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“Since this lawsuit was filed, I have carried in my daughter’s school for hours with the only issue being the school principal calling the sheriff department in an attempt to have the deputy harass me. Thankfully, the deputy knew the laws well and did not oblige her. I went about my business and no one was afraid, no one ran out screaming in terror, no one approached me to make their disapproval of my actions known. The school’s entire stance is one on emotion from what I have seen. And as we have seen in this case, emotions do not hold up in the court of law.” – Kenneth Herman in District will appeal judge’s ruling on guns in school buildings [at mlive.com]

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44 Responses to Quote of the Day: Knowing the Law Edition

  1. Sorry but in today’s America, emotions *are* the rule of law. Screaming soccer moms have made it that way… #forthechildren #lookatthisbaby #gunsrbadmmmkay?

    • “Post a pic of the principal. Is she hot or just a harpie?”

      Dirk, a hottie can easily be a harpie…

      It’s like that old saying: “Even though she’s beautiful, someone, somewhere, is tired of putting up with her bullsh!t.”

  2. And why should the school board care how much the court costs are. The tax payers are footing the bill.

    • School choice is the answer for that. It may be taxpayer money but the money still comes out of the school budget. You can already get a better education for half the cost at a private school (except for the fact that you’ll have to foot the bill yourself instead of the taxpayers).

        • Home schooling is probably better yet, but it generally requires one stay at home parent. And you still have to pay the taxes for the public school. ‘School choice’ is when the government gives you a voucher for 2/3 of what they spend per student in public schools and you take it to pay for a much better private school. Obviously certain teachers’ unions and school administrators don’t like that idea.

      • I sent my kids to private school, but I still had to pay school taxes.
        I’m retired now, and I’m still paying school taxes……. WTF

        • Yeah, that sucks! How about folks who have no children, have to pay for their neighbors 7 kids going to school, while the parents of the 7 kids probably are not even paying any taxes, because of the governments desire to have parents have more children they can afford!

        • That’s what happens when you live in a society. Everyone shares the cost of roads,schools and administration. You could have lived all alone on a secluded mountain, but you wanted the luxury of nearby business and hospitals.

      • Michigan has a school of choice program where parents can send their kids to their choice of schools in the district, or in some cases in another district, the state funding follows the kid. Problem is with issues like this one there’s probably little to no difference between schools or districts.

        Wife and I homeschooled our two youngest, hiring a tutor to come in and teach what we could not. Best decision we ever made, turns out many colleges actively recruit homeschoolers by waving tuition money in front of them.

  3. From the Mlive source article,

    “… the district would continue to lockdown buildings when guns are discovered on the property, because [Clio, Michigan Public Schools Superintendent] said the firearms upset students and disrupt the learning process.”

    And how has the Superintendent determined this?

    Regardless, if a parent wore a shirt with a Russian flag on it and that allegedly “upsets students and disrupts the learning process”, would the school prohibit shirts with Russian flags? Or would the school instruct students and staff to calm down and carry on? Now that would be facilitating a real learning process.

      • Of course specious lock-downs disrupt the learning process. You are missing the larger picture: it is totally okay to disrupt the learning process as long as school staff (e.g. the local “ruling class”) is the entity doing the disrupting. But if a plebe disregards the ruling class, well that is a problem of epic proportions and the local “ruling class” must pull out all the stops to nip it in the bud. We cannot have plebes coloring outside the lines, now can we?

    • They’ve ordered students with NRA shirts to change it or be suspended from school.

      Don’t ever doubt the stupidity of hoplophobes…

  4. “It’s unfortunate to ask school officials to determine if it’s a good person or not,” Spears said after the ruling.

    Pro-tip: person isn’t shooting at you? Good person. At least good enough person.
    On the flip side, those bad persons, they don’t give two sloppy shits if you ban them from carrying. That’s kind of the point.

    • And we have to take that quote a step further because every person who enters a school building could have concealed firearms as well as arson and/or explosive materials. How do school officials determine whether or not every person walking in is a “good person” or not?

  5. Unless they changed federal law, anyone other than criminals and or police can legally carry inside the 1,000 foot death zone of a school.
    I think from now on everyone should call “gun free zones” “death zones” or “federal death zones” respectively..
    If you go by the letter, it’s legal to have a gun in the home, but anyone living inside the 1,000 federal death zone of a school is breaking the law simply carrying a firearm from their house to their car.

    The irony is how plain clothes or off duty poleece walk right in to pick up their kids with holstered side arm open carrying on hip with no issues, but heaven forbid someone with a CCW forget to remove their pistol and lay it on the side of the road (outside 1,000 feet) before parking on school property to pick up their children..

    I guess the Feds believe that it’s ok to funnel the bad guys to the path of least resistance to do their shootings. We just have to hope since every school is a federally protected death zone, that the bad guy will have so many to pick from that he will choose a school your kids don’t attend because he’s lazy and another school is closer..

    • Not to pick nits but I think you meant to say:

      “Unless they changed federal law, anyone other than criminals and or police can NOT legally carry inside the 1,000 foot death zone of a school.”

      I eventually got your gist though… and agree.

    • The feral law specifically excludes those licensed by the state to carry.

