Caliber Matters, Google Tightens and Liberals With Guns – TTAG Daily Digest

Guns Kill People Caliber Lethality

courtesy northeastern.edu

New study on firearm caliber questions the notion that ‘guns don’t kill people’

They found that bigger bullets are deadlier than smaller ones? No way! . . .

“Our study gets to the heart of the notion that ‘guns don’t kill people; people kill people,’” said Anthony Braga, a Distinguished Professor of Criminal Justice at Northeastern. “That slogan is based on the contention that gun control is ineffective because if a person wants to kill someone, they will find a way to do it, no matter what types of weapons are available.”

The study, which was published in JAMA Network Open, concludes that it is incorrect to dismiss firepower as a factor in shooting fatalities. The authors do not propose any specific gun control measures and acknowledge that both the intent of the shooter and chance also play a role in whether the victim lives or dies.

But the study shows that gun caliber is also a significant factor in survival rates, according to co-author Philip Cook, professor emeritus at the Sanford School of Public Policy at Duke University.

“People who oppose gun control are not convinced that the type of weapon matters,” he said. “We are not saying caliber is more important than intent. What we show, very specifically, is that if you decrease the caliber of the guns, the number of deaths would drop by 40 percent.”

Google Play Firearm Sales App

courtesy 9to5google.com

Google Play’s developer policy updated to ban crypto mining, firearm sales apps, and more

Another brick in the wall . . .

Another notable change here is to ban applications which promote the sale, manufacturing, or modification of firearms, explosives, and ammunition.

We don’t allow apps that facilitate the sale of explosives, firearms, ammunition, or certain firearms accessories.

  • Restricted accessories include those that enable a firearm to simulate automatic fire or convert a firearm to automatic fire (e.g. bump stocks, gatling triggers, drop-in auto sears, conversion kits), and magazines or belts carrying more than 30 rounds.

We don’t allow apps that provide instructions for the manufacture of explosives, firearms, ammunition, restricted firearm accessories, or other weapons. This includes instructions on how to convert a firearm to automatic, or simulated automatic, firing capabilities.

Judge Brett Kavanaugh Supreme Court Nominee Confirmation Guns Second Amendment

courtesy apnews.com

No mystery to Supreme Court nominee Kavanaugh’s gun views

Nope…and that’s a definite plus . . .

Phil Mendelson, a Democrat and chairman of the D.C. Council, said Kavanaugh’s dissent made clear that “his views on gun control are on the extreme side.” Councilmember Mary M. Cheh, a Democrat and professor of constitutional law at George Washington University, said she’s “worried about the shift to the right, for sure.”

Some legal experts believe Kavanaugh’s confirmation make it more likely the court will hear another potentially groundbreaking Second Amendment case. Only four of nine justices need to vote in favor of reviewing a case.

UCLA law school professor Adam Winkler, author of “Gunfight: The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America,” said Kavanaugh could become that crucial fourth vote because three justices — Neil Gorsuch, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito Jr. — all have voiced support for the court to take on Second Amendment cases.

The Bold Type Shotgun Entertainment Television Hypocrisy Gun Control

courtesy bustle.com

BOZELL & GRAHAM: Hollywood Hypocrisy On Guns

If they didn’t have double standards, they wouldn’t have any at all . . .

In this fictional scenario, the “conversation” helped millennial shotgun owner Sutton realize how “you define yourself in a certain way … And then you get older and you’ve outgrown (guns) but you’re not quite ready to let them go,” as Lasher explains. “We wanted to make a story about that and finding that you don’t need something else to make you feel strong or brave or powerful or in control.”

Hypocrisy, call your office. If Lasher and her Moms Demand Action crowd ardently wish to “reduce the gun culture in America,” why not do a bit of introspection first? You can crawl all over the group website and its list of “campaigns” and not find a word about activism against the entertainment industry — TV, movies, video games, anything.

Liberals With Guns Tennessee Safety On

courtesy johnsoncitypress.com

Liberals with guns: Local Democrats hold marksmanship competition

‘Liberals with guns’…is that like fish with bicycles or Chuck Norris with a latte? . . .

Considering much of the recent rhetoric surrounding gun control — an issue of contention between most liberals and conservatives — some may be surprised to find members of the Washington County (Tennessee) Democratic Party hosting their own marksmanship competition.

