Two Proposed Florida Ballot Measures Would Require Registration, Ban Most Semi-Automatic Firearms

A constitutional amendment has been proposed for Florida’s 2020 ballot that would ban most semi-automatic long guns in the state. The petition drive and effort is being pushed by a Miami-based organization known as Ban Assault Weapons NOW (BAWN) and they have some big names in their corner. A former Republican member of the Florida Senate is part of their committee, of course, to give it a bipartisan veneer.

Their mission statement is simple:

Congress won’t act. The Florida Legislature won’t act. The only way to ban assault weapons like AR-15s and other weapons of war is for the people of Florida to go to the polls and vote. This campaign will place an amendment on the 2020 ballot in Florida to do what our elected leaders refuse to: Ban Assault Weapons NOW.

According to the Tampa Bay Times, the group has raised nearly $410,000 since March, while spending almost $284,000, according to finance information. The expenditures included $75,000 last month to a California-based company for what was described in the finance information as “petitions.”

Our own research into BAWN shows that they have a lengthy donation record through the Florida Department of State records.

Additionally, they are part of ActBlue, a nonprofit technology organization established in June 2004 that enables Democrats, progressive groups, and nonprofits to raise money on the internet by providing them with online fundraising software. Its stated mission is to “empower small-dollar donors.” Basically it’s a leftist GoFundMe for their pet political causes.

Here is the actual petition.

If this petition gets enough signatures and passes in 2020, it would designate any semi-automatic long gun in Florida with a capacity of more than ten rounds an “assault weapon” and ban them for future sale or possession. Additionally, it would require that Floridians register their firearms with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

Failure to do so or possession after the grace period would be a third degree felony and that would automatically strip Floridians of their Second Amendment rights. Furthermore, this would also invalidate Florida Criminal Statute 790.335 and 790.336, the prohibition on registration and keeping of lists/records.

Still another more radical ballot measure is being proposed by Stop The Killing. Their goal is to outright ban the ownership of all firearms with a capacity of more than seven rounds in Florida. A search of their financial records show they’ve had little support of any kind so far. But their mission statement is plain as day.

To change the Constitution of the State of Florida to include banning the ownership of military style weapons by private persons and restricting the ownership or possession of guns by criminals, habitual law breakers, repeat abusers, and persons who make violent threats to others.

The actual petition can be read in full here.

In the end, Florida’s gun-grabbers haven’t quit. Even though they didn’t gain control of the Governor’s office, they now have the Commissioner of Agriculture & Consumer Services’ seat and that controls Florida’s concealed carry weapon permit system. Look for newly-elected commissioner Nikki Fried to use her office as a bully pulpit to support one of these ballot measures.

comments

  1. avatar pwrserge says:

    You want a Civil War? Because that’s how you get a Civil War.

    1. avatar Swarf says:

      Seriously.

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        stupid talk…that just plays into their hands…making non-compliance a felony is part of their overall plan to strip us of our gun rights in piecemeal fashion….

        1. avatar Geoff "Mess with the bull, get the horns" PR says:

          Luis failed to mention something –

          As I understand it, for the ballot measure to pass, it requires 60 percent to pass.

          That isn’t likely to happen in Florida until Florida turns a lot more solid blue.

          On the upside, if it does make it to the ballot, it will motivate our side to show up and vote. So, I hope it does show up on the 2020 ballot, because Florida’s electoral collage votes could end up handing re-election to Trump.

          This on the ballot in 2020 could end up being very good for us…

        2. avatar Dave Huff says:

          No, that is not stupid talk.
          I find your statement arrogant and condescending!

      2. avatar anonymous says:

        Congress won’t act. The Florida Legislature won’t act. The only way to ban assault weapons like AR-15s and other weapons of war is for the people of Florida to go to the polls and vote. This campaign will place an amendment on the 2020 ballot in Florida to do what our elected leaders refuse to: Ban Assault Weapons NOW.

        1) Why isn’t congress acting???
        Because it’s not the congresses job to change culture. Freedom to have stuff isn’t the problem here. The problem here is there are terrible people, shaped by parents, shaped by life, shaped by culture, and it isn’t the governments job, ever, to shape culture, or morals, or ethics. The government work for the people. And it isn’t the governments job to do the people’s job. The people’s job, is to individually, make their progeny decent, moral, individuals. Laws don’t instill morality, at all, ever.

        1. avatar anonymous says:

          2) What is the problem here???
          I can tell you what the problem isn’t. The problem isn’t guns. Guns are simple machines. They are not bad, or good. That part is up to you. Just like a pair of scissors, a knife, a bomb, the knowledge to make a bomb, the knowledge to make a potent vaporous poison, the knowledge to make a gun, or anything that can be devised into a weapon. They are not bad, or good. That part is up to you. So the power to maim. the power to cripple. The power to instantiate hell on earth, exist within each and every one of us. The ability to be dangerous but not act with that ability, is our proper mode of being. We need to be moral, ethical, and fair to each other and ourselves. Government can’t do that for you. The “something must be done!” group demanding laws and action, should put it where it is due. In themselves, and their children. Teach your children to be moral, ethical, and fair, and teach your children to instill these values in other children. We should seek excellence for our individual selves:

          “The creation of the world — said Plato — is the victory of persuasion over force… Civilization is the maintenance of social order, by its own inherent persuasiveness as embodying the nobler alternative. The recourse to force, however unavoidable, is a disclosure of the failure of civilization, either in the general society or in a remnant of individuals…

          “Now the intercourse between individuals and between social groups takes one of these two forms: force or persuasion. Commerce is the great example of intercourse by way of persuasion. War, slavery, and governmental compulsion exemplify the reign of force.”

          – Alfred North Whitehead

          If we were perfect beings, we wouldn’t need any laws. We should strive to be better. And to be better, we have to each individually be better, and do so voluntarily. Begging… Demanding laws… is our continued testament of our failure, as a civilization. You want to stop the shootings? Do it. Do it yourself. Do it by being moral, ethical, and fair, and instill those values to those around you. Your children. Your children’s friends. Do that – and the atrocities will diminish. Passing a law won’t solve the problem. Laws don’t eliminate the malice in the hearts of those with ill intent.

        2. avatar anonymous says:

          3) Killing is already illegal. Should we tell the government to take more of our freedom in an attempt to stop this problem???
          As detailed above. No. Laws take the responsibility away from the individual, and place it on society. But no society is ever responsible. Only individuals can take responsibility for things. When a judge judges, when a jury convicts, do they do so upon a society? No. Only individuals. So on that basis, we must improve ourselves. Each of us must improve ourselves and our progeny and our friends and family, individually. And by doing so, society will begin to reflect that which we, individually, become. Taking people’s freedom away because we believe we can’t handle the responsibility involved, isn’t the solution. The solution is to become more responsible, individually. voluntarily. You pick up the burden, and you throw it on your back and you carry it. You don’t tell society to carry the burden for you.

          If people keep relying on society to solve their problems for them, then soon enough, they will have no freedoms at all. Because they voted their decision making ability away. The relegated that chore to someone else. Anyone else, so they wouldn’t have to do it. And make no mistake, others will make decisions for you. And your life won’t be better for it.

      3. avatar Geoff "Mess with the bull, get the horns" PR says:

        There is one piece of good news tonight, Cindy Hyde-Smith (R) has won the last undecided Mississippi Senate seat tonight…

        1. avatar Kent says:

          Luis wasn’t the only one to forget to mention something. You forgot, too, big time.

