Battle Born Munitions Sues Dick’s Sporting Goods for Market Manipulation

Wikimedia Commons / dontforget789

Battle Born Munitions (BBM), an international supplier of ammunition as well as duty products for governments, is demanding $5 million in damages from Dick’s Sporting Goods, accusing Dick’s of breach of contract, fraudulent promises, and “manipulat[ing] retail markets for its benefit and to the disadvantage of vendors and consumers.”

In the filing, BBM asserts that Dick’s failed to hold up their end of a contract worth over $3 million, resulting in a “substantial cash shortfall.” In the deal, BBM agreed to deliver a large shipment of Field & Stream branded ammunition, which Dick’s would accept by November of 2016. Forecasting a spike in demand for ammunition following the 2016 election, Dick’s wanted to delay retail sale of the Field & Stream ammo until it could charge a higher price. When that didn’t happen, Dick’s refused to accept the shipment or pay BBM for the ammo.

Here is a relevant excerpt from the 11-page, 25-item document of complaints (bold emphasis is ours):

Like most other large, publicly-owned, “bricks-and-mortar” retailers, the value of Dick’s stock is under pressure due to competition from internet-based retailers. Stock market analysts consider inventory turnover to be a vital measure of a retailer’s financial performance. The number of days inventory sits on a retailer’s shelves prior to sale is an important factor. The day sales of inventory (“DSI”) is a financial measure of a company’s performance that gives investors an idea of how long it takes a company to turn inventory into sales. A low DSI indicates that a retailer is achieving satisfactory inventory turnover and is attractive to investors.

In order to bolster the value of its stock in 2016 and 2017, Dick’s sought to lower its DSI by manipulating its branded inventory. BBM was a victim of this manipulation. BBM could not sell the branded ammunition to a third party. BBM was forced to warehouse Dick’s house-branded goods for more than 365 days. Meanwhile, since Dick’s refused to take delivery on the schedule it initially proposed, the house-branded goods were not counted as inventory for purposes of calculating Dick’s DSI. Through its manipulation of house branded inventory on a large scale Dick’s achieves twin goals: (i) a lower DSI since the branded goods are not counted as inventory, and (ii) a ready-supply of branded goods (warehoused at the vendor’s expense) that it can draw down at its convenience. BBM’s branded ammunition is just one incidence among Case 2:18-cv-01418-NBF Document 1 Filed 10/23/18 Page 6 of 11 many of “house” goods caught up in Dick’s efforts to manipulate its market value.

[…] Market manipulation is a business practice used by Dick’s in the past. In October 2008, Dick’s settled FTC charges that of market manipulation in the market for the retail sale of golf merchandise. Dick’s has engaged in a pattern of unreasonable and unlawful business practices designed to manipulate retail markets for its benefit and to the disadvantage of vendors and consumers.

As a result of these unethical practices, attorneys argue, BBM lost out on an international contract, worth $48 million dollars, to supply twelve helicopters to the government of Lebanon. This transaction had been approved by The U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of Industry and Security, an export license had been issued, and BBM personnel had spent over 12 months and $65,000 in travel expenses in order to negotiate this agreement.

The helicopter manufacturer, Bell Helicopters, required a deposit of $3.72 million (10% of the wholesale price) from BBM in order to secure the shipment. However, because Dick’s had unexpectedly kept BBM from liquidating over $4.4 million, BBM was unable to pay that deposit and could not fulfill the helicopter contract. As the suit filing reads, “BBM would have had sufficient cash to make the deposit if it were not for Dick’s failure to perform and BBM’s detrimental reliance on Dick’s misrepresentation.”

If this storyline is true, it does look like dishonest business practice on Dick’s part. Whether it was indeed a breach of contract, or simply a misunderstanding used to Dick’s advantage, remains to be seen. We’ll be watching for the outcome of this suit.

comments

  1. So sad to see Dick’s Sporting Goods fall so far. My uncle knew the original “Dick” when Dick’s was a small sporting goods store in New York. It is so sad to see a once good business become corrupted and political. Happens too often, I think. Just bad business all the way around!

