New From Standard Manufacturing: S333 Volleyfire

The S333 Volleyfire from Standard Manufacturing, the company bringing us the DP-12 Double Barrel Pump Shotgun, fires two shots with each pull of the trigger. That’s a handy feature for a gun chambered in the anemic .25 ACP. Of course, as far as I understand it, that makes this 6-barrel pepperbox a machine gun in the eyes of the .gov. Standard says otherwise…

The Feds define a “machine gun” as:

[A]ny weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manually reloading, by a single function of the trigger.

Standard said that because it’s two rounds at the same time rather than sequentially, it isn’t a machine gun. I suppose I’ve never thought of that, and am happy to sit back and wait to see how things progress with the S-333.

comments

  1. avatar Dane says:

    Yes I’m sure it’s very “invoative”. Hope they design better than they spell!

    1. avatar strych9 says:

      The spelling is innovative.

      1. avatar Dwi23 says:

        Invoative, its like innovative only better!

      2. avatar Joe R. says:

        And the color smells nice.

        If you add double-tap ammo is that four shots per trigger pull?

        If you’re going to sling a derringer style pistol greater capacity isn’t bad, but if you use twice the capacity in the same amount of aim-shoot sequences is that a plus?

        1. avatar Vhyrus says:

          You’ve got the wrong perspective. If you fire 2 .25s at once, it’s like shooting a .50 cal!

        2. avatar Joe R. says:

          whoa, quiet man, you’ve drifted back near the NFA.

    2. avatar Tim says:

      It’s a future ‘forgotten weapon’.

  2. avatar Joe Liberty says:

    If u dont get your ass to the cz/cz custom booth, I swear to god I’m going to freak out

    1. avatar JasonM says:

      I’m sure Jeremy S. has been there from open to close every day.

      But I would appreciate some details on P-10 C ship dates.

      1. avatar Jeremy S. says:

        LOL. I did go there yesterday morning but haven’t had a chance to write it up yet. That’ll be the next post I put together after a couple events tonight and it’ll run tomorrow.

  3. avatar Rich K. says:

    I’d be more interested if it wasn’t chambered for such a weenie cartridge. I have read accounts of thugs who were shot with .25 ACP guns, walked to the ER, and had the bullets simply picked out of their chest muscles. Honestly how much more bulk would it have if it was chambered in .32 ACP, or .32 H&R, or .327 magnum (OUCH!)?

    1. avatar Bugman says:

      Rich you are right on with the .32’s. Cylinder recessed for moon clips. .327 would definitely hurt….but,that doesn’t mean I don’t want to do it!

      1. avatar Rich K. says:

        Wouldn’t even need moon clips for .32 ACP – it’s a semi-rimmed round, just like the .25 ACP.

        1. avatar Bugman says:

          Had to look that one up, I’ve never owned a .25 or .32 but have had the immense pleasure of shooting a buddies .327. Impressive! Good call Mr K.

    2. avatar Stu in AZ says:

      What they really need is a .22lr model that fires all 6 at once. Or maybe fit a 7th barrel in the middle. I’d absolutely buy one in a heartbeat. Then design a speed loader!

      1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        Oh, now you are on to something. Six rounds of .22 LR hitting an attacker all at once would make for a really bad day for that attacker.

        And for the love of Pete, make the barrels an inch longer so that the bullets leave the muzzle with some decent velocity.

        1. avatar dc says:

          wow, wouldn’t it just be simpler to have a .410 gauge derringer loaded with buckshot?

    3. avatar TruthTellers says:

      Agreed and on top of that .25 ACP is not as common as .32 ACP comparitively speaking. Sure, it’s in my Walmart right next to .32 ACP, but it costs the same as .32 does, which don’t make sense when it requires less raw materials to manufacture.

      1. avatar Button Gwinnett says:

        Raw materials are rarely the driver of COGS. It’s usually capital investment and labor.

      2. avatar Curtis in IL says:

        You’ll pay more for 16 or 20 gauge shotgun shells than 12 gauge.
        You’ll pay more for .380 Auto than for 9mm.

        It’s all about volume, man.

  4. avatar Dave Lewis says:

    Two rounds of .25 acp means that the bad guy might actually notice it – and this is from a guy who carried a Beretta 21A as a back up many years ago when we didn’t have anything better or know any better. I still have the Beretta and about 100 rounds of .25 ammo but I haven’t shot it in at least 10 years. ATF issues aside, it looks like a lot of gun for not much effect.

  5. avatar JDC says:

    What’s the point. Get something like a Kahr CM9 or CM40. One shot from those will be more than two .25’s. Probably easier to conceal and more accurate, also.

  6. avatar strych9 says:

    Cool throwback to the late 1400’s or, well if we’re talking about ones that were actually kinda nice the mid 1700’s.

    Too bad it doesn’t have the option to fire all the chambers at the same time.

