museum

By Brandon via concealednation.org

A 31-year-old Marine Corps veteran and mother was visiting the 9/11 memorial in New York City on Saturday with a friend, and paid the price for asking Ground Zero security guards this question: “Where can I store my 9mm and .380 caliber pistols?” . . .

Elizabeth Anne Enderli, who did a tour in Kuwait in 2004, is a Texan with a Texas concealed carry permit. Traveling from Houston and landing in Philadelphia, Enderli followed the laws all the way. Her firearms were kept in a lockbox during travel and once they arrived in Philly, they rented a car and drove to New York.

Thinking that her concealed carry permit was no problem while visiting The Big Apple, she wasn’t thinking she was breaking the law. If she had, the question posed to the security guards would have likely gone unasked.

This sounds very familiar, doesn’t it? Oh, and here as well.

“This whole thing is, pardon my language, bulls–t,” friend Aimey Richardson told nypost.com at Manhattan Criminal Court.

Richardson told The Post that she and Enderli always have their firearms on them.

“Our husbands don’t give us a hug and a kiss, they pat us down to make sure we’re armed,” she said. “We’re not allowed to go out without them.”

While that may be true, the rules change drastically once a person sets foot in a state such as New York. For anyone reading who may not know, the only time you can carry a firearm in The Empire State is when you have a New York concealed carry permit. That’s it. Reciprocity does not exist.

Enderli was arraigned on weapons-possession charges and released on her own recognizance Sunday, after spending the night in jail. She could face up to three years in prison for the charges.

While the state of Texas has recognized New York permits since 2006, the road obviously does not go both ways. This is why education is so important while traveling. There are great apps available, as well as interactive reciprocity maps that are very useful tools to check out before crossing state lines.

We’ll see what happens with this particular case and wish Enderli the best. Maybe, just maybe, some change will come due to these recent cases involving honest, law-abiding citizens bringing firearms across invisible borders.

Very doubtful, especially for a state like New York.

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88 Responses to Texan Brings Concealed Pistol to 9/11 Memorial

        • … Do not carry in NYC or NJ . . . Unless you want to commit a crime. Which, as anyone could tell from the facts and circumstances, could have been accomplished by these two perps (I mean [typically] law abiding citizens) at any time since they retrieved their luggage in PA.

          Logic says: No one can protect you on an individual level and it is WRONGFUL, not just ‘wrong’ for anyone to claim that they can. You are no more protected by them, then rather you benefit from another persons lack of immediate desire to do you harm [TERMS, J.M. Thomas R., 2012].

        • Joe – You’re missing the point. STF out/way from commie NE. There is NOTHING in NYC a free man needs.

      • Only rule I have is; I don’t tell anyone I’m carrying and if I get to a spot where the authorities are checking I walk away. It’s not that important to me to enter that particular location, there are plenty of other places to be that are more attractive then jail and the same with confrontations with muggers or thieves, shoot first or scare them off and don’t hang around for paperwork to fill out. This only applies to states that will not accept my CWL, of course. I have no problem with the rest and will fulfill my obligations there, to their satisfaction.

      • US Customs needs to setup border crossings between New York/New Jersey and the United States. It would help US citizens understand that when leaving the US that the laws are different, that people in these two young countries are not as free as us.

        • LOL exactly. I was there a few years ago and visited the Empire State Building to check out the view from the top. There’s a metal detector and such to get in. I put my less-than-3″ folding blade, lock back, wood handle pocket knife in the bowl along with my phone and whatnot, thinking absolutely nothing of it, and the security folks just about peed themselves. “WTF, you can’t have that! This is probably illegal! blah blah blah.” Really condescendingly they asked me where I was from, in that tone like I’m some redneck from some backwards state, and I said “America; I didn’t realize I had left it.” …of course I also mentioned that I was from freaking San Francisco, California. Not exactly a cow town…

          Considering how often I was going to NYC for work the last few years, I’m just relieved I didn’t have to spend the night in jail for refusing to consent to a “stop and frisk” illegal search. F that noise.