    1. avatar Creedmore Clearwater Revival says:

      The owner of that chain is a complete ****. I know him personally and he’s a prick of a personality and as a business man. I also personally know his crazy, mentally ill, bitch of a wife. She was abusive to her ex husband and to her biological son and daughter.

      1. avatar possum says:

        There’s a bad moon on the rise

      2. avatar Kyle says:

        Seek help

      3. avatar Jacobi the Stabber says:

        There is no single “owner” any more – only a board and stock holders.
        Please remove head from ass before leaving dumb ass comments. At least then you’ll be able to read your words before posting the mindless drivel.

        1. avatar Batterycap says:

          We know he meant CEO, Everyone else knows he meant CEO. But, like the grammar Nazis, there has to be one that has to present themselves as the all seeing and all knowing. The punctuation must have been good, or you would have no doubt commented on that too.

    2. avatar Dale Hawley says:

      My grandfather and Dick Stack were very good friends “back in the day”. Eddie was always a piece of work 🙁

  2. avatar Huntmaster says:

    They should have been dead to anybody with firearms years ago.

    1. avatar Jeremy S. says:

      Indeed. They’ve been Dicks for a long time.

    2. avatar PWinKY says:

      No question. I haven’t been inside their store since December 2012. They can rot.

    3. avatar John Percival says:

      I used to buy all my shooting, fishing and weightlifting supplies from them on Emerald dr. In Tempe. Since their new policies of ignoring all sportsmen, I have not bought , nor will I go into their store. Personally I hope they are driven out of business. Political Dick’s.

  3. avatar Sam I Am says:

    Once worked for a fulfillment company that had a world-renowned customer (cannot name the two companies for fear of retaliation, and to be fair). Studying customer activity it became obvious that over the last several years, the customer had been selling inventory supplied by my company, but holding payment for a minimum of one year. The terms of sale agreed to declared that the customer would pay NLT 180 days from receipt of invoice (or so we thought, which is the crux of the matter).

    The game the customer was playing resulting in notification on day 179 (depending on holidays) that the customer rejected the invoice as being deficient (customer term, “Not in receipt of a valid invoice”. It turned out that the customer was skewering us with a provision our company wrote – including the words “…receipt of a valid invoice”, not just “upon receipt of an invoice”. We stuck ourselves with the wording, and the implication of the wording.

    The customer determined that they were the final arbiters as to what constituted “a valid invoice”, and even the most microscopic error invalidated the invoice. We would also learn that the customer had made a number of mistakes about validity, but rejected the invoice nonetheless. So the game was to reject invoices, spend time resolving the issue, then re-starting the 180-day clock upon receipt of the “corrected” invoice.

    After thorough review of the economics of the arrangement with the world-renowned customer, our company “fired” the brand name. The hit to the profit line was amazingly minimal, but we reinforced our contracts, and never again allowed a customer such draconian control over payments for inventory.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Sam, good story. By chance, did your company also advise your competitors of these facts, so as to nip it in the bud for the customer to use again? I suspect not, just curious.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “Sam, good story. By chance, did your company also advise your competitors of these facts, ”

        Fulfillment is a funny business. In essence, you are a customer of your customer. That is, you must “sell” your fulfillment capability and reliability (making company X your customer), while simultaneously performing the fulfillment – which makes company X your customer. We were most concerned with ensuring all our other fulfillment “customers” did not copy the invoice delay gambit. Protecting ourselves, while not helping our competitors protect themselves, was considered a competitive advantage (which we couldn’t actually prove because competitors would never admit they screwed up just like we did).

        1. Great economics lesson there. Thanks.

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Great economics lesson there. Thanks.”

          Happy to be of use, from time-to-time.

      2. avatar Hannibal says:

        That could constitute tortious interference.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “That could constitute tortious interference.”

          It has been awhile since the episode, but I don’t remember any turtles being involved.

    2. avatar Southern Cross says:

      And this is why small businesses hate dealing with big business and government. The customer delays and obfuscates payment so the business will give up and take the loss while the customer gets the goods and or services for nothing.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “The customer delays and obfuscates payment so the business will give up and take the loss while the customer gets the goods and or services for nothing.”

        One of the favorite prudent and common sense tactics is to deduct the discount for early payment in the payment, then let your company deal with the dilemma of whether to aggravate the buyer in asking for the discount back, or just “eat” the loss. However, people aren’t stupid, so the improper discount capture is factored into the prices, while everyone pats themselves on the back for being the only company to figure out how to screw a supplier.

