John Lott: The Media Ignore Mass Shootings That Were Stopped by Armed Citizens

louisville kroger shooting

courtesy courier-journal.com

“Most gunmen are smart enough to know that they can kill more people if they attack places where victims can’t defend themselves. That’s one reason why 98 percent of mass public shootings since 1950 have occurred in places where citizens are banned from having guns.

“The national media tend to ignore case after case of mass public shootings being stopped by armed private citizens. Just a couple of days before the synagogue shooting in Pittsburgh a concealed handgun permit holder stopped an alleged killer who was shooting blacks at a Kroger grocery store in Louisville, Ky.

“National media outlets such as ABC and NBC covered the attack, noting that the alleged gunman told another white man that: ‘Whites don’t kill whites.’ It sounded as if the gunman was merely reassuring a bystander that he had nothing to worry about. But reporters left out the crucial first part of the quote. The killer said: ‘Don’t shoot me. I won’t shoot you. Whites don’t shoot whites.’ The other white person was pointing a permitted concealed handgun at the killer.” – John Lott Jr. in How Gun-Free Zones Invite Mass Shootings

comments

  1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    Why would the Democratic Party Propaganda Department report anything that would undermine their position on the right to keep and bear arms?

    1. avatar ollie says:

      Sorry Guv, but you’re wrong. The democrat party is the tool of the elite liberal pseudo-intellectual media, not the other way around. The party is controlled by the media, who determine who is approved and who is not approved. The media decides what to publish and what to hide.The media are somewhat like British Royalty in that most low intelligence Americans fawn over them. The media is a non-representative branch of our government.

      1. avatar Geoff "Mess with the bull, get the horns" PR says:

        “The media are somewhat like British Royalty in that most low intelligence Americans fawn over them.”

        Speaking of crime and Britain, look at what popped up this morning –

        The citizens are getting tired of being assaulted in public :

        “Nearly 400 join vigilante mob after losing trust in local police”

        “A vigilante mob is patrolling the streets of Birmingham in response to a shocking wave of violent crime.”

        https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/14/nearly-400-join-vigilante-mob-after-losing-trust-in-local-police-8138033/

        1. avatar GS650G says:

          Another story about citizens in the UK beings asked not to help. The police chief lamented they may have to just let fleeing or fighting peeps get away.
          Not sure what the disarmed populace should do but a good pair of running shoes might help.

          Tried to fund the story but could not find the link

        2. avatar OBOB says:

          did you notice (I am sure ya did) that most of that hot mess seemed to be caused or started by mid-easters or N Africans that the UK let in to be ‘humane’….this is what happens with weak borders…watched it happen to cali for the last 50 years…TILL i ran off to a free state!

          Vote Conservative–vote American first!

      2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        ollie,

        Now there is an interesting question: does the Democrat party drive our legacy media or does our legacy media drive the Democrat party?

        I honestly have no idea at this point.

        1. avatar GS650G says:

          It’s more like a circle jerk

        2. avatar Sprocket says:

          It all goes back to Academia. When I was younger, I used to think folks like Yuri Bezmenov sounded a bit nuts. However, as time has gone by, the notion that the domination of academia by the left is simply some late ripening fruit of a soviet intelligence project makes as much sense as anything else. Either that, or we’re simply seeing what happens to institutions run by and for coddled bourgeois douche bags that are still angry they didn’t get a pony for Christmas when they were twelve.

  2. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    You would expect anything different of the Main Stream Media,propaganda wing of the Commiecrat party,we mustn’t have truth or fact getting in the way of the agenda.

    1. avatar Southern Cross says:

      Australian gun owners realized in the late 1980s the media were out to get us and they haven’t been subtle about it either.

      We are openly blamed for the actions of criminals and are labelled as domestic violence perpetrators and worse.

  3. avatar LOL TTAG says:

    The Kentucky shooter was just another Republican doing what Republicans do.

    1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

      History and crime statistics would like a word with you.

    2. avatar Bob Jones says:

      Democrats founded the Ku Klux Klan.

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        Yeah and the parties switched their views on race in the 60s thanks to the Southern Strategy where the GOP courted the white southern Jim Crow vote. Selective ignorance of history isn’t pretty.