      That’s one problem with Constitutional Carry; if your state doesn’t issue licenses, you can’t get a license to carry in a gun free school zone.
      So, until you get the feral government to admit it was reaching WAY beyond its constitutional boundaries when it enacted that travesty…

  6. Doofus thinks this arbitrary and capricious rule, made by persons with zero expertise on the subject or authority to do so, contributes to the students’ safety? Has he heard of Columbine? Sandy Hook? Va Tech? How in the world can he think making the same rules that all of those places had in place at the time of those tragedies will help a damn thing? If you examine each tragedy and look for something which could be changed and might have made a difference, then scratch out those which would be prohibitively expensive or violate constitutional rights, the answer will eventually hit you right between the eyes.

  7. Here’s another option. We talk about not going into these “death zones” ourselves…

    The government “school” system is even worse. Not only is it a “gun free” death zone, just waiting for a spree killer – but in the meantime the children are being indoctrinated to be socialist slaves, medicated to make them mindlessly compliant (or quite possibly violent), and actively forbidden to have any original thoughts, be critical of any “authority,” and several thousand other things you really don’t want your children exposed to. The spree killer is a rare occurrence… the zombie indoctrination and destruction of intelligence is carried out hour by hour, year after year.

    Why would you send your children into such a total death zone? Find an alternative… they exist.

    • @MamaLiberty: Good points. Though I suspect the alternatives are home school or religious institutions. Home schools where you can teach your children what they should be learning without the Socialist indoctrination, hopefully. Though probably not the case in many instances. And don’t children also need exposure to other children and other thought processes that they may not get in a home school ? The other choice seems to be schools based in Religious institutions where they will learn a different type of indoctrination which might be almost as bad and the one taught in the public schools. What other choices are there ? Are there any Libertarian private schools out there that are not connected with a religious institution ? Seems to me that a good school system let the students explore and discuss many different kinds of social and religious theories and then decide for themselves which one they want to adopt for themselves.

      • Homeschool and private schools are exactly what the people involved make them… and the homeschooled children I know (there are many here) are well “socialized.” They do things together in various groupings, constantly. They are socialized in non-aggression, cooperation, voluntary association, having real fun doing things they enjoy… they are anything but isolated. And a big part of most homeschooling is to encourage all kinds of curiosity, independent and critical thinking, exploration of the known and unknown… besides real science, math, and so forth… instead of Johnny has two mommies and how to put a condom on a cucumber – regardless of what the child or parents want.

        Some may certainly seek to indoctrinate their children in a particular religious belief or political idealization, but why would anyone object to that? We each have the responsibility to teach our children what we believe they need to learn. Homeschoolers are not attempting to impose those things on others, by force, fraud and theft…

      • If you’re going to be a screwed up moron, it’s not going to be because of religion. It’s going to be because you were destined to be one.
        If it’s because of your parents, then they’re going to screw you up just as bad without religion.
        There’s no Christian religion that teaches people to be stuck up assholes looking down their nose at everyone else. Those people are just assholes, plain and simple.
        It’s not different than all the atheists out there that make “science” their god when they know as much about science as any other MSNBC viewer.

  8. Pretty sure no one would’ve known, or cared, had he been concealed carrying. Hence yet another benefit of concealed carry versus open carry.

    I hope the district fails to overturn the ruling. But at the same time, someone concealed carrying would’ve never had to even go to court because no one would’ve noticed.

      • So, follow the law and be treated like an outlaw or break the law and no one will know and no harm will be done…. Hmmmm.

    • In Michigan, it is unlawful to carry concealed in schools. Open carry, by those who hold carry permits, is lawful on school grounds.

      Open carry is thus the only lawful choice.

      • But isn’t this law itself unlawful? I ready somewhere about “…the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” It seems that is in conflict with “concealed carry is illegal.” For a thing to be supposedly illegal seems kinda infringed to me…

  9. So the headline should read, “District Continues to Waste Taxpayers’ Money; Pursues Pointless Appeal”.

    • While your comment is much more accurate and true, the school board is appealing the ruling because it FEELS good.

      • No, they are pursuing it because if they don’t, it will help set precedence. Someone else could then cite that case during a different case. It could build to something bigger. The leftist masters cannot allow that to happen, how can they they control the sheep if the sheep are armed? Always remember, Stalin does not have enough Organs. (Look it up.)

        • If the school district is pursuing an appeal to set precedent, they are taking an awfully dangerous gamble. If the appeals court finds in favor of the open carrier, that will be binding precedent statewide as far as I know. I imagine the current ruling is only persuasive authority to other courts in other districts of the state.

    • Nope. Supreme Court struck that down. If you have a permit, you’re good to go… from the FEDERAL law. State laws differ.

  10. Went to parents’ orientation at my daughter’s new high school this morning. Upon reaching the gate, remembered I had my folder and my 646 in the pocket. Cross street to parking lot, open car door, retrieve gun box,open and slide items in, relock car and return to school building. Spent next hour and a half wondering if anyone had noticed my actions, and whether or not my weapons were safe. Thankfully they were, but this is getting to be a pain in the a$$. Trusted by state~ one gets a permit……but no badge? Gotta keep a leash on the puppy.

  11. School board thinks they are above following State law? What else is new, the sky is still blue, grass is still green, hoplophobes pick and choose which laws they want to follow.

  12. Well, if the Principle is going to keep calling the sheriff every time a person Openly carry’s in the school, shouldn’t they be charge with miss used of City/county service? Not Fine for the school system,but also for the person as well.. They lost in court.. Move on, and learn for what your mistakes are…
    Stop wasting Tax payers money.

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