Founded by party executive committee member and 2016 7th House District candidate Mike Morgan, Safety On! is a gun and shooting club focusing on firearm safety and “responsible ownership.”

The group, which Morgan said seeks “sensible gun legislation while protecting the Second Amendment,” held its first marksmanship competition Wednesday night at the Scioto Shooting Range in Unicoi after forming in June.

“Our current membership is a little over 1,000 people, largely from the Tri-Cities area, although we have members from all across the globe,” Morgan said before the event. “There are a little over 800 members from the United States, and over 200 from outside of the U.S.”

 

comments

  1. avatar surlycmd says:

    Finally! The debate is over. 45 ACP for the win!

    Bwahahahahahahaha!

    Couldn’t help myself after reading that bit about calibers.

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      Touche,as we have only spent twenty or more years debating it.

      1. avatar Jeff in CO says:

        Whatever . . . I use 46mm Creedmoor, a “real man’s” gun . . .

        😉

        1. avatar BOB PRICE says:

          This is so non common sense…they need reporters who actually know their guns, but that wont happen. Nice pic of gun club members with what looks like an air gun.

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          They’re trying to force us all back to the .9mm!

    2. avatar Rad Man says:

      Old, fat, short, and slow – still getting the job done!

    3. avatar Adam says:

      Wrong, if a progressive Northeast professor says .45 is the most dangerous that actually means it is the worst because nothing progressive say about guns is correct.

      This is a huge win for 9mm! 😀

      1. avatar Phased Plasma Fart in the 40Watt Range says:

        Don’t you mean .9mm caliber?

    4. avatar Drake_Burrwood says:

      Wait.. are you telling me the .45 longcolt loses? To the .45 acp?
      +++XB;=3~<

    5. avatar frank speak says:

      they never stop trying…more nonsense from the left….

    6. avatar Joel says:

      I decided to actually read the article. The calibers were broken into three groups.

      Small were up to .32 acp
      Medium cal included .38/.380/9mm
      Large cal in the study had the usual contenders. .357/.44mag/.45acp/.40/etc. it also included 7.62×39 ‘handguns’… me thinks the data may be skewed….

      1. avatar Astigmatizm says:

        Also, the report also said that people that are “looking to kill” will purchase larger caliber pistols. I would submit that if someone is “looking to kill” they aren’t buying they are stealing larger caliber guns.

  2. avatar pwrserge says:

    The caliber study is complete bullshit. All they’ve proven is that rifles are deadlier than pistols. Why? They included 7.62×39 in their “large caliber” category. Everything else is a pistol round.

    1. avatar SouthAl says:

      At best that is all they have proven about caliber.

      They also grouped 9mm as a medium caliber and .40 as a large caliber, and everyone knows that with modern advances in bullet design, there is no difference between the effectiveness of the two. In fact due to less snappiness, 9mm can put bullets on target better. /sarc off

      Seriously though, talk about biased presentation of research (at least in the linked article), no mention of the most glaring difference in the data, race. Talk about pushing an agenda; more concerned with caliber differences than black lives.

      Going even farther, one could argue that the caliber effect observed may not hold for races other than black, or for indoor shootings, since the vast majority of victims in the sample were black and the vast majority of the shootings in the sample occurred outdoors. What a fine example of agenda driven drivel.

    2. avatar Rob says:

      The 7.62×39 is week actually in all knowledgeable circles. It is 30-30 power roughly.. This article is laughable. Terminal power is more about placement, a person can be killed with a high power pellet gun if the round is placed well. Bottom line the gun is an inanimate object that requires an actuater period! No gun on Earth ever will kill without human error or one pointing and shooting.

      1. avatar Doug says:

        So are you the expert?

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Some things are really obvious, all you need is some common sense! You’d agree with that, right?

    3. avatar whoopie says:

      It’s a relief to know that if I get shot with a 5.56mm I’ll be 40% less dead than if I’d been shot with a .45

      1. avatar Bob999 says:

        Yep, that sums up their “study.”

  3. avatar No one of consequence says:

    “People who oppose gun control are not convinced that the type of weapon matters,”

    …probably because it doesn’t.

