Stag Arms Model 9 9mm AR-15 (courtesy ammoland.com)

Stag Arms is a relatively well-known AR-15 manufacturer with a big presence in the 3-gun community. So it was a bit of a shock when word came that the ATF had seized 3,000 of their AR-15 rifle lower receivers over a legal compliance issue that’s usually covered in the first five minutes of any “Gun Industry 101” class. The complaint from the ATF alleges that these thousands of lower receivers were just lying around the shop completely un-serialized, which is a huge mistake if true. Stag’s answer to the ATF on that allegation doesn’t fill me with confidence . . .

From the Hartford Business Journal:

During a routine inspection of Stag Arm’s facilities in August, the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives found a large cache of receivers — the part of the gun that houses the trigger and firing mechanism — without serial numbers, which is a violation of the National Firearms Act.

The ATF returned to Stag in October to seize the gun parts, as well as documents, photos, and personnel records that could relate to any illegal activity at the New Britain company including unauthorized trafficking of guns, according to a search warrant filing made by ATF Special Agent Joanna Lambert.

On May 6, the U.S. Attorney asked the U.S. District Court for Connecticut to allow the federal government to permanently keep the seized guns. As of May 14, Stag did not reply to that civil filing.

In August, Stag Arms claimed two separate reasons for the missing serial numbers: the employee who normally engraves the numbers was on vacation, and the unserialized gun parts were sometimes used as replacements for ones that came off the line broken, according to documents filed by the U.S. Attorney for Connecticut. Either way, both reasons given by Stag Arms would violate federal law, the U.S. Attorney wrote, because all gun parts must be stamped with serial numbers within seven days of their manufacture.

In a highly regulated business like the gun industry, you really need to dot every I and cross every ‘t’. Wilson Combat, for example, adds in a serialization routine to the CNC machine program that pokes the final hole in the frame completing the 1911 firearm. That guarantees that every firearm has a serial number nearly the instant it legally becomes a firearm. The idea that a major manufacturer would have thousands — thousands — of firearms just lying around the shop without a serial number for an indeterminate amount of time is mind-boggling.

“Our serial number guy was on vacation”? Seriously? That’s the excuse for breaking a fundamental rule of firearms manufacturing? As ridiculous as that is, it’s still a better excuse than “We use these to replace broken ones,” which indicates that their violation of the law was willful and pre-meditated instead of a one-off occurrence.

Stay tuned for more information.

Recommended For You

120 Responses to BREAKING: ATF Seizes 3,000 Guns from Stag Arms

    • Yeah. If there are no school shootings with fully automatic Bushmaster assault rifles this summer, the credit rests squarely on the shoulders of these fascist accountants brave agents.

      • What do you want to bet that a few months from now some .gov alphabet agency starts making noise about how Mexican drug cartels are murdering people with un-serialized fully automatic “ghost guns” that mysteriously migrated across the border?

        • 20 seconds with a file and the serial number means nothing to a criminal.
          While stag probably broke the law I don’t know why the law needs to be written that way.

    • Ya, the jerk has once again circled.

      Nice low-hanging fruit there, hope it didn’t hurt the ATF agents getting up off their hoverounds to grab it. Maybe if they were using a hurry-cane instead they might have caught up with the full-auto weapons that they allowed to deport themselves to Mexico.

  1. As ridiculous as that is…

    it will never be as ridiculous as the idea that it’s illegal to build a product and sell it to a willing customer without a government permission slip.

    • ^^^^^ This !!!!!

      Why is a tax collection agency seizing firearms when the tax collection agency has no evidence that the firearm manufacturer failed to pay any taxes?

      More to the point, why is a tax collection agency dictating how a manufacturer manufactures their product?

      • “Why is a tax collection agency seizing firearms when the tax collection agency has no evidence that the firearm manufacturer failed to pay any taxes?”

        Because the evidence is the 3,000 receivers they saw on inspection with no serial numbers?

        • You fail at seeing the bigger picture. Go watch a Bill Maher marathon and just get the rest of the brainwashing over with.

        • and…… the Fed is insane! now if they were sold without numbers then we have a problem. or do we… the ATF allows you to build any semi-auto firearm you want. zero numbers required if its for personal use.

          wierd how they draw lines.

