Microstamping’s Problems Aren’t Bugs, They’re Features! – Quote of the Day

“Because of California’s law requiring new gun models to use microstamping, no gun manufacturer has introduced a new handgun model to our state since 2013. That means handguns with the latest and most reliable technology are not available to California’s law-abiding gun owners.

“That is exactly what anti-gun legislators wanted when they passed the law.

“This, as with most gun control bills, does nothing to improve public safety. It won’t get illegal guns off the street but will only drive up the cost of handguns made before 2013, making them unaffordable to Californians on a budget who wish to exercise their Second Amendment rights.” – Assemblyman Matthew Harper in It’s time to end ‘microstamp’ requirement for handguns [via latimes.com]

comments

  1. avatar Chris says:

    Handguns made after 2013, but otherwise correct. Check calguns for the price of a gen4/5 glock if you want an example. Also, microstamping doesn’t exist. Between that, the 10-day waiting period, and the new ammo law it’s pretty bad here.

    1. avatar No one of consequence says:

      Also before. As the legal supply of all handguns becomes smaller the prices will increase for older, used guns as well as newer ones from out of state.

      1. avatar Helms Deep says:

        Now, apply this micro-stamp regulation to proposed Bump-Stock Ban wording.

        So loose , so vague , so broad …… as G . O. A. says …. It will ban most SEMI-AUTO ‘s.
        A.T.F. is trying to say a bolt on external part changes the INTERNAL mechanical function converting it to Full – Auto.

        This is not a slippery slope ….. it’s a vertical sheet of ice !
        https://gunowners.org/alert04042018.htm

        As we just saw in Massachusetts , Liberal Activist judges / courts will ” Rule ” in favor of socialist P.C. feelings over facts.

        1. avatar Mike says:

          This is just feel good legislation to make it look like people are doing something. Because we know that rules and laws DO NOT STOP CRIME.
          I know for a fact that murder is illegal and yet here we are overs 17,000 non negligent murders annually plus over 44,000 opioid deaths. Yet here we are , punish the gun owners it’s all their fault. Last time I checked being a heroin dealer was not a constitutionally enumerated right.
          Take the time to go to the BATFE website and comment and keep commenting
          https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=ATF-2018-0002-0001

    2. avatar Topher in Texas says:

      The manufacturers need to stop selling to California based LEOs and this will change real fast. The carve outs are why the LEO groups haven’t collectively fought these laws.

      1. avatar Craig in IA says:

        Ronnie Barrett did this to California years back IIRC. Somewhere in the government/police system they picked up a few .50s of his for LE use, then when they banned .50 for the rest of citizenry he refused to do any repair or service to them. Our pal Les Baer moved his business from IL across the river to IA in response to their constant attacks on gun owners, we were in on helping with some local antigun opposition back then. And, of course Magpul, among others. The bitchers and whiners around here should take note.

        1. avatar Geoff PR says:

          “…then when they banned .50 for the rest of citizenry he refused to do any repair or service to them.”

          That won’t stop Cali cops from buying them new and getting them serviced.

          They will simply arrange buying them and getting them serviced through an out-of-state FFL…

      2. avatar Hannibal says:

        I think you may be overestimating the political power of LEOs in California.

  2. avatar Rusty Chains says:

    Of course it’s a feature! In a state run but Democrats that won’t change any time soon. As soon as they can get the rest of the illegals voting, they will always remain in power.

  3. avatar Moltar says:

    Well DUHHHH!!! That was the freakin point! California can’t get rid of the 2nd Amendment on their own so, they just come up with all kinds of stupid regulations that pretty well make it impossible for the average citizen to exercise that right. They knew exactly what they were doing, make ownership hard enough make the process as convoluted and frustrating as possible and make the manufacturing requirements high enough people will stop buying and manufacturers will stop making product for your state. Sorry Californians, nothing personal but the game was rigged from the start.

  4. avatar Rick the Bear says:

    I’m shocked, shocked I tell you. 😱

  5. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    Perhaps all of Commiefornia’s and the nations problems will be solved one of two ways,when they succeed from the union or become the newest pacific coast island.

    1. avatar Baldwin says:

      Only if we build a wall around Commiefornia and the only way a Commiefornian can gain access to the U.S. is to correctly articulate the correct definition of “infringe”!

      1. avatar Keith says:

        The very people who voted all these Socialist/Communist people into power are now leaving the state to move elsewhere and bring their cancers with them. We are seeing it here in South Fla. as the New Yorkers and those from Illinois and other northern democrat paradises are moving here. The destroy where they come from and move elsewhere bringing their disease with them and don’t understand that they are the problem!