    1. avatar MAGA says:

      In the immortal words of Archie Bunker, when talking to Meathead on the issue, “Would you feel better if they were pushed out a window?”

    2. avatar Phil Wilson says:

      People who oppose gun control generally know that caliber and type of weapon matters; that’s not what “guns don’t kill people” means. That’s a straw man (and a pretty obvious one at that).

  4. avatar New Continental Army says:

    They’re gonna shit a brick when they see how much bigger a 30-06 is compared to a scary evil 5.56.

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      A giant industrial sized brick !

    2. avatar Ingenero says:

      Heck, I was reminded of the panic over the 5.7×28 cartridge…small caliber, but seems darn effective for what it’s intended. The Secret Service use it, so it must be good for something. They restrict caliber, someone’s gonna just put more powder behind it and make a better bullet…or something exotic that will freak them out more.

      And someone will notice that you can’t really kill deer, elk, bear, etc ethically without bigger rounds. You can let them bleed to death in agony, but to make sure it’s quick and clean, you need something big. Handgun and rifle. Not much you can do to change that equation. The libs always claim they want to leave hunting alone…maybe this will finally put the lie to that bon mot.

    3. avatar Rad Man says:

      I don’t know what’s worse, a high capacity full semiauto in 5.56 or a scoped high power sniper rifle weapon in 30-06.

  5. avatar Indiana Tom says:

    The group, which Morgan said seeks “sensible gun legislation while protecting the Second Amendment,”
    Contradiction in terms.
    ‘Liberals with guns’
    Only if the government has them.

    1. avatar DaveL says:

      The funny thing about the Left’s virtue-signalling, self-flagellating gun owners is the regulatory with which they violate the law. Whether it’s buying a gun for the express purpose of turning it in (thereby lying on form 4473) or turning their AR into an illegal SBR, they are the result of what happens when liars believe their own propaganda. Surprise! There are already all kinds of laws regulating guns.

    2. avatar Adam says:

      Thankfully it is TN where liberals stand zero chance of ever winning overall elections. Not only is the state solid red, they also have a state constitutional ban on an income tax so progressives don’t want to move there as they can’t institute their tax and spend mentality as tax increases = every has to pay via a flat sales tax.

      Turns out most people don’t like taxes when they have to personally pay for them so progressiveness is a dead issue in TN. Wish more red states would ban income taxes, would keep liberals from moving from their crap states to red ones and spreading their cancer.

      1. avatar Rebel Dunn says:

        Not to mention, most Democrats in Tennessee are decidedly less liberal than say, New York or LA.. There are some liberal cities in the state ( the four big cities) .

      2. avatar MA says:

        “Thankfully it is TN where liberals stand zero chance of ever winning overall elections” Unfortunately, this isn’t true. I live here, actually in Washington County. Even after we recently “turned red” and voted for Bush, we elected a very popular democrat governor. Said governor has a very good chance of winning Corker’s Senate seat.

        As for the income tax situation, yes it’s a great idea. As soon as a new tax is created, lawmakers will always go back to that for more money when they need it. The crazy democrats here actually put it on the ballet a couple of years ago to change that “just in case we ever need more money”. They tried to add the option for an income tax and we have a budget surplus! Why would anyone think that’s a good idea?!

  6. avatar Southern Cross says:

    With a smaller caliber, you may need to shoot them more than once.

  7. avatar Indiana Tom says:

    Randy Wakeman had a study on calibers compared to effectiveness killing deer. The conclusion was the center fire rifle cartridge size did not matter very much.

  8. avatar ollie says:

    Winners get to pick judges sympathetic to their own views. Sorry.

    McConnell needs to make sure the conformation vote is held before November.

    1. avatar Swarf says:

      Winners get to pick judges? Pretty sure President Obama would have a few words to say about that.

      1. avatar Ing says:

        When Obama’s turn to make a Supreme Court pick came up, the campaign to elect his successor was already underway and his party had lost control of the Senate. Obama was a loser.

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          IS a loser.

  9. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    Unfortunately, some people just won’t stop until they’re dead. Just a fact of life, so you pick your cartridge and you take your chances.