  1. So tired of BS press coverage “this time a Texas woman treating the 9/11 memorial like an Old West saloon.” WTF

  2. As a veteran she is completely housed in NY. They hate veterans at the DA’S office more than they hate white supremacist wackos.
    And Cuomo is no Christy. So no pardon.
    The charges could be worse if she had>10 round mags with more the 7 rounds in the guns.
    It is not even safe to drive through NY with guns because they pretend that federal law doesn’t protect those passing through.

    • New York mag capacity is 10 round mags only. That was changed after the police realized they would be included in the 7 round only rule.

  3. LEOs to my knowledge covered under LEOSA (Federal Safety Act) when traveling ccw must adhere to states magazine capacity laws. These states are paying the price for progressive bullshit belief . Crime rates skyrocketing.

    • This is a great case to point out that LEOSA is unconstitutional. “Pigs are not more equal” so to speak.

      • I think the polite way to phrase that is to quote Orwell, “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

        • Yes, but it was the pigs in the book who thought they were more equal and in real life it is the police (referred to as pigs, by some) who think they’re more equal than others. He worded it perfectly.

    • “How the hell could anyone think NYC would honor any concealed carry permit”

      That is a simple question to answer friend. The veteran thought she had individual rights because she individually pledged her life in an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, but didn’t understand what she was really signing up to serve for. She just encountered the other enemy that she swore to defend from, and the domestic enemies make the foreign savages look like angels.

      • For any law not pertaining to real harm ignorance should not only be an excuse but a test to the value of such a law.
        If an alien being from Uranus landed tomorrow what reason would it have to expect mere possession of a thing could be an offense under the law?
        That should be enough to render any such law void. At the very least enough to make anyone who supports such laws to feel like a world class tool.

        See this metal box that does nothing? Yeah, that’s gonna send your ass to prison. And ignorance is no excuse!

  4. That’s a shame. Know before you go.

    I want her to get off, because I disagree with the law, but I’m also not fond of people wandering around clueless, either.

    She knew enough to research flight storage protocol. She holds a CHL, so the topic of reciprocity was covered in class. Plus, New York is, well, New York. They’re a punchline and a pariah state for many reasons, many of which are common knowledge nationwide.

    Good luck, ma’am. Get a lawyer, and get a good one.

    • I want her to not accept a carveout from the DA which is going to be offered.

      I want her to go to a supportive legal aid entity and take this to trial

      I want her legal aid attorney to use the interpretation of the recent gay marriage SCOTUS decision that was crammed down the throat of the whole country as a means to justify universal carry across all jurisdictions in the US.

        • This line of reasoning is not as impossible as you would imply by your hyperbole.

          Read the SCOTUS decision on forcing gay marriage on all of the states in its entirety.

      • Good luck finding a court in the NY area that’s going to read the SCOTUS decision that way. Even if a case made it all the way up to SCOTUS again, there is no way they would look at a gun case the same way.

      • I want her legal aid attorney to use the interpretation of the recent gay marriage SCOTUS decision that was crammed down the throat of the whole country

        Why do bigots have such a hard time understanding the 14th Amendment? I’m sure a few decades ago, you would have been ranting about how the courts “crammed interracial marriage down our throats” too.

  5. “While that may be true, the rules change drastically once a person sets foot in a state such as New York.” – Gotta avoid Constitution free zones.

  6. Illinois offers the same reciprocity for other states’ carry permits as New York: Zero. The only real difference is it’s actually possible for a non-resident of Illinois to get an Illinois permit.

    • There is one exceptiom. Your out of state permit is valid in your car. Makes it easy to transit around the Chicago area between Indiana and Wisconsin. I don’t think my bladder capacity is sufficient for even an east-west crossing any more.

  7. How can a gun owner be so ignorant of the laws around the country? I know you may live in a state where such things don’t happen but come on!

    • She lives in a state that requires it’s residents to get a permit to carry a gun. She should have known better. I agree the law sucks, but the law’s the law and if you are going to carry a gun, know the damn law.

      It’s things like this that make gun owners look like ignorant hicks.

  8. I am no lawyer, but these are the exact types of cases that get laws changed. Anything on a legal fund for these two? I would happily contribute.

  9. It’s bullshit she got arrested.

    However honestly you have to be flat dumb or crazy to think NYC is OK with concealed carry. First, look who runs it. Second, Google is your friend.

  10. Why am I not feeling terribly sympathetic?

    This chick travels to NYC, carries concealed after guessing that her carry permit was valid outside the state it was issued in without verifying, THEN gets arrested because she failed to do her homework.