        1. avatar Marty says:

          You’re so right. Same thing happened to the Bitterroot Valley in Montana. The Kalifornians moved in and now the prices for homes have sky rocketed. Same thing in Jackson Hole, WY. The libs moved in and eventually they had the name changed to just Jackson as they didn’t like the name of Jackson Hole. Now ya got to be a millionaire to afford a decent home there. Disgusting.

    2. avatar Southern Cross says:

      The day after Kalifornia seceeds or declares independence, it will be annexed by Mexico citing prior historical ownership. And then the real fun begins.

  6. avatar 2aguy says:

    This is why we all need to vote republican in the midterms this November…..you don’t have to like Trump, you don’t have to like republicans. All you need to realize is that Trump is the only one, right now, who can appoint actual judges and justices to the federal bench…where all of this crap is going to be decided. If you sit out November, or don’t vote because you don’t like Trump and his tweets or think Republicans suck……then the democrats will win the House, and if they do that they will impeach Trump 30 minutes after the polls close. If that happens, the democrats in the Senate will steam roll Never Trump Republicans, and squish republicans into not allowing any of Trumps nominees to get a vote….since he is under impeachment…..that would mean the 2-3 left wing Justices on the Supreme Court could likely be replaced by a democrat instead of Trump….and that truly will be the end of the 2nd Amendment. And if the democrats take the Senate…it is over as well, since they will refuse to vote on his nominees……I don’t like establishment Republicans, I had hoped to be able to vote for aa 3rd party in the near future….but I have put that on hold to vote for every republican I can vote for to stop the democrats…..they told us directly in the CNN Town Hall, the D.C. March and their pet Supreme Court Justice, that they are going to ban all semi automatic weapons…..and you know, once they get them, they will be back for all the rest……keep this in mind when you say you hate Trump and Republicans…they are the only option right now…

    1. avatar Craig in IA says:

      OK- I’m a registered Republican, primarily because one must declare a party to vote in primaries and the caucuses, and everyone knows about the great Iowa Caucuses for POTUS wannabes…

      It’s great that someone here would advocate voting for Republicans, however, putting them in office is NOT enough. Gun owners, in fact, every citizen should take the time once they are in office to contact these newly-elected or especially the incumbents and keep their feet to the fire. Go to any public hearing that they may hold, contact them personally when ever you can and be sure you send them a “thank you” when they do something that stands up for the country, state, county or municipality they were elected to represent. Do the same with those who you don’t agree with, I suppose meaning all democrats.

      Seriously, if gun owners would continually bombard the leftist office holders with honest, but non-threatening, non-profane, commentary on a regular basis it wouldn’t be too difficult to start demoralizing them. State your case in as short a letter, email, phone call or office visit as possible and stay on point. Don’t try to tie firearms with abortion, taxes, morality, or any of a number of the other causes that constantly appear along side around here. Don’t lump bump stocks with magazines, or black rifles, or proposed ammo bans, etc. One at a time, which provides more opportunities to contact them. Short, sweet, and just the facts. Even if only the 5.6 million NRA members did this every week it’d shock the hell out of lawmakers, city council members, county sherriffs and other elected public “servants”. We need to counter the constand drumbeat from the MSM to these folks. Don’t bother with letters to the editor, although write them, or guest editorials if your paper will publish them. But we don’t need to get the message to the public- just to the elected people.

      We don’t do enough, often times ANY of this sort of thing. Check out the tone of many posters here- many seem to think they already made one contact (often years ago) and it didn’t seem to do any good so they just quit and started bitching to the others in the gun community, which doesn’t require any effort or brains. People here ought to spend as much time writing their elected officials as they spend posting online- you could easily do more to affect the political outcomes that way than you’d ever accomplish around here bitching about the NRA. Or complaining that “no one listens” to you, so you turned off politics and now see the results of being disengaged. The left certainly likes your decision, so do the other pols since you don’t bother putting any heat on them. While Trump seems to be able to take the constant criticism (and fabrications), I doubt many other career politicians could. Put ’em into to the old fetal position.

      1. avatar TheBuckStopsHere says:

        Kudos to you.
        Well thought out and articulated.

        I challenge you and all other TTAG/POTG readers to follow thru.
        I have compiled a RINO list (Fla.) that I am starting with.
        They’re gonna hear from me on a regular basis just as you suggested.
        One topic at a time. Non-confrontational. Over and over.

