cause to the pro gun rights side will be immense.

  5. avatar New Continental Army says:

    Good.

  6. avatar Gun Owning American says:

    Time to join a gun rights org.

  7. avatar rosignol says:

    The ban seems ill-conceived and ill-executed, so much so that I wonder if pwrserge is correct. If Trump wanted to do this, surely Congress passing a law and him signing it would be the way to go.

    If this gets shot down, yeah, establishing a precedent that the government cannot ban devices after the fact would be a solid win that will make Bloomberg and similar ilk re-consider what they can lawfully do about our standard-capacity magazines, semiautomatic everything, and so on.

    I am concerned that it will not be shot down, and a precedent will be created that says it is lawful for the government to say “you have to give it up”. A great deal depends on the judges that hear the case and appeals, and how deep the pockets funding the lawsuit are.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      That’s the beauty of it. We get to file as many lawsuits as we like. Every district court is a separate venue. We only have to win once.

      1. avatar Aaron says:

        In reference to 3D chess……makes me wonder ……look how obamacare is being struck down.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Shiteatinggrin.jpg

          Now watch him pull a wall out of his hat.

          I can’t spare that man, he fights. More importantly, he fights dirty.

        2. avatar Phil Wilson says:

          I get what you are saying, and you may be right. But there’s a concern. Obamacare was designed to fail, to set up an argument for full socialized medicine. They would have blamed the failure on the GOP and free markets anyway [with a straight face], but now their arguments will have a veneer of plausibility.

          They’ll lie loudly and proudly that Obamacare was working just fine before the GOP killed it with their legal trickery. 95% of the media, teachers in public schools, university profs, and tech info giants will all push their lie. The entertainment industry will back them up by lacing the lie through movies and TV. Then, next time the Dems control both houses and the white house, we get socialized medicine. Again, that might have happened anyway, even if Obamacare were allowed to naturally implode on it’s own, but the way it was done helps them make their argument.

        3. avatar pwrserge says:

          Socialized medicine? Really? What magic wand do you think the Democommies are planning to wave to generate an extra 3 Trillion dollars per year in revenue? That would require almost doubling all federal incomes.

  8. avatar Rob Fisher says:

    First post and voted for the now asshole orange man.

    FUCK TRUMP, you just lost my vote in 2020. I simply will not show up. Please don’t threaten me with partisan BS either. You’re now against 2A, now you pay!!!

    1. avatar Geoff "You'll shoot your eye out, kid!" PR says:

      ” I simply will not show up.”

      Pelosi and the rest of the Democrats are *LAUGHING* at you and counting on you not showing up.

      You just handed them a free vote. Thanks a lot, asshole.

      YOU are the one who hates the 2A…

  9. avatar Gun Owning American says:

    Dumbass president.

    1. avatar TTAG Troll Patrol says:

      @ Rob Fisher & Gun Owning American (Snicker, not very inventive name for a Troll)

      Haha, Nice try trolls, the DNC says to be home by 10:00. Now run along.. Run along Trolls, Run, Run Run!

  10. avatar ryan sabin says:

    In other news, sales for pvc burial tubes and shovels skyrocket… This is setting a dangerous precedent…

  11. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    To Liberal Gun Owners, do you support this lawsuit?
    Do you think the poor should have access to the ownership of less expensive rapid fire weapons?

    Or do you believe only the rich should have NFA items?

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      think the answer to that was expressed long ago…the govt.does not want widespread ownership of automatic weapons…or anything that approximates that…certainly not after they have been misused…

  12. avatar Ralph says:

    I’m gald the case is being brought — but it’s a waste of time.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      Legally speaking, he has a very solid case. The ATF is out in left field and the know it.

      All I know is that every time people think Trump is crazy, he manages to hit the commiecrats with a new brick and sock combo. Notice how the house GOP is now suspiciously short on “never Trump” traitors?

      1. avatar Warlocc says:

        Not a solid case at all. Courts have already ruled in favor of the ban at the state level.

        1. avatar Charlie Foxtrot says:

          Wow! Everyone quiet please! We have an Internet attorney here who knows things. LOL

          Dude, you have no clue whatsoever. State-level bump stock bans were enacted via state-level LEGISLATION. You know, the process where the state legislature enacts a law. This federal bump stock ban was enacted by executive fiat, rewriting federal regulations on how an already existing law should be implemented. You are comparing apples to oranges here!

