Vox: America’s Abundance of Guns is Dangerous for Law Enforcement

courtesy Getty

“’Police officers in the United States, in reality, need to be conscious of and are trained to be conscious of the fact that literally every single person they come in contact with may be carrying a concealed firearm. That’s true for a 911 call. It’s true for a barking dog call. It’s true for a domestic violence incident. It’s true for a traffic stop. It’s true for everything,’ [said David Kennedy, a criminologist at John Jay College].”

“This is reflective of America’s broader gun problem. Compared to other developed nations, America simply has many more gun deaths than its similar peers. That’s in large part because the country’s abundance of guns makes it so easy to carry out gun violence.” – German Lopez in Vox, The Florence, South Carolina Shooting Shows America’s Gun Problem Hurts Police, Too

comments

  1. avatar MGD says:

    Tell that to the officer’s whose lives have been saved by concealed carry permit holders.

    1. avatar CliffH says:

      Here’s a better quote:

      “There are over 350 million firearms in the possession of over 100 million American citizens. If we were a problem, you’d know it.”

      1. avatar rtw1951 says:

        A pox on Vox.

      2. avatar Nanashi says:

        350? It was 420 million last year.

        1. avatar Eric in Oregon says:

          Tragic boating accidents.

        2. avatar john says:

          400 million was last stated update. Give or take another 50 million not registered. total about 450 million. Most recent statistics was 32000 deaths from guns in a year with 20000 being suicides. So 12000 violent deaths from 450 million guns.

          Most recent stat on vehicles in USA, 220 million registered. Most recent year those caused 70000 deaths.

          What health crisis? Where is the problem? One is a constitutional right, one is not. One has twice as many in our population but causes half of the deaths of the other.

          Statistics don’t care about your feelings. Antis need to take these stats, goto their safe spot and cry it out.

      3. avatar MGD says:

        I like that too!

    2. avatar VerendusAudeo says:

      Only if you acknowledge that the concealed carriers were saving officers who were being shot at by criminals with guns.

      1. avatar Scoutino says:

        Sometimes they were, sometimes they weren’t. Sometimes the cop got beaten to pulp by unarmed perp.

        US has much greater firearms ownership than other countries. It doesn’t take a PhD to figure out that there might be more “gun deaths” than in say Europe. (In other news, Sahara reports very few “water deaths”.)But still much less than in other, less developed countries with draconian anti gun laws, like Brazil or Mexico. Maybe there is also some other, perhaps ethnic factor in play?

        1. avatar Frank says:

          The “gun deaths” number used by Vox is nearly 2/3 suicide. Lots of developed democracies have higher rates of violent deaths beyond places like Brazil, for example Japan and S. Korea, have much higher rates of violent death (suicide plus homicide)

        2. avatar Jean-Claude says:

          Murder in America is pretty much a minority issue. 51% of murders are committed by blacks. Another sizable portion are committed by brown people from Mexico, Central and South America, and Puerto Rico. The FBI classifies them as “WHITE” but we know what they really are.

          America has a problem with violent minorities.

    3. avatar B.D. says:

      Yes, we will defend them, but when it comes down to it, it’s for our protection AGAINST them. We all know it’s true, it doesn’t hurt to have a respectful debate on the fact that a police state can be a huge problem. The government loves to manipulate agencies to do their dirty work. And while most decent officers would never abide by such tyranny, the sad fact is that most would rather not have their assets seized or families put in harms way when it comes to the “small” second amendment infringements that eventually amount to the large scale mass confiscation. It’s a touchy and scary subject, but try to look at it from a defensive standpoint instead of just constantly waving those rights. Comply with common sense, but don’t submit to tyranny. Private agencies are already a scary side of Nazi Germany that exist in out society. We can’t allow them too much control, but also can’t allow racist mobs to hold criminals to a higher standard than the officers who do nothing wrong in those times of split second life or death situations.

  2. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    So here’s your ‘what’s your point’ quote;

    ‘It is rare for police officers to be shot or killed in a mass shooting, and on-duty police deaths have generally trended down for the past few decades.’

    1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

      Here’s another;

      ‘This is a crude analysis, not a peer-reviewed study. So caveats apply: Correlation is not causation.’

  3. avatar dwb says:

    Because Vox and the left are so concerned with police, right?

