Federal Agencies Losing Hundreds of Guns, Untold Amounts of Ammo…Again, Still

feds cops lost stolen missing guns firearms unaccounted for

courtesy mercurynews.com

If we didn’t know better, we’d think that certain branches of the US Government were secretly trying to undermine gun controllers’ arguments about who is and who isn’t sufficiently qualified to own firearms.

You’ve heard the gun-grabbers bray it thousands of times: only police and the military are qualified to wield guns. The average citizen can’t possibly train enough or be trusted to take the proper precautions when storing and carrying their firearms.

Then along comes yet another inspector general report and blows that talking point all to hell.

You know the situation has to be bad when the Washington Post runs something like this:

No matter how hard he tries, Uncle Sam can’t stop his cops from losing track of their guns and ammunition.

The U.S. Marshals Service (USMS) provides the latest example of a recurring problem that has long vexed federal law enforcement.

A new report by the Justice Department’s inspector general “identified significant deficiencies related to tracking weapons, ammunition and less lethal munitions, as well as noncompliance with ammunition policy requirements.”

How big a problem is it? Well . . .

The inspector general in Department of Homeland Security reported in 2010 on carelessness with weapons over a two-year period. That report said almost 300 shotguns, pistols and M4 rifles were lost from fiscal 2006 to 2008, mostly because “officers did not properly secure them.”

Oopsie!

In April, we wrote about another (DOJ Inspector General Michael) Horowitz report on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which like the Marshals Service basically has good weapons controls. Nonetheless, ATF had “26 instances of lost, stolen, or missing firearms,” including one that was later used in a crime, between fiscal 2014 and 2017. That report referred to other studies from as early as 2002 about “control weaknesses over [ATF] ammunition inventories.”

D’oh!

DHS was the subject of another audit a year ago over its loss of 228 firearms, 1,889 badges and 25 secure immigration stamps from fiscal 2014 through 2016.

Isn’t DHS in charge of the same people who man those airport security theater checkpoints? Yes, yes they are.

But it’s no biggie. The guns are paid by Mr. and Mrs. Taxpayer and only a few hundred, maybe a thousand or so go walkies every year. That’s out of the tens of thousands that Uncle Sam owns. And fortunately, these missing guns are never used in actual crimes or anything.

Oh. Wait.

And don’t think this is limited to the feds either. The problem at the state and local level is as big or bigger than the feds’ f-ups.

Maybe Washington State should consider making Feds there comply with the same safe storage laws that regular, law-abiding citizens will be forced to follow if I-1639 passes on the November ballot. If it saves just one life . . .

 

comments

  1. avatar Greg says:

    I guess some agents must have a nice collection. Wouldn’t surprise me if a few were in house thefts.

    1. avatar Michael Buley says:

      lol … I think we can rest assured that a lot of those guns were ‘lost’ in transit to new home bases. The old fox guarding the henhouse.

  2. avatar m. says:

    no penalties being assessed? i’m shocked, shocked i tell you!

    1. avatar Michael Buley says:

      I, too, am shocked … OUR government? No …

      1. avatar Pawl from Florida says:

        A few years ago an ATF agent and a sheriff detective came to my home concerning a pistol that I had traded in. They wanted the receipt of the transaction so that he could make a copy of it. The agent told me that a local cop bought the gun and later sold it to a convicted felon . There was never any story in the press about it so obviously the cop got away with it.

  3. avatar Bierce Ambrose says:

    Lost in Mexico?

  4. avatar former water walker says:

    Hey is there an IQ ceiling to work in the gubmint?!? Like for cops?!? Just asking…😄😎😏

    1. avatar adverse5 says:

      If you were fired from running an elevator because you couldn’t learn the route, you could get a job as a gun toting guvment agent.

      1. avatar Matt says:

        LMAO. Might I use your comment.

  5. avatar TomC says:

    In the military, if a weapon comes up missing (other than in actual combat) that is a BIG deal — starting with a total lockdown of the entire installation where the weapon was lost. The result is that almost every military weapon that is “lost” gets recovered in a matter of hours.