      • The firearms industry is slowing down and they have a budget to maintain. Time to go shake down some manufacturers for some “protection money.”

    • +100. I get the tax and control of weapons under interstate commerce, which is the only constitutional reason the BATFE exists. However if the product manufactured is never sold across state lines then why do they have any say in the process? Why does the federal government have the power to tell anyone they can’t manufacturer their own full auto weapon or demand a tax be paid on an SBR if it all the parts are made in house and never cross state lines?

      • Interstate commerce is so grossly misapplied in cases that it has become commonplace to press a local case into federal court. With their reasoning, the aluminum was mined or recycled in another state, so it is under federal jurisdiction. There is nothing in the clause that draws the line between raw material and finished product.

        • Oh, it’s worse than that. The SCOTUS didn’t even consider moving raw materials in Wickard v. Filburn, the case that “made it legal” (to paraphrase pre-Emperor Palpetine) to regulate local commercial affairs under the IC clause. In that case, from an FDR-packed court (whose job, again, was simply to “make it legal), they ruled that *not* engaging in commerce, and that non-commerce *not* being interstate in nature, gave the feds the authority to regulate said non-commercial, non-interstate activity under the Interstate Commerce clause. How? Well, they decided that if you grow wheat on your own farm for your own personal use, you are not acting as a buyer in the interstate market for wheat … since you’re “rolling your own”. By not acting as a buyer but instead producing for yourself, you affect the price in the interstate market. Therefore you’re engaging in interstate commerce … even when you’re not. By that logic, by not engaging in drug manufacturing and trafficking, you’re engaging in drug manufacturing and trafficking since by not acting as a supplier, you are also affecting the price. This is the reason the feds can regulate *anything under the sun*, including now non-activity (thanks ACA ruling, which built upon this), under the “Interstate Commerce” clause.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn

  2. So they found all the un-sterilized lowers in August and went back TWO months later to seize them?

    • Either administrative incompetence or entrapment.
      Or, if Stag offered those excuses in August, there may have been a decent human being in that ATF windbraker willing to give them a chance to straighten things out. ….. wait…. someone slap me.

    • And in that amount of time they hadn’t gotten around to serialized them yet?

      Random question: if it doesn’t have a serial number, how can they prove it was manufactured more than 7 days ago? Seems like a pretty big loophole. “Yeah, we had a killer week last week, made about 4,000 lowers. Larry’s back from vacay, so he’ll get the engraving knocked out this afternoon.”

      • I was thinking the same thing. What evidence does the ATF have that Stag Arms manufactured those lowers more than 7 days before showing up to seize them?

        And if the ATF returned two months later to find 3,000 unserialized lowers sitting around, who’s to say that Stag Arms did or did not manufacture 3,000 lowers the previous two months, scrap them, and then produce 3,000 more lowers?

        • The ATF doesn’t need evidence. We should all know this by now. There are a few dead Americans that have learned that too late… Cough cough Waco cough Ruby Ridge cough cough I’m sure too many to list that we don’t know about yet.

        • I agree with the “chadwick.”

          The ATF doesn’t need evidence. They have a clear history of openly breaking the law themselves to achieve whatever goals they pursue.

      • See sir, like other manufacturers, we automatically serialize them as the final hole is drilled. That machine is broken, or the guy that runs it is away, so they aren’t completed or serialized. They are 99 percent lowers.

      • Yes. Must be a BIG problem if the jackbooted ones took months to address the “issue”

        And WTF were the thugs PRESENT in a lawful business????

        violate federal law Really that 7 day BS was written in the code by Congress? I doubt it (show the citation) or perhaps it’s just a BS ATF out of ass “rule”.

        Who to believe – ATF/”Justice and Holder Inc or anyone else?