    1. avatar TrueBornSonofLiberty says:

      And dismissed the fact that most cops have close family members who carry concealed. Primarily because they intimately know the real life, everyday threats that exist in today’s criminal society.

      1. avatar rt66paul says:

        That being said, each of us have a point where we would shoot that weapon and a human being. A polite society is a good one, but LEOs deal will people that are having the worst day of their lives on a weekly basis. LEOs have to defuse the situation by disarming(hopefully temporarily) certain people with whom they come in contact.

        Distraught people can be very dangerous.

        1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

          Yup.
          After arriving on a family beef call, my attention was usually on the most distraught person on scene.
          Holy crap, they can switch to attack mode in a heartbeat.
          Always, always, always, move the dialogue out of the kitchen and away from the knives!
          I’ve got a nice scar as a reminder of that.

        2. avatar Sam says:

          Well put Tom, and it only goes to illustrate that a gun is not the only weapon that every LEO needs to be concerned about. They need to be aware that virtually anything can be turned into a weapon to be used against them. It’s not about guns but rather about the unpredictability of people.

        3. avatar Mark N. says:

          I suspect that, aside from auto accidents, the greatest risk to officers is domestic violence calls. Guns, knives, bottles, fists and feet, you name it. People who are really really pissed off tend to not come quietly.

    2. avatar Chris Mallory says:

      Cops are the enforcement tools of big government, of course the progressives and communists are concerned about them.

      1. avatar B.D. says:

        Sad but true. However, the alternative is a militarized state or total anarchy… Checks and balances must be maintained.

      2. avatar Jean-Claude says:

        Right now cops are the thin blue line protecting civilized citizens from the violent horde. If there were no police to keep the ghetto denizens contained in their own ‘hoods, they would spread out and Death Wish suburban America. They’re a necessary and appreciated force.

        But anyone who thinks Officer Friendly will be able to take part in gun confiscation raids without there being consequences, they’re mistaken. When local officers and deputies start kicking in doors and taking middle-class veterans’ guns, they’re going to learn what it feels like to be victimized.

        Cops live in your neighborhood. They shop at local stores. Everybody knows where their neighborhood cop lives. Anyone who takes part in oppression becomes a target,and then you have dead cops.

        My thinking is the rank and file are smart enough to realize this.

  4. avatar ROBERT POWELL says:

    this is the propaganda of the communist left the clinton soros click of bastard marxist fools that are trying to turn this great country into a socialist shit-hole .all financed by soros=bloomberg=and the communist party..

    1. avatar Bearpaw says:

      Bingo!

      No, I don’t agree with you but you managed to stuff every anti-left buzz word into your post except for nazi, Obama, and antifa. Had you included those words too I could have blacked out my entire right wingnut bingo card with tinfoil markers.

      1. avatar ollie says:

        Soros was convicted of insider trading in France in 2002 and lost his final appeals in 2011.
        Why is a convicted law-breaker maggot like Soros allowed to work in the US financial system ?
        Did he bribe Obama ????

      2. avatar Frank says:

        Since Soros and Bloomberg do finance Vox, how is it a tin-foil?

    2. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      “said David Kennedy, a criminologist at John Jay College].”

      How ironic that some Marxist at a collage named for one of the founders and first Chief Justice of the United States,is in favor of subverting the Constitution.

      Jay worked to ratify the United States Constitution in New York in 1788. He was a co-author of The Federalist Papers along with Alexander Hamilton and James Madison, and wrote five of the 85 essays. After the establishment of the new federal government, Jay was appointed by President George Washington the first Chief Justice of the United States, serving from 1789 to 1795.

  5. avatar Grace12 says:

    I’m not going to waste my time counting them but that idiot used a lot of words to say nothing.

  6. avatar Shire-man says:

    How many people have been shot for having a cell phone, wallet, TV remote or nothing at all in their hand?
    Do cops in these gun-free fantasy nations operate under the assumption that their suspects are not armed or that they may be armed?

    1. avatar Indiana Tom says:

      Well, we all know that the adherents of the Religion of Peace in the Special European Urban Zones always cooperate with the Polizei and never have weapons.
      To assume otherwise would be Islamophobic and racist!