          You forgot to mention that all those goofy Florida constitutional amendments on the ballot earlier this month PASSED!!! Of course, they all got more than 60% of the vote, so don’t say it can’t happen, again. Chances are it will if we don’t get active right now.

        2. avatar Geoff "Mess with the bull, get the horns" PR says:

          The ‘goofy’ ones that passed were the likes of medical marijuana. Even I voted for that.

          Guns be different, ‘Kent’…

        3. avatar Sian says:

          That was last year, Geoff.

          The ones that passed this year were rafts of overbundled crap.

    2. avatar CZJay says:

      I heard they have nukes…

      I don’t think most Americans would sacrifice their life for some guns. Those that would are probably not in shape to put up a fight or have the necessary equipment and training. I think they would rather play video games, buy another iphone, watch porn, eat some more fast food, buy more drugs, root for their favorite sports team and send money to the NRA.

      France is protesting and fighting the cops right now because of a tax on fuel. A couple of people already died. They are demanding resignations. Both sides of the political spectrum are participating.

      This isn’t something that Americans do. They simply say, “What can you do? That’s just the way it is.” Then continue on with their life as things continue to deteriorate. With the country divided as it is it’s more unlikely there would be substantive resistance.

      1. avatar Cloud says:

        Most of the colonies didn’t want to fight the British either. It only took a enough.

        1. avatar frank speak says:

          they’re slowly boxing us in…one step at a time….if we can’t win at the polls we’re in serious trouble…the voting booth and the courts are the only effective means of resistance…it might take a ruby ridge or Waco-like event to alter their thinking…maybe…

        2. avatar CZJay says:

          Are other countries going to help overthrow the corrupt U.S. governments? Are the French going to help us win? Maybe the French Canadians?

        3. avatar New Continental Army says:

          If war did break out in America you can rest assured foreign powers would be supporting their faction of choice. The future leverage a nation could gain from influencing the outcome of such a war would be astronomical.

      2. avatar Michael in AK says:

        less than 5% of Americans would be plenty….but no one wants to lead….

        1. avatar frank speak says:

          or has proven capable…so far….

        2. avatar CZJay says:

          Because they will become the main target and quickly done away with.

        3. avatar New Continental Army says:

          CZ jay, no they won’t. The government simply isn’t as good as the media would lead you to believe. Citation: every war the past 50 years.

        4. avatar Ansel Hazen says:

          The people are out there Michael. Some event will break the camels back and the match is going to get struck.

      3. avatar Elaine D. says:

        @CZJay

        France expects political participation in its process from its citizens. I was told by a French citizen recently that if you do not vote in French elections, you lose your French citizenship. This includes if you are a French citizen residing abroad. They mail you the ballot with complete instructions on how to fill it out and return it. If you return it with errors or missing sections, they mail you another one, and they keep doing that until you do it right.

        I’ve always thought it would be interesting to see what would happen if the United States implemented such a process. Apathy and non participation is set as a norm here with no consequences, so that’s what we get.

        1. avatar New Continental Army says:

          It’s also your right here. To not be involved. It’s a stupid choice but a choice you have by right. We all want to see things change here but doing just about anything France does would be absurd for the US.

        2. avatar Elaine D. says:

          @New

          I guess I just don’t get why not participating in the process of a country whose process you benefit from is a right. That just gets kind of weird for me. The French idea is that you benefit from being a citizen of the country, so you need to know about, and participate in, the country. Participation is considered a citizen responsibility, not an option.

          Not all French ideas are terrible. Heh. Then again I’m biased, being half Viet.

        3. avatar New Continental Army says:

          The foundation of this country rests on the concept of Liberty. Many people really don’t quite understand what Liberty is, it’s not the same as freedom, or equality. Liberty is the idea that everything you do is essentially legal, unless it is expressly forbidden by law. Most, in fact I think all, other countries in the world do not operate on this principle. Except America. Put it this way, just because the right isn’t listed in the BOR, doesn’t mean it’s not there. When the country was founded there was a huge debate about wether even to put the BOR in the constitution due to the fact that certain rights, like the RKBA, were so universally accepted, they didn’t need to be listed, and also they feared the BOR would become a list of explicit things you could ONLY do, and hence trample the notion of liberty. Thankfully they kept the BOR and some semblance of liberty still manages to survive by the skin of its teeth.

        4. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Put it this way, just because the right isn’t listed in the BOR, doesn’t mean it’s not there.”

          Yes, a question answered thoroughly and forcefully by amendments 9&10.

        5. avatar FedUp says:

          Do you want the people who don’t give a shit to participate in your country’s elections?
          If somebody wants to stay home instead of educating themselves and voting, I’ll take that over voting when they don’t know who or what they’re voting for.

    3. avatar Tom says:

      Civil War? Like the one that took place in California, New Yorm, New Jersey, etc etc?

      1. avatar New Continental Army says:

        Maybe not civil war but this being Florida.. I can assure you it will not be peaceful or quick. It will be a huge mess and there will be allot of deaths. Florida man alone will have a kill to death ratio if 10 to 1.

        1. avatar Ash says:

          News a 10:

          “Today a Florida man … “

      2. avatar Phil Wilson says:

        In CA, New York, and Connecticut at least, there is mass non-compliance. I don’t know about New Jersey but I’m guessing it’s the same there. No civil war, but it’s still the leftist/authoritarians’ move at this point. If some editorials are any indication, there are at least some leftists eager to make that move. If that happens, then we’ll see if a critical mass of Americans are willing to put up an actual fight.

    4. avatar Geoff "Mess with the bull, get the horns" PR says:

      “You want a Civil War? Because that’s how you get a Civil War.”

      Planning to move to Florida, Serge?

      If it gets on the ballot (and it *will*), it will pass…

    5. avatar Adam says:

      No need for Civil War. This won’t survive a court challenge, especially if Trump can win in 2020 and get us a 6-3 court.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “This won’t survive a court challenge”

        How many magazine capacity bans have been overturned in federal court? In the SC?

        The SC is not going to consider every twist of control that comes up. And that is what it would take.

      2. avatar WARFAB says:

        We might not have to wait until 2020 to get a 6-3 SCOTUS.

  2. avatar 2aguy says:

    Gun owners…..this is what happens when any democrat gets into political office….if you want this to stop, stop allowing democrats to win…..no matter how bad the republican, they are not actively fighting against the 2nd Amendment the way democrats are.

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      Direct democracy measures go around whoever is in office. Previous generations established ballot initiatives to get rid of the republic for which it stands for an easily directed democracy by those who have enough money and pop culture influence.

      People are too stupid and lazy to read past the title of the bill. They vote for whatever sounds good or what a commercial told them to. TL;DR generation…

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Direct democracy is unconstitutional. Under the CotUS, states must have a “republican” form of government.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Under the CotUS, states must have a “republican” form of government.”

          There is “form”, and there is substance. CotUS does not prevent states from having “republic+”. States are supposed to be the “laboratory”, which requires experimentation. And the intent of the CotUS provision was to prevent states from setting up their own monarchies/autocracies, where “the people” had no control at all over government. The initiative process prevents state governments from ruling without consent of the ruled.

          But democracy is dangerous to small children, and other living things.

