Today’s Question of the Day comes straight from the former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s fifth column “journalists” at thetrace.org. They’re mystified – mystified I tell you! – that Planned Parenthood shooter Robert Lewis Dear managed to hold off police for five hours armed with . . . the authorities ain’t sayin’. Propagandist Alex Yablon surmises that Dear used an AK-47 with a recently outlawed standard capacity ammunition magazine. Ahead of the inevitable call for an “assault weapon” ban (and the rest), Yablon cites numerous examples where the police were “outgunned” by bad guys. So how about it? How can ONE MAN managed to hold off a phalanx of AR-15-armed cops – which would never happen in a state where “assault rifles” are banned?

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78 Responses to Question of the Day: How Did the Planned Parenthood Gunman Hold Off the Police for Five Hours?

  1. Bank robbery, turned into hostage situation.

    There was no “holding off” because the police didn’t advance. The brought in a negotiator and voila the guy registered to vote as a female was captured alive.

    Once again proving the media is nothing but propaganda.

  2. Yes… Because the advantage of actual cover and concealment as well as human shields obviously has nothing to do with the tactics involved. Clearly the cops should have just rolled a tank up there and blown up the clinic. /sarc

    • Ya, PP paid the cops off. They didn’t want the evening news to lead with “multiple people killed at a Planned Parenthood [death machine] clinic”. No “people” can be “killed” at Planned Parenthood clinics, only “People”.

    • They can’t pull “think of the children!” on this one — every infant in that clinic was slated for death already.

      • Just FYI, not all PP centers even perform abortions, and even those that do, do something else most of the time.

        (And, of course, a fetus is not a person anymore so than an egg is a chicken, or a seed is a tree.)

        • An egg is a chicken once properly fertilized. Even before it is hatched. I think you need a better analogy.

          Or maybe not. Female homosapiens pass eggs every month too. We don’t eat those eggs, but nobody calls them little humans either.

        • Of course.

          People only become people based on what some some arbitrary bureaucrat or court stooge “feels” is the right number of months post conception. One day, a non person. Then, “you are now a person”, the apparatchik says.

          Or, perhaps, it is when some surgery room scheduler happens to schedule a C-section in room H…..

          That’s how people are made, you know: By “state licensed” “professional” “experts.” Who deem erstwhile non persons to one day be so……

        • If they’re not a “person” then you’re not. Further, you can’t claim to be a fellow individual who gives a flying F about MY life, or the lives of my friends and family if you can kill a “person” THAT YOU MADE BY YOUR OWN INVITATION.

        • Last I checked, new Moms dont eject babies out of their vaginas and toss them in the fridge unwashed for a couple montha while they decode what to do with “it.” Science doesnt matter any more than morality to commercial cannibals. No better than the cartel members and terrorists that kidnap and murder people for ransom

    • “Clearly the cops should have just rolled a tank up there and blown up the clinic. /sarc”

      Isn’t that sort of what they did? Police drove a Bearcat through the front doors right into the building and used it to get officers into the building and several hostages out.

  3. If I couldn’t do it for at least 5 hours, I would buy a new rifle, or different ammo or something, optics? whiz-bang trigger group? Something.

    What’s the record?

  4. Just spitballing here, but aren’t sane, knowledgeable officers usually more afraid of bullets than ignorant, possibly suicidal nut jobs? Maybe not wanting to get shot was a deciding factor?

    • Some of that, maybe. More than that, though, was not wanting to get hostages shot.

      I listened to this “live” and a lot of the conversation “broadcast” was about where the folks were inside the building. They could not go full dynamic with guns blazing without knowing who was where.

      The shear stupidity of The Trace even asking this question (and thinking others are wondering it, too) boggles the mind. There simply is no way they seriously think this guy just “held off” the cops…they are manipulating the narrative again hoping their readers are stupid enough to believe their basic BS premise.

  5. Well, they could have tossed a flash bang in and stormed the place, but that wouldn’t be kind, nice, or gentle, and criminals just need a hug and to be understood.

    Better to wait and talk him out and pay to incarcerate him for the rest of his life. And pay his court costs.

      • That kind of situation requires a little bit of a faster approach…. you’ve got to cover the ground quickly. I suggest a minimum speed of around 2,800 FPS in fact.