      2. avatar tmm says:

        I agree. Let ’em hear you. Let ’em hear you again. Keep the course. Remind ’em again they’re going to hear from you. 20 GOTO 10.

    2. avatar Joe Brow says:

      That kind of sheep mentality is what got us all these backstabbing “Republicans” like Trump in office now… He was forced on us by the dumbest 30% of Republican primary voters and people just blindly followed along because “anyone but Hillary,” not realizing he is just as bad. Trillion dollar deficits, attacks on many of our Constitutional rights (not just the 2nd), weakness disguised as political theater on the border, unreadable super laws passed in the dead of night, etc are all being done by Republicans, yet you want to reward them because you think Democrats MIGHT be worse? Do you remember the definition of insanity? And the very fact that so many people fall in line like you do and ask for more slaps to the face makes me believe we deserve what we’re getting…

      1. avatar neiowa says:

        Thanks for sharing. Now what have you done in YOUR state/party Nancy? Come back when you have been involved in the process.

    3. avatar Arandom Dude says:

      I can’t vote Republican, for the House anyway, because my Republican Representative recently deleted the portion of his website that said he supports the 2nd Amendment. I might even vote Democrat to teach him a lesson, but I’ll probably vote Libertarian or write in someone. My vote for the Senate will probably be Republican unless they pick someone who’s completely intolerable.

      1. avatar Craig in IA says:

        Get him to see the error of his ways- read what I wrote above. Voting Libertarian, even Communist won’t have any effect and certainly won’t lead you where you probably would like to end up.

        There are also primaries, so you can get rid of this Republican for a better one. Get involved, get others like you involved. Oh, yeah, that’ll take some time and money, though.

        It takes work to maintain your rights, always did. People today have never lived in a time where they didn’t have them and take these liberties for granted.

      2. avatar Marty says:

        Yup, vote for a demonrat or 3rd party. If that demonrat wins, you are 98% assured you will get an anti gunner. Your rep pulled his pro gun statement from his website. That just means he is pandering to the hot topic today. I doubt he will change his stance on guns, he just doesn’t have the balls to stand up for what he believes. Demonrat= most likely anti gun. Your rep maybe anti gun. Look at his/her voting record. If it is pro gun, vote for him/her. If the record shows an anti gun history, go for someone else. But don’t cut off you nose in spite of your face.

        1. avatar rt66paul says:

          When you don’t have a choice, voting Libertarian is the way to go. If enough people sent that message:
          1. The republican might decide to follow what he really believes in and not just vote lock step with his/her fellow repubs.
          2. The democrat might see some of the light and not vote with his/her fellow libs.
          3. The better party could win a seat at a time and maybe they could bridge the gap and help to keep government smaller.

          When you write that note to your representative, mention the reason you have decided to send a message.

        2. avatar Marty says:

          Yup, I’ve been hearing that for decades and in every single case it’s always ended up a vote for a demonrat.
          Luckily, I live in a very conservative and pro gun state. However, I stay in almost constant contact with the aids by email and personally meet with them on a monthly basis during a local meeting.
          Shouldn’t of said ‘luckily’. I purposely voted with my feet and left the peoples republic of Kalifornia almost 13 years ago.

        3. avatar Cragi in IA says:

          I disagree with voting 3rd party. If there’s an issue, deal with it within the party in the primary process.

          And here is exactly where gun people don’t get it- they HAVE to be involved from the start, even in the nominating process or in the end, all they’ll come up with is a choice of voting for someone else’s candidate. And of course they’ll whine and complain about the idiots (and the NRA) who put the person on the ballot when they themselves did nothing to help decide it.

          In any event, voting 3rd party might make you feel better at the time but will just be a waste, at least at present.

        4. avatar Marty says:

          Totally agree.

      3. avatar neiowa says:

        Arandom Dude – did you call, email, write the varmint for information? Why not?

  7. avatar Rick Bunn says:

    We all know the crime will not increase with the influx of undocumented imagrents, but a lack,of self defense will protect,many of them,from harm.

  8. avatar Jay in Florida says:

    Kalfifornia has to go. And take the 9th Circuit with it.
    They wont be missed.
    None of Commiefornias laws have been to improve or promote safety issues.
    They are just making guns less available to the normal law abiding people of the state.
    Any fool. Even a Kalifornia Commie Congress critter knows stamping wont/doesn’t work. A file is all one needs to change it.
    Dump Kalifornia simple solution for all the rest of us.