    3. avatar Bigus Dickus says:

      I would guess this un-name company to be Walmart.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “I would guess this un-name company to be Walmart.”

        We always had Walmart and Sam’s on our “medium potential” sales planning.

        But in college I ended up working for the Mafia: pizza connection.

  4. The store is aptly named, because Dick’s Sporting Goods truly is run by a bunch of dicks!
    I couldn’t have named the store better myself.
    Still, there’s no needs for Dick’s management to keep trying to prove what total dicks they are.
    We’ve known they were dicks for years, ever since they started discriminating against black guns (years ago, long before Parkland), so they can stop trying to prove what dicks they are.
    We get it, Dick’s, you’re total dicks. If you try any harder, you’ll have to rename yourself “Asshole’s Sporting Goods.”

    1. avatar LazrBeam says:

      I suspect that before Dick’s can become Asshole’s Sporting Goods that they would first have to transmorgify to Taint’s Sporting Goods unless, of course, they know of a shortcut.

      1. avatar Wayne A Hendrix says:

        I think the only way to change their branding would be to name themselves after similar female body parts… that would enable them to at least sell female golfer thongs with credibility…

  5. avatar BLAMMO says:

    It also sounds like they were effectively planning to “gouge” the ammo market, in the event Hillary Clinton had won and there was a run on ammo. A nice hedge, if you can get away with it.

  6. avatar RA-15 says:

    I think that big yellow sign on the storefront speaks volumes about DICK’S. Good riddance to the chain, hopefully field & stream will follow suit. Talk about an un, American , anti 2nd Amendment company. I have no sympathy for Dick’s. The day they made their big political statement by destroying their AR- pattern inventory , is the day they put the last nail in their coffin. Re brand the ammo & sell it to recover some of the loss , caused by the Dick’s

    1. avatar Guest says:

      Buddy it’s a doctored photo done with MS Paint most likely.

      1. avatar Another Guest says:

        It’s not a doctored photo, look closely. That said, one store closing does not mean the chain is closing.

        1. avatar TXRabbit47 says:

          Closing…
          Well, we can only hope that the anti-everything we stand for is paid in kind.

    2. avatar Wayne A Hendrix says:

      Last I was at a local one, they didn’t even have adequate ammo to kill a turkey.

  7. avatar Wes in OR says:

    “Dicks failure to perform”

    *snicker

    1. avatar Shallnot BeInfringed says:

      Aw, you “beat” me to it…

  8. avatar GS650G says:

    Haven’t darkened their door since they decided 20 year olds were children.
    I’ll pay more elsewhere.
    I’m ashamed to have bought three guns there over the years.

  9. avatar Ralph says:

    Cooking the books is part of American business. I don’t know of a single big company that hasn’t done this or similar things at some point. One giant retail company whose name I shall not mention has a well-earned reputation for screwing its American vendors. Chinese vendors will do whatever it takes to steal business, so screwing them is unnecessary.

    FYI, Field & Stream centerfire ammo is made in Bosnia. Their shotgun shells are made by Federal in Minnesota.

    1. avatar neiowa says:

      Dang sure of every mega retailer based in Arkansas. For decades. How they grew. Loose a dollar a unit, make it up on volume. When a item doesn’t sell the mfg had to take it back. KMart could never make such stick and look at them now.

  10. avatar former water walker says:

    Dick’s sux…even more than we all realized. A deal’s a DEAL. Meanwhile I bought ammo from Cabela’s yesterday on sale and using a discount club card. So far Bass Pro Shop’s hasn’t wrecked them(their guns are ridiculously high though).

  11. avatar What about...? says:

    They’re living up to their name by dicking around their customers, clients and partners… the whores of doing anti 2A business I suppose

  12. avatar Kap says:

    Last time I was in Dinks (dicks) I received a lecture on How I should shop for a new Rifle, problem was the sales rep was all of 20 yrs old, being an old Veteran I played him. especially when he was pushing all the fancy junk! blew him away when I said I wanted a Savage Model 320 bolt action 30-30, talk about a leg drip scrambling, he had to ask supervisor what it was and Supervisor didn’t know either but said he could Order one.
    Goodbye Dicks have a nice going out of business sale!