    But in some federal agencies the response to a “lost” weapon seems to be closer to ‘OK, Go get another one from the arms room.’

    SOME of those “lost” weapons were taken from agents killed in the line of duty or disarmed by criminals, but most of the ones we hear about seem to have been stolen after being left in the agent’s or officer’s car. Of course there are also the guns simply left behind in public rest rooms – which we hear about only when they are found and turned in by some law-abiding citizen — I have to wonder how many more we don’t hear about because they were found and not returned.

    1. avatar anonymoose says:

      If I found I Glock foty in the crapper, I’d keep it.

    2. avatar neiowa says:

      SOME of those “lost” weapons were taken from agents killed in the line of duty Those are called “unicorns”.

  6. avatar Mark N. says:

    Thefts from trunks of cars in San Francisco is apparently quite common at buildings where officers–yes, including federal officers–are required to disarm before entering. the thieves obviously has it figured out, and targets the appropriate vehicles. I think they had to pass an ordinance requiring secure storage in car trunks to try to lessen the impact. Or they could just eliminate the gun free zone—or would that be too easy?

  7. avatar Jon in CO says:

    I’d like to find a MP7 from an Arsenal in my house one day. Maybe a P90 from secret service.

  8. avatar CZJay says:

    No alarms or cameras. Hmm…

  9. avatar Excedrine says:

    BuT OnlY tHe goVeRnmEnT SHoUld hAvE gUnz1!1!!!1!1!!

    One would assume that the state would make sure its agents would live by the rules it wishes to impose on all of its subjects. But, that would just make entirely too much sense. One set of rules for me, and another for thee.

  10. avatar Bob Jones says:

    Back during British Empire days, guns were frequently chained to civil authorities and military to prevent their being stolen or lost. Maybe we should be doing something similar.

    1. avatar anonymoose says:

      Lanyards and slings…lanyards and slings everywhere…

  11. avatar J says:

    I wonder if when they say “assault weapons” they mean actual select-fire weapons or just semi-auto ARs. Also the report mentions Derringers missing, what department issues Derringers??

    1. avatar Red in CO says:

      I’d guess that whoever wrote the report is an idiot who thinks “derringer” just means any small handgun. Plenty of PDs issue subcompacts as BUGs

      1. avatar J Gibbons says:

        I pity any officer carrying a Derringer as a BUG. I hope he or she is really spot on with those two shots.

  12. avatar Craig in IA says:

    I always figured a lot of the massive amount of .40 cal and 5.56 the various Fed LE agencies stockpiled during the obama admin (even USDA and Education Depts) would eventually find its way back onto the civilian market since there was no way the various agancies would either allow that much training of its officers or use the ammo fighting “crime”. I also suppose that there’s a chance a portion of it fell into the hands of obama’s proposed civilian force needed to counteract the standing LE forces he bragged we needed when he was first elected. It might be good to keep an eye on where all these guns in the hands of the inner city ganstas come from, it might make Fast and Furious pale in comparison…

    1. avatar Me says:

      I work for ICE and we train quite frequently. 8-10 range days a year and we use a lot of ammo each trip.

      1. avatar Joesmith says:

        That’s not a lot of training. I go 2-3 times a week and shoot between 500 -1000 rounds each time, handgun and rifle.

        1. avatar G. Gordan says:

          You must be what we refer to as,… retired.

    2. avatar G. Gordan says:

      What in the hell are you talking about? Are we still rehashing this stale old conspiracy theory from almost 10 years ago about Obama stockpiling .40 cal, sheesh give it a rest already.

  13. avatar ANON says:

    You will NEVER see a report from DOD……..WONDER WHY?

    1. avatar Craig in IA says:

      I don’t see this as an issue for the DOD. DOJ, perhaps. Unless I’ve missed something, I believe most of the firearms in question here are from various gov’t LE ops, not the military.