      • This +1000 seriously no decent reason to serialize guns….. I sy we need to start requiring serialized stamps for public speech

      • Some manufacturers program their CNC machine(s) to load a fine, round-tipped tool to doodle a serial number and perhaps some clever design into one side of a finished AR Lower mag-well close to the final machining operations. (Ref: Anderson Mfg. / Anderson Rifles)

        If you’ve ever seen a Stag Arms Lower, both the huge “stag” deer head and the lettering are clearly *stamped* into the aluminum – likely by supporting the lower on something like a tight-fitting mandrel on the marking machine into the Lower mag well … and tripping the machine into action. Ka-CHUNG! One marked Lower …

        (Numerous times, I’ve seen “the unknowing” state the Stag lowers (and similar AR parts) are “roll marked” – but they’ve clearly never seen a “roll marking machine” in action or else they’d realize what a mis-application of this sort of marking and the configuration of the part being marked would be … Of course, I guess to “them”, everything is “roll marked”.)

        NOW … with any production-run of parts machined from a supplier “blank” – in this case, aluminum forgings purchased from an outside vendor – there are bound to be rejections for one reason or another. Hairline cracks, “voids” that can’t be removed in the machining processes, etc., etc. Those rejected parts – before final machining – can be returned to the forging vendor for credit. Once there is anything done past the “80% stage” (e.g. a “finished” AR Lower – whether “in the white” – or anodized) – IF SERIAL NUMBERED!!! – is now a “firearm” in the eyes of the BATF and all must be tightly controlled and accounted for. NO EXCEPTIONS!!! NO EXCUSES!!!

        After all, a genuinely defective part – a useless part – is dramatically different from, say, a “blem” or otherwise imperfect part – cosmetically – because one might be able to be re-worked / re-finished … but the bona-fide useless part must be tightly controlled by record-keeping and destroyed within a certain period of time. A finish-machined – but physically defective Lower – TECHNICALLY, NOW A “FIREARM” TO THE BATF! – cannot even be returned to the forging vendor!!!! That would constitute an “illegal transfer”.

        Replacing a serialized – but unusable !!! – “415259300” Lower with an acceptable “415259300” Lower replacement (if even done!) had better come with a damned good reason should the BATF come a-knock, knock, knocking’ and demand to audit someone’s books!

        Normally, these “physical defects” are simply skipped in the numerical sequencing and accounted for in production record-keeping. The manufacturer just needs to be perfectly crystal-clear that none written off as “defective” never, EVER saw the light of day outside of the manufacturer ….. Again, no exceptions, no excuses.

  3. Yup, that story is messed up on both sides, the factory and the ATF. Wow. We need this like a hole in the head.

    Hell yeah, maybe they somehow got the notion they were also exempt from chit, like Larry Klinton and his lovely wife Bruno, or Mr. and Mrs. Barry Soetero.

    Shoulda hired Field Marshal Rodham for their PR crises like this. She’s still a lawyer, ain’t she?

    • Zing!

      I wonder how well Hatden is adapting to ‘Protective Custody’…

      (Actually, I enjoy the Schadenfreude).

  4. Stag should have just shipped the lowers to Mexico and “lost” the emails. If the press says anything, just say “Benghazi!!!” and they won’t have any further questions.

    I find it extremely sad the the ATF punishes *others* for losing guns and not themselves.

  5. Paint me paranoid but this event seems like a nice setup for the next mass shooting with unserialized AR/s. The anti will be ALL OVER the 80% lowers.

  6. So the dude that stamps the serial numbers was on vacation, and they had no other personnel that could preform this vital function??
    What would they have done if this guy had got a serious STD and taken the “dirt nap” while on vacation??

  7. I don’t get why Stag got caught in August and the feds didn’t come back for the lowers until October and the lowers still weren’t serialized. Was the serial stamper guy still on vacation 2 months later?

    As much as I detest the ATF and how it does business, this one looks like Stag was terminally stupid.

  8. Trying to remember where in the 2nd amendment it says that there must be a number engraved on every firearm…

  9. “for an indeterminate amount of time”

    If this part of your commentary is true, then we don’t know if they were past the 7 day deadline… Thus, the ATF lacks proof for it’s assault.

    Even if it is not true…

    I’m curious how they can tell how long it’s been since the receiver popped out of the mill vise? Does aluminum go stale like bread? It is like estimating a time of death in forensics? [/sarc] If they have no uniquely identifying marks, how do they know the one they saw in Day X is the same one they saw on Day X+8? They don’t.

    “All of those were lost in a tragic boating accident. These are new ones.”