  6. He could have had a 5 shot miltary style assault, bolt action with stripper clips and a bayonet lug (no bayonet because, too scary) and held the cops off for five hours. People don’t like having high speed holes poked in their bodies and also don’t want hostages to get shot if they can negotiate.

  7. Because none of the hostages were able to wait for the opportune moment to strike with their legally carried firearm and stop the threat…

  8. If it had happened here and we learned the guy was not actively shooting, though had hostages, we would form a perimeter. We would attempt to gather as much info as possible from witnesses, and call in SWAT/SRT. Our county does not have a team so we would wait for the state team. Last time it took the 1.5 hours to show up and another hour to be fully prepped and ready. I was told that if a negotiator had been needed it may have taken even longer. Bottom line is, unless the suspect is actively injuring people, you should hold off and make sure you are completely prepared first. If these cops had learned that guy started executing hostages or somthing I promise they would have rushed in come what may.

      • I’m glad he lived for this reason only, they have a bad guy. They can analyze him, stick and poke him with needles and everyone will know he’s a nut and all the gun control won’t stop it unless they come up with a better way to keep the nutter butters from getting guns. When we have a bad guy to fry….it’s better in the long run.

  9. Because he apparently had hostages and wasn’t actively slaughtering them anymore so they most likely used a negotiator to try to avoid further bloodshed

  10. Police inaction does more to exacerbate stand-offs than any other factor.
    In NH we routinely have stand-offs that go on for 12 or more hours. Always some drunk idiot who called an ex to ramble or shot out a streetlight for being too bright.
    Cops roll in with their armored vehicle and close off a few blocks.
    Then around 7 AM the next day the drunk meanders out for the paper completely oblivious to the cops presence having blacked out and passed out the night before.

    The best one last month cops from three towns shut down half a town all day surrounding a house that was empty. The perp having left the day before.
    Shouting orders at an empty house would take many many hours to result in any form of compliance I imagine. But then, I’m no Super Trooper.

    • In Key West over July 4th Weekend, some fool called in a hostage threat and the cops cordoned off an empty home from late evening until sunrise…no one thought to maybe knock on the door?

      • As a level 3 certified thermographer, I can tell you with complete confidence that thermal imaging only sees the temperature on the first 1/1000th of an inch of the surface. The Hollywood scenes of scoping out a building through the walls and windows are not true. Now, some thermal imaging systems can see through glass, but they not standard cameras, and are typically more expensive than standard systems. They are also not the type of camera typically used by police and military teams.

        • So, those when I see footage from a police helicopter’s camera showing a fugitive hiding in a barn or whatever, that is actually fake?

        • Unless the walls and ceiling of the barn are made of thin film plastic, then yeah, its fake…

    • Just watched the HBO special Terror at the Mall about Nairobi. It took the Kenyan military over three and a half hours to decide to enter the mall and when they finally did the soldiers shot at anyone who moved and managed to hit five Nairobi policemen who had entered from a different floor, killing one. In that case at least the police took action in spite of the military control and saved many victims. The stand-off was mostly in the minds of the military commander who was afraid either personally or politically to take action.

      Final result- the military fired a high explosive into the supermarket where the terrorists were waiting and managed to burn a big chunk of the mall to the ground, and to hell with any civilians who might still be alive at the time they acted.

  11. Seems like one man could hold off cops for a long time with nothing more than a .22 revolver. If he has hostages.

    The same people who are crying about the five hour “delay” would be screaming bloody murder if the police had charged in and more people had been killed as a result. I’m no big fan of police in general, but I’ll give them credit: they have a shitty job to do. Seems like if you’re a cop, no matter what decision you make, it’s wrong.

    • ^^^This. It doesn’t mean that cops don’t make some *very* wrong decisions, its just that when 9 and 1/2 out of your 10 available options end with you being lynched by the media, the odds are not in your favor.

      From what I’ve seen, when you’re a cop all of your decisions are wrong. Some are *FAR* more wrong than others, but no matter what you do someone is going to deem it as “the wrong decision”.

      There’s plenty of room for improvement among cops, but let me be the first to say that I couldn’t do their job, nor do I want to.

  12. I guess that the cops aren’t as brave as the courageous social justice warriors of The Trace, who would have burst into the PP chop-shop, dilating and curettaging that evil transsexual to death.