  14. avatar GS650G says:

    DHS badges are easily disabled and flagged. Guns are another matter.

  15. avatar anarchyst says:

    Let’s face it…most bureaucrats and other federal government employees see firearms as “a necessary nuisance” being required to carry them as part of their jobs–nothing more. That is the reason for the nonchalance that these federal “guardians” show when their firearms are lost or stolen. They will merely be issued a replacement…

  16. avatar Rocketman says:

    I wonder if some of the aforementioned law enforcement officers might just conceivably be selling those “stolen” guns “under the table” in order to supplement their pathetic incomes which are probably only about twice what everyone who isn’t a fed makes in a year.

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      Don’t big city cops get $70,000-100,000 a year plus benefits? Also, a retirement pension after 10 years served and a lifetime CCW?

  17. avatar Ralph says:

    “Federal Agencies Losing Hundreds of Guns, Untold Amounts of Ammo”

    Good. They don’t deserve them anyway.

  18. avatar Chris T from KY says:

    Government civilians (the ruling class) are different from military personnel. Government civilians are never fired, prosecuted or set to jail for losing a weapon or sensitive item.

    Military personnel on the other hand have seen other personnel charged and punished all the time for losing a gun.

    Ordinary civilians if they fail to report a missing firearm can be charged.

    Amazing how liberal gun owners have so much faith in the government.

  19. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    I’m so surprised by our feral governments lack of competency,Not.

  20. avatar Southern Cross says:

    Who watches the watchmen?

    Perhaps they need a level of accountability with their issued firearms. Certainly on the same level as us mere CIVILIANS have to endure.

  21. avatar Joseph says:

    Ads are over the damn top. And having this idiot in the Kel Tac ad staring at you while attempting to read an article is annoying as hell. The page looks like a cheap porn site.

  22. avatar little horn says:

    too bad they are NOT being stolen or lost. they are being sold by their employees.

  23. avatar G. Gordan says:

    This is a non-story, just used to stoke the thinly veiled cop hate that exists on this site. Enforced securing and accounting for of firearms isn’t important, in fact it’s down right un-American, isn’t that what most of you here believe? The majority of guns used in crime were once legally owned by an average Joe six pack non-leo American dip stick that failed to secure it, were straw purchased or were flat out sold by one of the 10% of FFL’s that is knowingly criminal. Everyone here thinks it’s an absolute right to be able to sell a gun in an alley for a case of beer to a tweaker covered in blood and your concerned about some infinitesimal number of guns that were mostly stolen out of personally owned vehicles while off duty, which could happen to anyone of you and probably has? Bullshit you are, your just leo / government worker bigots.

    1. avatar Excedrine says:

      Nice Strawman you got there. Would be a shame if someone were to light it. First off, had you actually ever followed this blog for any length of time at all, and you quite obviously haven’t so don’t sit there and try to LIE to me by saying you have, you’d know the actual position generally held in regards to mandatory safe storage laws. They’re useless, unenforceable, privacy-destroying drivel — and not at all even remotely analogous to state agents “losing” their gats. The majority of crime guns were actually unlawfully acquired, and whether or not they were lawfully owned beforehand is irrelevant. Everyone here actually knows, wholly unlike you who willfully doesn’t know jack shit about jack shit, that it IS an absolute right to dispose of one’s property as they see fit so long as no one else is hurt in the process. Even you would know by now that any sane person (i.e. us and not you) would look at a blood-covered crackhead and think better of it, but you quite clearly lack the common sense that the rest of us have. That’s pretty much par for the course, though. So, no, bullshit you are, you’re just a know-nothing little boot-licker who actively refuses to tell the difference between legitimate criticism of a government agents’ malfeasance and actual bigotry toward the same. What’s the matter? Don’t like your idols being held to the standard actually befitting enforcers of the law? Cry for us some more, snowflake. We fucking RELISH your salty, salty tears.