    Honestly, I’d have less of an issue with this if she knowingly and willingly violated an unconstitutional law, but getting popped because you’re a dumbass is grounds for IGOTD in my opinion.

  11. I’m seriously torn on this one.

    On the one hand, it’s a revolting way to treat a veteran and, more generally, someone who’s apparently trying to do the right thing.

    On the other hand … We often talk here about how the “other side” must live in a bubble or something. Well, that finger can point both ways and you need to know the law of the land where you stand, not where you stood. Especially when it comes to guns.

    So I think I’m just going to sigh, shake my head, and wish for a better world while I write my congressman. And buy a lower online just in case it might help add to New York’s general state of apoplexy.

    On that note, anyone know if she has a legal defense fund set up yet? I think even if she did have insurance this sure sounds like an illegal act and so wouldn’t be covered.

  12. I’m so paranoid of running afoul of something like this. Crime punishable by up to 3 three years jail time. They will offer her no jail for guilty plea. That means that someone who has sacrificed for her country loses her right to possess, to protect herself and her family. You can criticize her for not knowing something that seems so obvious, but it scares the hell out of me how easy it is to lose a constitutionally guaranteed right.

  13. You have to deal with the world as it is. If you haven’t figured out by now that you can’t bring a gun into NYC then perhaps you are not responsible enough to carry.

    I get it, NY City and State should be forced to recognized out of state permits just like Montana has to recognize out of state gay marriages but until that’s the way it is you are responsible to know what the local laws are.

  14. I saw New York and NYC a few times back when I was young.
    I’ve got no desire to go back, knowing I’d have to give up my rights just to see a few sights.

  15. Have the Texas attorney general and governor said anything about this?
    It’d be great to have one of them publicly state that Texas will not extradite this woman for doing something that is not illegal in most of the country.

    Too bad for her the governor of New York isn’t running for the republican nomination. Then he’d be jumping at the chance to pretend he favors gun rights.

  16. I feel bad for my fellow Texan, but isn’t this like getting too close to Iran or North Korean border and being surprised when they imprison you? Stay out of regressive, totalitarian $#!^holes, folks.

  17. My understanding is that a NY State CCW isn’t valid in NYC either–because of a carve-out in the statute, the only recognized permit is one issued by the NYPD (good luck with that).

    Second, the two additional cases cited both involved NJ, not NYC, yet there are any number of NY cases. One was a woman who asked the security at the Empire State Building where she could secure her firearm, another was another veteran, but I don’t recall his details. There are any number of people trapped at NY airports for declaring their firearms at the check-in counter, FOPA notwithstanding. Most of these folks are offered a plea to a misdemeanor, a fine, and loss of their firearm that avoids the lifetime ban and is cheaper than going to trial.

    • That is correct. My CCW was issued by an upstate NY county, and is still not valid in NYC. Even then I’m not actually supposed to carry, since the judge in my county won’t issue them without being stamped “restricted to hunting and target shooting”, but that’s the only way that anyone can legally own a pistol in this state.

      I hope she fights this and wins without needing some sort of veteran carve out. The only way I see NY laws changing are through the courts. The voting power of NYC, Albany, Buffalo, and Syracuse outweighs the rest of the state, and they will never vote pro-gun.

  18. We need National Reciprocity bad. Not only to fix issues like this, but because the flood of liberal tears that would ensue could solve California’s drought. Additionally, National reciprocity needs to include the type of ammunition and magazine size. If it’s legal under federal law then you’re good to go. That oughtta make em cry.

  19. Ignorance is not bliss in this case.

    It sucks she is coming up against unjust laws, but a little research and common sense would have kept her out of the legal system.

  20. IMO, if the government (or even a private entity) wants to ban an item that every American citizen has the right to own, then that government (or private entity) has the obligation to provide secure storage on-site.

    Don’t want guns in post offices, court house, 9/11 memorials, or movie theaters? You have the obligation to provide lockers at the entrance. None of that, “No guns allowed on our property” if you’re running a business open to the public. “Please check your weapons at the door,” has a much nicer ring to it.

    If you think a government or a business has the right to say “No guns,” why does that same business or government not have the right to say “No coloreds,” or “No Irish,” or “No left-handed”?