          Yes, the FPC has actually a very solid case. Why? Read the Argument section in its entirety in the Motion for Preliminary Injunction for starters: https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/firearmspolicycoalition/pages/4959/attachments/original/1545161072/2-MPI.pdf?1545161072

          You may actually be surprised if you chose to educate yourself on the matter and not just spout absolute garbage.

  13. avatar Stuart K says:

    Just opened recurring donation to FPC.

    NRA F’d us over, no more $$$.

    1. avatar Anymouse says:

      My wife and I each donate to charities at this time of year. FPF just earned my $1000.

      1. avatar Eric says:

        I offered to participate in the case if they would add a “Second Amendment claim”.
        Offer rejected.
        I will likely file my own suit if I can find the funds.
        About 1,500 start to finish in federal court.
        [email protected]

  14. avatar HoundDogDave says:

    I will now lend my support to the leftist attempt to impeach Donald J Trump. If we can get him out before the end of his term then maybe, just maybe we can get someone who will defend the U.S.Constitution and our 2nd amendment rights to run against the Democratic candidate. If not, I won’t vote for him if he runs again regardless if that means the left takes over. What good is it to have someone on your 6 with their knife pressed between your shoulder blades?

    1. avatar What a farce says:

      I don’t think you get it, the situation is a bit worse than what you think.

      Illegals keep coming in, everyday. Younger voters, who represent the future, are more liberal than conservative. Key states such as FL are slowly but surely becoming blue.

      Trump was most likely the last hope for conservatives, and it turns out he is just another slug. There is no way a honest, pro Constitution candidate wins a Presidential election. You probably have more chances to win the mega million playing one ticket/year, than seeing one such candidate ever winning the GOP or DNC convention. The system has been rigged for a very long time. We did not manage to become such a banana republic overnight, not even under Obama, it began way before all that, decades ago at least.

  15. avatar What a farce says:

    The conservative snowflakes who believed EVERYTHING Trump said are hilarious. Some are starting to realize he is just another crooked politician who puts his mob and interests before anything else, at all cost. It cracks me up to read “he just lost my vote for 2020”. Guess what? He doesn’t care! He just lost your vote over a bump stock ban, is that really what you care about? How is that drain the swamp thing going? Education? Healthcare? Border security? No more troops overseas serving the globalists? Oh yeah, the freaking bump stocks, I am so mad now he just lost my vote with this one! Bwahahaha. Why do you think democracy is allowed in powerful western nations? Because the elite knows very well, no matter what, the people will keep voting for crooks and idiots. What was the “choice” again? Hillary, Trump, and some other irrelevant loonies? Wonderful. We are a banana republic.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      Um… have you been paying attention? Taxes are down, wages are up, the wall is about to get built, and Obamacare is on life support.

      1. avatar What a farce says:

        Sorry, as a midclass average Joe I have not noticed the difference. I live in a red state, so it’s not like the local DNC crooks are ruining the good stuff for me.

        Taxes are down? We will see when I file my tax return.

        Wages are up? Where?

        Obamacare is on life support. Not a bad thing, but we still have nothing, insurance is ridiculously expensive as well as the bills for any kind of care. It fascinates me the medias and politicians always fail to mention we get charged multiple times what they get charged in Germany or France for dental care, an x ray, etc. For the same service/product. The problem starts here.

        The wall? It will be a partial wall. It will slow down the bleeding but that’s about it.

        Trump is not only failing to “drain the swamp”, he picks people for his administration straight from the swamp.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Taxes down? Yes. I’m taking home an extra $500 every paycheck. (and I do live in a blue state)
          Wages up? Yes. Look at the FY 2017 wage growth. It’s not across the board, but it’s the first real increase in years.
          We pay more because our medical services aren’t heavily subsidized and you’re not paying 70% income taxes to fund it.
          As to the wall… yeah… I’ve been wondering what trick he’s going to pull. I think I’ve called it this time, but I’m going to keep it to myself.

