A Good Guy’s Story, The High Capacity Fallacy and MGM Sues Victims – TTAG Daily Digest

Arizona Candidate Bobby Wilson Shot Mother

courtesy krem.com

Arizona Senate candidate who killed his mother supports ‘good guys’ with guns

It’s a horrible story, but it supports the good guy with a gun position . . .

A big crowd gathered in a Tucson church last week, ready to hear candidates’ plans for gun-control legislation from people vying to become lawmakers at the Arizona state Capitol.

All was going more or less as expected. Then, it was Bobby Wilson’s turn to speak.

Wilson, one of two Republican candidates who attended the July 9 meeting, took the mic and told a story of how he shot and killed a crazed attacker in an act of self-defense while a teenager.

That attacker, it turned out, was his mother.

Jerrry Brown Governor California Moombeam Pro-Gun

courtesy capitolhilloutsider.com

Whoa: California Gov. Jerry Brown Signs a Pro-Gun Bill

Marginally pro-gun. Very marginally . . .

Last week, California Gov. Jerry Brown (D) signed a bill that would allow retired law enforcement officers to keep their “high capacity magazines” in the Golden State, The Santa Clarita Valley Signal reported.

Assembly Bill 1192 was introduced by Assemblyman Tom Lackey (R-Palmdale), a retired California Highway Patrol officer.

When the Safety For All Act of 2016 was passed by voters on November 2016, it made it illegal as of July 1, 2017 for a person to possess a large-capacity magazine. Retired peace officers were exempt. Lackey’s law now includes reserve officers as well.

Losing Count: The Empty Case for ‘High-Capacity’ Magazine Restrictions.

Facts are stubborn things . . .

There are three main problems with these bans. First, the term “high-capacity” is used by legislatures to describe standard, common equipment rather than magazines that stretch a weapon’s capacity beyond its intended design. Second, discussions of the issue are replete with fundamental misconceptions about firearm magazines and their place under the Second Amendment. In fact, some courts have held that magazines have no constitutional protection at all, contravening precedent indicating that the right to keep and bear arms protects all bearable arms in common use, including their magazines and ammunition, regardless of the arms in existence at the time of the Founding. Magazines are not mere accessories, but essential components of modern firearms.

Third, there is little evidence that high-capacity magazine restrictions have any positive effects on public safety. To support these laws, states point to horrific crimes involving large-capacity magazines. But the connection between the crime and the magazine is conjectural at best, while the prohibitions against such magazines have disrupted the lives of many otherwise law-abiding gun owners — and all without any evidence of improvements in public safety. In some courts, it seems that merely uttering the phrase “gun violence” suffices to justify any exercise of state power. These policies are ineffective, dangerous, and unconstitutional.

courtesy texas3006.com

Houston Churches Remove ‘No Guns’ Signs, Citing Safety Concerns

Progress . . .

The Catholic Diocese of Fort Worth has removed signs from its parishes warning people not to carry guns on church property. The Diocese hasn’t changed its no-guns policy. But officials worried the signs themselves made the churches a more attractive target. Some churches around Houston are taking similar precautions.

Last year’s attack at Sutherland Springs First Baptist Church forced the Houston Area Pastor Council to think about how to balance the need for safety with the need to provide a welcoming environment. The question of posting no-firearms signs was a big one, and ultimately most churches in the network decided against it.

“There was that concern that if these signs were posted, that it would be a signal that, very clearly, that potential shooters would have less resistance there, unless…those particular churches had visible, consistent, armed personnel or uniformed personnel, on-site, which some do but many don’t,” said Dave Welch, the Council’s executive director.

Mandalay Bay Shooting Stephen Paddock Sue Victims

courtesy businessinsider.com and AP

MGM sues more than 1,000 victims of Las Vegas shooting, denying liability for the massacre

Here’s a good PR move . . .

The company’s lawsuits, filed in federal courts in Nevada and California, noted that more than 2,500 victims and related persons have either filed or threatened to file complaints against MGM, claiming negligence and responsibility for death, injury and emotional distress related to the massacre.

But MGM’s suits argue that those current and potential claims against the company must be dismissed because of a 2002 federal law that grants liability protection to any company that uses anti-terrorism technology.