  13. avatar Fireman306 says:

    I hope the sorry corporate bastards who are DICKS end up in a life of poverty shitting on sidewalks with their affiliated political party they are so willing to gaslight for! They deserve nothing more than scooping up human shit in San Francisco for a living after this stupid career suicide move the pulled and then screwed these decent people out of a Lucrative opportunity to make an honest living. Scumbags !

  14. avatar Rusty Chains says:

    Some years ago when I was in the market for a new Ruger 10/22 and they had them on sale. I gave them my GA carry license (automatic NICS bypass) and the clerk disappeared into the back. I asked him what he was doing, and he admitted that he was calling in the NICS check per company policy. I should have told him to keep the gun, but I paid for it and told him his company policy means I won’t be back. That was years before they showed their Dick to the world at large, and I still haven’t been back.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      I love my LGS, has no idea how to phone in a NICS check, never done it, only sells to LE and LTC, which do not require NICS.

    2. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “I gave them my GA carry license (automatic NICS bypass)”

      Does federal law permit states to issue approval cards that ignore the requirement for a NICS background check? Just for Georgia, or is that “loophole” available to all states?

      1. avatar Guns across the glass says:

        Hi Sam. I think it depends on the state and the feds agreement as to if the state’s CWP/LTC requirements.

        Here in Arizona, it is good to go. The 4473 is completed and the buyer/transferee’s AZCWP info is entered on the form by the FFL. No NICS check required.

        Guns across the glass

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          Interesting. Need to look into it.

        2. avatar Joe says:

          North Carolina as well. No NICS required if the buyer has a concealed carry permit issued by NC.
          The reason is that a NICS check is done when a CCW is applied for and it’s valid for 5 years.

          Doing a NICS check a the time of purchase would be washing the car twice.

      2. avatar Kendahl says:

        Whether your state CCW permit substitutes for a NICS check varies from state to state. When I expressed surprise at not needing a NICS check to buy an S&W M&P, the salesman told me the background check the state performed before issuing my permit far exceeded a NICS check. If I do something that disqualifies me, the state will demand the return of my permit.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          I had no idea a NICS check could be bypassed. Always thought a federal check was required, regardless of state law. Something I need to dig into.

          Thanx

      3. avatar Wizardofwaz says:

        Ohio also allows bypassing the NICS check if you have a ccw from the state and it had been issued within a certain time period.

      4. avatar SouthAl says:

        AL, too.

        1. avatar American Patriot says:

          It’s not a loop hole….Please don’t sound like a Dem. If you can legally carry a gun don’t you think you should be able to buy one….Duhhhh

          All states that have a carry permit issued for 5 or less years don’t need a NICS check if you have the permit….what would be the point? You can carry but you need to get checked to buy one…..Wake up & know the laws.

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “All states that have a carry permit issued for 5 or less years don’t need a NICS check if you have the permit.”

          This is what I will ask my LGS tomorrow. While not supporting NICS checks, I understand the thinking that between gun purchases through an FFL, one could become a prohibited person, so a check would be needed for assurance. Same with CCWs – you have one, but could have become prohibited since, which a NICS check might uncover.

          It just seems odd (too good to be true) that a state permit eliminates the need to fill out a 4473, and if the 4473 is still required for CCW holders, that the form would not be submitted to NICS. Which, again, means I need to talk to my LGS, and maybe one or two other FFL shops.

        3. avatar Shallnot BeInfringed says:

          “All states that have a carry permit issued for 5 or less years don’t need a NICS check if you have the permit”

          Absolutely FALSE. My state has 5 year renewal, but does not provide for bypassing NICS or speeding up the purchasing process in any way – it’s a concealed CARRY license, nothing more.

          Don’t know where you heard that, “American Patriot”, but I certainly hope you haven’t already misled too many gullible types spreading this BS across the internet.

          Maybe you’re the one who should “Wake up & know the laws”?

