AR with high capacity magazine (courtesy luckygunner.com)

California is proceeding with a ballot initiative that the Firearms Policy Coalition calls “the most radical and dangerous anti-gun ballot initiative in over 30 years.” It needs some 300k signatures to appear at the voting booth. It will get them. The ballot’s stated purpose and intent: “To implement reasonable and common-sense reforms to make California’s gun safety laws the toughest in the nation while still safeguarding the Second Amendment rights of all law- abiding, responsible Californians. [Click here to read the text.] The FPC summarizes its provisions thusly . . .

MANDATORY $50 DOJ AMMUNITION PURCHASE PERMIT
Under Gavin’s plan, anyone who wants to buy ammunition would need to pay $50 for one more background check and one more special DOJ licenses. How many special licenses and permits will California require to exercise Second Amendment rights?

ELIMINATION OF ONLINE AND “MAIL ORDER” AMMUNITION SALES
By requiring that all ammunition is transferred through specially-licensed ammunition retailers, Newsom’s anti-gun ballot initiative would eliminate online and mail order ammunition.

CRIMINALIZATION OF PRIVATE SALE AND TRANSFER OF AMMUNITION
No more letting someone borrow ammo for a range day, to finish the hunting trip, or even selling off extra ammunition.

TOTAL, CONFISCATORY BAN ON “LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINES” & BACK-DOOR GUN BAN
Millions of legally-possessed standard firearm magazines would need to be sold out of state, taken out of state, or collected destroyed by law enforcement. This is nothing less than a confiscatory, police state taking of your lawfully owned private property.

Worse, many legal firearms require magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds, as those are the only magazines available. This provision is a massive infringement of your Constitutional rights and a back-door gun ban.

Note that California law states that “any person in this state who….keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any large-capacity magazine is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.”

SPECIAL DOJ-ISSUED AMMUNITION SALES PERMITS
Hundreds, if not thousands, of existing ammunition retailers in California would be prohibited from selling ammunition…and might be forced to close their doors completely due to the requirement of a special, DOJ-issued ‘ammunition sales permit’ and burdensome new rules.

Exercising your Second Amendment rights would become more difficult, and, in some cases, virtually impossible, not to mention far more expensive. This provision would drastically reduce law-abiding people’s access to constitutionally-protected ammunition.

REQUIRED LOST/STOLEN LAW ENFORCEMENT REPORTING
The initiative would require that firearm owners waive their Fifth Amendment rights to notify law enforcement if their firearm has been lost or stolen.

If this initiative passes, California gun control advocates will take yet another giant step towards degrading and destroying Golden State gun owners’ natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms.

So-called slave states are salivating at the prospect. At the same time, so-called free states are moving forward to defending and extending Americans’ gun rights. While so-called slave states To quote Yeats, “things fall apart; the centre cannot hold.” It’s high time the Supreme Court stepped in – providing the majority of current Justices can read the Second Amendment.

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151 Responses to FPC on California Ballot Initiative: “The Most Radical and Dangerous Anti-Gun Laws in over 30 years”

  1. If we’re counting on SCOTUS to save us from our own elected representatives and our own bad choices, we’re SOL.

      • No, tyranny of the tyrants is a thing, and SCOTUS isn’t going to rescue us every time we fvck up and elect snakes to be our overlords.

        SCOTUS tried to save us when it started repealing New Deal boondoggles and scams. SCOTUS couldn’t help then. It can’t help now.

        • Only this is a ballot initiative, if I understand it. Meaning the muggles will get to vote on the fate of Hogwarts, not the legislature. Now, they had a ballot initiative a while back in CA – to ban gay marriage through an amendment to the state constitution. It passed by quite a comfortable margin, especially considering it’s CA after all. Then their state supreme court struck down the constitutional amendment as unconstitutional (! .. .?). What are the odds they will strike this down, being it infringes on an enumerated Constitutional right? Let us not go crazy holding our breaths here…

        • The 9th Circuit smacked Prop. 8 down after it passed by a wider margin than whatever measure the NC voters passed here a couple years ago. It’s wild, the “fruits and nuts” in CA have a stronger opinion of gay marriage than the “rednecks” here in the South.

          CA will hopefully sink into the ocean within our lifetime. F*ck everybody that still lives there in the meantime, it’s their own fault.

        • >> their state supreme court struck down the constitutional amendment as unconstitutional (! .. .?)

          CA Supreme Court actually found it constitutional. It was the federal court that found it unconstitutional.

        • “F*ck everybody that still lives there in the meantime, it’s their own fault.”

          Big words from someone so far away. Believe it or not some of us haven’t retreated to safer states waiting for the Persians to “come and take them.” How about you come here and fight them.

          California has more voters, more reps in congress, more electoral votes, and is the 8th most powerful economy on earth. These nuts and berries aren’t going anywhere. And its only getting worse as more normal people leave the state.

    • Yup. Agree. And POTG share some blame. Guns are a social issue. The POTG, mostly libertarians, stood by and did nothing as the Courts gained power to force the left’s social agenda down everyone’s throats. Now that same system is coming for our guns. The problem is we’ve empowered the government/legal system to change our culture as the left sees fit.

      The irony here is that it is being done with a a referendum. When the referendum in CA went against gay marriage, the Courts ignored the will of the people and did as they pleased. Now they are using a referendum to to take away our 2nd Amendment rights. Problem is, they won’t ignore it, they’ll do as they please.