MGM asserts that the security company hired for the festival, Contemporary Services, was protected from liability as it was certified by the Department of Homeland Security.

comments

  1. avatar New Continental Army says:

    Wow. I guess MGM wants to go out of buisness with a bang. Judging by their behavior, maybe they were complicit with Paddock?

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      I doubt people will decide to stay or not stay there based on this move. It’s not a bad idea, basically trying to preempt a bunch of individual legal actions and take care of it at once to reduce legal fees.

      1. avatar Big Bill says:

        IMO, it’s a really bad idea.
        Why stay someplace that sues customers, saying, “But we hired security people!”?
        What’s next, suing customers when someone breaks into the rooms and steals stuff, saying, “We told you to lock your door”?

  2. avatar No one of consequence says:

    Sorry … That bill Brown signed is not pro gun at all. It is, however, pro elitist exemption.

    1. avatar EWTHeckman says:

      It’s an old, old story. “Weapons for me and my people, none for you.” This was true even before firearms were invented.

    2. avatar Jon in CO says:

      Yeah, not understanding how not returning, giving, or removing stuff for civilians is “pro-gun”, but what do I know.

      Seriously TTAG? Farrago wasn’t always right, but there’s no way he would’ve let this joke hit the page.

      1. avatar A O says:

        Baby steps. Farrago first, Zimmerman second.

      2. avatar Kenneth says:

        This isn’t the first BS that goes here now, under the new management. But don’t worry, a new site will pop up soon, we will all go there, and they will progressive this one up until it, too, fails miserably.
        That’s my prediction. Whether it will be allowed here or not is another question. Censorship always rears its ugly head…

        1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

          They are not known as Progtards for nothing.

      3. avatar Big Bill says:

        And the fourteenth amendment bars such exemptions to law.

    3. avatar Chris. says:

      And how is this law not unconstitutional?

      Star bellied Sneetches get to have and keep high capacity magazines “Regular” Sneetches don’t.

      How does this not violate the 14th Equal Protection Clause?

    4. avatar Nigel the expat says:

      A bill giving ‘more equal animals’ access to standard capacity mags is not pro-gun at all. It supports and advocates the #onlyones standard and two-classes of citizens.

  3. avatar Baldwin says:

    LEO (active or retired) carve-outs imply their rights are more important than the rights of ordinary citizens. No one’s right to bear arms stops at 10 rounds…except when dictated by tyrants.

    1. avatar A O says:

      In these carve outs, I question how much influence the gun manufacturers may have. A blue label Glock is only sold with three high-cap mags. Are they letting them keep the high-caps because that was their standard issue from the manufacturer and they want to keep business with the manufacturer?

  4. avatar New Continental Army says:

    That’s right. Russia is involved in everything. EVERYTHING I tell you!!! … in fact there’s a Russian RIGHT BEHIND YOU!!!!

    1. avatar New Continental Army says:

      Well, this doesn’t make sense now. It was written in response to a childish post by trueliberalnutjobsconstantlycryingaboutfreedomlovingdeplorables

      1. avatar DrewR says:

        I still enjoyed it, even without context.

        1. avatar No one of consequence says:

          Yep, now it reads as …. satire! (Protip: draw out the “s” to make it sound sexy and edgy)

      2. avatar Kenneth says:

        Welcome to the world of censorship. It’s obvious that the sheeple must not be allowed to see anything that might make them think. If they thought, they wouldn’t be sheep.

    2. avatar California Richard says:

      When 6.5 CM wins the 2020 election, bigots, who automatically hate all things gun related, will accuse 6.5 CM of being invented by the russians!!….. “If it were Murican, then it would be .270 CM!! Take yer Gerddamn commie metric system back to China!!”

  5. avatar pwrserge says:

    You mean the arrest on trumped up charges that will never hold up in court? You know, like the charge against 12 Russian “hackers” based on 100% inadmissible “evidence”?

    Tell me another one commie scum.

    1. avatar jwm says:

      He got pulled as soon as he posted. I tried to type in the c isco kids name in a comment a couple of days ago and it wouldn’t get thru the filter till I misspelled it on purpose. Maybe c-isco and the real dummy are one and the same and they’ve been banned?

      Too bad, really. They/he helped make Trump a viable candidate.