  10. avatar Steve D says:

    So, .357 magnum is a “larger” caliber than .38? And 7.62 is a “larger” caliber than 9mm. Maybe they’re confused with the popularity of the new .9mm. If that study was peer reviewed, they would be shamed, not just embarrassed.

    1. avatar Ing says:

      When the peer reviewers are even more ignorant than the authors, it doesn’t do any good.

  11. avatar John E> says:

    That study just proves you need a PhD to see the obvious…

    1. avatar Laserbeam says:

      PhD….Piled high and Deep?

  12. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    So. You have to lead the target when shooting clays.
    Whoulda thunkit?

    I’m simply dumbfounded. Now I gotta try a round and see if I can hit one.

  13. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    “They found that bigger bullets are deadlier than smaller ones”

    No Duh,it took how many rocket scientist’s to figure that out.

  14. avatar Geoff "Mess with the Bull, get the Horns" PR says:

    On Judge Kavanaugh –

    “He was equally dismissive of Washington’s gun registration protocol, saying it had not been traditionally required in the nation and “remains highly unusual today.”

    That right there has me most pumped up for Kavanaugh on the Court.

    Getting gun registration requirements declared unconstitutional is the key to protecting our gun rights.

    As far as I’m concerned, the only ‘illegal gun’ should be one that’s reported stolen. For all the others, unless you are a declared ‘prohibited person’ found in possession of a firearm, law enforcement should have nothing to say with what you own…

  15. avatar jwm says:

    people that favor gun control did a ‘study’ that proves larger calibers are more dangerous?

    Next up is their attempts to ban anything bigger than .177 caliber. For public safety, of course.

    1. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

      Think of all the unarmed black men that could be saved if the police all switched to .22s!

      1. avatar Big Bill says:

        A lot of them have.
        Oh, you meant .22 rimfire. Never mind.

  16. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    “Kavanaugh could become that crucial fourth vote”

    From his lips to Gods ear because Kavanaugh’s not too originalist of the Fourth Amendment.

    1. avatar Rick Hess says:

      I would much rather he be the crucial 5th vote.

  17. avatar former water walker says:

    You ever wonder why more folks don’t DIE in the daily carnage that is CHIRAQ?!? Lotsa’ punk azz boyz with small(think 22) calibers spraying without praying. Heck a few daze ago 7 were shot at pointblank range on a park bench on the Southside. Only one died…Kavanaugh is our man!

  18. avatar Michael Stilinovich says:

    Really makes me happy to see Google as not only the police but also the prosecutor, the judge and the jury. Please inform us sheep when will you build the gallows?

  19. avatar 33Charlemagne says:

    Confirmation that the extra power of a .357 Magnum as compared to a 9mm makes a difference.

    1. avatar Bob h says:

      Also shows the average shots fired per incident was 3-5, reinforcing the suspicion of many that a 357 revolver probably is the gold standard for self defense, even in 2018.

      1. avatar FedUp says:

        What’s the 90th percentile, the number of shots that was exceeded 10% of the time?

        I think it would show that 6 isn’t enough more than 10% of the time.

    2. avatar ScorpionFan says:

      “The researchers divided the data into three groups based on the caliber of the guns used: small (22, .25, .32), medium (.38, .380, 9mm), and large (.357 magnum, .40, .44 magnum, .45, 10mm, 7.62x39mm).”

      So .22LR is less lethal than 9mm, .357 magnum, and 7.62×39? We needed university research to show this? What a waste of money and resources. Just take a “researcher” to tne range and let him/her shoot a large chunk of meat with a 22LR and a 7.62×39. Any question which is more lethal? Now shoot a .22LR and .223/5.56mm at similar target items, and ask them “So you considered both of these in the same category of small, lower lethality calibers?

      I will bet they did not include .223/5.56 shootings in their data set of “small.” That would have messed up their conclusions. If they didn’t include .223 because there weren’t any .223 shooting incidents in their set of criminal shootings, then ask, so did you determine AR-15 and similar “assault weapons” are rarely used by criminals trying to murder people.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        You touch on an interesting question. Who was paying for such a stupid study?