        1. avatar Red in CO says:

          Yep, in the 60s everyone got together in a big room and decided to simply switch idealogies, because that is a thing that happens and makes sense. Also, for the low, low price of twenty thousand dollars this incredible bridge can be yours!

          I mean, seriously, it’s not like there’s no information from that time period. Do some research into the Dixiecrats and you’ll find very quickly that the “Southern Stragedy” is as much of a lie as “if you like your current plan, you can keep it”

    3. avatar Ash says:

      Republicans are only 7% of the population, yet they commit over 50% of all murders.

      … oh wait, I read that wrong.

    4. avatar GS650G says:

      Troll in aisle 4.

    5. avatar Andrew Lias says:

      Which party is that of the klan, filibustering civil rights acts, the Confederacy, the Trail of Tears, re-segregating federal employees, interning the Japanese and a myriad of things I’ve forgotten?

      Hint:It’s not the Republicans.

      1. avatar Southern Cross says:

        And which political affiliation is shared by more than 7 in 10 of spree killers?

        And we are talking about REGISTERED political affiliation.

      2. avatar SoBe says:

        Also the only party to nuke (twice even) people.

  4. avatar Felix says:

    Here:

    http://dailyanarchist.com/2012/07/31/auditing-shooting-rampage-statistics/

    Been a while since I read it. His takeaway:

    “The average number of people killed in mass shootings when stopped by police is 14.29

    “The average number of people killed in a mass shooting when stopped by a civilian is 2.33”

    Most reports only include 4 or more dead as a mass shooting, excluding almost all cases stopped by civilians, biasing such reports to imply that only cops stop mass shootings.

    1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

      Ok that’s an interesting potential data gap especially when we do not know the metrics for intent when victim count is too low to hit the threshold.

      1. avatar Felix says:

        He counts non-family public shooters, I believe. Some reasonable definition. It’s a very good read, but kind of long.

    2. avatar Elaine D. says:

      4 or more deaths in a single incident, not including the shooter, is the loose FBI guideline from the 1980s, but there isn’t a standardized metric.

      https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/supplementary/mass-shootings.html

    3. avatar Mark N. says:

      Actually, the new metric is four or more shot, irrespective of the number killed.

      1. avatar Red in CO says:

        Thank you for actually using the word “irrespective” and not confusing it with “irregardless” (which is of course not a word)

      2. avatar Joel says:

        It also seems like the attacker always gets counted in the body count if he (or she?) offs himself.

        Ok help me out TTAG, any female mass shooters out there?!? I’m drawing a blank.

        1. avatar Geoff "Mess with the bull, get the horns" PR says:

          Not many, but there have been some :

          “According to a USA TODAY analysis, just 6 percent of mass shootings (defined as shootings that kill four or more people) from 2006 to 2017 were carried out by women. A Washington Post database that tracks mass shootings dating back to 1966 shows that among 159 perpetrators, just three were female.”

          https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/09/20/aberdeen-maryland-shooter-female-mass-shootings-unusual/1369185002/

        2. avatar Ragnar says:

          Female mass shooters? If you count the San Bernadino terrorist attack by Islamic extremists, one of them was a female.

  5. avatar Shire-man says:

    The media loves to make hay over a shooting by filling days or weeks with talk of “what can be done?” If they wanted to they could make just as much hay after a shooter is stopped by filling days or weeks with talk of “what went right?” but they won’t because a)straying into wrongthink will make heads explode and b)they’d be risking losing clout and money from their democrat bosses.

    Reporters should be reporting not social engineering.

  6. avatar former water walker says:

    Well yeah Lott. Preaching to the choir(and to the retardatroll’s).

  7. avatar Elaine D. says:

    I always think of the bar scene in “Deadpool” where the bad guy with wrestler side chick comes in and tries to start trouble.

    But as someone here keeps pointing out (is it MarkPA?), most people with a LTC don’t carry. Haven’t heard anyone offer thoughts about why that is, maybe they’re farther back in older articles and posts.

    1. avatar Rusty Chains says:

      Not speaking with much experience, since I almost always carry. I would imagine that it is a combination of Gun Free Zones, and a bit of lazy.

      1. avatar Elaine D. says:

        @Rusty

        I do as well. I’d be interested to know why people don’t carry excluding not being able to for work etc.