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        That’s the hilarious part. Crisco the Kid and other ANTIFA terrorists like him are the reason that Trump will have a massive GOP majority in both houses come November.

        1. avatar No one of consequence says:

          From your lips to the electorate’s fingertips.

      2. avatar Kenneth says:

        So that’s why the post I tried to make a few days ago would just hang. It was about cis-co and fr-iar tu-ck being sock puppets of each other. I noticed the way that the new one showed up as soon as the other troll went away. Seems like quite a co-incidence, esp. after noting the same thing with 2A sux.
        It would appear that this forum is now becoming the echo chamber that they all accused us of being(and tuck still does), back when we weren’t.

        1. avatar HP says:

          Whatever happened to that one guy who posted here, his screen name was something like “freedomlovingpatriotagainst2Atyranny’ or something like that. He linked his name to yahoo.com, I was always convinced the guy was a bored pro-gun troll and his homepage being Yahoo meant that he was in fact a complete Yahoo.

        2. avatar jwm says:

          2asux is still here. He also posts as Sam I Am.

    2. avatar Mark N. says:

      Whether trumped up or not, the charges will not “hold up in court” only because the 12 hackers are all Russian GRU agents who are not resident in the US or any other place where they might be subject to arrest. The reason they were filed were probably several fold: 1) to warn Trump, who dislikes reading intelligence summries, about Putin’s various schemes (which are all quite real); 2) for the publicity , and 3) to attempt to demonstrate that Mueller is actually doing something besides twiddling his thumbs. On the other hand, although his assignment was a bit vague, the original purpose of the investigation was to determine if there was any collusion between Russian agents and the Trump campaign. That Russian agents may have tried to influence the election (which I don’t doubt since the same sorts of activities have been a part of putin’s playbook for many years) doesn’t get them anywhere near answering that question.

      1. avatar Kenneth says:

        That’s not quite the way it went for Mueller though, back in May, now was it?
        https://www.dailywire.com/news/30556/disaster-mueller-indicted-russian-company-didnt-ryan-saavedra
        I would imagine that was his plan, sure. It’s a natural, for a Washingtard. After years of finding nothing, just produce some garbage indictment that’s already public knowledge, figuring that you will never have to back any of the BS up in court, since it involves foreign nationals that you have no jurisdiction over in the first place.
        It just didn’t work out that way is all. This will fare no better. Putin already offered to let them be questioned, in return for the Russians getting to question Bill Browder and his minions. Check… and Mate? Checkmate remains to be seen, but the corner the ‘progressive’s have painted themselves into is obvious. It’s an interesting game to watch anyway. The beltway swamp has most of the pieces, but they throw them away so stupidly that the relative strength’s between the sides are almost meaningless.
        The best laid plans of mice(and retarded beltway insiders) and men…

  6. avatar pwrserge says:

    Oh, and enjoy watching the originalist majority on the SCotUS grow to 7-2 over the next six years… You and your gun grabbing terrorist buddies are done. Have fun in the dustbin of history.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      … and poof goes the commie… Thanks TTAG. Please feel free to remove my two responses

  7. avatar Ed Schrade says:

    Gov. moonbeam signed a bill that means nothing since the 9th. circuit threw out the high cap. magazine law.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      Not quite yet. Just an injunction at this point. However, the chances of a ban being thrown out are more than decent. There’s no way the 9th circus will want to send that garbage for the SCotUS to strike down nation wide.

      1. avatar Mark N. says:

        Well, there was the D.C. case where the panel decision was in favor of shall issue carry, the petition for en banc review was denied, and which the City (pressured by NY and CA) decided NOT to appeal to the Supreme Court so as to prevent it from going national. So for the same circumstance to happen here, the Plaintiff will have to win in the trial court AND in the Ninth, followed by a decision by CA to not pursue the case any further. The odds of an affirmance of a trial court decision throwing out the law is questionable. The Ninth doesn’t give a damn what the Supreme Court has to say about gun control cases.