  20. avatar Bob Watson says:

    Gentlemen, mark my words. Nothing good will come from having anti-civil rights bigots join the caliber wars debate. I tremble at the thought of willfully, woefully ignorant, but well paid, propagandists delving into the exaggerated advertising claims of the ammunition manufacturers and the drivel repeated by legions of internet experts. Crazy Lady Pelosi may be staring fixedly at images of ammunition at this very moment, trying to decide what to ban in her next legislative proposal. The state of California may criminalize possession of those extra dangerous, sharp pointy bullets. New York state will likely impose a 10 round limit on all boxes of ammunition.

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      Maybe they’ve grandfathered the existing ones, but when Arnie was Gubernator, California banned the evil powerful .50 BMG “because you can shoot down airplanes with it.” Which is when Barret stopped servicing LEO .50 BMGs.

      1. avatar TrappedInCommiefornia says:

        If I’m not mistaken, a single shot .50 bmg rifle is still legal here.

        1. avatar California Richard says:

          Nope…. .510 dtc and .416 Barrett are legal.
          Both are .50 bmg derivatives but any and all .50 bmg rifles are banned, if they weren’t registered in 2004.

          30610 PC
          https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=30610.&lawCode=PEN

  21. avatar Chunk says:

    I’m generally considered liberal and I own enough guns to count as one of those so-called “super gun owners*” that were all the rage a year ago. Life is complicated; so are people.

    * https://www.thetrace.org/2016/09/gun-super-owners-harvard-survey/

    1. avatar California Richard says:

      Thats a matter of perspective. I could be considered a liberal or conservative depending on what company I keep. As it is, out here in the S.F. Bay Area I’m a fanatical Christian, racist, homophobic, alt-right, fascist pig supporting, Trump loving, terrorist NRA life member.

      Away from here, I’m a Prius driving, heathen, RINO, pro-police state, big-government loving, terrorist Fudd.

  22. avatar arc says:

    Kavanaugh might be pro 2A but hes going to utterly butcher the fourth amendment. Its ridiculous that this guy got onto Trump’s short list.

    1. avatar FedUp says:

      I hope it’s not as bad as you think, but he could easily be another Thomas.

      A lot of conservatives in this country, not just judges, are copsuckers.

    2. avatar Zhang says:

      Alex Jones and Roger Stone were sounding the alarm on Kavanaugh being the Deep State pick for the Supreme Court, and I believe they are right. Kavanaugh is a Bushie through and through with all that entails (big fan of the PATRIOT Act).

  23. avatar Gralnok says:

    Democrats with guns. Either, they are Antifa terrorist wannabes, or they are the textbook definition of Fudds at best. Either way, I’m not keen on welcoming them to the club.

    On an unrelated note, I was unaware Simon’s Cat had another game out.

  24. avatar Gun Owning American says:

    Any way to ditch Google Play?

  25. avatar David says:

    So the “learned professor” states that larger calibers are more lethal than smaller calibers. I guess he and his “peers” are “ballistically ignorant.” There literally hundreds of examples that demonstrate that the ballistic coefficient and sectional density are the most important factors used to determine the potential lethality of a bullet. A prime example is to compare similar bullets of different calibers. Using the 30/06 and the 6.5×55 SE the comparison of 160 grain bullets clearly shows that the 6.5mm(.264) bullet has a significantly higher sectional density and ballistic coefficient than the 7.62mm(.30) bullet. This clearly shows that a 160 grain .264 caliber bullet is more lethal than a .30 caliber bullet. I would also use the .25 acp compared to the 22 long rifle. The 22 long rifle is certainly more lethal than 25 acp. Suggesting that a larger bore size is indicative of lethality is ludicrous. Yes a 9mm is more lethal than a 32 acp but bore size s not the reason why. These moron sitting in their “ivory towers” publishing “research papers” without valid foundational support are an example of the ignorance demonstrated by isolation from reality. When I read the headline of the article it almost made me laugh except for the fact that the cited research disseminate misinformation to the gun grabbers. I also take issue with denigrating the term “liberal.” Not all liberals are ignorant gun grabbers. Some are actually very experienced shooters with gun safes filled with rifles and handguns and shotguns. Those remarks denigrating “liberal gun owners” is the same as stating that “all conservatives are heartless racist pigs” The finger pointing only serves to strengthen those who choose to remain hidden as they pull the strings of power. Denigrating liberals or conservatives only keeps We The People divided. United We Stand. If “We” remain divided then our Republic too will die.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      We can only pray they don’t find out about the 6.5 Creedmore!