    [/sarc]

    Where does the burden of proof lie? Hm? If you can’t prove those were the same ones, because you can’t identify them and we all damn well know that’s the case…

    This seems to me like a case of “DON’T TALK TO THE COPS!” If they had shut their damn mouths, there’d be no real evidence…

    Only 3 of my AR15s have Serial Numbers. I don’t even like AR15s…

    The laws used have no legitimacy in the first place.

    • “Does aluminum go stale like bread?”
      Uh, yes it does, actually. Aluminum oxidizes rapidly, so it is likely possible to forensically determine whether the fresh-cut metal has been exposed to air for weeks, months, or days. More likely is that the ATF conducted an in depth audit of Stag’s business model and found that completed guns were thrown into a proverbial hopper to be serialized at some later indeterminate date, which is legally just as bad as not serializing them in time (depending on the charges that are or are not filed, the burden of proof can be lower than reasonable doubt). Stag was probably just too lazy to program serialization into their CNC, since that requires reprogramming of some sort before each run (which may not be able to be automated with their setup), and instead completed them in batches.

      NFA rules are BS, but they do appear to be in the wrong, here. I do have some vague curiosity of whether or not the guns were actually completed; were the FCG pockets milled out only, to be drilled up as a secondary operation, and Stag stupidly assumed their mid-process guns wouldn’t be subject to the ATF’s arbitrary threshold?

    • Actually, raw aluminum can oxidize if left out in the open. So, they take a receiver, scrape a little off the surface, and test AlO2. I assume these are raw, unanodized aluminum that have been left in a big pile marked “TO DO” next to an engraving machine, and not unserialized fully anodized lowers left in a hermetically sealed container.

  10. It might be a dumb law, but it’s still a law, and Stag was responsible for following it. It’s on them.

  11. Todays official question, DID THEY SELL ANY of the unserialized lowers? If they did then IMHO there are grounds, other than that the ATF could go pound sand. As for their excuse, lame comes to mind.

    • Read the whole article, the reporter pulled the search warrants and the answer is no. They simple going after paper work violations. Since they do work with another company called CMT, there is also a question if the lowers belong to Stag or CMT.

      • I thought Stag was a subsidiary of CMT, Continental Machine Tool. CMP makes lots of excellent parts for other companies. At least in the past it produced bolts/carriers for top tier AR manufacturers…though these relationships change frequently,

  12. Get your 80% quick I have 2 in a UPS TRUCK time to pop another $140 and I’d rather have an AK, p90 or UZI

    • Urban centers voted for it. And the 51% is vastly more important than the 49 – Until it backfires on them.

  13. ATF inspected in August, siezed the parts in October, and in May asked to keep them? God, don’t the wheels turn slow!

    I don’t have a lot of respect for people and businesses that don’t observe the rules. If you want to play the game it is in your best interest to play it right. There are very few places where this more important than the gun business.

    Dog ate my homework. 😐

    • I had a stag. But i lost it in a fishing accident. I brought it with me because its legal to open carry in florida while fishing. But i capsized the boat and down it went

  14. Oh well…dot your I’s and cross your you know. THIS seems fairly inept on Stags part(the ATF is just evil).

  15. Where’s the tin foil hat crowd saying the government contracted for 3000 untraceable weapons

    • The ATF needs them – for Operation Fast and Furious – Part two.

      Lon Horiuchi called up the ATF director and he has dibs on a couple as well.

    • Of course, a democrat would say that. Never heard of fast and furious bucko? Also, it wasn’t that long ago when stating that the NSA spies on all of us was being apart of the “tin foil hat crowd.” But now everyone is shockingly just OK with it. Even you supposed libturds who should be the most outraged by it.

  16. What arbitrary nonsense. Can’t take a piss these days with out committing 3 felonies and a federal offense. Hope this doesn’t ruin this excellent company who should have every right to conduct their buisness on their own property as they wish, without some nanny state libturds throwing them in prison for some pointless stamped numbers on an unfinished product. Maybe a good lawyer can demolish some of the ATFs royal decrees seeing as how the organization often just makes sh*t up as it goes along.

  17. Nick Leghorn is a fool, unwise, unpatriotic and a jackass. The government has no business even being involved.

    Pull your head out.