    2. avatar rt66paul says:

      50 years after they take the guns from subjects in a country, LEOs are still expecting others to be armed. This is not about safety for the masses or for the “good guys”. It is about disarming the subjects that may not agree(see: strongly disagree) with the ongoing restrictions placed upon them by a government (see: shadow government or corpracy)they did not want.

    3. avatar Jean-Claude says:

      Cops in England are confiscating garden tools as weapons.

      They all live in fear of being stabbed, glassed, or having acid thrown on them.

      The argument that cops in America have more risk is laughable. These VOX clowns are FAKENEWS.

  7. avatar Grace12 says:

    What are the guns in the picture?

    1. avatar Chris. says:

      The shotgun, semi-auto 12 gauge, i’m Guessing Remington 1100.

      Rifle is of course the “dreaded At-15”

      The single black pistol is a Walter Pk380

      The two matched pistols on the right are 1911’s of some brand possibly Colt.

    2. avatar Geoff "Mess with the Bull, get the Horns" PR says:

      They are all semi-automatic.

      That, thanks to a new supreme court justice (hopefully in a few *hours*!) who is non-squishy on gun rights, means we have a very good chance of having semi-autos declared expressly constitutional –

      “Brett Kavanaugh Said Banning Assault Rifles Would Be Like Banning Speech”

      “In Heller, the Supreme Court held that handguns—the vast majority of which today are semi-automatic—are Constitutionally protected because they have not traditionally been banned and are in common use by law-abiding citizens,” he wrote. “There is no meaningful or persuasive constitutional distinction between semiautomatic handguns and semiautomatic rifles.”

      https://www.thedailybeast.com/brett-kavanaugh-thinks-banning-assault-rifles-would-be-like-banning-speech

      1. avatar drunkEODguy says:

        not only is he not squishy on gun rights and strict interpretation of the Constitution, he’s probably got a hell of an axe to grid after the lies, slander, and smear campaign he’s endured to get his seat. I know the dems were hoping to stall this via investigation until mid-terms in hopes of blocking him, but their risk assessment of the long term damage failing to achieve that with this strategy is going to hurt them. Lots.

        1. avatar Benzo says:

          Rush once said “Democrats have no concept of ‘unintended consequences’. They think ‘If we double the tax rate on cigarettes, we’ll collect twice as much money next year!’ One year later, they’ve collected the same amount, doubled size of the black market in cigarettes, and are completely clueless as to why it didn’t work.”

        2. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

          Great anology Benzo.
          Right up there with Seattles tax on ammo.

        3. avatar Geoff "Mess with the Bull, get the Horns" PR says:

          I bet Roberts is the new Kennedy.

          We won’t know until a 2A case is granted or denied cert.

          That’s June, at the end of the term, right?

        4. avatar CZJay says:

          Maybe some more research on him is needed. What does he think about the War on Terror laws and procedures?

  8. avatar Poodle Patrol Leader says:

    Does he include Mexico as a “developed nation”?

  9. avatar Indiana Tom says:

    Actually if you pull out Hispanic and Black crime statistics, American Gun Violence goes down to the level of Finland’s Gun Violence.
    I have noticed that once the Diversity Immigrants of Peace settle in big Gun and Knife Controlled European cities that the crime rate starts skyrocketing to that of some American cities.
    If guns are the problem then rural America should look like ISIS territory and it just does not. Oh, rural white privilege America has violent crimes too scream the Libtards! Yes, but the rates are much lower in the rural white privilege areas than the Diverse Liberal Urban Environment.
    Remember, if you say things people don’t like, you are a racist.

  10. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    I’d like to see the statistical odds of a LEO dying from gunfire vs. auto accidents. I strongly suspect they have far more to fear chasing down speeders than getting in gunfights.

    1. avatar Indiana Tom says:

      The cops have more of a chance getting run over by a semi truck on the Interstate than in a gun battle. From what I have heard from the Indy cops is a lot of their equipment is old and does not work well. Things like guns and cars. One Indy cop got in a gun battle with one of Obama’s sons and his gun was worn out so it jammed. Luckily, the aspiring rapper ran off to get some Skittles and Kool-Aid.

      1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

        I’d venture to guess that America’s cell phone problem is more of a threat than America’s ‘gun problem’.

        1. avatar 16v says:

          Stats are easy to look up BLS who dies at work and how report.