      • “POTG” stood by in silent compliance and acceptance as many other constitutional freedoms were shredded via the Patriot Act. Yes, “POTG” are complicit in now losing their gun rights.

        • Yes, good catch. When the POTG are reduced to solely those left at the Alamo, they’ll have no one to blame for how that will turn out.

    • There may be up to 3 SC retirements over the next 8 years which, to me, is one of the very top concerns regarding the 2016 election. Petulant voters who will only vote for “purest” conservative candidates endanger our future,

      • As do “conservatives” who vote for tax raisers, “reasonable gun laws” (the reasonable laws were pretty much exhaustively enumerated to Moses. Or Mohammad. Neither of whom seem to recall much about “gun laws”)

        In general, if 60% of self described “conservatives” wants a president that only differs from a democrat by being, for now, OK with water pistols; while the remaining 40% won’t vote for anyone who thinks the 2nd makes exceptions for MP5s, armor piercing rounds and anti helicopter ordnance (as in, the kind of kit that has proven useful and necessary at safeguarding liberty from run amuck contemporary governments); is the latter group really the one we should be chastising?

    • I say all of us gun owners leave the state we will go to Texas or Kansas and then let all of the Syrian Refugees come to California to live. Then when the cowards come in and behead the infidels. We will come back and destroy the cowards and take our state back.
      Just a thought

  2. All of you people in free states better also take notice and get in the fight. The single party rule democrats in Kommiefornia are destroying this state in every conceivable way possible, not just gun rights. More and more people are leaving for your free states and the idiots are bringing enough of their ideals with them to screw your state up too. Don’t believe me, ask Oregon, Colorado and Washington.

    • Termites don’t throw their hands up and say “well that was a bad idea, might want to rethink our nesting habits” when the house they’ve been eating collapses. They just move to your home.

      • heh, californians = termites. I like it. As a Californian native (not sure how much longer) I can say if you want to keep the bad ones out, just setup a range at the border and make them run a basic firearms proficiency course with a AK variant (if a 12 year old Somali can do it, anyone can). If they can’t, or accidentally kill them selves, turn em around and make them go back to the dying cesspool they helped make.

        I suppose the only liberal influence I will miss is good sushi myself.

        • Trust me, there is plenty of good sushi elsewhere in the free states. If you only worry about where to get sushi, maybe you should just sit tight, otherwise haul ass out of there as fast as your feet will take you, or risk getting sucked under. Your choice.

        • The requirement for residency you seem to suggest, is about the most reasonable interpretation of a well regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free state I have seen in a long time…….

    • “It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others. Not every life can be a success, just like not every vessel can be seaworthy. But there’s no shame in being one spectacular shipwreck.”

      If California was a ship it would be the Titanic.

      • True statement. This summarizes why I make mandatory vaccine posts here; the assaults on individual freedoms in the name of public health, or for the children, is the same vehicle used to justify the government usurping individual rights. It’s an across the board assault on rights, not only gun rights.

  3. “To implement reasonable and common-sense reforms to make California’s gun safety laws the toughest in the nation while still safeguarding the Second Amendment rights of all law- abiding, responsible Californians.”

    Goddamn someone’s winning Bloomberg Buzzword Bingo today.

  4. I suppose that this is just a bunch of fluff, since no-one on SCOTUS seems to presently believe it:

    “The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts. One’s right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections.” – Justice Robert H. Jackson

    West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette 319 U.S. 624 (1943) 6-3 opinion

      • Yes, I suppose you are right…

        Jackson goes on:

        “…assurance that rights are secure tends to diminish fear and jealousy of strong government, and, by making us feel safe to live under it, makes for its better support. Without promise of a limiting Bill of Rights, it is doubtful if our Constitution could have mustered enough strength to enable its ratification. To enforce those rights today is not to choose weak government over strong government. It is only to adhere as a means of strength to individual freedom of mind in preference to officially disciplined uniformity for which history indicates a disappointing and disastrous end.”

        This should no doubt be removed from the “United States Law Reports” and filed in the library of Congress next to “Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea.”

    • Dude, that is so yesterday. Not one SCOTUS justice believes that passage now. A court that can find rights to abortion and gay marriage doesn’t give a crap about limiting government power.

      • I do not follow that reasoning. SCOTUS may construe and interpret issues pertaining to the constitution, but were not blatantly defined in the document, based on the document and hundreds of years of case law – this is in the constitution. You note social issues. The 2a adresses “arms” specifically, and the court has interpreted arms over the years to mean certain common guns, etc. if anything, if you feel the court should outlaw gay marriage and abortion, than it can be allowed to further define what is “arms” and what is “infringed” – you cannot have it both ways. Leave abortion and gay marriage alone, and leave the current definition of “arms” and “infringed” alone I say. (Or, send in the Bungy clan to enforce what they feel is correct)

        • ” if you feel the court should outlaw gay marriage”

          The Court never considered outlawing gay marriage. What they did was effectively amend the Constitution when they struck down state bans on gay marriage. For the record, I’m fine with gay marriage, but the way it was done is horrifying. The SCOTUS does not have the authority to create “Constitutional” rights based on nothing more than personal ideology.

  5. they (the government) keep pushing and the citizens of California will have to assemble, execute and concur (you can read into this any way you want but i know whit i mean… )

    • Apparently not. There is no language in the proposed statute that I recall seeing that applies to these items.

      • “There is no language in the proposed statute that I recall seeing that applies to these items.”

        The word “ammunition” will be replaced with the term “ammunition or any of its constitute components”.

        Happy to help make it even more onerous.

