The heartbreak of an older carry gun . . . My Carry Gun Is Outdated and Weird – “For the last few months, I’ve actually been carrying a Smith & Wesson 3953. These were discontinued several years ago along with all the rest of the old Smith & Wesson metal-framed semi-autos. Unlike most of those guns, this one is double action only instead of double action/single action. It’s a compact single stack 9mm with an 8-round magazine. This gun is almost the same size and weight as the PX4 but it holds about half as much ammo. So it would be fair to ask why I’m carrying something outdated like this when there are other options that are obviously so much better.”

Piss poor hiring practices cost The Mistake by the Lake big time (not to mention the life of a child) . . . Cleveland Cop Who Killed Tamir Rice Fired – “The police officer who shot and killed Tamir Rice was fired Tuesday for failing to disclose that he had been forced out of another department before Cleveland hired him, while his partner was suspended for driving too close to the 12-year-old seconds before the boy was killed. Tamir, who was black, was shot outside a recreation center in November 2014 as he held a pellet gun that the white officers mistook for a real firearm. The killing became part of a national outcry about police violence against black boys and men. The officers weren’t charged criminally, but Tamir’s mother settled a federal civil rights lawsuit with the city for $6 million.”

It’s (almost) never too early to learn . . . 10-year-old youngest to train at Las Vegas Gunfights – “Ethan Sanchez is the youngest client in the history of the Las Vegas Gunfights. For some, it might be uncomfortable to watch Ethan shoot and even tackle his own dad. ‘When he was little I never imagined that he would be shooting at me. I don’t think any dad ever thinks that you’re going to be shot at, but I like seeing his intensity and his discipline,’ said Fernando Sanchez, Ethan’s father. You don’t see fear in Ethan’s eyes. Actually, it’s the opposite.”

Avoiding another Berkeley . . . Oregon Republican: Hey, If The Police Won’t Protect Free Speech, We’ll Use Private Militia – “Following the deplorable attack in Portland, Oregon where two men were stabbed to death confronting a white supremacist, Mayor Ted Wheeler (D) said that he wanted a pro-Trump free speech rally canceled, fearing that the rally would foment the same type of hatred espoused by the murderous thug a few days ago. As of today, the rally still has a federal permit; it is scheduled for this coming Saturday. In fear that the police might not provide security for the free speech rally, Multnomah County Republican Party Chairman James Buchal said that he might rely on private militias and security to protect the rallygoers.”

Wonder if we’ll hear any more on this . . . Police: Physician arrested at Trump hotel in DC with 2 guns – “‘I was very concerned about this circumstance,’ DC Metropolitan Police Department Chief Peter) Newsham said, ‘and I believe the officers and our federal partners, and in particular the tipster, averted a potential disaster here in our nation’s capital.’ A police report said authorities saw a firearm “in plain view” in Moles’ vehicle and found another inside the glove compartment. Police seized a Glock 23 pistol, a Bushmaster assault-style rifle and 90 rounds of ammunition.”

The big difference: the RKBA is an enumerated civil right . .What Gun Control and Refugee Admissions Policies Have in Common – “If we knew for sure in advance who would use guns to commit crimes, then we could tailor policies to disarm only those individuals. But we don’t, and we can’t. We can probabilistically identify some people with traits who are more likely to use guns for criminal violence relative to others. Denying guns to felons convicted of violent crimes in the past, for example, seems to be a wise policy, as is denying them to people with manifest psychological traits that put them at obvious risk to themselves or others. But even then, people without these traits, or at least without manifest or sufficient evidence of these traits, will use guns to commit violent crimes. So broadly aimed gun-control policies seek to reduce the number of guns in the population overall.”

This operation went completely TU . . .  Bounty Hunters, Fugitive Dead After Shootout At Texas Car Dealership – “The dealership owner said the men, now known to be Bernal and Garcia, waited at the for several hours for the woman and Hutchison to arrive. When Hutchison walked in the pair again made claims that they were federal agents and attempted to arrest him. The shootout between the trio began when Hutchison resisted, pulled out a gun and started firing. Ford said, “I’ve been told that the two gentleman approached him with handcuffs and were going to try to arrest him and that’s when the shooting started.”  The Minnesota-based bounty hunting company had better be heavily insured.