          Hint: being a cop is less dangerous than driving (any) truck for a living, let alone doing construction or fishing. And, yes, of the few cops that die on the job, most are traffic accidents.

        2. avatar B.D. says:

          without a doubt.

          I live in Montana, and there are ZERO laws about driving and talking. It’s fucking dangerous. There are also ZERO yearly safety inspections, and 90% of those idiots on there phone, their vehicle should not even be on the road in the first place.

  11. avatar Khan42 says:

    TTAG you guys are great but just have an evergreen tweet you can constantly repost: “Vox Publishes Disingenuous Anti-Gun Article .”

  12. avatar Chip in Florida says:

    “… That’s in large part because the country’s abundance of guns makes it so easy to carry out gun violence.”

    Since we are speaking in such broad and general terms i find it interesting that you spend so many words on such a tiny problem when viewed statistically.

    Outside of certain areas and away from certain groups, your risk is incredibly tiny, fractions of a fraction of a p percent.

    1. avatar rt66paul says:

      But of course! If someone wants to be violent against guns, they have to be able to find them first. These poor guns hide very well in countries like GB and France because of all the people that want to be violent against them. Save those once dropped guns!

  13. avatar Chris says:

    This is something every inner city kid knows, when you encounter cops you’re one itchy trigger finger away from a hail of bullets. At least if you’re in New York, you know the swarm of bullets will miss you.

    1. avatar former water walker says:

      Just ask LaQuan McDonald…oh wait. Sorry ask former ossifer Jason VanDyke on his way to prison. I don’t agree with a murder rap but damn that drugged out boy only had a knife surrounded by 20 cop’s. “He sceered me”😦

      1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

        That former officers testimony on the stand totally sunk him.
        My opinion, I hope he rots and dies in prison. That was a bad shoot.

      2. avatar el Possum Guapo Standartenfuher " they think we're making pizza's Oberst von Burn says:

        What sceers me is being deaf. I need a shirt that’s printed,”I Can’t Hear You”. The DMV can issue a white background on the DL, but what the hell goods that do if the cops are screaming “DONT MOVE” And I’m reaching for my I Can’t Hear You DL? Guess I’m fucked

        1. avatar CZJay says:

          I need a shirt that’s printed, ”I Can’t Hear You”.

          According to the department, it’s a justified shoot. Back to work he goes to protect and serve. Just make sure you can hear him if you don’t want him to shoot you in the back.

        2. avatar JB says:

          It seems the author has opined that if we had fewer guns then police wouldn’t need to be as concerned when interacting with citizens. I have been advised to assume everyone from grandmother to people with physical challenges may have some type of weapon so I need to be vigilant. Consideration of the number items that can be used as weapons that are owned or sold is not part of the SOP of any department of which I am aware. If someone intends to hurt me it is not clear that I wouldn’t need to be concerned if fewer guns existed.

  14. avatar Qwerty says:

    I visited a postal carrier friend one Monday holiday. I commented about the day off, he immediately replied that the next day they would have twice the mail needing delivery. I mulled this over and concluded, as with law enforcement, THAT’S THE JOB YOU APPLIED FOR. YOU’RE FREE TO QUIT AND FIND ANOTHER!

    1. avatar Leighton Cavendish says:

      Or they could maybe have another carrier fill in…
      and you have NEVER complained at any of your jobs? about anything or anyone? ever?

  15. avatar Huntmaster says:

    America’s abundance of guns is what keeps us safe from abuse from the Government. The only time we have had instances of ethnic cleansing or genocide is when the targeted groups didn’t have equal access to them.

    1. avatar Baldwin says:

      “… safe from abuse from the Government”…Not as safe as we should be. Abuse abounds. But yeah, think how bad it would be if it weren’t for 300+ million and counting.

  16. avatar Casey says:

    Shouldn’t everyone assume that anyone they meet on any occasion for any reason could be carrying a concealed weapon?

    I mean, that just seems like basic survival instinct?

    Don’t they always complain about what happens when a cop meets someone who ISN’T armed and kills them anyway?

    1. avatar GunnyGene says:

      I do. And so do the majority of other people here in MS. And as often as not the weapon is carried openly, loaded and hot. No permit needed in either case. 🙂 But I have yet to hear of anyone other than a thief, jailbird on the loose, or other criminal, shooting at a cop.