        *sob*

        • Not this time around, anyway. Once the DOJ issues its title and economic impact statement and it goes for signature gathering, it can’t be amended, as that would invalidate any signatures gathered for the previous version.

    • Shhhh! California legislators don’t know we can make our own ammunition. They think they are created as droppings out of the ass of a unicorn during a pixie ritual around the rainbow. The manufacture of that sh!t is magical.

    • It will have to be a black market. The proposed law makes it a felony for a consumer to import ammo from out of state (and avoid the ammo certificate and other regulations). then again, it will also put the hoarders who sell ammo at jacked up prices at gun shows out of business unless they become licensed ammo vendors and comply with the regulatory requirements. Which they may not be able to do, since the law specifies that an instant background check be conducted at the time of each purchase. AFAIK, you have to be an FFL to be able to access the NICS system; do sellers of ammo only qualify to get an FFL license?

      • Watch them institute vehicle checks at state borders, kinda like DUI check points.

        “Sir or M’am? Do you have any firearm ammunition or ammunition components in the vehicle?”

        Meanwhile, while the window is rolled down, a little sniffer wand sucks in a little air from around the window and sends it to an explosives vapor tester.

        “Step out of the vehicle and keep your hands where I can see them!”

        Watch them fund a reward program for turning in ammo smugglers.

        • Heh. Institute border checkpoints. Institute. As a lifelong resident of the People’s Democratic Republic of California, there’s very little that I enjoy more than telling people who have not been blessed with the good fortune of having intimate firsthand familiarity with the wonderous inner workings of this truly spectacular Country (er, state. State.) just what it is that they have missed out on.

          “But Siorus,” you say. “That’s an awfully strange thing to enjoy.” Indeed it is, reader. Indeed it is. However, our Dear Leaders have outlawed anything and everything that might be traditionally construed as “fun” or “entertaining” in the name of public safety-I hear they’re working on banning unpermitted orgasms next-so I must find entertainment where I can. And I have yet to find anything else that is topically appropriate for a family-friendly website which produces more expressions of abject confusion and utter disgust-more “WTFs per hour,” if you will, than describing a day in the life of a typical resident of the Twilight Zone to somebody that’s never experienced it for themselves.

          Besides, as a walking, talking (er, typing) canary in the coal mine I kinda feel an obligation to warn y’all about what’s coming. Y’know, out of the coldest, darkest depths of my shriveled carcass of a heart. That and frankly, I really, really like saying “I told you so” and, being that I’m a cynical SOB, I’m kinda setting myself up for the long game here.

          Anyhow. Border checkpoints. Yeah, no. They won’t need to institute those, my friend; we’ve already got ’em. See, California takes its agricultural industry very, very seriously.

          Shortly after you cross over the Oregon-California border on I-5 southbound, a few miles north of Yreka, CA (population: maybe) you will come to a tiny California Highway Patrol outpost, whereupon you will be required to stop. An officer will then inquire as to whether you are carrying any fruits or vegetables in the vehicle (n.b. “besides the passengers?” is not an appropriate response to this question unless you get off on being tased). You will answer either “no” or “these are not the apples you are looking for” with an appropriately Jedi-like wave of your hand, at which point you will be motioned through the checkpoint and allowed to continue on your way. Unless it is snowing. (“Snowing? What does that have to do with anything?” Hold your horses, I’ll get to that in a second.)

          I have no clue what happens if you tell these people “yes” in response to their inquiry but I suspect that it will involve a protracted stay at the checkpoint whilst they ascertain what, exactly, it is that protocol requires when someone attempts to import a high-capacity fully-automatic eggplant.

          It is my understanding that we have similar checkpoints to detain vehicles coming into the state until The Government has determined to its satisfaction that its occupants are not going to unleash a plague of biblical proportions on our almond industry (yeah, the same one we don’t have the water for) at other interstate highways, like the I-80 border with Nevada. I haven’t checked those out personally, mainly because (a) there’s nothing in Nevada except gambling, brothels, and guns (…Huh. I should book a trip to Nevada.) and (b) when dealing with a police state it’s usually ill-advised to hang around border checkpoints too much lest you be mistaken for a defector.

          So no. They’ll probably just revise the question to “do you have any produce or ammunition in the car?” and then use the people that answer “yes” in spontaneous nightstick durability testing experiments.

          As to the snow thing; in the interest of public safety (and possibly recognizing that most of the population of the state lacks the mental faculties, spatial awareness and hand-eye coordination necessary to safely operate a mobility scooter), California has laws regarding the use of tire chains on passenger vehicles. Specifically, if Caltrans feels that chains are required, they will establish “chain controls,” of which there are three different ‘levels’. From the CA DOT’s website:
          Requirement One (R1): Chains or snow tread tires required. Snow tires must have a tread depth of 6/32″ with a “M & S” imprint on the tire’s sidewall.
          Requirement Two (R2): Chains required on all vehicles except four-wheel drives or all-wheel drives with snow tread tires on all four wheels. NOTE: four-wheel and all-wheel drive vehicles must carry traction devices in chain control areas)
          Requirement Three (R3): Chains are required on all vehicles, no exceptions. (I’d really like to know how this works; you can’t install chains on most 4wd/awd-equipped vehicles; it is an excellent way to destroy the transfer case/center diff, and Subaru-for example-explicitly states not to use them under any circumstances, for any reason, period, ever, under penalty of death or five-figure repair bills not covered by warranty-whichever comes first-in their owner’s manuals.)

          If road conditions continue to worsen, they will close the afflicted area completely.