  18. So… Nick’s Article is blaming stag arms for non-compliance of totalitarian welfare state law?

    The idea that a major manufacturer would have thousands — thousands — of firearms just lying around the shop without a serial number for an indeterminate amount of time is mind-boggling.

    Where in the source article…Nick… Did it ever say firearms were “just lying around???” Source please???

    So it was a bit of a shock when word came that the ATF had seized 3,000 of their AR-15 rifle lower receivers over a legal compliance issue that’s usually covered in the first five minutes of any “Gun Industry 101″ class.

    So it’s amateur night at stag arms for not following some socialist/welfarist state rule? A better question would be: Was any stag arms receiver recovered anyplace … Anywhere … ever… That did not have a serial number – other than the manufacturer?? I didn’t think so.

    The complaint from the ATF ALLEGES that these thousands of lower receivers were just lying around the shop completely un-serialized, which is a huge mistake if true.

    They were “temporarily” unserialized. Every single one of them would eventually be serialized. Again, has any stag arms lower receiver – in the history of Stag Arms ever been shipped without a serial number … Ever??

    Stag’s answer to the ATF on that allegation doesn’t fill me with confidence . . .

    Your article doesn’t fill me with confidence.

    From the source article:

    The ATF investigation into Stag Arms is ongoing and the bureau declined to comment beyond the court filings, said ATF spokesman Chris Arone.

    Of course they would – because all of us hate their guts. The more they speak the less we all like them.

    From the source article:

    After the August inspection and October seizure, Stag Arms hadn’t heard from ATF on the investigation until the civil filing was made in May, asking for the permanent forfeiture of the [3000] guns.

    WTF is the ATF going to do with them??? Why not order them destroyed and the destruction witnessed by an ATF agent?? Unless the ATF is bringing a case against them they don’t need 3000 unserialized firearms. Even if they are what is the ATF going to do with 3000 unserialized firearms when they are finished??? Operation fast and furious (part two)??

    From the source article:

    The ATF returned to Stag in October to seize the gun parts, as well as documents, photos, and personnel records that could relate to any illegal activity at the New Britain company including unauthorized trafficking of guns, according to a search warrant filing made by ATF Special Agent Joanna Lambert.

    I would say stag arms adequately explained themselves (indicating they were in non-compliance). Just because they have unserialized receivers doesn’t mean anyone is trafficking them. Probable cause? Evidence? No? How about a fishing expedition courtesy of the ATF? What a laugh – I would say stag arms has a pristine record in regards to trafficking when compared against the ATF.

    From the source article:

    In August, Stag Arms claimed two separate reasons for the missing serial numbers: the employee who normally engraves the numbers was on vacation, and the unserialized gun parts were sometimes used as replacements for ones that came off the line broken, according to documents filed by the U.S. Attorney for Connecticut. Either way, both reasons given by Stag Arms would violate federal law, the U.S. Attorney wrote, because all gun parts must be stamped with serial numbers within seven days of their manufacture.

    Burned by the honest answer. These are common manufacturing processes which non-firearms manufacturers frequently use which they apparently shouldn’t be using by law. Lets confiscate and litigate to orgasmic levels over the basis of small technicalities of timing and record keeping. Textbook ATF guys.

    From the source article:

    Lambert said Stag and CMT have a history of violations, and she suspected the companies were engaging in ongoing illegal activity. She did not mention what the previous violations were.
    Nothing in the ATF or U.S. Attorney court filings indicated any evidence was found of illegal gun sales, although neither agency would discuss that allegation with Hartford Business Journal.

    A history of Harrassment? Or a history of violations? Unmentionable violations? Right?
    They didn’t share any evidence because they likely don’t have any evidence. They are hoping to obtain some after the upcoming fishing expedition.

    Here’s what I get out of this. Gun manufacturer in CONNECTICUT who makes AR15 BLACK RIFLES gets HARASSED by the ATF on small technicalities. Hmm.

    From the source article:

    Stag Arms is owned by Mark Malkowski, who was a vocal advocate for the gunmaking industry when the state legislature and Gov. Dannel P. Malloy sought to pass tougher gun control laws in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting.

    The only thing this article achieved is made me detest the ATF more than I already do (a fairly difficult task) and encourage me to purchase STAG arms products over Wilson Combat products.