  17. avatar Higgs says:

    Here is where the lefts logic fails. Even if they ban guns for law biding citizens the police protocol will stay exactly the same.

    Why? Because criminals will still carry because they don’t obey the law.

    1. avatar Scoutino says:

      Come on, are you suggesting that the banned objects don’t magically disappear on the date the ban starts? Next you’ll say that criminals don’t obey laws. Oh, you did already…

  18. avatar John Clark says:

    An Armed populace is law enforcement best friend! Noway they can do it all without the public’s help

  19. avatar Micah says:

    “Police officers in the United States, in reality, need to be conscious of and are trained to be conscious of the fact that literally every single person they come in contact with may be carrying a concealed firearm.”

    That’s true of police officers of every country everywhere, whether concealed carry is allowed or not.

  20. avatar C.S. says:

    Criminals in the United States, in reality, need to be conscious of…

    1. avatar Chris Mallory says:

      Citizens in the United States turned into “criminals’ by an overreaching and overbearing government. We need both fewer laws and fewer cops.

      1. avatar Frank says:

        No. In fact 90% of murder is committed by prior criminals with a history of violent crime. Not smoking a joint, but beating someone, robbing them with a knife, etc.

        The problem is actual predatory criminals on our streets

  21. avatar Chris Mallory says:

    Then the answer is to start repealing laws so citizens are not being harassed by government employees. A return to a time when the only government most people had contact with was the post office would be a good thing.

    Disarming all cops would be a good step as well. Citizens should be armed, not government employees.

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      Less laws equals less of a need for cops. Less interaction results in less cops and Americans being killed. Creating more of an understanding that oneself must be capable of self preservation, thus possibly leading to more liberty minded people and a closer community.

  22. avatar Chris Mallory says:

    It is a right of the American people to be armed. Government employees carry weapons as a privilege granted them by the citizens. No citizen should be harmed for being armed. The life of a citizen is more important than the life of a government employee.

    1. avatar Leighton Cavendish says:

      Um…government employees are citizens as well…they do not give up that status because of their job…

      1. avatar Morelia1976 says:

        That’s not what my drill sergeant told us. Something about protecting rights, not exercising them.

  23. avatar m says:

    America’s abundance of guns “in the hands of criminals who are almost all demonrats” is dangerous for law enforcement. FIFY, a**hole.

  24. avatar James W Crawford says:

    Just perused the wikipedia page on this shooting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence,_South_Carolina_shooting

    The purport to know that the weapon used was an M-14 rifle. None of their references support this statement, only that he owned an M-14.

    If an M-14 was used, this has interesting political implications. The M-14 is a fully automatic Battle Rifle and therefore controlled as a machinegun. One suspects that this is what Mr Hopkins owned. His boasting on Facebook suggests that it was legally owned and therefore registered with BATF.

    .308 is a hell of a lot more powerfull cartridge than 5.56mm AR-15 ammo.

    1. avatar GunnyGene says:

      The standard issue M-14 was not fully auto. There were a few with a selector, but the vast majority were semi-auto. I carried one VN in 1965-66, and qualified with it for my entire 21 year career in the Marines. You should not believe everything you read on Wiki.

  25. avatar CharlieKing1 says:

    Anecdotally speaking, Mr. Lopez of Vox is full of you know what. I am a retired 30+ year LEO. He’s making BS about something I suspect he knows nothing about, i.e., he didn’t walk a mile in my shoes. I did not fear the armed, law abiding public. I welcomed it. It was the criminal element that worried me. A veteran partner that trained me said there’s a gun present at every call we answered and every home we entered; I foolishly said, really? He said yeah, it’s the one on your hip!

    1. avatar GS650G says:

      Basically the box writer equates gun owners with murderers. In this view disarmament get a rid of murderers.

  26. avatar ColoradoKid says:

    Geez…It’s the criminals who conceal carry that are the problem, not law-abiding POTG! It has always been that way and it will always be that way in the future. Nothing has changed that fact! What has changed is the criminals are starting to realize that their victims might be carrying, that there are people willing to defend themselves and their families. The more concealed carriers there are the better. Anti-gunners will never get it because of sane rational thinking, which they are not capable of.

  27. avatar Ed Schrade says:

    America’s abundance of National Socialist Democrat members is the danger to the entire country.