  9. avatar Scott says:

    We need to encourage California to secede. Then they can outlaw all guns there, except for those possessed by criminals. They can also have government healthcare for everyone in their new country, open up their borders to immigrants without restrictions or documentation, implement a UBI, etc, And they won’t have Trump as their President. They could even outlaw the Republican party.

    Those of you readers currently residing in California should emigrate. If the democrats do as bad as I expect in the November election, California really may secede.

  10. avatar SwampDaddy says:

    I hope to live long enough to witness the consequences of Californians ignorance. The socialist train is picking up speed!

  11. avatar Scott says:

    TO THE MANAGEMENT AT TTAG:

    By now it is obvious the world needs a rightwing social media platform to be the counterpart to Facebook. I spend several hours a day on my computer (HP tower, lots of RAM, storage, USB ports, 24″ screen, etc.), and I’ve written countless computer programs in many languages since 1971. But I’ve never been on any social media because most of my computer use is actual work not play. But I read most of the TTAG articles, and that sort of functions as rightwing social media.

    There would seem to be a market niche for rightwing social media. And it could censor the leftists the same way that Facebook censors rightwingers. Such a site could be valuable to advertisers
    because we have much more disposable income that the heavily-indebted millennials working part-time at Starbucks.

    Maybe you could start such a platform.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      FreedomPage.

      No, that just won’t, work. Facebook exists because it’s a cash cow. For FreedomPage to be acceptable for use, it would have to not collect data on users, connect them in *any* way to other users, etc.

      There’s little way a FreedomPage could make a buck to keep the lights on and servers humming…

    2. avatar rt66paul says:

      Censoring anyone on a political forum is not supporting freedom. Using those tactics make you as bad or worse(since you should know better) than they are.

    3. avatar Reginald Veljohnson says:

      вы будете соблюдать, иначе

  12. avatar BLAMMO says:

    How is that different from prohibiting modern, ergonomic design features for state-of-the-art rifles, like a pistol grip, adjustable stock, muzzle brake, compensator, fore grip, etc., that have no effect on the fundamental operation of the rifle? Why are law-abiding gun owners in some states limited to rifle deigns from the early 20th century?

  13. avatar Helms Deep says:

    Every time they say ……. ” common sense reforms + safety ” … they mean confiscation , we MUST call them out every time they try to float that shit.

    If you let enemy define terms …… You’re LOSING !

  14. avatar Aaron M. Walker says:

    So when the bloody are we all going to stand up to this authoritarianism that’s encompassing our once great nation!?!? One day folks, your all going to wake up to bunch of a–whole SJW Red Guard dragging you out of your homes! Curiosity of our once elected officials, the DemoCommies, and maybe some RINOs…Then what?!?!? [email protected] supporters defeated by a bunch of tide pod eating, and pot smoking 🚬 high school kids that have been sponsored by the teachers Union…And The DNC….Anti-2nd @ forces…Is this how we kiss the U.S. Constitution-Bill of Rights good bye….As we watch our Liberties sail away in the night…

  15. avatar daveinwyo says:

    WANTED: Partners/funding to organize blockade runners. Must have spec-ops experience, all branches. Valid ID and BC required. Must have PD weapons.

  16. avatar Behindenemylines says:

    The CA microstamping law is worse than you think. It requires 2 stamps placed on the casing in different areas. Does the firing camp count? Will a CA regulatory body change the meaning at any time?

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      Worse? This requirement makes it more difficult to create complying technology, and that is supposed to be a good thing. The problem was that the AG Kamala Harris “certified” that the technology needed to comply with the statute existed, relying on an experimental technology that stamps the primer (and therefore does NOT comply with the statutory requirements). Once that certification was made, all “new” pistols (not revolvers) or any materially altered pistols currently for sale were required to incorporate this nonexistent and noncomplying technology.

      but all is not lost. The NSSF case challenging the certification was heard in the California Supreme court on April 4, and a decision should issue within a few months. The State, recognizing that the certification cannot be defended on technological grounds, is now arguing that the statute is a “technology forcing” statute, and that the State can legitimately ban pistols that do not comply with the standard contained in the statute. This is a truly bogus argument as it ignores the framing of the statute. But we will see.

  17. avatar Chip in Florida says:

    Did anyone ever figure out how microstamping rounds used in a revolver is in anyway helpful to the Police/Government?

    1. avatar Marty says:

      Only if the crook has to reload and doesn’t pocket the empties. Otherwise it’s useless for the most part.