  26. avatar Sora says:

    Liberals with guns…. That’s the one who shot JFK and MLK, etc?

    Yeah, don’t trust them at all, especially when they hold a shot gun and call for “Sensible Gun Control”.

    Kick them out, they are trying to be Trojans.

    1. avatar Big Bill says:

      “Kick them out, they are trying to be Trojans.”

      Do you mean the Greeks or the prophylactics?

      1. avatar California Richard says:

        That statement confused me too, but I think I know what he means.

        Trojans like horses. The Greeks built a big wood horse. The Trojans tore down their walls to bring big wood horse inside because they like horses. Trojans throw a big party, get hammered, and let their guard down. Greeks hop out of the big horse and kill all the Trojans.

        So, either:

        The liberal gun owners are trying to sneak in and undo us from within.

        Or….

        Liberals are foolish like Trojans. They are purposefully disarming themselves and letting down their defenses. They will be slaughtered in their sleep and their cities will burn.

        The correct answer is: yes.

        1. avatar Big Bill says:

          OK, thanks for clearing that up.
          Although the story about the Trojan Horse, is not quite the classic story.
          As most understand the story, the Greeks, after about a decade of laying siege to Troy, constructed a huge wooden horse, left it at the gates of Troy, and pretended to sail off.
          The Trojans, thinking they had won, pulled the “gift horse” into the city, and set about to celebrate their victory. Greek soldiers, hidden within the horse, then got out, and opened the gates ( the Trojans didn’t tear down their walls; all cities were walled at the time, so to do so wouldn’t even enter their minds), and let the rest of the Greek army in.

  27. avatar Don says:

    This article is a fun read but I’m still trying to figure out if its meant to be sarcastic humor.

    So you are saying that a grenade will kill more than a firecracker?

    The bigger the bullet the more damage it can cause?

    I think anyone with a brain already knew. As for saying this proves guns kill people, i have yet to see evidence that a gun has operated itself. Though i did hear of a monkey shooting someone once.

    Your article makes me LOL

  28. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

    Typical of anti-gun research, it looks only at the costs while ignoring any possible benefits. Analyzing the fatalities vs. non-fatalities of those who were shot and calculating how many fewer deaths would be caused if all the guns used were smaller caliber ignores how many more victims of violent attack might have been killed if they weren’t able to stop their attacker as quickly.

  29. avatar Moltar says:

    OK…. Ummm that research paper tries to prove that people don’t kill people guns do yet I’ve never seen a single case of a properly functioning firearm loading itself, aiming at a person, and firing itself. So indeed a person is in that equation somewhere loading, aiming, and making a CONSCIOUS decision to fire. Take the gun from the equation and that person moves to another tool to murder. Yes guns make killing easier and therefore more gangbangers prefer them, beating or stabbing a person to death is a difficult task and that person may still survive if medical assistance is acquired in a timely manner.

  30. avatar Salty Bear says:

    Bullets don’t kill people. Gaping holes in vital organs kill people.

    1. avatar jwm says:

      Husbands that come home early from work kill people.

  31. avatar TrappedInCommiefornia says:

    A marksmanship program for liberals? What’s wrong, they don’t want the embarrassment of having another one of their loonies fail at assassinating Republican congressmen on an open field agan?

  32. avatar Aaron M. Walker says:

    “DEATH RAY…”

  33. avatar Cloudbuster says:

    Imagine the reduction in fatalities if all calibers were replaced with plastic straws and spitballs!

    But I wouldn’t want to be seen carrying an evil, planet-destroying plastic straw!

    1. avatar Keith says:

      Bingo!

  34. avatar Joseph Shuler says:

    I own rifles & shot guns & hand guns. Very enjoyable to have! Not there for shooting humans. However! If need be….As for home protection! Whatever gun is the nearest at that time. My .22 semi auto will speak in volume’s. With 40 grain. / Just practice as often as you can.know your weapon! If it has gun powder it will kill.

  35. avatar Pete says:

    Like any such survey, we will need to see the data.
    What definition was used to determine what constitutes a “large caliber” vs “small caliber” in the study?
    ETA – My Spider sense tingles when a study like this uses the terms low caliber and high caliber.