    • Right for public property, wrong for private property. The Constitutions stops at the property owner’s door. It only binds government officials. That why I laugh at those who call for private law enforcement. The Bill of Rights wouldn’t apply to them. That is why corporate security can search your desk, check on your computet or tap your company phone without your knowledge or permission. It has been a goal of Progressives to apply the Bill of Rights to Individuals which would effectively negate your property rights.

  21. the only time you can carry a firearm in The Empire State is when you have a New York concealed carry permit.

    It’s even worse than that. The only time you can carry in NYC is when you have a NYC permit. And NYC doesn’t even recognize New York State permits! So a person can have a valid New York State permit and still be arrested in NYC for carrying. Ain’t that a kick in the nuts?

  22. I visited the NYC 9/11 site memorial museum a month or two ago. I brought my 3″ fixed blade in my pocket with me into the museum. I was and am certain it is NYC-legal as a concealed fixed blade under 4″ in blade length. I’ve done plenty of research on both what the laws regarding the carry of knives are and (more importantly) how the laws are interpreted by the NYPD. I carry it with me every day in my right pocket and the thought to leave it at home never crossed my mind, or I would have. As I knew it was legal to carry I made no attempt to conceal it as I removed the contents of my pockets in order to go through the metal detector. When they saw it, a security guard pulled me aside. He asked if I was police or military. “No.” With my 91-year-old grandmother behind me, he informed me the knife was illegal. I told him that I was confident that it was in fact legal, and he offered to take me over to a group of NYPD officers across the room to ask their opinion. No thank you, sir! I considered that there was a good possibility the cops did not understand the law and I’d end up in court or even in jail exonerating myself by pointing out the law. I just wanted to take my grandma to the museum. The guard said I could leave the knife with them, and gave me a paper ticket that I gave to a guard a few hours later as I was exiting the museum. I waited a minute or two, and he retrieved the knife (only partially resheathed) and walked me to the door where he handed it to me. If I hadn’t had my nice 91-year-old grandma with me I might have been in trouble. I was polite, courteous, and fully compliant. The guard decided to use his discretion and common sense, which is not something one can count on.

    I was not asked to hand over my unit of pepper spray and I carried it with me inside the museum.

    I love that the friend in the article said “our husbands pat us down for guns… to make sure we’re armed”. And she carries both a 9mm and a backup .380! She’s just my type. Good on these people, who unfortunately didn’t do all the research necessary to make sure they were in compliance with the firearms laws everywhere they visited. Perhaps as a female veteran from Texas with a family they’ll be sympathetic and let her off easy. She’s guilty of nothing but ignorance and hurt no one. If I was the security guard and I had the ability to do so, I would have quietly sent her away with a warning to be discreet and leave the guns in her hotel room safe until it was time for her to carefully leave the city, as her carry permit is not valid within it. There’s no good done by arresting her, and I’d encourage her to come back to the museum without prohibited items.

  23. How many politicians getting shot do you think it will take to change this so called law?

    If suggest every f’ing one of them that voted for it, even if it really took less.

  24. How stupid do you have to be to not only carry a gun into NYC, but ask one of the cops standing their about it. I mean come on was she trying to get arrested to prove a point? Does common sense not exist anymore?

    I’m sure she will be pardoned or slapped on the wrist but it will cost her a bundle in legal fees.

    • “….. was she trying to get arrested to prove a point?”

      That is my take on this, upon considering the description of this Marine and the incident.

      If that is the case, I don’t think she’s stupid in having the will to sacrifice herself for the cause. Ill-advised, yes; but only so much can be accomplished if all we do is hide from the statists and b**ch about it online.

  25. Democrat Slave America, and Conservative Free America. The fact that this woman didn’t know the difference reflects very poorly on her intelligence.

  26. She might be covered under HR218 if she holds the proper MOS from the Marine Corps. I’m able to carry in all 50 states under that because I was an MP in the Army. I still have an enhanced CCP for MS because it lets me ignore no weapons signs in MS and it was free because of my disabled veteran status.

    • Some how your post managed to make me even more dissatisfied with our current lot. Thanks. I disdain carve-outs and exceptions that served to undermine the best excuses for abridging our rights, yet still seem to make no difference.