      1. avatar G. Gordan says:

        “They’re useless, unenforceable, privacy-destroying drivel”

        So you guys don’t believe in mandatory securing of fire-arms, which is what I said! Notice you didn’t deny that securely storing firearms at home or in one’s car when not needed is a good idea, because of course plainly it is. BY needed I would include when one is at home and may need unhindered access for self defense.

        “The majority of crime guns were actually unlawfully acquired, and whether or not they were lawfully owned beforehand is irrelevant.”

        Whether or not they were securely stored is of course relavent, they weren’t! Thats how they fell in to the hands of criminals. That is caused 99.9 percent by non-leo average joe lawful firearm owners, meaning you guys here. If your “lawful” owners then why wouldn’t you obey safe storage laws, why would they be useless? You actively resit measures that would at least impose some small measure of accountability on you, but you complain about stories that demonstaate that LE agencys actually do infact hold themselves accountable for stolen/lost firearms, it just isn’t enough for you. You demand more accountability for us and none for youself, theres a word for that.

        “Everyone here actually knows, wholly unlike you who willfully doesn’t know jack shit about jack shit, that it IS an absolute right to dispose of one’s property as they see fit so long as no one else is hurt in the process.”

        Yeah but other innocent people do get hurt and killed, everyday. That’s why it’s not an absolute right

        “Even you would know by now that any sane person (i.e. us and not you) would look at a blood-covered crackhead and think better of it”

        That’s a giant assumtion, and I can tell you from significant personal experiance that it is wrong. You clearly havn’t met a broad enough cross section of American society. Obviously “tweaker covered in blood” is exageration for the sake of argument. How would you know if the person buying your gun in a private transaction is a criminal? You wouldn’t!!! Thats the point!!! But you don’t care. There fore you wouldn’t and don’t think better of it, you already havn’t thought better of it, you’ve done it.

        You come from the school of thought of “say it with gusto and people will believe it” even if you you’ve effectively countered no argument what so ever hugh?
        Your’e not nearly as good at it as you think you are.

        1. avatar Excedrine says:

          Unless and until you can actually find evidence that so-called “safe storage” laws work, which you can’t because none exists, don’t even bother continuing to pull on that string. Instead, try the other one: it’s got bells on it. Unless you want to keep making a complete ass of yourself for all the world to see. This being the case, by all means, keep going. Also notice that nobody would deny that secure storage of gats and ammunition is a bad idea. That is real common sense. Having the state mandate it is not, and for a plethora of reasons already previous explained on several posts on this blog.

          “The majority of crime guns were actually unlawfully acquired, and whether or not they were lawfully owned beforehand is irrelevant.”

          Whether or not they were securely stored is of course irrelevant, you mean. They can be stolen out of safes for all you know, which you don’t. Naturally. Unless and until you can actually provide data as to whether these stolen guns were secured before being pilfered, which again you can’t because none exists, don’t even bother pulling on that string, either. Instead, try the other one: it’s got bells on it. That is unless you want to continue making a complete ass of yourself for all the world to see. That obviously being the case by now, by all means, keep going. Plus, it’s not the fault of the victim for being burglarized in the first place. No, the blame for that actually rests on the criminal. But, we all know that you and your ilk are all about victim-blaming. ;]

          Innocent people would still get hurt and killed, even if guns were never invented to begin with, at the exact same rate regardless of the means being used. But, yes, it is an absolute right to dispose of one’s property as they see fit so long as no danger is posed to others in the process. Unless and until you can actually cite compelling case law to the contrary, or even form a coherent logical argument to that effect (which you’re intellectually incapable of doing by the way), don’t bother pulling on that string, either. The other ones has bells on it, at least. But, naturally, you’re really about making a fool of yourself and your fellow boot-licking sycophants for the world to see and laugh at.