      2. avatar m. says:

        correction: 9th cervix court, following the 1970’s steps of rosie & the supremes in cali-fagnia

  8. avatar former water walker says:

    Govner Moonbeam deserves no kudos. Cops are special dontchaknow?!? Mandalay Bay will go bust…which assinine lawyer(s) thought suing the crowd was a worthy idea?😢

  9. avatar Ralph says:

    MGM isn’t suing anybody. This is an action for declaratory judgment, which is a judgment to determine the rights of parties without awarding any damages or ordering anything to be done. MGM wants the court to declare that it isn’t liable for the actions of a madman.

    With 1000 potential plaintiffs, consolidating them all into a single declaratory judgment action would seem to be a necessary expedient. If MGM wins, potential cases are over and done with. If MGM loses, settlements will quickly be offered. Either way, it’s better than 1000 separate cases.

    Saying that MGM is suing the victims is the very definition of fake news. And “fake news” is actually a polite way of saying “bvllshit.”

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      I completely concur. Although it can be spun negatively, this is a sensible and economical approach to the situation. I’ve been involved in two mass tort cases, and they almost always turn out the same way: if he plaintiffs can get past summary judgment by defendants (or in this case declaratory relief), years of litigation and thousands of separate trials on damages force the defendant into submission, because the cost of defense far exceeds the face value of even large policies. It is simply cheaper to settle than to fight. Obtaining a definitive judgment as to an affirmative defense applicable to all plaintiffs (the majority of whom are represented by the same Houston law firm) is the most efficient approach to the case.

      1. avatar Big Bill says:

        Doesn’t a suit seeking a declaratory judgement still need defendants?

  10. avatar Rick the Bear says:

    “But officials worried the signs themselves made the churches a more attractive target.”

    “There was that concern that if these signs were posted, that it would be a signal that, very clearly, that potential shooters would have less resistance there…”

    I’m shocked, shocked I tell you.

    My synagogue’s board came up with the same gutsy idea. They don’t want firearms, but…they know that posting it would be a back-handed invitation. Also, they were totally against posting a “guns welcome” sign. “Let’s just hide and maybe we’ll be OK.” Great plan. Or not. (Not _my_ plan.)

    1. avatar Kendahl says:

      The important question is whether parishioners are now permitted to carry at mass. If they are, it may be a firearms version of don’t ask, don’t tell.

      1. avatar m. says:

        who cares what some d-sucker with a piece of toilet paper in his collar “says”

      2. avatar Big Bill says:

        If you’re carrying concealed, who’s to know?

    2. avatar Bierce Ambrose says:

      “But officials worried the signs themselves made the churches a more attractive target.”

      “There was that concern that if these signs were posted, that it would be a signal that, very clearly, that potential shooters would have less resistance there…”

      So, they’re finally figuring out that opportunistic whack-jobs go for … targets of opportunity?

    3. avatar bobo says:

      funny you post this…

      even in LA where I used to live ..before I escaped the commie place…synagogues were known by all to be one of the best and most armed places in the city…even better armed than the cops!

      1. avatar Kenneth says:

        Bobo: not the Catholics, though. Their policy remains; No guns allowed. However, without the signage, it has no force of Law. So, anybody that carries there is in violation of church policy, but not of Law. Which means that they will attempt to enforce the prohibition within the church, using internal pressures, threats, and intimidation, rather than police. That’s what I predict, anyway. Their only other option would be to inform everyone they think might be carrying to leave according to their policy, but that would open up the case that perhaps an individual will refuse to leave, meaning they would have to call police to have him removed, which would bring up their lack of signage, to be followed by an obvious lawsuit.

      2. avatar California Richard says:

        Ouch… I had no idea churches were so anti-gun in Texas. Hell, even in California churches don’t prohibit firearms, unless they are deep in the blue inner sanctum… Even then, those churches aren’t churches, they are tax exempt polictical pulpits that spew Godless propaganda.

  11. avatar Hannibal says:

    Re: the candidate shooting his mother in ‘self defense’, here’s his story:

    “Wilson said his mother, Lavonne Wilson, entered his room and repeatedly shot at him but missed.

    While aiming for Wilson, he said his mother must have seen a shadow move, so she swung the gun. The rifle butt hit his younger sister, Judy Wilson, in the back of the head and caved it in, he said. Wilson said Judy had entered his room upon hearing the commotion. An autopsy found she was killed upon impact to the head, according to Wilson.