  3. avatar Cloud says:

    Lol police can barely enforce and often times refuse to even enforce magazine bans. How are they gonna enforce an AR ban?

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      overall…the reality is they can’t…expect them to make a few examples, though…in an attempt to cower the rest…

    2. avatar Geoff "Mess with the bull, get the horns" PR says:

      “How are they gonna enforce an AR ban?”

      Is that a serious question?

      Arbitrarily. At the time and place of their choosing, when they want to tack on additional charges on to someone…

  4. avatar Yarbles says:

    Democrats AND the illegal voting THEY support MUST be driven OUT of a free state by the voters and through citizen action.

  5. avatar California Richard says:

    “Move out of California,” they said. “Go to a state that respects freedom,” they said. “That could never happen here,” they said….. you can run from California, but it will find you, where ever you try to hide.

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      Which is why most of the socialist/communist South America caravan is heading to California instead of other states.

  6. avatar Ed Schrade says:

    Smart, vote in an unconstitutional law that will be overturned.

    1. avatar Kevin (The Other One) says:

      Its only unconstitutional once a court rules that it is……..until then it is established law.

      Its what these California politicians do, pass unconstitutional laws and wait to see if the supreme court over rules them. I thought for sure that micro stamping and ammunition registration would have been over turned, but nope they are still established law here in CA. Microstamping is the most absurd gun law ever passed, and its been a state law since 2013….The most recent court ruling stated: “Impossibility can occasionally excuse noncompliance with a statute, But impossibility does not authorize a court to go beyond interpreting a statute and simply invalidate it.”

    2. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “Smart, vote in an unconstitutional law that will be overturned.”

      This is not the first of this kind of regulation, nor is it the most creative. Magazine capacity bans abound, and one federal judge declared that if a community would “feel safer”, they had a constitutional right to regulate semi-auto firearms as they wished. I am unaware that superior court judges have overturned any of the semi-auto legislation. Willing to be informed. Do you have any support for the declaration that the Florida petitions, if made law, would fail to survive a question of constitutionality?

      1. avatar Mark N. says:

        Actually, three judges of the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals said that in the Highland Park case out of Illinois. Cert denied. Sadly. A “right” to “feel” “safe” outranked an express constitutional right.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          Thanks for the update. The episode was a foggy memory, but I did remember the “feel safe” decision.

      2. avatar Ed Schrade says:

        The new governor will veto it in Florida.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “The new governor will veto it in Florida.”

          The political history in Fla the last five years (at least) seems to demonstrate there are sufficient anti-gun Republicrats to create a veto-proof majority in the legislature, which I don’t think can deal with the initiative process, and neither can the governor.

    3. avatar frank speak says:

      hopefully…expect some stressful situations in the interim, though…..

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        …in the interim…join and contribute to as many gun rights organizations as you can…they would seem to be the best hope…

    4. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Ed Schrade,

      How can a constitutional amendment be unconstitutional? By its very definition, an amendment to a constitution is part-and-parcel of said constitution and cannot possibly be unconstitutional.

      Perhaps you are talking about an amended Florida constitution being in violation of the United States Constitution (which includes the Second Amendment of course)?

  7. avatar CZJay says:

    Yawn…

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      sleep on…awake to a nightmare…

  8. avatar Manse Jolly says:

    They can’t be serious with this….It won’t pass any reading of the US Constitution, let alone (I think) Title 10-246) which defines the militia.

    A mini-14/30 and all similar are now assault weapons!?

    Whats going to be classified as a ‘Sniper Rifle’?

    Listen up Fudds! This is your wake-up call!!!

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      Look at this horrible sniper rifle that was designed as a weapon of war. No private person should have such sniper assault weapons.

      1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

        Fudds better wake the h3ll up cause the antis are coming for everything.

        Guess my 03A3 and M1 are in the ‘weapons of war’ group too.

        smh

        1. avatar Anymouse says:

          And Mauser actions, and Rem 700 (M24/M40), and Win 70 (Marines/Hathcock), and Enfields, and … Then every bolt action could be ruled a “copy” a la Massachusetts AWB.

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          You may not be that far off, regarding bolt action rifles. My old squadron buddy in Colorado writes that he hears talk of adopting a bill to mirror one in Californication (that apparently failed), but the snake in the bill is defining “assault weapons” to have any one of a list of features, including a pistol grip. Such definition declares all semi-auto weapons “assault weapons”, but wait…there’s more. One floated interpretation is that “pistol grip” doesn’t mean only pistols, AKs and ARs. Any firearm with a pistol grip, including revolvers and rifles not built with a straight stock. The theory seems to be for rifles that one can cut the shoulder mount off a stock with a curve just aft of the receiver, leaving you with a “pistol grip” (whether you actually do the mod, or not). The effect of the discussed ban on “assault weapons” is to ban all firearms of any particular usefulness (I guess replica and antique flintlock rifles would be allowed, so long as they have a straight stock). The more sophisticated gun grabbers seem to believe they can dodge Heller and other rulings by allowing the “assault weapons” to be held at home, but transported only for range time and gunsmithing/repair. Reckon all this would make violent crime disappear in Colorado because it would be really, really illegal to have a gun during the commission of a crime.

    2. avatar Swarf says:

      10/22s are “semiautomatic assault rifles” here in WA since I-1639 passed.

      1. avatar GS650G says:

        7 round limits will eventually be 5 or less. The bar is lowered repeatedly.

        1. avatar CZJay says:

          They will go with bans on detachable magazines. You will end up with revolvers and fixed mag rifles like the old days. Of course law enforcement will retain the latest and greatest weaponry. Good luck trying to fight the police state with your Cali style gun.

    3. avatar Mark N. says:

      A mini-14 is functionally no different than an AR15, avoiding regulation to date since it does not have “evil features” like a collapsing stock (mostly), a “flash hider,” or a pistol grip, to say nothing of the thingy that goes up in the back. On the other hand, a Ruger 10/22 would violate such a ban, though it hardly constitutes a weapon of war. That was the effect of the recent proposition passed in Washington State, which delcared ALL semi-auto rifles to be “assault weapons.”

      1. avatar Geoff "Mess with the bull, get the horns" PR says:

        ” That was the effect of the recent proposition passed in Washington State, which delcared ALL semi-auto rifles to be “assault weapons.””

        Yep, that closes lots of what they call ‘loopholes’…

  9. avatar Leighton Cavendish says:

    Not going to happen…

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      It will eventually happen.

      1. avatar GS650G says:

        Yup. Plenty of states and cities turned and descended into gun control hell.

    2. avatar Mark N. says:

      Really? Washington just passed a voter initiative proposition declaring semi-auto rifles, including the venerable M1 and Ruger 10/22 to be “assault weapons.” Semi-auto pistols will be on the chopping block next.

  10. avatar Tom Edwards says:

    I for one am crippled. Just about have to use Semi-Automatic Guns. I do not thank God live in Florida. But people like me it would hurt! I get my animals every year. Have never had one wasted. But is one of the few things I can do and enjoy!
    All these ignorant gun Grabbers think a AR is a assault weapon! But they are against any gun. Most have armed guards around them or lie. The Anti Gun set in the black Caucus held few years ago. Of the 14 that held it 12 was conceiled carry in including the Mouth Isaiah Cummins! The one so ignorant when they was bringing a bunch of troops back from Afganistan. They were sending quite a few to Guam. Cummins mouth said it is going to tip the island over. Like a Iceberg would!