          How does this pertain to the border checkpoints? Storytime. I moved my then-girlfriend down here from Oregon one fine December a few years back. At the time, I owned a Subaru STI, which I had equipped with all-season tires specifically for my trips to visit her and then to move her down here. We left Oregon in a very, very light snowstorm. Temperature just at freezing, flakes lightly drifting to the ground and immediately melting. Not even heavy enough to really require wipers. Everyone on the freeway in Oregon was maintaining a reasonable, prudent and comfortable 50-60mph. We reached the border checkpoint-weather completely unchanged-declared our innocence under penalty of Christ-only-knows, were waved through… And immediately came to a Dead. F—-ing. Stop.

          “Why?” you ask? “Because California drivers are hopelessly incompetent and all of the CA-plated cars left the checkpoint and immediately veered into each other as if attracted by some unknown, godlike magnetic force, creating a pileup large enough to be seen from the moon?” No, no. Nothing so logical.

          In light of the fact that we were dealing with an onslaught of Frozen Sky-Water, Caltrans had implemented R2 chain controls and the CHP had subsequently “shut down” I5 south. Not completely shut down, mind you; cars were still being allowed through. They just stopped both lanes of traffic and had officers going down the line of cars asking if we had either all-wheel drive or snow chains. People with chains were waved off to the side of the road, I presume people with neither were left to starve, and those of us with AWD and snow-rated tires were allowed to pass. To this day I wonder what exactly would have happened, given that the sum total of available law enforcement officers within at least a 50 mile radius was involved in this brobdingnagian farce, if I had simply looked at the guy, said “no” and stood on it. What would they have done in light of the fact that, with the number of officers involved in this exercise and the rural nature of the area, there is absolutely no way that there was anybody between there and Redding to radio? Attempted to catch a STI in snow with a fleet of CVPIs? If ever there were a justification for the use of the Benny Hill theme song in a patrol car dashcam video…

          Anyhow. Like I said, they won’t need to implement border checkpoints. They’ll just expand the current ones from checking for Title II cruciferous vegetables and ensuring that, in case of snow, everyone’s vehicle is equipped with the traction enhancement devices necessary to ensure that when they crash, it will be at the highest practically-attainable velocity for the road conditions at the time, to making sure we’re not keistering 5000rds of .22lr when we come back from Reno.

          (In all seriousness, the dealings I’ve had with the people at this checkpoint have been, universally, the most efficient, least troublesome and fastest interactions I’ve ever had with any Government agency or its representatives at any level, and I understand why they’re so paranoid about people bringing produce that hasn’t been purchased at grocery stores into the state. It’s still farcical in the extreme, and the snow tire situation would be comedic if only it wasn’t so pathetic.)

        • “Siorus says:
          January 7, 2016 at 06:06

          Heh. Institute border checkpoints. Institute. As a lifelong resident of the People’s Democratic Republic of California,…”

          I left CA 20 years ago, however I have experienced both of these types of checkpoints.

          Heh heh heh, I cannot leave that excellent post without adding a cheery ‘Well Done Sir’ to it.

      • I appreciate the snark but let’s be clear on one thing. Nobody got strangled in that incident. The guy died of a heart attack because he was about 500lbs overweight and tried to get in a fight with two young relatively fit police officers. That was the original story from the medical examiner before everything got politicized. Multiple martial arts experts said it was basically impossible that he was strangled based on the position of the officer who was on his back. This included two members of the Gracie family (the family that started Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, where the majority of submissions essentially involve strangling someone, so they would know a little about the subject).

        Now, carry on.

  6. Just like with fireworks on the Iowa/Missouri border hundreds of ammunition “shacks” within a mile of the state line will pop up overnight selling ammunition by the pallet. Time to buy some cheap property in Nevada and Arizona.

    • Nope. See my post above. Importing ammo into the state without a vendor’s license will be a felony.The Cal DOJ will post agents at every such shack and photograph license plates. Then the CHP will stop every car that crosses the border back into California, arresting the occupants for violating the importation law.

      • When the drug trade goes away, I’ll believe the ammo trade is in danger. Otherwise, you will be able to buy whatever ammo you desire anywhere in America. I’m pretty sure importing cocaine and heroin into the state is a felony, right now, and you can buy it anywhere. Or are you claiming CA is now drug-free?

      • Importing or possession? They’d have to devote a lot of resources to catch you and prove that you didn’t have the ammo in your trunk when you left the state. Not saying that the state of CA wouldn’t devote those resources, but it would be a colossal waste of time. And since they’d be messing with NV commerce it’s possible that NV would look to find a way to bust the CA agents.

        BTW, fireworks are not illegal to possess or buy in Iowa just illegal to sell or light. And the latter they don’t enforce much. So if you’re driving back from MO with a trunk full if fireworks you’re not breaking any law.

      • The police state already knows how to deal with this. At Cabelas/Reno, located in Verdi near the stateline, during the larger sales events the CHP and ATF set up a sting op with undercover agents cruising the store watching for customers buying mags/ammo in quantity, follow them to their cars, and if CA plates they radio (or text) plate #s to the CHP/ATF observation post the set up at the NDOT pullout the eastbound side of I-80 1/2 mile west of Cabela’s with spotting scopes to report the magazine/ammo smugglers getting on the westbnd on ramp to waiting patrol units west of Verdi. I’ve seen this many times. The police state may be unconstitutional, but it knows how to use optics & comms to bust private citizens. Be discrete, Cali folk.