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78 Responses to Vedder Holsters Daily Digest: Outdated Guns, HR in Cleveland and an Armed Doc in DC

  1. If the old gun is fully functional and reliable why not carry it? I have a makarov which is a slick carrying piece. Some of us actually like all metal guns.

    • And the S&W metal-frame pistols derived from the 39 and 59 are some of the most durable semi-autos out there. Quality construction, several safeties, very reliable.

      • My only real gripe with the Smith autos is the price of the replacement magazines. I’m pretty much done buying guns, I got more than I’ll ever use, but if I see one of those dao single stack smiths, I’ll buy it.

        And another sks. I miss my sks. And maybe another hunting shotgun. But then I’m done, for sure.

    • I like those old smiths. A friend has a 908 and it’s only slightly larger and heavier than our LC9s but it’s very shootable. (Not that the LC9 isn’t shootable) I’m not a fan of the backwards safety though. A DAO version would make a great carry gun.

    • I carry a 6906, fine firearm that i am very comfortable with and I actually prefer the extra weight. It gives me a aenae of comfort knowing and reminds me that it’s always there.

      It’s also the only handgun I own but I digress.

      • No, Nine, I think you nailed it with your last sentence.
        Not everyone can afford a safe full of guns to accessorize our outfits.
        The only gun you own may have been affordable years ago when you bought it and life hasn’t given you a chance yet to upgrade. Or it was an heirloom and has sentimental value. Or you simply like it. As long as it works and you’re dedicated to carrying it, its no one’s place to judge.
        That said, I too liked the Second Generation Smiths, they’re good guns and their durability means being able to find a used one in good shape today. I wouldn’t mind a nice 1006 myself but even used ones sell for more than my thin wallet will allow these days.

    • Been carrying my old Smith 6906 for a couple decades. Its easy to shoot, easy to clean, easy to conceal. Before this one I had a 59 and a 39; wish I still had them both.

    • Not to mention that the silver and black Smith mentioned is just basically a gorgeous piece. Almost BBQ gun worthy, IMO. Classic, none the less.

    • I carry one of my P225s when doing certain activities. It is damn near as big as my P226, and is heavier than any of my double-stack Glocks/M&Ps.

  2. Just reported the hotel dude wanted to kill Trump-and not “symbolically ” like the griffin idiot. That he wanted to be “Timothy McVeigh”…physician do no harm?

      • Right? If they died, and no one cared, why would I click on it? Most likely I won’t care either, so I wouldn’t investigate further. Shame that the ads are just obvious click bait garbage.

      • In my travels on the Internet, virtually all sites that have advertisements yield a horrific experience. First of all, they try to display as many as 24 advertisements. Second, the advertisements are trashy. Third, the advertisements are inefficient and cause sites to take anywhere from four to ten times longer to load. And then there are those ads that have embedded hijacks or malware.

        I would galdly tolerate advertisements in this manner:
        (1) Two ads at the top and bottom of a landing page.
        (2) Quality ads for classy products or services.
        (3) Efficient ads that are nothing more than an embedded photo and hyperlink to more information about the product/service. And the photo better be .jpeg or .gif format with an appropriate resolution for the actual space (in pixels) that it would occupy on screen.

        It seems to me that EVERYONE would come out ahead with such a scheme.

        • Or (if you have Firefox) go to Tools, Add-Ons, and find and download Adblocker Plus for free.

          I see one ad on this site – the NRA ad towards the top. That’s the only one.

        • As Pappy used to say when I asked him for something I was very unlikely to get, “People in Hell want ice water, too.”

        • “Or (if you have Firefox) go to Tools, Add-Ons, and find and download Adblocker Plus for free.”

          Did you mean Adblock Plus?

      • I second this. I REALLY didn’t want to install AdBlock because I understand why people advertise on their sites. But the pop-ups and stupid ads on TTAG were so bad for so long that it was either install AdBlock or quit TTAG.

        Now there are no ads so that’s a plus. No pop-ups either. All is well.

        • I browse most of the Web using Mozilla Firefox, but I use Google Chrome to come to TTAG. I have Adblock Plus installed for Chrome but not for Firefox, and that setup lets me read TTAG in peace while still seeing most of the rest of the Web using Firefox.