    2. avatar Craig in IA says:

      Hey- we got back to the original article…

      Microstamping is merely another in a long line of regulations and bureaucratic red tape aimed at making things so difficult for citizens, or in this case, manufacturers, that they’ll eventually just give up trying to keep complying. All the microstamping of ammo, or markings on extractors, firing pin and bolt faces, etc., will have no impact on some cretin grabbing a gun and willingly killing, robbing, raping, or in any manner causing harm to another individual, let alone large groups of people. Wouldn’t it have been neat for the Vegas cops and FBI to have to sort through all of Padock’s spent ammo, matching it to each rifle? What good would it possibly have accomplished other than adding to the work of the poor grunt cops? (BTW- isn’t it still interesting how little anyone really knows about that fiasco, months later? Took about 20 minutes to ID the Tsarnaev boys and they didn’t have a weapon or shell casings, nor ballistic eveidence. Pretty quiet out there, wonder what kind of meds that poor Clarke Co sherriff is taking after the FBI reined him in?)

    3. avatar Mark N. says:

      The California microstamping rule does not apply to revolvers. That help?

  18. avatar former water walker says:

    No one “running” Commiefornia cares if it gets fixed. With the lunatic Persian thing wrecking havoc look for more infringement. Like a legally bought gun just like in Floriduh…oh and I’m not TTAG management but you won’t get anywhere with “right-wing media” Scott. SEE:Stormfront…

    1. avatar RogueVal says:

      So Stormfront is right wing? National Socialism isn’t right wing. Like, at all.

  19. avatar Ralph says:

    Next thing ya know, the geniuses in CA will require micro-stamping coffee, which in their opinion causes cancer.

    1. avatar dlj95118 (soon to be 83544) says:

      …and black licorice!

  20. avatar Mort says:

    Ummm…

    Maybe I am just dumb about how microstamping works, but it seems to me that even if firearms were sold with a microstamper… the second I got my firearm home I would order a replacement firing pin or striker that is normal. Probably a new barrel, too… knowing the manufacturer has “registered” this gun with the Great State Uber Alles with a sample casing and projectile.

    So, how is this idiocy even enforcable? Or even, what’s to say I don’t just twirl the pin or stiker on a file a few times?

    Like I said, maybe I’m dumb… but I just don’t see how this relates to “safety” at all. I guess my grand vision for controlling humanity’s every fleeting breath is just not as comprehensive as Bay Area tyrants…

    (Or, like the article said– maybe the tech is not the point. Maybe it’s just to grind the proliferation of legal arms to a halt.)

    Be safe… shoot lots.

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      The Great State of California does not register bullets. But they’ve thought about it, despite the failure of the two bullet registries on the East Coast. As to the rest, most of us recognize that weakness of the law, and the fact that there are multiple ways of defeating microstamping, the cheapest of which is (under available technology) filing the end of the firing pin to remove the stamp, or populating a crime scene with casings picked up at any gun range, or, as was done in a movie I watched, putting the pistol in a large plastic bag to catch the empties.

  21. avatar ironicatbest says:

    It seems to me a gun company could make some money in Cali if they just did the micro stamp and other can’t haves Cali wants. The gun company’s should flood Cali’s market instead of not selling there. Logically by not selling to California they are part of the gun ban

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      Several business flaws in the proposed solution: 1) microstamping technology that stamps a casing in two places does not exist; 2) it is anticipated that the cost of manufacturing a handgun that did do as the statute requires would be very expensive, as would be the resulting pistol; and 3) there are close to 800 handguns still on the Roster (true most are revolvers) that are still legal for sale

  22. avatar Kyle in Upstate NY says:

    You folks saying “Duh!” this guy is not talking to you, he is talking to the people who don’t know any better who read publications like the LA Times.

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      True. A bill has been filed to remove the requirement, and it will be a hard sell to get it past the Democratic dominated Public Safety committee, the place where pro-gun bills fo to die.

  23. avatar Jim Bullock says:

    “Because of California’s law requiring new gun models to use microstamping, no gun manufacturer has introduced a new handgun model to our state since 2013. That means handguns with the latest and most reliable technology are not available to California’s law-abiding gun owners.

    “That is exactly what anti-gun legislators wanted when they passed the law.”

    Sounds like a “stealth disarmament” lawsuit there. /sarc The NRAs all over this, right?

  24. avatar james says:

    If the bad guys collect their brass or swap out the firing pins, the stamping is MOOT.

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