    Wilson’s mother continued to shoot at him, Wilson said. A few bullets ricocheted off two gallon-size containers of gasoline in the room and smashed them open. The Wilsons stored gas in glass jars in Bobby’s bedroom because it was the coolest area of the house, which had no air-conditioning, he said. Gas spilled all over the floor, Wilson said.

    Wilson said he then grabbed a single-shot rifle from under his bed and fired at his mother. He said an autopsy later concluded the shot hit her point-blank in the eye. Wilson then ran to the living room to call for help.

    As he turned on the light switch to reach for the phone, a spark ignited fumes from the spilled gasoline in the other room, he said…”

    Sounds to me like the dude got away with murder. Double-murder, I suppose.

    1. avatar former water walker says:

      Sounds like the perfect politician…a Clinton devotee😏

    2. avatar John in AK says:

      ” . . .and then the Aliens attacked! And the dam burst! The price of fresh Halvah plummeted! Cars were selling for a dollar! The Mounties rode to the rescue. . . but they were too late! I had no choice but to admit to murdering them because I got amnesia! I’m an orphan! I only remembered because I smelled a grilled ham-and-cheese sandwich! I remembered. . . I don’t LIKE grilled ham-and-cheese sandwiches! Vote for ME!”

      I ASS-sume that whatever court dismissed the charges against this twit dismissed with prejudice; Otherwise, there is no statute of limitations for 1st-Degree Murder in Arizona, and many a murdering a**hole has been convicted on far less evidence than this.

      I have to ask: Did the person who wrote the title for this article (“A Good Guy’s Story”) and then came up with the line “It’s a horrible story, but it supports the good guy with a gun position . . . ” even bother to read the background article?! This does NOT ‘support good guys,’ and this ‘good guy’ is a bloody two-time murderer and arsonist!

      ‘Self-defense,’ my a**.

      1. avatar Gralnok says:

        Well, assuming the guy was still a kid when this all went down I’d say he has a good reason to fabricate a story. Serious childhood trauma.

        1. avatar John in AK says:

          He was 18. He confessed to the crime, in detail. Then he claimed ‘amnesia’ as a means to avoid a speedy trial. THEN he and his attorney claimed that he’d been denied a–you guessed it–‘speedy trial.’
          It’s not quite ‘cricket’ to complain about being traumatized by the death of one’s mother and sister when one is responsible for murdering them. He might as well, as I said, have asked for mercy because he was an orphan. . .
          That ol’ dog won’t hunt.
          This is a shameful tale, and it’s just a tad disconcerting for TTAG to still have his picture up and the article left as it is.
          Oh. . . did you note the part about him believing that the Oklahoma City Bombing was a government ‘sting,’ and that ‘an innocent man was executed’?
          These here fellow is one of them there ‘psychopaths.’

        2. avatar California Richard says:

          But that violent horde of children in the daycare center was charging right at McVeigh!! He had no choice but to defend himself with the only means of self defense he had at his disposal: 9 tons of homemade ANFO….. clearly Oklahoma City was a case of justifisble self defense /s/….. at least in this backassward twit’s world.

  12. avatar Chris Morton says:

    The only way MGM could top this would be to make matching $5,000,000 contributions to NAMBLA and ISIS.

    Brand suicide.

  13. avatar AZgunner says:

    Did TTAG even bother reading the article about the politician who killed his mom and sister? He clearly got away with murder and the only reason charges were dropped is it took too long to secure a retrial.

  14. avatar st381183 says:

    There is a heck of a lot more story behind the Arizona politician’s self defense story. Really not a poster child for good guy with a gun, more like…….he said she said, and she’s dead.

  15. avatar The Rookie says:

    “Last week, California Gov. Jerry Brown (D) signed a bill that would allow retired law enforcement officers to keep their “high capacity magazines” in the Golden State, The Santa Clarita Valley Signal reported.”

    This bill bugs me more than the original (and very stoopid) magazine ban.

    1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

      Yup. Me too. And I’m retired LEO.
      I simply don’t get how they can tier citizenship.
      This isn’t a Caste system. It’s either everyone, or no one. Period.

  16. avatar Geoff "Mess with the Bull, get the Horns" PR says:

    Look what just popped up on the ‘Zero Hedge’ :

    “Comey: Anyone Voting Republican This Fall Is Un-American”

    “Former FBI Director James Comey suggested over Twitter on Tuesday that anyone who votes Republican in the upcoming midterm elections is un-American.