          Speaking of assumptions, that’s literally all you’ve done and brought to the table: assumptions. Unprovable and unsupportable assumptions, at that. Your alleged “personal experience” is anecdotal and not evidence. The plural of anecdote is not evidence, either. You clearly haven’t met even a broad enough cross-section of your own neighborhood, much less of America. How would you someone buying a gun in a private transaction isn’t a criminal. Clearly innocent-until-proven guilty means nothing to you. Oh, and we would be able to deduce that had Dumbass-o-KKKrats not summarily shot down Senator Tom Coburn’s idea to open up the NICS to the general public with their incessant shrieking. The very same Dumbass-o-KKKrats that you’d probably vote for. Oops. Guess that slipped under your radar, too. But, you don’t care. Therefore, you don’t, wouldn’t, and haven’t thought better of it, and you’ve probably already done it yourself.

          You come from the “sk00l” of “thought” which says, “Project enough ill onto your enemies and everyone else will believe it.” That’s in spite of the fact that you’re literally incapable of supporting any (non)arguments you try (and spectacularly fail) to make yourself.

          You’re not only not good at it all, you don’t even come close to being able to argue with any of us at all.

          Cry some more, snowflake.

        2. avatar G. Gordan says:

          “Whether or not they were securely stored is of course irrelevant, you mean. They can be stolen out of safes for all you know, which you don’t. Naturally. Unless and until you can actually provide data as to whether these stolen guns were secured before being pilfered, which again you can’t because none exists”

          I’m not gonna spoon feed you but if you’re actually interested consult the DOJ Bureau of Justice Statistics National Crime Victimization Survey. No nothing about safes, but thats were human inductive reasoning without which we would have nothing comes in. You probably don’t consider stats compiled by the FEDS to be honest, in which case there is no authority to be appealed to that will convince you. You have your illogical self serving gut feelings and you are your own expert.

          Do you lock your house and car when you leave them? Do you have a home security system? Do you know what the likelihood of a home being burglarized is that has
          a home security system versus one that doesn’t? Answer: Much lower. Do you know what percentage of vehicle burgs involve significant use of tools, cutting, prying or otherwise? Answer: nearly none. Do you know what percentage of residential burgs involve significant use of cutting or prying tools? Answer: only slightly more than vehicle. Think about the logical inferences that can be drawn from these questions then imagine putting a giant steel box around your home or car. Too expensive, impractical you say? Ok. What to do? What to do? If only someone could create a much smaller steel box that could be placed around only smaller items in which one could consolidate just there most important personal possessions? Damn if only!!!??

          “Innocent people would still get hurt and killed, even if guns were never invented to begin with, at the exact same rate regardless of the means being used.”

          Bwhahahhah. Absurd!!! You cant really believe that. Then why do you care if cops or anyone else lose guns or have them stolen? Shit I guess maybe you don’t.

          “How would you (know) someone buying a gun in a private transaction isn’t a criminal.”

          I can’t it’s private. Again, my point!!! A combined sate federal back ground check will tell me if theyre a criminal that has been caught. That’s better than nothing.

          “yes, it is an absolute right to dispose of one’s property as they see fit so long as no danger is posed to others in the process. Unless and until you can actually cite compelling case law to the contrary, or even form a coherent logical argument to that effect (which you’re intellectually incapable of doing by the way), don’t bother pulling on that string, either.”

          In your state, perhaps. In at least 11 other states it is not. The constitutionality of these states laws has not been challenged, might they some day be successfully challenged in scoutus? Yes perhaps. But if not and such laws are federally constituional in those states, then similar laws in your state would be too, it’s just a question of whether or not your state ever implaments them. This is aside from all the numerous local, state and federal laws that regulate what you can and can’t due with myriad types of propriety other than firearms from cleansers to cattle. Your’e wrong! You imagine you live in a libertarian fanatasy, you don’t!

    2. avatar Scoutino says:

      Here we go again with the “10% of FFLs are bad apples knowingly selling guns to criminals” lie. The ATF would revoke their licenses in a New York minute if they did.

      1. avatar G. Gordan says:

        They do! Not only that they put them in Federal prison. When your neighbor running a garage business suddenly disappears? That’s them. It’s like any other type of enforcement, incomplete and continuous. This is confusing some how?