  19. So… Nick’s Article is blaming stag arms for non-compliance of totalitarian welfare state law?

    The idea that a major manufacturer would have thousands — thousands — of firearms just lying around the shop without a serial number for an indeterminate amount of time is mind-boggling.

    Where in the source article…Nick… Did it ever say unserialized firearms were “just lying around???” Source please???

    So it was a bit of a shock when word came that the ATF had seized 3,000 of their AR-15 rifle lower receivers over a legal compliance issue that’s usually covered in the first five minutes of any “Gun Industry 101″ class.

    So it’s amateur night at stag arms for not following some socialist/welfarist state rule? A better question would be: Was any stag arms receiver recovered anyplace … Anywhere … ever… That did not have a serial number – other than the manufacturer?? I didn’t think so.

    The complaint from the ATF ALLEGES that these thousands of lower receivers were just lying around the shop completely un-serialized, which is a huge mistake if true.

    They were “temporarily” unserialized. Every single one of them would eventually be serialized. Again, has any stag arms lower receiver – in the history of Stag Arms ever been shipped without a serial number … Ever??

    Stag’s answer to the ATF on that allegation doesn’t fill me with confidence . . .

    Your article doesn’t fill me with confidence.

    • Precisely. Also, no mention of how the ATF is breaking the law. A lot of people forget the constitution is not just a set of guidelines, it’s federal law. When the government violates the 2A, it’s breaking federal law, and should be treated as such.

  20. From the source article:

    The ATF investigation into Stag Arms is ongoing and the bureau declined to comment beyond the court filings, said ATF spokesman Chris Arone.

    Of course they would – because all of us hate their guts. The more they speak the less we all like them.

    From the source article:

    After the August inspection and October seizure, Stag Arms hadn’t heard from ATF on the investigation until the civil filing was made in May, asking for the permanent forfeiture of the [3000] guns.

    WTF is the ATF going to do with them??? Why not order them destroyed and the destruction witnessed by an ATF agent?? Unless the ATF is bringing a case against them they don’t need 3000 unserialized firearms. Even if they are what is the ATF going to do with 3000 unserialized firearms when they are finished??? Operation fast and furious (part two)??

    From the source article:

    The ATF returned to Stag in October to seize the gun parts, as well as documents, photos, and personnel records that could relate to any illegal activity at the New Britain company including unauthorized trafficking of guns, according to a search warrant filing made by ATF Special Agent Joanna Lambert.

    I would say stag arms adequately explained themselves (indicating they were in non-compliance). Just because they have unserialized receivers doesn’t mean anyone is trafficking them. Probable cause? Evidence? No? How about a fishing expedition courtesy of the ATF? What a laugh – I would say stag arms has a pristine record in regards to trafficking when compared against the ATF.

  21. From the source article:

    In August, Stag Arms claimed two separate reasons for the missing serial numbers: the employee who normally engraves the numbers was on vacation, and the unserialized gun parts were sometimes used as replacements for ones that came off the line broken, according to documents filed by the U.S. Attorney for Connecticut. Either way, both reasons given by Stag Arms would violate federal law, the U.S. Attorney wrote, because all gun parts must be stamped with serial numbers within seven days of their manufacture.

    Burned by the honest answer. These are common manufacturing processes which non-firearms manufacturers frequently use which they apparently shouldn’t be using by law. Lets confiscate and litigate to org@smic levels over the basis of small technicalities of timing and record keeping. Textbook ATF guys.

    From the source article:

    Lambert said Stag and CMT have a history of violations, and she suspected the companies were engaging in ongoing illegal activity. She did not mention what the previous violations were.
    Nothing in the ATF or U.S. Attorney court filings indicated any evidence was found of illegal gun sales, although neither agency would discuss that allegation with Hartford Business Journal.

    A history of Harassment? Or a history of violations? Unmentionable violations? Right?
    They didn’t share any evidence because they likely don’t have any evidence. They are hoping to obtain some after the upcoming fishing expedition.

    Here’s what I get out of this. Gun manufacturer in CONNECTICUT who makes AR15 BLACK RIFLES gets HARASSED by the ATF on small technicalities. Hmm.