      2. avatar CZJay says:

        Wait… I thought I saw taxes are going up soon on some people because of the tax cuts, wages went down a lot and were going back up, the stock market went on a record drop, GM fired thousands because of tariffs, Ford put a lot of people on part time and are thinking of firing thousands because of tariffs, other corporations have fired a bunch of people, the “wall” doesn’t have many supporters on either side, Obama care is still alive and Republicants want to keep it, etc.

        I hope you are not watching Alex “The Liar” Jones; that guy is such a shill now. Even the alt right are not happy with Trumps first two years and are calling him out, which is why he is being very aggressive about the wall now by threatening shutting down the game/government. This bump fire stock issue is going to make the alt right even more upset.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          You have no idea who the alt-right are… do you? HINT: the actual alt-right have never liked Trump. According to them, he’s owned by the JOOS. Well, at least they have that in common with the left.

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          FYI CZ… You might want to take a look at the overall unemployment numbers. They are the lowest in DECADES.

      3. avatar EWTHeckman says:

        Are you sure we’re getting the wall?

        On Tuesday, the Trump administration announced its willingness to back off of its demands for full funding for a border wall in the newest continuing resolution to fund the government. White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders told Fox News, “we have other ways that we can get to that $5 billion that we’ll work with Congress.” She explained, “At the end of the day, we don’t want to shut down the government. We want to shut down the border.”

        Today has been a banner day for the Trump administration. Not!

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          We’ll see… Given that we just found out that Flynn had his 5th amendment rights violated… It seems ok to me.

      4. avatar frank speak says:

        …and the lordstown plant is closing…while jobs are shifting to mexico…so much for trump’s corporate “friends” at GM….these greedy bastards can just not be trusted….especially around the holidays…lots of “scrooges” out there!….

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          … and yet unemployment is at multi-decade lows… it’s almost like you’re not getting the full story from the left wing propaganda “media”.

  16. avatar Stick and Rudder says:

    Everyone talking about Trump’s 4D chess moves need to see the bigger picture. This is opening up the door for banning “rate increasing devices.”

    Bumpstocks are just the tip of the iceberg. Vague language like “rate increasing devices” could mean just about anything. They’ll start with bumpstocks then go after aftermarket triggers then say “well technically a magazine is “rate increasing…”

    So what’s the best case scenario here? Aftermarket parts require a tax stamp?

    Long story short. They’re coming after semiautomatics…. If there’s something you want I’d think about buying it soon….

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      only to have it ruled illegal.?..and a felony attached for possession?….they’re setting a precedent here that needs to be vigorously opposed…

  17. avatar pwrserge says:

    Fuck the ignorant libertardians and concern trolls are out in force today.

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      Are you stupid or a liar?

      You were arguing 4D chess plays and now you are dismissing your failure. Are you from some communist nation trying to subvert?

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        There is no “failure” the game has barely begun. Talk to me after the dust from the court cases settles.

        1. avatar CZJay says:

          You know how long it could take to go through the courts and get a supreme court decision? I have been waiting decades for that one case that would return the 2nd Amendment to it’s plain text intention for everyone. As time goes on the situation only gets worse. When I’m an very old man more states will be just like California — waiting for the NRA to help them and that one miracle case to save their state.

        2. avatar pwrserge says:

          It takes as long as it takes. In the meantime, this rule will be in regulatory limbo due to the preliminary injunction that will almost certainly be granted.

    2. avatar Stick and Rudder says:

      So you have to be a troll or “libertardian” to state the obvious…. This is a guy who openly stated take the guns without due process on numerous occasions.

      Trump is a gaudy businessman that shits into a golden toilet. His idea of the 2nd amendment is a j-frame stashed under a pair of thousand dollar dress socks in some golden penthouse suite overlooking the park….

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Lol… ok…

        Trump says a lot of things… Funny how his plans have a tendency to work out.

        1. avatar frank speak says:

          ….like red-flag laws?….he certainly sold us out on that one….

    3. avatar balais says:

      You contards hitched your wagon to a traitor, a criminal, and a morally impaired mob boss-like character. Don’t get pissed at us.

      Republicans had the house, the senate, and the presidency, and they didn’t end the war on drugs, the war on terror, and the national security surveillance state. Fuck em.

      Maybe when the communists and socialists really use the worse aspects of those 3 things conservatives could have ended a long time ago, people will start paying attention.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Yeah.. How dare we not let you get stoned, fuck goats, and run around in a suicide vest?