        4. avatar American Patriot says:

          I do know the laws, especially in my state & it you look up that law on the ATF website you will see the listing of all the states that it applies to. There are only a few that it does not apply to. Don’t be ignorant & open your mouth before you find out the facts, thats what the left does.
          Here is the ATF website: https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/permanent-brady-permit-chart

        5. avatar Mark H says:

          The NICS check in some states is actually run through their local system instead of directly to the Feds. Some of these states even have a fee. When the check is directly through the Feds, a CCW issued pursuent to a background check within the previous 5 years is good to bypass the phone call/check. That’s written into the Federal Law. Has nothing to do with state law.

          States where a CCW does not bypass the check means that the check is not through the Feds but through a State intermediary.

      5. avatar Chris says:

        Sam I Am, the “state permit exception” doesn’t change the need to fill out a 4473 from a licensed dealer. That form is always required. What it does exempt is the need for a NICS check and the dealer doesn’t have to fill in that portion of the form. Instead, the dealer fills out a different portion of the form using the information on the CCW. If you look at the form (bottom of page 2 below where you sign) you will see the two options for the dealer. The NICS section is first and the license section follows. To be compliant the State rules must require a permit holder to send in their permit upon becoming a prohibited person. If they don’t, they commit a series of felonies including lying on the 4473. The rule is designed to prevent NICS from becoming overloaded.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          Seems I do not buy enough guns to know about this. Will be looking into CCW, but my pistol is a Beretta Neos .22. Not exactly concealable. Should I buy a .50cal DE, or a 6.5 CreedMagic carbine pistol?

        2. avatar Joe says:

          NC General Statute:
          “Effective December 1, 1995, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (BATF)
          concluded that the handgun permitting scheme established in North Carolina complies with the
          exceptions provided in the Brady Law. Therefore, North Carolina’s handgun purchase permits
          will suffice as a suitable alternative method for the purchase of a firearm in North Carolina from
          a federally licensed firearms dealer under Brady.
          Therefore, all firearm sales from federally licensed dealers after November 30, 1998 must
          include a NICS inquiry or a recognized alternative, such as a valid North Carolina-issued pistol
          purchase permit. The specifics of NICS and its alternatives are discussed below. “

        3. avatar Sam I Am says:

          Understand the relation between handgun purchase permit, and NICS exception. Guess I was thinking the handgun purchase permit is the same as a concealed carry permit.

  15. avatar m. says:

    poor dick’s-uckers

  16. avatar Matthew says:

    I bought a 10/22 from them a month ago while open-carrying an SR9 on my hip. When they had to call the store manager to come and carry the boxed-up 10/22 to the cash register, hold it while I paid for it, and then carry it out the front door for me, I told them that would be the only time I was their customer.

    1. avatar Wizardofwaz says:

      It’s actually a smart policy to protect people in the store. In 8 years of selling guns…. your the 1st person I’ve seen complain about it.

      1. avatar HuntingtonGuy says:

        It’s a ridiculous and offensive policy. As an old combat vet, NY CCW, NRA Instructor and competitive shooter, it pisses me off when some 18y/o has to perp walk me out of a store.
        Insisting on a pistol license showing the caliber ammunition being purchased (yep, in our part of NYS our PL has every handgun owned listed on the back (addl cards for lots o guns) showing mfr, model, serial number, caliber and action type). If you want to buy .45 but don’t have one on your license, the HS junior with no hair on his lip yet will send you packin…without your ammo.
        Requiring DOB in their little signature gizmo? No thanks.
        Dicks is a disgraceful example of a perversion of capitalism. They’ve made billions exploiting the American system and infringe on our rights at will.
        Well, I myself and every gun owner I know here on Long Island would rather not shoot than patronize any of their stores.
        I hope they die a slow, agonizing corporate death that leaves the descendants of their management team in debt and shame for 8 generations.
        If Ruger, Savage, Remington and the rest of the gunmakers who still sell in the Dicks stores want my business in the future they need to tell Dicks to take a flying leap first.
        Shopping there, even for non gun goodies is tacit approval of their policies.

        1. avatar KBonLI says:

          Was at local Walmart here on LI to purchase ammo. Wanted to buy 12 and 20 g. shotgun shells, 22 and 38 special. Didn’t have my state “permission” license so they would’t sell me the 38 ammo.

      2. avatar Wayne A Hendrix says:

        I had the same with a .22 Marlin… never another purchase there.