  27. There is plenty of resources available to determine where your permits are good in. The AGs office has them online as does a variety of other online references.
    There is ZERO, make that BIG FAT ZERO excuse for carrying in a state, ESPECIALLY NY. for Christ sake and then claiming stupidity. If you’re going to carry, carry responsibly so we all look good instead of incompetent.

    • Doesn’t the Second amendment nullify the carry ban in NY? Oh, wait, I should know better than to start a conversation with someone who supports unconstitutional arguments by calling people stupid for thinking the constitution exists…

      I’d love to see TX take a stand against NY and any FED involvement for extradition on the matter.

      Let NY drop the charges, or start a second civil war. Which will it be? If any State might do it, it’s TX…

  28. This was either a bad case of the stupids, or a trolling expedition for a new case to take to SCOTUS – in which event, its a brave case of the stupids.

  29. “For anyone reading who may not know, the only time you can carry a firearm in The Empire State is when you have a New York concealed carry permit.”

    This is not completely correct. Out of state LEOs are covered under federal statue, but the magazine limit is not clear concerning out of state LEOs. So, I just plan on staying away from NY myself!!!

  30. That is sick. They seriously need to bring common sense back. This is complete BS. Even Christie is having enough sense to look into pardoning offenders. No sure way to kill tourism than to imprison people who aren’t used to the local laws when no harm was intended. Guilty until proven innocent.

  31. Funny thing about Floriduh… One of a few states left where you can’t OC, and the argument they like to use? “Tourists would be scared.” But the tourists are mostly coming from places where they could OC, no permit even… They’re annoyed at having to give up their rights to go on vacation. It’s actually driving them away that they CAN’T OC.

  32. Actually I’d say that reciprocity does exist, it’s just that the NY powers that be choose to pretend that it doesn’t and no one has called them on it.

  33. Back in 1987 I was to be assigned to Ft Hamilton Army post in Brooklyn as a recruiter. I had been stationed at Ft Devens Massachusetts and owned a 357 magnum and even had a ccw permit from MA. I checked the NY laws and even spoke with 1 Police Plaza about traveling. They told me do not bring my gun into their city. I informed them the gun by serial number would be listed on my travel orders and military orders in general. They could care less. I reminded them these were military orders. Again they didn’t care. They finally said” don’t get caught with it outside your post or housing area”. What a nice welcome. I see nothing changes.

  34. It is FAR past time we file a class action law suit against ALL of these Nazi states. ALL of these laws are in DIRECT violation of the constitution on MANY levels. And EVERY supreme court justice that has decided in favor of these illegal laws needs to be impeached for violating the constitution.

  35. LEOSA trumps NYC and NY state BULLSH*T.
    It’s a damm shame that ONLY the rich and politically connected get NYC carry permits.

    • You are spot on brother as police officers both active and retired we are not WELCOMED under Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act HR218 in NYC which is so wrong as the law allows not denying in any place in the United States. Call New York State Safe Act hotline and you will be informed to stay out of NYC under your HR218 but welcome anywhere else in the state.

      • I wish you felt as strongly about we lesser-humans as you do about your fellow “brothers.” Modern cops, breaking barriers and looking out for “the little guy.”

  36. People in NYC pee themselves over things like guns, knives, pepper spray that most of us real Americans think nothing of, glad I left that place 35 years ago.

  37. I was born and raised in NYC a and moved out in the early 70’s. Back then they denied gun ownership to everyone except the very wealthy or politically connected yet gun crimes and high criminal activities were the reasons we moved.
    All the police sites warn you not to go into NYC with a gun even though you are allowed in all 50 states under LEOSA
    HR 218. So if they don’t even respect the federal law which exempts police officers no one has a chance unless your political connected. As one person stated they are so scared to death of guns, knifes and pepper spray while the rest of the nation allows this due to its extremely liberal control.

  38. I’m sorry, and I feel for her, but seriously – what an idiot. I had the same Texas CHL class she did, and I damn well know better than to carry a gun to NYC. What permit holder does not have enough sense to understand that different states have different laws?

    I hate that NY is a tryanny that scoffs at the Constitution, I really do, but the law is the law and gun owners that don’t know the law make us all look bad. Thanks for becoming another statistical argument against us dumbass.

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