  11. avatar GS650G says:

    The left moved to Florida just like Colorado, California and other states. You either submit or move.
    Where have the left been displaced?

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      Brazil?

    2. avatar Zhang says:

      “Where have the left been displaced?”

      Not in America, that’s for sure. They were dealt a HUGE blow last week in Taiwan when the Taiwanese electorate voted to reject gay marriage. You could practically hear the gnashing of teeth from all the major media organizations. They were itching to print the headline “Taiwan becomes first Asian nation to welcome gay weddings” and they got slapped with reality.

      Then again, the new government is likely to be friendlier to China and more hostile to the U.S., so there’s the other half of the coin…

  12. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    (BAWN) Proposed infringement is UnConstitutional,next petty tyrants.

  13. avatar rt66paul says:

    Aren’t all semi auto weapons with detachable mags capable of using mags with more than 10 rds? Even those fed by stripper clips could have mags that are made to take more than 10 rds. This is worse than Ca’s laws

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “Aren’t all semi auto weapons with detachable mags capable of using mags with more than 10 rds?”

      Leftists are evil, not stupid.

  14. avatar W says:

    Even money says that this ballot initiative will not be limited to Florida. It’s likely pushed/ organized/ funded, at least partially, by out of state interests (Bloomberg, Democrats, Move On, Steyer, Soros, Heinz, etc). They are likely planning to collect, or already collecting, signatures in other states.

    If you know any reasonable folks who have not made up their minds, convince them to get on this side of the fence.

    BTW, thanks for the heads up TTAG.

  15. avatar Keith Pallo says:

    Oh Hell NO!! You cannot pass a state Constitutional Amendment that would vitiate any aspect of the Federal Constitution!!! Campbell is a Lawyer who wants to be Governor of the State so he knows the law!! This will result in a war!! All these demorats who moved here from the northeast are now here messing up this state. Pieces of Sh!t!!

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “Oh Hell NO!! You cannot pass a state Constitutional Amendment that would vitiate any aspect of the Federal Constitution!!!”

      Where did you get that idea? How has that idea been successfully been enforced? Do yo have any idea how many “unconstitutional” laws (laws “that would vitiate any aspect of the Federal Constitution!!!”) exist? And for how many years?

      “Unconstitutional”, or “vitiate any aspect of the Federal Constitution” is entirely up to the courts. You can claim a higher moral ground and refuse to comply with what many claim are invalid laws, but you will still take the ride. Too many people are unaware, or refuse to recognize the proposition that it is entirely possible to be “dead right”.

  16. avatar AlanInFL says:

    The big problem is that the southeast part of Florida is a strong bastion of Dems and Rinos. It is not the left West invasion that is making the area a complete moronic logic pit. It is the f*cktards from the liberal NE hellholes has screwed up that area up.

    As seen from te Parkkland.shooting, it was easier to blame a tool instead of the failed system that allowed everything slide into big disaster that it became. The School system failed itself. The local sheriff did not to do its job on multiple levels. And last, the political machine love the fact to wave the bloody banner.

    1. avatar pod says:

      Worth noting is that the mailing address for this collection of idiots is in Miami.

      Miami’s an interesting sort of place. To break it down.

      What people think is Miami is really 34 (or so) different municipalities, plus the unincorporated areas. Miami proper is the city and some close-in suburbs. Miami Beach is a different city too. However, the concentration of the population is in both these places. City of Miami is purple at best since the hardline Cubans offset the blue a bit. Miami Beach is convinced that the rest of the country is some sort of parallel dimension and that on their sandbar, HRC won in 2016.

      However, when you push west a little, it gets a little more purple and even red. Then you go south to Homestead and it goes red, as well. Surprisingly the Keys leans red.

      However, as I said, it’s all numbers. The urban pockets dictate the political discourse in metropolitan Miami, and unfortunately it means the county registers as blue on the map.

      The issue with Miami is not necessarily the old school 305 types, it’s the newcomers. Domestically they come from NY/NJ, PR, and Chicago. Add in South Americans and Euros and basically you’re adding blue people to the mix. They don’t care for guns or individual rights. All they want is their homelands with beach weather in December added in.

      One saving grace in my opinion is the Brazilians. Almost every Brazilian I know is pro-2A and they’re happy as shit that Bolsonaro won back home. Bring in the pro-2A Brazilians. And hey, for you single guys out there, I’m told that the Brazilian women are quite fetching.

      At the end of the day it’s a demographics game. I don’t object to people moving to Florida, I just want people with the right mindset here. I’m OK with moderates since you can swing them. But we have to do outreach.

  17. avatar Erik says:

    This will pass in FL when they putlaw BBQ in TX.

    I live in north central FL. I pass a dozen gun stores every day. There are so many gun owners there it is insane. No, really. It’s like TX with Disney.

    1. avatar Stateisevil says:

      I live in North Florida as well. If you think this can’t pass here you are very much mistaken and don’t understand the demographics of the state as a whole. It will be law here in the next 2-8 years thanks to out of state money and organization. And the piggies will enforce it. Buy and stock up now.

      1. avatar pod says:

        Florida’s an interesting situation though in that regard. We’re the Gunshine State. This isn’t New York where yeah, sure, some people have guns, and maybe some people even have AR-pattern rifles. This is Florida where there’s not much (aside from 21+ and bump stock BS) more gun control than what is federally mandated.

        Even prior to the SAFE Act, New York had scads of gun control. May-issue/no-issue, local restrictions on guns, that sort of thing. Gun control was already a thing.

        Florida going from 0-100 on gun control would not go over well, at all. Non-compliance would be massive, and outside of a few urban areas, no cop worth his badge would enforce it.

        1. avatar Scoutino says:

          “This is Florida where there’s not much (aside from 21+ and bump stock BS) more gun control than what is federally mandated.”

          There is 13 states with constitutional carry. Is Florida one of them? Hell, what about just simple open carry if you are not fishing or camping?
          Fl is not bad, but it’s far cry from best as far as RTKBA goes.

          There is good reason why Founding Fathers didn’t want direct democracy. I’m afraid that these ballot initiatives are going to be freedom’s grave.

    2. avatar Squiggy81 says:

      Sounds like paradise. If it wasn’t for those pesky hurricanes, I’d move there.

      1. avatar New Continental Army says:

        What we need is MORE of these hurricanes. The hurricanes deter more waves of liberals from moving here and convince the ones here to leave.

    3. avatar SoBe says:

      I am stuck in Southeast Florida because of other [il]legal restrictions on professionals, as discussed by Elaine elsewhere. Just look at the last elections to see that it can not only happen in Florida but unless something changes, we are the next New York, the California of the East.
      https://floridaelectionwatch.gov/Home

  18. avatar Elaine D. says:

    I looked at the requirements for this to make the ballot. Looks like it’s projected that they will need nearly a million signatures to even get it on there. Short of that, not happening.

    1. avatar New Continental Army says:

      Erm. I hope you’re right. Do not doubt the power of stupid Florida liberals in groups. Gollum nearly won here and he’s a straight up self admitted socialist.

    2. avatar Ing says:

      I wouldn’t bet against it getting on the ballot. They’ll have all the money they could possibly spend and the best volunteers money can buy.

      Once it’s on the ballot, they’ll have the best propaganda money can buy and a legion of eager shills in the establishment media machine to give everything a veneer of legitimacy.