  28. avatar GS650G says:

    Criminals and cops would prefer a disarmed population for different reasons.

    1. avatar el Possum Guapo Standartenfuher " they think we're making pizza's Oberst von Burn says:

      Yup, most gangs don’t like the other gangs to have weapons

  29. avatar arc says:

    Guns in the hands of good citizens are harmless to bacon unless the bacon are abusing the citizenry and being evil wanabe tyrants.

    Making yourself a shield for good people against the evil people is part of the job description. If you don’t like the job requirements, don’t take it.

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      If you don’t like the job requirements, don’t take it.

      They change the standards/requirements instead.

      Three of the seven cops shot were females. I heard the first three shot were all females, the rest were men trying to save those women. One of those responding men was shot dead trying to make it to the house. Sounds like the females lost all the fight they thought they had once people started to get lit up. A bunch of men in an armored vehicle — made for Iraq and Afghanistan — had to save them.

      I wonder what Black Lives Matter has to say about an old white man shooting and killing a black cop. A they going to protest for justice for the cop? Are they going to riot because the killer was a white male, a lawful gun owner who supports the 2nd amendment and was in the military?

  30. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    Compared to other developed nations, America simply has many more gun deaths than its similar peers. – German Lopez

    And who defines which countries are “developed” and “similar”? Nevertheless, it doesn’t matter.

    Moving on:

    … the country’s abundance of guns makes it so easy to carry out gun violence. – German Lopez

    And that is fantastic when criminals are the ones receiving righteous violence.

  31. avatar dragos111 says:

    I would love to see a count of just how many law enforcement officers have been killed by legal concealed carry folk. The press would have you believe it is like the Wild West with CCL folks going nuts and shooting cops.

    My guess is that a cop would rather run into a legal CCL carrier than a thug on a dark night in August.

    I bet you could replace CCL with NRA and the same statements would be true. The bad people out there are not members of the NRA or legal CCL carriers.

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      The matter isn’t if everyone has a gun. What matters is what those armed people are willing to do with that gun. The assumption from statists is people with guns are willing to stand against the government. For them, this is not okay, this cannot be allowed to exist.

      Communists will cheer for the use of an AK-47 to overthrow the government, but will then collect the guns once the people have done the dirty work for them.

      A cop is afraid of a NRA member as much as he is afraid of a gang member as long as they both have guns especially rifles. The man who shot those 7 cops had a rifle and he was into competitive shooting sports. The cops were more afraid of that man then they were of some side ways shooting thug and his Glock.

  32. avatar Salty Bear says:

    The cops *should* be afraid of us lowly peasants carrying guns. The idea that any or all of us could be armed should make them think long and hard before violating someone’s rights. But does it?

    No. The willingness of Americans to stand up to tyranny and abuse is a thing of the past. Can you imagine what would happen if a regular Joe pulled a gun on a cop who threatened someone for jaywalking, driving without a license, or for some other victimless “crime”? The self-professed freedom-loving American gun culture would crucify that regular Joe.

    Instead we sit in our echo chambers and whine about the Democrats and the leftists and the progressives, while we ourselves can’t even vocally support true liberty.

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      Republicans have been manipulated to love police and military. They have an unhealthy “respect” for authority.

      -Just fall in line and you won’t be harmed.
      -Yes, sir! Right away, sir!

      1. avatar Frank says:

        You have it backwards. Democrats, in study after study, tend to be more statist

        1. avatar Salty Bear says:

          Democrats and Republicans both have their favorite bureaucrats. Republicans love bureaucrats with guns. Democrats love bureaucrats who aren’t straight, white males. But both parties believe that only they and their bureaucrat friends should have guns – the Republicans just pretend like they care about gun rights because it’s about the only thing they’ve got left that gets them any votes.

  33. avatar James J. White says:

    America’s abundance of automobiles is dangerous for Law Enforcement. America’s abundance of tractors is dangerous to farmers. Democrats are dangerous for the Constitution. You could make that argument directed at just about anything

  34. avatar el Possum Guapo Standartenfuher " they think we're making pizza's Oberst von Burn says:

    One thing bothers me is the fact that dogs may be carrying firearms also.