        1. avatar Rusty Chains says:

          For the dozen plus years that I worked for IBM the only time I disarmed was when I parked the car and went in for the day. Not sure I would do that now, with the little gats like the LCP 2 that you can get for deep concealed carry.

      2. avatar Utah CCW says:

        I agree about the gun free zones. That’s why I love Utah. Resident Concealed Carry Permit Holders can carry on public school campuses, public universities and essentially everywhere else. Signs prohibiting guns have no force of law, so unless they see it, you can carry. This goes for bars too.

        That is why it is crazy that anyone rates Arizona as a top state for gun owners. You can carry without a permit, but even with one, you can’t carry if there is a sign prohibiting it. It makes CCW very difficult. Utah does not have constitutional carry, but has everything else. Utah lowered the BAC for driving to .05, but is actively considering not applying that standard to carrying/using firearms. https://www.standard.net/news/government/utah-lawmakers-explore-dos-and-don-ts-of-drinking-and/article_18450da9-4467-5c2e-a926-1cfedbce1675.html

        Adding a note about the few comments related to workplace. Also in Utah, it is illegal for an employer to ban employees from keeping guns in their cars – unless the employer provides a secure location for storage.

        1. avatar Posseman says:

          “That is why it is crazy that anyone rates Arizona as a top state for gun owners.”

          Texas, too. For all their blathering on about how gun-friendly TX is, it’s a load of 🐴💩, given the force of law backing up 30.06 and 30.07 signage.

    2. avatar Geoff "Mess with the bull, get the horns" PR says:

      “…most people with a LTC don’t carry. Haven’t heard anyone offer thoughts about why that is…”

      If I had to offer a guess, I’d say it’s because they don’t think they will need it wherever they are going that day.

      Which is very bad logic. Where you feel most safe is where you are most vulnerable…

    3. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

      You should know movies are fiction. Reality is much harder.

  8. avatar Andrew Lias says:

    The problem is it’s hard to prove a life was saved. You just can’t be like X lives are saved. The sword cuts both ways though, so we need to be aggressive in pointing this out about gun control. I mean, if concealed carry saves just one life……………….

    1. avatar Elaine D. says:

      Numbers I guess.

      How do we know seatbelts save lives? Well, lots and lots of people drive. Easy to compare data from before/after seatbelt laws.

      Guns not so much. Gun owners are a minority. Seems to be somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of population. Out of those only another smaller percentage are licensed to carry. Out of those only another smaller percentage actually carries.

      1. avatar Geoff "Mess with the bull, get the horns" PR says:

        “Gun owners are a minority. Seems to be somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of population.”

        That’s what is reported by people taking polls or surveys.

        If anyone calls me and asks if I own a gun, my answer is NO.

        I *highly* suspect the actual percentage is much higher.

        And do you want to know a dirty secret, Elaine?

        I’m willing to bet that in the ‘Progressive’ social circles you travel, Liberals are keeping their ownership of guns on the down-low, for fear of being ostracized by their Progressive friends. You have mentioned here recently you get quite a few inquiries about gun ownership from the people you you associate with, when they find out you are a gun owner…

  9. avatar possum says:

    White’s don’t shoot White’s, what a dumb ass. Personally I would enjoy more articles of animals shooting humans, like the dog in Siberia, and the coyote ( was that Montana?) It was these stories of Animals DGU’s that prompted me to take up arms. If a dog can do it , a possum should be able to handle a firearm as well. We are armed people, most of us can’t read so your gun free signs have no meaning, we’ve never obeyed any laws, only see the future as now, and care not one bit for road building habitat destroying humans, the scourge of the earth. Raccoon said he was going to steal an Abrams

    1. avatar Dan B says:

      Whites shouldn’t shoot whites. We’ve lost any sense of solidarity ages ago. Sad.

      1. avatar Mark N. says:

        Shouldn’t? I think we have at least 2500 years of European history to discuss, since it seems to have been quite the common occurrence….

        1. avatar Southern Cross says:

          Wasn’t there 30 years and 100 years of white Europeans killing other white Europeans? In the 20th century there was a 4 year period and another 6 year period as well.

        2. avatar Hannibal says:

          I feel like the only time whites didn’t shoot whites was when there were no guns.

          So they used bows.

          “solidarity” what??

        3. avatar Geoff "Mess with the bull, get the horns" PR says:

          ““solidarity” what??”