        • As it happens I know of an excellent smuggling route. Takes you from Tahoe into Cali well past the checkpoint.

          I found it quite by accident. It was a sunny winter day when my friend and I took a photo tour of the east side of lake Tahoe. We started on I-80, followed the ring road into Tahoe. The main connection to HWY 50 was severly congested so I turned onto tiny streets. I followed my gps and eventually ended up on HWY 50 well below the check point and the traffic.

  7. This plan from Newsom and Harris worries me more than anything else California’s Democratic Tyrannists have cooked up since “Roberti-Roos” in 1992. This creates a scheme to control the supply of ammunition available to law-abiding Citizen gun owners that could spread wildly to other States. There are many possible unforeseen consequences, including creating a huge, expensive Black Market for ammunition in CA, subjecting CA gun owners to exorbitant prices for “range ammunition”, making some calibers all but impossible to obtain, driving small retailers out of business and generally starving shooting sports Statewide.

    Then there’s the magazine issue, which is well explained in the summary from FPC, but the ammunition sales matter is the primary concern…er….looming nightmare.

    • Ok, so Gavin Mewsome say’s we can’t bring in ammo from another state. My question is…..just who the H E L L is going to check every vehicle for ammo? Are they going to have inspectors in Nevada, Arizona, Oregon gun shops checking every sale. Are they going to insist that these states report sales to Kommieforniastan residents? Are they going to force these states to check I.D.’s? News flash, the TSA doesn’t give a D A M N what you bring into Kommieforniastan if it isn’t on THEIR list. Are they going to have a massive data base where you list all you ammo then report how many rounds you expended at the range? This proposed ‘law’ is unenforceable it’s just a ploy for Mewsome to get a boost for his run as another failed Governor. f’m

      • It doesn’t have to be every vehicle. Just enough, witgh appropriate publicity, to discourage most law-abidding owners from trying it. As I stated before, agents of the DOJ will go to the large gun stores and gun shows within a hundred miles of the border, photograph license plates, and then have the CHP stop cars that were at such places.

        • How is that working with drugs? Hell, how is it working with prepubescent sex slaves? Don’t be ridiculous.

        • “As I stated before, agents of the DOJ will go to the large gun stores and gun shows within a hundred miles of the border, photograph license plates, and then have the CHP stop cars that were at such places.”

          I’ll mail a friend across the border the cash (with some extra for his help), he’ll buy the ammo, I’ll meet him at his house for ‘lunch’ and make the x-fer there.

          There will be ways to do it.

          Risk, yes, but there will be ways to do it…

        • The average drug dealer isn’t too worried about breaking the law. Can we say the same for the average gun owner, the vast majority of whom are law abidding citizens? They won’t risk bringing it in, they’ll just buy it off of whomever does. Just like drugs. Since there will be a record of all legal purchases in the state, possession of ammo that you did not purchase (and which the coding on the box will state when it was produced) will be presumptive evidence of unlawful transfer.

      • You can rant and beat your chest all you want about how unenforceable this scheme would be, but if it gets into Law in California and YOU are the one they catch you won’t be any less screwed for how vehemently you have raved. Nor would anyone else. The real worrying point is that this kind of thing SHOULD BE as unthinkable as legalizing pedophilia, but there’s no one in the State Government, or Courts, who is going to tell Newsom and Harris they cannot / should not do this up front. Worse yet, there are enough f**ktards registered to vote who will sign the qualifying petition, and vote for it on the November ballot, that it has a real chance of passing.

  8. While there are a number of very serious issues here, the most serious would seem to be it will redefine gun ownership as a privilege, not a right. The only positive, is it will bring out gun owning voters, and will bury Newsom if it fails and reverse years of anti-gun legislation and zealotry.

  9. Congratulations, California. You are now worse than Canada. None of this we have to put up with here, as bad as other things might be.

    • What do you mean, “now”? This has been the case for a long time. Canada doesn’t have “bullet buttons”, either.

  10. Make sure this feel-good initiative doesn’t have any :law enforcement” or “government” exceptions, just to see how long it lasts, if at all.

  11. Gun control can be stopped in its tracks if the industry revolted and refused to sell to slave states–Barrett style.

    • “Gun control can be stopped in its tracks if the industry revolted and refused to sell to slave states–Barrett style.”

      Rabbi, the ‘Ammo Nazis’ will just have their fellow brother ‘Ammo Nazis’ drop-ship ammo from their state…

  12. Seems there will be “slave” states next to a bunch of “free” states.
    Hows about someday a bunch of “criminals” who don’t obey laws any way. Decide to help themselves out in a “slave” state. Since there wont be anyone to help in defending a “slave” state. It will be real easy pickings for the “criminal” guys to just walk in and take what they want.

  13. Maybe it’s the jet lag or the four hours of sleep in two days, but can we just have Civil War 2.0 now and get it over with? Seriously, I’m tired of being dictated to by gutless wimps. There might be more of them, but they are sheep, and it’s time to make mutton.

  14. So is the guy in the thumbnail cross-eye dominant? I’ve never seen a nose across the stock like that before.

    Optical illusion? Descendant of Jimmy Durante?

  15. This crap truly sucks and the low information brainwashed sheeple of this Democrat run state will happily relinquish another protection they’ve been convinced they don’t need or want because, you know, progressive collectivist utopia and false anti-gun hysteria whipped up by anti-gun Democrats and their media promoters.

    Soon all these mealy faced fashionably liberal idiot voters who’ve been vacant mindedly re-electing their Pied Piper Democrat politicians without any critical thought about the logic of these pol’s intrusive activities on our freedoms will have given away the whole farm to big brother.