  13. The hostages were the factor, not what he was armed with. Nutjobs waving a weapon around alone and in the open never last long. But put a nujob in a building with hostages and he may only need a pointy stick to hold the cops at bay for a few hours.

  14. I did hear a report that the clinic had ballistic glass, which impaired police sharpshooters from taking a clean shot, even though they could see him. The report said that many PP clinics have “bullet proof” glass. I have no idea if that’s true.

  15. Two Cub Scouts with pocket knives could hold off the Keystone cops off. As soon as their arses are on the line, its not my yob, man.

  16. It could have been worse, much worse. Reading of how the police were being hit by the shooter’s indiscriminate firing through the walls of the building, I’m not clear how it wasn’t worse. Couldn’t he have just as well been firing thusly into the interior of the building?

    This incident will become a well studied case in tactics, I’m sure, but probably not redounding to the local PD’s credit.

  17. The police radio traffic was streamed live as it was happening. The time it took to clear empty rooms was at a glacier pace. They had someone trying to read the blueprints and relay information to the guys clearing the building. There seemed to be a lot of confusion. I only listened to some of it before the guy surrendered.

    • Yeah, real life isn’t like TV and movies, huh?

      They were moving real slow because they did not know where all the “innocents” were in relation to the shooter.

      This was very clear from the live stream you mentioned.

  18. A guy with a hunting rifle an optics can hold the police at bay just as well as an ‘assault weapon.’ A guy with a handgun can kill hostages just as easily (can even hold them with one hand).

    Of course if someone in there had a gun there would have been a chance to fight back and not wait for the cops, but whatever…

  19. Those mags were grandfathered, not “outlawed”. There’s probably millions of them in the state, especially with Magpul’s whole” air drop” campaign to flood the state before they left.

    • Given that I have yet to see a GI magazine with a “born on” date, I guarantee you that thousands of them are being shipped in every day. I know I would ignore that particular law, unless they catch you with a receipt in your hand, they have zero way to prove a crime occurred. I’d get a PO Box across the border. Set up my Brownells account to ship there, and then go pick up any magazines I wanted.

      • GI magazines made since before the CAGE number became required have been stamped with the month/year they were made. Center started date stamping magazines in the late 80s and I have OKay’s on hand dated ’91.

        If you have undated, or ‘pre-ban’ dated GI magazines, they are quite valuable for the folks in the ban states

  20. Well it’s a no-brainer. The cops little shotgun equipped, camera wielding robot doesn’t have snow tires!
    Scoffs….. how hard is that to figure out?

  21. He was able to hold off police because the police were trying to evacuate the building and protect innocents from his random gunfire (sometime through room walls) before storming him. He surrendered before they had a chance to storm his position, otherwise he’d probably be dead now.

  22. wait – it’s Colorado, right? Maybe they were waiting on perp to smoke a little smoke and relax before they sauntered in…just sayin’!

    • That whack job needed more than ganja. He needed some Seroquel or one of many drugs used to treat schizophrenia.

    • Others than I have come to the same conclusion of wondering why this nutjob wound up moving from North Carolina to Colorado.

      Does “Legalized Marijuana” ring a bell?

  23. I don’t know, maybe they didn’t want to needlessly jeopardize their lives and the lives of everyone inside? I thought Bloomberg and his well-paid lackies were devoted to saving lives.

  24. You don’t need an ” assault weapon “. But a couple of good bolt action rifles did quite well in the Texas tower case. It took hours before two civilians and a policeman killed the shooter.

    • Heck, a pump action shotgun with slugs would keep everyone back. A lever action carbine would have done the same thing. A Winchester 30/30 and a box of ammo and a person could accomplish almost the same thing as he did at Planned Parenthood as he did with an “assault rifle”

  25. Sadly a cop DID rush in and died as a result. It seems to me the po-leece response was pathetic-3 dead and 9 shot. Or get them boyz an AK… BTW-what happened with the Oregon Community college shootings? Because they couldn’t get traction on a poor downtrodden IRC boy living with his mommy? Too satanist? Too lefty? Victims too white/redneck/conservative?

  26. Why haven’t they identified the firearm yet?

    They’re all happy with a fake “AK-47” story and won’t release that info until the media frenzy dies down. Then it’ll turn out it was a .22LR or a bolt action rifle.

  27. PP’s abattoir is a hardened facility. It works to disadvantage when the threat’s inside and the only means of defense outside.

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