    From the source article:

    Stag Arms is owned by Mark Malkowski, who was a vocal advocate for the gunmaking industry when the state legislature and Gov. Dannel P. Malloy sought to pass tougher gun control laws in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting.

    The only thing this article achieved is made me detest the ATF more than I already do (a fairly difficult task) and encourage me to purchase STAG arms products over Wilson Combat products.

  22. I’m not a gambling man, but in this case I’d bet that a good portion of those un-serialized lowers are going to end up in the hands of Washington’s flavor-of-the-month “freedom fighters” somewhere in Southwest Asia.

      • The news report on yahoo quoted the government puke saying the components would be seized and used for the benefit of the federal government.

        I bet those “ghost” guns will end up in a war-zone near you…

  23. It would seem that Stag Arms is in violation of a bureaucratic edict created to impose a burden on
    manufacturers and give BATFEces leverage over companies. I have no doubt there is NO LAW
    anywhere that was actually voted on by an elected body requiring a manufacturer to serialize every
    receiver the moment it is finished nor is there a law voted on again BY ELECTED OFFICIALS that
    bars a company from storing such items unserialized. This is just bureaucratic legalese imposed by
    apparatchiks and used to harass and abuse.

  24. Just out of curiosity: has firearm serialization demonstrated any actual furthering of any compelling government interest, not furthered by some other, less-infringing means?

    And why aren’t baseball bats and hammers required to be serialized?

    • Um…YEAH! It’s the closest thing they have to gun registration right now, which would be, like, ya know, the most wonderful thing EVER! Duh.

  25. In December of 2015, telling your pals at the Fish and Game club that you’re “going stag” at the holiday party will surely make them look at you differently…

  26. So why did it take from August until October to seize the firearms if they were in clear violation?

    If the ATF could go, observer a violation, then wait 2 months to act on it surely that violation does not pose a serious threat to public safety….

  27. ATF baby incinerators at work, doesn’t that make your heart go Pitter Patter thump!
    Having a number on the gun is kind of pointless, the whole thing boils down to the Money government receives from recording those numbers, taxes on firearms sort of like Moonshine, Less numbers less money!
    Ever think they were the so called 80%
    Government make more money from Health care no that they have messed it up, IRS Denies rights for Money!
    Maybe it’s a drop gun matter, ATF makes up phony Receivers the says they found them {in trunk of their Car} Just saying!

  28. I knew stag had some of the worst ARs out there, but I had no idea they were such a poor run business. In the end I hate to see the ATF interfere with ANYTHING, but at least it was stag and not a business that’s up to snuff.

  29. You’d be surprised how much is screwed up on a day to day basis because “the single point of failure in my company is on vacation”. But no excuse, there shouldn’t ever be a single point of failure in the first place!

    -D

  30. You would definitely assume that Stag Arms knows better than to conduct themselves like this and their answers don’t make sense. It makes me wonder if they weren’t blackmailed into providing untraceable components for Fast & Furious part deux…

  31. Too many posters have missed the point. OF COURSE we all disagree with the state of the law, and on that, everyone is just preaching to the choir. Nick’s article only asks the question: OK, accepting the laws may suck, and that all of us hate jackbooted thuggery, just how dumb does a major AR business have to be to do this, IF it’s true? Why kick the bear, when you want to stay in business, and this problem is so easy to avoid? As a huge Stag fan and owner of 2 of their rifles, I sure hope that this isn’t a prelude to what happened to Sabre, which the ATF essentially shut down for good. Hopefully, they can document that all the lowers manufactured were either destroyed if defective, or present and accounted for. Incompetent and dumb beats intentional and willful, as Nick correctly noted, in any Gov’t agency’s eyes, because the latter raises the specter of doing something, like, you know, Eric Holder did.

  32. As i understand, an individual is allowed to manufacture unserialized firearms for *personal* use, only. Stag, being a corporation, is no longer an *individual*… Is this the “guiding light” that BATFE is following?

    • But could recent supreme court ruling that corporations are people be possible to twist such that this is now resonably legal

  33. “The process is the punishment.”

    Anyone who’s dealt with arbitrary authoritah, wielded by arbitrary authoritarians – excuse, me, “authoritah-ians” – has seen this. Here’s what you do…

    – First know the rules in principle and in practice.
    – Second, do things better than the either set of require.
    – Third, when they come, give them exactly what they ask for … and nothing more.