    But that’s ok. They’ll all have an eco friendly unicorn parked in their driveway underwritten by the state using their own tax money. This is the present day Utopia of California after all…until it’ not and the State comes to collect it’s pound of flesh from every LEGAL resident to finance all this Democrat mob run entitlement largess and freedom devouring enslavement.

    Exageration? Give it some more time under Democrat rule. Loss of gun rights is just the beginning as the progressives continue to advance their control over all aspects of our vulnerable freedoms and sink this state into a state controlled progressive conformity collectivist hell hole.

    • You are not exaggerating, Roscoe. My puzzlement is that it took this long. Gun rights is the one area the left hasn’t gotten what it wanted. And it is pissed, and it holds grudges and it never forgets. It is coming for our guns.

  16. I recently watched Ken Burns documentary on Prohibition and a lot can be learned from that. Within a few years the criminal element had capitalized and profited from the new law and it took over 20 years to correct that mistake.

    • What do you mean 20 years? It’s still a federal felony for me to make whiskey for my own consumption in my own home and it took Jimmy Carter’s only reasonable act as President to make it legal to brew beer in your home. We’ll be lucky if this gets straightened out after a century.

  17. A typical Californian who is a non-shooter, non-gun owner will vote for Newscum’s tyranny. Because they are sheeple and actually believe the MSM. I predict things will be much darker here in the Golden State by 2017. Keep in mind this crap is just to Newscum elected. Once he has Brown’s office, he is going even more gung ho on law abiding gun owners. Gun ownership is doomed here, magazine-fed semi autos will be banned as soon as Newscum takes office and the first 2018 legislative session, the jerks in Sacramento will just resurrect SB249 which already passed but Brown vetoed it. And yes, Californians are spreading like a tyrannical cancer to all of the surrounding states. A friend just moved from California to Prescott, he said the liberal Californians are everywhere in Prescott, the Valley of the Gun. If Arizona falls to the “California Cancer”, then all of the states will. Gun owners refused to take action, get off of their asses and get pro 2A leaders elected, now they are paying the price here. People get the government they deserve.

  18. Background check for gun. Background check for carry license. Background check for ammo. Background check for clipazines. Background checks for ear pro. We just need more background checks is all.

  19. Not only will it take only 300,000 signatures to qualify this measure for the ballot (due to a low turnout in the last general election), it will only take a 50.1% majority to pass it. Of the 24 million eligible voters in the state, only 17 million are registered voters, and only 7.5 million voted in the last general election (in which Brown was running essentially unopposed as was Boxer, hence not much of interest to vote for). The turnout in the next general election–being a presidential election–should be much larger. And if every gun owner votes against the proposal (there are an estimated 10 million owners), the law should fail, but it will be close.

    • ‘Hopeful’ thinking, Mark.

      Part of the problem too is that many gun owners talk the talk, but they don’t walk the walk to support pro-gun orgs. or hit the polls when it’s voting time.

      We may be outnumbered by mealy faced Democrat sheeple, but many sheeple don’t go out of their way to vote either, because they don’t have any skin in the game regarding guns. Gun control won’t drive most Dems to the polls, but it should drive every gun owner to the polls every time because what’s at stake will affect near every one of them. Problem is, way too many gun owners don’t vote for their own cause when the time comes, nor participate in pro-gun efforts such as donating money or simply signing off on letters to politicians and phone calls.

      There’s a term for that: lazy procrastination.

      Or maybe many passive gun owners have been hounded by the antis and media I nto thinking fighting back is a hopeless cause because big Democrat government has a lock on this state. So they also want to stay annonomous and safely out of the political efforts – which then gives them another excuse not to participate in the pro-gun efforts.

      • On the other hand, this is different than voting for a candidate of either party that is either pro or anti gun; it is a stand alone proposition that has to stand or fall on its own merit. Therefore gun owning Democrats may vote against it.

  20. So what’s all this mean for a non California resident just passing through on the way to Arizona or Nevada. Am I a felon for bringing my guns and ammo through the state?

      • How does that play into FOPA? No protections there?

        Or, say a dude, a legit businessman, is traveling from one state to another…through CA…to attend a trade show where he is trying to sell his new ammunition product. No “Interstate Commerce” problems with this sort of thing? (Not selling IN CA, just passing through).

        This has a LOT of problems. The question is, will the voters of CA realize it, or accept the dry backside humping they’ve been programmed to take or even ask for.

        Just know, CA entity, most of the rest of the country is either laughing at you, pitying you or disgusted by you. We sure don’t “admire” you and your “progress.”

    • Personally I don’t really care any more. We have driven to/from Arizona carrying multiple pistols and an AK ready to go. When I occasionally drive into CA for work (usually Oakland or Long Beach), I carry a CZ-82 loaded the full 12rd and a few mags ready to go.

      I will say this though.. I have an expert attorney who is a close family friend, hunting partner, and like an uncle to me. I might think twice if that wasn’t the case.

  21. California will soon have the same gun laws as Mexico. Which, when you think about it, is not unexpected since they both have the same voters.

    • There is way more truth to that remark than you know. Many of the problems we are seeing not just in CA, but throughout the nation are directly connected to our southern border being a political tool for both parties.