      And don’t forget, most voters are stupid. Even among those who technically have the wattage to illuminate the truth, most can’t be bothered or would refuse to see it even when it’s plain as day.

      Even if it doesn’t make it to the ballot or fails to win the vote, they’ll be back for another bite at the apple, and they’ll have even more money and support from the progressive billionaire’s club the second time around.

      1. avatar Elaine D. says:

        @Ing

        Well…this is something I often wonder about. Is the United States population getting stupider and less informed? How politically aware and involved are we compared to 20, 30, 50 years ago? One of those topics I haven’t found the time to research yet.

        I’ve been reading a lot about stupidity…or maybe let’s call it mediocrity…lately. It’s definitely the norm for humans as a whole. What are you gonna do.

        1. avatar Pg2 says:

          Elaine, there’s a book by Charlotte Iserbytte(sp?) titled the “deliberate dumbing down of America”. She worked for the Dept. of Education under President Reagan. Aside from the blatant institutional and cultural dumbing down of American generations, there is the chemical and food alteration angle as well. Here’s a link to a previous conversation, not sure if you saw this.

          https://www.henrymakow.com/2018/11/jews-grossly-overrepresented.html

    3. avatar L-T says:

      They can probably get that many signatures by just going to the major universities, Palm County, Broward County, and Miami-Dade County. Getting the votes to win? Hopefully not. South Florida has a large number of firearms enthusiasts that are members of both major parties.

      1. avatar pod says:

        Petition signatures have to be verified voters. The universities have a lot of out-of-state and out-of-country people who cannot, and to be honest, should not be voting. I’ll check my freedom sensibility at the door on this one – if you don’t commit to 5 consistent years (university dorm addresses don’t count) of residency in the state, you can’t vote in local and state elections.

  19. avatar Todd Mulholland says:

    I wouldn’t be surprised that they will be able to get this on the ballot with all the money they now have flowing in from out of state groups and ACTBlue. All they need are close to a million signatures to get it on the ballot hell they were able to do that with banning dog racing so I’m sure they’ll be able to do it with this.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      the threat is real…denial is futile…and it begins with “they will never etc. etc.”

  20. avatar Specialist38 says:

    No one thought the left would get a ban on farrowing crates for pigs in FL.

    It wasnt even on the radar. Then out of state interests bankrolled an initiative to put a ban on the ballot. They wanted to set a precedent to be used in other states.

    The ignorant masses voted for said ban and hog farmers were out of business.

    A friend of mine was a hog farmer and sued the state for a taking. He won…..took 8 years.

    The ban stands…but he was “compensated” for his losses. At least the state had to pay his legal fees. Of course that means taxpayers paid to compensate him.

    Dont think it cant happen. Most voters are oblivious to anything that they dont think directly affects them.

    We see it every ballot in FL. Something makes it onto the ballot and people vote “yes” because they think its not their money, so why not. Dog racing just banned. It can happen and the left is throwing lots of money at it.

    1. avatar TheUnspoken says:

      Agreed, despite Desantis barely making it and some other Republican wins, Floridians passed pretty much all of the constitutional amendments, and they usually do. Whereas they should lean toward no on everything, as even a good or decent idea doesn’t necessarily belong in the Constitution, just pass it as legislation! But instead, they almost always pass. I was surprised about the dog tracks, I don’t personally go but would have thought people would either not care or would prefer the freedom to do what they want… You would expect the people to want to legalize drugs, drinking, gambling, etc, but no.

      This may not win in 2020, but they will keep pushing it.

      Anyone want a ballot amendment on open carry?

      1. avatar New Continental Army says:

        That by far is the most terrifying thing about this direct democracy shit. People don’t even think, they just vote yes.

      2. avatar Specialist38 says:

        Absolutely. I do not want a bunch of crap in the constitution.

        Legislators need to have the cods to amkes laws if they are needed, not defer to mob rule and stick some inane edict in the constitution.

        We need to make it harder to put amendments on the ballot in FL.

  21. avatar possum says:

    With the inevitable rising sea level caused by global whining, I say we get started on that sea wall Alabama—Sourh Carolina, 150 ft tall, machine gun post and nuclear missiles, just in case something slimy from the ocean makes it over the wire

    1. avatar New Continental Army says:

      Check your nearest city. They’re already next door.

  22. avatar Chip in Florida says:

    But I have been repeatedly assured by those on the left that they aren’t trying to take guns away from anyone except the bad guys.

    1. avatar Elaine D. says:

      Not all Dems are the same.

      There are plenty of us who are not interested in taking away guns. We don’t vote Red because of the direction the GOP has taken over the last few years; otherwise you’d see more swing voters from our side. It’s not nearly as simplistic as a lot of people on here try to make it out to be.

      1. avatar New Continental Army says:

        That’s not true. I’ve neen doing politics for 30 years. Before Trump, you democrats blamed the TEA party for being to extreme. Before that you blamed Bush for being too dumb. Before that you cursed us for fighting welfare programs and the Clinton’s. And before that you couldn’t side with Reagan for the exact same reasons listed above. Who, as many here didn’t experience, got the same treatment from the media Trump does. You will always find a reason to vote democrat.

        1. avatar Elaine D. says:

          @New

          I think you’re getting onto shaky ground when you try to lump a very diverse group of people into a few broad categories. That would be like me accusing “you” of supporting the Neo Nazis or “you” hating immigrants.

          I have a lot of conservative friends both inside and outside the shooting world. I know they’re not idiots, and they know I’m not an idiot. We listen to each other and are willing to acknowledge that both sides have rather big problems and that there are no perfect solutions in a two party system.

        2. avatar New Continental Army says:

          That’s fair. But I’ve heard it all before. I guess I’ve been paying attention for so long that to me nothing is new under the sun. Most people right now think “things are so crazy” right now or “Trump is literally Hitler” or “the weather is so strange now”… but it’s been like that. Bush was Hitler too. Things were crazy in the 90s. The republicans have always been the evil children eating monsters the media has portrayed them as.

        3. avatar pg2 says:

          @Elaine-“I think you’re getting onto shaky ground when you try to lump a very diverse group of people into a few broad categories”….Except for white conservatives. It’s socially accepted and encouraged to negatively stereotype this group.

      2. avatar Ing says:

        Actually, it is far simpler than we’re led to believe. Here’s the whole thing in a nutshell:

        Both parties suck. Both are hostile to individual liberty in their own ways — but only one party is actively campaigning on a promise to cripple part of the Bill of Rights: the Democrats. And if the party’s hatred for the Second Amendment isn’t enough, they’re pretty damn shaky on the First, too (as I’m sure you know).

        If you value the civil and individual rights protected by Articles 1 and 2 of the Bill of Rights, then you vote Republican (and get in their ears about all the other stupid unconstitutional shit they’re doing).

        If you don’t value the Bill of Rights or the Constitution much at all, then vote for Democrats.

        Everything else is just window dressing.

      3. avatar Specialist38 says:

        What direction Elaine?

        As for democrat candidates, i have not seen one this year that:
        denounced illegal immigration and its proponents.
        denounced the hate toward Christians, white people in general, women who voted for
        Trump.
        denounced the hate towards the NRA or gun owners who carry their guns with them.
        denounced the attacks on liberty like due process with red flag mental legislation. (Lots of RINOs in this camp too)

        From what I see, the basic dem platform is ” help us protect you by telling you what you must do”. Those on the bottom economically gobble that up and spit out more socialists. The rich left elite cling to it knowing they will not have to “share in the misery” as Winsron Churchill said.