  35. avatar Cops are not our friends says:

    Yeah, as if libturds care about cops. But having said that, citizens are in far more danger from heavily paramilitarized cops every day. Cops are not our friends. Shoot first, cover up afterward is their motto.

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      In reality, cops can never be your friend because their professional is to put you in a cage when they have reason to. You cannot be friends with someone who is required to enforce laws unless they give you the privilege of “selective enforcement.” You can be friendly to law enforcement, but you cannot trust them with your liberty and freedom.

      People make the mistake of thinking law enforcement is on their side. Those are the people who get manipulated by cops into incriminating themselves or giving cops permission to gather evidence without probable cause or warrant. Then they freak out when the handcuffs are applied: “I trusted you! You said I wouldn’t get in trouble if I was honest! You said if I didn’t let you it would be worse for me.”

      1. avatar Ben says:

        I don’t know where you guys live and what kind of crazy experiences you have had…

        We have discretion on certain things, and on certain crimes it’s up to the victim. No victim no crime. If a store owner does not want to press charges for the item you stole, I am fine with it. Now if you punched your wife, if you spit in my face or try to hurt me, or if you are so drunk and reckless you could have killed someone behind the wheel, we are not going to be friends that’s for sure.
        Militarized cops? I don’t see tanks, artillery, air support with Gatling guns and rockets. What is so “military” in LE? The fact we have AR15? Some SWAT units have armored vehicles?

        1. avatar CZJay says:

          A lot of cops try to find reasons to arrest someone regardless of no probable cause, hence the manipulation tactics they use. It’s not uncommon for cops to intimidate and lie to people in order to get them to produce I.D. so they can run them through the system for warrants or document “problematic” Americans. It’s also not uncommon for cops to intimidate someone into giving them consent to search their vehicle or person during a traffic violation stop or at D.U.I. checkpoints. These types of cops do not mind arresting people for victimless crimes; they truly believe they are American patriots.

          Some departments do have full auto firearms, MRAPs, explosives, night and thermal vision, etc. They are allowed to acquire military gear that was used in Iraq and Afghanistan. Some departments can afford equipping and training some of their force to be just as capable (and indistinguishable) as a military unit to do civilian police work. Then there is the mindset they are being conditioned/trained to have that is more concerning than the gear they acquire. Call them militant, militarized or anything you want. What matters is what they are used for because in the past a man with a sword, shield and body armor was considered militarized/a soldier.

          https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/10/03/five-officers-wounded-in-florence-south-carolina-shooting/

    2. avatar Ben says:

      That’s just your opinion. That’s surely not my motto. If I never shoot anyone during my career I am fine with it. I am happy shooting targets at the range.

  36. avatar CZJay says:

    Compared to other developed nations, America simply has many more gun deaths than its similar peers.”

    What constitutes a “developed” nation? Is Mexico and Brazil not developed enough? What if gun restrictions on the people descend a “developed” nation into a third world country or prevents a third world country from becoming a “developed” nation? Do you only care about countries with money or countries with mostly white people? Is that why you put the caveat of “developed?” By “developed” you mean white? Why limit the scope of information, are those nations not filled with people?

  37. avatar Ben says:

    I am a cop, and I don’t have any problem with good folks owning and carrying firearms. Quite the contrary as I never had any bad experience whatsoever, and I know very well bad folks will find ways to get weapons no matter what. You cannot put a ban on black market , and they don’t pass background check when they buy a gun cash in the street.
    I have been in direct contact with armed folks several times, on traffic stops, consensual encounters, and diverse calls for service. The overwhelming majority of gun owners know how to “keep calm and carry on”. This is a non issue for me and most of the LEOs I know.
    I work in a decent town in FL, most people are good people. I never go to work being nervous because John Doe has a conceal carry permit, it’s really not these folks we have to worry about.
    I recently responded to a residential burglary, the home owner stated they heard noises as if someone was trying to get inside, and told dispatch he was armed. After investigating and not finding anything criminal or unusual, the only thing I was upset about is the fact this guy had his family in the house with him, and his firearm was still locked in the safe 15-20 minutes after he had called 911! I forgot to ask him why. We responded in a timely manner but that was still enough time to get your family hurt. Finally, if you are involved in a SD/HD shooting, be careful what you say when cops arrive. Many agencies have microphones and body cams nowadays, and even if you were in your right saying something the wrong way could be useful for the attorney trying to hurt you in Court.