  36. avatar Accur81 says:

    So is TTAG still hating on Trump or taking a reprieve? I’d like him to be stronger on gun rights, but overall he’s been a fantastic POTUS.

  37. avatar Dave says:

    I posted this on the comments section of the JAMA site.
    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2688536
    See if it goes up.

    It appears you are trying to get at some measure of overall measure of a cartridge to determine lethality.

    You are conflating caliber (diameter of the projectile), powder charge, type of gun action (revolver vs semi auto) and other things.

    Examples –

    .38 and 357 magnum fire the same projectile (caliber) but use different powder charges. Same with .40 and 10mm.

    44 magnum is fired from a revolver, 40 and 10 mm from semi auto.

    The 30 caliber rifle is smaller caliber but the same bullet weight as the 38 and 9mm bullets and fired from a longer barrel.

    Rimfire (22) vs centerfire priming.

    Not mentioned was the type of projectile, -design, weight, material, shape etc that any hunter would know has a bearing on effectiveness for different uses.

    So, you could arrange the data to show other outcomes.

    The smaller 9mm is more lethal than .40 caliber.

    Revolvers are more lethal than semi auto’s (depending on what action the .45 caliber guns used).

    AR15 rifles and it’s 22 caliber bullet are not used for homicides.

    And this only scratches the surface of ballistics, retained energy, sectional density, bullet construction, weight of the gun and its effects on precision, sights, etc. that have an effect on potential lethality.

    Also not mentioned was the number of homicides prevented by the use of firearms by potential victims. Does unholstering a 44 mag cause crooks to flee more than a 22 derringer?

  38. avatar slacker says:

    It looks like the study shows Asian women indoors are more than 99% less likely to be shot than a male black gang member outdoors.

    1. avatar jwtaylor says:

      Asian women stay indoors as a public safety concern. Because Asian women behind the wheel are 1,000% more likely to kill you than any black male gang member ever.

    2. avatar Cloudbuster says:

      There is the solution! All Black gang members just need to start identifying as Asian women and stay inside more!

  39. avatar Straightshooter says:

    This study ONLY provides hard evidence that larger caliber weapons are more lethal than smaller caliber weapons. THAT’s IT!

    There’s so much more to take into consideration in determining which is better for self defense as well there’s much more to determine the effectiveness of any particular gun control measure. This study is so narrow, it just doesn’t address these issues in any way.

    For example:

    For self defense, it hasn’t measured how many times various weapons were fired in self defense having non-lethal results or no results at all. While larger caliber weapons are more lethal, they too are harder to keep on target to inflict a lethal hit or just a wound; the age old issue over managing recoil for effectiveness. I didn’t see anything the types of bullet’s used (e.g. defensive rounds vs. standard round nose rounds) which can skew such a study’s results.

    For gun control, there’s nothing new here that this study provides. It’s been common knowledge for a very long time that larger caliber weapons are more lethal than smaller one’s. This issue over gun control should not be the lethality of a particular caliber, but checks and balances of who should be able to legally acquire and own them. But those who simply don’t care to abide by law, will get what they want by whatever means regardless.

  40. avatar Mark H says:

    “The researchers divided the data into three groups based on the caliber of the guns used: small (22, .25, .32), medium (.38, .380, 9mm), and large (.357 magnum, .40, .44 magnum, .45, 10mm, 7.62x39mm).”

    Hey guys, rifles kill people better than handguns! Who would have thought?

  41. avatar James W Crawford says:

    After reading the Gennifer Flowers interview I. penthouse and the Paula No es affadavit concerning the destinguishing characteristics, I have often cited Bill Clinton as proof that size and character do matter.

  42. avatar DaveDetroit says:

    Study the data a different way and you’ll find a stronger correlation between gun violence and holding a progressive/Democrat belief system than any other factor.

    Typical Democrats can only see a gun as something they’d use to murder others; while sane people see functional art, a day hunting and close to nature, target shooting with friends and family, the challenge of building skills and self reliance, and yes, the ability to better defend themselves from violent criminals or aggressive animals.

    I think violence is somehow inherent to democrats’ belief systems. Perhaps it comes from their absolute belief in denying other’s their rights of self determination. Perhaps a holdover from their slave-owning roots?