        Rights require reason, effort, and will to defend. We are seeing massive attacks on the 2nd and 1st. I am sure others will follow as rights get in the way of “progressive” politics.

        Trump is coarse, a lout, and far from perfect. I still revel in the fact that he is the netter option we were given.

        1. avatar Elaine D. says:

          @Specialist

          Long list, but basically here is my personal situation – and I am far from alone in this.

          I am not enamored of much of the liberal far left’s approach. But there are things about what the left supports that I quite like. Health care. LGB+ rights. The look at how to lower the costs of education. The fact that the new House of Representatives is actually more “representative” than I’ve ever seen.

          As a non white woman, I’m deeply concerned about how the alt-right currently seems to feel emboldened within the GOP. I wish I could see more pushback from the GOP against that. I’m concerned about the anti gay, anti brown person stuff the NRA spouts out. People can’t help being gay or brown. They can’t change that about themselves.

          As the child of an immigrant – an immigrant who only ended up in this country because of the US pulling out of Vietnam after signing up the South Vietnamese, meaning my mother was left with only one choice – I am troubled by the hateful and single-note tone that seems to be DT’s approach toward immigrants at this point. His little stunt about voiding birthright citizenship through executive order was not funny to many of us who are the children of immigrant parents. I am not in favor of unchecked illegal immigration. But immigration is a complex issue. Many of the industries that are doing well in the States, such as tech, are highly populated and run by “hyphenated Americans.”

          Those are just some of the things. I dislike the far left as much as the far right. I don’t believe white men are the root of all evil. I despise white liberal racism. But as a WOC the hard fact is, right now there is no place in the GOP for someone like me. My voice will not be heard there. At least on this side, because of the platform the party has committed itself to, there’s a lot of pressure to listen.

        2. avatar Thomas J. says:

          There is so much identity politics in your reply to Specialist, Elaine.

          Until you realize that the Bill Of Rights and the Second Amendment is about higher purposes, i.e. The People, you will always be on the side of the Leftist.

          Also, as to your comment “We don’t vote Red because of the direction the GOP has taken over the last few years” …Look up John F. Kennedy’s politics. Ten years ago I used to say he would be labeled a Republican, today he would be labeled a conservative Republican. It’s not the GOP that has “taken a direction over the last few years”.

        3. avatar Elaine D. says:

          @Thomas

          Speaking about what I choose to, in the way I choose to, is completely my right. There are many many who feel like me, as the most recent election has shown. I’m not alone in having these concerns. That’s what I have to say.

        4. avatar Thomas J. says:

          Elaine,

          It is absolutely your right, as the Bill of Rights enshrines, and I will continue to vote to keep that your right.

          However, with the attacks on the 1st Amendment’s freedom of speech, under the guise of “hate speech” or the hecklers veto, is voting “blue” also protecting that right?

          As to “There are many many who feel like me, as the most recent election has shown.” This is why we have a Constitutional Republic, and the above mentioned Bill Of Rights, and not a Democracy, which the founders abhorred, and rightfully labeled a tyranny of the majority.

          It is the reason why you can still enjoy your Second Amendment rights, even if you vote against it.

        5. avatar Elaine D. says:

          @Thomas

          Does it not in the least bother you that DT threatened to overturn the 14th amendment by executive order? Or is it OK because it’s not the 2d amendment? Because there’s nothing, really, to stop him from doing that with any amendment, as it turns out.

          Maybe I’m more cynical than you. I don’t believe that certain factions of the GOP are actually interested in protecting the rights you think they are. When I see an attitude toward “liberals” that has essentially been scripted by a Communist regime repeated so much on here, what I, cynically, think is that y’all are being made to think that we, your fellow Americans, are the bad guys so that you will turn your attention to us instead of what’s really going on.

          Just me, I guess.

        6. avatar Ing says:

          Somebody needs to show me where the NRA is hiding all its anti-gay, racist messaging, because they’re sure not sending any of it to me.

          I’m getting American Rifleman magazine; is it in American Hunter or America’s First Freedom instead? Do you have to donate to Friends of the NRA or NRA-ILA to receive the real hate messages?

        7. avatar Specialist38 says:

          Elaine.

          Interesting to learn your background and what its like in your shoes.

          Dont know why the far- right knotheads feel emboldened but it reminds me of when Clinton took office. Seems the far-left knotheads are doing the same, maybe even more violent in their actions.

          Dont want to discriminate against anyone, including homosexuals. The constitution is for everyone. I do not have to agree with or like different people but Liberty is for all. The line gets drawn at condoning and promoting activity i dont agree with. If you believe homosexuality is a sin, the left immediately labels you as homophobic. I have no fear of homosexuals but i do not approve of homosexuality. I also do not condone infidelity or alcoholism. This doesnt stop me from interacting with people daily. I just dont spend personal time with those folks.

          It does bother me that Trump often ignores the constitution and speaks in ignorance. He did it with red flag laws for guns. I said before he took office that he would shake the cage in DC by trying to do things the president is not allowed to do alone. He has done it spades. The chickenshits in Congress have ceded power to the executive branch increasingly in the last 4 decades. Now everyone is realizing how dangerous that can be. I am hoping the balance of power will be restored but that takes political will and a backbone lacking in most politicians.

          I hate that you recoil from the republican party. We could use some sober-minded folks with some gumption. Easier to change it from within than outside.

        8. avatar New Continental Army says:

          I too would like to see all the “anti gay anti brown” stuff you speak of from the NRA. Perhaps you should look up some Colin Noirs videos and rethink what you’ve been told about the NRA. And he’s not simply a “token black guy” either. There’s fringe extreme groups on the right for sure, but the NRA is definetly not one of them.

        9. avatar Chip in Florida says:

          @Elaine D

          I like a lot of your comments, I really do. I find it very fascinating to watch how someone can compartmentalize two opposing concepts and switch between the two without going insane (er?) with the breaks in logic. For example:

          “…But there are things about what the left supports that I quite like. Health care. LGB+ rights. The look at how to lower the costs of education. The fact that the new House of Representatives is actually more “representative” than I’ve ever seen.”

          The greatest problem with healthcare is the fact that the government is involved with health care. And you support the idea of increasing the governments involvement in order to fix the very problem that was created by the government’s involvement in the first place.

          The greatest problem with education is the fact that the government is involved with it’s management and delivery. And you support the idea of giving the government more authority over the process in order to fix the problem of government having too much control over the process of education?

          LGBQQTIAetc, etc, etc…. Rights. How can this be anything but special rights for one group to the exclusion of another? There is no system of rights in this country that oppresses any minority group. There are examples of oppression, but those are not the fault of any system in place. Someone being denied their rights should be addressed because that is wrong. Granting one group additional rights because there is an example of someone denying the rights of someone else is equally wrong.

          And someone else already pointed out this little tidbit but it demonstrates that you support the idea of identity politics which makes you part of the very problem you claim you want to fix. For example:

          “…As a non white woman, I’m deeply concerned about how the alt-right currently seems to feel emboldened within the GOP. I wish I could see more pushback from the GOP against that.”