  3. I like the DAO pistols of smith and beretta.

    Easy to carry and hit something with them.

    Why not carry it. Just a little bigger and heavier than my Glock 43.

  4. Again, how are bounty hunters still a thing? Did Boba Fett getting tossed into the Sarlacc not turn everybody off to the idea? Not to mention that getting into gunfights for cash rewards has to be basically un-insurable in 2017.

    • Boba falling into the Sarlacc happed a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. I think those lessons may have been forgotten.

    • Literally millions of outstanding warrants and nowhere near enough cops/US marshals to hunt them all down……..

    • Well, the bail bonds folks want their forfeited money back and are willing to pay to get some of it back. There are always people who will do things for money if the price is right. These hunters didn’t seem to do their homework on the fugitive and assumed an easy catch.

    • I’m of the opinion that there should be more bounty hunters & that their duties should be expanded to encompass all types of crime enforcement since the police do such a piss-poor job.

      • Bossk – Now think about that for a minute. Who do bounty hunters go after these days? The criminals that the police have ALREADY arrested and the COURTS have released on bond. But it’s the cops who are doing a piss-poor job?

        • ” The criminals that the police have ALREADY arrested and the COURTS have released on bond. But it’s the cops who are doing a piss-poor job?”

          Yes. I have seen, in my years, a lot of publicity pieces on the local police doing a mass warrant arrest project, finding and arresting a LOT of people who have active warrants.
          The idea is to show that the police are doing a great job of keeping us safe, but actually shows that the police don’t do this enough, except to put on a great show that the media eats up.
          Why are all those people out there with active warrants? Why are they so easy to find in one or two days?

          Connected to this, anti-gunners, who are so interested in public safety, don’t do a damn thing to support and expand the local police forces, which would actually make us safer, reduce response times, and arrest more of these criminals with active warrants.

        • When I was a rookie cop (more than just a few decades ago) we would serve warrants in the wee small hours of the morning after things had settled down on the street and call volume dropped off to where we could do something besides run from one call to the next. Tactically, it was a good move because it was after the bars had closed at 2 AM and we could catch the miscreants while they were sound asleep (or passed out) and have them handcuffed before they knew what was happening. Unfortunately, the powers-that-be decided that the tactic too much resembled those of the Gestapo and put the kibosh on our warrant service. After that, it was mostly making contact with someone, doing the LAPD “wants and warrants” thing, and sometimes getting a hit.

  5. Old?? sometimes I carry an H&R 732 w/ 2 in. barrel. Small, light. 6 shots. Not a lot, just enough.

  6. Leave it to an academic to make an argument so complicated and convoluted that by the time you’re finished reading his screed, you are left wondering what his original premise was It’s nice that the author is so enamored of a 16th-17th Century Dutch philosopher but as such, Grotius was hardly one of the American Founding Fathers, being neither one of their contemporaries nor understanding the experiment in democracy which made and to some extent still makes the United States of America unique in the history of civil governance. Furthermore, to belabor the Fourteenth Amendment while virtually ignoring the Second is something which will doom any supposedly thoughtful screed dealing with American firearms rights. “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” There it is. Wrap your head around that and then write your commentary, sir.

  7. Back on May 17th TTAG published this link:
    “Patty Mayo. The Next Dog the Bounty Hunter? ”

    As I commented then, the BH in question demonstrated extremely poor decision making abilities which endangered innocents on private property and the two Bozos in today’s story did the same. They got their man and he got them.

    • The Greenville BH story has got Forrest Gump’s mom all over it…
      “Stupid is as stupid does.”

      Thank you Mrs. Gump.

    • I would suggest that most, perhaps all, bounty hunters exhibit poor decision-making abilities – after all, they made the decision to become bounty hunters.

    • The thing is, when BH are smart and doing the right thing you never hear of them. It’s almost an axiom that a famous (to the public) BH is an idiot and a hot dog.

      Also, if anyone said I might be the next Dog BH I’d change my hair, my clothes, wife, employees, profession and gender. Really just anything to avoid that.

  8. Poor little Tamir. He should have been run over with the car, hosed down with pepper spray, and then fried with a Taser until crispy instead.

  9. I am a little confused. Wouldn’t a DAO pistol be single action? There is only a single way to fire it, not two or double. Can someone please explain?