        1. avatar Excedrine says:

          They don’t, actually, because it’s not nearly even remotely close to the demonstrably mythical “10%” that you gun-grabbing lunatics like to claim it is. Unless and until you can actually cite hard data that proves it, which you can’t because it doesn’t exist, stop peddling propaganda to people who very clearly know better than you do.

  24. avatar Excedrine says:

    @G. Gordan — Since TTAG apparently won’t let my reply to you directly, I’m going to post this down here.

    You’re in no position whatsoever to “spoon feed” anyone anything except the usual, tired, and thoroughly debunked gun-grabber bullshit. If you actually possessed inductive reasoning in the first place, which you very clearly don’t, you’d realize that the data set is incomplete and does not at all allow you to support any such assertions with it. You quite obviously don’t consider statistics at all yourself, nor are YOU honest in trying (and singularly failing) to bolster your long-defunct and repeatedly-falsified talking points. Now that you’ve admitted that you rely on Appeal To Authority fallacies, you can’t claim to have anything other than illogical, self-serving gut feelings and your own thinking that you’re your own expert. Not the other way around.

    Whether or not one’s property is secured is, again, irrelevant. The owner is not at fault for it being stolen. I would again rightly dictate that you stop blaming the victim, but apparently you barely even understand English. Let alone that very, very basic concept. Oh, and the only practical way of actually lowering the odds of having your home burglarized is living in an area where it’s uncommon in the first place. Neither do you bother citing any data expressing the alleged effectiveness of home security systems, because providing clear evidence is not your MO. Not that it surprises anybody here.

    Given that it’s actually true that homicide rates (and violent crime in general for that matter) are completely independent of the means available to criminals, that is the only logical conclusion. You, however, either willfully fail to or are intellectually incapable of adopting an evidence-based view of reality. It is also only logical that one be concerned about gats being stolen or “lost” by people whose profession it is to carry them for a living, especially if they’re going to do so while out in public enforcing the laws passed by a duly-elected government body. They are rightly held to a higher standard in that regard than the rest of us, and to argue otherwise only betrays your sycophantic idol worship of people exactly no better than you or I. But, I guess you don’t care about that yourself.

    So, you’re again supporting my point that you clearly don’t give two shits about presumption of innocence, professional standards of conduct, or evidence-based argumentation. You also like to blame crime victims. Par for the course for trolls like you.

    The right to sell one’s property is actually a right in all 50 states. You continue to refuse to put any effort at all into disproving this — or anything else I’ve said, for that matter. You might imagine that we live in an authoritarian police state heralded by your idols, but we don’t. You’re wrong, you know you’re wrong, and there’s less than absolutely nothing that you or any other soyboy crybaby can think, say, or do to change that.

    Keep crying, snowflake. You’ll be filling every salt shaker in America by Monday at this rate.

    1. avatar G. Gordan says:

      Is propriety that is protected by physical and or electronic barriers and or measures designed to deter theft less likely to be stolen? Yes or no?

      1. avatar Excedrine says:

        I’ve already rightly and correctly dictated to you that that’s completely irrelevant, and to stop blaming burglary victims. There is nothing more to add to it, so stop trying. It’s never, ever going to happen, no matter how hard or how many times you try.

        1. avatar G. Gordan says:

          The crux of this debate is that you take umbrage to the fact that a small percentage of firearms issued to federal leo’s go missing due to negligence or theft. What preventative measures / policy’s do you think could be adopted by LE agency’s in order to mitigate the number of firearms that there employees lose or have stolen from them?

  25. avatar Ghost says:

    If the Feds really want to know where all the missing guns & ammo is located …Call Eric Holder

  26. avatar Bruce Clark says:

    I wish they’d lose a select-fire M-4 on my property. I’d find it for them if you know what I mean?

  27. avatar David Martin says:

    Abolish the ATF and transfer those agents to ICE and Border Patrol.

    http://www.atfsearchwarrantexposed.com

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