        1. avatar balais says:

          What a moronic and childish comment. I didn’t know we needed those three aforementioned things to keep us in line from getting stoned (which isn’t a crime), fucking goats, and wearing a suicide vest.

          What did society do without the expansive and omnipresent national security state!? OMG!!

          Fucking contards. With ‘friends’ like you for gun rights, who needs enemies?

  18. avatar Enuf says:

    Exactly what I expected out of Donald Trump and Wayne La Pierre.

    Who the hell votes for these con men anyway?

  19. avatar CZJay says:

    Sounds like Military Arms Channel is going to catch a case for the rest of us:

    1. avatar Stick and Rudder says:

      Gotta admit… That Military Arms dude puts his money where his mouth is….

  20. avatar Nanashi says:

    Meanwhile the NRA is just “disappointed” and sitting on their ass since they got the exact thing they wanted.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      does seem like GOA does have our best interests, at heart…maybe we’re sending our money to the wrong people….

      1. avatar Eric says:

        I recently offered to participate in the case if they would add a “Second Amendment claim”.
        Offer rejected.
        I will likely file my own suit if I can find the funds.
        [email protected]

    2. avatar KG MAIDEN says:

      And the NRA leadership (lol lol) cash yet another six and seven figure pay check. So who are the fools? Wake up folks! GOA GOA GOA, FPC FPC FPC, 2A FOUNDATION 2A FOUNDATION 2A FOUNDATION and your state pro 2A groups! GOT IT?

  21. avatar possum says:

    I hope they ban bumpstocks, Semi-Auitos, shotguns, 22 rifles, and anything with a pipe and two by four. It’s a frickin joke. This whole country is becoming a joke. Build a wall, waste of money. Fine the shit out of employers hiring illegal immigrants, problem solved. Trump ha ha ha, The best four word joke I’ve heard yet is Donald Trump for President.

  22. avatar Don from CT says:

    The thing to remember folks is that this is NOT a 2A fight.

    Its a 5A fight. This is about the government retroactively outlawing something and as such “taking” it. This kind of tyranny can be applied to anything.

    Imagine if your truck, which passes all federal regs was retroactively outlawed and you were forced to either destroy it or turn it into the Government??

    It wouldn’t stand.

    As such, I do expect that surprisingly the ACLU will join in, just as they did when the idea of a terror watch list based, no-fly no-buy gun control was proposed. In that case its about due process. Which the ACLU supports aggressively.

    This is just a reminder that in 2016, Trump was not a “good” choice. He was just the least terrible choice.

    Don

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      The ACLU in 2018 is a bunch of pinko-commie scumbags. They don’t even pretend to be pro-individual rights anymore.

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        They found out that people don’t donate as much when you defend stuff they don’t like. Lost a lot of memberships. Sure, freedom of speech, but we don’t want you defending NAZIS! Then all of the sudden ‘NAZI’ applies to everything to the political right of Hillary Clinton.

      2. avatar Don from CT says:

        You are absolutely, completely wrong. They have been very active in the 1A, 4A, and 5A arenas. Yes, they defend a lot of the commie stuff. But that doesn’t change the fact that they do some very very good work.

      3. avatar Don from CT says:

        For example. They signed on WITH the NRA against any no-fly, no-buy legislation. Their justification was that the no-fly list is a secret list with no process to get yourself off the list.

        As such, it denies you your right to due process under the law. This isn’t a problem when it comes to flying. you are free to travel by other means. But it is illegal when it comes to purchasing a gun for two reasons. 1) there isn’t any other way to legally purchase a gun. 2) the law specifically defines who is a prohibited person. This goes outside that law.

  23. avatar luigi says:

    King Donald really went and stepped in it now

  24. avatar Eric says:

    I offered to participate in the case if they would add a “Second Amendment claim”.
    Offer rejected.
    I will likely file my own suit if I can find the funds.
    [email protected]

  25. avatar John says:

    I’m still having a hard time with idiot statements in their discussion like:
    “Bump-stock-devices allow a semiautomatic firearm to shoot more than one shot with a single trigger pull.”
    That is the stupidest crap I’ve ever heard.

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