    • Single action meaning that pulling the trigger only releases the hammer and fires the gun.

      Double action cocks then releases the hammer to fire the gun, much like how a revolvers cylinder will turn and hammer will move.

      Double action is heavier due to the amount of things that trigger pull is doing while single action is lighter for the same reason but in reverse, it isn’t doing much so it is lighter. Someone morr technically inclined can explain in greater detail but that is the gist of it.

    • Semi-automatic pistols come as DAO or DA/SA, or just S/A for the first round in which the hammer must be cocked either manually or by racking the slide before firing the first round, after which the slide movement automatically cocks the hammer to fire the next round. A DAO means that the hammer does not cock after each shot and you must pull through the entire trigger squeeze in order to make the hammer move back to where it releases from the sear with sufficient force to propel the firing pin into the primer of the cartridge and make it fire. With a DA/SA, you may leave the hammer down on the first round and then fire it without first cocking the hammer, i.e., just by pulling the trigger. The rest of the magazine is then fired with the hammer cocked for the next shot by the action of the slide.

      Is it still clear as mud?

    • The action refers to the work of the trigger.
      Single action means the trigger does only the work of releasing the hammer.
      Double action means the trigger must both cock the hammer and release it.

  10. outdated and weird. like many other facets of inconspicuous consumption in my world. including myself. those discontinued smith’s seem nice, the slide mounted safety (that goes up…) might force some dao upon me.

    and i’m surprised to learn that “probabilistically” is a word. i thought for sure that was a poorly spelled ballistics joke.

  11. Oregon’s republican chairman is both commendable and prescient in his decision to consider (and hopefully utilize) armed Citizen Militia to fill security roles. I’d hope there was a way to deputize and indemnify them, as well. I’ve been calling on President Trump for months now, to do something similar. He should authorize the use of Citizen Militias to round up illegal immigrants and offer a $10,000 bounty for each one delivered SAFELY to a deportation processing center. With an average cost of $75,000 per year (between welfare, food stamps, section 8 housing, medical and education), the cost savings to American taxpayers will be tremendous. There are an estimated 30 million illegal aliens currently undermining our national sovereignty. My plan utilizing the Citizen Militia ends the existential threat these invaders pose to our Constitutional Republic.

      • $10K for each that is brought in SAFELY. So, if I capture 8 and only 3 make it there, that’s $30K. Likely that’s the calculation some Boba-Fett wannabes would make.

        • And if you make a mistake and bring in (safely, of course) someone who isn’t an illegal, there goes the profit motive, as well as your freedom. Kidnapping charges suck.

    • BSofL,
      Might be better if we didn’t deport the illegals. Use them to build the wall! First offense, 30 days on the wall, second, 6 months on the wall, third offense, you stay on the wall until finished!

      • It’s simply a way to stimulate the economy in derby fashion. With 300 trillion in bounties available. Conversely, it’s costing significantly more EACH year (based on the $75k per year average) to supply an American lifestyle to these criminal insurgents. Ultimately, after the country undergoes a cleansing, those savings can be directed towards our failing cities, as long as it’s done under the direction of constitutionalists.

        • 1) Check your math. 30 million times 10 thousand is what?

          2) Where did you get that $75K per year number?

        • Yeah 300 Billion. Good catch. Anyway- the $75K is the number I’ve heard for years. Give it a google.

  12. Sorry guys, but if the officer that shot Rice isn’t good enough, you better fire most of the cops currently working; because put into that same situation, that’s probably about how many would act the same when confronted with someone pulling a gun on them- i.e. recognizing it as a deadly threat.

    (incidentally, I have more of a problem with the officer driving- he is the one that drove right up on a threat and pushed this incident into immediate confrontation)

    • Hannibal – You get an “Amen, brother!” from this old street cop. The call was dispatched as “man w/a gun” and I’ll bet you a dollar to a doughnut that the driver didn’t see a “man” around and went over to the kid to ask him if he’d seen anything when the kid made the fatal mistake of pulling out the authentic-looking replica and scared the crap out of both cops.

      • You left out the part about the police dispatcher not telling the responding car that the caller reported the gun as “probably fake” and the man as most likely a “juvenile”

        He was shot in less than 2 secs and would have had zero chance to respond to any officer commands. The cop who shot him should never had been hired had the Cleveland PD done the most basic of pre-employment screening. He was fired from his last PD for being “weepy” on the firing range and an “inability to emotionally function.”