          So you are a woman. So what? What special knowledge or ability does that give you when it comes to the idea of individual rights and responsibilities?

          So you are not white. Again, so what? What does the color of your skin have to do with how you do what you do? Sure you may require a different set of skin or hair care products, maybe you can wear certain colors better than others, but that has what effect, exactly, on how you protect and exercise your rights as a citizen of this nation?

          And that last bit, about the alt-right and what you want the GOP to do…. why do you feel it acceptable to tell a group that you are not a part of and do not support in any way what they should or shouldn’t do? What else should the GOP check with you before doing? You know, to see if they are doing it to your satisfaction?

          Long story short (too late),

          In a Constitutional Republic based on the Rule of Law, the minority is protected at all times. And the smallest minority is the individual. That is why we have individual rights and not group rights. You are promoting the idea of group rights ( POC, WOC, LGB+, and several others too) and that puts you in opposition to the very basic principals this nation was founded upon. And that is why you get so much pushback on your ideas around here.

        10. avatar pg2 says:

          @Chip-“I like a lot of your comments, I really do”-Sounds a bit similar to the “I support the 2nd Amendment, but…”

        11. avatar Eli2016 says:

          To Elaine D. Not sure why I’m doing this but I’m quoting a line from Sam I Am. I need to stop getting involved in these forums before I completely leave the middle ground. 🙂

          “Celebrate your heritage, and share it if you wish, but if you demand that you be allowed to establish the Old World in a ghetto in the New World, that is not being an American. That is being an outpost of a foreign nation.”

          It may sound like a harsh statement but it is true overall. In general, POC, especially those who’s tenure in the U.S. is within the last 20 years seem to think that they cannot make a breakthrough in certain segments of society. They tend to blame that on racism. I disagree and so would my uncle who spent 3 years in an internment camp. If anything, being a POC has opened the doors for many who 50 years ago would not have had a chance to even go into an established country club or swim in a public pool.

          Obama’s “reign” brought racism, screaming and kicking, to the forefront of our political and social lives. The Republicans didn’t quite know what to do with his policies. IMHO he actually did more to divide the country rather than unite it. We are now in two (at least) distinct camps. Many POC’s like myself (and perhaps you Elaine D) are torn between holding on to our culture and being a “true” American. I choose to be an American but I still honor and respect my culture. I work as much as possible within the context of our faulty and often questionable government. I think the Republicans have sold out much of their base. I pray they realize their stupidity before 2020.

          I think the “wall” that some POC’s run into is within themselves, not with the system or the group in question. Sometimes you need to look at the big picture of where you’ve been and where you now are. I believe that POC”s are currently in the best position that they have ever been in – in a long and varied time.

        12. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Not sure why I’m doing this but I’m quoting a line from Sam I Am. ”

          Wow. This truly is a blind squirrel event. Glad to have been of some use, at least once.

        13. avatar Tom Strawberries says:

          @Chip in Florida

          “The greatest problem with healthcare is the fact that the government is involved with health care.”

          I’ll call foul on this. Certain things do not mix with free market capitalism, and health care is one of them. Health care is what’s known as a “price inelastic” commodity, meaning demand is decoupled from price- obviously if you’ve been in a car accident you will pay anything it takes for medical treatment. There also is zero incentive to offer competitive pricing when your “customer” is bleeding to death on your doorstep and has absolutely no ability to go elsewhere or comparison shop. If the end goal is a healthier populace (as it should be), and not corporate profit, I can’t conceive of how allowing the healthcare industry free reign would be a good thing. I would be gobsmacked and tickled pink if you could present a credible theory where LESS government involvement would result in healthcare providers delivering better service at a lower price.

          I’ve been to countries where you get only what you can pay for up front in medical care. People literally die there because they can’t pay the OR doctor for emergency surgery and they are refused treatment. These places were all third world shitholes- call me crazy, but that sort of healthcare system might be part of why.

      4. avatar Slim says:

        You are all the same and a walking contradiction. You blab about how pro gun you are while voting for big government and less freedom. Essentially you vote for the same government control that caused your relatives to leave Vietnam.

        For the life of me I don’t understand why you’re a fixture on this site. Maybe older white guys just like talking to Asian chics….

    2. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “But I have been repeatedly assured by those on the left that they aren’t trying to guns away from anyone except the bad guys.”

      You’re so last week.

      1. avatar Chip in Florida says:

        Well it has been a couple of weeks since any of them have said that.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Well it has been a couple of weeks since any of them have said that.”

          Maybe they were distracted by T-day planning. Can’t last but so long.

  23. avatar Ing says:

    I told you this was coming to the rest of the US. The progressive billionaire’s club did it in Washington state, and now every state that has an initiative process is going to see this same bullshit.

    This is why the US was founded as a republic, not a direct democracy. Progressivism is a progressive disease.

    On a slightly different note, I think it’s interesting how you and I are not to be allowed to possess “assault weapons” that are good only for indiscriminate killing, but the initiative specifically states that the bans won’t apply to the police or any branch of government. Indiscriminate killing with high-capacity assault weapons is apparently okay if government does it.

  24. avatar Jon David says:

    Ban whatcha y’all like. You will have to kill me to disarm me. Simple. Until Ford Chevy Verizon Sprint an Marathon are Ban. Y’all can kiss my redneck country ass. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

  25. avatar L-T says:

    Don’t New York my Florida! Keep an eye on those Broward officials too.

  26. avatar brewski says:

    “assault weapon”

    Still don’t know what that means and how it applies to guns. Because guns don’t shoot themselves.

  27. avatar Mike in OK says:

    These people are domestic enemies of the United States, and any U.S. citizen who aids them in any way is a treasonous POS.

  28. avatar Sora says:

    I will be working on a flier tonight (mid east time) to fight back these mob gun bans.
    It will be sarcastically written to call for the support of the amendment, with the back of the flier explaining in plain language on the effects (not working) of these in CA, NJ, Paris, etc.
    We have to fight back these lies directly at the voter level because there’s more who don’t know than who do on value of #2A. Or what “Militia” is supposed to be.
    I’ll be needing funds for it. I might start a GoFund or/and ask for help from gun businesses big and small.
    We have to fight back directly at the voters.

  29. avatar strych9 says:

    “…it would designate any semi-automatic long gun in Florida with a capacity of more than ten rounds an “assault weapon”

    Actually if you go by the strict language of the bill it’s worse than that.

    “…defined as semiautomatic rifles and shotguns capable of holding more than 10 rounds…”

    Most of them are “capable of holding” more than 10 if you “modify” them in some way. A tube extender for a shotgun makes your regular bird gun “capable of holding more than 10 rounds”.

    Even if the standard mag is 10 or less if the gun will take a bigger mag then it’s technically illegal. All one has to do is modify a couple magazines and combine them with some cutting and TIG welding and you’ve got a “high capacity” magazine. Since it would still fit the gun the gun is “capable of holding more than 10 rounds”.

    I also note that there is no exemption for .22LR rifles so, once again, the anti’s are making a bunch of .22 rifles into “assault weapons”.

  30. avatar Bigus Dickus says:

    An amendment requires 60% of votes to pass in Florida, and no, that is not an automatic thing in Florida either.

    1. avatar Racer88 says:

      Sadly, it is… Automatic. Look at the last election. Useful idiots reflexively voted Yes for every amendment.