    2. avatar bontai joe says:

      Many years ago (1970’s-80’s), in northwest NJ there was a small chain of dept stores called Lane Co. They sold guns, but would not allow you to buy ammo on the same day. It was a store policy created when one day, a scumbag bought gun and ammo and then robbed the store. Lane Co has long since gone out of business. I bought a lot of guns and ammo from them back then because they were the cheapest place around (pre-Walmart in my area)

  17. avatar possum says:

    I would guess Dicks isn’t the only business plays that inventory game. The ammo company shouldn’t have imade the deal with Bell copters until their eggs had hatched. Million dollar gun and ammo sales is one reason I’m really not to worried about the “Gubment” banning guns and ammo because they want their piece of the pie also. It’s all about the money.

    1. avatar rt66paul says:

      It isn’t the US gumbent wanting to ban guns and ammo, it is the NWO, the people that run the major corporations in the industrialized world that want power over the governments of the world. They are stronger individually than many countries and together think they can take on the US.
      The problem here is if the US decides to give them the boot, we will not be a world player any more and would go the way of nations that tried to control consumer products(like any communist or fascist state ever)

      1. avatar neiowa says:

        You are delusional. The feckless socialists of the EU doesn’t a diddly squat.

  18. avatar FedUp says:

    You order it made/packaged with your name on it, you pay for it.
    I’d say Dick’s clearly owes the contract price plus all cost associated with their breach of contract.

    Thanks for spreading the news, TTAG.
    If I was going to waver on my intent to never darken Dick’s doorstep, this would have stopped me.

  19. avatar Ragnarredbeard says:

    Never do business with a business named Dick’s. Its like they want you to know who and what they are. Its as clear a warning as you can get.

  20. avatar Ranger Rick says:

    Just another reason to continue to boycott these jerks.

  21. avatar David Davis says:

    I hope Academy Sports goes down with them.

    1. avatar Brandon says:

      Just out of curiosity, why Academy Sports too?

      1. avatar LazrBeam says:

        Good question. I’m curious, too.

  22. avatar American Patriot says:

    Send em into chapter 7 (liquidation) would suit me & many I know just fine!

  23. avatar Patriot says:

    Dick’s has already lost my patronage with its firearms BS and”in refusing to sell types not associated specifically with hunting. But there are many that would continue to support this political rabble.

  24. avatar MikeC says:

    To Sam I Am. In Idaho, A valid and current CCW allows a firearm transfer without calling into NICS . You still have to fill out 4473 form. You use CCW number instead of NICS verification number. It is only way I will do transfers. I had a issue with a delayed NICS check and it caused some problems for customer after. It is so much easier for me.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      Thanks for the info !

  25. avatar Bob999 says:

    Dicks? Isn’t that another one of those mall anchor stores that is in a slow tail spin into financial ruin helped along by a politically minded corporate decision to piss off half its potential customer base?

    1. avatar Wayne A Hendrix says:

      Yes. I think you have it all listed right there.

  26. avatar Vincent Brady says:

    Remember there is an boycott underway to put Dicks out of business, do not purchase anything from them!

  27. avatar Jon says:

    Won’t shop Dick’s nor Meijer or Walmart. Anyone that discriminated against young adults. Surly doesn’t get our business. When Walmart up the alcohol sales from 21 years of age to 24. And there tobacco sales from 18 years of age to 21. And Meijer up the age on alcohol sales from 21 years of age to 24 years of age. Double standard. It’s not about right or wrong. It’s about control. Fucking Nazis Company just like Nazis politician wanting to make unconstitutional gun laws.

  28. avatar Alan says:

    Might criminal prosecution of Dick’s, civil actions being another issue, be appropriate?

  29. avatar Aleric says:

    Another example of what happens when Liberals get control of a business.

  30. avatar Daniel G Dixon says:

    I will not buy from or even enter a Dicks sporting goods store until, either they reverse their discriminatory practices, or I see the bankruptcy sell off signs. I am guessing it will be the second option, as their CEO, and Board of directors are apparently complete morons who will ride their bad decisions all the way. At that point any purchases I make will go to their creditors, not Dicks shareholders, so sucks to be them.

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