        • So….. What is the magic time limit to wait for a armed suspect to respond? As for firing somebody over a job application error? That is weak. It is a cheap excuse to make the anti cop crowd happy.

        • Caller likely thought it “probably fake” because most people don’t think tweens or teens carry real guns. A responding officer with any experience dealing with gangs likely has experience with such young gun-slingers.

        • ” . . .He was fired from his last PD for being “weepy” on the firing range and an “inability to emotionally function.”

          Actually, the guy had an emotional melt-down during his firing-range evaluation. The Sargent of the small-town PD was so appalled at the guy’s behavior that he wrote him up as being to unstable to be a cop. Then he got hired at the Cleveland PD.

    • “I have more of a problem with the officer driving”

      I said the same thing at the time. The driver put his partner in an absolutely terrible position, with no time to assess or take any action other than to shoot.

    • I agree. Everyone criticized the officer who shot Tamir. He was put in an untenable position by the officer who drove the car. It was also my understanding that the driver was his Field Training Officer, which makes what happened even worse.

  13. The third generation Smiths were pretty groundbreaking.Smith was producing small,concealable,single stack handguns when the market was pretty small for them. My first carry pistol was a S&W 3913, and at the time I think only Smith and SIG were producing anything in that category.

  14. When Hutchison walked in the pair again made claims that they were federal agents

    Good gravy, who trained these guys? I’m guessing some campus or other of Greybar College?

  15. I’m wondering if they said they were ‘Fugitive Recovery Agents’, which they are, and the witness processed that as ‘Federal Agents’?

    I wouldn’t put anything past a BH, but committing a felony without reason in front of witnesses seems less likely than a misunderstanding.

    • I can say I’m a federal agent. I can’t say I’m an FBI Agent, or a Federal Marshal. There’s a purple and green truck makes deliveries to me every day, and the driver is a federal agent – a person representing FedEx.
      “Federal agent” means nothing.

      • ““Federal agent” means nothing.”

        You’d make a great Obama federal judge.
        If you are approached by an FBI agent who has his gun aimed at you, and he declares himself to be a federal agent, will you argue the point with him?
        I didn’t think so.

    • According to local news reports, they identified themselves as Feds to both the dealership manager and a receptionist before the confrontation. Also, one of the deceased is the owner of the bounty hunting company, so any law suits are going to end up in a big old probate clown cluster.

  16. Nothing wrong with metal Smith autos. Good deals used considering materials and quality.

    But a basic needs user can get new polymer like an M&P for less and to an entheusiast it’s like a Volvo to a car entheusiast, nice but not breathtaking. So kind of a red-headed stepchild.

  17. Democratic mayors seeking to impede “right wing” speech seems to be a thing these days. First it was the Bezerkely mayor, who refused to protect marchers from AntiFas, and now the same has happened in Portland, where there were plenty of police when the AntiFa join marches, but other parades are canceled when the AntiFa threaten death and destruction if the Republicans march. This same mayor tried to get the feds to cancel the permit for the upcoming event, which of course would be a First Amendment violation, and failing that, he basically threatened to pull all police protection if the rally were to occur, knowing that there would be a counterprotest with potential if not probable violent action. The Republican Party should sue his ass.

  18. Old guns – does an Officers Model 1911 count? Back in the day I carried a Model 39 Smith and regret selling it – even though it went to a friend’s son who lived in a bad neighborhood because he was starting out and that was all he could afford. Another friend carried a Colt 1903 .380 auto that he inherited from his banker father – a very elegant pistol that would do whatever you asked of it. I’ve carried a Smith 640 and a Charter Arms .44 special Bulldog because I like wheel guns – five or six for sure and nothing to go wrong. I started with the sheriff in 1992 carrying a 4″ Smith 686. I’ve moved on to an automatic but I will never sell that old Smith – and if for some reason I ever had to go back to that revolver as a duty pistol I wouldn’t feel poorly armed.

  19. The article on gun rights versus immigration does not consider what governments have done to their people once they are disarmed. Mr. Rodgers will get a lesson soon when Venezuela goes over the line.

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