      1. avatar Kyle in Upstate NY says:

        It may be, but this issue might be an exception. Hopefully the NRA can spend adequately to inform people as well, though likely they will be outspent. I also hope that the NRA is smart enough to point out it bans all semiautomatic rifles pretty much.

        I still can’t get over that the state’s constitution can just be changed by popular will. That defeats the whole purpose of even having a constitution.

        This initiative is nothing new however, Ban Assault Weapons Now has been saying since early 2018 that they were going to pursue this.

  31. avatar Kyle in Upstate NY says:

    What good is a constitution if it can be changed by mob rule? That doesn’t even make sense. Only hope is that SCOTUS would overturn this. All you saying it will be ignored, no it won’t, because the sales of all semiautomatic rifles will be stopped.

    1. avatar Racer88 says:

      In the meantime, they will have precipitated another run on guns and ammo. Sales will be brisk, to say the least.

    2. avatar Chip in Florida says:

      “.. Only hope is that SCOTUS would overturn this.”

      The problem is it would go in to effect first. Then it has to be challenged in a lower court and fail. Then it has to be appealed to the Supreme Court. Then it has to be taken up by the Court and go through that process. That could be a good number of years between the law going into effect and being overturned.

      It would be better to prevent if from happening in the first place. WAY Better.

  32. avatar Kyle in Upstate NY says:

    Technically, this on paper should easily be overturned, at least partially, by the Heller decision. It is one thing to say that semiautomatic rifles with “military-style” features can be banned, as that leaves ones without such features legal. But it’s a huge stretch to say that pretty much all semiautomatic rifles can be banned and still be in line with the Heller decision. Not that I don’t think most lower courts will rule in favor of the ban as they are so blatantly anti-gun, but the SCOTUS there might be a real shot. Which could then overturn all such bans nationwide.

    Anyone know the political makeup of the judges/courts this case will make it to first if taken to court?

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “Anyone know the political makeup of the judges/courts this case will make it to first if taken to court?”

      9 of 13 federal courts of appeal are controlled by liberals. (maybe we should be more concerned with honest and dishonest judges?). There are at least 3600 federal judgeships and magistrates. Trump appointed 83. Leftists currently control 70% of the appeals courts. And aren’t we up a Cripple Creek, looking to courts to do what we can’t get through the legislative processes, just like the Leftists do?

  33. avatar Marcus says:

    HAHAHAHAHAHA This is sooooo funny! Like I moved to the Gunshine state from CA for it to become CA. Seriously if this silly act passes it won’t be enforced or obeyed and I’ll proudly gloat about not following it too!

  34. avatar Scott says:

    Good thing this does not apply to handguns… time to build some more AR Pistols

  35. avatar Kent says:

    Remember, ALL those goofy constitutional amendments that were on the ballot earlier this month? They ALL PASSED! Of course, they were all ‘weasel-worded’ and combined in such a way that was very confusing, but they ALL PASSED. Those leftist tactics worked so well you can count on seeing them, again, namely in 2020. And the never ending vote re-counts, too.

    Time to stand up, be counted, and GET ACTIVE because this time we know what’s coming.

  36. avatar MMurcek says:

    As a newcomer to Florida at the end of 2017 who just participated in the most recent elections, I’d note:

    There were 12 ballot initiatives on the fall 2018 ballot. ALL passed. That is striking in and of itself.

    Despite lots of whipped up emotions that Gillum would be bad for gun owners, he ALMOST won.

    The Secretary of Agriculture race was NARROWLY won by an avowed anti-gun candidate. Dept. of Agriculture in Florida handles CCWs. Expect to see that change soon.

    Anything is possible here and most of it is not particularly good. If I have to sell my two ARs rather than let the gummint paper me over I will. There are other guns I want. That does NOT mean I’m giving up, but if the wind blows the other way, here in the land of hurricanes, I WILL cut my own losses…

    1. avatar Kyle in Upstate NY says:

      Florida has generally been pro-gun, but politically, has been a swing state. For example, it went for Obama twice. And it also had elected a very anti-gun Democrat as a Senator.

  37. avatar GW says:

    The way to end this is to get rid of these treasonous fools both in the public and in government who fail to acknowledge our natural god given human civil rights.

  38. avatar Truckman says:

    There is going to be some problems with some of the guns they are talking about and that is going to be guns covered by Federal CCR license holders and the gun the Fed. says we can have how is the state going to override what a Fed. license says you can have. Besides that there will be so many legal battles that the state will not be able win especially when it goes to supreme court but even before that they have to get it on ballot and pass it and that’s going to be a hell of a job that I do not belive they can do

    1. avatar Kyle in Upstate NY says:

      Why do you think they won’t be able to get it on the ballot?

  39. avatar Jeff Miner says:

    If this principle is allowed as constitutional then the government can outlaw any property you legally acquired, with no, or low ball compensation. Not just guns. As for guns being banned such as AR 15 many are $,1,500-$3,500 before accessories such as scopes, red dots, cases, specialized parts. When Congressman Swalwell’s proposed but back of only $1,000. That may cover low end cheap model, but not what many bought and accessorize. Adding red dot and magnifier scope can be another $2,000. Add slings, cases, triggers, bipod, stocks etc can easily make a rifle with accessories in a $6,000 range. Seems like theft to me. The government which should not be able to confiscate legally purchased property. Any bans should be grandfathered in as the government had not previously outlawed the property. Especially when ATF regulations and the Federal laws allowed legal purchase of semi auto rifles. Make no mistake it is about setting a precedent of improper confiscation and citizens allowing it by not caring because they don’t own or want one. Where does confiscation stop, houses, cars, bank accounts, cash, food, or whatever someone doesn’t like or thinks you shouldn’t have.

    Even with bump stocks The problem here is not whether it is junk or not. The problem was ATF put out 2 separate decisions stating is was a legal item. Business owners and citizens put out good money to make or buy them legally, based on those letters. The problem is the confiscation of legally purchased property for one. Two, which should be irrelevant based on government shouldn’t be able to confiscate previous legally owned property, but they then don’t compensate the owner for the actual loss vs assigning a set low ball value.

    Hate being taught, no respect, and no jail time for criminals is the real problem, not guns.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “Make no mistake it is about setting a precedent of improper confiscation and citizens allowing it by not caring because they don’t own or want one. Where does confiscation stop, houses, cars, bank accounts, cash, food, or whatever someone doesn’t like or thinks you shouldn’t have.”

      Have you heard of “civilian asset forfeiture”? SC ruled that quite constitutional because it is an important tool of law enforcement (“compelling government interest”). All the confiscation of property is permitted even though no criminal charge is ever lodged. The theory behind that little blob of unconstitutional legislation from the bench is based on the theory that asset forfeiture is not punishing people, but is an action against an asset, which has not constitutional rights.

      Also, confiscation is quite constitutional when laws are violated. Think “Prohibition”. Once alcoholic beverage was outlawed, people who had originally purchased a legal product were thence in possession of a prohibited item. Confiscation of contraband is quite permissible under the constitution.

  40. Born Free, Lived Free, Will die FREE!
    I don’t play well with people who try to;
    #1. Change the rules in the middle of the game;
    #2. Change the rules so they can take away my stuff.
    You’ll find a reason to stand your God-given ground, or
    you’ll find a treason to kneel in submission to tyrants!
    Whatever you will do is inside you already!
    As for me and my house…

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