  22. As a born, bred and raised in California gun owner, California is a lost cause but the really sad part is that the anti-gun political cancer has spread and is already infecting Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Colorado and parts of Texas. My friend who just moved to Prescott, Az from here even thinks in a few years, the infection may change Arizona! Brainwashed libtard zombies are overrunning the state borders and polluting the gene and voting pools of all of the surrounding states. Maybe the whole zombie apocalypse marketing angle I used to make fun of is coming true, the zombies really are coming. They have tans, are rich, drive Prius’ and invade local elections with their moronic ideals that already destroyed this state. Don’t let them get a foothold, drive them back to the border!

  23. Sorry to see this. I live in Illinois-I get it. My “rights” rest on a freakin’ court order…I see massive black market tomfoolery. Or maybe this will mobilize the troops. I wish you well.

  24. Remember those times when Alex Luthor tried to sink California into the pacific? he may have been trying to do us a favor. Turns out, Superman was actually the bad guy.

        • True dat. But the people are much softer, and spoiled by the guvmint freebies (cal-stuff). The mobs will “sack York”, it will get ugly, and the people will relearn a basic lesson of the natural world: peace through superior firepower

        • “The infrastructure is considerably more durable than 1906…”

          I think the people in San Bruno would argue that.

  25. “California respects your Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. You just can’t have any bullets.”

  26. I really wish every person who thinks that they are helping maintain Californians RTKBA by constantly mining the ground around the free exercising of the 2nd Amendment finds themselves in a DGU situation where the cops can’t help them and only a gun would save their families, their kids, their spouses, and before the exercise ends they understand that as has been stated previously, “when seconds count, the police are minutes away”.

    I have always loved firearms, the serious understanding of what the 2nd Amendment means in plain English, and I have watched with increasing rage as people here demonstrate an utter lack of fundamental understanding that initiatives like this are vampires, they never die if voted against as they will be brought back by persistent idiots who think giving away their rights is the answer to a handful of violent crimes.

    Everyday, Alaska calls to me, I can’t get out of here fast enough.

    • that initiatives like this are vampires, they never die if voted against as they will be brought back by persistent idiots

      That’s the most discouraging part….even if you rally the troops and spend a crapload of money to kill this proposal, you know it will keep coming around because it’s relatively cheap to sponsor the initiative.

  27. The next civil war will be over guns, but this time it won’t be North vs South, it’ll be the East and West Coasts vs the Heartland and state police/national guard vs local police and the people.

    I wonder if this passes, how exactly is California going to enforce it? Where will they get the money or the prisons to hold non-conformists? Oh, they’ll just release all their prisoners and replace once law abiding citizens with the worst of humanity.

    Yeah, that’ll stop that “gun violence.”

    • Well the members of protected minority and special-interest groups won’t be charged with ammo violations, so that will only mean they have to find room for white hetero non-tranny guys.

      Come to think of it, there’s probably not many of those left in Ca.

  28. So California’s previous gun laws were working so well they needed a dozen more.
    I’m sensing a pattern here…

  29. Ballot initiatives. That’s how some of the most tyrannical crap is getting passed. Thanks, LIVs. Let it be a warning to all states.

  30. At least CA is consistent, they just passed the most restrictive vaccine laws in the country, depriving healthy children who opt of vaccination an education in both public and private schools.

    • I know I’m going to regret this…but how does the State of CA “control” what is taught in PRIVATE schools?

      That’s at least partly rhetorical. I DO understand how this sh1t gets normalized. Here in NC, we have a State agency called the Department of Non-Public Education.

      Of course, in our case, they are MOSTLY neutered due to the way the laws are written.

      It’s just insane the level of Statism US citizens have accepted into their lives as “normal.”

      • As far as control of what is being taught in public and private schools has to do with the accreditation process. The issue I
        Mentioned is CA just took away people’s right to an education, public or private, if they deny specific medical procedures. 2 different issues, but related at the same time, just as is any government overreach and usurping of people’s rights. Why would you regret asking that?

        • “Why would you regret asking that?”

          Education is a touchy topic to some, and some actually DO believe that .gov is ‘best’ at regulating it…or, in terms you used, ‘certifying’ what/how children should be educated.

          My comment could open a whole can-o-worms even though it seems clear to me that .gov (at any level) should have precisely zero input on “non-public” or “private” education, or any education that is not conducted BY the government.

          I’m a bit of a homeschool evangelist. I happen to believe that education is nothing more than YATTSO (Yet Another Thing to Sh1t On) by the Statists…

        • Agree. Through the state controlled accreditation process, they have control over educational content, or lack thereof.

  31. Honestly, California just needs a FOID card. If they want to go all postal, just have the system generate an authorization code for each sale firearm or ammo that goes on the receipt. That way the card is verified as good. Let people get the codes by phone for private sales. Do not sent what it was back to the state (that way no gun registration). They will then get universal background checks for everything, no effective gun registration. The best part is the antis will not be able to say that gun ownership is dropping, because you will have hard numbers.

    • That would never do. It wouldn’t generate enough income (through renewal fees for the multiple permits) to fund the enforcement of the laws. Death by a thousand cuts.

  32. The right will continue to lose when we are unwilling to play by the new rulebook of the Left.

    Find out the names of the sponsors of this bill and maybe some signers and give them a viscous DOXXing.
    Stand in public square of San Fran and Berkley and collect names for the ballot and then publicly out those names.

    Do every under-handed low-down dirty rotten tactic of the Left to make their lives miserable.
    Find out who they work for and trash their company rep on social media and tell the company what employee of theirs they can thank.
    Let it be a lesson to discourage future sponsors and supporters in other states.

    ….Whew….that felt good to write.
    Don’t know if I agree with it though.