          He’s either a racist or he’s trolling, thinking we are ‘racist’ and will agree with him.

          Go back to ‘Storm Front’, Dan B. We’re not interested in that shit…

  10. avatar Ralph says:

    “Just think of the media as Democratic Party operatives with bylines, and it all makes sense.™”

    — Glenn Reynolds

  11. avatar Kay Inoue says:

    “That’s one reason why 98 percent of mass public shootings since 1950 have occurred in places where citizens are banned from having guns.”

    Anybody have a source for this?

  12. avatar JohnS says:

    Source? See the link to Lott’s article.

  13. avatar Bierce Ambrose says:

    Well, if you start counting cases of “shots not fired”, you’d have to include every day, every despised place that doesn’t get shot-up by whack-jobs.

    I’m pretty sure most journalists can’d count that high.

  14. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    This story was purposefully presented to miss lead the reader. Especially any black reader. And I’m not talking about John Lott. He is a great man. I met him at a 2A rally in Nashville Tn.
    If blacks knew they could own and conceal carry guns legally the “hood” would be a much safer place. The original story left out just who the Good guy with a gun was, that shot at the white racist. Stopping the attack. It was a good black man with a gun.

    https://www.ammoland.com/2018/11/concealed-carry-holder-stops-mass-murder-before-police-arrive/#axzz5X2yTgaqD

    I’ve been collecting stories like this. They are not easy to find. But they are out there. They really to help when you have to teach children about the Second Amendment.

    “Firearm Education: Teaching the Second Amendment in Kentucky school system grades K through 12”
    http://digitalcommons.murraystate.edu/bis437/149

    Tyrants are working to separate Americans by race. These people are extremely dangerous. Only an educated population can ultimately defeat them.

    Thank you to Dean Weingarden and Phil the Advise show.

    1. avatar Jean-Claude says:

      “If blacks knew they could legally own and carry weapons….”? What kind of paternalistic nonsense is THAT? You think black people are so stupid they don’t know there are concealed carry permits available?

      No, sir—-they are well aware. But a sizable percentage of black people have felonies and cannot own guns. It’s not a money issue, either. CCW permits aren’t any more expensive than a pair of Jordans or some Yeezys, and you can buy a quality concealable pistol for $300 all day long.

      Blacks have a cultural unwillingness to cooperate with the police, which is a large part of why crime is rampant in the ‘hood. It may also be a contributing factor towards them not applying for CCW permits, but to say it’s because they don’t know about them is pretty laughable.

      There is a massive violent crime problem in minority America. Blacks and Hispanics are engines of chaos in whichever community they gather in any sort of number. We can argue forever about why that is, but ultimately it just IS.

      If blacks cooperated with the police and ratted on criminals, crime would drop. But they don’t, so this is the result.

      1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

        You sir are not the only who is out of touch with people with NO gun rights in the major cities. You are seriously lacking in the facts of just how bad things are in the United States, in terms of gun civil rights.
        You need to get educated.

        “Few Concealed Handgun Permits Given to Hispanics, Blacks, or Women in Los Angeles County”

        https://crimeresearch.org/2017/07/concealed-handgun-permits-given-hispanics-blacks-women-los-angeles-county/

        “Wealthier whites get 90 percent of licenses in Illinois”

        https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/29/chicago-concealed-carry-gun-permit-law-disarms-poo/

        NYC GUN PERMIT APPLICANTS CLAIM RACIAL BIAS AGAINST NYPD OVER LICENSE DENIALS

        https://dailycaller.com/2018/09/14/nyc-gun-permit-applicants-claim-racial-bias-against-nypd-over-license-denials/

        “If blacks cooperated with the police and ratted on criminals, crime would drop. But they don’t, so this is the result.”

        Criminals ratting out each other will not help law abiding black people. But law abiding blacks with legal guns shooting criminals will help the “Hood”. Parts of US cities are combat zones. And the good people have been disarmed by the government.

        My apologizes to Mr Weingarten for misspelling his name.

  15. avatar Gumpy Old Guy says:

    Using Occam’s razor, the simplest reason is an armed citizen can mitigate a potential mass shooting to the point it not news worthy. To be media worthy a story needs to be a sensational crime, an aborted violent crime is lost in the background noise.

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