  43. avatar Jacky Boy says:

    When will they learn if someone wants to obtain a firearm to use with ill intent, they are going to do so. Whether it’s by a private party sle illegally, or taking a relatives. However most people who use a firearm with ill intent did not obtain it in a legal way. FIREARM CONTROL LAWS ONLY AFFECT LAW ABIDING. The person with the illegal firearm that has illegal ammunition in a illegal high capacity magazine clearly does not care about firearm control laws. The law abiding citizen that has to defend themselves from the non law abiding criminal is now at a disadvantage. Besides the part where it says the rights of the people to keep an bear arms shall not be “infringed” (means to not place silly limits or rules upon, to not be restricted, hinder or encroach upon) most firearm control laws are plain dumb as shit because laws only affect law abiding. Should people have automatic weapons? No, it’s a pointless waste of ammo an unless it’s a spray an pray war scenario, your intent is to kill mass amounts of people or is a mounted (tripod or vehicle) belt fed and backed by alot of money or the military a select fire weapon is pointless, useless an economically impractical depending on caliber. Alot of the laws do make sence however just as many are equally illogical. Also our for Father’s left us a republic not a democracy. In a republic your bike is your bike an regardless if the majority wants it, it is your bike an protected by law to remain your bike. In a democracy if the majority want your bike they can take your bike an the law can’t stop it because majority deems that the bike is not yours. So if you have no firearms you cannot get your bike back. It is also our constitutional right to overthrow a tyrannical government with Force if necessary. Substitute bike with freedom an if it don’t make sence to you, your probably part of the problem. Lastly if I haven’t stated it yet laws tend to only affect law abiding, if criminals cared about laws they would not be criminals now would they? Life an the truth can be a hard pill to swallow, but they’re chewable. Also don’t take a laxative and a sleeping pill at the same time or your gonna have a shitty morning.

    Y’all can be the scarecrow an have no brains, ya’ll can be a lion with no courge, I’ll be the tin man with no heart over those two any day.

    Remember there is no demon in hell that wasent first an angel in heaven, even the devil was the most beautiful of all the angels once.

    I will sacrafice everything for those I love, I’ll take dying with my boots on standing over living on my knees.

    Loyalty above all loss. I’m only loyal to the things an those whom I love. I’d slit anyone’s throat with a butcher knife to protect the ones I love but I’d slit my own with a spoon to protect them as well.

    I wanna know how so many people have not suffocated with their heads so far up their ass for as long as they’ve had them stuck up there. It’s a medical an scientifical mind boggling mystery I tell ya.

  44. avatar Jacky Boy says:

    Oh yeah I completely forgot to tell you strap-on spelled backwards is no-parts.

    My personal hero an one of the greatest humanitarians alive is in prison for beating known pedophiles to death with a hammer. Free him an give that man a medal.

  45. avatar Mark Webb says:

    In other news today, water is wet!

    Film at 11:00……

  46. avatar dee says:

    Bad news about google.

    People are going to be real sorry when your internet service provider starts blocking gun web sites. Don’t think it can happen? Internet service providers are private companies. Only thing that was keeping them in line were the net neutrality rules you didn’t support.

  47. avatar mobiusAK says:

    Admittedly I didn’t read every single comment here, but from what I did read it seems like we’re all jumping on the caliber topic and no one is reporting the hugely important finding in this study that supports the one thing we all completely agree on. A full 87.6% of all fatalities listed were as a direct result of criminal activity. Either gang (66.8%), drug (17.1%), or robbery (3.7%). And 84.9% of the non-fatal shootings were a direct result of crime. Seriously? Are we just going to let them slide that in there and not scream it back in their face? Criminals don’t follow the law! They cause the VAST majority of all shootings and making new laws isn’t going to change any of that.

  48. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    Liberal gun owners will vote for gay sex, legal marijuana intoxication, free stuff from the government, and vote for big government so it can bother conservatives. Voting for guns in the last thing a Liberal gun owner would do.

  49. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    The Gun Dealio App from Gun Talk radio I assume is in danger.

  50. avatar Scoutino says:

    So, larger chunks of metal moving at higher velocities create larger holes in people? Who knew, right!? Give the guy a medal!

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