    “Ambition must … counteract ambition,” wrote Comey, adding “All who believe in this country’s values must vote for Democrats this fall. Policy differences don’t matter right now. History has its eyes on us.”

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-17/comey-anyone-voting-republican-fall-un-american

    1. avatar Kenneth says:

      This too:
      https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=58713
      “Dem Rep Steve Cohen Calls For Military Coup to Oust Trump”
      The actual words were: “Where are our military folks ? The Commander in Chief is in the hands of our enemy!”
      Followed by:
      “Twitter isn’t action world but show your colors world.”
      Which I guess means that Mr. Cohen believes that he can legally say whatever he likes, incite riots and so forth, just so long as he doesn’t actually pick up a firearm himself. Not surprising, since so few of the swamplings have even two brain cells to rub together.

      1. avatar Big Bill says:

        If, “Although the Second Amendment people — maybe there is, I don’t know.” is a call to action from Trump (and we were told it was), then “Where are our military folks” is, also.
        But then, if the Dems didn’t have double standards,they wouldn’t have any at all.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Actually, it’s a call to commit 2 crimes.

          1. Insurrection against a democratically elected PotUS.
          2. Violation of the UCMJ about serving military using their position for political purposes.

  17. avatar Gralnok says:

    I’m bin Tucson and this is the first I’ve heard of any such meeting. I’m fiercely pro gun, so it’s probably best I didn’t show up anyway and ruin their little party with facts.

    1. avatar Blkojo says:

      I lived in Too Stoned for 49 years…47 straight. Until September 12 2017 0830. Only looked in the rear view mirror to check my truck load. Much happier up here in right-wing Mesa. It is cleaner, better-run, nicer roads….less Democrats. The Democrats have long been in charge on the city council and county board in Tucson. A city councilwoman even allocated $40k from her ward fund to have graffiti classes. It’s Austin West and/or San Francisco South. Used to be great. It is becoming Detroit of the West.

  18. avatar Sora says:

    Texas Law requires those big letter prints and sign to be put in display TO ban Concealed or Open carry.
    If the Church does NOT display the sign, that means the permit holder can LEGALLY carry. Regardless of “No gun policy” or what so ever.

    Don’t let them fool you. In Texas, No Sign means FREE TO CARRY.

    1. avatar Big Bill says:

      Almost. Property rights still exist.
      If the signs are posted, it’s enough to get you trespassed immediately if you’re caught carrying.
      If they aren’t posted, you first must be told you can’t carry, then you can be trespassed.

    2. avatar Bob999 says:

      In my state, unless there is a specific sign with explicit text as dictated in law that is posted near a government issued liquor license, the best they can do is ask you to leave. If you do not leave, you may get charged with trespassing. I presume that in Texas if a government approved big-a$$ sign is not posted on all the doors of a building, they can only ask you to leave and charge you with trespassing if you refuse.

  19. Why do retuired law enforcement officers need high capacity magazines?

    because they gunned down unarmed black men?

    If so,. why should not retired Crips also get to have high capacity magazines?

    1. avatar MIO says:

      Cause they never have full mags when stopped anyway LOL. Besides why do they need guns at all if dey wasn’t doin nuffin

  20. avatar Lord Longbottom says:

    If you read the contemporaneous newspaper accounts of the alleged good guy with a gun you’ll come to the conclusion that he’s a murderer.

    1. avatar Stereodude says:

      C’mon now, this is TTAG. Reading and proofreading aren’t part of the equation.

  21. avatar Bob999 says:

    “But officials worried the signs themselves made the churches a more attractive target.”

    No kidding!

    As we all know, the best way to avoid a mass shooting is to avoid “gun free zones”. This is a fact. If a church is a gun free zone, I will not go in. If I meet someone who attends a church that is a gun free zone, I do not see a “believer”, I see a future victim. The left is getting more violent with anyone who disagrees with them, and they are becoming increasingly more bigoted against people of Judeo-Christian faiths. It does not take a genius to realize that many people of faith who refuse to defend themselves may not survive what is likely to happen in the coming years.

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