    • The proponent (sponsor) of this initiative petition is our current Lt. Governor, and likely next Governor, Gavin Newsome.

  33. All the paid opposition of this ballot should be focused on the vindictive and harassing nature of the ammo restrictions. The point must be made that there are umpteen TRILLION rounds of ammo in the US and it is beyond stupid (and just plain VINDICTIVE and UNFAIR to law abiding citizens) to think you will stop a bad guy from getting a handful of ammo.

    There should be a tone that the proposal will just breed anger and discontent for no measureable gain.

    And then if the restrictions get voted in?…. well then DOXX the F out of any known sponsors and known supporters.

  34. Once again, logic fails to win the day.

    Ammunition cannot harm anyone on it’s own. This is no more meaningful than trying to ban pen refills to restrict hate-speech.

    At the end of the day, even if it DOES achieve the desired effect of reducing ammo availability to the law-abiding in the State, it will do NOTHING to alter the social and cultural problems CA says it is trying to solve.

    So, once again, a “solution” will fail to solve the “problem” and ONCE AGAIN, the Progressive, power hungry Statists will get to claim the “problem” still exists and they need to do something (oppressive) to solve it.

    The never ending cycle.

    They no more want to solve problems than Trump wants anonymity.

  35. I’m not lawyer and may be counting too much on logic, but if the exercise of the right to vote, which is specifically outlined in the Constitution, cannot be subject to a tax (poll tax) how can it not be illegal to tax the right to bear arms?

  36. Partitioning of States that have solid political lines drawn, is going to become the norm i believe.
    The liberal swarm is concentrated in only a few counties, while the majority of the real estate is held by conservatives… When you only need 300k signatures to make law for an entire State, . you can get em on the city buses of LA in a week… leaving the entire State without a voice.. these are the sort of acts that redraw borders.. Its only a matter of time.

    • The North State dreams of becoming the State of Jefferson. But it will never happen. Other than the fact that such a state would not be economically viable, it would require the consent of both the State of California and the Fed, neither of which is likely.

      The 300,000 number is not set in stone. Rather, the initiative process requires the signatures of 5% of the number of voters in the last general election. The last general election (2014) had a very low turnout, only 7.5 million out of 17 million registered voters (42.2%) [and only 31% of all 24 million eligible voters].

  37. I’m finally selling my condo. I hope this doesn’t pass, but it may accelerate my decision to move out of California if it does. I am confident that this will create an ammunition black market if it does pass.

    Some have mentioned agricultural checkpoints. They are a joke. Likewise this law will be enforced, but will have major gaps which will allow smuggling. Let’s be honest, if California can’t stop the smuggling of people and drugs, than it can’t stop the smuggling of ammo or mags.

    • A lot of people said the same about SB 277 last year. When big money goes against individual freedom, don’t be too surprised of the outcome.

    • I certainly hope it doesn’t. However, there’s nothing from stopping an ugly return of laws like these. And once these idiotic laws gets passed, it takes a lot of time, money and effort to repeal them – if they ever get repealed at all. Case in point: the 10 day waiting period was found to be unconstitutional. Yet it still exists. I’m currently on day 2 of 10 for a Palmetto State Armory AR lower.

    • Yea, this will fail. “Gun Things” put to the populace tend to fail. What’s more telling is that this would not survive in the State houses, otherwise it would have been done there. Even Brown wouldn’t have signed something like this.

      So, foolishly, they just motivated the POTG to go vote. Since California is pre-destined in the General (we’re a blue state), and since the primaries are typically decided before they even get here, many on the right don’t bother to vote, barring some compelling more local issue.

      Well, now they have one if they’re POTG. Folks running for the House should really leverage this.

  38. Relax, it’s is a ballot initiative. A crap one IMHO, but the people get to vote. I frankly love the way this particular part of CA politics works. (one of the few things) If you want something that your elected representatives are not giving you, you are free to get a bunch (300K people isn’t all that easy) of people together, and get the whole darn state to vote on it. If they are able to garner the required signatures and then win, then it’s truly the people’s will. I wish there were more states where this type of thing could occur. If they vote for it, they deserve it.

    OH…BTW CA is currently experiencing a net out flux of population – http://dailysignal.com/2016/01/06/what-the-top-five-states-people-are-moving-from-have-in-common/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=thffacebook

  39. This is why California needs to be partitioned into smaller states. A few select cities on the east coast who cannot tolerate individual freedoms should not dictate the lives of everyone in the state.

  40. Sadly, until non-compliance is backed up by LEO’s this is going to be the norm.

    Marijuana laws changed because the governments of the states wouldn’t side with the feds. That is the key.

    Local governments need to tell Sacramento, “We have no intention whatsoever of enforcing this law”

  41. I realize States can make law beyond that of Fed’s. When a citizen can’t any longer acquire a firearm or ammo, when does the camels back break? When foundational Constitutional Rights are killed off can the tables turn? Is there a point where infringements go too far?

  42. When you put great homosexual sex representation in public office you get your firearms confiscated. You who supported the open homosexual and ex cop, Tom Ammiano who wrote the law making rape victims or anyone else wait longer for a gun, you are getting the government you have voted for and supported since the middle 1980s.

    Tom Ammiano was loudly cheered in gay pride parades while passing laws that interfere in the private lives of people. But since it is a homosexual telling other people how to live that is ok with the left.

  43. California is a lost cause, move to another state and let the beast starve. When people that work and supply taxes move away the taxes leave the business leave and the rich will follow. You have put to many left wing morons in office now it cant be fixed.

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