  38. avatar Jim Bullock says:

    So … because there are more guns, police might encounter more guns? — This is my shocked face.

    In the US police don’t ever encounter most guns. Indeed, even when police “encounter” guns held by peaceful, responsible people, nothing happens. These guns are no threat, except perhaps to someone’s fashion sense. It’s literally a “close encounter of the 0th kind.”

    Plenty of places where guns are banned, if there’s a gun, it’s there for bad reasons. In the US, if legal guns were a problem, we’d all be dead.

    So, what’s Vox-spaliner’s problem?

    Vox-voice (but, I repeat myself) is *trying* to say that sometimes police may encounter someone with the means to protect themselves at need … and V is appalled by that; appalled that police have to encounter that.

    That kinda shows you what V-for-victims thinks of you, your agency, and what police are for (Spelling it out — the only ones who can protect you, if they feel like it, or V thinks it’s important. And any friction in the police enforcing their mandate — say from you maybe having a gun — is a sin, a crime, and an affront against bog, man, and Utopia. Any questions?)

    1. avatar GunnyGene says:

      Vox is the voice of simpletons. They (Vox&simpletons) take the default position that all shoots are bad shoots, no matter who does the shooting, who (or what) gets shot, or for what reasons. To them that equates to all guns are bad guns, and therefore all guns should be banned (except for those carried by their private security teams). It’s the epitome of over-generalization, and self-righteous bigotry, combined with a tyrannical lust for supreme and unchallenged power over the lives of all.

  39. avatar Dave Huff says:

    I own 62 weapons, and never has one of them been pointed at a cop!

  40. avatar Chris Morton says:

    Guns are certainly a threat to cops like Drew Peterson and Tony Abbate… as they SHOULD be.

  41. avatar Scoutino says:

    “Police officers in the United States, in reality, need to be conscious of and are trained to be conscious of the fact that literally every single person they come in contact with may be carrying a concealed firearm.”

    Yes, so what? They are saying it as if it was a bad thing.

  42. avatar neiowa says:

    What is to cops? Donuts and autos. (heart attacks and car wrecks)

  43. avatar Greg says:

    It’s us against them. F the blue line!

  44. avatar Hannibal says:

    They’re right. Plenty of officers are killed every year by the felonious use of firearms. Police would have an easier job if they were the only ones with guns.

    Of course, police would also have an easier time if they didn’t need a warrant to search people or homes. Police would have an easier time if there was no such thing as a right to remain silent. Laws against excessive bail. Etc, etc, etc. That pesky Constitution. Somehow I think Vox doesn’t care about making the jobs of police safer and easier except when it happens to fit nicely within their worldview

  45. avatar Adam says:

    Any police officer that is saying or thinking that they need to be above the law and stifle the rights of the citizens to “keep them safe” need to get a new job. They are babies.

    Garbage men are three times more likely to die on the job than cops and police work isn’t even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs in America. We don’t give garbage men carte blanche to break all traffic laws in order to keep themselves as safe as possible and in no way should be excuse police officers when they are literally murdering people to keep themselves “safe”.

    If police officers can not handle the risks of the job then they need to get another job. We as Americans don’t want offic need people that live in fear and are a risk to everyone’s safety wearing a “get out of jail free” badge.

  46. avatar Parnell says:

    “’Police officers in the United States, in reality, need to be conscious of and are trained to be conscious of the fact that literally every single person they come in contact with may be carrying a concealed firearm. That’s something new? My late NYPD father always said he treated every situation as a potential armed conflict until determining otherwise.

  47. avatar Ark says:

    Vox cares about police lives now?

  48. avatar bryan1980 says:

    “Police officers in the United States, in reality, need to be conscious of and are trained to be conscious of the fact that literally every single person they come in contact with may be carrying a concealed firearm.”

    They are, moron, but we’re not the people they’re worried about. It’s mostly left-wing nutjobs like, I don’t know, the people who read Vox, that carry out violence against police officers.

  49. avatar Zundfolge says:

    So Vox is upset that America’s abundance of guns is dangerous for law enforcement? The same law enforcement that Vox claims is nothing but a bunch of murderous racist fascists?

    So that means that Vox wants to protect murderous racist fascists.

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