    1. avatar TexTed says:

      That was my first thought. I mean — two shots of .25, meh. Six shots of .25? That’s a bit like a shotgun blast of, well, #4 buck. So it would probably still suck, but — eh, forget it, five .000 pellets from a Judge would probably still beat it. And you can have five shells loaded so if you miss, you can keep shooting, whereas with this it’d be one shot and it’s over. And the collected recoil of six .25 shots might add up to some suck too.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        When it comes to recoil on belly guns I tend not to worry about it. Sure the recoil might suck but the projectiles hitting the other guy will hurt him worse than the recoil hurts you.

  7. avatar adverse4 says:

    Why?

    1. avatar TexTed says:

      No answer, but — at least it’s not yet another AR or 1911!

    2. avatar bLoving says:

      I can think of several demographics this is a solution for: amputees, arthritics, the elderly or anyone else very recoil-sensitive or simply unable to use a “normal” handgun. The correct answer to their problem should never be “Sry, sux 2 B U, LOL”. Nice to know there is an alternative, I think I could sell this thing occasionally.

  8. avatar Nanashi says:

    So why not 380? Cheaper, more common and better defensive ammo choices.

  9. avatar Lost Down South says:

    “Of course, as far as I understand it, that makes this 6-barrel pepperbox a machine gun in the eyes of the .gov. ”

    From my eyes, it’s not a whole lotta different from the Arsenal AF2011-A1 Double Barrel .45ACP

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/06/jon-wayne-taylor/gun-review-arsenal-af2011-a1-double-barrel-45acp/

    1. avatar NorincoJay says:

      You beat me to it.

    2. avatar Amanofdragons says:

      The difference is the 1911 has two triggers. That was their work around. In the beginning it had just one, but the atf ruled it a machine gun. So they designed it with two triggers. That’s Why that double barrel ar15 never made it to market. It was ruled a machine gun.

      There is no mention of a volley gun anywhere in the laws.

      1. avatar RocketScientist says:

        ATF has addressed volley guns (guns firing multiple projectiles from multiple barrels with single trigger pull) several times. They are NOT machine guns and NOT under NFA.

        http://imgur.com/a/vt2Qz

        Question/Answer # 16

  10. avatar VerendusAudeo says:

    I would want to buy one if they had chambered it in .22 WMR. I would buy the hell out of that gun. But .25 ACP? That’s the gun you use if you want your target to live.

    1. avatar Jon in CO says:

      This. I’m a buyer in 22lr even. 22 mag or 17hmr, sign me up.

  11. avatar knightofbob says:

    I’ve read several times that the COP derringer modified for Blade Runner is legally registered as a machine gun for the very reasons mentioned here. Don’t know if it’s true or not, but I’ve seen it mentioned in more than one place. The Arsenal double 1911 apparently gets a pass because it has two separate triggers.

    1. avatar RocketScientist says:

      ATF has addressed volley guns (guns firing multiple projectiles from multiple barrels with single trigger pull) several times. They are NOT machine guns and NOT under NFA.

      http://imgur.com/a/vt2Qz

      Question/Answer # 16

      1. avatar knightofbob says:

        I have not found “several times” the ATF addressed this, I have found several forums where people have linked to the exact same image file you did. It’s a place to start, but it is just a (going on four-year-old) opinion from a single agent at a single branch office. It is not binding and certainly not gospel, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

        Even if that was the opinion at the top level at the time, the agency has been known to change their official stance on definitions before (remember when it was officially legal to shoulder a Sig brace?) I would instead rely on the definition of a machine gun as written in the actual law, which would seem to include this.

  12. avatar former water walker says:

    Saw this on Jeff Quinn’s site. ODD to say the least. An uncommon caliber that’s not even as good as a hot 22. And doesn’t expand either. At least he’s trying with his DP shotgun…

  13. avatar NorincoJay says:

    So three pulls of the trigger than you’re done. Still neat and something different.

  14. avatar Ozzallos says:

    Overemphasis on caliber here. Yes [insertyourcaliberhere] would be nice, but if you’re carrying this, it’s probably as a “get the f*ck off me” me gun and I doubt most badguys are going to stick around wondering what caliber you had chambered. “Oh, wait! That’s just 25acp! Ha, you really had me going there for a moment.”

    I know, I know… But the entire world isn’t made up of hopped up drug users that don’t feel pain.

    1. avatar Tile floor says:

      Ehhh you don’t need to be a hopped up drug user to have your adrenaline do some pretty impressive things.

      Overall I think the whole thing is pretty stupid regardless of caliber. Just carry a single stack .380 or 9×19 for christs sake

    2. avatar Button Gwinnett says:

      Even a hopped up drug user is going to feel it when you shoot him in the face, and this gun is only good for close in work, so…

  15. avatar Ralph says:

    But it comes in colors!

  16. avatar JSF001 says:

    I can’t figure out the logic of choosing to make it in .25 ACP. If it’s for plinking/novelty .25 ACP is pretty rare these days, so .22 makes more sense. If it’s for self defense you would at least want a .32 ACP which with two shots might make it worth it, while keeping the over all size close to the same. .22 Mag would be another better choice. Next what market is this intended for. Twin shots are not great for plinking, while its pretty bulky for self defense compared to a small 6 shot semi auto or revolver of the same caliber. Now If the price was around $100 I could see a place in the market for it but I suspect it’s going to be $200+ for it.

    That said if they can produce an ATF letter saying it’s not a machine gun and it’s not much more then $200 I might pick one up for shits and giggles, just so I have a cool rare piece (since I doubt it will stick around long) in like 10 years.

    1. avatar RocketScientist says:

      ATF has addressed volley guns (guns firing multiple projectiles from multiple barrels with single trigger pull) several times. They are NOT machine guns and NOT under NFA.

      http://imgur.com/a/vt2Qz

      Question/Answer # 16

  17. avatar Amanofdragons says:

    Fire once, miss twice.

  18. avatar Sian says:

    As it isn’t self-loading, it’s considered a volley gun, which is a neat little exception.

    1. avatar RocketScientist says:

      Correct:

      http://imgur.com/a/vt2Qz

      Question/Answer # 16

  19. avatar dph says:

    I don’t care what it shoots, that is the ugliest POS I’ve ever seen. Kinda makes Hi-Point look like a beauty queen.

  20. avatar David T says:

    I guess all the good names for manufacturing companies were taken. At least they didn’t go with “Satisfactory Manufacturing” or “Acceptable Manufacturing.”

  21. avatar TheUnspoken says:

    Not sure why the black model looks more carved for the handle and the colors are just a square box, hopefully just a prototype but I would hope you would at least try to make it look decent

  22. avatar Mike Betts says:

    A long time ago (and in a galaxy far away) I carried a .25 Erma semi-auto as an off-duty firearm. What the hell was I THINKING?

  23. avatar Holdfast says:

    I’m not a lawyer- but I think they may be on to something with the trigger concept. It’s a modern pepperbox.
    And ATF will be working for Trump on Friday!

  24. avatar jwm says:

    That looks like a 3d printer had a love child with hillary.

    1. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

      Vomiting now.

  25. avatar Ed says:

    Son-of-a-bitchin ATF should piss off already and take the FBI with them, buncha criminals. Gettin nothin done, but ruining everyone’s fun. Glorified revenue agents. They should do the Franklin Armory binary type trigger, fire one round on the trigger pull, one on the release.

  26. avatar Jon in CO says:

    I’ve got a friend with a DP12, it’s a fine gun. One of the heaviest, unmodified guns I’ve ever held, but it’s well built, and it works. So if they can get around atf with this, it would be interesting to play with.

  27. avatar samuraichatter says:

    Let me play a little devils advocate for this gun here. Yes, alot of caliber choices would have been better than .25. Still a few people on here, and elsewhere around the net, have theorized about a modern pepperbox. Well, here you go. If the ATF gives them a pass than a second shot is a real advantage and a big novelty selling point. If the ATF cries foul it is dead in the water.

    And I would want .25 over most .22 lr. For one it is a centerfire cartridge. Two, it actually has a jacket unlike .22 lr (yes I know there was a .22 fmj made but how common are those). Those cartridges need all the penetrative help they can get. And it does look concealable.

    If the pepperbox design is not throwback enough then the 4th pic is full on 80’s gun mag. You just need an ad for a pen gun and paladin press underneath it for the gen-x/cold war awesomeness to be complete.

  28. avatar derfel cadarn says:

    With the round this is chambered in to be at all effective all barrels would need to go off at the same time

  29. avatar Fred Frendly says:

    Thats ugly enough to be a modern art masterpiece. Or a Caracal.

  30. avatar Joey Miller says:

    If the 22lr “hornet’s nest” or “beehive” adapter for 40mm grenade launchers is not considered a “machine gun” for firing multiple rounds in one trigger pull, there is no reason this handgun would be.

  31. avatar Louis Marschalko says:

    Sounds kinda retro. I can imagine something like that in, say, 1970. Kooky ideas aren’t always better, but they are always kooky.

  32. For clarification on why the S333 does not classify as a Machinegun, and other technical info related to firearm classification, and 13 other firearm aspects, see us at http://www.GunLearn.com. Take the free quiz, and test your tech knowledge.

  33. avatar Cliff says:

    And if you got shot in the nuts with it..learn how to use a mouse gun.

  34. my question is now, why did you have to make the thing one of the ugliest guns on the market? If you are going to make a gun like this, make it sexy or good looking at the least. This thing is a total eye sore, what a loss.

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