    It’s like none of these people in the gun biz have ever dealt with an essentially hostile regulatory bureaucracy, and “regulatory bureaucracies” are generally essentially hostile.

    Were I in the gun business, which I am not, my notional plan would include electronic record capture of every damn thing directly off the operation. For example, NC machines are essentially computers with tungsten cutters. The things babble to itself as it works. Pick the right sense points and capture that.

  34. I hope Stag figures it out, I have a couple of their lowers and parts kits and they are of high quality.

    I suspect and this is just me guessing wildly in the dark that these are left over from the massive production run when CT banned AR15’s and have been sitting around the shop for awhile looking for a buyer.

  35. I can only speculate as to why they weren’t serialized in those 2 months except for the feds could hit them with tampering with evidence charges. Maybe their lawyers told them to do nothing to them, for fear of making a bad situation worse.

  36. I am personally opposed to firearm registration of any kind. I am not opposed to an inquiry to establish a person is warrantless, without violation, or suffering any incapacity that would prohibit a reasonable person from placing a firearm into their possession. However, once the solicitation has been made of the powers that be (is this person deemed legally competent to purchase a firearm) and the person be found faultless, that should be the end of it. Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing should be further forwarded to any enforcement agency of any kind, that a firearm was or was not purchased.
    Once a person has been declared competent, the interrogation ends. It ends as to the type of firearm, and it ends as to the serialization of the firearm. That only needs to remain with the manufacturer, the seller, and the purchaser, and no one else. If the weapon is stolen or for any reason becomes out of control of the owner, it would be both wise and appropriate to be reported then, and not necessarily at any other time.
    It must be left to be a personal choice.
    That is what it means to be free.
    Until that time the manufacturer would know of the existence of the firearm, the seller would be knowledgeable, and the purchaser would have information in his possession identifying the product as his own, and no one else needs to know.
    That is certainly one reason Warrants exist as a device of law enforcement and the courts. If it is determined a firearm has been used in the commission of a crime, then and only then should its origins be investigated and a trail would exist.
    At no other time is this information necessary. We have got to come back to the Constitutionally recognized “presumption of innocence.” You do not make law abiding persons criminal because of what they might do. A person is not criminal because he has the ability to be a lawbreaker. He is only becomes criminal when he breaks the law.
    A firearm is property and nothing more. It may have the potential of being a “deadly” property, however, if the enforcement organizations, our judges, and our courts would stop punishing law abiding persons and instead perform their legitimate functions, we all would be better off.
    Laws reach to actions only and not anything else that may either be anticipated or feared, and indeed, if fear is to be the qualifier for proceeding in an antagonistic limitation of our natural rights, then lets stop this nonsense of legalizing drugs, allowing the sale of alcohol, and the manufacture of planes, trains, and automobiles all which are known to have had devastating consequences for innumerable lives.
    My personal opinion is the BATF is a criminal organization. It is staffed with motivated persons operating under the guise of legitimacy and when the authorizing agents of the highest level of the organization say the word, the “minions” will fall compliantly in line. They will abuse the average citizen who has no opportunity or capacity to resist, and as has been demonstrated in the past use excessive force to kill them with impunity.
    The right to bear arms is a natural right and not one artificially contrived. Along with the right to bear, exists the right to manufacture in a manner such as the manufacturer deems appropriate and necessary for the operation of his business.
    Stag Arms should have all the lowers returned immediately. They are Stag Arms personal property.
    There is time enough for the use of them to become criminal.

    • well said patriot! “…. and instead perform their
      legitimate functions, …”

      WE’VE allowed them to reach far and wide as our founding fathers warned us to not do… the patriots back in ’38 stood down instead of standing uP and against that pesky unconstitutional act!

  37. This does not surprise me. In my business dealings with Stag, they proved to be unethical and I refuse to sell any of their equipment because of that. At time’s I thought the two instances of bad dealings with them may have been a fluke. Now I know that it was SOP.

  38. Oh no, how will the government use those numbers for their illegally kept registration database (that totally doesn’t exist cause the government never breaks the law) if Stag doesn’t stamp them in a timely manner?

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *